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Dial-in number: 1-712-770-8055, Conference Code: 983459

Monthly Meetings: April 20 – Phone meeting, May 18 – Sacramento, July 20 – Berkeley [details]

Emotional Support Group Meetings – Los Angeles:  Apr 27  [details]

ACSOL Conference June 14/15 in Los Angeles

General News

Survey – International Travel after IML

If you have traveled to a foreign country after President Obama signed HR 515 / International Megan’s Law into law on February 8, 2016, please complete this survey to help gather details about the effects of this legislation. We will also share this data with the RTAG group for incorporation into their travel matrix. Thank you.

Go to International Travel Survey

Join the discussion

  1. JM

    I have a question to ask…and I hope someone has an answer. If a lifetime RSO from Michigan has a plan of moving overseas, let’s say in Europe or in Hong Kong. Does he need to inform the authorities that he will move abroad and has no plan of coming back? And, if the authorities would allow him to live overseas, would his name be still in the Michigan Sex Offender Registry? Or would he be removed?

    • AJ

      @JM:
      “If a lifetime RSO from Michigan has a plan of moving overseas, let’s say in Europe or in Hong Kong. Does he need to inform the authorities that he will move abroad and has no plan of coming back?”
      —–
      Yes. The law is you must notify of international travel, not just roundtrip travel. You would just somehow state return date as “none” or “none anticipated.”

      =====
      And, if the authorities would allow him to live overseas, would his name be still in the Michigan Sex Offender Registry? Or would he be removed?
      —–
      I’m not sure which “authorities” you mean. US authorities have no say in the matter if you’re off supervision. If you mean the other country’s authorities, that’s up to the other country. Finally, whether or not you remain on MI’s ML is dependent on MI’s laws. Do they allow de-registration if you move to another State, or are you kept on forever like FL, LA, WI, NY, etc? If you can de-register for a domestic move, you can do so for an international one. Just be aware you would be required to re-register upon entering US sovereignty.

      • TS

        @JM

        Est or scheduled time to return to the USA: TBD

      • RegistrantNotAnOffender

        Correct. I was told though if you have to register for 20 years, the clock stops if you go out of the country and stop registering annually.

        • Will Allen

          That sounds completely wrong. And also idiotic. Whomever said it must’ve forgotten the big lie that the Registries are not for punishment.

        • AJ

          @RegistrantNotAnOffender:
          “the clock stops if you go out of the country and stop registering annually.”
          —–
          Yes, at least a few States have this clause, but I’m more than willing to bet it’s unconstitutional. I’ve gone into the details behind that enough before, and recently, so unless someone asks, I’ll save my fingers and your eyeballs from it.

        • registerednotanoffender

          @AJ,

          It’s good to know I can ask someone. I appreciate a man who does his homework.

      • NY won’t let go

        I can answer about the second part, once you move out of Michigan they take you off their registry.

        I went from Michigan to NY, big mistake NY doesn’t take you off when you leave if you’re on there except in one case that I know of but I can’t afford a federal suit in my case.

        • Dennis

          Should I just wait until I’m off Michigans registry to move to NY?

  2. JM

    @AJ
    and
    @NYwon’tletgo

    Thank you so much! =)

    My next question is…If the RSO decide to come back to visit, is there a grace period on when should he re-register? Or is it determined by the state he’s visiting? Also, do customs harass ex-pat SO as well?

    • NY won’t let go

      I’m not too sure on a grace period but I think it depends what state.

      I have no intention of setting foot back in the US even as a layover.

      My family is well aware of the situation and know if they wanna see me to come and visit.

      Customs so far living out of the country and traveling haven’t given me a second glance.
      Except Singapore they looked at me really hard because my passport picture doesn’t look much like me anymore.

      The last time I went back to the US though they kept me in secondary for about 2 hours. Asked if I knew I was on the registry. Asked how long I was in jail. Then they apologized and let me on my merry way. The shitty part is the waiting for them to ask you a couple questions. The actual person who questioned me was nice and has a brother on the list so he understood why my passport got flagged coming back in.

    • AJ

      @JM:
      You’re more than welcome. At times we’re all each of us has; we need to support each other in any way we can, as we can.

      “If the RSO decide to come back to visit, is there a grace period on when should he re-register?”
      —–
      I *believe* you would have the same grace period as anyone relocating domestically, though I highly recommend checking AWA to see if there are Federal timelines. To my recollection, AWA defers to the jurisdictions on this.
      =====

      “Also, do customs harass ex-pat SO as well?”
      —–
      If they can, they will. You might be able to escape such scrutiny if you don’t have a marked passport…but I doubt it because you’ll still be in the omnibus database they use. IOW, chances are you’ll get the “scenic route” through customs.

  3. NotEasilyOffended

    Scheduled Travel to Belize.

    My conviction is from 2003, Federal Courts, single count of possession of child pornography. Served 2yrs federal prison time, completed 4yrs probation, completed sex offender therapy program. As a California resident, I am required to register but I am not on the Megan’s Law website.

    My passport was expired and I knew that renewing could come with the sex offender identifier. I renewed last August (2018), sending in my expired passport, and received my new passport in a timely fashion. It did NOT come with any endorsements. In fact, I had also requested a passport card as I am in California and occasionally travel to Mexico by car (never any issues going south, the usual 2-hr BS in secondary coming back north); I received the passport card as well but later read that anyone under the new endorsement law is not eligible for a card as there is no means to mark or endorse it. I was very pleased that I did not meet the requirements for a marked passport.

    After my last trip to Mexico, several years ago, I did request a DHS TRIP (REDRESS) number, but I have no idea if this actually does anyone any good or not (Google it if you want to learn more).

    I did some research online and reviewed the travel matrix. I learned that Belize was open to registered citizens from other countries and no one reported ever having an issue. The only negative I could find is that Belize did recently enacted their own sex offender registry. My travel friends are aware of my limitations and Belize was acceptable all around. Tours were book, airline tickets purchased, accommodations reserved.

    As per SORNA, I notified my registering agency 21 days in advance of travel with our itinerary. It is unsettling that we are required by law to make this notification but there is no receipt or acceptance letter issued. I did call a few days after sending in my request and confirmed they had received it and dutifully recorded who I spoke with.

    I continued to search online for issues regarding travel to Belize and, once again, only found positive reports. Some RCs even recommended Belize as a good option for international travel. I was looking forward to this as the weather there is amazing and there are many tourist activities that sounded amazing (tubing through caves, secluded beaches, zip-lining, scuba diving).

    Then it happened. The airlines called. I don’t know exactly what was said because my friend was the contact person, but the jist was that the airlines was contacted by Belize and that based on an INTERPOL report I was not eligible to enter the country. This occurred 2 days prior to our departure date. The airlines, for their part, was very sympathetic and provided a refund on my non-refundable ticket. I am thankful that even though it was last minute, I was given warning. How much worse it would have been to have reached our destination airport only to be escorted immediately back onto a return flight.

    I was feeling pretty confident based on my anecdotal/internet research, not being listed on our state’s website, a non-contact conviction, and received a “clean” passport. I had traveled, a few years ago, via cruise ship, to several Western Caribbean islands without difficulty (except for the usual US Customs BS). It was disheartening, of course, and just another kick by a system that really serves no purpose. I will attempt to obtain a copy of the INTERPOL report, to ensure it was at least accurate, but I’ve already read it is a difficult task to accomplish.

    So, let me be the first (I believe) to report here that Belize is now a No-Go. I wonder if I will soon receive a revocation letter regarding my passport, I will update this post if I do.

    It is possible to live and be happy with 290: I have custody of my children, own a business (I’ll admit getting a “job” can be difficult), have many supportive friends/family/neighbors, own my home, and am a productive member of my community. It never ceases to amaze me though at how many roadblocks are put in our way to happiness.

    Good luck to all of you and I’m willing to answer any follow-up questions you might have regarding this trip (although I tried to be thorough).

    And, again, for anyone just skimming the articles, I was denied entry, via phone call, into Belize in January 2019.

    • Will Allen

      Well, very nice that they actually informed you in advance. I think we’ve all heard many stories of people having to turn around in airports.

      What a pile of manure this all is though. Who are the “people” who are pushing this? We all need to understand that those people are enemies of good Americans. We all need to understand that those people are a danger. They deserve and need to be punished. Let’s not let them hide within their big governments.

      We all also need to keep all of this in mind when one of those blowhard big government employees is being interviewed and talking about how they are doing X, Y, and Z at the border to keep us “safe” that THEY are THOSE people. They are the people who are doing nothing useful except giving themselves jobs. They are never to be trusted, for anything. They are useless harassers. We’ve got to do what we can to keep money out of the hands of big government. We’ve got to shrink big government.

    • CDC Alum

      Was there a California form for your SORNA 21-day travel notice? If so, where did you get it?

      • NotEasilyOffended

        There was a brief one-page form that was provided to me by the agency I register with.

        • CDC Alum

          Thanks. I requested a form from my local (CA) registering agency, and was sent a one-page PDF by email which has no identifier other than “(Orig. 07/2016)” in the upper left corner. It looks vaguely federal.

          I was told in the email by the detective that I could fill it in, scan it, and mail it back to the same detective that sent it to me, even though the form says on its face: “..submit this form in person or send via certified mail..”.

          I questioned this, and the detective wrote that my email would be proof of the date I had sent it in. I think I’ll ask for an emailed acknowledgement when I do.

    • Chris

      Well, that is disheartening news. Was hoping to plan a trip there later this year myself. Have you made any attempt to contact Belizean authorities to ask about the denial and what their current law states?

      • NotEasilyOffended

        I have yet to do more than update you all and Janice. There is an avenue to request a copy of one’s Interpol report but they solicit clearance from the originating organization (DHS?) before they will honor the request; to me, setting you up for a denial. I will look into requesting information from the Belizian Govt as well and will update this post with my results (or lack/denial there of).

    • Manuel

      I was reading your report and notice that you still register( As a California resident, I am required to register)this is you if you look at this information you will see that you are a covered sex offender according to section (c) Defined terms
      In this section-

      (1) the term “covered sex offender” means an individual who-

      (A) is a sex offender, as defined in section 21503(f) of title 34; and

      (B) is currently required to register under the sex offender registration program of any jurisdiction;

      that’s why you were not eligible to enter the country you may want to see this http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title22-section212b&num=0&edition=prelim

      • NotEasilyOffended

        I appreciate the link you provided and read the information on that page. However, I’m not sure what you were attempting to illustrate.

        Yes, I am an RSO. I applied for a new passport and was issued one without the unique identifier. Perhaps they will revoke it, I don’t know.

        I notified my registering agency in advance of my intended travel and I am aware this is forwarded to Angel Watch, who in turn notifies the receiving country (in my case, Belize).

        Being an RSO does not categorically prevent entry to all countries, each has their own criteria and use the Angel Watch information differently. Historically, Belize was a country that did allow RSO citizens from other countries to visit.

        As there seems to be no reliable or official avenue to discern which countries will allow entry and which will not, we registered citizens must rely on reports from each other, anecdotal evidence as it were, to base our travel decisions on.

        • TR

          @NotEasilyOffended
          You can expect that all of Latin American countries are turning registrants away due to the effects of IML, but someday change will come.

  4. Illinois Contact

    RTAG has retained an attorney in Mexico and is seeking to raise funds. Please see below.

    From:
    Date: January 14, 2019 at 9:53:58 PM CST
    To: “latin Travel”
    Subject: [FWD: RV: Plan of Action from Matt and Luis, Business Plan from Luis]

    We put on retainer an American Lawyer based in Mexico city who will work with an immigration lawyer and Mexican Immigration to hope fully reverse the worst aspects of International Megan’s Law and how it applies to registrant travel to Mexico. Details are below. I have sent my own personal funds to get things started.

    We need a total of $ 2,000 and have sent $ 500. So, small $ 10 or $ 20 donations from a few registrants is all we need. Please donate what you can and spread the word.

    http://registranttag.org/donate/

    Paul Rigney
    Registrant Travel Action Group, Inc
    rigneyp@registranttag.org
    214-624-2552
    ———————————————————————————————————————————

    Paul:

    I attach a Plan of Action authored by Luis and myself, based on our discussions with you.

    We are open to any further questions and are ready to provide any additional information.

    Kind regards and Happy New Year,
    Matt Ameika

    ———————————————————————————————————————————

    Dear Paul Rigney:

    We will thoroughly investigate the Angel Guardian program in Mexico, analyzing the effects of Angel Guardian on the local, state, and especially federal level. Then, we will present you and your organization with a comprehensive report, outlining suggested plans of action. We will also examine International Megan’s Law and Angel Watch in the United States and in Mexico, where possible.

    In particular, Luis will interview Federal government members and INM (Instituto National de Migracion) officers. INM is the government organization responsible for visitors coming into Mexico. We will examine the system of “Alerts” between Mexico and the US, so that we can understand exactly how “Alerts” are assigned to an individual entering Mexico. Also, I will investigate the FBI method of reporting convicted sex crime criminals as opposed to those who are on the sex crimes registry without a conviction. We will attempt to convince Mexican authorities to understand the differences between a hardened sex crime offender and someone who was arrested many years ago for a statutory age difference resulting in a sex crime conviction in the US, as well as other distinctions. This will take time.

    Most importantly, we will apply for visas for individuals in your organization based on our investigation and report. If we can convince the government to allow 5 people with a similar sex offender background into Mexico, this creates a precedent for changes in the law in Mexico. Because many visa applications will create controversy, we are ready to escalate the process if the applicant is refused. The escalation would be an “Amparo,” a lawsuit of sorts against both the authorities refusing the visa and the Mexican government. Victory in these lawsuits would pave the way for progress in admitting sex crime offenders into Mexico as tourists, family members of Mexicans, Residency visas, Refugees, and Asylum Visas.

    Luis’s law firms, JAI International, has associates extremely experienced in these types of legal proceedings. The associates have agreed to take these Amparos, should they arise.

    More than anything else, we will work for justice on behalf of sex crime offenders trying to enter Mexico and use every power in the Mexican, and, if necessary, American legal arsenal. As client advocates, justice is not only our job, but our belief.

    Please let us know when you would like to get started. Both Luis and I stand ready for any questions you or others may have.

    Sincerely,
    Matt Ameika
    Luis Fernández
    Attorneys at Law

    • AJ

      @Illinois Contact:
      Thanks for posting this. Though I have no plans to go to Mexico anytime soon, I’m chipping in. Any progress and pushback against the US oppression is money well-spent!

      • Illinois Contact

        Recent email exchange with Paul Rigney of RTAG:

        Just sent a contribution. Please let me know of your progress and I can send more money.

        Why not do the same thing in other countries (hire a local attorney, etc)? So many places might be opened to us with this approach.

        ————————————————————————————————————————–

        I have read many people on the ACSOL blog bemoaning newly announced (on the RTAG site) no-go on Belize. My wife and I and our son have visited the enchanted rain forests and would love to visit again.

        Might this be another target of a local attorney, like your new Mexican effort? Since the barring of sex offenders was recent, maybe it’s possible to overturn this dreadful decision.

        ————————————————————————————————————————–

        rigneyp@registranttag.org

        Yes. That is our intent. Based on how this goes, we will use the same formula for other countries.
        ————————————————————————————————————————–

        Great news, Paul. Here’s my personal wish list: UK, Vietnam, Costa Rica, Belize. Canada maybe already can be done with their Rehabilitation for Persons Who Are Inadmissible to Canada Because of Past Criminal Activity program.

        https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5312-rehabilitation-persons-inadmissible-canada-past-criminal-activity.html

        Can you recommend a lawyer to help with that — my wife and I used to love seeing the plays at the Stratford Festival before my conviction in 2006.

        While I have your attention, we have discussed the issue of cruises. At my advancing age (76) that’s becoming an attractive travel option, but I’m concerned about some lines barring us and also stopping for excursions in countries where we would ordinarily be denied entry. Now, I have read that you don’t have to go through customs in each port, just use your ship ID. You had said you might add a section to the RTAG website listing cruise ships yes/no.

        Thank you so much for your work in this area. I’ll send another contribution, and encourage everyone who is also concerned about being held captive in our own country to do the same.

        ————————————————————————————————————————–
        Please donate what you can and spread the word.

        http://registranttag.org/donate/

        • Dustin

          Quick question. I know that Mexico has always been turning registrants away. With that being said, a friend of mine who happens to be on the registry in my state is in Cancun Mexico right now as of 2/22/19. He is on the registry for life, and is listed as a Tier 3 (which is suppose to be the “worse”). Like me, he was sentenced under a program called the Holmes Youthful Training Act. The records are sealed from public view, however we are still required to be listed on the PUBLIC registry for life (makes no sense.. I know).

          I don’t want him to know that I know he’s on the registry, but I’m just wondering how the HELL he got in. I thought Mexico was turning ALL registrants away. Because his status is public, and even the sealed record is open to law enforcement, FBI , etc, I am curious as to HOW he got in.

          He did fly into Mexico. He got there yesterday and has already checked into his Hotel and is out sipping martinis on the beach. His charge is Criminal Sexual Conduct (including force and coercion) with victim 13-15. Did Mexico just so happen to overlook this by accident? Are there any others that can chime in on this?

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          Dustin, I tend to think that the reason why your friend got into Mexico is that government is neither the model of efficiency nor intelligence. In other words, their system doesn’t always work. For that, we should be grateful while never completely relying upon its incompetence.

  5. JM

    So, you are still in the New York SO Registry, right? But somehow, Singapore allowed you to enter in their country? That’s great! Coz according to RTAG Matrix, SO is not allowed in SN.

    Do you guys think it is possible for a SO to acquire citizenship from other country? Or do you think an SO will have a problem in acquiring Permanent Residence in Europe or some Asian countries?

    I did my research but I know that personal experience will give me better answers to my questions.
    Thanks in advance!

    • PK

      “Do you guys think it is possible for a SO to acquire citizenship from other country? Or do you think an SO will have a problem in acquiring Permanent Residence in Europe or some Asian countries?”

      Do you think it’s going to be ‘smooth sailing’ or something?

      If you are married in the foreign country, it would make things a lot easier.

    • Will Allen

      Sorry I don’t have any personal experience with any Registered person attempting to get citizenship in a different country.

      But I would like to think and hope that there are countries in the world that are a lot more advanced and civil than Amerika and that you could apply to them for asylum from illegal persecution in Amerika. I do think there are plenty of countries that are much more moral than Amerika so I’d think there would be a better chance with them.

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      JM, Sadly, I do not think that it is likely that registrants can attain citizenship, or even permanent residency, in any country with which I am familiar. I have never seen any description of immigration policies that do not include that country’s scrutiny of comprehensive criminal records which come directly from the U.S. Department of Justice/FBI. Whether or not a particular country is less hysterical about sex crimes ultimately has little to do with their process for approval of permanent residency or citizenship applications. It doesn’t even seem to matter if that country is widely viewed as a “basket case” by world standards, they still guard their immigration controls jealously. The only factor which I have not fully taken into account during my own searches for another country is that of marriage to a national. However, I know that many countries do not give that factor so much weight that a U.S. Registrant would be welcome as a spouse. Further, the IML makes it extremely easy for a country to exclude us even for the purpose of visiting, and many (most?) are doing just that. That means that even getting into a country for the purpose of overstaying a tourist visa or possibly meeting a national for the purpose of marriage are greatly diminished. What was once possible is now highly improbable. I am not at all optimistic about emmigration from the U.S. as a way to gain relief from our oppression in the U.S. and I have been following this topic for decades. The only thing I can recommend now is to join together in the fight to restore our civil rights.

      • anonymous

        When last I looked into the idea of emigrating, one country stood out for the relative ease of obtaining citizenship: Sweden. The only character requirement for citizenship looked at your conduct *while in Sweden*.
        Also, Iceland required a criminal background check, but a criminal record only disqualified you for a certain number of years, and then only if the crime was punishable by (I think, I’m going by memory here) more than two years under Icelandic law.

        The hardest part is getting permission to live there in the first place. You would need a job in the country that allowed you to support yourself. You have to live there so many years before you can be considered for citizenship (five years for Sweden and 10 years for Iceland, I think), and time spent with tourist or student status does not count toward that time.

        Also, I seem to remember reading that Germany does not require submission of FBI checks for their applications. You need to submit your German criminal record, which would hopefully be non-existent. As far as I know, they are one of the only European countries that allows you to change status while in the country. So you can go in as a tourist, find a job, and then apply for a work permit while still in the country. Japan is the same way, if they permit you to enter in the first place.

    • NY won’t let go

      Yes they let me into SIngapore,but honestly it wasn’t worth the trip. The food was way over priced and just getting through immigration took 2 hours due to the massive amount of people and only 2 counters open.

      There are a few places on the RTag list I have gone that said people were turned away, I may just have been lucky as none of the countries here except Japan have a direct link to the US criminal database.

      I’m still on the fence about trying for Japan as my sentence was less that a year which would technically let me in, but the plead I took might bar me.

      And the landing card you have to let them know if you have ever had a crime anywhere.

      Acquiring citizenship, the easiest route would be to be insanely rich, or marry a local as PK has said. Some countries it takes longer than others. My current country the average time to get PR is about 8-14 years of living here. Citizenship you need to add on another 10-15years for that to get approved.

      Luckily they base it off your behavior while living here and I can actually apply for a cert of good conduct from here.

      • JM

        @NY won’t let go
        Thank you so much for all that info…very much appreciated. I have a few more questions here that you or others may have the answers…
        > May I know how did you get off the “watch lists” and other “notices”?
        > What steps that needs to take after notifying authorities one last time that im leaving the country?
        > Are there any websites/organizations that needs to contact or petition for registry removal?

        I am not sure where to start =(
        Btw, the conviction has nothing to do with minor.

        Thanks in advance.

        • NY won’t let go

          The watchlists I am not sure of, I haven’t had issue going to the countries I’ve gone to, although I was terrified about some of them. I think the botices only get sent out when you leave the US initially.

          I notified them I was going on vacations, after that notified them again that I wouldn’t be coming back after I had already left the country.

          They told me to email them an updated address form and to continue updating them every time I moved. Every three years I am to send them a selfie along with any updates in address, email, phone number, cars, etc. which I think is ridiculous.

          Am am still on the NY registry because of their loophole thanks to Doe v O’Donnell.

          Sorry can’t be of much more help, for getting off the registry it just depends what state you’re coming from. If it’s like Michigan, once you move out of state they take you off.

      • Dennis

        Do you think that it’s because your a level 1 on a non-public registry? Have you tried out other countries or Cruise lines(which is not operated by the govenment)? I would definately be interested to know. Only law enforcement can see your record, and others would have to call the police to see if your on registry

        I’m asking as I want to move there from Michigan due to better job, but the horror stories you give sometimes makes me second guess

        • NY won’t let go

          I’m a level 2 in NY, I moved out of the country already working on my 3rd year. Still on their list. I’ve had no issues since moving out of the country as people outside the US don’t care as much about poking into each other’s lives unless the person is famous. Supposed to go on a local cruise here soon. That just asks for drivers license for check in.

          But I’ve been to a good number of countries that have been said to bar people on the registry since moving out of the country. Haven’t had issues going even though I was petrified. But as no green notices were sent out I haven’t had issue. I would advise you to look for a job in Germany live there for 5 years, get married there and apply for citizenship.

          Bypass New York if you can I wish I went from Michigan straight out of the country instead of stopping in NY to work

        • Relief

          @NY wont let go: Thanks for all your postings and information. It’s very unfair that you are still listed on NY, hopefully this will be resolved for you at some point. For now, congratulations on at least being in a different country.

          I believe you are somewhere in ~Asia and it is fortunate that you can travel to some other countries without a green notice. The USA CBP runs the airlines APIS system (Advance Passenger Information System) for about 27 countries. They are all tied in to the NCIC database via CBP and would/could deny entry regardless of a ‘green notice’.

          As everyone here is just trying to just understand the ‘system’ which never gives any information, when you have time, could you please tell us if you have ever traveled to one of these ‘APIS’ countries? They are listed here:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Passenger_Information_System

          This info many also be helpful to you so as not to get an entry denial on one of your travels.
          Again, congratulations on being ‘semi-free’ and thanks for your postings.

  6. Mike G

    I finally went in today to apply for a replacement passport for the one that was revoked last April. If you have ever been issued a passport, but don’t have the passport with you when you apply, you have to fill out a form DS-64 explaining how your previous passport was lost or stolen. Of course, mine was neither, so I left both boxes blank. When interviewed for my application, the person said “So how was your passport lost?” and I said, “It wasn’t lost – it was revoked”. She was a little taken aback, and said “So is it okay for you to have one now?”, and I said “Yes, they told me I could apply for another one”. She said “Ok”, and went ahead and processed my application. I guess she assumed it was revoked because of some bad thing I had done, but thankfully, no discussion of IML or RCs came up. I’ll post again when I actually get it and see what it looks like.

    Btw, I do have permanent residency in Mexico. I got my “green card” about 5 years ago, 20 years after my “crime” but before IML. I also have a residence in Mexico, but because of IML, I have been afraid to go there for the last year (my wife has gone down a few times to check on it). For me to visit legally, I would have to give the 21 day notice, and the last thing I want is for someone to notify the Mexican government that I am coming. I want to stay far under the radar in Mexico, as we are planning to move there if and when I can get off this damn California registry.

  7. DD

    Does anyone know if IML applies to a person that is no longer required to register? The passport marker does not seem to apply but 21 day notice may apply. Can someone please clarify and post any sources where you got this information from. Thanks guys

    • RegistrantNotAnOffender

      Did your offense involve a minor? I thought the identifier says this person has been convicted of a sex offense against a minor. Even if you dont register anymore, unless you get it expunged it would still be a conviction on record.

  8. Mike G

    The two requirements that make someone subject to IML:

    1) You are required to register (either locally or in some previous state that won’t let you off).

    2) Your offense involved a minor (federal definition = under age 18).

    If either of those doesn’t apply, you are not subject to IML.

    Keep in mind: Angel Watch is not tied to IML – they could still send notices when you fly out of the country if they feel like it.

    • NY won’t let go

      My concern from the beginning with IML has been, how does the effect those of us that don’t live in the country anymore but are still stuck on a registry for some reason?

      Have talked to a few lawyers and emailed DHS and the registry which I’m stuck on and none could/would give me an answer.

  9. km

    Quick summary of my situation:

    1. Cal PC 647.6 (misdemeanor conviction) registered once, then moved out-of-state
    2. not registered in the state i currently live (state board said i am not required to)
    3. not listed on any ML websites

    Now my question:

    Am I still subject to IML?

    • Mike G

      @km
      As long as you informed California when you moved out of state, and you are sure they removed you from their registry as a result (do you have any paperwork to support that?), then you should be in the clear from IML.

      • km

        That is where the question comes in. California doesn’t deregister you when you leave. I recently just found out im still on their registry, albeit with an old out of state address and nothing has been updated in 3 years.

        IML says that I am susceptible if I am required to register in any jurisdiction. Well Im not required anymore because California only requires I register if I live there and my current state said I am not. The problem is, California still has me in their system- just not on Megans Law website because I was exempted.

        • AJ

          @km:
          “IML says that I am susceptible if I am required to register in any jurisdiction. Well Im not required anymore because California only requires I register if I live there and my current state said I am not.”
          —–
          You seem to be answering your own question. You may be on CA’s registry, but are not required to register there. From what you’ve said, you’re not required to register in any jurisdiction. That would seem to be your answer. Unfortunately, nobody seems quite sure.

          “Overbroad and unconstitutionally vague” is ringing in my ears…

  10. DD

    Thanks for the response,very much appreciated. As far as the passport marker is concerned, I read the law and it seems to be exactly as Mike g stated. As far as the 21 days notice goes, I think it’s incorporated into sorna and it seems that there is no exemption to sorna because we are held personally liable to be compliant, whether you get off your state registry or not. I hope I’m wrong but I think we’re f*****d no matter what we do. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

  11. Mike G

    Hello,
    Wondering if anyone has recent experience entering Croatia. It is not Schengen, and is not listed on RTag. I’m scheduled to visit there in September as part of a European tour.

    Also, does anyone know of anyone being turned away from Celebrity Cruise Lines?

    Thanks.

    • steve @Mike G

      I am going to Croatia in June…I’ll let you know.

    • brunello

      A year or two ago I traveled into Croatia by bus. As I recall, the Croatian border guy just came into the bus and stamped passports as necessary. No problem at all.

      • Mike G

        @brunello – Thanks for the info. I just hope the marked passport doesn’t change things 🙁

  12. Jon

    LEGAL RESEARCH
    Seeking two persons to share in legal research regarding SORNA and federal jurisdiction with the sole aim of seeking freedom through researching, drafting and filing court documents for the purpose of exiting the United States to live abroad.

    I signed a guilty plea agreement in 2006 for attempted lewdness with a minor and was released from prison in 2014. I am on lifetime supervision.

    Persons in Nevada preferred. 

    Note, must have at least 3 hours a week to commit for reading and reviewing a lawful strategy. 
    This is NOT a quick fix solution, it is a viable solution for those desiring freedom.

    PLEASE REPLY: freedombyscripture@yopmail.com (anonymous disposable email)

  13. America's Most Hated

    This is my new forums site to discuss travel matters. Please come chat.

    registranttravel.freeforum.net

  14. 2018 Travel Update

    Here’s my experience traveling in 2018. Took approximately 6 business trips, mainly to Europe, and provided 21-day notice, though did make some last-minute changes due to client demands or cheap airfare. Never had a problem getting into Europe and went to several different countries. Only issues were when returning, though once did not have to go through secondary! When I did go through secondary, it varied from quick look through my luggage to numerous questions that felt like an interrogation. I think 3 of those times they made calls to someone (2 of them I know where to my local registration contact.) I have yet to receive any letters about passport revocation so still do not have the stamp. Not sure why, I’m Tier 1 with CP charge, given probation (my situation was a bit unique compared to most and I’ve passed all the tests – those in treatment know what I’m talking about…), have to register for about 1 more year, but not on a public/online registry. While I expect a notice to come any day, holding my breath I make it 1 more year. I’ve traveled pretty extensively, was even allowed to travel internationally for work while on probation, so I have pretty much seen it all – being denied entry to a country, removed from an outbound flight from US for questioning but then allowed to get back on the flight (that was fun!), varying degrees of secondary searches (from very minor to feeling I just got a colonoscopy), etc… So much stress and I fear traveling but have to for work.
    Happy to answer any questions, but to everyone, there is hope though I worry every day it will go away and I will lose my means to provide for my family.

    • Interested

      So your background causing the registration was a misdemeanor CP offense? Just trying to assess my situation against yours. Thank you.

      • 2018 Travel Update

        Felony. Hard to access anything as things at times appear random. If you figure anything out please let us know.

  15. Illinois Contact

    How long will you been on registry when you get off? What state do you live in? Been to Portugal recently? My wife and I are planning a trip there this summer and I don’t anticipate problems. I don’t have the Passport mark — haven’t traveled abroad since that started. Any place you have been admitted outside Europe? Thanks for your very encouraging report.

    • 2018 Travel Update

      10 years. Western state. Yes to Portugal and no problem. Eastern Europe, West Africa, Middle East.

      • Mike G

        10 years? I’m guessing maybe Utah. My cousin there slept with his step-daughter from age 9 to age 16 (her mother worked a night shift). He got 10 years on the registry, then he’s all done. Me, I touch a little girl’s chest one time and I get lifetime registration. P.S. As soon as she turned 18, his step daughter moved back in with him.

      • Cam

        Hello there, have you traveled directly to France and had any issues? Also, have you gone to Tahiti or have any knowledge about traveling there as a RSO? Thank you. @2018 Travel Update

        • Warren

          I went to Tahiti and many of the French Polynesia islands (Such as Moorea, Raiatea, Bora Bora, etc.) last year and had no problems traveling as a RSO. Next trip in May/June is to Europe (Spain, France, Italy) and expect no problems.

  16. NY won’t let go

    Has anyone been to Saipan or Guam? I may have to go there for work but I really don’t want to go into US territory. Is it as bad or worse there for registrants? Was reading up a bit on their registries but I’m not sure if by their laws I would have to register.

    • AJ

      @NY won’t let go:
      I’d be careful were I you and given your concern about your future passport renewal. 1) you’ll be telling the US where you are; 2) if you’re “IML eligible” it may trigger a revocation process that seems triggered by crossing into the US and its various trophy properties.

      FYI: Saipan’s visa waiver (to spur tourism) allows Chinese nationals to travel there easily…and give birth to acquire US citizenship for their kiddos. (Do a search for “chinese birth tourism”.)

      • NY won’t let go

        @AJ Yeah that’s what I figured. I think I’ll just stay in my hidey hole and tell the boss I can’t go there. 😂😂

    • Same rules

      Guam is a U.S. territory, so U.S. laws apply. Their individual registrant guidelines can be found on line. I have been there while in military. It is a small place.

  17. Mike G

    I just received my new “Scarlet Letter” passport today. I was slightly encouraged that the “marking” is not near as obvious as I feared it would be. It was poorly printed. The top line was fairly light and didn’t quite completely print. It looks like it says “- Bearer of this passport was convicted of a SF offense against a minor”.
    I really doubt that anyone would notice the marking unless they were looking for it.

    Anyway, I’ll be trying it out for the first time in April. Would like to hear from anyone who has had a negative experience directly attributed to the marking.

    • Sex Offender Truth

      Good to hear that it is small but it will be accompanied by or proceeded by an Interpol Green Notice which will alert them to the fact even if they were to miss the mark at the end of the passport.

      Could you do me a favor and email a photo of the mark (just the mark with no identifying info) so that I can post it on SexOffenderTruth.com – I think that information would be very helpful to those such as myself who are in the same situation as yourself and need all of the information we can get so thank you in advance. Please send to admin@sexoffendertruth.com and thank you for your assistance.

      • Mike G

        @Sex Offender Truth

        I emailed it. Let me know if you didn’t get it.

        • Sex Offender Truth

          Received it – thank you. I will make a blog post so that others can see the exact placement, wording, and appearance of this pathetic bastardization of our travel document. Thank you Obama for signing this unnecessary prejudicial and oppressive law which allows for this shameful travesty.

    • MANUEL

      well Mike G here is the link to that “Scarlet Letter” print on passport https://sexoffendertruth.com/united-states-passport-sex-offender-identifier/

    • Major

      Mine is quite legible and they even stamped it TWICE.

  18. J.D.

    I just received my new passport last week. Prior to submitting the application, I had called the State Department to find out if there were special IML instructions so I was attempting to comply. The name page says endorsement on p. 27, but it is blank. I may not use it for awhile, but I am concerned about the cost RC’s are getting hit with for reissued passports. It is not my fault they didn’t print it. Could it be imbedded in the chip?

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      J.D., “Could it be imbedded in the chip?” It seems unlikely. I think you should count yourself lucky – so far. I’m not sure how many post-IML passports issued without the scarlet letter have later been recalled by State. Can you tell us something about your conviction and when it was, please?

      • PK

        @David,

        “you should count yourself lucky” hasn’t this mistake happened more than twice?

      • J.D.

        My conviction was 2005, victim under 14 in California. I served 10.5 years and 5 years of parole. DMV is such a mess, I decided a Passport was the way to go for airline travel in the USA for now.

    • DD

      Hey Jd, when did you apply for your passport? I applied 4 weeks ago and it says it’s still processing…. Its making me nervous given my status, I’m hoping it’s not getting delayed because of the identifier.

      • J.D.

        My conviction was 2005, victim under 14 in California. I served 10.5 years and 5 years of parole. DMV is such a mess, I decided a Passport was the way to go for airline travel in the USA for now.

      • J.D.

        I applied on Jan 21. It was regular service, not expedited. Arrived Feb. 7 Priority mail. You can have State Department notify you by email. Go to their website and track passport.

        • E @ JD

          Did your old passport get revoked via certified letter AND they then forgot to add the identifier? Or did you just apply for a new one? In the second case, it won’t get revoked until you use it.

      • RegistrantNotAnOffender

        Mine didn’t come until I forgot I applied. No identifier

  19. Mike G

    I will continue to feel that those who got new passports with no mark are lucky – until I hear of one being revoked again because of no mark. If they are really lucky, the State Department computer shows that they have a marked one, just someone forgot to print the mark – may be good for 10 years!

    Obviously, the seriousness of the offence is not a determining factor. I spent only 30 days in county jail, but they didn’t forget the mark on my passport.

    • e @ Mike G

      Until CBP sees it the first time and notifies State the sign of the beast is missing!

      • Mike G

        You may be right, if they are now instructed to look for it. In my several dozen experiences with CBP at Secondary Inspection, I have only seen them scan the passport and then look at their computer screen, not page through it.

        Worst case is it is revoked again, but if they have to pay again for another passport, there should be basis for some kind of claim or action.

  20. David

    I received a notice in my mailbox yesterday that I have a certified lettet from the Department of State awaiting my signature verifying receipt. I assume that it is either an offer of employment or an accommodation for being an excellent representative of the United States for exhibiting exemplary respect and courtesy to other cultures.
    Could I be mistaken? 🤔

    • PK

      @David

      When was the last time that you traveled?
      Did you provide advanced notice of your intended travel?

      • David

        @ PK: I returned from a trip to France four months ago. Yes, I had provided the required 21-day advance notification.
        (I am listed on the Forever Florida Registry, so it was just a matter of time before they revoked my passport [assuming the State Department’s letter is not, in fact, a job offer or an accommodation.])

        • Will Allen

          If you don’t need to travel any time soon, just ignore it. Maybe their software will trigger a remailing every couple of weeks. That would be fun to watch for a year or so. Eventually they might have to get a real person involved.

        • PK

          @Will- Or they could just revoke his passport anyway, and then the next time he’s waiting for his plane to leave, he’ll be yanked off!

        • Will Allen

          PK (February 19, 2019):

          I would expect that they would revoke his passport. I would expect that the only reason that they would not is if they could not legally do so without notifying him in advance. That was why I said that he should only consider ignoring it if he didn’t need to travel. And in any case, he needs to contact them before he tries to travel again. But I’d just wait if I could.

          Personally, I think it is great to ignore government as much and often as possible. Make their jobs hard. String them along. Cause them problems. It should be the goal of every person to make every government employee hate their jobs as much as possible. I’ve done a great job with that with our local law enforcement. Most of them hate their jobs and their turnover rate is outrageous. Their salaries are in the toilet. It’s great. It’s also amazing that we don’t have rampant crime. THAT is a real effect of the Registries. Concrete, real effect.

  21. E

    I have had my charge reduced to misdomeanor (311.11a) and am off public list. Can’t get expunged due to a 2015 conviction. Even with the legal system saying I am a low risk of re offending and no previous convictions for any offense, I can’t understand how the feds can justify sending a notice to another country saying that I am a danger to commit a crime.
    I simply can’t believe as smart as I am that I did this to myself! I love travel so much and it has been such a huge part of my life. I keep getting asked by friends in other countries when I will be visiting, and it kills me. I know “Fair” and “Just” are words never to be spoken on this site, but come on!

    • NotEasilyOffended

      It is true, on one hand, that these repercussions are a result of decisions we made. I remind myself of that as well. However, one could not ever have imagined the ever-expanding depth those repercussions would become.

      I sympathize with you regarding travel. I have a close family friend that has bought property in Belize, a country that is now refusing RC’s. I live in Southern California and often traveled to Mexico, another no-go (“Mexican Riviera” cruises were an inexpensive family favorite).

      And you are also correct that it seems ludicrous to imagine that a non-contact crime, many years ago, presents any danger to the citizens of a foreign country you might want to visit.

      Good luck.

    • David

      @ E: “E” is for Europe – a place you can still go. Yes, a lot of countries have banned us thanks to our own government, but we are still able to enter the European countries (that are arti3s to the Schengen Agreement).

      The 26 countries that are currently members of the Schengen agreement are Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.
      Apart from these countries, the Schengen area also includes the Caribbean islands that belong to France and the three European micro-states — Monaco, San Marino, and the Vatican City. These territories and micronations maintain open or semi-open borders for visitors.

      • AJ

        @David:
        From what I recall someone on here posting some time back, St. Martin/Sint Maarten is a no-go for RCs. That’s curious, given the mother countries being accepting.

  22. MANUEL 2

    Question: who has gone to Mexico after you have Deregister and not having problems? with flying . I will be going to Mexico on April I was Deregister in 2017 hopefully everything will be ok
    p.s I’m no longer in website in my home town or the national web

  23. Barb Wright

    What are the implications of the Alabama “compelled speech” ruling on the IML?

    • RegistrantNotAnOffender

      Pretty certain they arent related as one is a federal law and the other is a state law.

      • David

        Not so sure it’s different as the U.S. Constitution applies to both federal and state laws.

        • Registered notoffender

          Yes but SCOTUS would have to rule for an Alabama ruling to reach the west coast.

    • AJ

      @Barb Wright:
      “What are the implications of the Alabama ‘compelled speech’ ruling on the IML?”
      —–
      I suggest you check out comments and thoughts in the topic elsewhere on here: https://all4consolaws.org/2019/02/al-11th-circuit-determines-alabama-laws-to-be-punishment/

      ******

      @RegistrantNotAnOffender
      “Pretty certain they arent related as one is a federal law and the other is a state law.”
      —–
      That one is a State law and the other a Federal law doesn’t matter. Compelled Speech is Compelled Speech regardless what governmental entity does it–the Feds are just usually better at avoiding it than the States. It may apply, but one never knows unless and until going through the courts. IMO, it mostly aligns; however, diplomacy and interaction with foreign sovereigns (which is what a passport, and thus the IML marker, is) are often given great deference to the Executive Branch. It may be possible to combine a few things about IML to make headway, and Compelled Speech is but one possible element of an argument.

      • Chris f

        At this point, instead of playing whack a mole on the federal restrictions against sex offenders and state and even city restrictions, I think the best challenge is to lump it all together and challenge being put on “the list” that subjects one to all that.

        I think a combined substantive/procedural due process and equal protection challenge with a sprinkling of bill of attainder and separation of powers to slam it home should suffice. I guess we will see with Mike Rs challenge.

        It still perplexes me how no challenge I can find brings up the thought that legislature should require strict scrutinty for laws against someone due to prior conviction when those restrictions should be under control of the judge during sentencing. Otherwise, anyone with a conviction or deferred adjudication may have to check local and federal laws evey day and every time he travels anywhere…like only sex offenders have to do so far…

        Seems like a perfect place for a judge to say strict scrutiny is required to protect our concept of “ordered liberty”.

  24. Dustin

    Quick question. I know that Mexico has always been turning registrants away. I have never been, and not sure I even want to. With that being said, a friend of mine who happens to be on the registry in my state is in Cancun Mexico right now. He is on the registry for life, and is listed as a Tier 3 (which is suppose to be the “worse”)

    I don’t want him to know that I know he’s on the registry, but I’m just wondering how the HELL he got in. I thought Mexico was turning ALL registrants away. He did fly into Mexico. He got there yesterday and has already checked into his Hotel. His charge is Criminal Sexual Conduct (including force and coercion) with victim 13-15. Did Mexico just so happen to overlook this by accident? Are there any others that can chime in on this?

    • R M

      “I don’t want him to know that I know he’s on the registry…” Is it that maybe you don’t want him to know you know about him or that he may know about you? If you 100% do know that, be honest with him…. just say I know you’re an RC, but I don’t care so don’t worry, let’s talk.

      But then of course tell us all what he says about getting in… Inquiring minds wanna know…

    • AJ

      @Dustin:
      I agree with @R M in talking with your friend. It may help you both to have an empathetic and understanding ear. I once was looking at a registry and found someone in a position of trust who is on there (don’t ask). I approached him and said I, too, am on one. We’ve developed a very good relationship–probably one that would have been somewhat at arm’s length (on both sides) had I not broached it with him.

      And yes, it would be nice to find out how he managed to pull it off. Perhaps a “peso pasaporte”? (“Peso” in Spanish means “loaded”, “weight”, etc., in addition to being the Mexican currency. Thus he presented a loaded (bribing) passport. How’s that for a play on words? 😀 )

      • PK

        “I approached him and said I, too, am on one.”

        I approached him and said, I too am “”one””.

        • AJ

          @PK:
          Is there a problem? I told him I, too, am *on a registry*, not that I, too, am *a registrant.* Is there some other meaning or message to your post, or is it the snark it smells to be?

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          PK, I guess I’m not getting the point. It appears to be one of those curious distinctions without a difference.

        • PK

          AJ obviously didn’t mean to offend ….

          When you said “I approached him and said I, too, am on one” it wasn’t so clear as to you’re on what.

          If you would have said “I approached him and said, I too am one” would have been a little bit more concise as to mean “I am too an RSO” “I am too a Second Class Citizen” was my point.

        • TS

          But wait, I understood what @AJ was saying the first time when he wrote it without having to say “registry”.

        • AJ

          @PK:
          Thanks for clarifying. I was truly confused, as it seemed you were being snarky…and that’s outside your normal demeanor.

          I’ve shifted to a preference of indicating my presence on “their” registry, versus my being anything “they” call me. I cannot dispute being on the registry, but the rest I can. It’s a method of distancing myself and refusing to accept or acknowledgement what is claimed about me. Just my thing. So you see, there was meaning behind my words. 🙂

          I am not a, “Second Class Citizen,” despite any attempts by others and their claims and causes.
          There may be plenty of people outside the window who see me as such, but the one in the mirror does not see me that way. There are three people I try to keep happy and please: the first One is above me, the second one lies next to me in bed and shares life with me, and third one looks back in the mirror.

    • NotEasilyOffended

      One possibility is that your friend did not notify his registering agency 21 days prior to his trip and no INTERPOL Green Notice was issued (or not from a SORNA state). When he entered Mexico, they were not aware of his status. It will be interesting for him when it comes time to come home and he has to answer to US Customs.

  25. Dustin- MEXICO

    Quick question. I know that Mexico has always been turning registrants away. I have never been, and not sure I even want to. With that being said, a friend of mine who happens to be on the registry in my state is in Cancun Mexico right now. He is on the registry for life, and is listed as a Tier 3 (which is suppose to be the “worse”)

    I don’t want him to know that I know he’s on the registry, but I’m just wondering how the HELL he got in. I thought Mexico was turning ALL registrants away. He did fly into Mexico. He got there yesterday and has already checked into his Hotel. His charge is Criminal Sexual Conduct (including force and coercion) with victim 13-15. Did Mexico just so happen to overlook this by accident? Are there any others that can chime in on this?

    • E

      Everyone should remember that this is an open forum and others could and most likely are monitoring to find out “ things” that could hurt us. Please be careful in divulging information that could hinder travel. Sometimes a loophole is best kept quiet. Or maybe info offered is through email, where scrutiny is easier. Just a thought.

  26. 290 air

    For those of you wondering about Mexico and getting in, i think it’s completely random. I went 6 years ago before we had to give the 21 day notice in CA. I flew into Mexico City and they obviously knew I was coming even without the notice since they “greeted” me at the door getting off the plane. I was with my GF and they separated us, took me into a room for about 30-45 mins and asked me some questions. I kept telling them I was there on vacation with my GF. Finally once i started to speak Spanish to them it seemed like a “light” went on and they finally understood that it was, at the time 15 years since my crime and it was relatively minor when I explained the details. They had me sign a piece of paper and we were on our way to a week vacation. This was in Mexico City so I missed my connecting flight to Ixtapa, but the airline put us up in a really nice hotel. Good thing we did miss our flight because we came 1 day after a hurricane. The point of my story is it’s super random who you get and how they let people in or turn them away. I think speaking Spanish went a long way though.

  27. David

    For anyone interested, I was briefly “detained” and questioned by French police when I landed in Paris last September. (I wrote about it previously.) In December, I wrote to Interpol and asked for any documents relating to why I was detained & questioned. In January, they replied that they would research it and contact me. Then I received their answer last week. They said they had nothing in their records relating to me. …. but were quick to state that they would only have Interpol’s own records – that they do not have access to the member countries’ law enforcement files/records. So perhaps I will contact French customs border control. Or maybe not. (‘Haven’t decided it that’s a bear I want to poke.)
    (But I can’t imagine Uncle Sam hasn’t been sending “green notices” about me.)
    Oh, and I also received my U.S. passport revocation letter last week. (I paid $150 for it and, prorated, I have only used $50 of it. They should reimburse me the balance of $100.)

    • TS

      @David

      Gently prod Le French bear.

    • Mr. D

      @David – Am curious if you have traveled internationally since your September trip? It seems odd that it would take them 5 months to send you a revocation letter. But then again it’s our federal government at work.

    • steve

      So is the US bypassing Interpol and going right to a foreign governments police force/customs agents you think?

  28. 290 air

    @David,
    I traveled in September too and got my revocation letter in January. I had about 6 years remaining on my passport. I would say we could at least write off the prorated amount on our federal taxes since it was a loss caused by the feds. Yippeee!

  29. Mike G

    Looks like you better travel to Europe this year or next if you are going at all. I’m sure they won’t give us one of the new Schengen VISAs!

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/americans-will-need-a-visa-to-visit-europe-starting-in-2021-—-heres-what-we-know/ar-BBUvfUF?ocid=spartanntp

    • steve

      At least you will be afforded the chance to challenge a denial.

      • Mike G

        @steve

        That is true, though if it is an automatic denial because of being an RC, I’m not sure what the basis of a challenge would be.

        On the other hand, many of us believe that given a chance to explain what we actually did that landed us on the registry, and how long ago that was, that common sense might kick in and give us a chance! I suspect that common sense may be more common with other governments than our own.

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          Mike G, thanks for the article heads-up. I don’t share your optimism with the possibility of explaining our circumstances to immigration officials as a means of getting in, however. Most of those reporting here on such efforts (all of them, from what I have seen) tell us that they have not been fruitful.

          What we are witnessing is a global lock-down to subject all people to unparalleled levels of scrutiny and entry denial. It would seem that, because the technology now exists to do so, governments are exercising ever more extreme scrutiny and control over their own and everyone else’s citizens. This is a very bad path we’re on and not just for “sex offenders.”

        • Nondescript

          Did a little research on this today. There is a public service announcement on u tube if you just search “ETIAS”. Travelers will be required to apply for travel permission no more than 4 days in advance of travel and it could take up to 96 hrs for approval. ( presumably after a traveler has already paid for airline tickets and hotel reservations) It seems that Europe/ Great Britain don’t classify people as felons or misdemeanants but rather how long a person was incarcerated.

          Here is what the ETIAS website says:

          [ Travelers going to Europe with a criminal record for a holiday are currently not asked about minor offenses, especially upon entry to any of the 26 countires in the Schengen passport-free zone.
          Travelers with more serious offenses may face problems entering the Schengen Area ETIAS countries for short stays. Those who have served more than 3 years of jail time, or have been convicted of human trafficking or drug offenses with more than 2 years of jail time, are likely to be refused entry.
          However, the policy can vary between countries. For example, Germany has much stricter rules than most of the other Schengen member states, as the county reserves the right to immediately deport anyone with:
          * A public order conviction with a sentence of more than 3 years.
          * Drug offenses with a sentence of more than 2 years.
          * Any offense related to human trafficking.
          However, German border officials are more concerned with offenses commited within their own country rather than outside the EU, as is also the case in the United Kingdom. However, the UK also employs the concept of ‘spent’ convictions, which can allow travelers with a criminal record to enter the country if they are considered rehabilitated.
          The UK considers a conviction ‘spent’ if more than 10 years have passed since the traveler last served jail time (sentences between 6 to 30 months). Jail time of over 30 months cannot be ‘spent’ and will always be held against the traveler. Imprisonment of less than 6 months or fines incur a shorter rehabilitation period of around 5 years or less.
          If the imprisonment is considered ‘spent’ then the traveler does not even need to declare the conviction, and it cannot be used against them even if immigration officials are aware of the offense.
          Finally, those going to Europe with a criminal record should bear in mind that the final decision for entry often comes down to the individual discretion of the border control official, so it’s important to be polite and truthful when presenting your case ]

          Yes, we are experiencing a Global lockdown. I said many years ago that the “sex offender” label was a beta test for what they wish to do globally to all people. Look at China’s new “ Social Credit System” where they are preventing hundreds of thousands of its citizens from travel ( even on a bus!) . An Orwellian nightmare.

    • TS

      Thinking out loud, if one is granted this new ETIAS Visa, then Interpol shouldn’t need to send notices, right?

      Of course, until the application is seen, one won’t know what’s on it WRT past legal history or if the approval bureau is tied into the US database for info already.

    • R M

      Great… another chunk of Earth probably cut off for us. I was hoping to go somewhere in 4 years when my fucking CSL ended; running out of places to go. I have said screw society for a long time but now, I say screw the Earth. I broke 9 bones in my face and lost 1 eye 3 years ago. I had a heart attack (LAD artery) 4 weeks ago. How much more can I take?

    • AnonMom

      This makes me so sad- we planned to visit Paris in 2021 when my husband got off probation in late dec 2020- sure doesn’t look like that will happen. I had settled to the face that Europe would be the only place we could travel together now, but even that looks like it is being taken away! My husband loves to travel, and this will be a hit to us. Can’t even travel in the US and stay anywhere longer than a couple days, and now can’t even go to Europe- it truly hurts my heart!

  30. 290 air

    This question is for any of you who had your passport revoked and had to re-apply for a new passport with the “mark of the beast” on there. How long did it take to get your passport? I’m going into week 5 of waiting and it still says it’s being processed online. Also, have any of you been denied a passport once you re-applied for the marked one?

    • Mike G

      Not wanting to take any chances, I opted to pay for expedited processing, so I received my “Mark of the Beast” passport in just under two weeks. Even though we are not attempting travel till the middle of next month, I was worried that the “Beast” might trigger some delays.

      • nylevel1

        please be more explicit

        does your new passport have a stamp?
        can you show us exactly what it is or says please?

        • PK

          @Manuel

          That’s not really an answer- but thanks for interjecting.

          I believe that is question was directed to MikeG.

          Some people have received a Passport with an Identifier, but not everyone.

          Mike G indicated that he received a “Mark of the Beast” type Passport, but that’s not very explicit which is why NYLevel1 asked MikeG for clarification

        • R M

          @MANUEL, thanks. I have never seen this website before… I’ll explore it.

    • E

      Also paid to expedite. It took about two weeks.

  31. E

    Since I received my NEW AND IMPROVED passport with the mark of the Beast, I also ordered a clear passport cover online. Came in a 5 pack for under $10. I will not tempt fate by trying to conceal the mark with any customs officials. But the last couple pages tuck into the back flap of the passport cover very tightly. For car rentals and hotel check ins, I believe it will make a difference in my happiness… and my confidence that people won’t stumble upon the mark.

    • Mike G

      @E Excellent idea! That should work much better than accidently spilling some honey on the last page (one of the poor options I was considering).

    • TS

      @E

      Please report here how that new clear passport book cover and the tucked pages worked for you. Can’t say you’re trying to hide anything but merely being organized for ease of use and transit through the passport check line.

    • Steve @e

      Genius idea. I just ordered some. Will cover it completely. I don’t have the mark yet but am prepared when I get revoked.

      • E

        Just to follow up on the clear plastic passport covers, they worked like a charm with rental cars and hotels! Nobody pages back to the back anyway (including customs people—I did NOT use the clear covers through passport control), and every passport face page says to see page 27 for endorsements (not only those passports WITH endorsements).

  32. Major

    Well, looks like 2020 will be our last chance to even travel in West Europe. They are going to start issuing visas to US citizens in 2021. This will include a criminal background check. Any guesses whether they will be willing to overlook our convictions?

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      I’m not convinced that criminal histories will result in refusals beyond what we are currently experiencing in EU travel which, so far, is essentially none at all for registrants.

      On one of the official EU pages about this, they mentioned something about “current” criminal charges being their concern. I’ll have to find that again.

      On this page, there is the following:

      “Apart from necessary personal and travel information, applicants will also have to answer questions related to:

      Drug use
      Terrorism
      Human Trafficking
      Travel to conflict areas
      Criminal history
      Employment history
      Past European travel information
      Security information”

      eeyeww… That sounds a bit ominous, doesn’t it? Also, how the hell can I remember how many times – and when – I was in Europe?

      https://www.etiaseurope.eu/etias-application/

        • steve

          I am slightly encouraged after reading that.

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          As someone who spent five years in prison, I am no longer encouraged. Sounds like they are tilting more towards Five Eyes banishment.

        • steve

          ok
          if i interpret this correctly, how would this affect me.
          i received a 3 year sentence but only spent 13 months in prison, i was given credit for time served in county jail and work release.
          it has been 15 years since i was in prison, offense free for 25 years. i appealed my probation revocation and it took 8 years to go through the process.
          it says the uk would allow me in after 10 years has gone by?
          any ideas?

        • NY won’t let go

          If this is all true, that means mine is already spent in the UK, as my sentence wasn’t even a year and I got time served since I couldn’t afford bail.

          Am I gonna test this out? Probably not. But it makes me glad that they have common sense there.

          I’ve wanted to try Japan as well since their barring limit is if you were sentenced to over a year. Oh well, currently saving money to hopefully fund the suit to get me off the list that I shouldn’t be on as I don’t live in the country…. let alone the state

        • Mike G

          I also am slightly encouraged, since I only spent 30 days in jail, 24 years ago.

          A couple of things I worry about, though. In at least one case of a country’s admission requirements I was researching, time on Probation was considered the same as jail time (considered to be in custody), and was added to it.

          Also, sex offenses were not directly addressed (unless, God forbid, they are thrown in with Human Trafficking). We all know that anything involving a minor in the US is considered a Serious offence, even if it was non-contact or very minor contact. Sometimes sex offenses seem to create their own category, especially if the country in question receives a letter from Satan Watch, including an 8 x 10 copy of your mug shot from some website that has you labeled as a child predator (personal experience).

          Otherwise, if the policies stated are inclusive, I think there is hope… maybe even UK? Oh wait, then there is Brexit 🙁

  33. I

    I too have been dreaming of returning to England and read about the UK Rehabilitation of Offenders Act which provides for “spent” convictions after a certain number of offense-free years:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabilitation_of_Offenders_Act_1974

    The British police have an FAQ section and I wrote this to them:

    “I traveled to the UK in 2014 after visiting England many times previously, but this time I was denied entry at Heathrow (customs found my criminal record from the US on their computer) and made to purchase a ticket back to Chicago.

    I have read about the UK Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and wonder if I could use that to be permitted to visit the UK some time in the future. I would qualify under the requirements for a spent’ conviction.”

    I received this reply which doesn’t seem to address my question. Anyone had any experience with this? Anyone know a lawyer in London who could help?

    “Thank you for your enquiry. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 does not apply to US visa law, we therefore advise that you contact the US Embassy in London, where a member of staff will be able to assist you further regarding this matter. The Embassy contact details can be found on the link below:

    https://uk.usembassy.gov/

    You can also contact UK Visas and Immigration via the link below:

    https://www.gov.uk/contact-ukvi-inside-outside-uk

    https://www.gov.uk/browse/visas-immigration/tourist-short-stay-visas

    We also advise that you contact your local law enforcement agency to clarify if there are any travel restrictions that form part of your registration.

    Regards,
    PNLD
    (EG)

    • NY won’t let go

      http://hub.unlock.org.uk/information/travelling-abroad/

      It’s very informative and they openly say that yes they will send a green notice but no the information isn’t stored in the passport chip

    • NY won’t let go

      Their system for how they do the registration requirements is interesting also as it is based off of the amount of time you spent in jail/prison, but there is a part saying that if you had an extended sentence that would also count as imprisonment also. I’m assuming this means probation.

      But in their system even lifetime registrants can petition to be removed after 15 years because they found that if they didn’t it would violate the convention of human rights

      “In April 2010, the UK Supreme Court ruled that indefinite notification periods were incompatible with Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (Right to respect for private and family life) because they did not contain any mechanism for the review of the justification for continuing the requirements in individual cases. This effectively meant that those subject to lifetime registration should have the right to an appeal where they will have the opportunity to demonstrate that their risk has been minimised to a degree that it is no longer necessary for them to be subject to the notification requirements.

      As a result of this case, the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (Remedial) Order 2012 came into force on 30 July 2012 and allows individuals who are subject to indefinite notification requirements the opportunity to apply to the police for a review of this requirement, after a fixed period of time has elapsed. This is currently 15 years for an adult and 8 years for a juvenile.”

  34. Illinois Contact

    From the new ETIAS Visa information page

    Going to Europe with a Criminal Record: Requirements and How to Apply

    “The UK considers a conviction ‘spent’ if more than 10 years have passed since the traveler last served jail time (sentences between 6 to 30 months). Jail time of over 30 months cannot be ‘spent’ and will always be held against the traveler. Imprisonment of less than 6 months or fines incur a shorter rehabilitation period of around 5 years or less.

    If the imprisonment is considered ‘spent’ then the traveler does not even need to declare the conviction, and it cannot be used against them even if immigration officials are aware of the offense.”

    I spent no jail from and yet I was denied entry to the UK in 2014 based on my 2006 conviction with only probation. I didn’t “declare” the conviction at UK Customs, it popped up on their computer as I presented my US passport.

    Sounds like EU/Schengen customs will continue to be receptive even with the new Visas.

    • brunelloo

      Thank you for informing us of this British policy. I had been wondering why I was admitted to the UK about a year ago when I missed a connection at Heathrow. Now I can believe that this was because of this policy, my conviction being both old (“spent”) and minor by their definition. So my experience is a likely confirmation that they actually abide by this policy.

    • AJ

      @Illinois Contact:
      Probation is a custodial sentence, even in the US, it’s just one of the lowest issued by a court. Some countries apparently view it equivalent to actual incarceration. So if you spent more than 6 months on probation, the 10-year rule would apply, which you had not yet met. If you spent more than 30 months on probation, it’s possible your conviction will never be spent in the UKs’ eyes.

      • NY won’t let go

        They call being on probation/parole “on license”. Their terms are so funny

        I had to look it up a custodial sentence is like going to a halfway house or mental hospital it seems

        A custodial sentence is a judicial sentence, imposing a punishment consisting of mandatory custody of the convict, either in prison or in some other closed therapeutic or educational institution, such as a reformatory, (maximum security) psychiatry or drug detoxification (especially cold turkey). As ‘custodial’ suggests, the sentence requires the suspension of an individual’s liberty and the assumption of responsibility over the individual by another body or institution.[1]

        The Criminal Justice Act 2003 (England and Wales) states that ‘(2)The court must not pass a custodial sentence unless it is of the opinion that the offence, or the combination of the offence and one or more offences associated with it, was so serious that neither a fine alone nor a community sentence can be justified for the offence’.[2] Some serious offences incur minimum custodial sentences, unless there are exceptional circumstances. Custodial sentences may also be used where there is a perceived threat to public safety.[3]

        Community sentences are non-custodial and include fines, various mandatory but ‘open’ therapy and courses, restriction orders and loss or suspension of civil rights.

        • Pk

          @NY

          Thanks to my awesome Attorney in Mexico, and my Federal Immigration Case there, we have made some interesting discoveries about the Migratory Alert System in Mexico called SETRAM.

          We are finding out more and more about how alerts are registered, administered, and maintained.

          It’s been a long and arduous process but I will keep you updated periodically about my process- I’m in this for the Long haul!

        • AJ

          @Pk:
          Thanks for the update on the progress you’re making in Mexico. I’m sure those wishing/needing to travel there are also quite appreciative of your efforts and discoveries.

        • TS

          @PK

          I’ll echo what @AJ said on digging into the Mexican system. Nice work and keep it up. Pull back the curtain!

      • Relief

        Non-Custodial: According to this UK Gov website, Probation is specifically NOT a custodial sentence.

        https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/non-custodial-sentences

        “Types of Non-Custodial Sentence:” … “Probation Order or Community Service Order”

      • AJ

        @NY won’t let go & @Relief:
        Thank you for finding these details. I’m happily admitting to my being wrong on this. I should have researched a bit more (read: at all) instead of going off my own folklore knowledge. Apologies all around.

        With this info from the two of you, I may be able to return to Merry Ole England yet again after all.

        • NY won’t let go

          No worries 😂 it just goes to show that all of the other countries of the world at least have some sense in their systems and believe that people can change and be rehabilitated. Out of any country the US had the most strenuous registry requirements as for many they are lifetime without any relief, where as other countries the they have found the registries inhumane or they allow you to petition to be removed even if you’re a lifetime registrant (I.e. the U.K. allows those with an indefinite registration period to petition after 15 years to plead their case and be removed, they just prove they are not a danger to society, but the government also needs to prove their reason if they disagree. Also with spent convictions supposedly if you are denied entry into the U.K. due to a spent conviction the burden of evidence is not supposed to be on you as your crime has been spent and does not have to be declared, so the immigration is supposed to get evidence why they won’t let you in)

        • Mike G

          This is great news! Thanks @NY won’t let go & @Relief for ferreting out this information. My wife has long wanted to tour UK – maybe now we can.

          So do you think I can assume that if I am able to get a Visa because my conviction is long ‘spent’, that they will also ignore the warning notice from Satan Watch and also the marked passport?

          Don’t know if anyone knows this yet, but hoping to read some success stories soon.

        • NY won’t let go

          @ MikeG I think the green notice or the angel watch thing may still have us barred.

          I would definitely ask the embassy first if they know how it works still.

          For my current country they had told me if I could attain a visa then I could come in. Unlike most countries though my current country doesn’t make you pay for the visa if they don’t approve it and you pay when you pick it up/are approved.

          I tried getting a visa for Australia before and ended up losing all the money for it because I no longer lived in the US and you have to submit and FBI background check which can’t be done outside of the US the last I knew.

        • AJ

          @NY won’t let go:
          “you have to submit and FBI background check which can’t be done outside of the US the last I knew.”
          —–
          Have you tried contacting ht consulate or embassy? Many (all?) embassies have FBI field offices…which is one more way the Feds get our info into the locals’ hands.

        • TS

          Here is the official USG info to supplement @AJ’s statement on background checks overseas:

          Travel.State.Gov > International Travel > While Abroad > Criminal Record Checks

          https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/criminal-record-checks.html

          (BTW, a personal tip for you all if you want to get an FBI background check domestically, skip printing out their form, getting fingerprints done by the local cop shop/vendor, and sending it in via postal mail. Pay the extra money to go find one of their contract offices for a digital submittal. The time of data return is a huge magnitude of difference based upon my personal experience of 2 weeks vs never. I put it on the same plane as paying an expedited passport fee vs waiting for them to take their regular amount of time.)

        • Relief

          @Mike G: It appears from postings and experiences listed here that ‘Spent’ convictions in the UK are overridden by anyone on a registry. However, someone no longer required to register may fall back onto the ‘Spent’ guidelines.

          More importantly for people here, is the informational purposes of the purposed ETIAS Europe visa. Even a current registrant could likely be granted this new Visa if they are under the ‘3 years of jail time’ regardless of registry status. Even those with more prison time whose conviction was decades ago may be able to petition a denial. You could always argue/compare an offenses’ jail time in USA to the equivalent times in Europe.

          A recent report showed the average jail/prison sentence in the USA was 63 months but only 4 months in Canada and 11 months in Europe.

          The main point, is the new ETIAS Schengen Visa may not eliminate a huge amount of registrants from travel and the benefit of being approved in advanced/knowing rather then ‘deported at arrival’ could be a big relief.

        • Hiding in plain sight

          Just a little thing to keep in mind. The ETIAS rules don’t go into effect until Jan 1, 2021.

          According to the website, they say that “minor convictions” shouldn’t be a problem. What if it was a “minor” and the case is considered violent (288(a) )? Will that incur extra scrutiny or possible denial?

          “Travelers with more serious offenses may face problems entering the Schengen Area ETIAS countries for short stays. Those who have served more than 3 years of jail time, or have been convicted of human trafficking or drug offenses with more than 2 years of jail time, are likely to be refused entry.”

          This looks a bit like the loophole will close.

        • NY won’t let go

          @aj @ts I’ve read the site before, sadly the link to the guide they give is a 404. When I had contacted the embassy here, and the other where I was at the time they said they didn’t have the ability to do that. Additionally the US embassy cannot certify documents from the US. The most they can do is have you fill out an affidavit saying that it’s a true statement and then notarize it for 50 bucks.

          Luckily for everything here they only require local records if you’ve lived here over 2 years. My current government isn’t exactly on friendly terms with the US which works in my favor for certain things and a pain for others.

          As long as things keep going the way they are between China and the US this won’t change.

        • TS

          @NY holding tight

          Thanks for the feedback. Maybe it’s local to you?

        • NY won’t let go

          The US embassy here only wants to talk to you if you get arrested or if you need a new passport. For any other service they can’t really do anything.

          The local government here only cares if you break the law here, sure the punishments are more severe but the punishment matches the crime and people move in with their lives after they do their time.

          There are more important things to worry about than people who have done their time here. Unless you work for the government or a school they don’t even do a background check for most jobs. They will check your qualifications with a fine tooth comb due to the over educated under paid society though.

          I’m still trying to save money to afford the lawyer to get off the damn NY registry.

  35. Illinois Contact

    Curiously, they refer to the UK spent conviction provision on the ETIAS webpage:

    https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/travel-europe-criminal-record-requirements-apply

    If the imprisonment is considered ‘spent’ then the traveler does not even need to declare the conviction, and it cannot be used against them even if immigration officials are aware of the offense.

    See below under 2014 Ammendments:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabilitation_of_Offenders_Act_1974

    It would be ironic if the new ETIAS visas make it possible for us to travel to London again.

    • AJ

      @Illinois Contact:
      “It would be ironic if the new ETIAS visas make it possible for us to travel to London again.”
      —–
      I have one word for you, probably dashing your hopes: Brexit.

      • NY won’t let go

        If you look at the U.K. gov website and check to see if you need a visa and you click USA and Tourist, it will advise you to apply for a visa if you have a criminal record.

      • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

        AJ & Illinois Contact: Not only that (Brexit) but the U.K. has never adopted the EU’s policies on immigration and is not a party to Schengen, for that matter. Brexit or not, there are no signs that Britain will let us in in the near or intermediate future just as they began blocking us many years before the IML. I will probably never again see the British Museum or the Tate Galleries.

        • AJ

          @Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly:
          Yeah, I know. I was going for effect. 😀

        • James

          Dear Mr. Kennerly, AJ and Illinois Contact:

          Yes, the Tate Modern especially, sitting on the 2nd floor balcony just off the Cafe/Coffee shop, looking out over the Thames, Millennium Bridge and St. Paul’s in the distance, sipping a good warm latte in a cold breeze…this is living.

          I miss it terribly. I spoke to London tonight via Skype….decades later I still don’t let some people know why I don’t travel to see them…better they don’t know, (I think).

          I also miss the Christmas Fairs up in Greewich, or skating in the moat surrounding the White Tower, better known as the Tower of London.

          Be that as it may, I thought I’d do a memory run for you.

          (Maybe in 2022)

          Best Wishes, James

      • False hope

        Like every other law, the exemption, termination, and re intigration will apply to all but the sex offender. The U.S. will make sure of that!

    • David

      @ Illinois Contact: “…. if there has been no further conviction the conviction is “spent” and, with certain exceptions, need not be disclosed…” Unfortunately, you seemed to have missed the key words: “with certain exceptions”.
      WE are ALWAYS that “certain exception”. 😡

  36. International Travel

    Apparently another case against someone failing to provide the 21-day notice. The article says this is the 2nd in the OH district. Does anyone know of any other cases and why they were charged?

    https://www.smart.gov/smartwatch/february2019/case-spotlight.html

    • AJ

      The guy doesn’t sound like he was interested in changing his behaviors.

      I had to laugh at this statement from U.S. Marshals Service Senior Inspector William Boldin: “As we have more aggressive enforcement in the U.S., the predators expand their search area for victims by traveling outside the U.S. Working these cases helps us to prevent additional victims, regardless of where they are in the world.”
      —–
      Riiiigght, because due to “aggressive enforcment,” sex offenses, particularly against children, have plummeted and are virtually a thing of the past–just look at the pre- and post-ML studies from NJ, etc.

      • Will Allen

        People like William Boldin are true scumbags. Not the least bit interested in facts. So desperate for a lame job and meaning in their lives that they’ll lie about anything.

        I’ve got bad news for liars like William Boldin. It is trivial to find child victims in Amerika. Sad but true. All they are doing is harassing people who aren’t doing anything and making it difficult to travel. If guys like this one here can’t leave the country, they’ll just do whatever they like here, no trouble at all. And harassing big government and liars like Boldin are only giving everyone the desire and incentives to want to cause trouble. Just like their spectacularly failed “war on drugs”, there are few problems that they cannot make worse.

      • Joe

        “The guy doesn’t sound like he was interested in changing his behaviors.”

        Based on what? That he was teaching school? Maybe that is all he knows to do. That he violated probation? Who doesn’t? That “a coworker, a fellow U.S. citizen who had grown suspicious of Schafer’s unusual behavior with children at the school, discovered his criminal history and contacted U.S. authorities.”? A complaint by a colleague who discovered his status? Shocking.

        Given U.S. Marshals Service Senior Inspector William Boldin direct quote, why believe anything?

        Here is the original press release.

        https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndoh/pr/sexual-predator-williams-county-sentenced-nearly-two-years-prison-after-traveling-asia

        “A sexual predator from Williams County was sentenced to nearly two years in prison after traveling to Asia without permission and failing to register as a sex offender.”

        “without permission”. THAT I believe. Sure sounds like parole / probation / punishment….. naahhh, can’t be. SCOTUS said so.

        • AJ

          @Joe:
          “Based on what?”
          —–
          It’s called an opinion. It’s mine and I feel neither need nor desire to explain or expound. Deal with it.

        • Paul

          “Traveling without permission”?

          Is that the government finally admitting that the purpose of IML is to prevent traveling abroad?

        • NY won’t let go

          What intrigues me about this story is, How the hell did he get a visa to work in China? Pretty sure it needs an FBI background check still when you apply, I may be mistaken though.

        • Joe

          @AJ –

          Dealing with it…. ouch! But grateful that you felt the need and desire to come here to inform me you are not going to explain or expound….

          No doubt, you are entitled to your opinion, which, by definition is the owner’s. Even if it lacks basis and you categorically reject any request to substantiate your comment. This is certainly your prerogative. This is no different from 99% of the general public, and 99.9% of the politicians in this country. Hence the need for this site.

          In the future, it might be helpful – in the interest of a constructive discussion on this public forum – to proactively mark the specific comments that are not subject to further inquiry. Unless, of course, it applies to all your contributions.

          That is my opinion, and I will be glad to explain or expound… as that is what one does in discussion.

        • AJ

          @Joe:
          “In the future, it might be helpful – in the interest of a constructive discussion on this public forum – to proactively mark the specific comments that are not subject to further inquiry. Unless, of course, it applies to all your contributions.”
          —–
          Again, I feel neither need nor desire to do such. However it’s well within your rights and prerogative to consider the moniker of “AJ” as your fair warning. Matters not to me. As of hitting “Post Comment” on this one, I’ll use “Joe” as an indicator to blow right past the post.

          Adieu.

        • Joe

          @AJ –

          as you wish…. but am somewhat confused by this reaction. When asked to support a claim made on a public discussion forum, your response is not only to “take your ball and go home” in a huff, it is to “never ever play with me” again. Quite bizarre, and does not do much for your credibility. I will take your future comments in this light.

    • steve

      ok
      i thought there was a case that related to this incident. if he was leaving the country, he would have deregistered. he did not have to tell them where he was going, just that he was leaving his state.
      if this is the case he should not have to give 21 day notice of leaving the country?
      has anyone tried this, de register in your state, buy a travel trailer and tour the u.s. staying long enough to not have to register anywhere. wonder what would happen? if you are not registered anywhere iml would not apply, then leave the country, if you come back, do the same thing……

      • steve @ steve

        Hello Steve this is steve. Can you please add something with your name as I have been posting as “steve” for a couple years here and have some formed relationships.

        Thanks steve (lol)

    • Mike G

      I thought violation of IML was a mandatory 10 year federal sentence. Why did this guy get only 21 months?

      As usual, the actions of the few bad actors are used by the government to make the public believe that all of us are the same.

      • Joe

        10 years maximum, not minimum.

        Let’s keep in mind that this “bad actor” was not charged with a crime, let alone convicted of one while in China. This bad actor’s crime was traveling without permission, errr, notification. Nothing more, nothing less.

        btw – here is another “fun” one about a real “bad actor”.

        https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/icymi-oregon-man-sentenced-life-prison-sexually-abusing-children-orphanage-cambodia

        Guy abuses children in Cambodia where he is charged, convicted and sentenced to one year in prison. By the local jurisdiction, representing the local victims. Then gets life in prison in the ole US of A.

        Of course he was not a registrant, but that is beside the point. This is the bad actor the government uses to make the public believe they are saving the children by punishing you.

        Must protect those brown children. Incidentally, just this week the Trump Administration revoked a transparency order on drone strikes, suspending any reporting on civilian drone casualties. Can one assume those do not include children? After all, must protect those children in foreign places at all costs…

        • Mike G

          Yes, it should be obvious to anyone who bothers to check into it, that punishing RCs has a much higher priority with the government (and its highly brain-washed public) than “saving” children.

        • Robert

          Why throw President Trump in ? He didn’t put you in your situation. You did

        • PK

          Trump had nothing to do with IML.

          In fact it was President Obama who signed this into law, and 2 Democratic Judges from the 9th Circuit who dismissed the case against it.

        • PK

          “Must protect those brown children. Incidentally, just this week the Trump Administration revoked a transparency order on drone strikes, suspending any reporting on civilian drone casualties.”
          Who cares?

          Can one assume those do not include children? After all, must protect those children in foreign places at all costs…
          That’s a pretty grand assumption.

      • Joseph

        I have a question
        I was sentenced under my Korean name but on my passport and driver license, it says my English name. Do I still have to register for IML if I leave the country or will they even detect that I’m an rso?

        • Lake County

          When you applied for your passport, you were required to give them all alias’s you are known by. I assume you had to use your birth certificate when you applied for your passport that has your Korean name. This would then be in their computer. You might get lucky, or you might end up in prison for an IML violation. There is no way to know until you try leaving without the 21 day notification. No one can tell you for sure what will happen.

        • NY won’t let go

          Why not just get your Korean passport? I’ve talked to a few lawyers and they said the process for me would take about a year despite what I’d been told by the embassy.

          But then again your Korean name is registered so that might cause you to have to register in Korea also.

          You’re in a sticky predicament, I would have given them the English name and saved the Korean one and just let them deport me like they wanted to if I had known the full extent of the registry…

  37. E

    Entered Germany at FRA with zero issues carrying my new and improved (aka marked) passport. He scanned the passport, must have had no alert as he acted totally normal, flipped to the first stampable page and stamped it and closed it.

    Further flight a few days later within Schengen also no issues. Last time I was in Europe I had no issues at passport control (old passport) in Germany but then got pulled aside in Spain after an intra-Schengen flight. We’ve now heard that a few times within Schengen so I was expecting it. So I have no rhyme or reason for this. I’ve been registering for over 20 years and do wonder whether the authorities (if they are getting the data collected by USMS like date of offense ) take how long ago it’s been into consideration??

    FWIW the clear passport cover has worked wonders at settling my nerves about renting cars and checking in at hotels. The last two pages of the passport fit snugly in the back flap of the passport cover. I took it out of the cover for passport control as I would not want to try to evade whatever was going to happen there. He did not look at the endorsements page and I was watching.

    • Mike G

      @E
      Thank you so much for the update! We are headed to Germany next month.
      On previous trips to Europe (with my good ole passport), I noticed the same thing you observed. They would scan my passport, then open to the first blank page and stamp it.
      I don’t really expect them to notice the mark in my new version unless they receive a directive to look for it.

      Also, I now have the clear cover for my passport, and I am certainly going to tuck the last couple of pages (except for passport control). That was a great idea!

      In the past few times I’ve been to Europe, once I passed the first passport control, my passport was never looked at by any government until I flew out, but the 15 or so countries I visited were all either by ground or by ship. This trip, we are flying from Munich to Naples (Intra-Schengen) so I am hoping for the best.

      • NY won’t let go

        There is one fellow living in Germany with a YouTube dedicated to this type of subject. According to him the Germans are against the whole marking of passports and registry anyway due to the whole Nazi Germany thing

        https://youtu.be/UShLkoq0G4s

        • Will Allen

          Obviously, German Nazis would’ve been thrilled with Amerika’s “$EX offender” witch hunt and marking of passports. Exactly the kind of thing that really got them off. They also would’ve approved of stuffing “$EX offenders”, their spouses, and their children into gas chambers. Much like most of the “people” in Amerika who support the Registries would love. And yet there are people on this web site who think it’s no big deal to volunteer and help those people.

      • E@ Mike G

        Please let us know how the Germany to Naples leg goes. The intro-Schengen travel I find most mystifying. I have several trips yet this year and will be on pins and needles each time. Romania, anyone?? Connect in Istanbul, anyone?? Yikes.

        My trip back through USCBP with the new passport was standard. Secondary waiting room for 15 minutes, “Thanks sir, you’re good to go,” and no luggage search or extra stop after the office. Pretty standard, though sometimes I’ve gotten the full suitcase rummage and only once a cellphone check.

    • AJ

      @E:
      I wonder, too, if perhaps your previous trips are working in your favor. With “successful” visits and no issues, perhaps EU’s own protocols are outweighing the U.S. ones. Maybe Spain added something to your EU record saying you’re okay, despite what Amerika says. Pure speculation. Maybe Mr. Kennerly has info?

      • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

        E & AJ, I’m afraid that Mr. Kennerly is as mystified by all of this as everyone else. One thing that I think is very possible though is that Europe, surprisingly, has not been in receipt of these Interpol-dwelling notices that is, those messages that are continually-available status messages on Interpol’s network for reasons of their not having previously been connected to that particular network although they surely are connected to “terrorist” databases. That leaves the explicit per-trip messages (the other way we are being flagged) which “Angel Watch” is sending but, perhaps, they are not sending these to Europe? Since we now know with this so-called ETIAS system that Europe is switching to promises to rectify this information paucity, we may be sorely disappointed when and if the European welcome mat for Registrants gets pulled out from underneath us. We simply don’t know yet what to expect. Also, I have yet to see any directives from the EU or Schengen on sex offender visitor policies and I’m not sure that there are any. It may well be that such policies remain up to constituent countries to exercise and that most have not adopted them because, well, they’re European. Still, that (Europeanism) is not a quality that remains unchanged and we should prepare for some anguish, perhaps.

        • TS

          @NDIK

          Very interesting thinking there with much plausibility to it, I think. Mainland Europe (West, Central, and East) has always been different towards US policy even after WWII. Sure, they love the American dollar being spent there, but the attitude has always been different in my reading over the years, i.e. keep the big bad Russian Bear away from us and don’t tell us how to run our countries. One has to wonder, as we have done here before collectively, will they (ind. countries) become like the 5 Eye countries over time or maintain their own thinking? I hope the latter because the former are on the USG payroll as one can see.

        • David

          @ Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly et alia: I was met by French police when my plane landed at Charles de Gaulle Airport last September. I don’t yet know who informed them that I was coming to France, but certainly someone (Angel Watch?) is sending notices to Europe.
          (Yes, I was allowed to continue through Customs and go on my way, despite the minor delay.)

          BTW, it should be noted that in some countries (definitely France and Ireland), it is entirely at each Customs Officer’s individual discretion as to whether or not you are granted entry to their country.

        • Notorious D.I.K., The (Erstwhile) Travelling Boogeyman

          David, there are several routes through which the information may be available to Customs worldwide. In addition to the Angel Watch notification that now requires that we report our travel plans on the threat of imprisonment, information which is then fielded by the “Angels” who, in turn, generate a trip-specific notice to that particular country, there almost certainly is a continuously-available record that springs to life when our passport is scanned and its number matches against an Interpol database.

          Add to that the fact that the U.S. government, as well as some unknown number of other governments but which certainly includes the Anglo “Five Eyes” and the EU, have ready access to the Passenger Name Record (PNR) for nearly everyone traveling, worldwide. This, then means that governments can be automatically notified when a registrant (or anyone else who takes their fancy) purchases a ticket using, again, the passport number. I know that both the U.S. and the E.U. have passed laws which require their access to the PNRs.

          So your “douaniers” may have been “triggered” by this last method but, who knows? This idea of them calling you out before disgorging the plane is really disturbing and we’ve heard it from others, too. They can’t even wait for you to get to the immigration counter? I mean, they will be scanning your passport anyway and can easily summon some thugs over but, instead, they come and drag you off of the plane, inconveniencing everyone. What on earth is THAT all about? Oh right! I forgot: for the theatrics in the Theater of the Absurd Security.

          I think that it’s going to be very interesting to see who gets in and who doesn’t under the soon-to-find-out ETIAS system although, they have spelled it out and, if it’s truly going to be based upon how long ones’ prison sentence was, then Europe is out for me (five years).

          As I’ve said previously, I’ve pretty much given up on travel for myself. I’m just very grateful that I managed to get in a shit-load of foreign travel before I was grounded. Something to look back upon with (almost complete) fondness and no serious regrets and leaving aside such experiences as being kidnapped by taxi drivers in Delhi and being held-up at gunpoint in Rio. That’s all to be expected and part of the adventure, at least when being viewed retrospectively.

    • mch

      E;

      What exactly is the marking on your new passport? Mine is up for renewel this year and I wonder if it’s worth the hassle.
      Thanks
      MCH

  38. Steveo

    So, I’ve got an online business, and we need developers, and would like to go to South America to grow our business, but IML is keeping us from moving down there. We’re waiting for May or June for the US Supreme Court to find a problem with legislation of SORNA being delegated to the US attorney general (executive branch), and perhaps finding relief from registration, and the ability to travel there without the worldwide scarlet letter that they have saddled me with.

    I’m also in Texas and was sentenced over 25 years ago to 10 years differed adjudication. There were no registries at that time, so I think I should be able to get off if the Texas Supreme Court (that also tends to rule before they adjourn in June) will find a problem with ex post facto stuff that they are supposedly going to rule on, which may also relieve me of these chains keeping me from traveling to conduct commerce.

    • ML

      If you get deregistered, you are or should be free to travel anywhere. You do need to hire the right lawyer one who has been successful in the deregistration process. They may cost more but it will be worth it.

    • Mike G

      @Steveo

      There are 10s, if not 100s of thousands of us that are hopeful that you are successful in one or both of your scenarios, though most of us are not as optimistic as you are. The Supreme Court ruling that none of this registry stuff is punishment would need to be overturned or superseded before we would expect much in the way of relief.

      Also, some countries (i.e. Canada) will not allow entry with any kind of criminal record, regardless of whether you are registered, so you may need to check the laws and policies of each of the South American countries where you intend to do business.

  39. JM of Wi.

    Interesting u-tube video.
    When I was in Amsterdam, I went to the resistance museum. The Dutch people keep close to heart the atrocities carried out by Nazi Germany on their citizens. The museum besides glorifying the few leaders who gave their lives to attempt to save their “marked” citizens; drove home the message that non-action was compliance. The final exhibit was a film stating that no markings/identifiers are acceptable on passports or id’s. No markings of people worn, tattooed, etc. are acceptable. I sometimes have cringed when I have heard or read comparison’s of our registries to the Nazi’s.
    After being in Amsterdam, seeing the Ann Frank House and seeing the Resistance Museum; I feel no hesitation. The US government, the money oriented prison system, the money oriented “sex offender therapy” system, polygraphs, GPS monitoring etc. are not just following Nazi ideology, they are breaking new ground. America will, if allowed, use this political agenda to expand it’s influence. As money and power are it’s goal. . . .
    Non-action is compliance.
    Compliance is choice.

    • JM of Wi.

      Note above was in response to (ny won’t let go)

      • NY won’t let go

        When I was in the Netherlands I mostly spent my time working in the Christmas town or at a coffee shop with my house mates who were confused why the US had a registry and even more confused as to why I was on it as there it would not have been a crime. Both the house mates were female and we are still good friends. (This May not seem important to some, but almost all American females that I had been friends with that I had told about the registry situation had completely exiled me from their lives as well has had our mutual friends ostracize me)

        It’s no wonder that so many countries see the US as Barbarians and Neanderthals. Especially with the lack of language skills of The American population. In Europe it’s common to know 5 languages fluently. Even in my current country the bare minimum for most jobs is 3-4 languages and English doesn’t count as one of them.

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      JM, yes, I’ve been to the Resistance Museum and Anne Frank’s “Huis” before, too. What does not get well-conveyed at the Resistance Museum is the degree to which the Dutch were active collaborators with the Nazis, arguably more so than any other German-occupied country during the war. This somehow gets left out. Everyone always wants to imagine that they would be taking heroic and brave risks to fight fascism when, in reality, very few actually do anything. Yes, there was a brief worker’s strike where the workers famously told the Germans “Hands off our filthy Jews!” but then little more after that and it’s back to packing Jews up in front of the theater for rail transport with the help of the Anton Musserts who’ve transformed fully into active collaborators. That’s the reality: “Thank God it’s not us. Keep your head down and hope they don’t see you! Keep quiet!”

      • TS

        If you can watch “Riphagen”, then you’ll see what @NDIK refers to WRT Dutch collaboration.

    • Mike G

      I very much agree! I think everyone should watch this video as well as all the other videos this gentleman has produced.
      I only wish every member of the general public could be encouraged to watch these. I think there would be a tidal shift in public opinion in our favor.

      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOCiIEDiqbNFl8qmz1Hb4mw

      • Dreamin’

        And the clouds will part, and the light will shine on them. O.K.

  40. Harry

    Again, why are there no direct legal challenge of the IML and the marked passport? It is clearly punishment. There is no due process, it is retroactive and punitive. I know Janice tried to push some type technical challenge, which, I was disappointed in, that was never appealed or reintroduce.

    • David

      @ Harry: There are two reasons, Harry. First, our government will say that it is merely notifying the other country – providing information – and what the other country decides to do with that information is entirely up to that country. And second, we encounter the same problems as we do with Registries. Proving harm is a significantly high bar when you’re dealing with registries. Proving actual harm is a significantly high bar. It is difficult to get any judge to consider it as punishment, rather than merely administrative/regulatory/procedural

      • Political Prisoner

        The government keep saying that the information on the registry is available to whoever wants it, and they are just passing the information along. But the question is di the receiving country ask for the information or did the government just send it without a request for it? If the receiving country ask for the information then do a FOIA request for that request, if there was no request for that information then the government is using the information to harass registered citizen, which I believe is in violation of rules to access the list.

    • e

      Janice isn’t dumb. She knows the laws that she doesn’t have a chance in hell of beating. Go for the low hanging fruit, like residency restrictions.

  41. Travel Update

    Couple things: 1) traveled to France several weeks ago and didn’t have any issues. 2) FYI – https://www.justice.gov/jmd/page/file/1143886/download – 60 “investigative leads” and 1,789 notifications. I would have thought there would be more than that traveling but maybe not…

    Pertinent line:
    Strategy: Improve communication and coordination with Federal, state, and local partners
    regarding international traveling sex offenders.

    The USMS continues its collaborative role with the DHS Angel Watch Center as part of its authority under the International Megan’s Law (P.L. 114-119). In FY 2018, the USMS processed and directed 1,789 international travel notifications from state or jurisdictional sex offender registries to INTERPOL. The USMS verified the status of 2,743 sex offenders and submitted 60 investigative leads to USMS criminal investigators for assessment of possible International Megan’s Law violations.

    • steve

      Thanks for the update but it’s also good to know details. I wonder if those “leads” are to find out if people filed their travel plans with local police.

      1) Was your offense against child?
      2) Do you have a marked passport?
      3) Any issues coming back

      I am also going to France in June via Frankfurt.

      • Travel Update

        1) CP, probation
        2) Have not received a revocation letter yet and travel frequently, but always expecting it. Have less than a year to go…
        3) Not this trip. Sent to secondary and was basically told good to go. Did report trip. I travel frequently for work and not had to go through secondary a few times but typically do. Varies between a quick you can go to having everything searched including phone and computer and “intensive” questioning about purpose of trip.

        While cannot predict what will happen, I do think you should feel pretty confident about being able to get into EU without any trouble. May also depend on your conviction too.

  42. M

    02/09/2016
    SHARE
    ICE authorized to create Angel Watch Center to expand child protection efforts following passage of International Megan’s Law
    Operation Angel Watch was created to stop the spread of child sex tourism
    ICE authorized to create Angel Watch Center to expand child protection efforts following passage of International Megan’s Law
    WASHINGTON – U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has been authorized to create an Angel Watch Center to expand efforts to alert foreign law enforcement partners about the intended travel by convicted registered child sex offenders from the United States to their countries, following the signature of International Megan’s Law by the President on Monday.

    “ICE’s Operation Angel Watch plays a crucial role in the global fight against child sex tourism. Under this unique and innovative initiative, we are able to send actionable information to our law enforcement partners around the globe so that they can assess the situation and respond appropriately, whether that is to deny an individual entry into their country, or to monitor that individual’s travel for potential danger to children,” said ICE Director Sarah R. Saldaña. “The creation of a formalized and expanded Angel Watch Center further enhances our efforts to protect children around the world.”
    Initially created in 2007 by ICE’s Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), Operation Angel Watch is managed by the Child Exploitation Investigations Unit of the ICE Cyber Crimes Center and is a joint effort with U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and the U.S. Marshals Service.

    Operation Angel Watch targets individuals who have been previously convicted of sexual crimes against a child and who may pose a potential new threat: traveling overseas for the purpose of sexually abusing or exploiting minors, a crime known as “child sex tourism.”

    Through Operation Angel Watch, HSI uses publicly available sex offender registry information and passenger travel data to strategically alert foreign law enforcement partners through its HSI attaché offices of a convicted child predator’s intent to travel to their country. In Fiscal Year 2015, HSI made over 2,100 notifications to more than 90 countries.

    In addition to creating the Angel Watch Center, the new law provides the authority for the center to receive information from other countries about convicted child predators intending to travel to the United States, and it directs the Secretary of State, in coordination with the Attorney General and Secretary of Homeland Security, to seek agreements and use technical assistance with other countries so that the United States is notified in advance of incoming foreign sex offenders.

    Angel Watch is conducted under HSI’s Operation Predator, an international initiative to protect children from sexual predators. Since the launch of Operation Predator in 2003, HSI has arrested more than 14,000 individuals for crimes against children, including the production and distribution of online child pornography, traveling overseas for sex with minors, and sex trafficking of children. In fiscal year 2015, nearly 2,400 individuals were arrested by HSI special agents under this initiative and more than 1,000 victims identified or rescued.

    HSI encourages the public to report suspected child predators and any suspicious activity through its toll-free Tip Line at 1-866-DHS-2-ICE or by completing its online tip form. Both are staffed around the clock by investigators. From outside the U.S. and Canada, callers should dial 802-872-6199. Hearing impaired users can call TTY 802-872-6196.

    Suspected child sexual exploitation or missing children may be reported to the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, an Operation Predator partner, via its toll-free 24-hour hotline, 1-800-THE-LOST.

    For additional information about wanted suspected child predators, download HSI’s Operation Predator smartphone app or visit the online suspect alerts page.

    https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-authorized-create-angel-watch-center-expand-child-protection-efforts-following

    Love the wording- child sex predators….yea like that’s who they are stopping

    • James

      Dear M:

      I wonder if there are any needles that can be threaded here, specifically:

      “Operation Angel Watch targets individuals who have been previously convicted of sexual crimes against a child and who may pose a potential new threat: traveling overseas for the purpose of sexually abusing or exploiting minors, a crime known as “child sex tourism.””

      The key here is, I think:

      “…who may pose a potential new threat: traveling overseas for the purpose of sexually abusing…”

      Would the above require some kind of independent assessment? They seem to be making a judgment in sending out our data….but if they are making a judgment, don’t they have a corresponding duty to determine why we pose a threat now, in these circumstances, even for this specific trip?!?

      I think so….but how to test this proposition?

      Best Wishes, James

    • America's Most Hated

      FYI… The vast majority of those Operation Predator arrests every year are criminal aliens inside the US arrested for deportation.

      I have my new Scarlett Letter passport finally. Cost me over $450 in fees, 6 weeks of lost work, and three months of crushing stress worrying about it. My other one still had 8.5 years left on it.

      So, I have a ticket to the EU. Will update what happens after I get in or I don’t get in.

    • Mike G

      @M
      Yeah, I’d like to know how they transitioned from “individuals who have been previously convicted of sexual crimes against a child” to “convicted child predators” two paragraphs later, giving the impression (intentionally I’m sure) that those are the same thing.

      Also, note that they never gave a breakdown of how many arrests were made just for “traveling overseas for sex with minors”. I’m betting you could count those on two hands or less.

      My wife and I are headed to Europe in about 10 days with my new “branded” passport. I’ll update with any unexpected situations.

  43. 290 air

    @America’s
    Did it take 3 months to get your passport? I’ve been waiting for 9 weeks and it still shows being processed. I guess I probably should have paid to expedite, but it killed me just to pay for a new one since i had 6 years left on the one they revoked.

    • America's Most Hated

      290, the first application took over two months to receive a denial after paying for expedited service. They said that since my passport had been revoked then it was no longer proof of citizenship. They made me order certified birth certificates from my state to apply as a brand new passport applicant. I had to interview with a passport control officer at the post office. Then I paid expedited again and it took 2.5 weeks to get my new book. So, expedited application twice plus $52 for a certificate of birth = $450. If you count the 6 weeks I sat at home waiting on it the first time without working then you can tack on another $9000 that it cost me to renew a passport that was still good for 8.5 years.

  44. e

    I have so much anxiety about this whole passport marking. I want to leave here, but am having a hard time with dealing with the shame of the marking. Especially since this, like everything else these days, I am having to deal with by myself.

    • R M

      @e: The endorsement in the passport is really irrelevant… the angel watch/USMS/usa wanting to rule the world notice is what matters if the “going to” country even cares.

    • AJ

      @e:
      From every report I’ve seen on here, it’s never even checked or noticed. Given every single passport has the advisory to see Page 27 for Endorsements, I suspect many people simply never check unless there’s something strange like a different name. I know a woman who had an endorsement indicating her married name. For whatever reason, it was faster or cheaper to do that instead of applying anew…plus she still had some years left on the maiden-name passport. When her passport didn’t match her airline ticket, she would always have to refer them to the Endorsement page. (Note that she had to refer them; they didn’t think of it themselves.)

      I understand your angst. I suspect you’ll be fine, especially if you get one of those clear covers @E (Big E?) used on his recent travels.

      • E

        Ha!

        I did not use the clear cover for passport control. Only with hotels and rental cars. But officers didn’t look at the back page either on the way in or out. That is Germany. They are looking for terrorists.

      • e

        I guess it’s the entire process. Having another country or individual be told you are a dangerous individual when you have done everything to prove otherwise. My neighbor came up to me today and said “ I heard you were a Pedophile”. That is not only disgusting to hear, it is utterly false! I want to go and live where I am not singled out and can live a life. I feel like the notice and the marking is stopping me from that.

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          “Actually, I’m a high-functioning ephebophile and I heard you were an asshole.” (tip of the hat to Benedict Cumberbatch’s “Sherlock”)

        • AJ

          @e:
          “I guess it’s the entire process. Having another country or individual be told you are a dangerous individual when you have done everything to prove otherwise.”
          —–
          Understood and agreed. And good luck proving a negative. As the punchline to an old joke goes, “But if you f#@k just ONE goat….”
          =====

          My neighbor came up to me today and said “ I heard you were a Pedophile”. That is not only disgusting to hear, it is utterly false!
          —–
          “What you heard is incorrect. If you’re curious to know the truth, you’re welcome to ask the source: me.” (This is of course if you care to have/build any sort of relationship with the neighbor. It could help, or it could fall flat on its face.)
          =====

          “I want to go and live where I am not singled out and can live a life.”
          —–
          Amen. As do all of us.
          =====

          “I feel like the notice and the marking is stopping me from that.”
          —–
          It’s certainly a hindrance and an effort to stop you from doing so, but it’s wholly in your control whether you decide to let it.

    • Will Allen

      Don’t accept shame. Anything that you might’ve done is between you and whomever you might’ve harmed. Historically, it has been the right of societies to know that one member has offended against one or other members. And it was society’s right to punish the offender. But Amerika left that moral high road long ago, so F them.

      It is no one’s business what you may or may not have done in the past. I’ve had people tell me differently but the Registries have made it exceptionally easy for me to say, “Guess what? You don’t f’ing matter or count at all. You probably aren’t even a human. So go F yourself and your family and mind your own damn business for a change.” It is very freeing and relaxing.

      Don’t accept shame. “People” who would put it on you aren’t worthy or capable.

  45. Bo

    There is a fill able form for 21 day notice of international travel, I discovered this with a CPRA request. Is this the form everyone is using?

    • James

      @Bo…Yes. (using it though with a deep sigh), Also….!

      Dear America’s Most and MikeG, and everyone else that reports on travel:

      I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for keeping us informed at all the twists and turns and hoops we are forced to jump thorough…you provide a valuable service to all of us that it is difficult for us to repay.

      Since I am not contributing much, I did go out of my way to Priority Mail today a formal letterhead letter in opposition to AB AB-884 so that it would arrive on Friday for some consideration, or at least added to the pile for the hearing on April 9.

      I know this is not much, but it was well written and well reasoned, so it is at least a minor gesture.

      But to circle back…thanks to everyone that adds to the growing body of information on Traveling, it is always interesting and important.

      Best Wishes, James

    • America's Most Hated

      For those of you with issues regarding the state no giving you a travel form, I had this problem years back too. The state DMV refused to give me the travel form I knew existed claiming it did not exist. So, the law states you must notify the jurisdiction of your residence 21 days in advance. That is vague in itself. The jurisdiction of your residence could be city, county, state or country. So I sent them all certified letters with return receipts notifying the lot of them and sent the receipts and letters to the State Dept. It is appalling that it means a felony prison sentence if we don’t do this, yet the states are under no obligation to accept the notifications from us. If we were any other class of people then someone would sue the govts and easily win, but we’re all just scumbags so nobody cares. Best wishes to you. Jump through all their Nazi hoops and have a nice vacation.

      • I Thought I Was America's Most Hated! D.I.K.

        Yes to all but, nope, THEY’RE the scumbags!

      • AJ

        @America’s Most Hated:
        “[T]he law states you must notify the jurisdiction of your residence 21 days in advance. That is vague in itself. The jurisdiction of your residence could be city, county, state or country.”
        —–
        No; AWA defines the applicable terms. 34 USC §20911(10) states….
        *****
        The term “jurisdiction” means any of the following:
        (A) A State.
        (B) The District of Columbia.
        (C) The Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.
        (D) Guam.
        (E) American Samoa.
        (F) The Northern Mariana Islands.
        (G) The United States Virgin Islands.
        (H) To the extent provided and subject to the requirements of section 20929 of this title, a federally recognized Indian tribe.
        *****
        Later, 34 USC §20932 refers to, “…jurisdictions, political subdivisions of jurisdictions,…” which would be any governmental body (city, county, township?) below the State level.
        =====

        “sent the receipts and letters to the State Dept.”
        —–
        State doesn’t give a hoot about it and has no say in the matter. USMS is who handles it all, but they outright say they do not and will not accept info directly from a RC…meaning it would probably a similar outcome as I’m guessing happened at State: round file.
        =====

        “It is appalling that it means a felony prison sentence if we don’t do this, yet the states are under no obligation to accept the notifications from us.”
        —–
        Inability to comply with a law is a valid defense…but that of course means you’ll BE on defense as you fight an IML violation from the Feds. No easy–or inexpensive!!–task on even a good day.

        • TS

          @Most hated

          See the last line of the info USMS says must be transmitted to them on travel notification, i.e. notifying agency, which you aren’t.

          @AJ

          Thanks. The “Resistance” will win and overseas travel will be had! Viva la resistance!

  46. steve

    So is everyone from California that’s traveling abroad just giving 21-day notice to your local registering office.?
    Nothing to the feds?

    • TS

      @steve

      Locals give it to the Feds. You keep two copies with you (on you and in your bag) and a third in a cloud for safekeeping.

      • Will Allen

        I have not seen anywhere that the criminal regimes have tried to force people to carry these “travel permission” papers. If not, I think it would be good to not carry them. F showing these criminals papers just to live a normal life. No one should ever pretend that’s acceptable. If they arrest you, it would be fun to sue them and make them pay.

        • R M

          Will, I am going to attend the DCS board meeting in Atlanta in June, are you interested in attending?

        • TS

          @Will Allen

          The USG will never make you carry what one submits to their local registry office for travel and proof they submitted it. When the USMS pulls someone off a plane or ship to ask about why they did not provide notification when they did before as required, you prove it was provided with this documentation and see that they get you back onto the plane or ship. Rubbing their noses into the fact the law was followed (recorded no less as possible) is satisfaction. (This does not include any problems the travel partners may incur as well as a result of the disconnection.)

          “See Sgt Schultz, I did what I needed to do, now get me back onto the plane or ship! You can keep these copies for your file!”

          Upon the return, then you go after the registering entity and the USMS about the issue, any extra fees required to be incurred, and emotional/mental distress (physically too if possible). As @AJ said, the states have the Tenth Amdt, so causing problems between the state and USG is what may happen as well as any civil monetary recourse sought by the injured party.

        • Will Allen

          R M:

          I am interested in pretty much everything but I can’t attend. I would not attend as Will Allen anyway.

          I read that you planned to attend but may not speak. If that is the case, why would you attend instead of just watching later? Just trying to understand. Are there some points you are trying to cover?

      • steve

        When I went into re-new my club membership they had no idea what I was talking about. I asked do I have to give them an itinerary they said I don’t have to do anything. I am going to give them mine but they don’t have a clue what to do with it. By the way, isn’t this just like being on probation when you have to report leaving the county? Having to submit where you are going and how long. I would think someone could argue that.

        • TS

          @steve

          What jurisdiction is this you are referring to, if you are comfortable sharing? As @AJ said, provide it and have proof you did, but leave to them the need to file it with the USMS. You may actually get them to do some work or find someone who knows what to do with it. Is that nervous for you? Yes, it would be, but copies and proof as we said will be more than just trusting the locals to do their job. Even if they are good at up-channeling it to the USMS, there is no guarantee that one time it will be missed and cause the same issue. If it makes you feel better, provide them the letter of the law where it shows what they have to do with it.

    • AJ

      @steve:
      IIRC, the Feds outright say they will not accept the info directly from travelers. Your obligation under Federal law is to submit the form to your jurisdiction. What your jurisdiction does after that is between them and the Feds. States have the 10th Amdt. on their side; you have nothing and must comply.

      As @TS said, keep copies for yourself. I would also ensure I have some sort of proof of submission to my jurisdiction.

      • steve @ TS& AJ

        Jurisdiction is Van Nuys PD. Nice cops who were unsure of travel requirements. They were telling me a guy was just there and going to Mexico and I said if his offense is child related he’ll be sent back and if he didn’t give notice he’s going to get charged. They were surprised to hear this.

        AJ- that’s what I plan on doing.

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      Steve, I have asked the registering “officer”/clerk at our local San Francisco registration hell about taking advance notifications pursuant to IML and she said that she’d never heard of it!! That’s pretty incredible/almost impossible to believe (she’s now been there for years). Has no S.F. registrant traveled and tried to be “in compliance?” And to think that there are more fucked-up states than California for registrants!

      For me, it’s academic as I have given up entirely on foreign travel until I get to travel without a marked passport and the Luciferian Angel Watch notices. I’m giving it 50/50.

      I think that this subject, i.e. ‘what to do when no one wants to take our travel notice?’ would make a good micro-conference call.

      • Jm from wi

        @ Notorious DIK/kennerly
        May I ask the reason for not traveling with the marked passport?
        Is it fear of consequences – rebellion – some sort of plan to facilitate future travel. …..?
        I recall your vast travel past. ….
        My passport has been revoked. I will be re-applying soon. Planning on European travel before visa requirement changes. I have nearly 10 euro trips. I am copying stamps for future proof of travel to facilitate visa entry. Any ideas to share.

    • David

      @ Bo and @ Steve: I’m in California. I use the 21 day notice form from the California DOJ. (Oddly, their form does not have any location to indicate return flight/travel information. [Maybe they’re giving me a hint “Go yes, but do not to return!”])
      I usually just email a PDF of the signed form to the registration person at the local police station and receive back a confirmation email affirming its receipt.

  47. Illinois Contact

    @Steve What state are you in? I too have run into a dead end in trying to submit the 21-day notice of foreign travel. I asked the Chicago Police officer when I went in for my annual renewal in Feb and he said there was no 21-day requirement in Illinois, that I would simply give the same three days in advance notice of “change of address” when i traveled anywhere, foreign or domestic. The Chicago police will NOT accept a notice of travel more than three days before leaving home. Illinois is a non-SORNA compliant state but I still thought the IML 21 day rule was a federal law, and I don’t want to be pulled off my plane before it departs. My wife and I are planning a vacation to Portugal in September. We are flying on TAP Air Portugal. Somehow that seems safer than a domestic airline like United. No mark on my passport; I haven’t traveled abroad since that started.

    • TS

      @IL contact

      Send it in anyway to be received at least 21 days in advance then repeat for 3 days if they declined the 21 day notice, though technically you did give 3 days notice. Maybe the precinct chief should have it since his force doesn’t know what to do with it and highlight the federal law you’re required to follow. CPD won’t pull you off the plane, but USMS will. You can’t help what they’ll do or not. As long as you CYA by law and mailing records, they’re stuck, not you. This is the same for @steve.

      Keep in mind the direction provided here for copies needed as you travel.

  48. Illinois Contact

    @TS Send WHAT in? A handwritten letter saying I’m going to Portugal on a certain date? Is there a prescribed form? Where to I get it? Do I need to include flight, hotel info? Who do I send it to? Chicago Police Department or Illinois State Police? To anyone’s attention? This entire process is crazy. How would USMS know I’m on a particular flight? Do you think they cross check every flight manifest with the sex offender registry of every state? That seems completely implausible. If the UWMS does pull me off a plane, what am I supposed to do — present them with a copy of a letter I allegedly mailed to someone? Would that satisfy them?

    Has anyone actually done this (mailed in a notification letter). Can you provide details and results?

    • TS

      @IL Contact (open this up to read it)

      First, refer to this webpage, Information Required for Notice of International Travel (https://smart.gov/international_travel.htm), for the travel specification notification details required by the registration entity you register with to complete a notification. They should pass this data to the USMS. (You are not the notifying agency, so disregard that line.)

      Replies to your questions are:

      WHAT in? Your travel details as described on the webpage above.

      A handwritten letter saying I’m going to Portugal on a certain date? If there is no form, then, yes, this technically works (with all of the travel details noted above too beyond the departure date), but typed would be better.

      Is there a prescribed form? There could be, but not every entity is going to have one.

      Where do I get it? Ask your registering entity for one. If they don’t have one, then go to another precinct, town, county, or state registering office where you can ask if they have one. Don’t mention you are in Chicago, but are looking for the form until you have exhausted the IL registering resources with no success or have found one.

      Do I need to include flight, hotel info? Yes, as noted above

      Who do I send it to? Your registering entity (local office to you would be best unless they tell you differently)

      Chicago Police Department or Illinois State Police? You said Chicago PD is your registering entity, so they would get the travel notification from you.

      To anyone’s attention? To the registering official, or a designated point of contact, who should receive the three day notification (and will receive the 21 day notification). The registering official should tell you who that is or you will need to call until you get an answer (or go in person which will be faster).

      How would USMS know I’m on a particular flight? They will know because they will know the passenger manifest with your PNR (passenger name record).

      Do you think they cross check every flight manifest with the sex offender registry of every state? No, they will check with the master FBI database, which is fed by the state databases, with every international flight just as they do for others with backgrounds they are aware of.

      If the USMS does pull me off a plane, what am I supposed to do — present them with a copy of a letter I allegedly mailed to someone? Yes, present them with what you notified the registering entity with (all the details above either on a form or a letter) and when with proof it arrived at or by 21 days in advance.

      Would that satisfy them? If you met the letter of the law as you are supposed to, then it should. Again, you cannot guarantee those in IL will do their part in getting your notification to the right folks, but you can guarantee you do your part in meeting the law, even if it is a pain in the ass to find the answers as you wrote above. If you can prove to them you did your part, then, in theory, you should be ok to travel. No guarantees on any of this.

      This entire process is crazy. (Yes, it is, but one you can manage by doing due diligence in advance. Not every place is going to be organized with forms, etc. It may be frustrating, but if you want to go international, then you need to do some work here to meet the law. Don’t make it harder than it needs to be and don’t let it get to you. If CPD is not going to help with a form, go elsewhere for the form or provide a letter. If they aren’t going to help with a POC for the travel data, then ask another CPD place (HQ if needed) for the recipient of it. I believe in the end you will find the info you need to do this, whether it is a form, a letter, and a person who needs to receive for processing. Worst comes to worst, call the USMS office in Chicago and see if they can give you the CPD data you want. Reverse engineering is not the worst idea here.)

      You can also contact IL Voices who may be able to help you with this (an IL org similar to ACSOL). Also, keep this forum appraised of your progress and travel through completion so it can be compared to others who have traveled.

      • AJ

        @TS:
        Nice job on the detailed reply and explanations.

      • Mike G

        RE: 21 day notification form – My 2 cents worth.

        My registering agency here in Central California has copies of the form – they happen to be printed on green paper.
        For my last several trips, I have walked up to the registration window, handed the officer the filled out form, he stamped it Received (with the date), made a copy, handed me the copy, and said he would put the original in my file. I got the impression that it may not have gotten further than that.

        This time was different. I went to the window with the form, the officer said what do you want? I said I want to turn in this form. He said, well, sign in, and wait your turn like everyone else. Of course, everyone else was there to renew their registration, so I waited just under an hour for my turn. When they called my name, I handed them the form. They then wanted to see my ID, and twice said “Are you sure you don’t need to register?” I said, “No, I just need to turn in this form.” So the officer took it, and said “Thank you.” I said, “don’t you need to stamp it as received and give me a copy?” He said, “I’ll make you a copy this time, but next time make your own copy.” Of course I said “What about stamping it?” He said, “we don’t do that anymore. We have a new system and we just enter it in online, and it uploads directly to DOJ, Department of State (Satan watch?), ICE, and INTERPOL. Don’t worry, they will have the information on file.”

        Well now, I’m worrying. First, I have a copy with no proof that I ever turned it in to anyone. And second, what the heck are all these agencies going to do with the information now? Will I make it through Customs in Germany? Will I get pulled off the plane there, or in Italy?” Will they notify the airline? Will they notify our hotel? Will they notify the Cruise Line we are supposed to board?

        I guess a week from tomorrow, I will have most of those answers, but I may lose a lot of sleep before then 🙁

        • TS

          @Mike G

          Don’t buy into what they say. They want to scare you. It goes to the Feds, then they deal with it as needed, not straight to overseas. Roscoe there is inflating himself.

          You can tell him that the hotel had a nice welcome basket for you upon your arrival as you thank him for the help.

        • Bo

          What city in central cal?

        • Mike G

          @Bo Fresno County Sheriff
          @TS I sure hope you are right. I appreciate the pep talk 🙂

        • Will Allen

          Sounds like you need video of every interaction with them. Every time.

        • TS

          @Mike G

          Think of it this way: you’ve done your part.  Roscoe wants you to be scared. DOJ gets your info from him, sends it to USMS who passes it to Interpol, et al, after analysis. CBP gets it in there somehow for your return.

          Get on the plane and depart, be relieved. Get to Germany, should be ok, may be questioned on entry but no guarantees (same with anyone else traveling in today’s world). Enjoy it anyway. Go to Italia, same as Germany. Come home, maybe CBP pulls you aside for secondary, maybe not.  If you have your clear passport cover, then use it as the other traveler here did. Lederhosen to the left, beer steins to the right, there you are in the middle of them.

          You want to send home your electronic devices ahead of you going home to avoid intrusion, do so (we’ve discussed that here before). 

          You want two hard copies of your notification with you (good call on rec’d stamp) and in the cloud.

          Go and enjoy!  Just report here how it goes as it happens or afterward in one post so any info can be learned for others.

          Btw, if they’re going to not stamp physically receiving the travel notification by hand, then mail it so it can be tracked and proved to have be delivered at or by 21 days.

    • Aman

      Ok… Here is what I know about my experience from traveling overseas. At least 21 days before you travel out of the country you must submit a signed letter (typed has always been fine for me) clearly showing your dates of travel, all flight information and where you will be staying. You will also need to include your passport number social security number and visa number if you need one. I suggest making a copy to be stamped by the person you give your notice to who will be the person in charge of your registration. If you are pulled off the plane just do what you are told, relax and take the next flight back. Nothing will satisfy them, they know you have permission and they just don’t care. Those are the rules for travel overseas. Check with your registration office for the exact rules for you in your state first as somethings may be a bit different.

      • NY won’t let go

        I was just thinking and I realize NY never asked for my passport number. I remember asking them if I needed it and they told me they didn’t. The form they had me fill out asked for it though. They just asked for my flight info.

        But then again this was a few years ago.

      • David

        “….do what you are told, relax and take the next flight back”?? No way! Instead, do your due diligence before traveling, researching what country you’re going to and making sure it won’t be a problem. Likewise, be absolutely certain that the flights you are taking do not stop, layover or change airplanes in a country that is hostile and likely to turn you back.

  49. RegistrantNotAnOffender

    If you yes his comments to find you your alternative is just to stay in your house for the rest of your life. No one is going to ask you why you have a marked passport, more more people are going to end up with it before things are all said and done.

  50. TRS

    I wonder if the US government has ever taken a registrant’s travel plan under the IML, and based on conviction involving minors and prediction of travel patterns, if they ever fabricated that person’s information to make it sound like that he/she is a risk to commit harm against children and then notices get sent out?

    • Mike G

      @TRS
      The government doesn’t need to fabricate it. When I was rejected entry into Thailand, the officers showed me the paperwork they received from Satan (Angel) Watch. Included was an 8 1/2 x 11 printout of my mugshot copied from some “child protection” website. The caption under my photo was “Sexually Violent Child Predator”. Of course, that is not within a hundred miles of the truth, but Satan Watch had no problem using it to impress the Thai officials.

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