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Passport revoked

[narsol.org 4/27/18]

By Scott . . . I’m on the board of Illinois Voices for Reform and have been actively involved with the organization since 2012. I am on the registry for life as currently required by Illinois law due to an incident involving a minor back in 2008. I served two years of probation and successfully completed sex offender counseling in 2012. My wife and I love to travel, and we were fortunate to be able to travel to Europe for a week at the end of March. I gave the federally required 21 days international travel notice to my local police department. I had no problems traveling to Europe other than the usual hassle of being sent to secondary at O’Hare airport upon return to the U.S. which is typically a 5-10 minute inconvenience.

Approximately two weeks after I returned from Europe, the U.S. State Department sent out a passport revocation letter as required by International Megan’s Law. This letter arrived at my home via certified mail about a week after they sent it. The letter, as shown, requires me to immediately return my passport since under federal law my passport needs to contain words alerting countries that I was convicted of a sex offense against a minor. The government requires me to return my passport, and if I want a new one, I have to apply for one as if I have never had a passport. The expense will be around $200 for a new passport which includes obtaining a copy of my birth certificate ($26), another 10-year passport ($110) which, by the way, I had already renewed last year, and the execution fee ($35).

If the government requires this stamp on my passport, I can’t understand why they just don’t make me mail in the passport so that some overpaid government worker can stamp it and mail it back to me. Why does the government revoke my passport and make me go through the expense and hassle of renewing the passport?

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Just keep in mind that people who support this harassment deserve to be punished. They are not Americans. They are not your neighbors. They are criminal, harassing terrorists who cannot mind their own business or leave other people alone. Their intent is to harm people, their spouses, and their children.

@FRegistryTerrorists, I assume you mean POLITICALLY punished, with which I would agree.

However, ACSOL and other organizations fighting for the rights of registrants would condemn any kind of violence or other illegal actions. If anyone were to do illegal actions, it would strip whatever little hard-earned sympathy we have slowly been earning from society.

Let’s work TOGETHER to Show Up, Stand Up, and Speak Up. We can use people like MLK as inspiration for lasting change.

If this wasn’t punishment and harassment then the more effective way would be to e-mail the appropriate authorities at your destination. Why is allowing non-professionals at service desks who see your passport doing justice or protecting children? And what does the person at the airline counter do when they see your passport? They notify the appropriate authorities, which could have been done before the traveler left. No, this is clearly about public humiliation as a form of punishment. Otherwise a more effective and professional confidential means would be made. If a person is a drug smuggler it isn’t stamped on… Read more »

And what happens if you simply refuse to send in your passport? If this happens to me, I fully intend to commit civil disobedience and hold onto my existing passport. The silver lining may be that registrants could appeal their underlying conviction on the grounds that had they known about this passport requirement, they would have pled not guilty and gone to trial. I certainly intend to challenge my underlying misdemeanor conviction if I receive such a letter regarding my passport. We should all, at the very least, bring litigation in these cases. If you lack funds, most states will… Read more »

Wouldn’t it be revoked automatically in the System?

Absolutely.

I really struggle to see how the government can demand them back. They’ve already canceled the damned things and they won’t work. On what basis can they demand their return? Apart from seizing the passports of those under criminal indictment to prevent them fleeing the tender mercies of the U.S. “justice system,” I can think of no other occasion when they have “demanded” them back. Personally, I would keep it.

@David K – Exactly. In this case they are requesting that you apply for a new passport as if you’re almost never had one. I am going to Europe this summer for work and it will be interesting to see if I get a letter upon my return. Beyond fighting them over the language of the word conviction which my 1203.4 supposedly removes ever have been convicted I will set that passport aside and when I get my new one with the supposed identifier on the back page I will keep the old one and use it when I travel… Read more »

I like your spirit. However, when you get a new passport, they expect you to turn in your old one which they will return to you, albeit with a hole drilled all the way through it, just to put a fine point on its invalidity. If you fail to turn in your old passport, even if you say that you’ve lost it, the State Department will make you pay in other ways. You go on a list that says that you are suspected of not playing nice with the government, your lord-and-master, and this has a way of following you.… Read more »

I wonder how difficult it would be to simply remove the “marker” on the back page, like if the ink could be obscured or altered in some way to make it illegible. In any case, I don’t intend to give up my passport if I ever receive such a letter. I doubt any government official would come to my door seeking my passport, however I suspect that once revoked in the system, officials at the border would then seize the passport. I’m not sure how it works. I wonder about registrants living in states that have chosen against implementing Real… Read more »

@Sunny, et al Altering a passport is frowned upon. Read below: Passport and Visa Fraud: A Quick Course https://www.state.gov/m/ds/investigat/c10714.htm 18 U.S. Code § 1543 – Forgery or false use of passport https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1543 Whoever falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, mutilates, or alters any passport or instrument purporting to be a passport, with intent that the same may be used; or Whoever willfully and knowingly uses, or attempts to use, or furnishes to another for use any such false, forged, counterfeited, mutilated, or altered passport or instrument purporting to be a passport, or any passport validly issued which has become void by the… Read more »

@Mr. D.:
Beyond fighting them over the language of the word conviction which my 1203.4 supposedly removes ever have been convicted[.]
—–
Good luck fighting a Federal law using a California law. The Federal definition of “conviction” operates independent of any State definitions or actions.

David Kennerly, The Government-Driven Life (April 29, 2018): I can’t see giving a passport or anything else back to the criminal regimes. It’s just wrong. But if it’s an actual legal requirement, then a person ought to do it for the only reason of protecting themselves. I certainly wouldn’t carry an illegal passport around. However, it would be extremely funny to burn the passport and then return a very, very nasty letter to the criminal regime. Perhaps something that started: “I’m sorry but I don’t have my passport any longer. I loaned it to an international terrorist. No, that’s not… Read more »

One way they could get their revoked passport in your name back is through a compliance check with a few extra people involved during a multi-agency compliance sweep possibly where you are highlighted for checking on and retrieving of it (but you wouldn’t know it) or since FBI/Marshal’s are able to do the work on request from the Department of State and they happen to be in the area with the local LE office doing similar compliance work. Not saying they would go the distance to do this for retrieving it, but since RCs know these checks do happen, the… Read more »

@Hypothetical revoked passport retrieval:
Just how would local LE, FBI, USMS, State, or *any* government body get the passport without a warrant? If anyone is letting *any* LEO across their threshold for any reason that doesn’t involve supervision or a warrant, they’re putting themselves at needless, extreme risk. Beyond that, what’s to say you haven’t already mailed it in and it got lost? There are many cases of Post Office types hoarding, and even burning, undelivered mail for years. Maybe one’s returned passport suffered a similar fate.

Methinks your hypothetical lacking.

I like your civil disobedience idea. I’m not sure how it would work, because all U.S. passports clearly state that they are the property of U.S. government and may be revoked at its discretion. Nonetheless, the fact that we are being singled out for persecution and others (i.e., drug dealers, bank robbers, etc) are not being so identified, certainly would be a good argument of unequal treatment. (In my own humble I-am-not-a-lawyer opinion.) I am hoping that the lawsuit against IML will result in an injunction against D.O.S. revoking any more passports. I will be heading to Europe in the… Read more »

I have never heard of State ever demanding the return of a passport unless it belonged to the subject of a criminal investigation out on bail. Although, they may do this with so-called “deadbeat dads” and people accused of stealing their own money from the federal government in the form of tax avoidance, I had assumed that they just canceled the passports in their monster system in which case they’re pretty useless anyway as a viable travel document unless you’re a black marketeer and know how to modify it to match an actual person. If it were me, and I… Read more »

@David Kennerly: I have never heard of State ever demanding the return of a passport unless it belonged to the subject of a criminal investigation out on bail. —– I agree. I know multiple federal employees who have kept their Official passports after expiration, despite their being property of the USG. Official passports are those used by federal employees, other than diplomats (who get ones that say “Diplomat” on them), when traveling internationally on USG business. They’re only good for 5 years, are embossed with “OFFICIAL” on the cover, and the cover is red-brown, instead of blue. I think the… Read more »

I would suggest Scott gets the best Lawyer that he can, or joins a class-action lawsuit if possible in any way. Suing the idiots in government is the only chance for justice. Scott certainly made the ultimate mistake, and that was being honest with with his Government and giving that travel notice. You might as well have said you were Jewish to the Nazi Regime. When people get it through their heads finally that this government does NOT, in ANY WAY, have your best intentions at heart, then maybe they will stand together and say ‘Uncle sam, please shove these… Read more »

@JohnDoe:
Scott certainly made the ultimate mistake, and that was being honest with with his Government and giving that travel notice.
—–
Riiigght, because the Feds never crosscheck travelers against criminal databases or anything. And goodness knows USMS would never lurk at the departure gate to nab someone, making an example out of them. What the heck was he thinking, avoiding a Federal offense?

FYI, in NY if you’re on parole or probation and intend on travelling abroad, the probation office will require you to submit your old passport and apply for and obtain a new IML passport before you travel.

They say “We’re just following what IML clearly states you need to do”.

Congress acts to protect non US constituency interests….sold out for sure. Blame the russians. Housed in Utah the Angel Watch programs in that pesky NSA facility used to gather metadata under sec. 702 on All American Citizens, Biometric data as well. Head on over to eff.org for details on that.

We are not experiencing a centralization of power are we?

Thanks, Timothy but I’m not finding a reference to the Utah Data Center and Angel Watch at EFF or on Google. Is it stated anywhere that those facilities are used for Angel Watch?

I wonder if this falls under the Eighth Amendment (Amendment VIII) of the United States Constitution prohibits the federal government from imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishments. You now are paying more for (because you are paying again) for the same privileges

I do NOT TRAVEL (just in the us) If im asked via letter… not happening, letter going in the TRASH SAME as the JURY NOTICE Letters do ! LOL
A passport is great as a second id (bank account or whatever) yea they MA?Y enter it into the bank system but they dont use it for anything other than

I used to reply convicted on such and such, and would return it UNSIGNED I got a reply saying SIGN Here, tossed it in the trash to ! haha

Recently traveled to Asia to visit family and also for business. My wife and child hold both US and foriegn passports. I gave the 21 day notice. Upon arrival at destination I was held in custody under guard in a “hotel” room that I was obliged to pay for. Ended up being given a mattress on the floor in the middle of the night between two strangers. Wasnt allowed to purchase water or food. Luckily one of my fellow “inmates” allowed me to have some of his water as I had medications that I needed to take. Come morning I… Read more »

You mentioned that you recently traveled to Asia, and then months later you received a revocation letter.

When exactly did you travel to Asia?

How long ago did you receive your letter?

Which country was it?

@Justa# There are probably many of us with similar experiences, but your treatment was much worse than mine. I traveled to an Asian country (Thailand) with my wife to visit her family whom I had never met. Ironically, my wife and daughter also have U.S. and Thai passports. They were waiting for me (4 security people) with a placard with my name on it as I got off the plane. I thought my wife’s family had arranged a special welcome for me! Well it was special. After I identified myself to them, they escorted me and my wife to a… Read more »

Retaliate. Just keep it legal. Not because that is the right thing to do, but because their “laws” are weapons that they will certainly use in war.

Find people who directly support these actions and figure out how to lower the quality of their lives. It is important to deliver hate directly to the homes and families of people who support this. They must suffer and not enjoy peace.

@Mike G
“they showed me a copy of the letter they had received from the U.S. Government (Angel Watch). Attached to the letter was an 8 1/2 x 11 photo of me taken from some website, and on my picture it said “Child Sex Predator””

It is a shame you could not take a picture of this letter and accompanying photo with your cellphone.

Retaliate. Just keep it legal. Not because that is the right thing to do, but because their “laws” are weapons that they will certainly use in war.

Find people who directly support these actions and figure out how to lower the quality of their lives. It is important to deliver hate directly to the homes and families of people who support this. They must suffer and not enjoy peace.

Is there an updated list of countries able 2 travel with the new stamped passport?

I would like to know if I have to pay my restatotion before i can get off prole I owe 198.00

Restitution and fines must be paid prior to getting off probation or parole. Your probation or parole can be extended by the court until all conditions of your sentence are completed.

Why hasn’t anyone raised an 8th amendment violation claim on this? There already seems to be precedence in rulings that specifically mention the idea of “public shaming” as being cruel and unusual. If having a special mark on your passport denoting you are a RC that, to me, is the very definition of public shaming as every official you hand that passport will automatically assume you are some sort of monster etc etc. First time posting, eagerly awaiting the outcome from the Colorado case, not a lawyer but from what I have read and what I think I understand IML… Read more »

For fear of getting laughed and booed out of this thread of the forum, some red team thinking of my own (devil’s advocate if you prefer, but using a business review term) on the passport marking to consider: The marker is on the last page for a reason: To avoid the implications of a marker on the front cover or front page(s) that was common to the ID papers design during the time when Jewish people were identified with their marker on/in their ID papers and clothing. This would be how the USG would get around the comparisons today being… Read more »

@J

Harm would mostly likely need to happen first due to the stamp so the public shame you mentioned is documented and can be used in a case against the stamp. That could happen wherever the passport is used as an ID when required, domestically or internationally, during travel or in everyday life where it is used as an ID and the stamp page is seen. Just a thought…

@TS Yes I think the whole “put it on the last page” was exactly that a lame attempt to avoid comparison. The fact still remains that they are singling out a certain population regardless of WHERE they put any kind of mark. Its just like the terminology that surrounds RC’s. First it was “sex offender” and the very nature of the term is brilliant in the terms of propaganda because when someone hears that they think of someone who is “other” or less than or dangerous. Then they started using “registered sex offender” (any news story will always use this… Read more »

The people who support the Registries (Registry Terrorists (RTs)) and the subsequent travel ban are scumbags. They might even be stupid enough to think that their “laws” do something useful. Hard to believe, but they are stupid, stupid people. For me personally, I make sure that I structured my life so that I never do anything that conceivable do anything beneficial for an RT or his/her family. Those people are anti-American enemies to me. I always recommend that Registered People structure their lives to help and support people that they know are good and forget everyone else. You are right… Read more »

@J

I would say let’s see where Millard in CO at the Tenth goes so we know which tine of the fork in the road is the one to take after it’s ruling. It is possible it could be applicable based upon principle, but I’d bet harm still needs to be documented as noted before.

@J – The courts have done a fine job of contorting themselves to get around every constitutional violation the registry as a whole is breaking. There are some states that label driver licenses like that. Even worse, some cities take out entire billboards to let people know and RC is in town. At the end, the courts say the registry and everything that goes with it isn’t “punishment” but a civil action that protects the public so it’s all okay. It’s really only in the last two or so years that more and more judges have actually stopped this stupid… Read more »

@Will Allen I am going to live my life like that from now on because while I personally know quite a few RC’s who have never been harassed or messed with I will not take the chance. I was a marksman before and anything I did with a rifle can be done with a compound or crossbow. I will not take any chances. Even if it never actually happens I will always be prepared. You can do or say whatever you want about me. Come after my fiancee or our girls and I will put you in the ground. Not… Read more »

I’m in the process of obtaining a visa to spend a length of time abroad. Once issued, the visa will be affixed to my US passport. Not wanting them to put this hard-earned visa into a passport that will be revoked, I renewed early with the intention of getting a new passport with the IML marker. The country issuing the visa won’t care about the marking since they already know about my status. I paid the money and got the new passport this week. It did NOT have the IML marking. I made contact with the registration specialist here in… Read more »

@ Worried in Wisconsin: I suspected the trigger for one’s passport being revoked is when the passport is actually used for a trip outside of the US. The use of the passport indicates to the State Department that you are someone who actually does travel internationally. (The State Department has very little incentive to revoke someone’s passport if it is never used and is simply gathers dust in a dresser or desk drawer.)

I’m still most interested in hearing full travel reports of anyone who USES their new marked passport. Please report back if you are or are not permitted entry with the new passport!

@David

They may not be concerned until the passport is used to travel internationally, but it can be used domestically as a second ID legally.

@David,

The State Department could also be setting priorities in order to revoke Passports for certain RSO’s depending upon their Level.

I haven’t really seen any report for the last month or so, of someone receiving the Passport Revocation Notification Letter.

It would be enormously helpful and enlightening for us all if we could be told for anyone traveling/passport revoked what your crime was-still on parole- still RSO- what level.

This way we maybe can figure out what their method is

Maybe those of us on this forum who travel internationally have already been revoked :). I have yet to apply for my scarlet letter but likely will. I have a business trip to Europe planned for this fall but really wanted to see a couple other guinnea pigs try out the new passport and report back before I take the plunge, even to Europe. The only report I’ve actually seen here was from RM in WI (I think I got that right) a few months ago, whose friend traveled with a marked passport and went through passport control with no… Read more »

@PK

As you may recall, mine was one of the first revocations. My crime was touching a little girls chest at her request (CA 288(a) Lewd conduct with a minor under age 14) 24 years ago.

Doubt I would be high on their seriousness list, but with this government, who knows?

@Mike G

I think what happened to you made this real for everyone who participates in this forum.

If you are off registry, your passport is no longer marked.

So, the passport isn’t marked. But notices can and probably will still be sent.

@hysteria

If you are on the registry, the passport does not necessarily receive the mark. Marking is all contingent upon the marking law and the offense.

As of Feb 2018, I completed a 8 year deferred probation for sexual assault (child 14). Technically, I am NOT a convicted felon. I applied for my passport in July 2018 and received it in August 2018. I noticed it did NOT come with any special marking. Am I missing something?

“Am I missing something?” Yes, you’re missing the special marking. Count yourself lucky.

Same thing happened to me. Got mine a month ago no marking. It seems once you travel you get revoked. Whether that be after your trip, while at the airport leaving the country or in a foreign land. There’s no way to know.

Just found out about this law since I live out side the us as an expat. How long are those new passports good for

Ten years, as with “regular,” unmarked passports.

Why is no one concerned about being flagged upon arrival at destination and being sent back to origin? The indentifier is problematic as it is, but to have scheduled and paid for a trip, only to be apprehended and forced to return to the US is my real fear in this unfair legislation. Am I correct in the assumption of this protocol? Thank you.

I advise registrants to use their passport on a domestic flight first. If revoked they can use a state ID in the mean time.

@RegistrantNotAnOffender: “I advise registrants to use their passport on a domestic flight first.” —– To what end? I’ve used my Passport Card (which I’m technically no longer allowed to have) for domestic travel and nobody bats an eye. Neither the airline nor TSA ever do anything with it besides check that it’s valid and that my info matches my ticket. A passport, like the card, will simply be inspected and handed back. Heck, I have personal knowledge of someone who flew cross-country while he had an arrest warrant pending. His attorney was stunned he wasn’t picked up by TSA. Personally,… Read more »

I suppose it depends on what airport you fly out of.

https://www.thoughtco.com/tsa-id-boarding-pass-scanning-system-3321289

Lots of us are concerned. Patience seems to be the concept. Europe is one of our last places to travel in. My passport is now revoked. I will be applying for my stamped one soon. I am hoping to document enough travel to continue European travel when visa’s become the norm in 2021. I do not travel where I might be sent back. I document clearly my travel dates to be sorna compliant. I’ve donated several thousand to narsol & ACSOL. check out the get involved section of acsol/conference calls also int. travel section. lots of up to date info.… Read more »

I have just recieved my 7th, yes you read that crrectly, 7th passport now with NO marking. I am a RSO and this is what I feel is the latest ploy to be able to refuse rso’s from leaving the United States.

I have all 7 envelopes from the US State Department for all passports recieved.

The 7th passport with NO marking at all, even though I sent a letter each time informing that I was a registered sex offender.

One doesn’t get the marking based solely on being a RSO. There is additional criteria. Is your offense against a minor?

I don’t understand why people are trying to get a passport with the marking. Until it’s revoked, you have a perfectly valid passport without the mark. Why stir the pot?

@Stephen H.

There is a genuine fear by those who want to travel, and will need to hold a marked passport eventually if they desire to travel further, but don’t have one that something will happen when they try to travel on an unmarked passport. e.g. pulled aside at the airport, denied entry abroad, etc. I don’t recall any experiences here in this forum shared with such antics, but given the oddity of it, their fear seems reasonable.

@Dave But are you a “covered” person forced to register (aka sex offender in society’s paralance) by the definition they give as to one who should receive the passport w/text (i.e. conviction concerning a minor involved – see State Dept passport website with specific info on this)? I am not asking you to answer that question here, but saying if you are not covered by their definition, you won’t get a marked passport. The other thing we are gathering is those who are forthright and trying to do the right thing by asking for a marked passport when they should… Read more »

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