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ACSOL Conference Oct 1, 2022 

National

SCOTUS: Petition Maryland v. Rogers

Maryland v. Rogers addresses whether sex offender registration is “punishment” within the meaning of the Sixth and 14th Amendments. Jimmie Rogers pleaded guilty to a Maryland criminal law that provides that a person may not knowingly “take or cause another to be taken to any place for prostitution.” Because the victim’s age was not an element of the offense, the prosecution did not present evidence of her age. However, the Maryland Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services determined that the victim was a minor. After Rogers’ release from prison, the department classified him as a Tier II sex offender, which requires registration for 25 years for human-trafficking offenses against minors. In contrast, a Tier I sex offender must register for only 15 years and may petition for removal after 10 years. The Maryland Court of Appeals, the state’s highest court, determined that sex offender registration constitutes punishment for which the state must prove all elements beyond a reasonable doubt. The Maryland attorney general’s petition asks the justices to review that decision, arguing that it conflicts with two Supreme Court decisions and other lower-court and state-court decisions. Case Files

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Here’s hoping the case will be viewed objectively and rightfully determined that all things registering post sentence is punishment, and not end up being overturned through some legal mumbo-jumbo technicalities. All too often the rulings come off as “well, the bully (government) was using your own hand to ‘punch yourself’, thus its perfectly fine for the bully to continue doing so as they technically not hitting you directly”.

This is really what I see it as most of the time, especially when the government collects emails, sends them to social media sites, who then banish RCs. Its a sweety technicality around the recent ruling of the government not being able to directly keep people off social media.

Likewise with the registry in general. Well, we didn’t send those people to burn down your house and assault you. We just provided everything one needs to do so.

And we definitely aren’t banning you from traveling internationally. We, once again, are simply providing all the information for this one narrow class of people, and what happens happens.

None of this collateral damage is intentional *wink wink*

They are requesting the SCOTUS to take up the case? And if they do not the ruling stands?

I hope someone can or would please interpret this.

Ginsburg would’ve definitely ruled it punishment. She did I do believe back in smith vs doe. Sadly her replacement, was part of the 10th circuit that ruled it no punishment but civil in August. 🙁 aka don’t count on it guys. We lost one of our main advocates on the court, and her replacement is a very pro registry “Christian” woman. Honestly, I’m sad this didn’t go through earlier this year when Ginsburg was alive 🙁 I feel defeated a lot lately by the registry.

“This Issue Is of Exceptional Importance Because of the Continued Danger Posed by Sex Offenders in the Community and Because the Decision Below Calls into Question the Convictions of Numerous Maryland Sex Offenders .”

Hopefully evidence will be produced to refute these claims. That could be why the state appealed to SCOTUS and bypassed the circuit court of appeals, where evidence would more likely be evaluated for SCOTUS. Otherwise, these quoted claims — “Continued Danger” and “Numerous” — will be taken as true. Sneaky.

Or maybe I could refute myself by reading the Court of Appeals of Maryland opinion, where there could be plenty of evidence submitted and relied upon. Any case that reaches SCOTUS has to have tons of evidence in support, enough evidence to drown Smith vs. Doe.

May I butt in for a munute to maybe shed some light on ankle’s and some others view’s of this good news of this Marryland case of old. Yes government should honor Ms. ginsburgs last wishes. Government wants to jump the gun in all in many ways and I’m sure Trump has his own agenta and yes these races can be a smear and very messy and bit much, even with this passage of Ginsburg. And yes Maryland is a small area compared to California and other jurisdictions. Wow now I’m crazy like David said.

What is the difference in a Christian and a disciple. Remember the diciples ran away. Yes, we proposed, (theirs that word again) Jesus as many of you thought came to call the sinner and not the righteous. So who or what government is using principals out of line in many issues today. Sure if I wanted to look at my own case its all based on sin factor with a catch 22 factor that is badly out of line. Government even know’s that but won’t admit to their wrong doings in so many ways. Correct me if I am wrong .

Yes getting into one’s car and traveling (Its what they call traveling) down, they say. denotes action but who really did the action in this whole set up ordeal via the internet. I even asked about that and they said if you didnt’ come down we were coming to get you.

In many of your alls’ ordeals who was pressing or asking you for pictures, and other things and intimidating you to come down in so many callous ways in this painted black episode. Many go thru these ordeals from the high school, college kids, to the middle age american and now to kids getting wrapped up into all this registry ordeal. One wonders if traveling by deception is a case in itself today.

This is probably old news to many, but unless I’m misreading it, Maryland had already found registration to be punitive (and a lot of evidence had to have been presented in that case). So it looks like this case is just an extension of that because if it is punitive it must follow sentencing punishment law, and that relies on “elements” of the statutory reading. It is an interesting opinion but very long, too long from me to read in one sitting.

https://law.justia.com/cases/maryland/court-of-appeals/2020/32-19.html

It may seem odd, but if she’s going to be confirmed anyway, I hope Barrett will be seated in time to hear this case. Say what you will, the Catholics have had 2,000 years worth of scholarly considerations of fairness, justice, ethics and compassion. I expect Barrett to be thoroughly steeped in it.

My thought is that the more ‘conservative’ justices there are on the court might be better in some ways for registry cases. Justices that insist on an originalist’s reading of the Constitution, as written, would agree that the powers being used to enforce SORNA are not legitimate and are an over reach. My hope is that they decide the Feds have no jurisdiction in what should be a State matter, not Federal.

David you made a statement or something on here about is my crazy jabbering better than yours and I win. If it was all about winning I’m sure I would of said something to my guilt plea in court. Yes I’m sure they would of gave me liberty to stand up in my own defense. At times its best to be silent and listen or one can be hard headed and go with proses and con’s such as its all about database, someone’s view’s of catholic’s or other religons or maybe pink and purple hairdoo’s in the courtroom are the better way to go to draw attention, so who or what brings in justice in many of these case files of Maryland or others which may shed some light on each of these offender cases.

Can we all say the bible with its understanding is the blue print of everything under the sun. Many good views but can we all overstep in many ways and I have no intentions as many of you, to run for President, its hard just being an umpire. I’m sure Janice and Chance have battled many cases in their firm.

Should we all go back to a bit of taming of the shrew or give me liberty or give me death, or this inbalance of the scales of true Justice in many of these registry plights in this halls of justice. Is this registry a Crusade for Justice or a hodge podge of man over man or who is the great prentender of little girl lost in this match girl of unethical endeavor and reasoning.

Janice and Chance and even the Ladies in W.A.R. are more in tune with much of this to help rid many of these registry callouses of misguidance of justice. Many times one’s mouth can overload their ……fill in the blank and yes we all can get involved in many ways that we shouldn’t of. Yes Janice, Chance, and many of the team and other advocates are sacrificing their time and talents just the same as many of you to come up with a plausible way to ffight this registry. Imput is good but who balks at another when the chips are down.

I thought Kennedy used frightening and high in the majority’s opinion. Where is the author of the original article and why hasn’t he been drug into court to clear up The mess he made? Now that would be poetic justice!!

Real talk. Let’s say it goes through and the Supreme Court rules it punishment. We cheer and party and such. But what does it mean in the long run? Does it mean the registry goes away? Are we all in double jeopardy and can petition off? Or is it just a recognition and things stay the same?

The following needs serious challenge, this demands friends of the court briefs to debunk these lies…..
“Since this Court decided Smith in 2003, Maryland
and other States have continued their efforts to
maintain effective registration systems to curb the risk
to public safety posed by sex offenders. That risk
remains “frightening and high.” Smith, 538 U.S. at 103.
A 2017 report by the Department of Justice’s Office of
Sex Offender Sentencing, Monitoring, Apprehending,
Registering, and Tracking (“SMART”) shows that the
15-year sexual recidivism rate for offenders who
already had a prior conviction for a sexual offense was
37 percent, and that more than one-quarter of all sexoffenders will commit another sexual offense within 20
years of release.4
Disturbingly, because “[r]esearch has
clearly demonstrated that many sex offenses are never
reported to authorities,” and “[s]ex offenders do not
typically self-report sex crimes,” the “[o]bserved recidivism rates of sex offenders are underestimates of
actual reoffending.” Id. at 3, 16, 109. “

One wonders who cry’s rape when the word mean’s so many different things. Or who drives their car off a bridge, or who goes to court without a charge. Sure I have gotten out of many of you all on here and also Janices team than in the past hearing NARSOLs view’s or W.A.R.s view’s, even nots from Once fallen and others.

Nothing wrong with working together. Dad had to do that many times to prepare to go to court. Yes Janices is right about this one jot of tittle, We can also use that in a biblical way.
Sure many are abusing folks and familes in much of this registry ordeal. Nothing wrong with standing up or should we use the dear tovgo to court un front of the unbleleivers. I even had the fortune to work out at Block Island, RI at a resort back in the 80’s . Yes I had heard that that area and surrending area’s was moffia types but I lay no claim on that understanding or those baseless rumors.

Here in my own backyard in Charlottesville, Va this Cartwell guy and white supremist thing is a wave factor or who is out of line today. So were does that leave the sexx offender or suppose sex offender, Stuck in the middle like some stelerswheel/beatle record. So is all this registry a pitfall ready to fall.

Janice’s team has always been on the right track since I came here many years ago but not its time to speak out as W.A.R. and their little demon stration. Wonder how that would go if one pitched it across all across the USA to many affiliates. Sure this Maryland ordeal speaks merits and also volumes and yes I myself wanted to speak up in my own ordeal.

All my sister said after the trial was over is how the prosecutor shamed me with those sexual words I uttered, like people haven’t been shamed before in America or even most of this immoral justice in this vain way but she has a differnt petogree than me guess that was from being a majorette in school or being in college prep. So its not all growing with the Jones or the Jefferson’s even the Simpson’s are a bit much of a cartoon. Look how the registry is in every state today.

@S.R. I like your measure of thought and JohnDoe’s. My sister went with me in my ordeal and yes their were a lot of papers to sign. She said go ahead and sign them after the PO explained them to us the best of his ability. When it came to sign another paper. I had the forethought to bring another person in to wittness what I was signing as the PO is always on the side of the law. That paper of the got ya paper that said you were talking to a teenage girl.

I can remember the lady that I brought with me saying don’t sign it as than they could hold you for life and you were the property of them. Whatever they pass or the bills it all leads to that paperwork that they wanted one to sign, it all leads to that paperwork.

So is it a paperchase or a paper trail in this tell of two governments wanting to be right. Sure government would induce people to sign their life away in many cases and wouldn’t think twice about the moral issues. Sure my dad left me with some sense to speak on my own behalf in much of this. Even jason said if they don’t release you in two years what than.
Something for everyone to stand up in much of this issue of fair government practices. Actually I was hoping Janice wouldn’t post that comment so I am sorry if it may or maynot confuse some.

imo sorna, sor, IML, etc… is to big, lots of $$$ behind it/being made off of it, etc… for SCOTUS to do away with it. yes there is politics/money involved even at SCOTUS level. i really hate saying and thinking this but I’m sorry it’s just to big now to go away.

ps. on a side not after being on the hit list more then 20 years with no re-offence i think it will be another 15 – 20 years before some of it starts to get relaxed as more and more people get on the hit list and when members of the hit list and their family’s start becoming a voting threat. yes when i was on it at the start of it there are many many people that are on it now that had called members of the price club all kinds of derogatory names; thus sadly when there are a few more million on it that’s when some laws will start to get relaxed.

pss. yes i truly hope this case ends it all as we all do however i just don’t see it as it is to big and too much $$$ is being made off of it.

Government of the corrupt, for profit, by the sheeple whom allow it. There’s an innocent concept of government one can believe in!! Feed me, sheeple. Feed me!!

I find it interesting that in most cases challenging registration, prosecutors imply that SCOTUS found registration to not be punishment per se. Because they know it is not true, they will never make that claim directly. What the Court found in Smith v. Doe and subsequent cases was that the specific registration implementations it considered did not constitute punishment. The Court has never answered the question of when particular statutory restrictions cross the line to becoming punishment. Generally courts don’t issue findings that go beyond the specifics of a case or are broader than necessary to answer the questions asked.

In the ‘Reasons’ section of its cert petition (pg. 12), the State of Maryland makes this point when it references ‘the intent-effects test.’ The intent part of the test will likely never be a win for registrants. Apparently, all legislatures need do is to make the statement that their intent is not punitive.

It is always the second prong of the test that is argued in registration cases. Registrants must demonstrate that the ‘effects’ of a particular law are so odious that they ‘negate’ a state’s intention to establish a civil regulatory scheme. SCOTUS will likely never draw bright lines as it did in Roe v. Wade, but may one day hold that a particular implementation has become punishment.

This all reminds me of the Bugs Bunny cartoon where Yosemite Sam is dared to cross successive lines until he steps off the cliff. SCOTUS has so far only nibbled at the margins of the punishment question, and has avoided providing actual guidance to the states. I would like to see all filings ask the lower courts to provide guidance as to when Yosemite Sam metaphorically falls off the cliff. Courts will tap dance around the question, but eventually that question may bubble up to SCOTUS.

the following statement is so true. If it goes unchallenged and is accepted in this case as facts it will be literally impossible to get the real facts in front of SCOTUS ever again.

“Also, as I stated to the Commission here in Utah, the studies looking at under-reporting are not objectively defensible. They are based on untested allegations of sexual abuse. Without a trier of fact in an unbiased court of law, it flys in the face of due process – innocent until proven guilty.

If we allow them to go unchallenged here, we will end up with “frightening and high” 2.0.”

While legislative intent is part of the package in deciding whether or not something is punishment, it’s by no means the whole package.

Extreme example…If a law was passed requiring hands to be chopped off of previously convicted thieve, even with pages of explanations about how this is merely an administrative action designed to protect the public from future theft, it would still be deemed punishment. Even if the recidivism rates of thieves was frighteningly high this would still be deemed punishment.

The initial case before SCOTUS centered around a requirement to mail a postcard once a year. We’re now far from that, but they have not yet caught up with the reality of what we all now live with on a daily basis. Not quite chopping off hands, but we’re getting there…

Being placed on the sexofender registry is literally a death sentence once probation or parole ends you feel relieved to no longer have to deal with Probation or parole you feel free to get on with your life not knowing the heartache and pain of never-ending punishment to come.
I think it’s after about 5 years you start to realize that you were never taken off probation /parole you still have to report to Law Enforcement you still must submit to compliance checks /home visits LE don’t need GPS tracking devices they just run your social security number through government database and all your information pops up and I mean everything your job your bank transactions all the way down to your phone records.
I remember a couple years back while I was doing my annual registration a detective came out and asked me “how come you didn’t tell us you been working there for 5 years”
I replied how do you know I worked there for five years he said your social security number.
I remember leaving feeling like I was being punished for something that happened decades ago

Good luck

The 21 day notice is complete BS and unconstitutional. Unless you are rich, a lot of people wait for the cheaper tickets that are often offered very close to the departure date since they need to fill flights and drop the prices. Everybody should have the option to book a short notice flight due to finances.

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