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IN: LGBT proposal still faces debate, but a provision protecting the transgender community is spurring concern

Some fear the ordinance, if approved, could be used as a pretext by sexual offenders falsely claiming transgender identities to enter bathrooms of the opposite sex. …

Concerns like his aren’t lost on Councilman Brian Dickerson. Registered sex offenders, Dickerson worries, “could use this to prey upon future victims,” claiming transgender identities to enter public restrooms of the opposite sex. He doesn’t support the ordinance “in whole or in part in any way.” Full Article

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  1. The Anon

    Wow it must really suck being these people and living in fear and paranoia like they are.

  2. Nicholas Maietta

    I would question the person who thought this was actually a problem.

  3. Q

    That’s strange; I didn’t see any specific cases mentioned where a registered “sex offender” claimed to be trans gendered for the sole purpose of going into a women’s bathroom with ill intent. Maybe I missed it. And then again; perhaps some people in that town have overactive imaginations.

    Really; these people need to stop listening to all the wild claims and lies some people tell.

    • mike t

      I scoff at their ignorance when it stated “Registered sex offenders, Dickerson worries, “could use this to prey upon future victims,”. As if “normal” people would never do something like that, but the concern is only with ‘registrants’. Really?

      • Q

        Well; I’m sure Dickerson isn’t a registered sex offender, but he “could” use his non registrant status “to prey upon victims” in a bathroom (why does it have to be a “women’s” bathroom?) ,even though a sex crime happening under that circumstance is about as likely as someone being struck by lightening. This is just one more instance of some room temperature IQ type pushing a solution looking for a problem. He is just one more marginal public official that is going to save his constituents from the boogeyman, and then go home and touch the neighbors kid.

  4. Harry

    Are they saying there are not or will not be sex offenders among the transgender group?

  5. USA

    Well, let’s be honest. There are a lot of men targeting young boys? So, what’s the difference? California enacted a law allowing transgenders to use the opposite sex’s restrooms? How would you feel about a large male in a dress using the same restroom as your little girl? Uh. Most recently, I visited Northern California and drive through SF. As I came to a stop light, a naked man with an erection crossed the street? My 2 young children where in the car. I told them to get down. As I looked around, multiple males where walking around nude, beating on bongos and it was nuts! They allow nudity in some parts of SF and they where marching to oppose the upcoming ban (restaurants in the area where banning nude people/can you imagine sitting down after a party of nude people just left?). So, I ask you, what’s worst? Banning transgenders or protecting our children?

    • Q

      Yup; Frisco is indeed a weird place. I was there once watching a parade and a bunch of balding and portly middle aged men were dancing down the street almost naked making out!!!! I live outside of Palm Springs and I call that town “Frisco south.”

      I can’t answer your question because it is common knowledge that this whole sex offender thing started on inaccurate and flawed information. But just for the record; I’d vote to ban transgendered from restaurants, because it just don’t sound like it would make for an enjoyable eating experience.

      • Q

        Sorry folks; I meant to say “naked” trans gendered people. In fact, I’d vote to ban any naked person (trans gendered or not!) from a restaurant I regularly ate at. I have no problem with trans gendered people, as I am not, nor do I wish to be the arbiter of anyone’s sex conduct or orientation.

    • steve

      ” it was nuts”….literally

  6. Two states east

    USA, In your post today you refer to transsexuals as “a large man in a dress”. I think you had a bad experience in SanFrancisco, which Bay Area residents simply call “the City” (Where I lived for years). From your descriptions, you were showing your family the Castro District, simply called “the Castro” by SanFranciscans.

    That’s the only place in the City where nudity is openly practiced, which was LEGAL up to Feb.,2013. Then the City outlawed it. First offence, $100, infraction, not criminal. So the Castro residents are arguably UPSET for what they have been doing for YEARS.

    Going further, from your words, there was a protest going on. That tells me exactly where and when you were there: It was Sunday, Feb. 1, 2015. You were at at the intersection of Castro and Market Sts. That’s the SECOND YEAR PROTEST that was being held !

    “Trannies” aren’t “large men in dresses”. I know, because I lived in the same neighborhood with them, and call girls, and dealers, and addicts, and heteros, in the Tenderloin district, in SanFrancisco, California.

    • NPS

      Okay, let me clarify. I am from the Bay Area; more specifically from the San Francisco Peninsula (and I’ve lived in SF for many years before going to God awful OC where the fit hit the shan; I’m back in the Bay Area for good). All of you are really blowing the whole nudity thing way out of proportion in SF. You are also interpreting the laws wrong. While nudity has been outlawed in general, it is allowed for the purpose of protest and during festivals/parades where streets are closed off.

      The interpretation of transgendered is completely wrong. It is not a man in a dress (that is transvestite). It is person identifies strongly with the opposite gender to a point that they are referred to by that identity. The former Bruce Jenner is an example of transgendered.

      And Q! I’m appalled at your comment about your preference to ban transgenders. Why stop there? Why not ban registered citizens? Because that is the exactly what the same mentality against those who we are shredding the U.S. Constitution.

      USA asked what’s worse; banning transgendered or protecting the children. I say a nanny government creating needless laws to protect children is far worse. Leave that to the responsibility of their parents.

      As for the protesting of the the proposed ban, it was NOT in Castro. It was outside City Hall along McAllister St. The protest at Castro was regarding the need to place a barrier between skin and public seating.

      If San Francisco is not your cup of tea, then by all means, stay out.

  7. Two states east

    USA: I apologize to you for my comment that you were showing your family the Castro. Maybe you were just going past City Hall on Van Ness and ran into the spectacle there that NPS mentioned. But the Castro is its own tourist attraction for the heteros to gawk at while driving in there.

    NPS: Doesn’t the City have terrible residency restrictions against Registered Citizens, and that’s why there are only 600 living there? I lived there before I was forced to register.

    Q: Frisco isn’t indeed a wierd place; it’s ECLECTIC ! Bet that was the Gay Pride Parade you saw.

    Me: I’m a straight-white-honkey. But I miss the City….

    • NPS

      Actually, San Francisco is more of a sanctuary city than anything. They don’t enforce the residency restriction because that would leave all of SF unavailable for any registrant. I lived two blocks away from three different schools (elementary, high school, college) and my PO didn’t really care much about it. In fact, she crossed out a lot of the restrictions that the transferring agency (Orange County) required. I never got a home visit, never a phone call unless they needed to cancel our scheduled appointment for a later date. It was very easy. As for the registering officers, they told me to live my life, and they weren’t looking for people like me. They were actually very respectful. Now if I stayed in OC, I’m sure they would’ve done anything possible to try to violate me.

      As for the number of registrants in SF, that number is only those who are on the Megan’s Law website. There are probably more who are not listed (such as myself) that aren’t counted in that number.

      Now as for the nudity, Castro really isn’t the perception that the media would have you believe. In all the years I’ve lived here, I’ve only seen 3 nudists at Castro. I usually see a lot of men walking their dogs and lots of couples attending the film festivals at their historic theatre (which I where I always go).

      If you want to avoid nudity, don’t go to Baker Beach, don’t watch Bay to Breakers, and avoid all street festivals (especially Folsom) because that is the only exception of the public nudity ban.

  8. mike r

    Good comments nps. All that bigotry towards anyone is unacceptible and hypocritical. Cities or counties should be allowed to enact less stringent laws that don’t violate constitutional rights as they see fit but not be allowed to pass laws that violate rights.

  9. Timmr

    Well, with 93% of minor victims knowing their offenders, the safest place for children is in a public restroom full of strangers.

  10. USA

    Oh boy, you guys don’t get it. There is a difference between a transgender or TS. As the article states, some guy could simply claim he is a transgender and use the female restroom? Now, if you had a young daughter and some guy came into the women’s restroom wearing a dress with a beard, would you be okay with that? I was simply conveying that there are worst things out there! What if I had young children and lived in the neighborhood where nudity was allowed? As such, what’s worst, allowing a transgender to use the women’s restroom or a sex offender? Get with it guys. Geez! You clearly don’t have children. I was appalled people where walking around the city with erections fully naked! It’s one thing to be liberal, but you also have to respect families and children as well. In conclusion, if someone decides to alter their sex, that’s their business! Although, I do support family values and they should respect those of us with children as well. They might be in a dress, but they still have a penis! I think of I had any concerns, I would be concerned about a transgender perpetrator assaulting my young daughter! Wake up guys. There is no argument!

    • NPS

      Clearly, YOU still don’t get it. I’m calling you out as a liar. I have seen plenty of nudists around San Francisco (not just in the Castro) and I’ve NEVER seen a single man walking around with an erection. NOT ONCE. It’s quite apparent that you are exaggerating the facts to fit your ignorant statements.

      You’ve also never been around the LGBT community. A man in a dress? That’s your definition of a transgender? That’s a transvestite and they are overwhelmingly heterosexual men who do this in PRIVATE. If a transgender citizen approached you, you wouldn’t know they are one. Believe it or not, there are female to male transgendered (I know a person who is) and they use the men’s room albeit an enclosed stall. Most (if not all) transgendered male to female are still attracted to MEN; transgendered female to male are attracted to WOMEN.

      Whether or not a person has children is IRRELEVANT. You take care of you and your own. Don’t walk into a community and expect them to accommodate you and your family. If you dislike the atmosphere, you have no one to blame but yourself for walking into a community of which you clearly possess a phobia.

  11. USA

    Oh boy, I thought this web site was about being capable of providing your views. NPS, your clearly a very angry person. Furthermore, you must think it’s okay to walk around nude in a public area. Sad. I have something called family values. Nudity in public isn’t appropriate. For the record, the man I saw crossing the cross walk did in fact have an erection! So, if you think gay men parading around in the nude in a city is appropriate, you clearly don’t have children and you have some serious issues. Good luck to you!

  12. Post Op Male to Female

    Okay, guys, slow down a bit. First of all, I am a post-operative transsexual (male to female).

    1) Transgendered is a blanket term used to cover a range of gender identity from crossdressers, pre and post operative male to female (M2F) and female to male (F2M) to those that are questioning, or are in-between. It is used because transvestite has become a bit insulting. There are trans people that have ZERO desire for surgery or living as the “other” gender full time. There are those that are so upset because they were born with male genitalia (or female genitalia) that they know should not be there.

    Just like many prefer “registered citizen” vs. sex offender.

    2) It takes a lot of courage for any transgendered person to start using the bathroom of their new gender. I am speaking from experience. All any transgendered person wants to do is go take care of business and get out. Because of the concern with being arrested, detained, harassed or even attacked, trans people get super paranoid about bathroom use. Also, most trans people that are seeking to transition to full time living in the opposite gender have a carry letter that is signed by their therapist. The carry letter explains that the person is in treatment for gender identity disorder, is signed by the therapist and explains that the person is/may be dressed differently.

    3) Transgender, Transsexual and related terms have to do with gender identity, not sexual orientation. As we in the T community like to say, “stop thinking binary”. It is easier to explain this way:
    a) How are you born physically? Male or Female
    b) how do you feel inside about your gender? Male or Female
    c) to whom are you physically attracted? Male or Female

    Whether I am attracted to a male or a female has nothing to do with my identity. If you were to ask me my sexual orientation, I would say that I am a Lesbian.

    4) Passing. This word is moving out of use. It has been used to describe any transgendered that “passes” in the new gender role. This has turned into a four letter word, as there are many Trans people that do not pass (look convincing) as well as those that do “pass”. Trans people are against this term because it implies privilege or greater success in being convincing in their new gender role. Why? Because it implies that if you DON’T pass, then you are “Less Than.” Passing should not be used as a qualifier for being transgendered. Sadly, it is being used to discriminate against trans people.

    Q: You are basically saying that all transgendered people would be easy to spot in public. There are those that can be spotted in public. There are many that are not noticeable. I am one of the ones that is not noticeable in public. So, in essence, you are discriminating against any Trans person that obviously looks Trans. I have met a lot of trans people, from accountants, former military, a current police sergeant that lives full time, lawyers, etc. Some are easier to spot than others. Does it really matter? I sure hope not, because this is almost like the 50’s and 60’s when black people that looked a lot more like white people tried very hard to fit in as white. We don’t want that for the trans community.

    It really did suck when I first transitioned many years ago. I was afraid, self-conscious and paranoid. I’m over that now. Being paranoid actually made it easier for people to figure me out. I am not trying to hide, that’s not why I did this. I was close to suicidal. The suicide rate for trans people is anywhere from 31% to 50% based on studies. Just keep that in mind. We go through changing ourselves because it is better than the alternative.

    • Timmr

      Thank you for stating what should be obvious to all of us: labels do not the person make.

    • NPS

      Thank you for your contribution to this topic. Though I am not an LGBT person, I do have friends who are. When I hear statements that are uninformed about this community, I tend to stand up for them. But it’s always best to hear it from a person who has first hand knowledge and experience. I, too, have come away more enlightened. Again, thank you.

  13. mike t

    One of the conundrums that I pondered while I was incarcerated in prison for 2 1/2 yrs. was the placement of gay and transgendered in prison with heterosexual men. To me this seemed the same as if they were to make a coed prison for men and women. I saw many inmates carrying on open relationships with one another and thought to myself “It would be nice to have a female companion while I’m locked up in this horrible place.” Where’s the fairness in that?
    Shortly after being transferred from jail to prison (Reception) I was placed in a lock-down facility where inmates are paired up accordingly in small cells. This was a level 1-4 facility. We were only allowed out of our cell for breakfast, dinner, and a shower once or twice a week. On one such incident, when we were blessed with a shower “privilege” I was placed next to a transgendered inmate. She was more nervous than a cat in a room full of rocking chairs. She never took off her shirt, which was covering her homemade bra that was crafted out of a torn up T-shirt, nor removed her boxers. I was just as nervous thinking if I made any sudden moves it might trigger an impulsive reaction and I might get chewed up by the cheap twin blade razor she was clutching, so I just went about my business.
    I couldn’t help empathizing with this individual, who was probably safer in a women’s facility. I don’t know the answer.

    • Timmr

      I suppose the answer is to depopulate the prisons of the non dangerous, so that inmates remaining can have their own space, like the prisons in Europe. That would be more humane, and make prison more like correction and not like it is, torture.

      • j

        Time to repopulate the prisons with those who are blatantly removing constitutional rights from anyone who has completed their sentences and has had punishment heaped upon them by the truckload.

      • mike t

        Yes, in a perfect world we would know who is or isn’t dangerous. But, our system is not perfect and probably never will be. There are psychopaths who are very manipulative and are released to go on and commit more serious or heinous crimes. How good are you at judging character?
        I personally know that I’m not that good at it. When I walk into a new unfamiliar group setting it comes natural to me to look for someone I can Identify with, to walk over to that person and try to spark some small talk that might spark up a conversation or whatever. There are also people in this group, maybe I’m in a jury selection or getting on a bus, and I sense a certain trait about someone’s appearance which repels me. But through attrition we end up getting to know one another as everyone else has left the original ‘group’. Now I go on to find that this individual and I have more in common than the person I had been originally drawn to. An unexplainable quirk of nature. My best judgement has let me down.
        It is truly unfortunate that the psychopaths or criminally insane are put back on the streets and their transgressions become more violent. John Gardner, John Couey, Jesse K. Timmendequas, and Phillip Garrido are a few. Somehow we are associated with these madmen. We are paying for their sins. Imagine how the person that signed their release must feel.
        When I was in middle school (JR. High) there was an abduction of a toddler not more than a mile from my families home in Camarillo, Ca.. She was forced to drink alcohol, raped, tortured in unthinkable ways with a pair of vice grips, and then murdered and disposed of in a canyon twenty-some miles away. Theodore Frank, the person responsible for the atrocity, had been released from Atascadero State Hospital a few weeks before he murdered Amy Sue. He had just dropped off his girlfriend, who oddly enough was a psych-tech at Camarillo State Hospital, prior to the abduction. Not good judgement on her part… Eh?
        Of course, the entire community was up in arms wondering “How could the ‘system’ let this happen?”. I don’t believe it did. Just like Phillip Garrido here was a dangerous sociopath who figured out how to manipulate the “system”. I wish there was a way to forecast a persons propensity to commit an act like this. Unfortunately society’s response is to look for a common denominator, which is anything remotely considered a sexual offense, and chastise the entire population of sex offenders. To Hell with forgiveness! I guess this is how it works.
        So. basically how do we “depopulate the prisons of the non dangerous, so that inmates remaining can have their own space,”?
        The righteous answer is to punish someone according to their behavior, AND STOP punishing everyone according to someone else’ behavior. Maybe Some day.

  14. Post Op Male to Female

    Timmr: thank you. I love your posts on the other discussions.

    NPS: thank you. I am glad I was able to reply.

    Mike T:
    Some states do not segregate trans inmates. However, a post-operative trans inmate/prisoner needs to be housed with those that match the “new” gender. It’s wrong to put a pre-operative M2F in a women’s section, but they are in danger in a male area. I have a friend that has not had surgery yet, but was in jail for a short time because of divorce issues. That caused her a lot of issues, but luckily nothing bad happened to her.

    Trans people of either sort cause housing issues when incarcerated. There is quite a bit of discrimination in the prison system, from denying prescriptions and appropriate medical care. I am not advocating that the prison system pays for surgery, but that transgendered people are treated fairly.

    By the way, the “sex offender in the bathroom” issue is used as a defense tactic whenever restroom equality is brought up. Americans have this huge hangup about gender segregation and bathroom privilege. We should have unisex bathrooms like they do in Europe. It’s a lot easier.

  15. Two states east

    CONGRATULATIONS LGBT. !!! Today SCOTUS decided 5/4 that SAME SEX marriage is NOW the law of the land !! Someday we will take the voyage to SCOTUS too. We need to be REHEARD !!!

  16. Two States east

    NPS: There was something I wanted to ask of you: On one of your visits to the City, could you stop by Mark Leno’s store ? It’s near Market and Van Ness. Maybe call ahead if he’ll be there. Visit to say thank you ?
    Go to Wikipaedia for the backstory first, about him and his partner, and the store.
    I figure you live in “Sammateo” as Herb Caen called it..

    • NPS

      I just got back from the City about 10 minutes ago. I live in San Mateo County, but not San Mateo. I live only 10 miles away from SF, but I’m still registered to vote in SF. I’ll look into Sen. Leno’s shop. Thanks.

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