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Dial-in number: 1-712-770-8055, Conference Code: 983459

Monthly MtgsJuly 14 – Phone,
August 11 – San Diego, September 15 – Berkeley, October 6 – West Sacramento, October 20 – Los Angeles [details]

General News

Survey – International Travel after IML

If you have traveled to a foreign country after President Obama signed HR 515 / International Megan’s Law into law on February 8, 2016, please complete this survey to help gather details about the effects of this legislation. We will also share this data with the RTAG group for incorporation into their travel matrix. Thank you.

Go to International Travel Survey

Join the discussion

  1. TONY

    PK do you know if there are doing this to deregister sex offender?

  2. Chicago guy

    Here is a link to a list of countries that has all the relevant information…I believe they update it every so often but im not quite sure…so take a look if u are looking to travel..and maybe the sight here should put up a chart of their own

    http://restoringintegritytovirginiaregistry.blogspot.com/2016/06/what-countries-are-turning-away.html?m=1

  3. PK

    This most current Survey for International Travel after IML-
    It is worth posting the @TS’s research regarding how they are revoking Passports as we know it today:

    Three ways they are revoking passports:
    1) after return home through a Certified Letter,
    2) on the way traveling out of the country, or
    3) on return to country, and going through CBP secondary inspection

  4. PK

    Regarding the Passport Endorsement on the last page.
    I think the issue was discussed before, but I wanted to re-hash it to find out more thoughts about it.

    Does everyone think that the little statement on the last page of the Passport is that noticeable and would it be a real deterrence from entering into a Country?

    I’m not so sure, especially a Latin American Country who probably wouldn’t have any experience to look for this statement in the first place.

    • Need to Kno

      PK – I would tend to agree with this. I think the bigger issue is: 1) having it revoked and impacting travel, and 2) the notifications to the other countries. Those to me are the biggest obstacles.

      • JoshB

        @Need
        I can get around the Notification part.

        @Political
        “When there is an endorsement on the back page there is a note stating that at the bottom of the first page stating ‘see page 27′”

        Considering that the special endorsement for covered RSO’s is the first time something like that has been printed on page 27, I’m wondering how many Immigration Agents in the various countries actually pay attention to that?

        • AJ

          @JoshB:
          Considering that the special endorsement for covered RSO’s is the first time something like that has been printed on page 27, I’m wondering how many Immigration Agents in the various countries actually pay attention to that?
          —–
          Not true. I know someone who got re-married and instead of getting a new passport, got an endorsement stating the name change. I don’t know/recall if there was anything in the front saying, “see page 27,” but it would make sense. Otherwise, she would have to show it to the border agents herself to explain why the name isn’t what is “should” be.

          I also suspect the Foreign Affairs Manual State mentions (and provided?) in its Motion for Dismissal probably lists all sorts of Endorsements State has at its disposal.

    • Political Prisoner

      When there is an endorsement on the back page there is a note stating that at the bottom of the first page.

    • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

      It depends. Some countries’ immigration officers, as you know, leaf through each and every page, scrutinizing everything. Others, such as the Dutch, seeing an American passport just open it to the first page and glance up to see if it’s the same face as the person standing before them. Regardless, I think the database, where our records dwell continuously and not just on a per-trip notification basis, is still a bigger deal than the passport. Who needs the big passport reveal when they can learn all about you on their screen as soon as they scan your passport? They get the dirt on you served-up on a silver platter. What could be worse? Which is why I’m very disappointed that our legal challenge is, at least for the time being, limited only to the passport.

  5. PS

    Seriously? If I have to trek through the jungle of Central and South America, I WILL get to where I want to be. I will remain silent about the actual country that I’m planning on retiring to. But come hell or high water, some POS statement on page 27 of the Passport is NOT going to stop me. I WILL NOT be a prisoner of the United States. This is utter BS for some POS misdemeanor.

  6. Cguy

    Has anyone tried to changed there name?

  7. David

    @ PK: I am thinking the same thing – I am hoping that the lawsuit will produce an injunction so DOS will be forced to stop revoking Registrants’ passports.

    • PK

      Let’s hope it comes sooner rather than later.

      If it doesn’t I would simply have to bite the bullet and face the consequences of returning. I will be alright for a while, but wouldn’t be able to stay away forever.

  8. TR

    Has the lawsuit against the IML been dismissed or is it still going on and still in stand?

    • David

      @ TR: There was an initial lawsuit filed against IML soon after it became law. Unfortunately, that first lawsuit was dismissed by the judge who believed the plaintiffs had “no standing” because they had not yet suffered any “injuries”. However, there is currently an active second lawsuit against IML and I believe the next court date for that lawsuit is June 25th in Los Angeles Federal Court.

      • John

        I was wanting to find any case that was filed where the US notified another country with lies..

        For me i was Blacklisted in the Philipians in 2014 under a false claim i was a “Convicted sex offender” i am not and i later found out that it was submitted by people i was invesitigaing for a the murder of my GF in USA

        I am American and i want to sue who ever sent that and got me blocked

        I hired lawyers in PPI and that failed.. the BI does not care once they think your bad they do not do anyting..

        Any thoughts on how i can sue them ??

    • E

      Hearing on the IML suit is scheduled for June 25. That’s after the ACSOL conference unfortunately. Would have been nice to know how that hearing goes before discussions at the conference about next steps.

      Wondering about a pro se suit since I got my revocation letter. I’d want to go beyond the identifier.

      • PK

        Hi E,
        I was wondering about the certified letter you received. Could you share as to whether or not this letter was adressed to you?

        In other words, sometimes anyone in the house can sign for a certified letter, even if the letter isn’t for them.

        I like in a shared house environment when I’m in the U.S. and I would hate for this letter to end up in the wrong hands.

      • PK

        Hi E,
        I was wondering about the certified letter you received. Could you share as to whether or not this letter the piece of paper you signed had your name on it.

        In other words, sometimes anyone in the house can sign for a certified letter, even if the letter isn’t for them.

        I live in a shared house environment when I’m in the U.S. and I would hate for this letter to end up in the wrong hands.

        • Lake County

          A certified letter and the form will always have your name on it, but usually anyone in the residence or on a PO Box can sign for it. They certainly wont address it to recipient. That is usually good enough for proof of delivery for government as it is also a federal crime for anyone else to open it. They can pay extra for the named recipient only to sign for it, but I doubt they would do that. Would anyone in your house normally open your mail? If not, I wouldn’t worry about it. And a return address from the U.S Passport Office shouldn’t suspicious to anyone.

        • E

          It was addressed to me by name. Return address was US State Department in official 9×12 brown envelope.

          Inside the letter was addressed to me by name with a business style name/address block at the top. But the DATE was STAMPED in the top
          right corner. It was NOT printed as part of the letter. Interesting?? Maybe they printed 850,000 of these letters (LOL) but hand stamp the date when they actually send it?? 🙂

          Btw my letter was identical to the one linked to at some point earlier this month on this blog.

        • PK

          @E

          So the actual small paper you signed DID NOT have your name on it correct?

          I’ve received Certified Letters in the past from the DMV that didn’t show any name.
          They kind of trick a person like that into signing something.

        • PK

          @E
          Perhaps it was the date that it was actually revoked.

          The actual letter had your name and address which would negate the possibility that these letter were pre-printed.

        • TS

          @PK

          A stamped date would make sense from an effective “in the system” revocation date after the printed letter with the name and address of the person has been worked through the system to revoke it electronically first before mailing. That process is common in all levels of government processing.

        • Lake County

          The notice you get for the registered mail will often not have the senders name on it, it often only has the senders zip code only on it. But I’ve never received a registered mail notice that did not have my name on it. Regardless, the piece of mail will have your name on it.

  9. robert

    If we have the new passports with the endorsement will we be able to go to the countries that dont have a ban on RSO’s? JUst wondering????

    • PK

      Who knows, it hasn’t been tested.

      The only way to really find out is to go spend a bunch of money for a plane ticket, then see if they let you in. Most probably will initially until they start to notice the endorsement.

    • JM of Wi.

      A friend of mine flew into Amsterdam with the “endorsement” with no issues.

      • PK

        @Jm

        I’m guessing that he also gave the 21 day advanced notice?

        • JM of Wi.

          Most definitely. He gave the 21 day notice 2.5 months in advance. Got paperwork from DOC stating they received it and forwarded to whoever they forward to.

  10. David

    If the lawsuit is successful in getting an injunction, I think the best answer to getting a brand new passport issued to you without the unique identifier is: Why not? It’s worth a shot. 👍🤞

  11. JM of Wi.

    Just a follow-up to my travel posts this month- returned from Netherlands early May, received my revocation of passport 5-21 ish approx 2 weeks later.
    I will wait a few months to reapply.

  12. Counting the days

    Update:

    My German passport will be issued as soon as my reduction is granted. Probably 3 months or so. My immigration attorney feels that submitting paperwork with felony creates unneeded scrutiny. Then I am gone. As a German citizen, she says I don’t have an obligation to inform ICE of my travels. I have to let California know of my residency change and that’s all. I can fly directly to Thailand and have family meet me @ airport. I will send a ” hello all” when free.

    • AJ

      @Counting the Days:
      As a German citizen, she says I don’t have an obligation to inform ICE of my travels.
      —–
      I hope she’s a sharp immigration attorney who understands dual citizenship. It would seem to me that until/unless you renounce your U.S. citizenship, you’re still required to comply with all U.S. federal laws (read: IML, SORNA…and paying taxes) imposed on its citizens, regardless what passport you carry. I absolutely have less knowledge on the matter than *any* attorney, but with RC crap, extreme caution is warranted.

  13. PK

    Im curious about one thing.

    Has anyone who has returned from international travel,,, NOT received a revocation letter from the State Dept?

    • Alec

      I’m curious about this too.

      So my situation is slightly unusual. I am not nor was I ever required to register on any registry in the United States, although i am a US Citizen. This is because I was never present in the US post-conviction (for something I didn’t do I might add, but that is another story). The Supreme Court has also already ruled that if you are outside the country, you are also not required to register. This means that clause 2 of the passport requirement does not apply in my case.

      However, this gives me no confidence that my passport won’t be revoked. I have managed to make a life for myself outside the US, and I would like to keep it that way. I really wish I knew if I could travel safely into the US, for example for business. I am tired of making excuses to my clients.

      • You are listed in Florida for LIFE!

        Since you have managed to escape the virtual prison of the USA DO NOT RETURN!

        If you return you will be allowed in as if you left yesterday however, once you get on a plane and try to enter another country (even the one you have lived in long term) they will probably send you back after receiving the GREEN NOTICE which will proceed your landing in the country of destination.

        Don’t risk it! I did and I am not stuck here in the U-S-A!

        • PK

          I don’t see how one could be stuck in the U.S.A forever with no escape.

          Ever hear of yachts and fishing boats? When there is a will- there is a way!

    • Janice Bellucci

      @PK – Very few people who travel overseas have had their passports revoked. It is the exception not the rule.

      • TONY

        @Janice Bellucci
        so what you are saying is that the exception is that only people that are consider cover sex offenders are getting passports revoked or I’m wrong found this

        §212b. Unique passport identifiers for covered sex offenders
        (a) In general
        Immediately after receiving a written determination from the Angel Watch Center that an individual is a covered sex offender, through the process developed for that purpose under section 21507 of title 34, the Secretary of State shall take appropriate action under subsection (b).

        (b) Authority to use unique passport identifiers
        (1) In general
        Except as provided under paragraph (2), the Secretary of State shall not issue a passport to a covered sex offender unless the passport contains a unique identifier, and may revoke a passport previously issued without such an identifier of a covered sex offender.

      • Major Henderson

        I received the revocation after being sent to the 3rd level of security when returning from Europe in April.

        • Need to Know

          @Major Henderson – what is the “3rd level of security?”

          All – would be great to find out if anyone in the forum has traveled international, given the 21 days, and has NOT received the revocation letter.

        • Major Henderson

          By 3rd level, I mean 1. The first place they check your passport, 2. Send you to secondary screening because your name is on the sex offender registry, 3. Send to have your luggage inspected. There the person asked if I knew why I was being selected for additional security. I told her that I knew it was because I was a registered sex offender. She said I could expect to always be selected for additional screening due to that fact. She entered some information into the computer and I assume that is when they forwarded it to Angel Watch.

        • AJ

          There the person asked if I knew why I was being selected for additional security.
          —–
          “Since I’m a free citizen, not carrying any contraband or undeclared goods, and who has completed any and all debts to society, no. Do you have a different perspective, Agent?”

        • TS

          Bravo, @AJ, Bravo

          Have to remember that one

      • CR

        Janice, how do you know this? Are statistics available for the number of travelers subject to IML who have returned from international travel without having their passports revoked versus those who have? Is there any knowledge or speculation about the criteria used by the State Department to decide which passports to revoke?

        • PK

          @CR

          There should be a Matrix for this also don’t you think?

          I’ve mentioned it before, but I really think Links to the RTAG Matrix and possibly a new Revocation Matrix should be prominently displayed in the Menu Section of this Website.

      • PK

        @Janice
        Thanks Janice. I’ll be able to roll with it in whatever happens, that’s IF AND WHEN I decide to return.

      • R M

        Janice, you say “Very few people who travel overseas have had their passports revoked. It is the exception not the rule.”

        Very few of what people? All people who travel overseas? All people committed of a sex offense?
        All people who committed a “covered” offense?

        Your statement is not well defined as I KNOW you are capable of doing Janice.

    • TS

      @PK, et al

      It could be hard to quantify those covered RCs who have traveled overseas that have had their passports revoked vs not, but not impossible using the questions @CR mentioned if someone was to do the research.

      IMO, I truly doubt Dept of State or anyone knows how many applicably covered RCs by USC are passport holders and have received reissued stamped passports VS those who are eligible for them only to be revoked VS those who are eligible, traveled, and got through the system w/o revocation. Not saying an algorithm could not be created to do the search and get some numbers, but who is going to do that without funding and a need to know?

      • PK

        @TS

        I don’t think they would need some special algorithm to determine whose passport has been revoked.

        My guess it’s probably less than 50. A simple database search based on selected filters regarding revocation for Sex Offenders who traveled, could easily be run to produce an actual number. Obviously the State Department wouldn’t disclose this.

        The people who have not had their passport revoked would be more difficult to determine.

        I was just wondering if anyone who participates in This Group has returned from international travel and has not received a revocation letter from the State Department.

        • Major Henderson

          I don’t think you will be able to get ANY information from the State Department. I called several times and got transferred to several different departments as I was attempting to find out how to apply for a new passport WITH the endorsement on it. Absolutely no one I spoke to even knew about the revocation, much less how to reapply. I was referred to Homeland Security and was told by them that they have nothing to do with passports. (obviously not true, as they are the ones that sex offenders are always sent to at the airport.) I’m guessing that there is a tightknit group of Angel Watch/State Department people that are working together to revoke our passports.

    • Warren

      Took a trip to Tahiti and been back for over an month and no revocation letter(Yet)! I travel 2-3 times a year International with family. I’m have a single 288(a) and live in CA so was expecting one this time. Did give the 21 day notice and had no problems in Tahiti and nearby Islands. We spent a month there. When we came back to Los Angeles, customs was a breeze, no secondary. Customs only had one question and asked it three times. Do you plan on taking a trip that long again? First told him maybe, then said don’t know and when he asked a third time I looked at my wife like what’s going on and she mouthed no to me and then I repeated that to customs officer and he said your free to go.

      I usually get pulled over for secondary so that was a surprise. I never had my bags or electronics searched in all trips international over the years. Plan on traveling to the Caribbean later this year and Europe next year. Safe travels.

      • Tuna

        has always bugged me when i read reports about them asking questions like this esp. since whatever answer you give has zero relevance to your admissability as a US Citizen which is all they should be concerning themselves with.

      • PK

        @Warren

        “I’m have a single 288(a) and live in CA so was expecting one this time.”
        Could you translate this for the rest of us who don’t live in California?

        You would be the only person that I know of:
        Who is- An RSO returned from an international trip, and DID NOT receive a passport revocation letter from the State Department.

      • James

        Dear Warren:

        Thanks a lot…it is good to know that Tahiti and I suppose related French islands are open to us….this also would tend to support the very vague report that Martinique in the Caribbean might also be a friendly stop.

        I am glad to see people still traveling…personally, I have put off/canceled and told people that I would not be there in S. France, N. Spain in June…and will also probably cancel Eastern Europe for August. There are always good reasons not to travel…busy and work and life and whatnot…so it is very good to see people out there doing things regardless of constraints…

        Kudos to you and thanks for the report.

        You are a good man, Sir.

        Best Wishes, James

  14. JoshB

    Passport Revocation- what does it mean really?

    When some RSO receives his Passport Revocation Letter in the mail from the State Department, what is the significance?

    My understanding is that the Revocation Letter indicates that the passport has been revoked.

    Does this mean, that if one were to try to use this passport in any of the 195 Countries in the entire world, that their system is automatically connected to the United States Passport System, which indicates that the passport is now revoked?
    Or do you think the passport could still be used to get into that country (barring any notification from CBP) ?

    Most certainly, upon any return to the United States they would grab that passport from your hand and it would never be seen again.

    • E

      While we don’t go through a physical passport control in the US when leaving the country, all passports ARE checked electronically through the airlines before departure. If you’re planning on flying to said country, the airline will Likely flag the passport as invalid. If you’re going by rubber dinghy you might be ok!!

      • PK

        I would choose the 2nd option. Looks like I won’t be able to use the 350K miles I’ve accumulated.

        • TS

          @PK

          I would gladly relieve you of those then if you are unable to use them. Can’t have them going to waste. 😉

  15. CR

    @Major Henderson, “Absolutely no one I spoke to even knew about the revocation, much less how to reapply.”

    ——-

    Sorry about this reply being out of line, but I am replying to the Major’s post above with the statement that I quoted.

    ——-

    All you should have to do is apply for a new passport. You’re already in the system and they know why they revoked your passport, so the State Department should send you a marked one without you needing to do or say anything special.

    If you aren’t planning international travel in the near future, you might consider holding off before applying for a new passport. If Janice or others win on an IML challenge, you may never have to suffer the ignominy of being issued and having to present to someone a scarlet letter passport.

    • Major Henderson

      That’s just it. They said that they did not see in the system that my passport had been revoked. Anyway, what I did was send a copy of the State Dept. letter with my new application.
      I do have a trip already booked for September, so I needed to get a valid passport.
      Re: challenge. If someone in California gets the court to say the new law is not valid, does that apply for all of the US states? Plus, I’m sure that if a lower court overruled the law, it would be appealed to a higher court.
      These people are out for blood.

      • CR

        “If someone in California gets the court to say the new law is not valid, does that apply for all of the US states?”

        I’m not a lawyer, but in general, and as I understand it, the answer to that question as it pertains to a lower court decision, whether state or federal, is no. It usually only applies to the parties in the case. It might be “as applied”, in which case it is has very narrow applicability. A class action applies to a class of people. Whether it is a civil or criminal case may make a difference, too.

        Often, lower court decisions on major questions of law are appealed by the losing side. An appeals court decision may have broader scope, at least in federal court. When it comes to contested federal constitutional issues, it may ultimately have to be settled by SCOTUS.

        The process can take years, sometimes decades.

        In the case of IML, challenges will be filed in a federal court, appealed to a US Circuit Court of Appeals, and then maybe taken up by SCOTUS.

        A denial of cert by SCOTUS does not set a precedent or speak to the merits of the case. Only when SCOTUS grants cert and renders an opinion will there be a ruling that affects everyone in the US.

        • David

          ACSOL’s current challenge to the IML passport law has been filed in the federal court system (not the California State system). Therefore, if ACSOL wins an injunction ordering the State Department to stop issuing those uniquely identified passports, then that injunctive relief would apply to passports throughout the U.S.

        • CR

          @David, I don’t think that is always true. In fact, I think it is usually not the case. I believe that universal or nationwide injunctions are uncommon, although they do seem to be on the increase in recent years. It is more common for an injunction against the government to apply only to the parties in the case.

          A win for petitioners in one court will set the ball rolling for wins in other federal districts, and that will escalate to appeals in one or more Courts of Appeals around the country. If different Courts of Appeals reach different conclusions on a matter of law, it sets the stage for a possible SCOTUS showdown. At least, a split among Circuits increases the odds that SCOTUS will grant cert to a case to settle the question for all.

          http://www.scotusblog.com/2018/02/academic-highlight-debate-nationwide-injunctions/
          https://harvardlawreview.org/2017/12/nationwide-injunctions-nationwide-harm/
          https://www.lawfareblog.com/nationwide-injunctions-and-lower-federal-courts

        • CR

          @David, that is not usually the case. Universal injunctions are the exception, not the rule.

  16. David

    Phone & Electronic Device Searches:

    If you are interested in the topic of Border Control Officers conducting searches on cell phones and electronic devices, you may wish to follow the two legal challenges of Kolsuz and of Alasaad. Please note that Courts are beginning to rule that some searches require “Individualized Suspicion”.

    “Courts Continue to Grapple with Border Searches of Electronic Devices: Fourth Circuit Rules Forensic Searches Require Individualized Suspicion” https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=63a09278-4f6f-42bf-a554-7779ea37387b

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/05/victory-alasaad-our-digital-privacy-border

    (Many of you may recall that it was not long ago that Janice won a case against California Department of Probation. The Court ruled that Probations could only use “blanket restrictions” against all sex offense probationers, they could only use “individualized restrictions”.)

  17. CR

    @David, I don’t think that is always true. In fact, I think it is usually not the case. I believe that universal or nationwide injunctions are uncommon, although they do seem to be on the increase in recent years. It is more common for an injunction against the government to apply only to the parties in the case.

    A win for petitioners in one court will set the ball rolling for wins in other federal districts, and that will escalate to appeals in one or more Courts of Appeals around the country. If different Courts of Appeals reach different conclusions on a matter of law, it sets the stage for a possible SCOTUS showdown. At least, a split among Circuits increases the odds that SCOTUS will grant cert to a case to settle the question for all.

    http://www.scotusblog.com/2018/02/academic-highlight-debate-nationwide-injunctions/
    https://harvardlawreview.org/2017/12/nationwide-injunctions-nationwide-harm/
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/nationwide-injunctions-and-lower-federal-courts

  18. T

    Have we heard of anyone has traveled on the new passport? I’m wondering if anything has changed as far as being more heavily scrutinized or plain refused entry.

    I’ve had good luck going to Hong Kong but am afraid the new passport may create issues. I was also thinking of going to Malaysia next visit as Hong Kong can get pretty expensive.

  19. Civil rights first

    Where does the current challenge to IML stand?

  20. AD from MN

    Countdown to Europe…

    We leave next Wednesday (June 6th) out of ATL. Fly into PARIS on the 7th. Travel France, Germany (my son lives near Brauneberg) and then into Switzerland before departing from ZURICH on the 18th. We return into ATL.

    I filed my 21 day notice well in advance.

    I am nervous and trying not to show it so that my fiance does not get nervous…so maybe you can help.

    1. What if any concerns should I have when checking in and flying out of ATL?
    2. What if any concerns should I have when arriving in PARIS?
    3. What if any concerns should I have while in PARIS?
    4. What if any concerns should I have taking train from PARIS to TRIER, GERMANY?
    5. What if any concerns should I have while in GERMANY?
    6. What if any concerns should I have while crossing border into Switzerland (by auto w/ son)?
    7. What if any concerns should I have while in SWITZERLAND?
    8. What if any concerns should I have when checking in and flying out of ZURICH?
    9. What if any concerns should I have when arriving ATL?
    10. What if any concerns should I have with “secondary”?
    11. Will “secondary” ONLY be when we come back into USA in ATL?
    12. What would you do to best prepare for “secondary”? (i.e. log out of iCloud? log out of OneDrive? delete un-needed apps? Etc?)
    13. Is my travel companion subject to “secondary”? (We are as traveling companions on DELTA and Moblie Passport)

    I know that is ALOT…but please HELP EASE MY NERVES…

    THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE. 🙂

    AD

    • PK

      @AD
      “12. What would you do to best prepare for “secondary”? (i.e. log out of iCloud? log out of OneDrive? delete un-needed apps? Etc?)”

      If you haven’t received a new passport with the unique identifier, you should be prepared that they “could” take your passport right then and there.

      There has been a single report of this happening. Everyone else, except for one person, has received a notification letter in the mail, upon their return to the United States.

    • LostandDevastated

      I don’t think you’d have much to worry about in Switzerland.i haven’t been but I’ve been in contact and working with an immigration attorney for a visa and he told me as long as im not considered an immediate threat to the Swiss government or public I wouldn’t be denied for a visa and travel shouldn’t be a problem even with the passport stamp. He seems to think the whole IML and SO Registry here in the states is completely ludicrous

    • TS

      @AD

      Mail your electronics back to the USA if possible so they are not there to be inspected. Print out boarding passes to take with you on your return trip (print either at the hotel or the airport kiosk). Keep copies of the complete 21 Day SORNA notification you provided on you and in your bag (two copies) when leaving USA.

    • Mike G

      @AD

      As others have posted, you shouldn’t have any problems with your European itinerary, unless something has changed in the last week or two.

      I have been through Secondary at least 100 times, once in Toronto, 3 times in Fort Lauderdale, a dozen or so times in Los Angeles, and the rest in San Ysidro or Otay Mesa.

      Toronto was the worst – took 3 hours! Fort Lauderdale was around 20 minutes, Los Angeles 15 to 60 minutes depending on how busy they are, and the Mexico crossings usually from 10 to 30 minutes.

      Maybe I am just lucky, but so far, no agent has ever asked to see my cell phone, nor my big Nikon Camera, nor my iPad. I don’t know if this is a locational thing or an agent by agent thing. Maybe I don’t fit their profile. That said, if physically and financially able, the suggestions to FedEx your electronics home from your last stop is probably a good one, especially if anything (photos of little kids on the beach, etc.) is even the slightest bit questionable.

      Also, I do carry a copy of my 21 day notice, but no one has ever asked about that either.

  21. JM of Wi.

    @AD FROM Mn
    Have fun on your trip.
    1.) My only fear flying out was that my passport was revoked without my knowing. Fear was gone as I boarded.
    Traveling in Europe was no issues for me. Trains crossing borders check passports most of the time. (Amsterdam-Antwerp did not my last trip.) Car crossing borders may not have passport controls – they did not Belgium/France/Netherlands.

    12.) Bring along 2 copies of your 21 day notice. (keep 1 for yourself) the 2nd can be given to secondary in Atl. giving them one can speed up time spent there. Also if an itinerary is not part of your notice – have it available.
    13.) Your passport will be run separately unless traveling as a family. You will be in a separate line with the X after the initial passport machine screening. your fellow travelers shouldn’t be impacted.
    My overall advice is be patient, and leave xtra time for US customs.

    • E

      @JM of WI:

      I’ve been wondering: when your friend went through Amsterdam Passport control WITH the passport identifier, did he or you watch the officer? It was obviously a new passport. My experience with a new passport is that officers tend to look more closely to be sure it’s legit and not forged. Did either of you see if the officer SAW the identifier in the back and didn’t care, or DIDNT SEE the identifier? Would love to Know this as I need to decide on applying for a new one after mine was revoked.

      • JM of Wi.

        @ E, AD
        My friend flew on a separate airline than me. I was not with him going through customs. My 21 day notice has been taken & copied coming back through US customs on about one half of my European trips. They did not copy it this last may, nor did they copy my friends. My thought is they were able to see that we both had properly given notice.

        • E

          @JM of WI. If you ask your friend, please let us know his impression on whether the border officer SAW the identifier and didn’t care, or the passport check was so cursory that he didn’t see it (in which case it tells us little about how Schengen countries will respond when they DO see it).

          It used to be that border officers in Europe regularly saw a US passport and didn’t even scan it in the computer. That has not happened to me in several years now. They always scan it.

    • AD from MN

      @ JM

      Are you saying that I will have present a copy of 21 day at a “secondary” in ATL while DEPARTING or ARRIVING?

      • CR

        There is no secondary for departure from the US. You will be run through secondary screening upon entry to the US on your return from your international trip.

        You probably won’t need to “present” your copy of your 21-day notice. It is suggested by some here (and it is probably a good idea) that you carry a copy of it with you so that you can prove that you submitted it if that is ever questioned. So far, no one here has reported that they were challenged on that or had to provide proof of 21 day notice. It’s just CYA for your peace of mind.

      • E

        US exit system is electronic: they scan the airline flight manifests. If they want you they’ll come get you off the plane before it leaves (like the guy in Detroit charged with not giving 21 days notice a few years ago). But if you’re good to go you won’t see them.

        There was some talk of CBP instituting border control checks for exits like other countries have, but they’d need to rebuild half the airports to accommodate that. Watch for it though.

      • David

        Have a copy of your 21-Day Travel Notification with you when you are arriving back in the U.S., returning from your trip.

  22. E

    Need advice: has anyone NOT sent back their passport after getting the State dept letter? I’ve been busy since getting the letter. Have not returned it and wonder whether waiting till after the ACSOL conference or the June 25 court date has any point at all.

    • PK

      Perhaps if you wait, and if there is a successful injunction, then the new passport that you would receive would “hopefully not” have the unique identifier.

      I’m still somewhat perplexed though about one thing.
      If they revoke your passport in the system, does it mean it’s revoked in all 195 Countries throughout the world?
      Is the US Passport System somehow electronically connected to every other passport system throughout the world?

      • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

        PK: Regarding “Is the US Passport System somehow electronically connected to every other passport system throughout the world?” Well, yes, at least most of them. There is also the PNR system, the “Passenger Name Record” which also contains information about the passport and whether it is valid or not. Much of what we believe about this system comes from comparing notes of people’s experiences and, it is unavoidable but to conclude that, when the U.S. invalidates a passport, many/most countries seem to quickly know that.

        Let’s take one established example: when Edward Snowden went from Hong Kong to Moscow a few years ago in order to take another flight to, was it Cuba with a continuation to Bolivia, I believe? Anyway, the U.S. authorities revoked his passport while he was en route to Moscow and the Russians knew it immediately. When they checked his passport while trying to board the other flight, he was not allowed on because his passport had become invalid.

        I don’t know the specifics of how many separate databases are available to foreign immigration and law enforcement officials and how much redundancy and interconnection there is between them (this seems to be closely-held information) but we can be sure that adverse information about us can be obtained from both U.S. and INTERPOL databases, at a minimum and the latter, at least, is widely disseminated. INTERPOL seems to be a way for countries to skirt their own rules and restrictions and keep them from having to be accountable.

        • Tuna

          This comment wrt to Russia is interesting, because I have transited airside in dozens of countries over the years, and the passport is never scanned by any government or airline officials. It has been looked at by airline and/or security staff when they scan your hand baggage on your way to the connecting flight, but never scanned in any sort of airline or government system.

    • Mike G

      I guess it depends on the government’s definition of “immediately”. I was busy too, and it was almost a month after I got my letter before I sent mine back. I don’t know what kind of crime they could charge you with. “Illegal possession of government property?”

      Since they know it won’t do you any good, I suspect they wouldn’t do anything until you tried applying for another passport. Then they would probably deny your application since you didn’t return the revoked one.

      There are many problems with the government. They are not clear. They are not consistent. And what happens in any particular situation may have more to do with who is working the passport desk that day, than any concrete policy.

  23. AD from MN

    EUROPE – another ? Will customs in Paris, Germany, or Switzerland do a “secondary” and/or search of electronics or is this done upon re-entry into USA?

    • E

      Never been to secondary in Europe (travel 3-4 times per year). Not that it doesn’t exist; it’s that RCs don’t get pulled out or flagged by their border officers. That said: the new identifier could change that!

    • JM of Wi.

      I do not think so. I have not read of any issues.

  24. Chicago Contact

    In yesterday’s 7-2 US Supreme Court ruling against the baker in Colorado who refused to make a cake for a gay wedding, it seemed to me that they were agreeing that the baker could not be compelled to accept gay marriage, and make a statement (the message on the cake) supporting it. Isn’t this very much like not having to display the “identifier” on our passports? The Supreme Court has long recognized a First Amendment right not to be forced to “speak.” In 1977, for instance, the court ruled that New Hampshire could not require people to display license plates bearing the state’s motto, “Live Free or Die.” Wooley v. Maynard

    • SCOTUS SAVE US NOW

      They didnt really answer if you can, or cannot discriminate in this manor, they said the state f’d up in how they made their decision.

      Relevant excerpts (see p. 20-21):

      “The official expressions of hostility to religion in some of the commissioners’ comments—comments that were not disavowed at the Commission or by the State at any point in the proceedings that led to affirmance of the order—were inconsistent with what the Free Exercise Clause requires. The Commission’s disparate consideration of Phillips’ case compared to the cases of the other bakers suggests the same. For these reasons, the order must be set aside.”

      “The outcome of cases like this in other circumstances must await further elaboration in the courts, all in the context of recognizing that these disputes must be resolved with tolerance, without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs, and without subjecting gay persons to indignities when they seek goods and services in an open market.”

      The issue was more the commissioner’s were overly hostile and used his religion as a way to attack him (the baker), then the court agreed the baker could say no. Also this is a lousy test case because at the time this case was brought colorado didn’t recognize gay marriage so he was refusing to do something for something that wasn’t even legal.

      I think this case honestly is a nothing case in the way they narrowly decided the decision and will not be precedent for anything going forward.

    • CR

      I agree with the assessment of SCOTUS SAVE US NOW who replied to you just above. It was a narrow ruling for the baker because the Colorado civil rights commission displayed hostility toward the baker because of his religion. The evidence of animus came out during oral arguments, and was not refuted or disavowed by the state. The court said that religious neutrality is required by the Constitution when addressing first amendment religious freedom issues, and the Colorado commission didn’t accord the baker that.

      This opinion says nothing about compelled speech. Nor does it establish a right to discriminate against gay people based on sincerely held religious beliefs. SCOTUS did not reach those issues, but they might some day. This just wasn’t the right vehicle for that.

    • AJ

      I agree wholly with SSUN. This was an extremely narrow decision, and was based on the CO CRC’s outright hostility towards and obvious bias against Mr. Phillips’ religious beliefs. Government must be neutral regarding religion, and the CO CRC was not.

      There *might* be a shred of usage for someone with a religious freedom claim, but as a broader freedom of speech claim (under which compelled speech falls), I don’t see it. As the Opinion says, “[t]he outcome of cases like this in other circumstances must await further elaboration…” IOW, this isn’t much of a precedent.

      Finally, I’d like to know how you got the decision “yesterday” (Sunday)…!

  25. Chicago Contact

    I said that wrong: the decision was “for” the baker, not against. Said he did not have to make the cake. That it was compelling him to say something that was against his belief. Maybe ruling was so narrow that it does not apply to our case.

    • CR

      “Said he did not have to make the cake. That it was compelling him to say something that was against his belief.”

      —–

      That’s the “Right not to bake a cake” version of the question. SCOTUS didn’t answer that. See the comments to your previous post above.

      The opinion instead says “Given all these considerations, it is proper to hold that whatever the outcome of some future controversy involving facts similar to these, the Commission’s actions here violated the Free Exercise Clause; and its order must be set aside.” And “When the Colorado Civil Rights Commission considered this case, it did not do so with the religious neutrality that the Constitution requires.”

  26. Major Henderson

    I am wishing to find a lawyer that will file a case for me on this in the Federal Court for Texas. (Not sure which court that would be.) However, of the two lawyers I spoke to, one said he felt I had no case as he agreed with the premise that the law was constitutional, and the second one said he did not handle those type cases and had no recommendations of a lawyer for me that could do that.
    I’m 78 and don’t know how much longer I will be healthy enough to travel, but would like to be able to continue as long as physically able, without this law and the subsequent ones that will surely be following to block my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for my remaining days. I only have one conviction from 1990 and a perfectly clean record since that time, but that does not seem to enter into the equation for which registered offenders will be further encoumbered with these overreaching laws.

  27. jo

    Flew to Paris, 5 days vacation: Just arrived back at LAX. Secondary lasted a total of 2 minutes, checked to ensure my registration was current, out the door. No issues arriving at Paris. Easiest trip ever. Will update if I get a notice about having to get a new passport.

    • Mr. D

      @jo – Did you provide the 21 day notice? And is so were you asked about it on either leg of your trip?

      BTW – Glad you had a great trip with little stress!

      • David

        Thanks for the report, Jo! I’m heading there in a couple months and I’m really looking forward to it. (It’s so nice being over there where you can relax and not worry about S.O. BS. It’s nice to be relaxed, anonymous, and free.)

        • jo

          Gave a few months advanced notice, no one asked. No one inspected my bags, no one harassed me or asked about my conviction. No one inspected my electronics. No one hassled me on the Europe side.

      • jo

        I gave more like 31 days notice. No one asked about it, was never mentioned. Had such a great time, I am going back in August.

  28. warlock

    I arrived at SeaTac from Amsterdam on June 12th, 2018 and was diverted to secondary as expected. He looked at my passport for a while, then said everything was okay (never had any problems with SeaTac before) and I went downstairs and grabbed my luggage. Thought I was home free, but on the way out, I was diverted again. I thought it would just be a luggage inspection, but the guy stared at his monitor for about 15 minutes, asked for a supervisor. After that, he told me he had to confiscate my passport under the AWA. I mentioned that in previous cases, they normally send a letter of revocation and don’t confiscate passports at the airport. He was fairly polite (and even offered to help me with identification if necessary for the remainder of my journey), but wouldn’t return my passport.

    Not sure if this is relevant, but I live in Sorna non-compliant state (Hawaii) and register both addresses (USA & overseas), so I don’t have to give the 21 day notice when traveling.

    • PK

      So you arrived at Seattle International Airport and they confiscated your Passport.

      You would be the 2nd case that I have heard about on this Blog, where someone’s Passport was confiscated at the airport.

    • Mr. D

      @warlock – If you don’t mind my asking is your registrable offense for interaction with or related to being involved with a minor? If it isn’t they should not have confiscated it.

    • TS

      21 day advance notice is federal law regardless if your state is compliant or not. You still have to provide it to your registering office. Whether they know what to do with it or not is irrelevant. As long as you have copies of the 21 day advance notice on you when you travel, you’re okay.

      Finding out why Customs and Border Patrol at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport will certainly be interesting if you can get that information. Any information you’re willing to share such as whether your offense includes a minor or not would be helpful. You also might want to start inquiring at the Department of State about your passport.

    • TS

      But I do find interesting is you did not give 21 day advance notice, were not stopped from boarding your flight, and went through all this on your return. what’s been stated previously and read other places, people were pulled off of the plane or denied boarding if they didn’t give their 21 day advance notice.

      • PK

        @TS
        “what’s been stated previously and read other places, people were pulled off of the plane or denied boarding if they didn’t give their 21 day advance notice.”

        I did not see that the reason this person was pulled off of the plane was their failure to provide 21 day advance notice. My belief is that he was pulled off because of the fact of his Passport already being revoked.

        • TS

          @PK

          I was not specifically referring to the Warlock, but other stories of folks on outbound flights to overseas who have been through that. They did not give 21 days advance notice and did not have this happen to them which I find interesting. It breaks the previously established pattern from what I’ve read.

        • TS

          I meant warlock didn’t have that happened to him referring to not being drug off the plane before taking off overseas like others have who have not done 21-day advance notice.

        • JoshB

          @TS

          Just don’t fly internationally out of the United States- is the best policy.

        • PK

          @TS
          “what’s been stated previously and read other places, people were pulled off of the plane or denied boarding if they didn’t give their 21 day advance notice.”

          I didn’t read about an instance where anyone was pulled off of a plane for failure to provide the 21 advance notification.

          Wasn’t it the Plaintiff in the current IML Lawsuit who was actually pulled off the their plane prior to departure for an international trip? To the best of my knowledge, he wasn’t pulled off because of not providing notification.

        • TS

          @AJ

          That may be, I’m just going off of my memory which may be slightly incorrect. If that’s the case then obviously I apologize for stating something that was incorrect and leading us down the wrong path.

          I still find it interesting that warlock didn’t give 21 days advance notice and nothing happened to him until he got back to the United States.

          @JoshB

          If you choose not to travel outside the United States internationally, that’s your prerogative. I wouldn’t let it stop me. Just follow the rules, regulations, and laws that are in place.

        • AJ

          @TS:
          Did I miss something? I don’t know what you’re referring to. I had made no comment about anything in this thread. (I know rare, but this time true! 😀 )

      • Warlock

        I have read those news reports about people being pulled off planes, ect. However, it always seemed to be a state thing, not federal. Correct me if I am wrong.

        I have always felt that Hawaii tries to work with S.O. on the registration issue, not trying to find a way to confuse/violate them. Here is an article: https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/state-18-pct-of-big-island-sex-offenders-are-noncompliant/

        Around that time, I got a call from the state A.G. saying that my registration wasn’t current. He was making a trip to the Big Island to try and get everyone into compliance. He came out to my place and I showed him my paperwork that I was registered, but for some reason it wasn’t on their computer. Anyway, he had a fingerprint kit with him and the paperwork prepared for me to sign. I talked to him and he said they were just trying to get people into compliance, not arrest them. Generally, their criteria for prosecution was someone that moved without doing a change of address, not a failure to do the yearly update on time.

        This is totally different from the mainland USA where they are just trying to find a way to confuse/violate you.

    • AJ

      @warlock:
      Not sure if this is relevant, but I live in Sorna non-compliant state (Hawaii)
      —–
      ***Not relevant, as you must still comply with Federal Law…
      —–
      and register both addresses (USA & overseas),
      —–
      ***…not relevant as it has zero impact on the 21-day notification requirement…
      —–
      so I don’t have to give the 21 day notice when traveling.
      —–
      ***…risky, and flat-out wrong.

      • Warlock

        I don’t know, I am autistic and I just find it confusing. The form at the police station has nothing about that. I even found some government web sites, but these seem to be laws directing jurisdictions on collecting information, for instance: https://www.smart.gov/pdfs/sorna/SORNAImplementationDocs.pdf

        Our state form does allow us to put future addresses on it and that is what I make sure I fill out (lot more than 21 days before travel).

        A few people have asked about my offense level. It is tier 3 (register for life) and involved a minor.

        I just hope I can get another passport, will be applying very soon.

        • AJ

          @Warlock:
          Your safest route is to give your local LE the required information, and ensure you have proof you’ve done so. Certified mail, with the Certified Mail Tracking Number as a header on a cover letter, is the safest route. That way you have proof not only that you sent the LEOs, but also what was sent. (To do this, you must first go to the Post Office and get the sticker you’ll use, then enter its details on your cover letter.)

          Of course, you should also keep copies of what you sent. I even resort to taking pictures of the items prior to sealing the envelope, so I can show the exact documents sent. (In fact, I take pictures of all sorts of things…claim checks in case it gets lost, my airport/mall parking spot in case *I* get lost 🙂 , etc.)

        • TS

          Since warlock’s passport was revoked, does he claim it is lost then on his new passport paperwork?

  29. Berdoo

    I am wondering what happens when a Registered Citizen moves to another country. And the destination country does not have registration laws. Does anyone have experience or knowledge as to what happens? Is the local US agency required to notify the foreign country? And what about returning to the US to visit?

    • PK

      @Berdoo

      “I am wondering what happens when a Registered Citizen moves to another country. And the destination country does not have registration laws”
      If you could get a Visa in that Country so that you could stay, I would say that you would be free!

      “Is the local US agency required to notify the foreign country?”
      That Country would certainly find out that you are on a list, and it could be an issue during your visa process.

      “And what about returning to the US to visit?”
      You could get arrested.

    • Counting the days

      I am in the process of gaining my German Passport. Once I do I will be gone and never will renew my u.s. passport. I have asked and was told that once you reside on foreign soil, you are not subject to ANY U.S. law. You simply tell the State and feds you are moving offshore. If you ever come back and are still required by your offense or tier system to register, you will resume. The U.S. can send notices until their balls drop, in today’s climate towards U.S. relations, you won’t have any problems. I plan on changing my name once in Germany ( I use my adopted name, but my family name is German) and I will be officially out of reach of any U.S. control. What’s really funny is that if I want to, I can come back to U.S. under my German Passport and customs will not have any record of my offense. Not that I expect to ever return.

      • FATCA SUX

        Renewing your passport is immaterial. Unless you actively renounce your US Citizenship (laborious and expensive) you will always be a US Citizen and subject to US law.

        This includes a prohibition on a relationship with a person under 16, even when it is perfectly legal in the location (i.e. in Germany with an Age of Consent of 14).

        It also means that you, as a US Citizen, must file an income tax return on your world-wide income – every year, regardless of dual citizenship or country of residence. In addition, every US Citizen – regardless of dual citizenship or country of residence, must report all foreign bank accounts over $10,000 (cumulative), annually, under FATCA.

        If you do renounce your US Citizenship, you should expect never again to be admitted to the US as a foreign national visitor. If you currently own assets in the US you will be required to pay an “exit tax” on them.

        Some things to think about.

        • Counting the days

          Why does everyone bring up an underage relationship as one aspect of living overseas? If that is your intention by moving, then you have issues. This should be about a clean start, not continueing your previous ways which caused all the grief in your life. Basically , grow up!

        • PK

          @Counting the Days

          “Why does everyone bring up an underage relationship as one aspect of living overseas? If that is your intention by moving, then you have issues.”

          I don’t think everyone brings up underage relationships when considering to live overseas, and I would resent your comment that it could be someone’s ‘intention’ to have an unlawful underage relationship with someone in a foreign country.

          I think talking about the age of consent issue is very important especially if the person who is considering to move to a foreign country, is an RSO.

          Don’t you know that many people have the appearance of a 20+ year old, however, in reality they are only 15 or 16 years old? Moreover, these rascals can lie to you about their age, and claim that “of course I am 18 years old” but you sir would be strictly liable from a legal perspective. If you hooked-up with this foreign person, and they actually turned out to be under the age of consent in the United States, you my friend would be considered a victimizer who sought out a victim to victimize in order to have deviate sexual intercourse.

          In this case, was it the adult’s intention of having an underage relationship?

          That being said, I think discussing age of consent issues in other countries is very important, and a legitimate conversation to have, for anyone considering a permanent move outside of the United States.

        • FATCA SUX

          @Counting the days – come again? You make a naive and simplistic (at best), and completely incorrect and dangerous (at worst – in case someone believes you) statement, and when shown how and why that is the case *I* need to grow up? Okay…

          Nothing you say is correct. As a US Citizen you will always be subject to ALL US laws. As a foreign national you cannot come back on your foreign passport unless you lie on your ESTA about your background. Your foreign passport will always show your place of birth. You don’t think CBP can connect the dots? Good luck. How naive can one be?

          And I did not bring up an underage relationship – as in Germany a relationship with a willing person over 14 years of age (subject to a few parameters) is overage and completely legal. For anyone on the planet except for a US passport holder. This is merely an example – and a pertinent one to this forum – how US law applies to otherwise legal conduct.

          Have you ever been to Germany? I would bet most Germans would tell you to take your puritan, save the chiiiiildren a$$ back to Murica – the country where children are shot in schools on a daily basis and the country that has caused nothing but chaos in the Middle East – costing thousands if not hundreds of children their lives. And straining Germany and German society to the breaking point at the moment.

          Perhaps this is about a clean start, but the point is that your clean start is an illusion for the reasons (legal and financial – the only ones I know of, there may be more) unless you renounce your citizenship. Which has other consequences.

          You may want to spend some more time thinking about your plan. In the meantime I suggest YOU grow up.

      • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

        “I have asked and was told that once you reside on foreign soil, you are not subject to ANY U.S. law. You simply tell the State and feds you are moving offshore.”

        No! Absolutely not true. As long as you are a U.S. Citizen, then you are subject to many U.S. laws whether you live here or not. This includes its age of consent laws, by the way. There have been a number of criminal prosecutions in U.S. courts for sex that occurred in foreign countries. This includes people who had residency in other countries and who had no intent to ever return to the U.S. You will also have to report any foreign bank accounts and file U.S. taxes.

        If you have dual citizenship, then I advise leaving the U.S. and then formally relinquishing your U.S. citizenship. It’s a hassle but it’s the only way to get out of its clutches. You will still be a U.S. Citizen until the U.S. acknowledges that you are not.

        • NY won't let go

          @David funny story.

          Yesterday I get a call from an embassy which I’ve been emailing to try and claim my birthright as a halfling 😂

          They asked me if I held two passports yet, I told them no.
          Then they asked if I wanted to renounce my US Citizenship, I said yes but I need my other one first.
          They then asked for my family’s phone number to check my origin and they would call back.
          I’m not sure if they want to just drop and swap, but even if it was North Korean at this point I wouldn’t mind.

        • AJ

          even if it was North Korean at this point I wouldn’t mind.
          —–
          Yeah, at least NoKo seems to be on the upswing, instead of this crumbling heap in which we exist.

        • NY won't let go

          Got a reply from the embassy, they said I would have to give up p my US citizenship to get the other.

          Just waiting on them to let me know the process now.

    • NY won't let go

      If you ever get put on the NY registry then you still have to report to them and send an updated picture every 3 years.

      I don’t live in the country and have no interest in ever coming back. I married a local here and visas have not been an issue. I know the US Marshalls sent their notice but it hasn’t affected coming in and out of here as my wife is from here and they value family more than a crime you had finished your sentence on.

      My picture and information no longer show on the federal registry, just New York.

      If you google my name though the first link will be to one of those white knight sites showing my foreign address along with all of my pictures from over 10 years back.

      Luckily I live in a country where not many people will google someone because it’s rude and invasive. One person did and tried to ruin my marriage because he had a crush on my wife.

      • PK

        “If you ever get put on the NY registry then you still have to report to them and send an updated picture every 3 years.”

        Could you elaborate? I was told by a prominent sex offender Attorney in New York, that one DOES NOT need to report to New York, or submit to annual registration requirements. Although she didn’t mention anything about updating a picture.

        Are you sure you have your facts correct?

        • NY won't let go

          There is no annual to send back but if I move, change my email, or anything that would be on the registry I have to inform them immediately. Otherwise I must update them with a picture every three years according to the last email I had gotten from them.

          This is after I had a pretty irate conversation with them on the phone where they told me I would have to mail in the address form every year or have a felony warrant for my arrest. I am a level two.

          Of the four lawyers I’ve contacted I’ve been told unless I sue the registry and get removed I will have to follow whatever they tell me to do as the decision of Doe V O’Donnell gives NY the power to do so. Although the decision of Richard Roe says otherwise as my crime and registration didn’t originate in NY.

          So I’m pretty stuck without a solution.

        • SCOTUS SAVE US NOW

          I’ve always wondered if you apply for a Certificate of Relief of Disabilities in NY and Granted if you could force that to make them release you from registration

        • NY won't let go

          Not sure. When I lived there they told me the only way off is if I had my record pardoned back in Michigan because it didn’t happen in NY.

          Still not sure how they even do the level assessment. My crime was over 10 years old with no other offense on my record. Not even a parking ticket.
          The “risk” they assessed me of being sounded like I’d stepped into the courthouse the first time where they made me out to be public enemy number one on a first and only offense.

        • SCOTUS SAVE US NOW

          It might not matter, but in NY they have a certificate of relief of disability if you only have a single felony (and unlimited misdemeanors). Its easy to apply for. Once you receive it you may be able to push the point that it relieves you of all disabilities (not just civil) and that SORA is a disability.

          Might be worth looking into. I know i have but everytime I do something comes up and stops me from following through.

  30. Counting the days

    Has anyone travelled to Oman or have any knowledge of the “issues” with travelling there. I looked on the Travel matrix but Oman wasn’t listed.

    • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

      I know that the age-of-consent there is eighteen.

      • CR

        When it comes to sex, aren’t US citizens subject to US federal laws, in addition to a foreign government’s laws, regarding the definition of a minor whenever they travel outside the US?

        If I am not wrong about that, then the effective AOC applicable to a US citizen when outside of the US is the greater of the US federal definition (I think 18) and the foreign government’s AOC.

        Am I wrong about this?

        • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

          That’s correct. I’m not sure that anyone has been prosecuted in U.S. courts for having violated U.S. AOC when not violating in-country AOC. I don’t know that their capability has yet extended so far. However, I would not be surprised if it has. The really disturbing aspect of this claim on its citizens is that the U.S. now views us as their property who can never truly get away from its domination unless we can (somehow) become citizens of another country. This is of profound interest to other people, regardless of their likelihood to fall afoul of its sex laws. Still, this has not yet crystallized into a movement to reclaim our fundamental, American, rights.

  31. Counting the days

    I have noticed that many comments about travelling overseas have included age of consent remarks. I have a question…………
    If that was your offense, have you not learned your lesson and grown as a human being? If that is your sole reason for travel, then stay here in U.S. and stop fucking it up for the rest of us that want to get on with our lives. I mean to sound harsh, because it seems obvious to me anyway that some on this site haven’t learned from their mistake. There are millions of people out there that you can interact with that won’t get you put behind bars and screw the rest of us over. Granted, mine was not a contact or proposition offense, but an offense none the less. As someone that has travelled most of my life and has friends and family that I might never see again, it really erks me when I read travel comments like ” watch the age of consent” or ” the age of consent is lower in that particular country”. It means that is on your mind, and that is wrong and it hurts everyone.

    • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

      You’re quoting out of context if not fabricating quotes, altogether. Perhaps you should read more carefully. Who the hell said anything about AOC being a reason for travel? People are talking about age-of-consent laws on this forum because it’s important to note that, no matter where you travel to, the long arm of the U.S. can reach out and destroy you. That has a definite bearing on living within the law and is a very important fact for people in our community to know. Instead, you’ve twisted the obvious intent of my statement and possibly someone else’s to characterize our words salaciously. Maybe if you’re sensitized beyond reason by discussions of age-of-consent laws and fail to recognize that they represent legitimate concerns for safety and freedom, then you should just stop reading comments. And get off your busybody, holier-than-thou high horse. I sure as hell don’t need to be lectured to by you.

    • NPS

      It appears Counting the Days is projecting. Perhaps he needs to look inward and judge himself instead of making erroneous assumptions about what others may or may not be saying. I’ve been following the Int’l Travel forum for quite some time just to get updates. I haven’t really seen many comments about AOC laws. Maybe two? And it had nothing to do with being the reason for travel. Once again…Counting the Days = projecting.

    • Tim Moore

      I think the main reason people bring up the age of consent thing in these forums is to show how our government is not giving other governments the complete story on the traveler. Let’s say the equivalent is for Iran to send out a notice with its travelers saying they are sex offenders or social deviants, when the reason is they had an adulterous affair, drank alcohol or ate pork. Many countries will say, so what, please enter, enjoy yourselves and obey our laws. The point is the US government isn’t giving the receiving country enough info to make a judgement based on its own mores and laws. It is trying to manipulate other countries into denying a registrant entry, when it would not otherwise , if it knew what the exact crime was. But I assume that some countries may also say, well, you can’t obey the laws in your own country, you will likely disobey ours. That is the poison of these letters, these green notices. They should only be sent when there is broad agreement in the world as to what is a dangerous person. As usual the US is writing rules for the rest of the world.

      • David

        And, Tim Moore, not just the green notices. I frequently travel to France where the AOC is very different from ours. But if I were to present a passport with a “unique identifier” printed on it, what will they assume?
        (Hopefully, they will rightly think “You’re American countrymen are freakishly hysterical about sex ….. and your lawmakers are even worse! Welcome to our more reasonable country!” 🇫🇷)

        • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

          The French laws have recently changed although still less insane than in the States.
          The courts are no longer to find the use of force necessary to determine “rape” so this means that the judge’s hands are being tied.

        • Tim Moore

          Well I hope they have some immunity to our brand of insanity. We should be able to escape our country to avoid persecution, and others should be able to escape persecution and come here. What good is a world if most of it is off limits to all but a few of its inhabitants, or you have to go through a bureaucratic labyrinth to get somewhere? I like where I am at, the universe is at hand every night, but the world is getting more and more compartmentalized. It is feeling like a prison. Strange, because we have all this technology to move people about, at the same time we are creating government structures that keep us from moving freely.

  32. NY won't let go

    Well the ministry says I can’t gain my birth right because my parents never filed the paperwork of my birth. Thanks mom and dad and your American dream attitudes.
    FML. May just have to go about it another way and work through the 10-20 year process of getting it here. I’m only 3 1/2 more years away from being able to get permanent residence. Then another 5 years if they approve PR I can apply for citizenship which would null out the US one.

  33. AD from MN

    EUROPE – Smooth Sailing…

    First and foremost I want to thank EVERYONE on this blog for helping prepare for my trip overseas to EUROPE.

    I did as you all instructed and filed my Travel Itinerary well in advance. It was VERY DETAILED with all travels dates, addresses of hotels, ports of entry.

    Well here is how it went…

    We took off from ATLANTA without incident. We arrived into PARIS – Charles De Gaulle. I breezed through customs, actually cleared customs prior to my traveling companion – haha!

    We took the ICE Train to Wittlich, Germany; passing through Mannheim without anyone asking for passport.

    We drove to Switzerland, entered at Basel and again was not asked to provide passport.

    We DEPARTED EUROPE via Zurich without any problem. ARRIVED ATLANTA and again breezed through customs. I used MOBILE PASSPORT upon entry. NO SECONDARY.

    My travel overseas (my first on registry) was WONDERFUL and without any issues.

    Thank you again to all on this blog. Your input and assistance helped a great deal.

    • E

      AD from MN, congrats! I love Europe for so many reasons. They think our laws are totally crazy over here.
      Two thoughts: (1) please update HERE if you receive a passport revocation letter.
      (2) was your conviction hands-on and with a minor? If yes I’m totally amazed you could use Mobile Passport and no secondary. Mobile Passport has always given me an error when I tried to use it, “please proceed to the immigration counter, yada yada.”
      Last question: do you have a marked or unmarked passport? Thanks. Let’s Keep the info coming. I returned from Europe in May and got my passport revocation letter three weeks later.

    • David

      That’s great, AD!! I’m so glad you had a good (and hassle-free) European trip!!

    • Mike G

      @AD from MN

      Very happy to hear that your European vacation went well!
      I am curious: What is a Mobile Passport? Is that the passport card? If so, I thought that was only for crossing the border by land (Canada & Mexico).
      Anyway, they revoked my card with the same letter as when they revoked my regular passport, and the letter went on to say that I was no longer eligible to get another passport card.
      I hope you avoid the certified letter, but keep us updated!

      • TS

        @Mike G

        The Mobile Passport app speeds you through U.S. Customs and Border Protection at 1 cruise port and 25 airports.

        https://mobilepassport.us/

      • SCOTUS SAVE US NOW

        Mobile Passport is a smart application for your smart phone

        • Mr. D

          Well time to test the international waters so to speak. Have to be in Germany on 7/01. Emailed my registering contact ten days ago letting him know my plans. A few days later he responded back stating that he no longer handles those responsibilities and provided me the contact info for his replacement. Once I spoke with her she asked me come in and sign their form whenever is best for me before departure. I did that this morning and obtained a copy for my records.

          Will be changing planes in Ansterdam and don’t expect any issues getting there. Am guessing secondary at LAX will be time consuming as in the past. Of course I’ll be holding my breath for a few weeks after my return in case a certified letter arrives. And if it does whether to spend more money with my attorney to see if the Feds can be made to see the validity of my 1203.4 or not. Fun times indeed

  34. chuck

    Traveling to Poland in November anyone have any issues there? Thanks Chuck

    • Relief

      @Chuck- Do not fly into Poland directly. Fly into Germany or Amsterdam or Paris then train, car or “domestic/Euro” flight into Poland, after you have cleared Schengen Internationally.

      Poland has recently instituted a public registry and has some Rule of Law issues in dispute with the EU. Uncertain how they would deal with an Interpol green RSO notice and best not to chance it. These other Europe locations are safe.

      • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

        That’s true, Poland is part of Schengen. However, it is important to remember that Schengen-member nations are not allowing Registrants in BECAUSE they are part of Schengen but because those countries have taken that policy individually. Schengen appears to have no policies regarding Registrant immigration. This seems to be a point of confusion for many here.

  35. David

    “The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time.” – Thomas Jefferson (Printed on the endorsement pages of my United States passport. Rather ironic.)

    • Mike G

      Yes, but apparently not the same God the government uses!

      Wasn’t it Abraham Lincoln who said something like “The best way to get rid of a bad law is to aggressively enforce it”?

      Hasn’t worked for us, yet 🙁

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