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National

Passport revoked

[narsol.org 4/27/18]

By Scott . . . I’m on the board of Illinois Voices for Reform and have been actively involved with the organization since 2012. I am on the registry for life as currently required by Illinois law due to an incident involving a minor back in 2008. I served two years of probation and successfully completed sex offender counseling in 2012. My wife and I love to travel, and we were fortunate to be able to travel to Europe for a week at the end of March. I gave the federally required 21 days international travel notice to my local police department. I had no problems traveling to Europe other than the usual hassle of being sent to secondary at O’Hare airport upon return to the U.S. which is typically a 5-10 minute inconvenience.

Approximately two weeks after I returned from Europe, the U.S. State Department sent out a passport revocation letter as required by International Megan’s Law. This letter arrived at my home via certified mail about a week after they sent it. The letter, as shown, requires me to immediately return my passport since under federal law my passport needs to contain words alerting countries that I was convicted of a sex offense against a minor. The government requires me to return my passport, and if I want a new one, I have to apply for one as if I have never had a passport. The expense will be around $200 for a new passport which includes obtaining a copy of my birth certificate ($26), another 10-year passport ($110) which, by the way, I had already renewed last year, and the execution fee ($35).

If the government requires this stamp on my passport, I can’t understand why they just don’t make me mail in the passport so that some overpaid government worker can stamp it and mail it back to me. Why does the government revoke my passport and make me go through the expense and hassle of renewing the passport?

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  1. FRegistryTerrorists

    Just keep in mind that people who support this harassment deserve to be punished. They are not Americans. They are not your neighbors. They are criminal, harassing terrorists who cannot mind their own business or leave other people alone. Their intent is to harm people, their spouses, and their children.

    • Roger

      @FRegistryTerrorists, I assume you mean POLITICALLY punished, with which I would agree.

      However, ACSOL and other organizations fighting for the rights of registrants would condemn any kind of violence or other illegal actions. If anyone were to do illegal actions, it would strip whatever little hard-earned sympathy we have slowly been earning from society.

      Let’s work TOGETHER to Show Up, Stand Up, and Speak Up. We can use people like MLK as inspiration for lasting change.

  2. Eric

    If this wasn’t punishment and harassment then the more effective way would be to e-mail the appropriate authorities at your destination. Why is allowing non-professionals at service desks who see your passport doing justice or protecting children? And what does the person at the airline counter do when they see your passport? They notify the appropriate authorities, which could have been done before the traveler left. No, this is clearly about public humiliation as a form of punishment. Otherwise a more effective and professional confidential means would be made. If a person is a drug smuggler it isn’t stamped on their passport, but you can be sure the authorities know they are coming to town.

  3. Sunny

    And what happens if you simply refuse to send in your passport? If this happens to me, I fully intend to commit civil disobedience and hold onto my existing passport. The silver lining may be that registrants could appeal their underlying conviction on the grounds that had they known about this passport requirement, they would have pled not guilty and gone to trial. I certainly intend to challenge my underlying misdemeanor conviction if I receive such a letter regarding my passport. We should all, at the very least, bring litigation in these cases. If you lack funds, most states will waive the court fees if you make little to no income, but you will of course have to file it yourself.

    • PK

      Wouldn’t it be revoked automatically in the System?

    • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

      I really struggle to see how the government can demand them back. They’ve already canceled the damned things and they won’t work. On what basis can they demand their return? Apart from seizing the passports of those under criminal indictment to prevent them fleeing the tender mercies of the U.S. “justice system,” I can think of no other occasion when they have “demanded” them back. Personally, I would keep it.

      • Mr. D

        @David K – Exactly. In this case they are requesting that you apply for a new passport as if you’re almost never had one. I am going to Europe this summer for work and it will be interesting to see if I get a letter upon my return. Beyond fighting them over the language of the word conviction which my 1203.4 supposedly removes ever have been convicted I will set that passport aside and when I get my new one with the supposed identifier on the back page I will keep the old one and use it when I travel internationally and use it toward Identifying myself at hotels and anywhere else where they are looking for ID.

        • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

          I like your spirit. However, when you get a new passport, they expect you to turn in your old one which they will return to you, albeit with a hole drilled all the way through it, just to put a fine point on its invalidity. If you fail to turn in your old passport, even if you say that you’ve lost it, the State Department will make you pay in other ways. You go on a list that says that you are suspected of not playing nice with the government, your lord-and-master, and this has a way of following you. There is, after all, a thriving black market for real passports. It may result in adverse scrutiny at borders and whatever other inconveniences they can think of. I got pulled over at Immigration in China once because they SUSPECTED that I might have a lost or stolen passport even though I have never had one go missing. This was right after State had renewed my passport but held it up right till my date of departure because THEY seemed to think that I had reported a passport lost or stolen. I never had and I don’t know where they got that idea from. Hong Kong still refused me entry but there was more to that: they had recently eliminated visa-on-arrival from Hong Kong (coming on the train) and I didn’t know that. Anyway, all of these damned governments take “lost” or “stolen” passports very, very seriously. INTERPOL also puts you on a list, the database of Stolen and Lost Travel Documents (SLTD), which means that they will be on the lookout for that passport for a very long time. So…. if you happen to be carrying BOTH in your travels, the one being for hotels, banks, rental cars, etc., then you run the risk of being discovered and there certainly is a criminal penalty for lying about a lost or stolen passport. If you are like most of us and get pulled over by Homeland Security every time you return to the country and your bags and your person thoroughly searched, as I always do – and they FIND it – then you are in a heap of trouble. Sigh. I can’t recommend it even if it is something I would like to do myself. You really need to turn it in if, and when, they demand you return it and IF you still need a valid passport to travel. If not, then, by all means, keep it. Let us know how it goes.

        • Sunny

          I wonder how difficult it would be to simply remove the “marker” on the back page, like if the ink could be obscured or altered in some way to make it illegible. In any case, I don’t intend to give up my passport if I ever receive such a letter. I doubt any government official would come to my door seeking my passport, however I suspect that once revoked in the system, officials at the border would then seize the passport. I’m not sure how it works. I wonder about registrants living in states that have chosen against implementing Real ID; residents of those states will have to rely on passports for domestic travel, which is constitutionally protected.

        • TS

          @Sunny, et al

          Altering a passport is frowned upon. Read below:

          Passport and Visa Fraud: A Quick Course

          https://www.state.gov/m/ds/investigat/c10714.htm

          18 U.S. Code § 1543 – Forgery or false use of passport

          https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1543

          Whoever falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, mutilates, or alters any passport or instrument purporting to be a passport, with intent that the same may be used; or

          Whoever willfully and knowingly uses, or attempts to use, or furnishes to another for use any such false, forged, counterfeited, mutilated, or altered passport or instrument purporting to be a passport, or any passport validly issued which has become void by the occurrence of any condition therein prescribed invalidating the same—

          Shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 25 years (if the offense was committed to facilitate an act of international terrorism (as defined in section 2331 of this title)), 20 years (if the offense was committed to facilitate a drug trafficking crime (as defined in section 929(a) of this title)), 10 years (in the case of the first or second such offense, if the offense was not committed to facilitate such an act of international terrorism or a drug trafficking crime), or 15 years (in the case of any other offense), or both.

          (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 771; Pub. L. 103–322, title XIII, § 130009(a)(2), title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2030, 2147; Pub. L. 104–208, div. C, title II, § 211(a)(2), Sept. 30, 1996, 110 Stat. 3009–569; Pub. L. 107–273, div. B, title IV, § 4002(a)(3), Nov. 2, 2002, 116 Stat. 1806.)

        • AJ

          @Mr. D.:
          Beyond fighting them over the language of the word conviction which my 1203.4 supposedly removes ever have been convicted[.]
          —–
          Good luck fighting a Federal law using a California law. The Federal definition of “conviction” operates independent of any State definitions or actions.

        • Will Allen

          David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life (April 29, 2018):

          I can’t see giving a passport or anything else back to the criminal regimes. It’s just wrong. But if it’s an actual legal requirement, then a person ought to do it for the only reason of protecting themselves. I certainly wouldn’t carry an illegal passport around.

          However, it would be extremely funny to burn the passport and then return a very, very nasty letter to the criminal regime. Perhaps something that started:

          “I’m sorry but I don’t have my passport any longer. I loaned it to an international terrorist. No, that’s not right. What happened? Oh yes, I accidentally had it in my trash and I burned it all in my back yard. So I would return it except that it doesn’t exist any longer.

          Also, please go F yourself. You are a scumbag and an anti-American. Get out of my country. Stop supporting the stupidity of big government.”

    • Hypothetical revoked passport retrieval

      One way they could get their revoked passport in your name back is through a compliance check with a few extra people involved during a multi-agency compliance sweep possibly where you are highlighted for checking on and retrieving of it (but you wouldn’t know it) or since FBI/Marshal’s are able to do the work on request from the Department of State and they happen to be in the area with the local LE office doing similar compliance work. Not saying they would go the distance to do this for retrieving it, but since RCs know these checks do happen, the cover is there.

      Another way is to hold any tax returns or other US Government monetary value in the person’s name whose passport was revoked until the passport has been returned. Not saying they would go the distance to do this for retrieving it either.

      You have to think about how you would do it if you were on their side then flip it when you are opposing them. They have ways, but it would take work on their part to do it with stretched resources already.

      • AJ

        @Hypothetical revoked passport retrieval:
        Just how would local LE, FBI, USMS, State, or *any* government body get the passport without a warrant? If anyone is letting *any* LEO across their threshold for any reason that doesn’t involve supervision or a warrant, they’re putting themselves at needless, extreme risk. Beyond that, what’s to say you haven’t already mailed it in and it got lost? There are many cases of Post Office types hoarding, and even burning, undelivered mail for years. Maybe one’s returned passport suffered a similar fate.

        Methinks your hypothetical lacking.

  4. D

    I like your civil disobedience idea. I’m not sure how it would work, because all U.S. passports clearly state that they are the property of U.S. government and may be revoked at its discretion. Nonetheless, the fact that we are being singled out for persecution and others (i.e., drug dealers, bank robbers, etc) are not being so identified, certainly would be a good argument of unequal treatment. (In my own humble I-am-not-a-lawyer opinion.)

    I am hoping that the lawsuit against IML will result in an injunction against D.O.S. revoking any more passports. I will be heading to Europe in the fall and, as things stand at the moment, I expect that I will receive a revocation letter upon my return to the U.S.

    • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

      I have never heard of State ever demanding the return of a passport unless it belonged to the subject of a criminal investigation out on bail. Although, they may do this with so-called “deadbeat dads” and people accused of stealing their own money from the federal government in the form of tax avoidance, I had assumed that they just canceled the passports in their monster system in which case they’re pretty useless anyway as a viable travel document unless you’re a black marketeer and know how to modify it to match an actual person. If it were me, and I were not wanting to renew my passport for a piece-of-shit scarlet letter version, I would try keeping it and see how persistent and threatening they became. If it got too uncomfortable, I might cave.

      • AJ

        @David Kennerly:
        I have never heard of State ever demanding the return of a passport unless it belonged to the subject of a criminal investigation out on bail.
        —–
        I agree. I know multiple federal employees who have kept their Official passports after expiration, despite their being property of the USG. Official passports are those used by federal employees, other than diplomats (who get ones that say “Diplomat” on them), when traveling internationally on USG business. They’re only good for 5 years, are embossed with “OFFICIAL” on the cover, and the cover is red-brown, instead of blue.

        I think the only time it will matter is if one tries to use it after revocation or when seeking a renewal. Beyond that, I think State has bigger fish to fry.

  5. JohnDoe

    I would suggest Scott gets the best Lawyer that he can, or joins a class-action lawsuit if possible in any way. Suing the idiots in government is the only chance for justice.

    Scott certainly made the ultimate mistake, and that was being honest with with his Government and giving that travel notice. You might as well have said you were Jewish to the Nazi Regime.

    When people get it through their heads finally that this government does NOT, in ANY WAY, have your best intentions at heart, then maybe they will stand together and say ‘Uncle sam, please shove these laws up your a**s where they belong’.

    • AJ

      @JohnDoe:
      Scott certainly made the ultimate mistake, and that was being honest with with his Government and giving that travel notice.
      —–
      Riiigght, because the Feds never crosscheck travelers against criminal databases or anything. And goodness knows USMS would never lurk at the departure gate to nab someone, making an example out of them. What the heck was he thinking, avoiding a Federal offense?

  6. Registry Keeps Me From My Partner

    FYI, in NY if you’re on parole or probation and intend on travelling abroad, the probation office will require you to submit your old passport and apply for and obtain a new IML passport before you travel.

    They say “We’re just following what IML clearly states you need to do”.

  7. Timothy D.A. Lawver

    Congress acts to protect non US constituency interests….sold out for sure. Blame the russians. Housed in Utah the Angel Watch programs in that pesky NSA facility used to gather metadata under sec. 702 on All American Citizens, Biometric data as well. Head on over to eff.org for details on that.

    We are not experiencing a centralization of power are we?

    • David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life

      Thanks, Timothy but I’m not finding a reference to the Utah Data Center and Angel Watch at EFF or on Google. Is it stated anywhere that those facilities are used for Angel Watch?

  8. SCOTUS SAVE US NOW

    I wonder if this falls under the Eighth Amendment (Amendment VIII) of the United States Constitution prohibits the federal government from imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishments. You now are paying more for (because you are paying again) for the same privileges

  9. bob

    I do NOT TRAVEL (just in the us) If im asked via letter… not happening, letter going in the TRASH SAME as the JURY NOTICE Letters do ! LOL
    A passport is great as a second id (bank account or whatever) yea they MA?Y enter it into the bank system but they dont use it for anything other than

    I used to reply convicted on such and such, and would return it UNSIGNED I got a reply saying SIGN Here, tossed it in the trash to ! haha

  10. Justa#

    Recently traveled to Asia to visit family and also for business. My wife and child hold both US and foriegn passports. I gave the 21 day notice. Upon arrival at destination I was held in custody under guard in a “hotel” room that I was obliged to pay for. Ended up being given a mattress on the floor in the middle of the night between two strangers. Wasnt allowed to purchase water or food. Luckily one of my fellow “inmates” allowed me to have some of his water as I had medications that I needed to take. Come morning I called the US Embassy to plead my case. 25 years since completing treatment with perfect record. Many trips overseas no problems. I was able to call Embassy who talked to local immigration who’s response was that I had been flagged by the US, not anything in thier local system. My passport was held and I was put on a plane to my layover after 24 hours. On the plane I politely demanded my passport which they refused to return, saying it would be returned in the US. At my layover I continued to demand my passport which after much polite argument was returned to me. On arrival in the US I scanned my passport in the automated system and was routed to an agent. I presented not my valid passport but my expired passport to the agent out of fear that it would be confiscated or marked. This triggered 5 gaurds escorting me to inspection. After they assured me that my passport would not be marked, I finally presented my valid passport, and after inspection, and confiscating my expired passport I was allowed to leave. Now months later I recieve a letter saying my passport has been revoked and that I need to return it and apply for a Scarlet letter. Now my plans to retire on the property we own seems unachievable. I’ve already made my mind up as to my course of action, and the constitutionality in this matter, but thought it might be useful to get input and share my experience with others.

    • PK

      You mentioned that you recently traveled to Asia, and then months later you received a revocation letter.

      When exactly did you travel to Asia?

      How long ago did you receive your letter?

      Which country was it?

    • Mike G

      @Justa#
      There are probably many of us with similar experiences, but your treatment was much worse than mine. I traveled to an Asian country (Thailand) with my wife to visit her family whom I had never met. Ironically, my wife and daughter also have U.S. and Thai passports.

      They were waiting for me (4 security people) with a placard with my name on it as I got off the plane. I thought my wife’s family had arranged a special welcome for me! Well it was special. After I identified myself to them, they escorted me and my wife to a small room inside the airport where they showed me a copy of the letter they had received from the U.S. Government (Angel Watch). Attached to the letter was an 8 1/2 x 11 photo of me taken from some website, and on my picture it said “Child Sex Predator”. Well, I am certainly not that, and no one who knows what I did 24 years ago to get on the registry thinks that it even rises to the level of molestation, but I guess that is beside point now.

      After a couple of hours of my wife trying to call someone who might help (unfortunately it was a Friday evening) we gave up, and ended up leaving on the same plane we flew in on. Interestingly, they never looked at, nor even asked to see my passport. They were actually very nice. They even turned me loose to wander around the airport, telling me where I could find some restaurants to get something to eat. They only warned me not to miss my flight. While I was wandering the airport, my wife went outside to meet her waiting family, and give them some gifts we had brought for them.

      It was rather devastating, but could have been a lot worse, I guess. We lost around $4000 with the plane tickets and the tours we had booked that they wouldn’t refund.

      My passport was revoked about a month ago, shortly after we returned from two weeks in Europe.

      • Will Allen

        Retaliate. Just keep it legal. Not because that is the right thing to do, but because their “laws” are weapons that they will certainly use in war.

        Find people who directly support these actions and figure out how to lower the quality of their lives. It is important to deliver hate directly to the homes and families of people who support this. They must suffer and not enjoy peace.

      • PK

        @Mike G
        “they showed me a copy of the letter they had received from the U.S. Government (Angel Watch). Attached to the letter was an 8 1/2 x 11 photo of me taken from some website, and on my picture it said “Child Sex Predator””

        It is a shame you could not take a picture of this letter and accompanying photo with your cellphone.

    • Will Allen

      Retaliate. Just keep it legal. Not because that is the right thing to do, but because their “laws” are weapons that they will certainly use in war.

      Find people who directly support these actions and figure out how to lower the quality of their lives. It is important to deliver hate directly to the homes and families of people who support this. They must suffer and not enjoy peace.

  11. Alexander Rodrigues

    Is there an updated list of countries able 2 travel with the new stamped passport?

  12. John dover

    I would like to know if I have to pay my restatotion before i can get off prole I owe 198.00

    • Lake County

      Restitution and fines must be paid prior to getting off probation or parole. Your probation or parole can be extended by the court until all conditions of your sentence are completed.

  13. J

    Why hasn’t anyone raised an 8th amendment violation claim on this? There already seems to be precedence in rulings that specifically mention the idea of “public shaming” as being cruel and unusual. If having a special mark on your passport denoting you are a RC that, to me, is the very definition of public shaming as every official you hand that passport will automatically assume you are some sort of monster etc etc. First time posting, eagerly awaiting the outcome from the Colorado case, not a lawyer but from what I have read and what I think I understand IML (or at the very least the provision requiring special marks) would be unconstitutional.

    And not to be “the crazy guy in the room” because I know it is “only” a mark on a passport.. but I think I remember what happened the last time a group of people were forced to wear (or present) a mark telling people “what they were” it ended pretty badly..

    • TS

      For fear of getting laughed and booed out of this thread of the forum, some red team thinking of my own (devil’s advocate if you prefer, but using a business review term) on the passport marking to consider:

      The marker is on the last page for a reason: To avoid the implications of a marker on the front cover or front page(s) that was common to the ID papers design during the time when Jewish people were identified with their marker on/in their ID papers and clothing. This would be how the USG would get around the comparisons today being discussed here. Would you find that anywhere publicly? I don’t think so. Though, never know if someone wants to dig and ask the right questions of the right people when researching the processing of how the USG got to this point beyond just the law passed by Congress, e.g. how was this verbiage decided upon when thinking of this stamp and its location in the passport?

      However, their placement THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT AT ALL! I want to be expressly clear on that point, it does not make it right regardless and not excused. Just throwing this thought out for the masses here to consider because it can be asked and potentially discovered if another IML challenge is mounted either here or through anther SOL entity.

    • TS

      @J

      Harm would mostly likely need to happen first due to the stamp so the public shame you mentioned is documented and can be used in a case against the stamp. That could happen wherever the passport is used as an ID when required, domestically or internationally, during travel or in everyday life where it is used as an ID and the stamp page is seen. Just a thought…

      • J

        @TS

        Yes I think the whole “put it on the last page” was exactly that a lame attempt to avoid comparison. The fact still remains that they are singling out a certain population regardless of WHERE they put any kind of mark. Its just like the terminology that surrounds RC’s. First it was “sex offender” and the very nature of the term is brilliant in the terms of propaganda because when someone hears that they think of someone who is “other” or less than or dangerous. Then they started using “registered sex offender” (any news story will always use this terminology) and the idea of that is that the officiousness of the word “registered” subconsciously makes people assume credibility and legitimacy. but I digress..

        Unfortunately I believe you might be right about there needing to be actual harm before it can be challenged on a 8th amendment violation. But then again, perhaps not. The cases I have seen recently where a judge has ruled it cruel and unusual (and I may be wrong on this) I don’t think there was any physical harm done to the person. I think just hearing a couple of the stories from people here about their personal experiences might be enough to demonstrate that this is public shaming, which has been deemed cruel and unusual since colonial times. I was looking forward to being able to travel the world with the woman who stood beside me when I got out. It took her about a week to process what I had done but then she remembered she has known me since we were kids. Even went so far as to tell me she isn’t worried about me being around her daughters whatsoever. Now this is the latest in the string of things I have heard lately that make me wonder if it is fair to possibly subject her to this… I am “low risk” and can be done in ten.. but for the last week I have (stupidly) been reading story after story about the dangers that could possibly come from us being together.. and now I have to tell her that I cant travel to some of the places we have always talked about? Carnival in Brazil was a big one. After some research I don’t think there is a single county in South America that will allow me in. Want to go to the U.K.? Nope.. best bet is to fly into Spain and try to cross the border on land. If we have the constitutional right to travel then common sense would say that anything the government puts in place to hinder that is prima facia illegal.

        They of course will say it is not them, it is the countries in question but if it weren’t for this mark and the angel-whatever-the-hell then no country would even know to begin with (except for Canada and Australia because we share records and NCIC with them) I just… I am new to this. Caught my charges when I was 25 when going through a brutal divorce. Got addicted to porn, enough said. I did it, won’t deny it because I can’t regardless of whether the intent was there or not. As the DA told me, intent doesn’t matter in the slightest. Then I did 6 years. Now its 2-ish years of parole with good time. And I don’t know what the hell to do. Resources are non-existant and reading all the terrible stories scares the hell out of me. Even if they are isolated incidents that still means there is a possibility that some vigilante will hurt me, my fiancee, her (our) girls.. but it’s all for safety right? *rolls eyes*

        Sorry, I will put the pity-stick away now. It’s just that reading the IML makes me furious that lawmakers are blatantly allowing constitutional violations to be written into law. Either we ALL have rights or NONE of us do..why can’t they see that? And are they really so naive? Every single time a society has allowed a government to take away the rights of a group of people it NEVER stops at simply taking their rights. And it is only a matter of time before the group of undesirables grows beyond the original group.

        • Will Allen

          The people who support the Registries (Registry Terrorists (RTs)) and the subsequent travel ban are scumbags. They might even be stupid enough to think that their “laws” do something useful. Hard to believe, but they are stupid, stupid people. For me personally, I make sure that I structured my life so that I never do anything that conceivable do anything beneficial for an RT or his/her family. Those people are anti-American enemies to me. I always recommend that Registered People structure their lives to help and support people that they know are good and forget everyone else.

          You are right to believe that you, your fiancee, and her children are in mortal danger. People who are listed on the Registries really, really need to ensure that wherever they live is completely secure. By whatever means are necessary. If you live in a standalone home, you must surround it with walls. You must ensure that anyone who breaks into the property will be met with lethal force. Plan it and do it.

          People always say that we shouldn’t have Registries because they (and their harassment) will inevitably expand to entrap other people, even some “good” people. I don’t think that is a good argument at all. Most RTs don’t care what happens to other people. They lie that it’s “for the children” but obviously they don’t care about children. Most RTs don’t care about anything happening to anyone unless it is them. The U.S. is FULL of scumbags.

        • TS

          @J

          I would say let’s see where Millard in CO at the Tenth goes so we know which tine of the fork in the road is the one to take after it’s ruling. It is possible it could be applicable based upon principle, but I’d bet harm still needs to be documented as noted before.

    • AO

      @J – The courts have done a fine job of contorting themselves to get around every constitutional violation the registry as a whole is breaking. There are some states that label driver licenses like that. Even worse, some cities take out entire billboards to let people know and RC is in town. At the end, the courts say the registry and everything that goes with it isn’t “punishment” but a civil action that protects the public so it’s all okay. It’s really only in the last two or so years that more and more judges have actually stopped this stupid pretense and called a duck a duck. And because no DA wants to let it stand that the judge is actually following the constitution instead of what the public might think, they’re all being appealed and one or more is bound to head to SCOTUS. It may be a few more years, but I think the tied is turning on this whole thing. Some judges blatantly calling the registry Punishment and in Violation of the Constitution is very powerful and will only snow ball as each one is one more citation for future arguments.

  14. J

    @Will Allen

    I am going to live my life like that from now on because while I personally know quite a few RC’s who have never been harassed or messed with I will not take the chance. I was a marksman before and anything I did with a rifle can be done with a compound or crossbow. I will not take any chances. Even if it never actually happens I will always be prepared. You can do or say whatever you want about me. Come after my fiancee or our girls and I will put you in the ground. Not trying to sound macho, just plain facts. You don’t mess with someone I love because you read something online and without even knowing all the details make a decision that you will now be a secondary judge and enact your own punishment.

    As to things expanding to include people that are not RC’s.. It can very well happen. Historically speaking the moment a society grants a government the power to abolish the rights of a certain group deemed to be “undesirable” things never just stop there. Not to draw overly cataclysmic comparisons but the Jews started off with simple things being taken away. Then it was wearing a mark on their shirts and having that mark on their “papers”.. then it was kristallnacht.. eventually it was systematic destruction. And it was not just Jews, contrary to popular belief. It was jews, gypsies, “mentally unfit”, Perverts (homosexuals), and political dissidents along with some Christians as well. My point is that any time that a government is allowed to abolish the rights of one group they never stop there. Maybe I’m catastrophizing but how many everyday people out there would be perfectly fine with any and all RC’s being shot, regardless of the nature or seriousness of their crime. How hard do you think it would be to get them to support the same treatment of another group of people they are told are dangerous?

    @AO

    Your assessment is correct, they have indeed twisted in ways that would make a contortionist squirm in order to ignore the facts. I am curious to see what would happen if the states that have their registries tied to criminal statutes are challenged on the basis that you cannot call something a civil action if there are criminal statutes tied to it. I’m not a lawyer of course but consider this.. If you fail to register it is a felony that will get you more prison time (sometimes more than you got for the actual offense) so how is it that you call it a civil action? Someone out there who is a legal beagle correct me if I’m wrong here but a “civil action” by definition is not a criminal proceeding right? Then how is it that you have criminal statutes attached to something that is defined as not being criminal in nature? Or am I missing something? Like I said, I’m new to all this. My skin crawls when I hear RSO and even though I paid my debt I know it wont truly be done until I’m off the registry. If then..

    Despite the level of vitriol I see on the forums here (not that it isn’t justified mind you) I enjoy seeing that I’m not alone in this, that there are other people who have done and gone through what I’m going through now and they are still here. If they can do it so can I. I think the tide is indeed (slowly) turning. It’s not fast enough but it’s starting to. If we can just put this “frightening and high” BS and the static99 to bed once and for all we might stand a chance. As I said before I am eagerly awaiting the outcome in the Colorado ruling by judge Matsch. It may be limited scope at the moment but it has the potential of being big and every person who makes their living off our blood and by labeling us things we aren’t is in a panic. Good. Let the world see what vermin truly look like in the light of day. I pray to god that the (10th?) circuit upholds it. Typically I thought that unless the lower court “clearly erred in their ruling” the higher court would accept the outcome, barring any new revelations. Again, legal beagles out there, am I totally off base here?

  15. Worried in Wisconsin

    I’m in the process of obtaining a visa to spend a length of time abroad. Once issued, the visa will be affixed to my US passport. Not wanting them to put this hard-earned visa into a passport that will be revoked, I renewed early with the intention of getting a new passport with the IML marker. The country issuing the visa won’t care about the marking since they already know about my status. I paid the money and got the new passport this week. It did NOT have the IML marking.

    I made contact with the registration specialist here in SE Wisconsin looking for advice. She reached out to her contact with the US Marshal service about the passport issue.

    Here’s the reply from the US Marshal agent I received through the registration specialist:

    “I just got word on your guy that he is fine. The process to identify and mark all passports is going to be a slow process. Unless he is notified that he needs to get a new passport with the identifier, he is fine to utilize what he has. They are currently prioritizing the cases and doing those first. Hopefully this answers his question.”

    In other words, my new (unmarked) passport is valid, for now. Great. My guess is that what makes someone a priority is when they actually make use of their passport and travel abroad, so I will probably be good for one trip out of the country, and then I’ll have my new passport revoked after I return. And then I’ll have to apply for a duplicate visa. Oy.

    You’d think that sending ones passport in for renewal would get one prioritized, but apparently not. Looks like they’ll make this as difficult as possible, not necessarily intentionally but more likely due to their lack of ability to get the new system up to speed and to issue the proper passports.

    • David

      @ Worried in Wisconsin: I suspected the trigger for one’s passport being revoked is when the passport is actually used for a trip outside of the US. The use of the passport indicates to the State Department that you are someone who actually does travel internationally. (The State Department has very little incentive to revoke someone’s passport if it is never used and is simply gathers dust in a dresser or desk drawer.)

      • E

        I’m still most interested in hearing full travel reports of anyone who USES their new marked passport. Please report back if you are or are not permitted entry with the new passport!

      • TS

        @David

        They may not be concerned until the passport is used to travel internationally, but it can be used domestically as a second ID legally.

      • PK

        @David,

        The State Department could also be setting priorities in order to revoke Passports for certain RSO’s depending upon their Level.

        I haven’t really seen any report for the last month or so, of someone receiving the Passport Revocation Notification Letter.

        • NYLevel1

          It would be enormously helpful and enlightening for us all if we could be told for anyone traveling/passport revoked what your crime was-still on parole- still RSO- what level.

          This way we maybe can figure out what their method is

        • E @ PK

          Maybe those of us on this forum who travel internationally have already been revoked :). I have yet to apply for my scarlet letter but likely will. I have a business trip to Europe planned for this fall but really wanted to see a couple other guinnea pigs try out the new passport and report back before I take the plunge, even to Europe. The only report I’ve actually seen here was from RM in WI (I think I got that right) a few months ago, whose friend traveled with a marked passport and went through passport control with no issues at AMS.

        • Mike G

          @PK

          As you may recall, mine was one of the first revocations. My crime was touching a little girls chest at her request (CA 288(a) Lewd conduct with a minor under age 14) 24 years ago.

          Doubt I would be high on their seriousness list, but with this government, who knows?

        • PK

          @Mike G

          I think what happened to you made this real for everyone who participates in this forum.

  16. Hysteria

    If you are off registry, your passport is no longer marked.

    • R M

      So, the passport isn’t marked. But notices can and probably will still be sent.

    • TS

      @hysteria

      If you are on the registry, the passport does not necessarily receive the mark. Marking is all contingent upon the marking law and the offense.

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