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General News

MI: Changes to sex offender list cause confusion

Source: upmatters.com 9/14/21

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) — Nearly nine months after the state made court-ordered changes to the sex offender registry, there’s still a lot of confusion and questions about enforcement.

Michigan State Police say they are not enforcing violations of the law, which is meant to track offenders, while other agencies are.

The registry includes more than 40,000 names.

The confusion started a few years back when a federal judge, in response to a lawsuit filed by the University of Michigan Law Clinical Program and the American Civil Liberties Union, ruled parts of the sex offender registry unconstitutional.

Among the flaws: requiring sex offenders to immediately report whenever they moved, got a new car or got a new phone number; and banning sex offenders from living or loitering within 1,000 feet of schools.

The school safety zone was important to Jessica Monteith and her daughter, who was 11 when the 40-year-old father of a school friend molested her in 2010.

“Knowing that sex offenders were not allowed on school property was almost a sigh of relief for her,” the mom said of her daughter.

The state responded to the federal court ruling with a new sex offender registry law in December 2020.

It eliminated the 1,000-foot school safety zones.

Read the full article

 

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So how would the school zones have prevented her daughters molestation? Willing to bet it happened at the friend’s home and not at school.

That was my thought exactly. The victim had a panic attack when she saw her molester at graduation. So the “logical” response was the 1000 foot restriction. The victim needs therapy. She could encounter the man at a Walmart or a gas station. The moral panic and illogic surrounding sex offenses never ceases to amaze me.

Veritas.

Of course. It’s nonsense. The Karens could keep every PFR out of every school in the country and that will not change the risk level in any significant or useful way.

I barely scanned this article but my visceral response was that I don’t care at all about this mother and the victim or how they feel. How sad is that? In fact, I felt “f**k them”. That is what the Oppression Lists (OLs) have done to me. They killed my general empathy and compassion long ago. Today, I see “people” such as these only as attackers/harassers who cannot mind their own business and they are using their personal problems (e.g being a crime victim) to attack and harass my family. F**k these “people” thinking they can tell me where to live, go, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam. I do hope they suffer.

But hey, at least the OLs are protecting so many children. They’ve done great things for America.

Agree Will. I have also begun to feel the same way about those people who won’t wear masks around people in public spaces and those people who refuse to get the vaccine. Their reasoning saves no one and can potentially affect others. I say f**k them too (for any mod who wants to edit my word f**k, I’ll remind you that word is defined in our dictionaries. Not only that but forum guidelines state “Swear words should be starred out such as f*k and s*t”… Note the word SHOULD as opposed to MUST.
[It also says “Moderating decisions may be subjective”]

Well this seems to be on its last legs there. Oh well. Abe Lincoln said it best. The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.

So the man was at the school to watch his son graduate and this woman thought he was there to molest her daughter. Give me a break…

You’re equipped to follow up her delusions by making the point to the media outlet that ran the story. You’ll be surprised how cathartic it can be to confront it publicly.
Permanent victim’s stance is very dangerous to civil order. If I’m this guy no way she walks away unconfronted. Either the father’s attendance is prohibited by law, or protected by law, it cannot be both. I’m still unclear about this fact and would like clarification. The registry issue doesn’t ring germane

The situation the mom describes is exactly why anyone with common sense doesn’t want the safety zones—it turned a minor bit of awkwardness into a massive spectacle, potentially ruining graduation for all in attendance. These laws are idiotic and enforcement does more harm than good. No one has ever been “molested” at a high school graduation. I’m sorry if seeing someone who committed a crime against you is triggering, but that’s life! 15 years ago I was robbed at gun point—should I be able to throw a tantrum every time I see the two guys who did it? No, and I don’t care!

What if a person forced to register is a single parent by law they have to enroll their children in school so what, their barking the law and abiding by it at the same time, sounds confusing the system is definitely rigid to destroy sex offenders lives.
First they attack the registrants support group by breaking up their family’s then they go after their financial support job loss which often leads to homelessness and eventually FTR and prison.

Good luck

I promise you the same kind of confusion existed among the people after the Emancipation proclamation was promulgated circa 1865. There was great fear and paranoia from every corner.

Sounds like bs!! To me… The victim is trying to play a horse and pony show. Or is it the lawmakers who want the victims to play this game to get votes to stay in office. Who will pass useless laws which will make the victim think they are safe. But this just in!!!! You can never be safe (ever)!!!! Things happen and you should be prepared. To think the guy was there for your kid. You need help with yourself

James… I am oh, it’s a good opportunity to put on a drama show and a good attention getter. Unfortunately it was a happy occasion for the kids who are graduating and their families but sometimes things happen did you deal with it. As far as the politicians… it’s good job security when you create a need that you can fill. Build the fear in people and convince them that you are the one that will protect them and all they have to do is vote for you. To me that is pretty evident with these extremes they’ve gone to in some of these rule of the registry. The $50 extortion money demanded and if not paid you will be incarcerated. I honestly believe that the only reason they increase the punishment is because it looks good on the résumé come reelection time.

If I may I would like to say a word or two on confusion in much of this registry. Is it better to do the wrong thing than to do the right? Sure at times we have all done the wrong thing no matter what it is and yes doing the wrong can be the right thing. We all make decisions. Take for instance taking a plea deal. Even going down to meet someone that claims to be someone of opposite sex which they are not to be can be a wrong thing but in the end one is proving. So who is keeping their code of ethics in protecting and serving by this ruse of confusion. Their is a lot of cofussing issues not only in the registry but other issues in American Government.

See God is not the author of confusion man is. Even taking a plea deal may be confusing or intimidating to one but doesn’t the bible say dare go to court in front of the unjust. Sure confusion and wronging a right or righting a wrong can be just as perplex as the ordeal but remember their is always a silver lining to every dark cloud.

The registry was not made for safety it was made for payback. I don’t know how many times I here people say in this country we should put sex offenders on a island and nuke them even though bragging that we are the greatest country in the world and God bless America. I wonder what God thinks about that?

I think He left a book for us to read,
That will tell us what He thinks?

@Dr.
who left us a book? God or Saddles?

😎

Sheldon your right but remember their is two side’s to every coin. Could one say the registry is an intimidation factor, the plea bargain, or deal some harliquin romance to digest or is the flavor of the registry have a sexual twist to it to trap those in this wrong or right ordeal.

Did any of us create the registry? Did anyone create dirty drive in movies,pornographic material, or are governments going a bit above their authority or are we all sinners in all this right or wrong. Are we talking about sin factors or cussing out the boss on the job when he tells you to sign out and leave. So if righteous is above government judgement than its morally to cuss out that boss that makes one work on over time, do extra work to merit a promotion and than be overlooked as still a nobody.

Who is making sense today. Do we judge based on trapping or was that trapping the right thing to do when we can all talk about the lesser of the two evils. So is their a lesson in all this or are those many that got caught up in this registry been brain washed like some dead end kid serial. Actually that serial had a bit of common sense in those days.

I was thinking… When you are incarcerated, over the years, you have the opportunity to work your security level down if you remain incident free. Not the case with Michigan BS registry. You are assigned a tear in which you remain forever. There is no consideration or good time. Based solely on the nature of crime, which never changes and what you have already been sentence for! Who in their right mind could not see that this is punishment?

Valid assessment !

@ And I CK, as many here know, I was convicted back in 1992 before a registry existed, along with some others on here as well. I was considered a low level threat, I was in Jackson, at Parnell, level 1. I was there for about 18 months then came the registry, put on for 25 years, which would of been up last year, 6-19-20, but was put on it for life. So here I am with all of you trying to fight this unconstitutional registry

So i just got home after having an interesting conversation with a sergeant at the Oak Park State Police post. I had noticed some incorrect information on my name and went in to get it corrected, however, it couldn’t be done today because they only do SORA up to 3 pm, and it was 3:30. Anyway, he told me verification is still voluntary. I said I thought Judge Cleland’s final order ended all that and he said there was an executive order from the Governor making it still voluntary while Lansing makes some changes to the website. He also told me that if I’m pre 2011 I don’t have to worry about any mistakes on my info because, and I quote his words, “pretty soon guys who are pre 2011 won’t have to do it any more.”
He told me he will look for the memo from the governor and to stop by tomorrow before 3:00 and he would give me a copy.
Now, I don’t know what’s going on because there was nothing in Cleland’s final order that says pre 2011 are coming off the registry so I’m not going to get my hopes up. It is interesting though when I told him there’s certain things that pre 2011 guys don’t have to do any more, but he told me Lansing was working on getting us removed. I don’t think that is something he would make up, but I’m certainly going to keep my eye on things. It kind of makes sense how when I look myself up sometimes that I am not listed, then a few days later I am, then later I’m not again.
I don’t have any more information right now, but once I get a copy of that memo, I will post it.

@DiM: That’s wild stuff. I like the Oak Park post because the staff there are professional and competent so while I’d normally dismiss a rumor like this out of hand, this caries a bit more weight since it comes from them. It’s good to know it’s still voluntary (I haven’t been there since December, 2019). Speaking of which, assuming Michigan hasn’t seen more sex crimes in the past 2 years than states that didn’t let registration be voluntary, isn’t this excellent evidence against the safety benefits of quarterly, semi-annual, or even annual address verification? Michigan is currently a case study in why address verification isn’t necessary.

Thanks man I really appreciate the helpful stuff you post on here

Disgusted… Thanks very much for the information. All we can do is hope but that sure sounds hopeful.

I think the cop just handed u a sh$t sandwich.

That is a very bold statement.
Hopefully the memo will be posted tomorrow,
I really like to see that!
On another note, I just checked my local map and all the usual people are still on and surprisingly all compliant.

I’d only listen to the information that the ACLU puts out. This officer has incorrect information. You are required to register and all pre-2011 are not coming off. All Michigan registrants should sign up to their mailing list to get updates. Not sure if I can post an email here but you can look for Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist.

I’m not saying it’s gospel. I simply said I had an interesting conversation. I’m taking what he said with a grain of salt until I have something in writing from Lansing. I’m aware of Tim, but if the state police tells me to do or not do something, I’m going to listen to them first as they are the ones who control the registry.

The state police are not the ones that control the registry, I’d say the prosecutors are. The prosecutors have more control than the police. That is why I trust what the ACLU says more, because they know as much about the SOR law(and probably more) as the legislators that wrote it because they are challenging the law. If you fail to follow a law because of what a police officer tells you, they aren’t the one facing prosecution. You are. That’s true of the ACLU as well so you just need to do your own fact checking.

The State Police DO maintain the registry. Look it up. The ACLU is a non profit organization that advocates for civil rights. That’s all. They do not make policies or laws. If the ACLU tells me to do one thing and the state police tell me something different, you bet your a$$ I’m going to do what the state police says. To do anything otherwise is down right stupid.
You’re still missing the whole point so I’ll say it again. I had an interesting conversation with the state police and thought I would share it. That’s all. In no way was I trying to say what they told me was either correct or incorrect. I’m not saying people are coming off the registry, nor am I telling anyone not to verify. Do what you feel is best for you. As far as me, I will continue to verify whether its voluntary or not until I get notification from Lansing that I no longer have to.
Don’t take what I said out of context or try to blow it out of proportion. It was a conversation I felt inclined to share.

@Disgusted….AMEN! I’m going to continue verifying as well. I’ve kept my record pristine for almost 28 years. My faith in the ACLU is almost non existent at this point. Still waiting for the right time to file on my own when there’s a reasonable chance of success.

The MSP and local police take our information, that’s it. Judge Cleland issued a ruling on August 4 that said the Interim Order is terminated. There’s 9 pages so it said much more than that. You should read it. You should print it and give it to the officer that said verification is voluntary.
http://www.mied.uscourts.gov/PDFFIles/16-13137DoesFinalJmt.pdf

@Michigan Registry….I would tend to agree with you but @Disgusted isn’t given to hyperbole or being outlandish with his posts. He didn’t come on here and spout a bunch of information that was completely inaccurate and never came to fruition like @Detroit for example. The state of Michigan has in fact lost on multiple fronts. Have they been shady AF in their remedies? Of course. Depending on the reaction to the most recent loss in Betts ie. a challenge to scotus could happen but those “paper” victories that the ACLU keeps amassing are going to become good case law eventually. Personally, I would tend to be skeptical of a cop telling me something like what @Disgusted is describing but I’m willing to wait & see. Been waiting 27 years…

Thanks Josh. Like I said, I had an interesting conversation and was sharing it. That’s all. In no way was it meant to imply we are coming off or don’t have to register any more. It just struck me as interesting because the Sgt seemed very serious, but I am skeptical about it. I always am until I see something in writing.. But it could be possible that something is going on that we know nothing about. Remember when this all first began that it was the State Police who said they would like to see the number of people on the registry reduced. But as far as real information goes, I’ll do what the State Police tell me to do, not the ACLU.

@Disgusted…no problem brother! I agree 100% that the MSP is the source to go to ahead of the Aclu. Does anybody else find it interesting that the injunction is still posted on the top of the MISOR page? That goes along with the mixed message we’re hearing from our fellow persons forced to register across the state when it comes to verification. I believe something could be in the works as well. I’m hoping that Betts could be useful sooner rather then later..

Judge Cleland issued an order on August 4, 2021 that included the statement “The Interim Order, R. 91, is hereby terminated.”

So the judge is out,
But the governor’s in ?
Sure would like to see that executive order,,,

Hello Disgusted in Michigan, Did you have a chance to go back and receive or see a copy of the memo? I am curious to review that because I am pre-2011

Years ago Nessel filed an Amicus Brief in which she wanted the entire registry eliminated as unconstitutional. Perhaps that has some bearing on the situation.

@@ Bobby s ,
You still out there,
Just a reminder Wednesday 20th @ 4pm ,, Michigan aclu webinar

@Dr., Yeah I’m still out here I just haven’t been posting much cuz there isn’t much to say there’s been no updates or anything that I’m aware of and I have a feeling Wednesdays conference thing or whatever you want to call it is just going to be the same whole thing nothing’s changed. I really don’t think anything they’re going to say is going to be new or change anything for any of us but we’ll see but thanks for the reminder.

@BobbyS….Hope you’re feeling better bud! I couldn’t agree with you more about your opinion on this upcoming conference call. Does 3 still hasn’t been filed and according to people I trust, when it does it will likely take multiple years to litigate. Y’all can go ahead and listen to that conference call and you should understand that NOTHING is going to change. The system is rigged and a mass number of registrants is never going to be removed.

If someone can record this and post it later, I’d like to listen to it. Wednesday evenings at 5:00 is my bowling league so I won’t be able to listen to it.

It will be posted after it gets filtered, give the aclu a week to clean it up, remember some of the people that call in have no filter on their language,

I’m sorry,
I am wrong about it being posted!
I assumed, that is on me.

When I die of old age in forty years from now I wonder if they remove me from sex offender list.

Separate burial plot ?

Anyone have any kind of news up update yet? For me, I have still not registered. Had police behind me while driving for almost a mile yesterday, no issues. Also I am still not on the online registery. Still unsure what to do.

still have not done verification. Plan on trying in December (my next month) at which point it will have been 2 years. Guess I’ll bring $100 (two fifty dollar fees, each in exact change, since they can never give change). I live in a city where county cops never visit and haven’t been visited by any officer since I first moved into this house 10 years ago. I’m tier 2 and haven’t checked the registry, assume I’m there. I go to a MSP post in the suburbs.

Hello everyone, I’m not if anyone know the answer to this but I just checked profile on the registry. I am compliant, but we’re it says 2nd degree attempted next to it it says false, I’ve never seen the word false there does any one have a clue what that means. Thanks in advance.

I recieved the letter from the nazis sorry, I mean the msp. They just wanted to let me know that im not being put on a island to be nuked along with the rest of the pfr’s.

What does that exactly mean? That you don’t have to register?

Yes i have to just like everybody else on the hit list

@ Bobby s,
I just got back from Gratiot county sheriffs office,
Big sign on front,,,,,Closed.
Due to corona virus. Call
875-5214 so I called and it went to voicemail,,,
I was going to ask about the false thing on my listing, but never got the chance, if you get an answer let us know.

5-10-94
4th degree misdemeanor
30 days county..

27 years and counting

#Dr. Hello, I went into my local cop shop to check in today, and the Clerk Brenna said she has no clue what it means, she said I see it here , but has no clue. She asked a couple of the cops in my small town, and of course they were clueless. Cops in my town are as dumb as a box of rocks. She suggested I call the people who are in charge of the Registry at the MSP and ask them. So far it’s either a busy signal or it just keeps ringing. I’ll keep trying but if you try MSP and get an answer will you please let me know I am very curious on what that means. Thanks.

Go to the state police post that has jurisdiction in Gratiot County. They’re always open.

I have an appointment with an attorney next week to discuss filing my own lawsuit based on the recent Betts decision. I, like Betts, was convicted in 1993 before sora existed. The Michigan Supreme Court in the Betts case held the retroactive application of sora violated state and federal constitutional prohibitions on ex post facto laws.
I’m tired of waiting around so I’m going to at least talk to an attorney about it.

@ Disgusted in Michigan,
Thank you!!!!!!
From your posts I believe you live near a big city, and have access to knowledgeable attorneys, I don’t have any in Gratiot co. They all bow to the court and cops around here,
If you get a satisfactory result I would think a path would be beaten down to the attorneys door, I know of a dozen clients within a 5mile radius of me that are waiting on a path in Michigan….

Again thank you!

Last edited 1 month ago by Dr.

And the answer is _____ ?

I just donated $100 to Janice & crew because she’s guaranteed TO TAKE THE FIGHT TO THEM!!!! Thank you for the forum & the support system it provides. Best wishes and as happy a holiday season to all of you!

@ Disgusted in Michigan,
Are you still around?

1000s are on the registry FOR NO LEGAL REASON. The prosecutions are/were BOGUS. See www. SpeakAgainstTheCharges. com for legal proofs.
It’s beyond egregious and is quite HEINOUS what the State AG in conspiracy with Oakland, Macomb, and Genesee counties – especially Oakland County where they routinely PERJURED VENUE to get the most convictions ( 100% it appears ) for 20 years.
ANY LAWYERS UP TO OVERCOMING CORRUPTION AND HECK v HUMPHREY in a multi-BILLION dollar Class Action ?

Certainly not in GRATIOT co.

The only lawyers that I know of that are willing to take on corruption and a multi billion dollar class action lawsuit are the lawyers working for and with the Michigan aclu, BUT
They have around 150 million (MY GUESS) to spread across All of their suits and upcoming suits, and be able to keep the lights on…..
But the state has a bottomless gold mine, the citizens of Michigan taxpayers,,,,
The state just runs its game until we are dead 💀 and then they don’t have to admit they are wrong and they don’t have any consequences,,,
After we’re gone (dead) then they will repeal at the state level, then a year or two later at the federal level………
Just my thoughts after reading about the January 7th
2022 democratic manifesto.

One more thing, if I have to give the cops my password and internet handle,,, I’m gone.

Maybe this will help someone?
Delete if not allowed

at https://smart.gov/sorna-map.htm.

Also It’s a year old

Did anyone else get a reply from the aclu today?
I filed a complaint a couple weeks ago and was wondering if the response was from my complaint or a general statement?

I got one

@Dr, I got a email today from Tim about the progress of Does lll, and where it stands and that it is possible that it might be filed in early 2022.

You don’t have to give the cops your passwords for federal SORANA. I know nothing about the state law in your state, but I doubt you are required to give passwords. Ask someone here from your state.

@ love will prevail,

I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear enough, I said ( if ).
Meaning in the future,
I was charged with a 4th degree misdemeanor 5-10-93, I was sentenced to 30days county and probation 4yrs,,,then in 96 I was ordered to sign a paper or go directly to jail by the probation officer,not because of anything I had done, just because of sorna,
Then a couple of years later I was told I had to visit the police station, then I had to PAY the police once a year then, then I could not attend my children’s graduation or sports events, then I couldn’t take them to a park,,, blah, blah, blah,,,,
Not because of anything I have done, just because of sorna and this has been going on since 5-10-93……
So I hope you understand my jadedness when it comes to sorna and the future.
Sincerely Dr.

That is GD infuriating. Anyone who thinks that is acceptable is a P.O.S.

No one should be nice to anyone who thinks Registries are acceptable. It is far past time to stop treating those terrorists as if they are humans or worthy of any respect.

Wanna peak into aclu of Michigan? Read their year in review 2021,,,,,

I see we didn’t make the cut…

Would you admit to helping people who have committed sexual offenses and then getting embarrassed because you got played for a fool when you had the upper hand. I wouldn’t include that in my end of the year newsletter either….

That’s why I’m retaining a lawyer and fighting for myself

I believe disgusted in Michigan was going to contact lawyer and ask for help, still waiting on the response.

Last edited 16 days ago by Dr.

I already talked to one I will retain them hopefully this week I’m not waiting for the ACLU

I’ve been saving a little from my SS. Monthly check so I would like to hire, just waiting for the right lawyer,
I hope you have found a path to freedom!
Might I ask which county?

Yes, I have retained a law firm in Oakland County who is very eager. They are currently gathering information, data, and applicable laws and we will be filing.

Thank you!

Just need to vent again,,,

Lets not forget the Oliver law group and the university of Michigan have a part in this action.
We don’t need justice, we need politicians to follow the constitutional law, or removed from office and charged with breaking their oath to the constitution of the state of Michigan.
Then go after those that broke their oath to the constitution of the United States, no retraining, no justice, just lawful conviction for those who think they are above the law,,, and might I add to the FULL extent of the law .
Whewww,
I don’t have to study it, I’m living It,,,,,,

Last edited 15 days ago by Dr.

One more thing!
There is no blind justice!!!!!
If there was everyone would be served the same in a court of law, period!

Thanks for bring this article back to one’s attention Grinch. This article talks about a ban-aid law , or if one is using/practicing a Byzantine type law in Government. So were there is no guidance the people fall, but in the abundance of counselors the people have victory. And yes Janice is a counselor as well as other advocates. Yes man can be the author of confusion.

Many can get on ACLU but they are their when one needs them. Yes many don’t have all the answers. I was studying on this last night. Can we all say who’s right in this government confusion as many have been played on from all across America 
 Is registry for community safety, public safety, or vain vanquish efforts to punish with unethical means and measures or practices.

Let true justice ring again or is true justice getting a bit more out of hand. Even efforts can be in vain in American government Justice. Should we all say its about computers or how one controls the tongue.Is it all about incriminating subject matter or some court of law distributing blind justice by scrupulous/scandalous means. Even signing papers can be incriminating and intimidating.

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