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NJ: Upholds Lie Detector Tests for Sex Offenders

Paroled sex offenders must submit to lie detector tests as part of the conditions of their release but must be made more clearly aware of their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination, New Jersey’s Supreme Court ruled Monday in rejecting a challenge to the tests. Full Article

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  1. mike r

    so they can invoke their 5 th amendment rights but still have to do it…another useless program to simply harass people…lifetime parole..no way man I would go postal..

    • Timmr

      They miss the point that being subject to the polygraph is a stressful experience that can cause mental anguish, whether you plead the fifth or not. It is both interrogation and thought control technique rolled into one.

  2. Plead the 5th!

    Did they not see the Colorado court ruling on this? Plead the 5th every question!

  3. BOB 751243

    Just goes to show you how STUPID the originator is (I dunno if its NJ or the COURT or USNEWS.COM….)

    a LIE DETECTOR has NOT BEEN Invented !!!! no such item exists !!

    a “POLYGRAPH” is NOT a lie detector !!!!

  4. How charitable

    “The court instructed the state Parole Board to revise its regulations to clarify that offenders can invoke their Fifth Amendment rights without consequence if the answer to any question during the examination process could form the basis of an independent criminal investigation.”

    Boy, I’m glad I can invoke my rights “without consequence.” Gee, thanks!

    –AJ

    • Chris F

      So….

      If they can invoke 5th amendment right without consequence to avoid a question that could get them in trouble, what, exactly is the purpose of the polygraph and how does it protect citizens from those on lifetime supervision?

      If by the court’s own definition of how the polygraph can be applied defeats the entire purpose of using it, then it doesn’t further any legitimate state’s interest and is just unnecessary punishment and expense.

      • Eric Knight

        Exactly. From a “community safety” standpoint, the only reason that these tests exist is strictly for registrants to confess to other crimes. My question is if they are on “community parole for life,” if they refuse to answer any questions, how can they be returned to prison?

        This brings us to the other reason, not mentioned: Who is paying for this? Either the registrants themselves, or if indigent, the taxpayers? BINGO! A consistent, quarterly $200 “fine” for the rest of the registrants’ lives!

        Bottom line: REFUSE to answer any questions (by taking the 5th), and one is complying with the judgment. Of course, nobody will be told that, or threatened in other ways. And in any case, the $800/year fine for life is set in stone.

        • Lovecraft

          There is a guy that used to frequent the sosen forums from georgia who contested that he could plead the 5th on all questions during a lie dectector test a few months ago. He ended up getting violated and is currently serving somewhere around a year. He sacrificed himself to try to put an end to these stupid tests and he claims he finally has a lawyer who thinks they can get him out and get some things changed. He initially tried to cite the colorado case in court, but it didnt seem to hrlp him from wha understand.I dont really understand all the specifics with his case. Where im from a probation/parole violation is only 90 days.

          If you have access you could read or find out more specifics on those forums.

        • j

          Shouldn’t we be able to plead the 5th when registering? Even asking for our address, car license plate etc. we should simply be able to say “I take the 5th”.

          The whole scheme falls apart right there. And that’s just 1 of the many ways it falls apart.

        • Chris F

          The 5th amendment is invoked to prevent saying something that could get you in trouble.

          So no, you don’t have a right to withhold information that is essentially benign.

          Now if the registration officer asks you to list any victims or crimes they don’t know about, then yes.

        • j

          Hmm… ok. But technically though, couldn’t any information you give be used to get you in trouble? I mean, it’s right there in the Miranda warning.

          I mean especially in registering, your address and where you live is specifically what they’re after, and you have to update it if you move, and if you don’t live where you say you live or you don’t update it when you move it is a crime. So in this case it is 100% information that could get you in trouble. They’re practically asking you if you’ve committed a crime.

          I actually don’t have any problem with anyone knowing where I live, anyone’s address is pretty much freely available anyway. I just don’t think I have to make it easy for police to know, let them find out themselves.

          Anyway just thinking out loud.

          And that has finally given me the courage to talk about my own polygraph experience… I took my first polygraph about a month after conviction. I was happily complying with all the requirements and found the guy and made the appointment even before the probation office said anything. I wanted to be on my way to getting out of this whole thing.

          The examiner was an ex cop. We engaged in some light conversation before the test and it was fine. I was a bit nervous but who wouldn’t right. Took the test. And I failed. Don’t remember the particular questions.

          Right away the guy started accusing me of being up to something. He kept saying “so what are you planning to do? Are you planning on molesting some little girl? Are you? You’re up to something, otherwise you wouldn’t have failed.”

          I’m terrified at this point. I can’t believe what’s happening. I tell him that I have no plans or inclinations to do anything and he keeps pushing. “Or is it a little boy? Is that it? you’re going to touch little boys?” I keep saying no, nothing and eventually he just says “Ok well, you’re going to have to think real hard about this. You’re definitely up to something, you’re planning on doing something and it won’t end well for you.” Then it’s over and I leave.

          I was so distraught. I thought it was all over. I thought that he would tell the PO and I fully expected to be met with the police when I got home and they would take me in and I would never see my kids or family again. I was in tears as I was driving home and I thought about just ending it all. I was caught in an online sting and I’ve never done or would do anything to anyone.

          What I did was call the guy who was running the counseling sessions I was going to. I talked to him and he helped me alot. I talked to him on the way home and by the time I got home I was ok.

          It was a horrible experience. Nothing happened after that and eventually I took another polygraph and passed that (with another examiner). I eventually mentioned my experience to my PO and she was sympathetic. She said that it shouldn’t have happened and I could raise a complaint if I wanted to. I just wanted to forget the experience so I didn’t.

          Thanks for listening.

        • Timmr

          I also experienced this good cop bad cop technique. I don’t know anyplace where it is said it is planned that way, but it sure seems incidents like yours have been orchestrated. Polygraphs don’t make sense unless put in the context of the whole probation/therapy ordeal. When you include group confessions, probation rules that isolate, your constant fear that any slip up can send you to prison, and then offering little rewards for correct behavior, it sure looks and smells like mind control:
          http://changingminds.org/techniques/conversion/lifton_brainwashing.htm.

      • Timmr

        I’ve come to the conclusion that It is not for assessing former crimes or even present crimes, but its intention is to serve as a deterrent. It is part of the architecture established by law enforcement to control behavior, based on the late eighteen century theory of the panopticon.
        “The Panopticon is a type of institutional building designed by the English philosopher and social theorist Jeremy Bentham in the late 18th century. The concept of the design is to allow all (pan-) inmates of an institution to be observed (-opticon) by a single watchman without the inmates being able to tell whether or not they are being watched. Although it is physically impossible for the single watchman to observe all cells at once, the fact that the inmates cannot know when they are being watched means that all inmates must act as though they are watched at all times, effectively controlling their own behaviour constantly.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
        The lie detector serves as that virtual central tower, but instead of keeping an eye on bodies, like a surveillance camera, it pretents to look into your thoughts. You are supposed to not be sure if the machine can actually look into your thoughts or not — so you are better inclined not do anything wrong, because your thoughts may reveal your actions or your intentions. That ambiguity is supposed to be its strength in controlling your behavior. But the polygraph is only one wall in the architecture of the modern panopticon, the other structure is the registry itself and the whole world being the tower suposedly keeping an eye on you. Yes, it appears sex crime prevention has gone back 250 years to find answers. The stocks. Branding, anyone?
        The best way to defeat the polygraph would therefore be to see it as the prop it is. But then you still got to pay for the stupid thing and serve a state that at this point you hate.

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