A British high court has refused to extradite a former Orange County choir director who fled the U.S. before he was to stand trial on sexual abuse charges, ruling that a California involuntary commitment law would violate his human rights. Full Article
The US is not known for keeping it’s word, let alone respecting and honoring it’s own laws.
“The British judges said they will grant the extradition only on the condition that the U.S. government guarantees it would not subject Giese to a civil commitment.”
I think the British judges should reconsider the condition under which they are willing to send Giese back. I also think they should take a look at the chaotic unconstitutional laws under which Giese will be forced to live under until the day he dies. I believe these laws are also a violation of human rights.
Joe
Guest
October 22, 2015 9:31 am
I never did understand this…. first a guy is deemed mentally competent to commit a crime and is sentenced as such. Then, at the end of his term, he is deemed to be a mental defective and is held indefinitely due to this mental illness. When and where did he ‘acquire’ this defect? While incarcerated? Or did he have it all along – and would that not make him unfit to stand trial?
The European Court (not sure the exact name) ruled a few years ago that Civil Commitment AFTER sentencing violates Human Rights. If a person is to be held as a ‘patient’ after serving their sentence this is still possible, but it must be ordered at the original sentencing.
KangaroOCourt
Guest
October 22, 2015 1:13 pm
There’s gonna be a good number of orange curtain county teachers school personnel and within state heading across the Atlantic.
Sure been allot in the news where that sham registry DIDN’T prevent them teachers.
mike r
Guest
October 22, 2015 3:26 pm
YEAH I hope they never expedite him untill the public registry is abolished and only available to police like every other civilized country. There shouldn’t even be a registry but if they must then it should only be available to law enforcement. It’s cruel unusual arbitrary unreasonable oppressive retroactive punishment. Violates numerous human rights. To many to list.
G4Change
Guest
October 22, 2015 5:49 pm
I’m so glad that common sense is prevailing against the insane laws in this country. Even if it’s in a different country. The U.S. is becoming the laughing stock of the world. What a shame!
Avig
Guest
October 24, 2015 12:45 pm
Let’s try a slightly different approach. Do you realize that many Americans are required to register as the result of doing things that are perfectly legal in most of Europe?
I say: if is legal in Europe, it should be legal here as well. And if it legal over there, it is hardly a menace to society over here. These thoughts lead to the following: quite a few of these so-called offences are just minor issues: like “right turn on red”, or smoking marijuana. Legalize these things—–it is no longer legitimate to leave the laws as they are.
USA
Guest
October 24, 2015 1:32 pm
Wow, I’m in a little bit of a shock. I believe and strongly feel the registry is terrible, but I never once heard anyone address what he did? You guys just stated it violates human rights/it’s unconstitutional and so on? Although, what about the victim? The guy flat out lied to the boy and from what I’m reading, did some pretty bad things to him? I don’t know much about Civil Commitment ect, but this isn’t your run of the mill flasher ect. This man was put in a position of authority and clearly was out of control. I wouldn’t want him around my child. Now, you can click negative comments via my comment/respond anyway you desire, but facts are facts. I can only imagine how the boy provided this man blood, urine, stool and semen samples? Uh, how would any of you suggest rehabilitating this man if convicted? Would you allow him to continue teaching music? Working with children? Should he just get probation? Parole? Maybe we should just give him Summary Probation and tell him to be good? Counseling? I can only wonder how this 13 year old is doing. I welcome your negative comments and so on, but from what I’ve read, it sounds like your neither rational or taking any responsibility. Best wishes /that’s my opinion
mike r
Guest
October 24, 2015 10:42 pm
I agree USA this guy needs to be locked up. This just goes to show you how desensisized we have all become because of the draconian laws that have been levied against all of us. There needs to be justice and justice needs to be restorative and towards rehabilitation and retribution not just punishment. The fact that our gov. Has levied all these unjust laws against its citizens is the core of the European courts decision not to extradite I’m sure.
anonymously
Guest
October 24, 2015 11:59 pm
USA wrote “Wow, I’m in a little bit of a shock. I believe and strongly feel the registry is terrible, but I never once heard anyone address what he did? You guys just stated it violates human rights/it’s unconstitutional and so on? Although, what about the victim? The guy flat out lied to the boy and from what I’m reading, did some pretty bad things to him? ”
Right. Though the story is somewhat ambiguous, it appears to me that the abuse occurred from the ages of 13-17. The boy, as you call him, is now 21.
“I don’t know much about Civil Commitment ect, but this isn’t your run of the mill flasher ect. ”
Civil comittment used to require 2 separate victims for sexual assualt. Now I believe it’s only one victim required. The way things are going, it will be one time urinating on the side of the road perps being civilly committed eventually since the prison guards/mental hospital workers union always will want more hours for their guards/employees and a higher budget.
“This man was put in a position of authority and clearly was out of control. I wouldn’t want him around my child.”
Yes but who’s to say he is not already rehabilitated since this occurred 8 years ago. Let’s leave that judgement to the experts. I would think he would have a higher chance of being cured if he had had therapy, but then again John Walsh and Ted Nugent never had therapy either and a lot of people trust them around children. Well maybe not Nugent…
“Now, you can click negative comments via my comment/respond anyway you desire, but facts are facts.”
Facts are facts, but all we know is there were 19 charges filed. The boy was asked to provide bodily fluids. At age 17, I don’t see how he could have been fooled to think a choir director is really part of an elite military unit and that the military is hiring childen. And all this during the heyday of the reckoning for the Catholic Church scandal.
Jojo
Guest
October 25, 2015 10:04 pm
The victim is now so sacred. No need for the victim to prove the level of damage they claim. No need for any conflicting evidence to their claims to be weighed, just believe the victim as coached by the Victim Advocate. Restitution becomes extortion when the victim’s therapist cannot be contacted by the offender nor his/her attorney to obtain a treatment plan concerning the length of therapy.
USA
Guest
October 27, 2015 9:06 am
Wowwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!! You guys clearly fit the profile. I just read a few comments regarding the victim. One individual stated, “As per this victim, it’s irrelevant. Americans have this warped view that justice is about the victim. It isn’t, nor is it supposed to be. It’s about the accused.” Im speechless. You can argue this comment all day long, but 9/10 people would consider you to be blaming the victim and in some way its their fault. WOW. No pun intended, but the DA’s do try and attempt to portray them as helpless individuals, but in some ways they are! Children are victims. Im in shock. Go ahead and respond, but it is what it is. You have no one to blame but yourselves. Keep this tone up and somebody is going to read this and the laws wont be changed. Terrible
mike r
Guest
October 27, 2015 12:53 pm
USA are you for or against the registry? It sure seems like your pro registry. I agree with you that the real pedophiles and rapist should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. These laws are just so disproportionate and unjust that every body on here has suffered tremendously at the hands of our gov and the public that they may appear to be un emphatic for victims of crime. The worst of the worst offenders get locked up for life in almost every serious case so all the people on this site or the registry are mostly low level offenders. I bet there are very few true monsters on this site and only a fraction in the registry. Before you rant about how these people somehow deserve everything that’s happened to them or is happening or will happen to them in the future is ridiculous. Just because you feel the registry is the only thing keeping you from reoffending doesn’t mean that’s the norm because it isn’t. Youre not the norm you are the exception.
USA
Guest
October 27, 2015 3:50 pm
Wanderin, I completely agree with your comments 100%! I appreciate your intelligent and well thought out comment. I’m not sure what the others are talking about, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Glad you didn’t over analyze my comment. Best of luck to you. This war will only be won by thoughtful thinking!
mike r
Guest
October 27, 2015 4:19 pm
Agreed NPS if he needs a registry to keep him from reoffending then the phsycs should’ve seen this and he is the as you stated the one percent that needs civil commitment or life in prison untill he is deemed not a threat. I do actually believe in civil commitment for the worst of the worst or life in prison but not the draconian cruel shaming of a individual for the rest of their life while not protecting anyone or have any benefits for society other then keeping the very few like USA from reoffending. Hope he don’t have kids or grand kids
Timmr
Guest
October 27, 2015 4:30 pm
Hmmm. I don’t see the issue here as being the registry or what this guy did. Both of those are horrendous. The issue appears to be a sovereign country’s right to defend its own principles, codified in its laws, traditions and treaties, and not break those laws by sending an accused to a country where those principles will surely be undermined. Do you think this country would extradite a foreign citizen, no matter how horrendous the crime, if it knew the accused would surely have his head chopped off, for example as practiced in Saudi Arabia? Or would the US, signatory to the Geneva Convention, send a suspect to another country to be tortured, or imprisoned indefinitely without charge? — oh, right, we have done that. The capacity to operate on principle rather than the expediency of revenge, is that what USA doesn’t get?
mike r
Guest
October 27, 2015 4:36 pm
love your post wondering hits the nail right on the head. I was convicted of a chris hanson scenario or pretty close to it. I never had any long sexual conversations with underage girls and didn’t seek them out in chatrooms like the da or the courts claimed. needless to say most people would consider me a perv but you know what that was just a spare of the moment laps in judgement that never physically harmed anyone but myself and I learned from the mistake and after a lengthy prison sentence of over two and a half years and the three years of hell on parole and losing everything I owned and any chance of getting or keeping a decent job and over ten years without a chance of reoffending there is no way I ever would reoffend. The registry has 0 effect on rather I would reoffend 000000000. See unlike USA there most people learn from their mistakes and don’t need to be ridiculed and reminded or supervised for it for the rest of their lives.
mike r
Guest
October 27, 2015 4:40 pm
so what were you convicted of USA and why do you feel that the registry is necessary in order to keep you from reoffending. If your man enough to tell us im sure we would all like some insight into why you feel the way you do and you may even make us all reevaulueate or perspective abut the registry. Man up and explain yourself.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jojo
Guest
October 27, 2015 4:50 pm
This victim stuck around for his abuse for FOUR years, which begins to sound like it may have developed into a “consensual” relationship. Although we all know there is legally no such thing, it shows he wasn’t being forced or tortured. The DA promotes the idea of “specimen collections” to shock everyone, so my guess is it probably happened once as an initial deceitful ploy to cross boundaries. Terrible; but Correction and Rehabilitation should still be available to this offender, not Civil Commitment.
Admittedly, I am bitter about the DA spin on my own inappropriate relationship because she made it sound so heinous. However, I took full responsibility and voluntarily paid all therapy costs for my victim for 6 years, from age 17 to 23, (there was no court order requiring me to do so). During my abuse, he was age 15 to age 16; already in therapy for depression throughout the time of the offenses, as well as seeing a Shrink for medication. Taking the stand, the victim said I was responsible for his depression, and no one investigated the police report right in front of them which contradicted this information. Is that because Victim’s Word Rules? And who give the victim a template of exactly what to say, so that the punishment will be harshest? The Victim’s Advocate, who works for the DA. A Conflict of Interest.
As for my own rehabilitation, I am grateful to say that I picked-up my sons daily from High School for years without any attraction to teen boys, and I have many tools of recovery to use should I ever find myself attracted to anyone inappropriately.
mike r
Guest
October 27, 2015 4:54 pm
Oh and why are you even on this site if your pro registry?
USA
Guest
October 27, 2015 9:24 pm
Wow, its pretty sad to see how people completely know my business. NPS and Mike seem to know everything. For the record, I was arrested for 5 VERY serious felonies that didn’t involve a minor ect. ALL charges where dismissed and I plead non contest to a battery charge. wobbler. THereafter, the charged was reduced to a misdemeanor and expunged. Lastly, I received 5 years SUMMARY Probation. I’ve never had any issues like you guys prior or after. So, what else do you want to know? I imagine from reading your comments, you where convicted for something related to children? Man up, lets hear your story? Pretty intelligent to pick on people with similar issues rather than sticking together. Nice
USA
Guest
October 27, 2015 9:28 pm
Jo jo, I just read your statement. While I’am taken back by your story, it takes a man to admit his mistake. Good for you!!
Jojo
Guest
October 27, 2015 11:43 pm
I’m a woman.
USA
Guest
October 28, 2015 9:54 am
That’s even worst
mike r
Guest
October 28, 2015 1:04 pm
Well USA I told my story you just didn’t read it or chose to ignore it. Here’s the thing your right that we should stick together and whatever you did or didn’t do to land you on the registry is besides the point. It obviously wasn’t that bad or you would be in prison. The fact remains though that in previous post you stated that the registry was what kept you from reoffending so you feel that it is necessary in some ways. I guess all of us on here,all least I do, want to know why you feel its necessary and why do you thin you need this constant vigilance hanging over you’re head to keep you from re offending? I can see a need for supervision of the worst of the worst true pedophiles and rapist especially repeat offenders but that is just supervision for a certain amount of time until the are seen as not being a threat by real professionals that are not controlled by CDC or the state in any way. After a person has completed their supervision they should be able to be a free american again with ALL their rights restored ad even their criminal record should be private and only available to law enforcement for future prosecution if they decide to re offend. If we had a system like that then those who do go to prison upon completion of their supervision they would have a fighting chance to reintegrate back into society.
mike r
Guest
October 28, 2015 3:26 pm
Man jojo how can they even call what you did abuse if all you did was have sex with a young man. That’s every teen age boys dream to be suduced by a older female. I had plenty of relationships with older females when I was a teen and it was great.
The US is not known for keeping it’s word, let alone respecting and honoring it’s own laws.
“The British judges said they will grant the extradition only on the condition that the U.S. government guarantees it would not subject Giese to a civil commitment.”
I think the British judges should reconsider the condition under which they are willing to send Giese back. I also think they should take a look at the chaotic unconstitutional laws under which Giese will be forced to live under until the day he dies. I believe these laws are also a violation of human rights.
I never did understand this…. first a guy is deemed mentally competent to commit a crime and is sentenced as such. Then, at the end of his term, he is deemed to be a mental defective and is held indefinitely due to this mental illness. When and where did he ‘acquire’ this defect? While incarcerated? Or did he have it all along – and would that not make him unfit to stand trial?
The European Court (not sure the exact name) ruled a few years ago that Civil Commitment AFTER sentencing violates Human Rights. If a person is to be held as a ‘patient’ after serving their sentence this is still possible, but it must be ordered at the original sentencing.
There’s gonna be a good number of orange curtain county teachers school personnel and within state heading across the Atlantic.
Sure been allot in the news where that sham registry DIDN’T prevent them teachers.
YEAH I hope they never expedite him untill the public registry is abolished and only available to police like every other civilized country. There shouldn’t even be a registry but if they must then it should only be available to law enforcement. It’s cruel unusual arbitrary unreasonable oppressive retroactive punishment. Violates numerous human rights. To many to list.
I’m so glad that common sense is prevailing against the insane laws in this country. Even if it’s in a different country. The U.S. is becoming the laughing stock of the world. What a shame!
Let’s try a slightly different approach. Do you realize that many Americans are required to register as the result of doing things that are perfectly legal in most of Europe?
I say: if is legal in Europe, it should be legal here as well. And if it legal over there, it is hardly a menace to society over here. These thoughts lead to the following: quite a few of these so-called offences are just minor issues: like “right turn on red”, or smoking marijuana. Legalize these things—–it is no longer legitimate to leave the laws as they are.
Wow, I’m in a little bit of a shock. I believe and strongly feel the registry is terrible, but I never once heard anyone address what he did? You guys just stated it violates human rights/it’s unconstitutional and so on? Although, what about the victim? The guy flat out lied to the boy and from what I’m reading, did some pretty bad things to him? I don’t know much about Civil Commitment ect, but this isn’t your run of the mill flasher ect. This man was put in a position of authority and clearly was out of control. I wouldn’t want him around my child. Now, you can click negative comments via my comment/respond anyway you desire, but facts are facts. I can only imagine how the boy provided this man blood, urine, stool and semen samples? Uh, how would any of you suggest rehabilitating this man if convicted? Would you allow him to continue teaching music? Working with children? Should he just get probation? Parole? Maybe we should just give him Summary Probation and tell him to be good? Counseling? I can only wonder how this 13 year old is doing. I welcome your negative comments and so on, but from what I’ve read, it sounds like your neither rational or taking any responsibility. Best wishes /that’s my opinion
I agree USA this guy needs to be locked up. This just goes to show you how desensisized we have all become because of the draconian laws that have been levied against all of us. There needs to be justice and justice needs to be restorative and towards rehabilitation and retribution not just punishment. The fact that our gov. Has levied all these unjust laws against its citizens is the core of the European courts decision not to extradite I’m sure.
USA wrote “Wow, I’m in a little bit of a shock. I believe and strongly feel the registry is terrible, but I never once heard anyone address what he did? You guys just stated it violates human rights/it’s unconstitutional and so on? Although, what about the victim? The guy flat out lied to the boy and from what I’m reading, did some pretty bad things to him? ”
Right. Though the story is somewhat ambiguous, it appears to me that the abuse occurred from the ages of 13-17. The boy, as you call him, is now 21.
“I don’t know much about Civil Commitment ect, but this isn’t your run of the mill flasher ect. ”
Civil comittment used to require 2 separate victims for sexual assualt. Now I believe it’s only one victim required. The way things are going, it will be one time urinating on the side of the road perps being civilly committed eventually since the prison guards/mental hospital workers union always will want more hours for their guards/employees and a higher budget.
“This man was put in a position of authority and clearly was out of control. I wouldn’t want him around my child.”
Yes but who’s to say he is not already rehabilitated since this occurred 8 years ago. Let’s leave that judgement to the experts. I would think he would have a higher chance of being cured if he had had therapy, but then again John Walsh and Ted Nugent never had therapy either and a lot of people trust them around children. Well maybe not Nugent…
“Now, you can click negative comments via my comment/respond anyway you desire, but facts are facts.”
Facts are facts, but all we know is there were 19 charges filed. The boy was asked to provide bodily fluids. At age 17, I don’t see how he could have been fooled to think a choir director is really part of an elite military unit and that the military is hiring childen. And all this during the heyday of the reckoning for the Catholic Church scandal.
The victim is now so sacred. No need for the victim to prove the level of damage they claim. No need for any conflicting evidence to their claims to be weighed, just believe the victim as coached by the Victim Advocate. Restitution becomes extortion when the victim’s therapist cannot be contacted by the offender nor his/her attorney to obtain a treatment plan concerning the length of therapy.
Wowwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!! You guys clearly fit the profile. I just read a few comments regarding the victim. One individual stated, “As per this victim, it’s irrelevant. Americans have this warped view that justice is about the victim. It isn’t, nor is it supposed to be. It’s about the accused.” Im speechless. You can argue this comment all day long, but 9/10 people would consider you to be blaming the victim and in some way its their fault. WOW. No pun intended, but the DA’s do try and attempt to portray them as helpless individuals, but in some ways they are! Children are victims. Im in shock. Go ahead and respond, but it is what it is. You have no one to blame but yourselves. Keep this tone up and somebody is going to read this and the laws wont be changed. Terrible
USA are you for or against the registry? It sure seems like your pro registry. I agree with you that the real pedophiles and rapist should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. These laws are just so disproportionate and unjust that every body on here has suffered tremendously at the hands of our gov and the public that they may appear to be un emphatic for victims of crime. The worst of the worst offenders get locked up for life in almost every serious case so all the people on this site or the registry are mostly low level offenders. I bet there are very few true monsters on this site and only a fraction in the registry. Before you rant about how these people somehow deserve everything that’s happened to them or is happening or will happen to them in the future is ridiculous. Just because you feel the registry is the only thing keeping you from reoffending doesn’t mean that’s the norm because it isn’t. Youre not the norm you are the exception.
Wanderin, I completely agree with your comments 100%! I appreciate your intelligent and well thought out comment. I’m not sure what the others are talking about, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Glad you didn’t over analyze my comment. Best of luck to you. This war will only be won by thoughtful thinking!
Agreed NPS if he needs a registry to keep him from reoffending then the phsycs should’ve seen this and he is the as you stated the one percent that needs civil commitment or life in prison untill he is deemed not a threat. I do actually believe in civil commitment for the worst of the worst or life in prison but not the draconian cruel shaming of a individual for the rest of their life while not protecting anyone or have any benefits for society other then keeping the very few like USA from reoffending. Hope he don’t have kids or grand kids
Hmmm. I don’t see the issue here as being the registry or what this guy did. Both of those are horrendous. The issue appears to be a sovereign country’s right to defend its own principles, codified in its laws, traditions and treaties, and not break those laws by sending an accused to a country where those principles will surely be undermined. Do you think this country would extradite a foreign citizen, no matter how horrendous the crime, if it knew the accused would surely have his head chopped off, for example as practiced in Saudi Arabia? Or would the US, signatory to the Geneva Convention, send a suspect to another country to be tortured, or imprisoned indefinitely without charge? — oh, right, we have done that. The capacity to operate on principle rather than the expediency of revenge, is that what USA doesn’t get?
love your post wondering hits the nail right on the head. I was convicted of a chris hanson scenario or pretty close to it. I never had any long sexual conversations with underage girls and didn’t seek them out in chatrooms like the da or the courts claimed. needless to say most people would consider me a perv but you know what that was just a spare of the moment laps in judgement that never physically harmed anyone but myself and I learned from the mistake and after a lengthy prison sentence of over two and a half years and the three years of hell on parole and losing everything I owned and any chance of getting or keeping a decent job and over ten years without a chance of reoffending there is no way I ever would reoffend. The registry has 0 effect on rather I would reoffend 000000000. See unlike USA there most people learn from their mistakes and don’t need to be ridiculed and reminded or supervised for it for the rest of their lives.
so what were you convicted of USA and why do you feel that the registry is necessary in order to keep you from reoffending. If your man enough to tell us im sure we would all like some insight into why you feel the way you do and you may even make us all reevaulueate or perspective abut the registry. Man up and explain yourself.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This victim stuck around for his abuse for FOUR years, which begins to sound like it may have developed into a “consensual” relationship. Although we all know there is legally no such thing, it shows he wasn’t being forced or tortured. The DA promotes the idea of “specimen collections” to shock everyone, so my guess is it probably happened once as an initial deceitful ploy to cross boundaries. Terrible; but Correction and Rehabilitation should still be available to this offender, not Civil Commitment.
Admittedly, I am bitter about the DA spin on my own inappropriate relationship because she made it sound so heinous. However, I took full responsibility and voluntarily paid all therapy costs for my victim for 6 years, from age 17 to 23, (there was no court order requiring me to do so). During my abuse, he was age 15 to age 16; already in therapy for depression throughout the time of the offenses, as well as seeing a Shrink for medication. Taking the stand, the victim said I was responsible for his depression, and no one investigated the police report right in front of them which contradicted this information. Is that because Victim’s Word Rules? And who give the victim a template of exactly what to say, so that the punishment will be harshest? The Victim’s Advocate, who works for the DA. A Conflict of Interest.
As for my own rehabilitation, I am grateful to say that I picked-up my sons daily from High School for years without any attraction to teen boys, and I have many tools of recovery to use should I ever find myself attracted to anyone inappropriately.
Oh and why are you even on this site if your pro registry?
Wow, its pretty sad to see how people completely know my business. NPS and Mike seem to know everything. For the record, I was arrested for 5 VERY serious felonies that didn’t involve a minor ect. ALL charges where dismissed and I plead non contest to a battery charge. wobbler. THereafter, the charged was reduced to a misdemeanor and expunged. Lastly, I received 5 years SUMMARY Probation. I’ve never had any issues like you guys prior or after. So, what else do you want to know? I imagine from reading your comments, you where convicted for something related to children? Man up, lets hear your story? Pretty intelligent to pick on people with similar issues rather than sticking together. Nice
Jo jo, I just read your statement. While I’am taken back by your story, it takes a man to admit his mistake. Good for you!!
I’m a woman.
That’s even worst
Well USA I told my story you just didn’t read it or chose to ignore it. Here’s the thing your right that we should stick together and whatever you did or didn’t do to land you on the registry is besides the point. It obviously wasn’t that bad or you would be in prison. The fact remains though that in previous post you stated that the registry was what kept you from reoffending so you feel that it is necessary in some ways. I guess all of us on here,all least I do, want to know why you feel its necessary and why do you thin you need this constant vigilance hanging over you’re head to keep you from re offending? I can see a need for supervision of the worst of the worst true pedophiles and rapist especially repeat offenders but that is just supervision for a certain amount of time until the are seen as not being a threat by real professionals that are not controlled by CDC or the state in any way. After a person has completed their supervision they should be able to be a free american again with ALL their rights restored ad even their criminal record should be private and only available to law enforcement for future prosecution if they decide to re offend. If we had a system like that then those who do go to prison upon completion of their supervision they would have a fighting chance to reintegrate back into society.
Man jojo how can they even call what you did abuse if all you did was have sex with a young man. That’s every teen age boys dream to be suduced by a older female. I had plenty of relationships with older females when I was a teen and it was great.