Comments that are not specific to a certain post should go here, for the month of June 2013. Contributions should relate to the cause and goals of this organization and please, keep it courteous and civil.
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This is a discussion about the true number of persons required to register under Penal Code 290 in California. I am moving it to a new place as the original one does not seem on topic. Please see here for the beginning of this thread.
https://all4consolaws.org/2013/05/tiered-registry-bill-stopped-by-appropriations-committee/#comment-20178
Question – how many people are truly on the registry in California? Is the public number low? Is it high? Is it even close to being correct?
There was a previous discussion about this topic. It took me a while but I found where I got the 100,000 number from. It is the one often used, and it is a middle ground between these two reports (NCMEC – who cite State Sex Offender Registries as their source). None of this is terribly plausible.
So on June 17, 2011 there are 106,216 registrants in California.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/111227_SexOffenderMap.pdf
That number shrinks to 73,944 by December 11, 2012
http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/documents/Sex_Offenders_Map.pdf
How, pray tell, is this possible? Total number of registrants decreased by 32,000 in 18 months. With continued lifetime requirement and aggressive prosecutions. Did all these people die? move? get CORs / pardons? 32,000? Doubtful.
The ML web site displays 83,612 registrants. Yet another vastly different number.
Combine that with the argument – one that had never occurred – that it would take only 1,500 convictions statewide and lifetime registration per year since the invention of the SOR in 1944 to get to 100k. Again, even with attrition due to death, moving and CORs / pardons, this is highly doubtful.
What is one to conclude other than the fact that the whole system is either utterly inept and unorganized or simply corrupt. The public is sold a bill of goods. It is entirely beyond me where the difficulty lies with coming up with a current number – accurate to the person and the day. Is this not all contained in one database – website listings and not? An extremely pedestrian database, to boot. A simple select statement to slice and dice the data – public display or LE only, full address or zip code only. An even simpler count of all Primary IDs (registrants) to come up with an accurate count on a daily basis. There must be some interest in keeping the number in – or – deflated.
I don’t believe anything anymore.
It is nearly impossible to figure how many people register.. One, there are people who are not even on the published list because they are only require to check in with the police, but their info isn’t on line… Second, its a government runned list, to send fear to the public they can increase or decrease the number at will to spark panic. OMG we only have 1000 sex offenders on our list, there for all the rest are failing to register and we need more funds for residence checks and maintain the database and we need more laws… Or the reverse… OMG we have a million people on the list, therefore crime is running rampant and we need more funds and laws.. After a decade of dealing with this, I came to the conclusion that the registry is a political weapon to spark fear in the public…
I have an idea for a sex offender meeting activity. How about a playacting scenario where law enforcement conducts a compliance check with someone off parole? We can have members practice with other members on how to actually do it. My preference is to have the offender walk outside the door and lock it. (To this end, one should always be in the habit of carrying house keys at all times, including bathrobe). The offender should identify him/herself, but that’s it. We should defer answering other questions until the in-person registration renewal at the station. This includes any questions with regard to vehicle, other registrants, and any other aspect of registration. In short, the registrant only needs to show his/her ID, and does NOT need to allow LE to enter the house.
Even easier would be to have a statement internalized that goes like this: “My name is John Q. Smith, and this is my residence. I will defer all other information to my regularly scheduled registration appointment at the (place of sex offender jurisdiction).” Refuse to answer any other questions.
Again, the legalities are stark: the police have NO RIGHT to enter your house if you are off parole, nor do they have any other legal rights other than confirming your identity. In addition, even parolees have certain rights, and in most parole agents must be present upon an unwarranted search of your house or questioning of your activities during an official compliance check (check with legal professionals on that, though).
Cutting Costs – No Jails Needed
Prison is nothing but a breeding ground for gangs, terrorists,and a college for criminals. It has been shown that prisoners can even convert law abiding guards into their immoral lifestyles.
That being said, we certainly cannot release these moral degenerates onto an unsuspecting society without any safeguards to their security.
After all,it has been proven that criminals cannot be rehabilitated and must be closely watched.
An effective solution involves a registry which allows law enforcement and the world wide web to effectively watch them and their families with addresses of residence, employment, offence, and etc.
Lifetime registries have proven that they do more to thwart criminal recidivism than the threat of costly confinement.
It has been shown that the registry is a powerful tool for inflicting pain and suffering on not only the criminal but his family too. This further assures compliance with social moors as the family supports moral behavior from the offender.
Although the bad person still has the resemblance of freedom their civil rights can be restricted as legislators see fit. (As required for public safety.)
This has a better effect than a prison sentence because of a slip-a-round double indemnity feature.
Furthermore, in place of expensive prison benefits such as dental, medical, and a balanced meal program the registry can be used to avoid even the most basic needs of felons and their families like food stamps.
Denying them their social security benefits may also be a possibility, in the future, thereby freeing up funds for more noble endeavors.
It’s time to expand the registry and get tough on crime!
snark/ We need to lock up all kids!!! Contain them in government runned re-education facilities 24/7 until they are 18
Alarming news out today, not directly related to SOR, but on the other hand, it is directly related to EVERYTHING!
Seems since 2007, the federal government has been very secretly spying on EVERYONE on the Web. It has been collecting up ALL your e-mails and ALL your Facebook info and postings, and everything else! I have to think it is collecting up everything even from CaliforniaRSOL Website!
No probable cause needed, no warrant, no nothing, just is collecting up everything!
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2040996/report-nsa-fbi-collecting-content-from-google-facebook-other-services.html
Its some secret program called Prism. Of course, they “justify” it by saying it is to protect us all from foreign threats. (How does spying on US citizens in the US for whom you have no probable cause to have any suspicion about them whatsoever constitute protecting us from a FOREIGN threat?!)
This is separate and in addition to the news today about them collecting up all phone records of every call you have made, which has been getting widely reported today.
Why Queers Should Care About Sex Offenders
Huffpost article
June 8, 2013
” The same methods historically used by the government to imprison and pathologize homosexuality and gender variation are being used today to justify the extreme marginalization, lifetime institutionalization, and oppression of people who have violated sex laws. Sex offenders are the new queers. ”
More here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-extein-msw/why-queers-should-care-about-sex-offenders_b_3386970.html
thought this might be helpful
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_5_bill_20130430_amended_asm_v97.htm
This bill would enact the Homeless Person’s Bill of Rights and Fairness Act, which would provide that no person’s rights, privileges, or access to public services may be denied or abridged because he or she isbegin delete homeless, has a low income, or suffers from a mental illness or physical disabilityend deletebegin insert homelessend insert.begin delete The bill would provide that every person in the state, regardless of actual or perceived housing status, low income, sexual orientation, gender identity, citizenship, or immigration status, shall be free from specified forms of discrimination and shall be entitled to certain basic human rights, including the right to be free from discrimination by law enforcement, in the workplace, and while seeking services.end delete The bill would provide that everybegin insert homelessend insert person has the rightbegin insert, among others,end insert tobegin delete access public property, possess personal property, access public restrooms, clean water, educational suppliesend deletebegin insert move freely, rest, eat, share, accept, or give food or water, and solicit donations in public spaces, as defined, and the right to lawful self-employmentend insert, as specified,begin delete
I just noticed the update on Ordinances for Lancaster. I am confused. They did not completely repeal the first ordinance from Sept., but amneded it in regards to the definition of “sex offender”? Can anyone clarify for me? Thanks.
Thinking this weekend as I was volunteering my labor to repair a home…RSO’s for the most part seem to go beyond the norm in doing good works, living transparently, helping others, sort of overpaying our debt to society. The ironic thing is, society doesn’t accept the payment! Try as we will, we can never do enough for this “unpayable”debt!
I’ve been trying to come up with a small piece of paper that a registrant may give to the police or sheriff or US Marshal when they pull off their compliance check. I wanted to create something that would actually preclude any vocal communication. Now, I’m concentrating on those who are NOT under the court system, since parole introduces a whole slew of different levels of supervision with regard to current punitive threats.
Here is what I have so far. Perhaps we can bat this around and see how it can be improved.
________________
Registry dog
A little girl named Grace had a dog that bit another child. The police came and took her beloved dog away to be punished. In time the dog was returned to her whimpering and beaten down. He was required to be fenced in by a registry (Grace cried because she was often stared at and talked about while taking dog on walks). Then the neighbors saw that the bad dog had to much freedom so within the registry fence they had him chained and no longer could Grace take dog on walks (so Grace cried). She was told it’s for the sake of safety and security. Again the people rose up in hate against the dog in memory of the bite and said for safety sake the dog must also be put in a cage. The dog was not only fenced in the registry but tied down and caged. After all it was for community safety (Grace again cried for her beloved dog) but no one cared. Then politicians heard of the dog and said, “ hey, we’ll punish the dog too and get votes. It’s popular we can’t go wrong if we do it in the name of safety and security!” So they dug a deep hole and lowered down the caged dog so he’ll forever live in fear and never dare raise his head, come out or make a noise ever again. Grace even today must walk with a broken heart that cries out for her beloved dog. Redemption is the Question she longs for… does it exist for dog?
We would never do such a thing to a dog, but to our neighbor that has sinned in any sexual way? We’ll do it in a heartbeat (punishment without end), but where is Grace? Grace and her friend Compassion my Christian brothers and sisters are crying and what are we doing about it? What would Jesus DO?
By Robert Curtis
Proverbs 16:25 States, “There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof is the ways of death.”
There is a living death amongst us today and it seems on the surface to be right, but look deeper and consider where it started from. It started from a place of fear and darkness and from that place it has grown. It is the Sex Offender Registry.
I Think This Is A Great Article. You All Should Check It Out:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Ban_the_box_Felony_records_can_be_job_deal_breaker/20130616_214_G1_CUTLIN587526
My dog is on a registry until this coming January … Three years and total fines of $2,500. He never bit anyone … He just happened to get out the front door, twice, within a year and the second time got into a scuffle with the neighbors dog. Nothing happened. She filed, I fought, I lost. The hoops and changes we had to make at the house were unbelievable! Just my two cents! For our dog January can’t come soon enough … Of corse, then there is the CA registry where there is no end …. Yet.
I’m seeing too many thumbs down on posts on here. It looks to me like someone is clicking thumbs down on posts just because they don’t like what this site stands for. For that reason, from now on, if I see anyone with a negative rating on a post, whether I agree with it or not, I’m going to give it a thumbs up without even bothering to read it first. I hope others of you will do the same. Let’s get show the people who come here to be negative that this isn’t the place to be like that.
@td777 … This seems so trivial as I post this …. As far as the thumbs down thing. I’ve posted on this site and never had a thumbs down … This morning I simply posted in response to Robert Curtis’ post about the dog registry.
Needed to express my own situation about two registries in our lives … Our dog and my fiancé, it’s all crazy. Yes, I’m looking forward to the first relief we get in January for the dog after only three years …. I can’t imagine what it would feel like for my fiancé after almost 25! The day will come … We hope … He’s 45 today, that would be the fiancé not the dog, lol! … It WILL happen before our time is over … And if not for us, hopefully for those individuals who may make a grave mistake …. Yet will have the tiered registry from those who showed up, spoke up and stood up!
Evil defeated…I hope!
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/us/politics/house-defeats-a-farm-bill-with-big-food-stamp-cuts.html?_r=0
As many on this board certainly know, this psychotic hysteria about sex offenders is far and away overblown and over prioritized and twisted all out of proportion. This is simply because anything to do with sex is always the most hypable thing to use — yes, use, as in use to manipulate people. Consider the draconian SOR regulations on even the lowest level registrants, as compared to a murderer who is released after a prison term and not subject to anything like this, at least not once off parole! You are dealt with more harshly if you wag your weenie than you are if you murder someone.
In that vein, I found some comments by a woman in San Francisco (she goes by the name Gypsy Taub) who has been fighting against the new ordinance there banning public nudity to ring clear. Although she is fighting a ban on simple nudity, not the state law against indecent exposure, the point remains completely applicable to state “sex offenders” or those who are simply registrants now. So, I wanted to share an except for her comments, made in a speech last Thursday at the latest of their regular protests in SF against that ban on nudity. She fully understands and makes the point of how ridiculous and blown out of proportion these laws are simply because of the culture’s attitudes about sex, not necessarily because of any real justification:
Here we go again,what new law will come from this? http://news.yahoo.com/sex-offender-charged-fla-girls-death-195335625.html
Clearly this man was a repeat offender. He was also clearly a danger to children since his very first offense was attempted kidnapping. He is the type of criminal who should have been monitored. He was a repeat offender and what did he do…repeat offend again only this time he killed someone.
So what can we learn…simple. Do NOT treat ALL sex offenders the same! Easy lesson really…concentrate on the most dangerous. Clearly there are tens of thousands who are listed and yet are NOT like this sick individual.
If the system worked correctly those who are little or no risk would drop off the list quickly or not have to register at all after being cleared or doing their sentence. The list should be for those who are actually a danger. As it stands the list is useless to anyone!
The ones to blame for this girls death are the members of the Florida legislation who crafted and support a clearly flawed system. They failed her – they are responsible in part for her murder.
Let’s hope politicians will do their real jobs and serve the people instead of themselves! Lets hope they will learn and accept the fact and not just use the sex offender list to advance their careers! Well, we can hope right…even though history sadly usually repeats itself!
What is clear is that registry does not work…that dude was within
parole control…their taxpayer paid public personnel failed in their
job within parole…within parole…are we clear..??….there is NO degree or level or risk finding by any jury or court to
assign most dangerous ……due process would demand it…
if this is suppose to be a team….segregating or throwing
fellow teammates under the bus to your benefit says alot
your ‘team’ effort and selfishness and betrayal.
America Land of the Free
I read an article today about an affluent neighborhood in California and how the city council was voting on an ordinance that would make it illegal to panhandle in their city. It got me thinking about how things are currently going in the U.S. I thought to myself what if I built a city and was allowed to pick my neighbors. Imagine it yourself if you can. What would your perfect City include? Would it include Nascar drivers? Would you surround yourself with Police Officers, F.B.I. and C.I.A agents? If you are a young single man would all your neighbors be Super Models and if you are a young single woman would you have Justin Beibers and Brad Pitt types running around everywhere? Would you allow only those who made over a million dollars a year in? Would you require that every house had a Tennis Court and a Swimming Pool? How about if you had a dislike for the colors blue and brown? Would you make it illegal to have a brown or blue house or car, or even a brown dog for that matter? Or maybe you would just make all pets Illegal? Would you require that any one with an I.Q under genius not be allowed to enter your City.
Now lets get to the Juicy stuff shall we. If you were Asian would you only allow Asians in your city and would all Asians be allowed or just the rich ones? If you were Black would you allow white people but not Mexicans or Asians? What about ex bank robbers, Car thieves, politicians and other felons would they be welcome?
Here’s an Idea just create two Cities, in one you can pick every one you would like to live with and in the other City every one else could live. You could have it all Democrat or all Republican whichever you prefer. That would teach the darn democrats you would make them live with all the people you considered below standard for your City. You could surround yourself with Christians. No other Religions allowed. So if somebody were a Christian but if they were also a Republican they would be banished to City number two. If the person did not meet all the specified requirements they would be tossed out. So now you have your perfect City. All white Christian Democrats that have no pets and no brown or blue cars or houses.
That my friend’s is what all these City Councils are aiming for. So watch out because you and your family could be next when they banish all families with more than two children? Because after all is said and done they do not give a darn about the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. The only thing they care about is complete control over how you live with one goal in mind, Making themselves happy and to heck with everyone elses wishes.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/fla-county-outs-sex-offenders-yard-signs-article-1.1320230
An interesting article I ran across. Wonder how soon some city in California will try this.
According to statistics it is safer to live next to an RSO than many other groups of people. Take for example NFL Players their arrest rate is huge percentile wise. Police officers are probably up there too. And even though they are not arrested politicians are probably the most criminally active of all groups.
Boise, Idaho
June 28, 2013
Gender plays role in sentencing of Idaho female sex offender:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Gender-plays-role-in-sentencing-of-Idaho-female-sex-offender-213539491.html
“I think that the state believes there should be some measure of equality or parity when a judge sentences a male sex offender who violates little girls versus a female sex offender who violates young boys. There is a difference. I have a difficult time articulating precisely what that difference is. It’s difficult to try to explain what that difference is, but nevertheless I think we know there’s a difference,” (Judge) Wilper said.
I believe that the prosecutor should raise a Daubert motion here. What is a mandatory minimum sentence for an adult who supplies alcohol for eight minors and commits statutory rape with them? In front of their own children none the less! It’s a humanity issue. Not a male vs. female issue.
This ruling is a ridiculous.