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ACSOL’s Online EPIC Conference: Empowered People Inspiring Change Sept 17-18, 2021

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International Travel 2021

This post is intended as a place for discussions about International Travel ONLY.

For more information and previous discussions on the topic, please see International Travel 2020 and International Travel 2019.

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Passport Update

As mentioned months ago, I got the dreaded passport revocation letter from the State Department back in October. I finally made contact with someone in the passport office where my passport was issued just 2 years ago to find out what went wrong when my previous passport was issued and why it didn’t have the required IML marking. I was told that the Angel Watch Office simply hasn’t caught up and that yes, I’d have to pay full cost to get a replacement with the marking now.

I applied in October 2020 for a new passport with the IML marking. After a minor kerfuffle about my photo not being current, I received my new passport this week. Given that all passports processing is slow right now due to Covid things took about as long as expected. The only difference is the notification on pg. 27. Yes, it’s obnoxious that it’s there, but at least the notification is not in bold red letters on the main page.

My new passport came with the usual notification that my ID documents and current passport would be returned in a separate mailing in about 10 days, so I don’t know at this time if I’ll actually get my old passport returned to me. I applied for this new one before my visa fastened in my passport expired, so hopefully I will get it back. But, since the visa in my passport expired during the time they were processing it, perhaps not. Even though it’s expired, having the old one will make it easier to renew. We’ll see how that goes.

A couple of things I learned along the way which may be helpful to others. I am not an attorney and all this is based on what I learned talking with passport office staff so please do your own research.

1) If you have any type of visa or entry permit in your current passport which has not expired, and you know that you will be required to have the IML stamp, you should consider applying for a new passport BEFORE you get the revocation letter. According to the passport office website FAQs, if you apply for a new passport while your passport is valid and before it’s revoked, you should get your current passport returned to you once it’s cancelled. This will enable you to still have the visa to use on future trips.

2) If you are sending your passport for early renewal because you know that you’ll eventually be revoked, you MUST include a letter specifically stating that you need the IML marking to get it in your passport. Otherwise, it’s likely that you’ll just get another regular passport issued like I did and have to go through this all over again. Don’t assume that your name is on the list for the IML marking until you get the letter. Angel Watch is going through the list very slowly and if you need a marked passport you should consider just getting it now so you don’t get stuck with a revoked passport in the future.

3) If you have a ‘live’ visa or other type of entry permit in your passport right now and want to get it back after you renewed your passport, you MUST specifically request it. Apparently it’s possible to make this request even if you receive the revocation letter but there is no guarantee. I know that they make it sound like you won’t get your passport returned to you, but after speaking to the staff that actually processes them it appears that they have a mechanism for returning the passport if it contains a live visa. They couldn’t guarantee it will happen in every case, but I was told that for there to be a chance you must request it.

4) The revocation letter instructs you to immediately return your passport to the address they provide and then to make an in-person appointment to apply for a new passport. After speaking with the passport office I was told to return my current passport with the application for a new one along with a letter about needing the passport returned to me due to the live visa in it. If you don’t have a visa or other document inside your passport that you need back, then this wouldn’t apply to you.

5) The visa that I have for entry overseas was issued with full disclosure of my registration status. I went through a lengthy legal process to get the visa so that they couldn’t later on claim that I’d hidden my status. For this reason, I don’t foresee any difficulty arising from having the IML stamp on pg. 27. Had I not disclosed this, things would likely be different. If I ever try to gain entry into another country, I also don’t foresee the IML marking making any real difference – countries that care about it already have the information and will likely make the same decision based on what I’ve experienced.

Hope this helps someone else. If I left anything out, let me know. And no, I won’t go into any detail on the specific visa/entry permit which I obtained other than to say you’re much better off hiring an attorney in the country you are asking to issue you a visa.

@ Worried in WI:. Sorry to say, I certainly did not get my unmarked old passport back again. I have not heard of anyone who received their revoked passport back again.

@David
They sent my unmarked passport back with 2 holes punched in it.

@ ML in CA: Curious. 🤔 Was that a revoked passport that you had returned to you?? And did the new passport you receive have an IML unique identifier on it??

If you received a revocation letter, SOP is for them to not return the old passport. The only exception appears to be if there is a ‘live’ visa in the old passport, and even then only if you specifically request it be returned. There is no guarantee though, and since they have to do extra work to return it I can see how it won’t always happen.

If you send in a passport for early renewal, before it’s revoked, then you should get it back as a matter of SOP. Of course, in this situation you have to specifically request an IML-compliant passport or you’ll be back to square one again.

In my situation, when they initially receive my application the visa and entry permit in my old passport were still live and thus should qualify for it to be returned, but since they expired in the covid-related delays in processing I have no idea whether I’ll actually get it back or not. Just in case, I’ve already contacted my attorney overseas to begin the process of getting my new passport number registered with my file there and in getting my visa & entry permit reinstated. With covid, things are slow all around the world right now and I assume that there are going to be thousands of people in many countries having similar problems to sort out once international travel fully opens in the future.

@Worried, did you engage in travel that causes the revocation or was it revoked with no travel? I think it’s been established here generally that it doesn’t get revoked unless you engage in travel first so I’m wondering if that still holds true or not.

@David and Worried in W
“If you send in a passport for early renewal, before it’s revoked, then you should get it back as a matter of SOP. Of course, in this situation you have to specifically request an IML-compliant passport.”
That’s what I did as I was trying to go overseas to work and didn’t want it to be revoked while I wasn’t in the US.

They sent my passport back to me also, with holes punched in it.

How is it not a lawsuit that they are making you pay twice for the same thing a non RSO would only pay for once, and it’s their fault they sent the wrong one out to begin with.

Janice how is this not apart of the lawsuit under illegal fines and a violation of equal protection? Any further challenges on IML?

That is not the only issue. They are cancelling passports in violation of the Due Process clause of the Constitution.

I believe that a good case could be made against charging us for a new passport when it is their fault that the wrong one was issued the first time. However, it seems that the law is on their side at this point.

The problem is laws are assumed to be legal until challenged in court.

Everyone wants to know when the new process of violation human rights in IML will start ( second punishment, freedom traveling and other issues)

– I renewal my expired passport on Feb 24th at a post office with a written statement self-identifying as subject to IML. 😔
– Received the new passport on March 19th (no express service) 😲
– Of course NO marking!! 😠
– Called the passport information number 877-487-2778 (2 minute of wait) On the 19th.
– Explained the problem to the first CS agent, very friendly, then he transferred me to another CS agent and explained the problem again, another friendly service.
– He told me that he will send a “note” to the Seattle passport service center (nearest to CA), and asked them to contact me via phone or email.
– I asked if I have to pay again for the correction, he said “no”. 🤞
– Monday, the 22nd received a call from the Seattle passport center, regarding my issue. Explained the problem again, and the agent was also very friendly.
– She told me that she will research my status and send me a “revocation letter” and will invalidate the new unmarked passport.
– Wednesday, the 24th received an email from the Seattle passport center CS Manager with a letter stating that since the self-identifying letter has been lost before the case was properly adjudicated, which resulted in issuance of passport without the endorsement. And nicely asked me to mail back the passport to them WITH a written signed statement and they will expeditiously process a new passport book with the marking and without fees.

Update:

  • Mailed the passport back on the 25th
  • Received the new marked passport on 4/9

Thank you for taking the time to explain those issues.

I get off probation in 5 months. Will apply for my passport then. My charge. State felony 3rd sexual exploitation of a minor. Well $1500 later and another court hearing, Just got clarification from a 2nd federal judge and have an order that states “this offense is not an offense against a minor.” The order says that word for word and is signed by a superior court judge(two judges agree). Gonna try and apply for the passport and see if I get the stamp or not. Hoping with that order I might actually get to avoid it. I’ll update again come early July.

I hear what you’re saying, but the decision on whether or not you get the IML passport will depend on what the Angel Watch Office decides and not on what the judge stated in your case. I believe that they go on a number of factors, including the specific charge and the statute you were convicted of. If the statute is on their list, it may not matter what the judge said, but it might give you cause for future action against them.

You were probably right. But I got to at least try. I mostly got the order so that those stupid premise restrictions here in North Carolina wouldn’t apply to me. That way I can take my daughter to the park if there’s no ordinance. Or to a museum or to the movies, Hell even just pick her up from daycare. I do have a question though. If your name is removed from the registry after your tenure., And you apply for a passport, will they still stamp it?

Couple of thoughts…

1) The rules for registration and state rules for sex crimes re: residency restrictions are not the same as the rules for who qualifies for an IML passport. There are specific rules that they go by, even when they conflict with specific state rules for similar things. Read up on what convictions IML considers triggering convictions for a passport.

2) Your conviction can be one which triggers the IML passport, but you still might initially receive a passport without the IML marking. This is even more likely if your case was fairly recent or if the Angel Watch office hasn’t gotten to your file yet. If you apply for a passport and receive a non-marked passport, that doesn’t mean you won’t receive a revocation letter at some point in the future once your file comes up.

3) My suggestion? Do the research yourself and find out if your conviction qualifies as a triggering conviction for IML. If so, it won’t matter what comments the judge made or what he wrote in the final judgement. If the Angel Watch office decides that the particular statute you were convicted of violating triggers an IML passport you run the risk of having your passport revoked in the future. In my opinion, it’s better to do the research and know where you stand up front.

You make it all sound so legitimate, sensible, and useful. Good stuff.

Personally, I’ll call them Satan Watch all the time. They deserve contempt and disrespect.

Our big governments are clearly too big and have way too many resources. Let’s take it from them.

You take power from the wasteful and abusive government via two ways:

1) USE Cryptocurrencies, which is not government money; it’s the people’s money.

2) Vote for candidates who promote SMALL GOVERNMENT.

.. And of course donations to lawsuits that challenge the abusive laws.

That’s it.

On an emotional level I can see you point. As a matter of trying to provide information for others in a similar situation it doesn’t really help though. I’ve tried to keep my comments in this conversation as much on the facts and things I’ve observed in an attempt to help others maneuver this maze, not to make an editorial statement. There are lots of other places to do that outside of a thread trying to help people carry on with life in whatever way possible at this time. Hopefully at a point in the near future threads like this will not be necessary.

…and like a cancer, big government feeds only itself. Also, like cancer, it won’t stop growing until it has killed its host. That is how serious we should view the way our current system operates.

Since to be a covered sex offender requires that conviction of an offense against a minor, I would believe that if a judge says specifically in an order that it is not against a minor then it can not be considered against a minor for the purposes of this law. Angel Watch might consider this to be against a minor without some level of proof to the contrary and revoke a passport and require a stamp in it but I would think you could use the mechanism as required in IML to dispute inaccurate information based on the Judge’s order to have a new determination that your passport shouldn’t be stamped.

@ Anklebiter: I would guess that your first passport will not include any IML unique identifier. It’s my belief that they only revoke a registrants passport when it has actually been used for international travel. It is actually travel that triggers the revocation.
So I suspect that you will get a passport without an identifier on it. You can use that to travel internationally for a couple trips before you receive the revocation letter. That is what I suspect will happen. Thanks is what happened to me.
(I believe it is impractical for DOS to revoke every passport issued to every sex offender if 80% of them never use it for travel. They only want to focus on those who actually do travel internationally.)

My opinion is that’s its more nefarious. Most countries require the VISA holder to also hold a valid passport.

You travel, get a VISA. Two months later your passport get revoked, other country revoked VISA, and you’re back in the USA in a flash.

I couldn’t think of a better way to screw an SO.

I think you give them too much credit. To have some type of nefarious plan would require the ability to coordinate a complicated plan of action across multiple offices in multiple places. They can barely accomplish the most basic task of issuing a passport, let alone put together a coordinated plan.

I travel several times with an unmarked passport, before the passport was finally revoked two months after my return from a trip. So far, there’s been no indication of anyone having their passport revoked mid-trip while in a foreign country. Please speak from personal experience, not from conjecture.

That’s what I thought as well, but it was about 9 months after 4th trip over three years before I got a revocation letter.

According to what I was told by the person I spoke to at the passport office who works with the IML passports, it has much more to do with when your case file gets processed by Angel Watch than anything else. Once Angel Watch adds you to the list, you’ll get an IML passport.

If you know you will eventually be on the list, it might be worth just asking for one rather than waiting to be revoked. Unless of course you want to be without a passport for a few months while you go through the process of getting the correct one.

@M C

I had traveled overseas four times in a three year period of time with no problems. The last two times I arrived at the immigration desk on the other end though it was apparent that my passport was on their watch list, apparently as a result of the notification sent over by the USA.

From my conversations with the Passport Office it seems that the revocation is not triggered solely by using your passport for international travel. That may start the process sooner for some, but it’s not until the Angel Watch Office actually does the leg work to confirm you meet their qualifications do you get added to the list. What it sounded like to me is that they are slowly working through all the names on the various state registries one by one inspecting each to determine if an IML passport is in order.

After each of my trips overseas I fully expected to get a letter from the State Department, but mine was almost nine months after my most recent return to the USA.

Perhaps at the beginning of the IML process the revocation letters were more closely connected with an overseas trip, but it didn’t seem to be the case for me.

My suggestion for anyone that qualifies for an IML passport who intends to travel out of the USA is to get your passport renewed early with a letter specifically asking for the IML passport. Lots easier to do this as a normal renewal on your own schedule than to have it revoked and have to apply for a new passport. When you apply for a new passport you cannot use your passport as proof of citizenship since it’s been revoked and is no longer valid, and you have to obtain original/certified document(s). Plus, doing it on your own means you are unlikely to get revoked at a time that interferes with your travel plans.

Has anyone been able to travel for vacation to Mexico?

This subject has been covered too many times here. Mexico does NOT allow registrants to enter. If you somehow get in ( car trip, private plane, etc) and are asked, you will be detained and deported. Look on the matrix of countries. It covers all of this. Asking 400 times will not change the answer.

I question as to the accuracy of this Travel Matrix.

My gut feeling is that it is out-of-date and it probably hasn’t been maintained in a while.

@JohnOK, its based on reports provided by people who have attempted travel to those places because that is the only way to find out so its only going to be as accurate as those reporting it. Additionally, when someone attempts entry to a country, is turned away, and reports it so it can be added to the matrix other people are not likely to attempt entry because they do not want to spend money only to be turned around on the next plane home. So unless someone (maybe you?) wants to spend money to try, against what is advised by the matrix, so that they can update it, the information is not likely to be updated often.

Additionally COVID-19 has in many cases virtually halted travel or slowed it way down to all of the countries on the matrix. This is going to make update even less likely.

Mexico is a special case though. There has been lots of even recent information about Mexico so attempting entry would probably not yield a positive result. When it comes to Mexico, there is also pending legal action in Mexico courts because such denial of entry is probably unconstitutional under the Mexican Constitution. I’m sure this action is still proceeding but that Covid-19 has halted or at least slowed this process. Eventually I think there will be allowed entry to Mexico but you are going to have to wait awhile.

@MC
“When it comes to Mexico, there is also pending legal action in Mexico courts because such denial of entry is probably unconstitutional under the Mexican Constitution. I’m sure this action is still proceeding but that Covid-19 has halted or at least slowed this process”

How do you know there is pending legal action in Mexico?

@MC

“its based on reports provided by people who have attempted travel to those places because that is the only way to find out so its only going to be as accurate as those reporting it.”

I understand what the RTAG Matrix is for- my contention is that it hasn’t been updated since October 2020.

Remember that RSO Registration laws are subject to change. That being said, just because a Registrant was allowed entry into (Italy for example) in October 2020, that doth not mean that everything is still the same in 2021, especially in light of the fact that the pandemic started after October 2020.

@JohnOK

John, appreciate you voicing your gut feeling. Question to you, what can be done about that?

The travel matrix is updated by that source when they deem fit, but not sure there is any means to force them to do it any other way.

Everyone would benefit from any ideas on how to improve and distribute information on travel. That said to my awareness the information on domestic and international travel has been done by organizations and individuals working as advocates for people forced to register.

Also, I guessing it was a typo or an oversight, but for clarity the pandemic started in late 2019 and early 2020. For example California started its statewide shut down in March 2020. If memory serves me correctly the trouble in Wuhan China started in December 2019.

@JohnOKvThere was an RTAG conference call about this prior to the Pandemic.

@Interested

Question to you, what can be done about that?

I think they could probably create a form on this website where people can simply submit their information. Then the Matrix could just be a reflection of this data. My guess is that it would need to be moderated in some way.

@JohnOK

I am also suprised that:
NO RSO has been denied entry in ANY Country since October 2020.

Needless to say, with all of the new changes that are going on including Covid, one would definitely need to plan very carefully, any international travel to ANY destination.

The RTAG Matrix is definitely a good starting point, but since there have been no reports in such a long period of time, I question as to whether this source is up-to-date.

I would definitely recommend extreme caution. In my view, I think that registration requirements are becoming more strict worldwide with even more registration schemes coming online.

You are correct, the safest way is to ask the consular office of the country you want to visit and they will tell you where they stand. Some one went to El Salvador and was sent back on the next flight. But could be just that particular immigration officer.

unless you are no longer register in the USA or you are a Mexican citizen you will not get in to Mexico

Don’t even try, forget about Mexico and Canada forever. You will be sent back right from the airport and you will lose a lot of money from airline tickets and hotel. I’ve read that you wont have a problem traveling to most of Europe, except England.

Received the second mailing from the US Passport Office today with the proof of citizenship they were returning to me.

Not in the envelop? My old passport – the one with the expired visa and entry permit for overseas.

This is not totally surprising, as I was told the only circumstance under which they normally return a revoked passport is if it contains a live visa. Since mine expired before my new one was issued I was only mildly hopeful I’d get it back. Good thing I have a copy of the visa and entry permit, as they might come in handy when I return to get them renewed.

Now the work begins having my attorney overseas file the necessary paperwork to get my new passport number linked to my file there, and once the borders open up after Covid I hope to be able to make arrangements to go back and have my visa/permit renewed. Will probably take a while, as there are certainly thousands of others who also got stuck on the wrong side of the border when things shut down due to Covid. At least this is a ‘normal’ immigration problem shared by many and not one due to my status as a RSO.

Lesson to anyone else holding a visa – apply for a new IML passport before revocation if you want any hope of getting the old one returned.

All good stuff. But until someone tries we really don’t know what Hitler watch will do in each situation. Im curious as to if you get off the registry.. while having a iml passport, can you get a new on without the stamp? Because if it’s based off conviction… Than it seems like that the stamp would remain.

@Anklbitter

If memory serves correctly the IML has 2 triggers and both must be met for the stamp. 1) a conviction for a crime against a child and 2) myopic have to be required to register.

That said I don’t remember if anyone who has been relieved of bing forced register has applied for a passport and reported back.

Technically, they should not have the stamp, but we all know how accurate and timely government bureaucracies are at working in our favor.

This coming July my duty to register in the state of Washington expires (10 years after conviction). I should be considered a tier I Offender under federal SORNA, due to my offense being a misdemeanor (less than a year possible jail sentence). After I confirm I am off the list in Washington, I plan to reapply for a new passport. My current one is expired and I’m trying to avoid the “stamp”. Will report back on that later this fall.

Has anyone else been relieved from the requirement to register and then applied for a passport? I believe the statute only allows for those who are required to register (covered offender) as defined by 22 U.S. Code § 212b – Unique passport identifiers for covered sex offenders:

1) the term “covered sex offender” means an individual who— (A) is a sex offender, as defined in section 21503(f) of title 34 ; and (B) is currently required to register under the sex offender registration program of any jurisdiction;

I assume if SORNA requires registration, it applies even if the state you live in does not. Not sure about that. But since my duty under both state & federal law should expire this summer, my passport should be clean. Will find out.

If you have a passport stamp and are relieved of the registration requirement under both federal and state laws, I think you should have Angel Watch do a re-determination of your status before applying for new passport. It seems the state department receives this information from Angel Watch and once it’s placed on the passport, I’m sure they don’t stop putting it on unless Angel Watch tells them that they determined this is no longer required.

Also, as we have discussed before, the marking in the passport and being green noticed are two totally separate things. The green notice can be sent even without the passport marking requirement and the green notice seems to be a larger barrier to travel than the passport marking. Its well established that nobody really looks for the passport marking at least not yet.

Will the recently proposed changes to SORNA affect your premise?

@MC
“The green notice can be sent even without the passport marking requirement and the green notice seems to be a larger barrier to travel than the passport marking.”

I have yet to see an instance where someone was denied entry or refused travel based on an Interpol Green Notice. However there have been 1000’s of people being denied entry based on the Notice that Angel Watch sends. These are completely different types of notices or alerts.

I’m guessing that you were not referring to the Interpol Green Notice.

@PK

1000s? Source for that beyond what has been shared here and other similar websites? It is possible and plausible on the angel watch notice being sent but definitely should be documented so it can be used in the fight, especially when it comes to risk assessments and travel. I think Rep Smith (NJ) has shared previously data of those turned back in Thailand. Thx.

@PK,

I’m not sure what you are saying. While Angel Watch may use other means to notify in some circumstances, its been well established that their primary means of notification to a foreign county of travel is the interpol green notice and people have been turned away based solely on the green notice.

In any case, my point was that the barrier to international travel seems to be more often whatever notice Angel Watch sends and not the passport marking. In all cases I’m aware of nobody even looks for the passport markings.

So, to be clear and concise here, with an actual answer and no assumptions, is the only way that Satan Watch does their thing is if you had a conviction with a minor? Is that the only trigger? My “crime” was against my then wife(now ex) and I “pantsed” her. But it was military so I don’t know if that would trigger them or not. There was no minor involved in mine and I only spent about 3 months in the brig. So that being said, there are many of us here that didn’t get a conviction involving a minor, that are also looking for answers. I applied for my passport last year before all the COVID crap and nothing. I want to travel and want to know if I will be flagged immediately or not, due to the Satan Watch folks. Thanks in advance!! God Bless you all and stay safe out there!!

IML states specifically that passports with a unique identifier are for individuals who have been convicted of a sexual offense involving a minor.

Not that you’d necessarily want to, but I believe you can contact the Angel Watch office and ask you you’re on the list.

@jim

Per the information you posted, you should not get the mark in your passport.

That said, if you are required to register you might still run into problems. Many nations have agreements with the US and have access to criminal records and what not.

If I were in your shoes and wanting to travel there are a couple things to consider. First what are the laws for the country you intend to travel, and also what your conviction would mean in terms of their review.

It’s definitely frustrating trying to travel internationally with any record, but with a any crime related to sex there seems to be additional hurdles.

Also, if you specific locations or regions you are interested in traveling to you can post the question about the region/location and see if anyone has experience there.

Good luck and hopefully happy travels

Thanks to you all. I was looking at possibly traveling down to Colombia to visit a friend of mine or to Italy to see Venice. I live in Nevada so I think that I have to do the 21 day B.S. I want to thank you all for your reply’s. I will try and travel eventually, but I am getting let go from my job, funding not my status, and I will try and use my G.I. Bill, which is another whole thing being not only a vet with benefits, but an RSO going to college is going to be fun(sarcasm intended). I was thinking about being able to use my G.I. bill overseas to go to school somewhere else other than the judgmental people of our sh*thole country. But Thanks again for all the help. When I do travel, I will give a full update on here and the Travel Matrix page. Be safe all and stay strong!!!

Got my passport months ago, no identifiers. Havent attempted a trip but am off the registry and have a romeo juliet case. Thinking will not have a problem with it.

You will find out once you land. No one here can answer your question.

I left the U.S. on February 9th of 2019, and won’t return for another 9 years, when New York State will remove my requirement to register. I was awarded a Level One classification by a NYS Superior Court Judge, which allows me to be removed from the registry 20 years after my release from prison, in my Federal CP Case.

My advice to everyone who has passed the 10 years mark of their conviction, apply for residency in Germany or Sweden. The European Parliament in Brussels passed a law that states that you are to be considered rehabilitated once you pass that period of 10 years without sexually reoffending!

Hey Camo,

Your advice is extremely solid and gives a lot of hope.
I cannot find the law, however.

Do you by any chance know the law that was passed by the European Parliament?

Also- are you currently living in Germany on a TRP, with a work Permit, 10 years after your conviction?

Apologies for the questions- your news is potentially and literally life-saving and I’m sure many of us want proof of such statements.

Thank you sir.

@CAMO

Will you cite the source of the parliament decision for all here to read please with a link to it? Thx.

“Green Notice” vs. IML Passport Marking

I believe that you guys are correct – out of my four recent trips overseas, all were made with no marking on my passport. On one of those trips (before I had the entry visa) they clearly had a red flag on my passport in their system and nearly didn’t let me in.

I’m not sure, but it’s my understanding that the Green Notices will be sent for everyone on their list, not just those who qualify for an IML passport.

Does anyone have specifics on who they send a Green Notice out for?

The Green Notices are not “sent” so much as they are continuously available to any INTERPOL participating country (pretty much all countries) and alert officials when you arrive. They are distinct from “Angel’s Watch” notifications which are sent individually to countries “Registrant” is planning to visit which is facilitated by “Registrants” filing an IML intention of travel. There’s plenty of redundancy built into this system which makes getting refused entry that much more likely.

I’ve completely given up on travel and have just resigned myself to never getting out of this goddamned country again. I won’t even bother to renew my long-expired passport. Why on Earth would I carry their message for them? They’ve got it completely stitched-up.

I consider that the U.S. has, effectively, barred us from travel without having to say so.

Good explanation/clarification.

I’d still suggest traveling if you want to. There are places you can go without issue. Takes research to make it happen smoothly.

Oh, I’ve done all that research, as anyone who has been here as long as I have can attest. I wrote the very first warning about the not-yet-named IML a number of years before it became law. Many thought I was exaggerating or worrying too much but everything I feared has come to pass, and more. Every year prior to that Chris Smith and his allies in the Senate would trot-out their boogeyman legislation and make incendiary and willfully mendacious statements about “pedophiles” in international travel and I wrote about each of these attempts and knew that someday they would likely succeed. It took both Houses flipping to the Republicans to get it done but it finally happened.

So, I do consider that we HAVE been forbidden to travel by our government. By making us jump through impossible, flaming procedural hoops they have absolutely forbidden us to travel. Saying that we have those procedures and then utterly stacking the deck against us (like sending notices to foreign officials telling them we are travelling to their country to rape their children) is proof-positive that we are being forbidden to leave.

Europe, long a holdout, is about to bolt the door to those of us it considers to have been locked-up too long and will be joining virtually all of Asia and much of Central and South America. So, please tell me where I can go because I’m not seeing too much. I could get in one, last trip to Europe before they bar the gate, I suppose but I’m way too pissed at them to enjoy the trip. It’s too close to being American now, anyway.

Oh, and even parts of Africa have jumped on board, such as Morocco. Won’t be going back there.

@Notorious D.I.K.ennerly

What are you talking about with regard to the EU? Do you have a specific link with information or policy change?

Unless there is something else I am unaware of, I’m presuming Notorious is talking about ETIAS:

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/smart-borders/etias_en

(This is an official EU website).

While I too am somewhat worried about ETIAS, on the basis of what I understand (and I do not claim to be an expert), I think it may be premature to be too pessimistic about it. Unfortunately, until the system is either actually up or closer to being up, we probably will not know much more, but my understanding is that one must disclose certain “serious crimes” committed within the last 10 years. While I have not been able to find a legally precise definition of “serious crime” for this purpose (it may be impossible to have one due to jurisdictional differences), most lists of such serious offenses include “rape”/”sexual assault” and “child sexual exploitation.”

Now, as we are well aware, the latter is especially vague. It could mean “any sexual offense involving, directly or indirectly, (a) minor(s)”, or it could mean a narrower class of offenses. Even if we assume the broadest possible meaning, my understanding is that disclosing such an offense, as well as pinging one of the relevant database checks, means your application will be reviewed manually – it is not automatic denial. The goal does not seem to be to substantially alter admissions policies per se, but rather to fill in cracks in information. The question, of course, is whether that will lead in practice to substantially different admissions decisions. One could think of the problem as: how much of registrants getting into Schengen was simply a matter of lack of information?

One reason I have for cautious optimism is that it does not seem travelers from SORNA-compliant states, such that the destination country definitely knows you are coming due to the 21-day notice, have been being turned away from Schengen, suggesting that it may not just be a lack of information allowing registrants to “slip through” who would otherwise be denied. However, again, we probably won’t know until the system is either closer to launch or is operational, so I am worried by the uncertainty.

I will be talking to some EU immigration lawyers I know about this closer to the rollout.

My research leads me to believe that there may be an issue for entry if there is a sex crime against a child and the person was sentenced to an incarceration period over two years unless a period of 10 years has elapsed after the incarceration without a subsequent offense. If you fall under that category it’s would still not necessarily a complete bar to entry though but it would certainly make it more difficult. Obviously in the end we will have to wait to see how this actually applies.

When I went to Germany, I was stopped and questioned, but allowed to proceed on my way after explaining I had a decades old conviction. They were actually surprised the Us sent them something for such an old conviction.

I keep tabs and have e-mailed Steven (U.S. who went to Germany, now seeking Asylum). To verify much of what he has stated, I paid to talk to a German Immigration attorney. She stated that the offenses are subject to expulsion from Germany and to not lie to cover them up (automatic ban). However, due to the fact they are nearly 20-years old, it would likely not be a bar from entry or obtaining a residence permit.

If convicted in Germany, sex offenses are automatically expunged (“spent”) after 20-years and cannot be used against a person. However, a foreign conviction can be considered when deciding to issue a residence/work VISA; but, the age of the conviction is a mitigating factor. Also, no subsequent convictions of any type also helps.

German law requires that they consider all the circumstances of a case. If I were to get denied a VISA I could file a claim against it, and based on the circumstances, would likely succeed. Key is the passage of time and the completion of any treatment offered or ordered in the U.S. and any other mitigating circumstances.

Also, she stated that not all jobs in Germany require a Letter of Good Conduct.

Western Europe is regularly mentioned as wide open and easy to enter, but does anyone know of a situation where someone was refused entry into countries like Germany, France, Italy, or others in the area?

I have been planning a big trip over there for the summer of 2022 and I know I overthink things, but wonder if it matters which country I fly into. Everyone mentions Germany, but it would be easier based on some of the loose plans I have to enter France, Spain, or Italy. For any of these countries, does it make sense to contact them in advance about my upcoming entry? Thanks for any feedback.

@ pnwso: A couple years ago, my flight landing at CDG airport in Paris was met by a contingent of French police who very briefly detained me because, according to documents I received from a FOIA Request*, it appears that USDOJ mistakenly sent them notification that I was a fugitive. This was quickly cleared up (in approx. 20 minutes) and I was soon released, actually making it out of the airport before many of the other individuals on my flight (as the police were kind enough to expedite me right through the passport checkpoints to the baggage claim area.) 🇨🇵 Viva la France! 🇨🇵🤗

*FOIA Request for information about one’s self have a different official name, but, at the moment, I don’t recall what that documented is titled.

(Bear in mind, that France does not have a legal age of consent law. They are only now in the process of considering one to be set at 15 years old. This is partially due to a number of high profile rape, incest and child molestation cases currently in the French news.)

Thanks for the replies David.

Am I overthinking when I am entertaining the idea of booking my intended flight – let’s say to Paris and because of the possibility of being sent back, also booking a fully refundable flight 1 week later to Berlin and turning 21+ day notices in for both of them. That way, if I am rejected on my first attempt to Paris I won’t have to come back, book a new flight at a higher price, wait 21 days and then try again. I will have a specific time window and want to make sure it happens. This way, I will only have a 1 week wait the second time. My assumption is that a rejection in one place has no bearing on the likelihood of rejection in a second location. Thanks.

@ pnwso: I would be extremely surprised if you were turned back by French authorities. I have not heard of that happening to anyone. It’s certainly your prerogative to also book a flight to Berlin, but I would suggest it may be a waste of your money. But definitely do submit your paperwork at least 21 days in advance…. preferably 30 days in advance. (I believe it was a snafu in my paperwork that caused the Green Notice system to generate an email containing the word “fugitive”.)
Personally, I never feel more free and more at home than when I’m in France.🇨🇵

My usual “port of entry” is Schiphol Amsterdam. Never had any problems 8 trips in 10 years. I’ve flown out of France once during that time. I’ve always felt having lots of the same countries stamps in my passport would help when ETIAS is implemented.

I don’t know if COVID has cooled tourism overseas to the point where they would be more discriminating, but I traveled in 2019 to France and had no issues at all, going or coming from Paris. I did get flagged with the “X”, for screening at a different line at customs in the US, but I think that is the standard procedure for those who have to provide notification of travel under IML.

I did similar research before going on my trip and the consensus I found on these forums is that France has not turned back individuals from entering. I had a great trip and never felt I was having to walk on eggshells over there like I do over here when traveling. Not being in danger of accidentally violating some vague SO law (tripwire) made the trip so much more enjoyable. I’d much prefer to travel to Europe than anyplace here in the US.

This news report suggests that ETIAS will not actually go into effect until early 2023:
EU Reporter: #ETIAS visa waiver postponed until 2022.
https://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2020/04/08/etias-visa-waiver-postponed-until-2022/

@ pnwso: One more thing: I strongly recommend that you take direct flights to wherever you’re going. If you have to have switch flights or switch planes in a foreign country or even just briefly stop over in a foreign country, be absolutely certain that that country will not turn you back. (I lost a cost of a round trip ticket to France because I could not get confirmation from Irish authorities that I would not be turned back on a brief layover at Dublin Airport. Personally, I avoid the national airlines of countries where you’re likely to be turned back, such as Aer Lingus [Ireland] and Air Canada because many of them have stopovers in their home countries where you could be turned back.)
Good luck and enjoy wonderful Europe!!

(P. S.: I do have an IML-marked passport, but no one has ever bothered to look at that IML notification in it.)

Thanks for the great replies. Makes me feel better, at least for now. My conviction is only 10 years old and I used to read here that around 10 yrs is the magic number now I’m seeing 20. My original plan was to spend the entire summer over there (2022) before the new visa changes go into effect and that still is my plan, but more and more I find myself entertaining the idea of just trying to stay in the region and do the “country dance” moving along to Albania, Georgia, and maybe others before returning to the Schengen zone. The end goal is to find a way to stay over there in some capacity without returning to the US unless absolutely necessary. Just have to find a way to bring in some income. Searches for remote jobs haven’t panned out and I don’t believe teaching English to adults is even an option, but still looking into it.

10 years could be the magic number, but that could also depend in some cases, on the type of conviction that you have.

Do I have to give the IML 21 day notice when not living in US. If I am able to find a way to successfully live outside the US, even if I can’t find a permanent residency situation, but do successfully move around from country to country to comply with tourist visa requirements, what happens when I return to the US for a short stay? If I am still required to register if residing in the US, but don’t currently appear on any registries because I live outside the US, what is required if I return to visit people in a few different locations and don’t trigger any visitor registration thresholds? For my return trip back to wherever (outside the US) I can only notify a state if I am currently registered. Most likely, I would have scheduled my return trip while outside the US for my planned 2-week stay. What happens when I am boarding a plane to depart the US, but haven’t notified anyone, as there is no one to notify?

Example: Depart state A for France having notified state A 21 days in advance of my planned departure and intention to not return to the US. State A takes me off the registry since they don’t keep registrants on permanently. 1 year later, buy round trip ticket from France to NY and back to France (or wherever) for a 2-week stay. I fly into NY, drive to various states and don’t trigger any visitor registrations, then drive back to NY to depart.

That’s the million dollar question.

See, Nichols v. United States, 136 S. Ct. 1113, 194 L. Ed. 2d 324 (2016)

You likely will have to formally deregister prior to leaving. If you give 21-day notice, which includes an itinerary with a return date but you don’t return, you’ll likely get hit with Federal FTR. On top of the itinerary information, they also want an address or contact information. If you leave and fail to register in the state you left, without “deregistering,” when your annual (or six-month) time frame comes up, you’ll likely get hit with Federal FTR. SCOTUS did make clear in Nichols that SORNA does not extend past the jurisdictional borders of the U.S., so as long as you “deregister,” give the 21-day notice, and don’t come back into the U.S. or its territories, SORNA cannot attach to you.

How would SORNA “attach” to him if he does not live in the United States and returns for a visit? He would only have to ensure that he does not stay too long and/or work and/or go to school in any state to trigger the requirement to register. As long as he visits the United States and does not trigger any state registration requirement I do not see how anything of SORNA would come in play.

SORNA would attach the moment he sets foot back inside US jurisdiction (meaning any of the territories and possessions, too). Being Federal law, SORNA’s applicability is independent of any State laws or registration requirements, so even if he dodges the registration periods at the State levels, SORNA looms.

@ pnwso: This may help with your question. When I fill out my 21-day notification, I only provide the city names where I’m staying (not a hotel name and address, not a VRBO street address, etc) – never a specific address. So, for example, I simply write “Paris, France’ or “Montpellier, France”. That has, apparently, been satisfactory because I’ve never gotten into any difficulties putting just the city name.
(But, who knows? Maybe it has not been a problem because I am not in a SORNA-compliant state, so it’s almost more of a courtesy on my part that I submit to them my 21-day advance travel notification. So, for that reason, maybe DOS/U.S. Marshals are not terribly picky about the details on my 21-day notices. 🤷🏻‍♂️)
My apologies for the long-winded answers, but I try to be as clear and detailed as possible.

@David, et al,

The travel notification you provide appears to be in line with what the SMART office says is required regardless of SORNA or Non-SORNA state: https://smart.ojp.gov/sorna/notice-international-travel

However, “information about any intermediate stops” could be the catch all statement they’d use where they go looking for more specific details than just the places as you mention. Not saying you are wrong. Just thinking from their side for their “intent”.

My standard replies to them would be either, “I’m unsure which hotel/youth hostel I will use” and/or “I don’t have the information for the RV I will be using.”

Maybe not mention the “youth” hostel? Always an attention-getter! 🙂

@D.I.K:
Touché!

I can kind of answer this, I haven’t been on here in a while since I’m still waiting to hear from my lawyer.

First, please don’t fly to NY. If they force you to register you could get stuck in it for life as they do not remove you after moving out of the state.

When you leave the country, tell them you are moving to the other country with the intent of not returning.(I left with a round trip ticket which I later cancelled the return flight for) Normal states like Michigan will remove you from their registry.

Once you are listed as living overseas your photo and information will no longer be on the federal website. It will just list a bunch of blanks saying you don’t live in the US (this is if you are stuck on a registry in a state like NY, FL, or WI.) if you aren’t on one of those states registry after you leave your name won’t even show up there.

Unlike your plan I opted to move to the Far East where my spouse is from. My visa application didn’t require a background check or ask about convictions as is the case with many countries in the area.

When I get the chance to apply for permanent residence they will require one but this is on a local level.

From what I can say about where I am at currently, the travel matrix by Rtag is wrong.

The US sent their notice and I was still allowed entry. The only things that would bar entry would be is if you are currently on parole/probation, are a fugitive, have a drug conviction, or just look like you’re gonna do something illegal.

When going through immigration here, a big red flag is if you have a lot of exposed skin or aren’t wearing a collared shirt.

I have lived here peacefully for almost 5 years without any issues other than worrying about the US changing the rules and revoking my passport out of nowhere.

When I renewed it here I received my new one in a week. They handed me back my old one after I submitted the papers with two holes punched in the information page.

Like I said in the beginning I’m still waiting to hear back from my lawyer about getting my name off the NY registry as my original conviction wasn’t even from NY and I got stuck on there when I had moved there for work.

I probably won’t be on here for another long while as I have a lot of stuff going on over here. Hopefully I was able to answer some of your questions and not raise any new ones.

Please don’t ask what countries you can try to move to that will let you stay over here.

I married for love and got lucky even though getting PR here is more of a pipe dream that can take up to 30 years to get if you’re lucky.

What I can say though is if it were the next country over I could have gotten citizenship in 5 years and just sit on the beach drinking Bintang or asam jawa(whatever floats your boat)

Glad to hear things seem to be working out, there. I know the country and it does have some really good points but a few others that are less salutary. Did your new passport get stamped with the mark of Cain?

P.S. I’ve drunk a lot of Bintang over the years! It is a delightful country just one with some really, really scary aspects but, in all my travels, I’ve yet to find the perfect place. Everywhere seems to be simultaneously wonderful and awful. With age, I am beginning to accept the glass half-full.

Has anyone on here attempted to get a criminal rehabilitation from the Canadian government to allow entry to their country? I spoke with a Canadian Attorney this afternoon to see if its possible. just looking for some input before I put out $3,000 for their services as well as the $770 to the Canadian government.

I tried this 8 years ago and it was shot down. I came to understand that, while Canadian lawyers will take your money to process the paperwork, the Canadian government will not approve a crim rehab application for anyone with a sex offense. I was particularly pissed to learn the Canadian bureaucrat who denied my application did so right here in LA at their consulate. “So that b*** gets to live in my country enjoying the fruits if my tax dollars while she denies the opportunity to live in her country? The gaul!” But I digress…
Before spending the money, ask the potential attorney for references of others with similar convictions they successfully helped migrate to Canada. My attorney promised me references and never produced them. I’m happy to provide his name to you, however. 😉
Good luck!

Leroy… I made an inquiry about five years ago and spoke with an attorney in Montreal and he told me that it was about $2000… At that time. That is for a permanent residency permit and I also know that there is a temporary residency permit that can be had and I believe it last for three years and it’s noticeably cheaper. When I spoke to some of the officers on the Canadian side in Windsor Ontario they told me that there shouldn’t be any problem at all because my case is 30 years old. I was going to do more checking to see if I could find an attorney closer than Montreal but just haven’t made the attempt yet. You do have to have a reason, like family living in Canada or that you have a job in Canada.

Thank you for your comments, I’ll definitely be doing more investigation into the possibility of travel north before I actually hire an Attorney. Travel to Canada is a two fold mission for me. One: I promised my wife and kids before my arrest that We would make the drive through Canada to Alaska to show them the beauty of it all.
Two: I advocate for R.C.’s rights at a local level, and am looking to establish other precedence such as getting permission to enter Canada. Back before I had learned of the existence of Janice and ACSOL, I worked with a local Attorney recommended by my S.O.T.P. Councilor to convince probation and the courts that Residency restrictions applied to parolees, not probationers. That got me back home with my family after 3 years of supporting two households. After that I worked out a plan with my son’s school Superintendent to be able to attend parent teacher conferences, concerts, and even allowed my Wife and I to help teach a parenting for young adults workshop on the school campus.
Currently, I am working on a training program to help people in the local S.O.T.P Learn a trade to help them make it through Treatment and then life post treatment. I watched too many people trying to make it through this being kicked out for lack of payment.. almost myself before I started getting accepted back into the community after I was released. We all do what we can do to help each other keep going.

@leroy: When applying for rehabilitation status under Canada’s Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, a simple form is used. I didn’t use an attorney, but it if you hire one that works near the immigration office they can easily check on its status and ensure it doesn’t get buried. An attorney shouldn’t cost more than $1,000. If approved, the effect is you are no longer described in A36(1)(b) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act because of the conviction. If you’re young and achieve enough points, you and your family can immigrate for free. If you’re old or otherwise don’t qualify with points you can buy a business and employ a citizen for 1 year to qualify as a permanent resident. The minimum investment needed is $200k for most areas and $100k for rural regions in the cold north.

They also grant asylum to Americans escaping sex offender persecution. Canada granted asylum to families during the “Wenatchee Witch Hunt” in the 1990’s where a rogue detective went on an accusation spree and got people convicted of fabricated child sex offenses. They also granted asylum to a bail-jumper from Florida who had sex with her son’s minor friend. They’re not liberal, just not evil. Once admitted, there are no laws that require you to report to police. Personally I don’t assert my civil rights in every instance. It’s easy to comply with reasonable requests from local police. They are simply nervous and want to keep their jobs. The freedom and respect you and your family will experience is immeasurable.

Very interesting. How sad that decent countries have to offer asylum to Americans. But America is a special kind of stupid, as we’ve all seen even more clearly in recent years. American “exceptionalism” is not good.

In America, it is not possible to respect law enforcement. It would be great to live somewhere where a person could.

I like the “They’re not liberal, just not evil” statement. Registry Supporters/Terrorists are evil. Probably the best label for them.

Leroy:
I am originally from Detroit just a couple of miles from the bridge and have traveled to Canada for more than 50 years. Any criminal conviction, including a DUI, is a no go. You have made the first step by contacting an attorney in Canada. Make sure you have an attorney that specializes in immigration because Canada is difficult but not impossible for registrants.
If you travel to Canada prior to your attorney telling you so, you will be turned away and make obtaining residency more difficult. Wait until your attorney tells you to travel to Canada before you go.
The upside to Canada is that they have already granted political asylum to some registrants. This has been done for several registrants who have had consensual sex with 16 or 17 year olds because the age of consent in Canada is 16 and canadiens don’t view this as a crime. Under 16 is a totally different ball game. As a general rule if your conviction is more than 10 years past, you stand a chance.

Green Card and worried

I’m a RSO, currently on supervised release. I was convicted of posession of CP, got 5 years, but was never deported. I never gave up my passport(Irish) and when I was released, I renewed it by mail. So I have a new foreign passport. Can I travel on it without any problems? I’m planning on leaving the US for good, and don’t want to have any trouble with getting stopped when traveling.

@IrishResident,

You will need to give the required travel notice so you don’t get arrested trying to leave. You might also find that notification of your travel is sent to wherever you go even your country of citizenship which may have its own set of implications. Also, though you don’t plan to come back you may never be able to. Once you aren’t subject to travel notices you should find travel easier otherwise.

I was planning on leaving once my supervised release was complete. As for notice of travel, probably go to France first then go to Ireland from there on my Irish passport. So if I tried to travel without giving travel notice, my passport won’t flag, but would my name?

All international flight passenger lists are screened by Department of State, Department of Justice, Homeland Security, U.S. Marshals Service…. In other words, the federal government.

Satan Watch will know when you fly to France, whether you give notice or not. Satan Watch usually sends notice to your first international destination, but normally France wouldn’t care. So I would do what you say, but give your 21-day notice to avoid that possible 10 year federal sentence for violating IML.

I’m not sure you can while on supervised release. That would be absconding, maybe?

Otherwise, be sure to reregister in your state. Failure will be a new felony.

Also, give 21 day notice.

Or, go to your consulate and see if you can’t get out under some protection as an Irish citizen.

I’ll give the 21 days notice and leave. Once I’m I’m there, I’m done with the USA. Never returning here, so there’s no reregistering as I’m not in the US any more.

Hello! Does anyone know about current rules/laws for Portugal? Seems like a great place to move to but I’m having trouble getting current info about SO laws.

Portugal is part of the schengen and you should be fine. Do it. I did France, Germany. Croatia, Bosnia and Czech Republic…no issues.

Just read that Belize is now the first Caribbean county accepting US visitors who have had the vaccine, which my wife and I have. The RTAG matrix says Y/N on admission and has this puzzling note “May be turned away, expect to be interrogated.” Anyone know what that means or have any recent personal experience? Thanks.

Well, I was going to Belize in Jan 2019. The travel matrix said they did not turn away SO. However, 2 days before I was to leave, the airline called and said they were refunding the money for my ticket because the Belize govt contacted them (airlines) and said I would not be allowed in.

I emailed my experience to the matrix site and that might be why it’s saying may be turned away now.

Good luck and post your experience, I’d like to try Belize again.

Belize is part of the British Monarchy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belize Gov’t & Politics section). Thus, it would not most likely allow people forced to register in the USA w/in their border because of that tie (even if they are they own independent country). Not sure if any other British tied to country allows people forced to register in the USA within their borders. However, if you are going to attempt anyway, best wishes for a successful attempt.

@TS:
Slight correction: Belize (nee British Honduras) is not part of the British Monarchy. It became an independent nation in 1981. It is, however, still part of the British Commonwealth and is a British Protectorate (i.e. the Brits will defend them if needed). That all said, they do seem to follow in the footsteps of the mothership, just like all the rest of the current and former (US, Canada, Australia, etc) children.

My comment is about nearby Guatemala, the only country south of the US border that shows any signs of hope in the travel matrix. Does anyone have updated thoughts or experiences related to Guatemala? Many years ago before my trouble I went to one South American country and Costa Rica 3 times and always imagined I would spend more time down that way in the future.

If anyone thinks our government or any government doesn’t know where you go or private information about you, watch some of Snowdens videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFCtCySYzCTd7PyOVVo2oiQ/videos

I love this place. So many good people and great ideas and there is always something to learn. I just went back and reread this entire thread and sometimes it is just overwhelming. My conviction was 8.5 years ago and I served 6 and now have 6 months left on probation. Some of the posts mention that if you served more than 2 years there could be problems with entry, even into Europe. Also not quite 10 years has passed, although currently my international travel plans will be next year – almost 10 years since my conviction. So many questions: Do I apply for my passport now and just request the mark? No need to rehash the details of the IML stamp since it is covered so well at the top of this page. My plans are very uncertain and I may try to go over to western Europe and travel around for 90 days and then go to low cost countries in the region (Albania, Georgia, Bulgaria, Romania, and others) on a new tourist visa. I won’t make any return plans, but if I don’t get the IML stamp there is the chance that at some point I get notice that my passport has been revoked and I have to return to the US immediately without notice and I don’t want that to happen.

Now I am once again entertaining the idea of a ‘test’ trip 6 months before my open ended trip in the summer of 2022. If my test trip goes well,, then I would just plan to fly back there – Amsterdam or Paris. I don’t want anything to impact my summer trip and have lots of anxiety thinking ahead to that.

You can get into Europe just fine. My conviction was 21 years ago and I was incarcerated a little under 7 years. I’ve been to Europe, so yes, you can go.

Hi,

I am helping a friend in CA to research countries where we might be able to get a second passport / residency. I have not tried to travel yet on my unmarked passport but recently, my friend was turned away from Costa Rica. He had been there numerous times without trouble but a new person in the police department took his information. She claimed to have to notify the FBI. I thought the locals just submitted info to CA department of Justice. Either way, he was held in detention for several days until he could buy a second return ticket, as the first was several weeks away.

Are there any success stories that I can share with my friend or resources or suggestions?

Thanks.
JD

@JD
My opinion follows:
If your friend has lots of money to invest, >$100,000 maybe, a good lawyer could get him residency in a number of countries, but passports usually require citizenship, which is much more difficult, and would limit him to a few small third-world countries.
If your friend’s conviction was a long time ago, and didn’t involve much jail or prison time, his conviction could be considered “spent” by many countries, so maybe $10,000 to invest could open more doors. I know Portugal is happy to have immigrants come and invest, though they cater more to people from the UK. Many RCs have been successful in getting residency in Germany, but I don’t know about citizenship.
Personally, I like the island of Madeira. They seem happy to have immigrants and were very friendly when I spent several days there.

Someone posted here late last year about Turkey, which was never on my radar until I read his posts. 250k investment in real estate qualifies you. I am now quite interested in that, but can’t spend the money anytime soon. I would love to hear more on this option if anyone has any info

Wasn’t sure if this was posted previously, so I apologize if it was. I was researching the ETIAS that is supposed to go into affect in Europe in a couple of years. I came across this page which clearly states that one would have report their conviction ONLY if it occurred in the last 10 years. Their may be something in Europe believing in second chances, and the ability for one to get their life back. I keep hearing it, but have a hard time getting my head around it after dealing with this country’s hate for so long.

https://www.etias.us/security-questions-in-the-etias-form/

If that is what they plan to ask, then I will have just crossed the 10 year mark a few months before the end of 22. Hopefully the fine print won’t say – “or released from incarceration within that time frame” like many employers do. It does say they check various databases during the application so they will probably know everything anyway

To all those asking all the redundant questions concerning , what country allows, who responds to notices, and what about after my removal. You need to realize that these are all questions that have variables based on your offense, how long since your conviction, and ultimately YOU as a person.
I have a relative in Thailand that has spoken to people about my return. With letters of reference from a nationals and people stateside, a formal request for a hearing by immigration services there, and a good Thai Lawyer who understands the national customs,Thai law and can articulate my situation, I have been told I will not have an issue.
My offense is a tier 1 internet misdemeanor and I will be able to petition in a couple of yrs. This is the only offense I have ever incurred. I lived in Thailand for many yrs. without so much as a traffic violation. I speak the language well. I have family and made friends, both professionally and personally. This seems to carry weight with their justice system.
I am feeling good about my chances of returning “home”. I am simply waiting for my time on registry to terminate so that I have nothing hanging over me from a legal standpoint.
Where ever you intend to go, especially if you are looking to reside there, show the country that you are serious. Learn the language, learn the laws and customs. Do your research and hire an in country attorney. Don’t just go knocking on the door and say, “Hi, mind if I hang here, because I hate my country”. These places have their own problems and aren’t looking to have America’s metaphorical trash thrown on their door step.

I yield my time……….

If it pleases your honors, the travel advocate makes valid points. As prosecutor of nothing at all, I motion for my own dismissal as well as any pending charges of xenophobia. 🙄🤪

I really don’t know where to start with this. I disagree almost completely with your first paragraph, but I am very hopeful that your return to Thailand will be successful – it appears that you have all your ducks in a row.

The questions may be redundant “concerning what country allows, who responds to notices, and what about after my removal”, but sadly, they have VERY LITTLE to do with your offense, how long since your conviction, and YOU as a person.

I think the problem is, we are talking about two different things. You want to return to live in Thailand, the rest of us just want to visit. Reading between the lines, I have to assume that you were refused entry at some point, otherwise I don’t see the need for letters of reference, lawyers, etc., or maybe you are just being over cautious.

I also have strong ties to Thailand. My wife was born and raised there. She graduated from Thammasat University, then came to the US on a full scholarship, and got her Masters degree here. Most of her large family is still in Thailand. My daughter has a Thai passport, and she taught English at a private school in Bangkok for a year and a half. My brother lived full time in Thailand for 8 years. Now, he owns a home near Bangkok, and lives there 2-3 months per year.

I was shocked 3 years ago when I was denied entry into Thailand. The Thai officials, who were waiting for me as we got off the airplane, were actually quite friendly, but basically said that in good conscience, they couldn’t let me into the country after receiving the letter from Satan Watch. They showed me the letter, and I have to admit, if all I knew about me was the slanderous, over the top, misinformation that was in that 5-page letter, I wouldn’t have let me in, either. The officials said they may let me in if there was a US Government official who would vouch for me, but it was 7pm on a Friday evening, and I had no idea who I could call. So, they set me up on a flight leaving Bangkok 2 hours later (actually, the same plane we came in on), let my wife go to the airport lobby to meet her waiting family and exchange gifts, and let me wander around the airport by myself until the flight left (I managed to eat at the Burger King).

We had planned to be in Thailand for over 3 weeks, including side trips to Malaysia and Angor Wat, but it all came to an end based on one letter from an organization engaged in a competition to see how many US registrants they can prevent from entering foreign countries (they give awards to the countries who reject the most registrants). We lost thousands of dollars from non-refundable airplane tickets and tours.

We had visited several countries before this denial, including Mexico, China, and Egypt, and we have visited over 40 countries since then. The bottom line is, if you are only going to visit, the only factors that really matter are whether Satan Watch sends a warning letter, and whether the receiving country wants to use that as a basis for denying you entry. And soon the new factor, if some of us are lucky enough to get off the registry in the next year or so, is whether Satan Watch will continue to send the letters based solely on our convictions, and not whether we are registered.

Only if you are planning to move to a foreign country will factors like your offense, how long ago it occurred, if people will write letters of reference, whether you speak the language, whether you find a good lawyer, etc. make a difference.

I guess I got off point a bit. Apologies.

Is there anyone here that is a RSO and a Green Card holder? Trying to figure out about deportations and travel on a non US passport

I think if you have a felony conviction and you are a green card holder, you are facing possible if not probable deportation and being blacklisted from entering U.S. properties.

I’m already in the US, and ICE decided to remove my detainer before I was released from prison. No explanation. But yes, I do live in fear of getting picked up by them. That’s way I’m leaving for Europe as soon as I can

One possible good thing, and that is if you aren’t British or Aussie, then you have a great chance of getting your life back and leaving this behind you.

That’s right. I’m not a Brit, so that’s all I’ll say on that 🙂 Just 2 more years of supervised release and I’m gone. Unless ICE comes to get me first

I traveled to Europe in 2019 and have never received a letter with revocation although I fall within the rules for it. Now, I live in Illinois a non-SORNA state where our police will not accept 21 day notices. But, I’m worried that somehow my passport passport has been revoked because of my travel and I didn’t get the letter. I’m planning another trip to Europe this summer, now that things are opening upon, and I’m afraid I may arrive and be told by customs that my passport is not valid. Does anyone know how I can check the current validity of my passport — a website or phone number?

I tried this, and it appears it’s for people who have applied for a passport, not for those who currently have one.

There is a phone number that appears as you step through the form. You can call and ask questions

I’m still on probation, so I can’t go yet anyway. And if I did go overseas, I would never set my foot again on any country that has a Future Crimes policy like the registry.

Not everywhere prevents international travel while on probation. When I was on probation, though that was many years ago now, and prior to IML, I was able to travel internationally, which I did multiple times with no issues aside from the secondary screening upon return. I even had no issues getting into the UK both while on probation and while off but still on the registry as late as 2010. The last time I traveled internationally was in 2012 though simply because I am much busier than I was prior to 2012 and just don’t have time. I may try go again soon though but it will be a Schengen country because that’s where I prefer to travel anyway.

While I haven’t been on a registry since mid-2010, according to what I hear there’s a good possibility I would still have a green notice sent and be denied entry. Problem is I have no idea what, if any notices would be sent to a receiving country about me.

If you need to verify whether your US passport has been cancelled or revoked, contact the State Department by calling the National Passport Information Center at 877-487-2778. If you’re leaving in a few days for international travel and need to resolve passport issues, you should call the phone number listed on Notice CP 508C. If you already have a US passport, you can use your passport until you’re notified by the State Department that it’s taking action to revoke or limit your passport.

(https://patellawoffices.com/blog/planning-for-tax-minimization/irs-passport-revocation-or-denial-for-unpaid-taxes/)

AJ,
From the link, it looks like if I owe the IRS my passport will be revoked. Nothing about being a registrant. You’d think they would be happy to see registrants go.

What happens if I get the notice, but am living overseas and going from country to country, taking advantage of tourist visas with no plans to return until necessary? Do I have to unexpectedly drop everything and return to the US? or can I get it through some entity over there?

If you know that it’s been revoked you can get a new passport at a US Embassy.

Warpath posted this Travel-Matrix link in General Comments so he gets credit for finding it:

https://justfactsnotfear.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Travel-Matrix.xlsx.html

It appears to be a bit more comprehensive than Rtag.

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