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National

FL: Citrus County judge says being on the sex offense registry for life is punishment

Source: chronicleonline.com (found by Florida Action Committee)

Howard decided on Monday a lifelong label as a sex offender was a suitable punishment for Ashlee _____, the Dunnellon 21-year-old who sexually coerced and molested a teenage boy.

After Ashlee _____pleaded no contest to her fate, Howard adjudicated her guilty of soliciting a child for sexual conduct, two counts of lewd and lascivious molestation of a child between 12 and 16 years old and three counts of transmitting harmful material to a minor.

For the first six years of registering as a sex offender during her life, Ashlee _____must serve sex-offender probation, during which she must wear a GPS-monitoring device, the judge ruled.

Assistant State Attorney Tara Hartman and the boy’s mother objected to Ashlee _____sentence.

“She’s been allowed to live her life like she hasn’t dropped a bomb on our family,” said the boy’s mother, who’s identity is being withheld. “It’s upsetting she’s continuing to live her life like she’s done nothing wrong.”

Read the full article [you will need to skip down halfway to the title “Judge sentences woman to probation in child-molestation case, despite objections”

 

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Wow! My takeaways:

(1) A judge said that being on the registry is punishment!

(2) The judge said that non-violent sex crimes are worthy of the same life sentence as first degree murder, except that it is on the registry!

(3) The mother essentially says that non-violent sex crimes deserve life sentence and never a chance for restoration!

@ Roger H: My conviction was in Florida so I can tell you from experience: In Florida, ANY physical contact is considered “assault” and, therefore, violent. It would only have been considered non-violent if there had been no physical contact whatsoever (such as a CP or sexting offense.)

Roger….I don’t know who said “Here comes the judge” but we are all born into trouble. So that judge or whoever says this and that must of never looked at a woman to lust. So who judges fairly on that one. One wonders what is lust, a bait for law enforcement to entrap another with.

Being fair is one thing but going overboard is a bit of overkill even in this registry in many situations……….. Are they playing sin squad today in America? A ruse is a ruse.

Oh so now it’s punishment when we get the women involved. Very interesting. I bet that judge would’ve never said that if it was a male he was dealing with.

Yes, the gender hypocrisy surrounding “sex offending” is obvious. However, if it takes women “offenders” to change unjust laws then that’s wonderful, for it will help the males who make up the overwhelming number of victims of these laws.

Is the judge saying it’s “punishment” in the actual court transcripts or something the article’s author worded that way?

Yeah. I wished there were direct quotes from the transcript.

Here’s as close as it gets, but it’s by the author:

Citing Graham’s age and lack of criminal history, Howard sentenced Graham as a youthful offender. 

Howard said Monday Graham’s status as a sex offender will forever limit her freedoms, like where she can work and live.

Limiting a freedom for life feels as though it is punishment. We know living restrictions in some states is punishment/unconstitutional.

Compare this quote from this article:

Graham’s status as a sex offender will forever limit her freedoms, like where she can work and live.

With what SCOTUS said in Smith v. Doe:

[I]n contrast to probationers and supervised releasees, offenders subject to the Act are free to move where they wish and to live and work as other citizens, with no supervision.

Though she’s on probation for six years, the supposed statement from the judge talks about forever. Still think it’s a non-punitive regulatory scheme, SCOTUS?

In truth, it’s to our benefit to start having judges issue it as punishment. What better way to prove the “effect” argument of Kennedy v. Mendoza-Martinez? So I say, “thank you, your Honor.”

Yes. The Oppression Lists are harassment and that’s all. Retaliate.

Will

The Oppression Lists really saved the 13 year old boy from harm; which is proof the lists are bs.

That is not proof that the Oppression Lists (OLs) are BS. It is only proof that they don’t protect everyone.

There is other proof that the OLs are BS. But to be fair, I don’t think it would be a problem if every American knew all about a person’s past criminal history if only Americans could not be such dumba**es about it. It is not fair though unless it is for all serious crimes. But it is obvious that Americans cannot responsibly have and use such information. So it must be taken from them. The good news is that it is obvious that the information is not needed or useful. That much is very clear.

Will, I would restate your comment regarding proof that registries “don’t protect everyone.” Saying it as you did opens the door to the often used “if the registry saves only one child” argument. I totally agree that if the registry saved one child, then it is worth it. I challenge anyone to prove that it has. It can’t be done because that requires proving a negative. That assertion is a rhetorical trap used by registry proponents.

This incident reinforces two important points. First, the registry cannot be shown to protect anyone. Second, most child sexual assaults are from someone known to the victim. The article says, “[a]ccording to the boy’s mother, she had taken Graham into her care for roughly three years after finding out she was homeless.” Even the judge noted that the boy “had fallen … I don’t want to say in love … but had affection for someone living in his own home.”

Veritas.

Yeah, I considered that. But the “if it saves one child” argument is thoroughly stupid. How about if it saves 10 children but harms 100,000? It saved one child, is that worth it? Obviously not. And that is certainly the case with the Oppression Lists (OLs). It is not debatable at all that the OLs have harmed hundreds of thousands of children. Has it saved any? Probably. Maybe.

Also, if the “saves one child” is sensible at all then there really are zero legitimate reasons that a hundred other Registries weren’t created decades ago. It can’t possibly make sense given that a Gun Offender Registry has not been created.

Frankly, I think the premise of the OLs are a good idea – just to inform new neighbors or whatever. But it is beyond obvious – really, really beyond – that in actual reality and practice, OLs are a colossally idiotic idea. I really don’t believe there are any informed, smart, moral people who disagree with that.

@ Ed C: “… if the registry saved one child, then it is worth it.”
I disagree. At what point is the collective suffering of nearly a million Registrants (and their families, including children!!) equal to or greater than the alleged suffering of that “one child”??
Yes, may be an ugly question, but it is a very valid one.
Is the pain/emotional conflict /embarrassment/whatever suffered by the 13-year-old boy from having sexual activity with a 21-year-old woman commensurate to all the suffering caused by the registry?

If lawmakers and registry supporters TRULY believed their “one life saved” argument, there would be much harsher DUI laws in place to save the actual mortal lives of children.
In fact, if the DUI laws were equivalent to how easy it is to place a person on the registry for life, many drivers would lose their right to operate a motor vehicle FOR LIFE after just one DUI conviction. Right?? 🤷🏻‍♂️

(Obviously, lawmakers and registry supporters are influenced by the “ick” factor of sex offenses. Maybe they should have to recover a child’s remains from a crushed car after a DUI accident and take a moment to consider that “ick” factor. 😒🤨)

My point–however poorly articulated– was that the “one child” framing can’t be attacked directly. To imply that harm to a single child is ok would immediately bring condemnation and discredit any subsequent rebuttal.

It is much better to agree that one child should never be harmed, and ask for proof that even a single child has been spared as a result of the registry. No proof of that can ever be presented. There can be only speculation.

The logical corollary to the “one child” argument is that if one child is harmed by the registry, it should be abolished. Now, that harm is something that can be demonstrated.

In allowing the “one child” frame to stand, that anti-registry argument is essentially lost. Reversing the frame puts one defending the registry in the indefensible position. It is not ok for the registry to harm even one child.

Veritas.

Very well said, Ed. That’s an extremely compelling argument to me.

Will

I did something today that might make you proud. Currently my mom’s in the hospital and I went to visit her using a different name. Thank God for a mask. Funny the lady from the sheriff office called and told me there are no restrictions, so I could use my real name.

Never mind I was dumb and I have to make a call tomorrow for an alias. All because my emotions have been crazy in the last few days and all I wanted was to see my mom without being harassed. I rather report the change than face a charge over something stupid.

I hope your mother is doing well.

What kind of hospital would keep someone from visiting their mother? A hospital that is too clueless to be involved in science and thus should not be practicing medicine. Are they also too dumb to just check IDs? They need some fancy segregation system like Raptor or whatever that garbage is called.

I’d use an alias every time if I had to. Probably wouldn’t bother telling the criminal regime about it either, even though that would likely reduce any anxiety that I might have about it.

This stupid called the Oppression Lists needs to end.

Just a comment on the registry as punishment:
I’ve been in contact with some registrants recently who have less than the 15 year or the lifetime Wisconsin “sentence” on the registry. I didn’t look up legislation to see how or if it is allowed. It seems that judges are able to vary the sentence to fit the crime.
Any other states doing this?

You guys are living in fantasyland! Quoting cases? Florida hates sex offenders! If she where a man, they would have fried! I’m summary, you have an adult grooming and molesting a 13 year old boy. 13 (in your minds you will disagree). [snip] If I had an adult molesting my 13 year old daughter, I would be outraged! It’s the law. No case law will beat this. I’m off the registry because I got lucky. I also went to LA! Hint. Move on

I agree 🤏😁

Well stated,

I’m moving to Long Beach in April and then I will petition, as I was refused a COR in

Orange County in 2011. We need to make our best move forget this HOPE shit.

I think the punishment fits the crime, she’s gonna suffer for the rest of her life.
I know she made a mistake but the law is the law, if she was 18 I’d probably understand how this happened but a 21 year old, should of known better
I do believe her gender played a major part in her sentencing if this had been a 21 year old man the judge would of thrown the book at him.
Far as her future of getting a job or finding a place to live people will help a young women in destress faster then they will help a man so I don’t see her haveing a hard life she’ll probably get married and be a stay at home mom she’s never gonna really have to answer to anyone in society but her PO.
Being on the registry is hard only because the people on it keep trying to live normal lives, people need to stop trying be productive members of society and become A major burden for state of California don’t just sit there and do nothing.
Unfortunately people like me won’t be with you guys for ever the DOJ decided to separate us out of fear of what we could of done had we all stayed together, now after January 1st 2022 Tier 3 offenders will be forced to stand alone while others registrants sit on the sidelines like spectators at a Nazi death camp, hopeing to one day go free

Good luck

Yeah, let’s not with “the law is the law”. USA has no shortages of terrible and unjust laws.

@ AERO1: “…. she’ll probably get married and be a stay at home mom she’s never gonna really have to answer to anyone in society… ”
If her future is as you suggest, then just imagine all of the many horrible ways the registry will impact her and her children?? How will she be able to take her children to and pick her children up from a child care facility? Will she be able to walk her child to school then pick the child up after school if she’s not allowed on school property? Will she attend PTA conferences or meetings with her child’s teacher? Extracurricular activities such as school plays or supporting events? Fundraisers? The list goes on and on. And remember, this is Florida, so who knows if she’ll even be allowed in a grocery store if there’s a child in the store with his or her parent? What about attending a Disney movie with herr child? And, for that matter, she’ll never be able to take her child to Disney World. The myriad and multiple ways her life will be impacted are infinite. ☹️

Registration for life is a punishment. If you are a first time offender you will spend the rest of your life monitor due to legislation toward the “Flavor of the month”. A computer hack that place objectionable items on a hard drive can place you on the registry for life. Punishment: commonly, is the imposition of an undesirable (anyone really find it “Desriable to be labeled for life)or unpleasant outcome upon a group or individual, meted out by an authority—in contexts ranging from child discipline to criminal law—as a response and deterrent to a particular action or behavior that is deemed undesirable or unacceptable.
Why else would it be in the law. The state of Illinois has such a law, why you ask the person running for States Attorney saw it a way to get votes.

Well stated! Again, if this where a man, they would be in prison! There is a cute Asian/innocent substitute teacher in /////// who groomed a younger student/bribed him with $/video games? I don’t think the registry is going away, but putting her on the registry for life is overboard! Had they put her on for 10 years (I know) would have been bad enough! If this where a man, they would have ? So, there is clearly a double standard! I hired a private attorney for my case. Had I not been bailed out or had the resources to show a different side to my case, I may have spent years in prison rather then settling with summary probation and now off the registry! So, economics can have an affect on your case as well! Interesting: I’ve been off the registry since April. I sleep better! I’ve never received any contact from either LE agency where I was registering? I had to call and verify via their administrative staff! Yet, I only received a document via the court & DOJ! I would love to see if anyone screws up and accidentally posts me on the Megan’s law? Or, cops come by for a residency check? Lol

The judge sentenced her as a youthful offender, but nonetheless felt it was appropriate that a “youthful offender” be placed on Florida’s forever sexual offender registry for life?? (Of course, it is Florida, so there was no alternative – the registry is for life. How alternative of a shorter time frame exists in Florida – it’s always for life.)

My heart goes out to both Ashlee and her victim. I’ve been forced to register for a decade. A decade long nightmare that I’ve endured since my mid-fifties. I can not even fathom the life this young lady will have to endure. It’s inhumane and cruel. Nowhere to live, no goals, no dreams and no hope. While getting removed from Florida’s registry is currently impossible, she needs to move out of that hell hole state.

What Ashlee did was horrible; however I don’t think lifetime on the registry fits the punishment for the crime. No I’m not condoning what she did.

Last edited 11 days ago by webmaster

Presumptive justice, presumptive public safety, judgement or abuse.. oops thats only in bankruptcy laws. Confirmatory testing of character what else is next in the minds of humans in a punishment phase. Example one has a car accident so someone is presumed a wreckless driver so a presumptive law not to drive is mandatory just for one hit car ordeal, talk about skid marks even a slip of the tongue is dangerous today. And yes their have been a lot of slips in life even by government.

I’m sure the queen of England would be shocked on Columbus Day or did she actually discover Columbus’s knights of the round table. Much of this registry is getting to be a bit hazy….xxx

Yes! We can’t keep pretending to be victims! The child in this situation was the victim. The registry (no matter how many cases you can quote/or negative comments are made) isn’t going away! If the punishment for murder was 60 days, what would people do? Or, how many people haven’t offended or re-offended 2nd to the registry? Should anyone be placed on lifetime? Or, should 1st time offenses be 5 years? 10 years for serious? Probably. The success of this group won’t be over night, but we could still be banned from beaches and parks? That’s almost mind boggling! How? We win one win after another. If I (I already did)! lived in LA county or had a friend/relative in LA county (wink) and I could use their address and register in 2 locations (wink), I would put LA as my primary and be running to LA with such a liberal DA! I know (wink) one guy who may have obtained a COR/off and never even saw the court room/Judge or DA! Make it happen!

I’m not eligible for a COR because my case is federal and it didn’t matter that most of the court proceedings including sentencing occurred at the federal court in downtown Los Angeles. Under federal law I have a minimum registration duration of 15 years unless that’s reduced by a federal judge. Then there’s the lifetime requirement under California law because I’m currently a tier three due to having been convicted of possession of CP federally. Are there ways for me off the registry? Technically yes, but it’s a lot more challenging.

Obviously Florida is whacky and the woman in question should move out of that State asap. Given her conduct I don’t believe the sentence was fair. The whole system is skewed across the board for many offenses (not just sex offenses).

PFRs are not “pretending” to be victims. PFRs are victims.

I have to be clear though so the ones on this forum with little minds don’t get confused – if a PFR committed an actual crime (and most probably did), then at that point the PFR was not a victim. However, after the punishment for that ends and the PFR continues to be punished and harassed, then the PFR certainly is a victim.

People commit crimes. If a government is moral, intelligent, fair, and not corrupt, it will punish those people accordingly. It will also punish them proportionately (compared to other crimes). We know that is not the case with PFRs. They are punished immorally, idiotically, and certainly not fairly or proportionately. So the governments that are doing that are not legitimate. They are criminal regimes. They are banana republics. Amerika is a sh*thole, third world country. PFRs are victims of them and all the scumbags that support them.

I do agree with you that the Oppression Lists (OLs) are not likely going away any time soon. But that’s okay. They can continue to exist and do nothing useful. I will continue to help ensure that they continue to harm actually hundreds of millions of people living in America. That is not exaggeration either – it is hundreds of millions of people.

So sure, Amerika can and should keep their OLs. They deserve what happens. Amerika does stupid really, really well, I think they are a world leader in that. They can keep trashing themselves with OLs. Most people living in Amerika will continue to burn.

Couldn’t have said it better, US. You’ll right . Guess we are victims or our own circumstances whether with pervasive, persuasive, or adverse, the reaction is still there and does play a huge role in much of this registry for dollars.. Actually this article ACSOL presents has understanding even about these sexual situations. Yes situations do come up and they are all different. even the adverse action can take on a whole different meaning. Adversarial Justice Systems never really studied it.

So one wonders those without sin cast the first stone or go and sin no more. Here the mother is pleading for a lesser stance on this matter or issue and authorities just ignoring her. guess I-phones are the rage today or was Samson brought down by the same adverse action. Even a bit of blackmail hanky panky also by authorities.

All examples are good and understanding the principal is good. Today one wonders if America has any principals in their principalities to actually judge without the whole nation knowing in these at times irrational judgments of a human sex nature. A bit discriminating when one thinks about it but life goes one.

One wonders today what is true judgement. Even Janice says on her website that the punishment much fit the crime. Sort of reminds me of Solomon judging the two harlots which I’m sure one can read up on it. Even the story is enlightening for truth.

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