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Everyone Keeps Asking Me, Why Don’t You Take a Vacation?

Life as a U.S. Registered Sex Offender isn’t Just a Posting on the Internet, its One Arbitrary Misstep Away From a Felony. Full Article

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  1. AJ

    Spot on, and saddening, blog posting. As she touches on, the laws make it just like what Uncle Sam says about terrorism: “we have to be right always, they only need to be right once.” We RCs need to be right always, but if wrong once: felony.

    I did notice at least one error in her information. I looked for a way to contact her, but didn’t find one. Anyway, she says, “4- Per law § 9.1-903 Section G Registered Sex Offenders in Virginia have 30 minutes to register in-person (not electronically or over the phone) any changes (additions or deletions)…” Actually, the law says, “either in person or electronically,” though the ridiculous 30-minute window is correct. (Good Lord, are they actively monitoring 24/7, or WTF is with that??!?) At any rate, this goes to show why nobody should trust another layperson’s direction or advice as to what’s what in a State’s SORA laws. Read them yourself, perhaps enlist an attorney, and know them for yourself.

    I also noticed that the name of their registry is “Virginia Sex Offender and Crimes Against Minors Registry.” I wonder if the acronym used is “SOCAM” (as in “soak ’em”) or “SCAM” or “SCAMR” to reflect the truth behind the laws.

    • Mary


      You can always email me at

      Per your comment, the VSP never implemented a process to register electronically. The statute says it’s possible but system doesn’t exist.

      I’ve tried 3 times to get the law rewritten OR for the VSP to set up a dedicated email system that send a receipt, they refuse.
      I- To Fix the unobtainable mandate of “3 days” and “30 minutes”:
       2011- HB1628–Del. Watts
      – (Amended in House Militia, Police and Safety, Virginia State Police Legislative Liaison openly opposed it. Left to die in Appropriations)
       2012- HB416–Del. Watts
      – (“Laid on the table” instead of voting by the House Courts of Justice Criminal Sub-Committee of 8, Virginia State Police Legislative Liaison openly opposed it.)
      II- To Fix the unobtainable mandate of “30 minutes” AND stating that usernames and passwords are NOT required to be registered:
       2016- SB243–Sen. Petersen
      – (Failed to Report 6-9, in Senate Courts of Justice)

      I will keep trying to get the statute to reflect reality.

      • AJ

        Thanks for the reply and info. What a surprise that the State fails to hold up its end of the bargain, yet expects perfection on the other end. That 30-minute window is nothing short of stupid…right up there with the States that require “immediate” notification of changes. Umm, I can’t be in two places at once, and there’s nothing to notify until there’s actually a change.

        • Mary Devoy

          Not only does the state fail to fulfill what the statute says but they have fought me 3 separate times when I’ve gotten legislation sponsored to rectify the problem.

          That’s an intentional trap set by the state of Virginia to catch people under an unreasonable rule.


        • AJ

          Are the courts an option? I know VA can be a pretty byzantine, messed up place when trying to get the Government to work. I’d do my best to find an email address of someone in charge of the program or similar, and then email them a change of email. I’d make sure my email change occurs on a night, weekend and/or holiday, too, just to really nail the case down. It’d be tough for a judge to say you didn’t comply “electronically” as the Statute allows. In fact, you would be in full compliance with the letter of the law at a time when the only option the State allows (in person) is unavailable. Either that, or the State is imposing an unnecessary restriction and burden by limiting your ability to change information outside regular business hours.

          I know that’s much easier said than done, especially when there’s a felony possibly waiting on the other side.

      • Rob

        Mary and All –
        I totally understand your fear about being on the registry and not wanting to take chances, but this is what they want, for you and your husband to live as prisoners in your own home forever. This fear is the most crippling of all, that is why I refuse to live my life in fear. I live in CA and in the past year alone, I have traveled to Germany, Poland, Switzerland, Belgium, France, Austria, Sweden, Norway (all in a 3 week adventure). In the states I have visited Las Vegas (at least 6 times), Reno, New York (multiple times), Colorado, Chicago, San Antonio, Hawaii, and Pennsylvania, and have driven through at least 10 other states. In all that time I told NO ONE, stayed in many hotels, friends houses, and NEVER ONCE did I worry about anything. Yes, I may be more inclined to take chances, but this is how I will live for my remaining days. I will NOT let them stop me from living. We all must do what we are comfortable doing, but no one is stopping anyone from enjoying your life. Only we can let them keep us down.


          Las Vegas is a Big Change you’re taking. NY you have 10 days so likely you were gone before it mattered… but LV has so many cops and a chance encounter… I’ve registered there both times i went. Annoying. but simple process

  2. someone who cares

    This article really nails it. It is so true for many of us, and it takes out the fun of taking a vacation anywhere. Most don’t know all the rules each State, County or City has, and this holds true for Law Enforcement and Lawyers, too. Try asking lawyer or police officer about a State’s, County’s or City’s ordinance, and you will get a lot of head shaking. Nobody knows! One county or city may have presence restrictions, when others don’t. It is hard enough to keep up with your own State, but adding any State you may want to travel to is near impossible. I am sure many have traveled and innocently broken the “law” by just not knowing or being expected to know. Still, one wrong move like running a red light, etc might attract attention and further investigation once it is know that person is an SO. These “laws” are too vague and too diverse depending on where you go, they HAVE to be made illegal once and for all.

  3. David

    If (when?) the Registries are finally ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS, I suspect all of these laws will simply be changed to read “anyone convicted of a sexual offense” rather than the current descriptor “Registered Sex Offender”. It’s my expectation that all these laws will remain in place regardless and forever. In the future, we may not be “Registered”, but I’ll bet the public and lawmakers will continue their relentless efforts to punish us ex post facto. 😠 But wait, I could be wrong …. if there are no more Registries, there will be no need to go to any law enforcement agency or office in order to register! Maybe things can change! 😁 Hope pray work. 👍

    • Timmr

      The registry is only a list, and I don’t think anyone believes the government can’t make lists; the obligations based on the offense are the nasty parts and the registration process is only one of many, like having to update personal and private information, pay fees, presence restrictions, housing, voting and employment bans and the like . Ex post facto is ex post facto is it not?


        It always amazed me no one has made the argument that the state has this info already and they only make us update it as a way to trap us. In NY you have 10 days to update your driver’s license after you move. Therefore they already have my current address. Why do they need a separate form and laws.

  4. New Person

    Remember how the 2003 Smith decision says there are no restrictions to travel? Apparently, there is and it comes with a penalty. Freedom to travel unmolested.

    Seems punitive in result. And, according to Mrs Devoy, the compliance check when they’re abroad also is a probationary/parole trait of being under custody, which is another word for being supervised.

    Is this another “separate, but equal” idea? “Not probation/parole (under custody), but regulatory intent to keep under custody for public safety.”

  5. MatthewLL

    The article is a bit over the top and an exaggeration. I travel around the country for work quite a bit, and yes, I have to be aware of local state laws. Most states allow you grace time to register, so If you are not there long enough, then you are not affected. Yes, a couple of states like Nevada give you only two days, bu that is not the majority. I have also taken my kids to Disneyland and Disney World as a registrant and allowed in.

    I don’t find this type of article helpful for it is not really accurate.

    • Just makes it more interesting

      Most folks, using the registration spreadsheet from this website under the legal tab menu, would find out visiting timelines for registration. The only one I know of that is really bad is AK where you have 24 hrs to do it or else.

    • Mary Devoy


      It sounds like you have a reckless attitude of I’ll do what I want, when I want.

      Not there “long enough”, stay away from Las Vegas then it’s 24 hours.

      If you are in fact traveling from state to state and not checking on the legal obligations that apply that’s your choice and if at some point you get charged, you have yourself to blame.

      And Disney World does NOT allow Sex Offenders to stay in their resorts or visits their parks. Your State’s drivers license either nails you as an RSO when it’s swiped or it doesn’t. If you’ve gotten away with it in the past great but you most likely won’t next time and it’s quite a scene to occur right in front of your kids.


      • Some of us must travel

        Obviously Mary has a choice rather to travel or not, some of us travel out of necessity. While it is true that there is gauntlet of laws that could ensnare one, it normally comes down to the word intent. Like Matt, I travel very frequently because I must. It is not reckless as implied here. Like Matt, I stay as compliant is humanly possible. We can’t let fear overpower our lives. Fear itself can be a choice if we allow it to overpower our lives.

      • Lake County

        Why would you have to swipe your DL at Disney? You buy your tickets at a discount place like AAA, then hand your ticket in at the gate. I’ve never had to show ID with my ticket. Yes, they do ban us from getting a season pass, but that doesn’t effect most of us. And if you want to stay at their resorts, just reserve the room in your spouse’s or friends name.

      • C

        Without trivializing the major negative impact the registry has had on the lives of my wife and kids, not to mention mine, we travel and, as much as I hate that place, frequent Disneyland at least once a year.
        As a small business owner who is not yet comfortable letting someone else mind the proverbial store while away, we do a lot of three day weekends out of town. Not because of the registry, but because I’m building a business and no one will care about my customers as much as I do.
        If I travel to NY or LV, how is anyone A) going to know gone and B) know I’m in NY or LV? With millions of visitors every year, who is going to take the time to run your name and address through Google? My RSO listing doesn’t even come up unless you put my address. Otherwise if you search my name you get my social media profiles.
        The registry is terrible, but to let it run your life is to let it define you.

        • AJ

          Unexpected things happen. Checkpoints happen. Accidents happen. Any sort of thing that brings you into contact with LEOs who may run your ID is what can happen–and they’ll be using the NCIC, not Google. RCs are “low hanging fruit” for LEOs, especially once discovered you’re from out of state. Now the chances you’ve made a a misstep goes up in the LEOs mind. So, who will know you’re there? Nobody, as long as everything runs as expected. But one thing goes haywire, and you’re facing serious issues.

      • jd

        Unless they recently changed the law, Las Vegas is 48 hours.

      • ma.concerned.citizen

        I’ve been to Disney World twice in the past two years. I flew once, and I drove once. Used my name and credit card for the trip (In hindsight I probably should have used my wife’s info, but still…), stayed ON property both times, 6 nights and 8 nights, with zero issues. I was there in December, so that wasn’t that long ago, and I don’t expect it to change when I go next year.

        Am I taking a chance? Probably. But I’m not going to let them end my life. I travel for work. We also vacation in other states for various lengths of time, and I never report to any of them, nor do I ever report when I drive through another state. You may think I’m being reckless, I say I’m living my life.

        I can’t wait for this whole thing to collapse under the weight of itself, so we can be done with these insane draconian “laws”.

  6. Travel can be interesting

    Vacation is not that hard. Keep a low profile and stay clean. Know which hotels/motels are favorable for you to stay in, including not using AirBnB obviously now.

    I have been pulled over four times during travel since I have had to register and only once, thankfully, I was asked if my registration was current. Uh, duh, you have my license and the ability to see the info through your laptop, so you know already whether it is current, especially since it was in the same town I am registered in. The other three times were twice in state and once out of state I was passing through with no questions asked. Say the least, it is nice to have NO identifying marks on the DL for LEOs to note when traveling out of state and in state for that matter.

    BTW, SCOTUS has said LEOs are permitted to be ignorant of the law in the process of them doing their line of duty. Don’t ever assume they know what they are doing by the law. They have a pass already in their favor.

    • Mary Devoy

      “Keep a low profile” that means ignore the law, great advice!

      You’ve registered “only when pulled over” in other states, you’re lucky you weren’t arrested.

      AND you are bragging/posting about intentionally ducking RSO obligations when in other states.

      You too are a…….. I’ll do what I want when I want until I get caught, person.

      Not smart!


      • Joe123


        With all due respect to you: what the Government is doing is “Not Smart”, it is unconstitutional, it is Un-American, and it goes against HUMAN RIGHTS. We need more people like Matthew, and less people with that “yes sir, anything you say, sir” mentality. Nothing good for humanity has come from being obedient. Look into history for proof. Americans have absolutely no concept of Freedom do they? Travel abroad to get a taste of freedom. Over here people are posting on message boards ridiculous things like “how dare you go 5 miles per hours over the speed limit! You are reckless! You will be in Big big trouble by Mom and Dad (the government)”. Please. You are a Human Being. If you aren’t intentionally causing harm then you have little to worry about. How good will it look for the court system to lock people up for failing to learn all 50 States’s offender registration requirements? Hmm not a very good use of tax dollars, and definitely not helping with public safety. Stay under the radar until these asinine Adolf Hitler Laws are ruled unconstitutional. It’s only a matter of time. ‘Common Sense’ is coming back into style across the country it seems so people are beginning to see these laws for what they are. If LEO has a right to ‘pass’ on enforcing the registry laws when they stop you then that is only a great thing. Common sense prevails there too it seems.

      • C

        Keeping a low profile means not attracting unwanted attention by, for example, not being a loud mouthed drunkard, speeding, driving a POS with expired tags, broken tail lights, etc.
        In other words, be a normal person.

      • Timmmy

        If one is convicted in one state, are they also convicted in another state, and required to report to jail in that state also? Then how can registry laws apply to those not convicted in that state they are visiting, traveling through, or moving to? That is what you call violation of the Due Process Clause

        • AJ

          Regulatory vs punitive. If regulatory, a State has wide latitude in its rule making. If punitive, your example would trigger a double jeopardy lawsuit, at minimum. It may well be a Full Faith and Credit issue, not to mention an Equal Protection issue.

          The States have continue to claim the registries and all the hurdles and hoops are only regulatory, but the courts are starting to see through that.

        • Timmmy

          Even if regulatory, a registration affects ones liberty, thus Due Process is required.

        • Substantive Due Process specifically

          Just to be clear for everyone, Substantive Due Process specifically needs to be done. I believe those three words need to be spoken every time someone wants to speak of Due Process. Reiterate those three words to ensure it is understood. Someone will pick it up and run with it when it is heard enough.

        • Timmmy

          Yes, I see what you mean:

          “Substantive due process
          Substantive due process, in United States constitutional law, is a principle allowing courts to protect certain rights deemed fundamental from government interference, even where procedural protections are present or where those rights are not specifically mentioned elsewhere in the constitution. Courts have identified the basis for such protection from the due process clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution, which prohibit the federal and state governments, respectively, from depriving any person of “life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”. Substantive due process demarcates the line between the acts by persons that courts hold are subject to government regulation or legislation and the acts that courts place beyond the reach of governmental interference. Whether the Fifth and/or Fourteenth Amendments were intended to serve this function continues to be a matter of scholarly as well as judicial discussion and dissent.”

  7. T

    Since the IML got passed and registrants are not able to travel internationally, that question will sure create dilemma for registrants that want to travel abroad and they’ll be faced with the stigma of not being able to travel due to effects of the IML. The IML is unconstitutional, does not keep anyone safe, and it endangers lives.

    • ml

      Actually the Angel Watch notices stopped international travel on airlines before the passage of the IML. The green notices said that the traveler were “likely to commit a new crime”. No data or evidence just bull.

  8. mot

    What about murderers, DUI’s, arsonists, those convicted of assualt and battery, bank robbers, burglars, speeders, reckless drivers, etc. who are more of a threat to society then RSO will be. More repeat offenders in those catagories then the RSO community??

  9. What!!?!?

    I travel by car for long weekend vacations in or out of state with my wife and children. I had no idea!!!

  10. James

    I think Mary’s post and frustration is true for many of us.

    Travel is possible, but it is a task, not a joy…and other people don’t understand, not really.

    Some very best friends want to go to Mexico surfing this weekend…I say I can’t go…they say why not?…I explain again even though they know…they argue I’ll be in a car, they probably won’t check at the border…I say I have to give 21 day notice…they say Unbelievable….I say, Yes, but true…they are friends but they seem aggravated by this absolute refusal of mine to commit a felony for their fun.

    On the other hand, Hawaii is 10 days, Utah 10 days, both great destinations, and all of Europe is available. (as is Hong Kong/Macau)

    We put self restrictions on ourselves…barriers in our minds….and this is the most pernicious aspect of the Registration scheme. Even state to state, and this should be certainly unconstitutional under the free movement provisions under the Commerce Clause.

    Well…good luck to everyone.

    Best Wishes, James

  11. Redeemed1

    Thank you for this post. I totally understand the fear of travel. Wife and I have done a little bit of traveling, but only after making sure we are totally following the rules. We have actually planned and cancelled at least 3 vacations over the years due to fear.

    I actually have a couple of questions regarding Virginia itself though. I have been lucky enough to be off the list since 2 years ago in my own state, but realize it is still a minefield in traveling out of state. I still try to follow the time limits and rules to the T, in that I in no way want back on.. Here are my questions…

    1) The ACSOL state spreadsheet states for VA, “Those on “an extended visit” of “30 days or
    more” must register w/in 3 days.” Am I reading that right that one can visit for up to 29 days without registering? That seem way more generous than every other state. We would only visit for max of week if we did.

    2) Does anyone know of any restrictions, or have any experiences with Colonial Williamsburg and Busch Gardens?

    Wife and I are trying to see if this would be feasible. Thanks in advance for any advice.

    • Refer to the VA law referred to

      Pull up VA state law which is referred to in the spreadsheet and see what it is says. Then print it and show it if you are questioned. The law is the law there in VA. Use it for you and don’t let others use it against you.

      As for the other two places, use other sites to buy tickets to them and not the main website. Third party sites will be better prices and save you potential hassle.

  12. Nondescript

    Thank you Mary for articulating what a lot of us quietly endure every time summer rolls around. I too am the spouse of a registrant , and our last vacation was 5 years ago to Europe. Haven’t even entertained the thought since. A vacation is suppose to be a respite from routine, and mostly it is suppose to be fun. How can you enjoy a vacation while trying to dodge all the penalty triggering restrictions? Sometimes I feel fortunate that we live in California, because it’s a large state with diverse landscapes and a lot of places I still haven’t explored, but even then, we have to consider hotels, federal park lands that might consider my (non-disclosed) husband some kind of liability and turn us away.

    I am always asked by work colleagues, friends and family why I don’t take a vacation, and I just try to change the subject. I have been tempted to launch into a lengthy explanation about sex offender laws- but have restrained myself. (One day I might- because this stuff needs to be exposed for the folly that it is)
    Thankfully, my husband and I have so much fun just being together that escaping to a far away place isn’t that important anymore , but if a
    tiered registry relieves him of his status, we will ride the asphalt as far as it takes us without having to worry about minion enforcers on our tail.

    Freedom may be just around the corner.

  13. Tirednotbeaten

    Why would someone with an old conviction that has been set aside for 20 years be afraid to travel? I found out a couple years ago when I was sent home from Mexico. Mary is correct. Too many rules to risk. For now I will only vacation in Hawaii and my own state of California. I pray the laws change.

  14. JoeHillsGhost

    I understand that travel is fraught with danger for registered citizens and their loved ones, but I know people who have traveled, so it is possible. ‘Whether it is worth the risk or not I think depends on the situation and person.

    Some people like to travel around the country and see how many states they can visit in their lifetime. Some have managed to visit all 50 states. I think a fun challenge would be to travel to as many states as possible…to see who can be the first person to become a registered sex offender in all 50 states.

  15. TRUMP is #1

    I could not have put it better than this article but my family and I can definitely 100% relate. Great post!

  16. Harry

    What we have here is Sex Offender Law Abuse. It is time to move SO from villain status to sex offender law abuse victims.

  17. Timmr

    The registry is favored by stupid and brutal people. They would rather you sit at home with nothing to do and nothing to lose, than let you engage in healthy, restorative and legal fun (legal for everyone else that is), which may be just what many need to keep them from slipping into bad habits, and to keep the people they are connected to happy and healthy also. I think we are the only former offenders who are punished for attempting live a good life.

  18. Chris F


    Thank you Mary, for a well written article.

    For those of you that brag about ignoring the laws and just doing what you want to “under the radar”…sorry…I’ve got 2 young kids and the idea of missing 2-10 years of them growing up on the off chance that I get pulled over speeding, or some cop figures out from someone else’s FB post that I wasn’t where I should be, and they prosecute for failure to register, isn’t an option.

    Sure, there are ways around a lot of the problems, but Mary is accurate that if you try to do things the normal way an American should be able to do them, you’ll get banned from places. For AirBNB and Disney, you have to have another family member make the purchase. For what states you go to, yes, we can work around it by going to those with longer periods before registration, but we shouldn’t have to.

    This is the type of situation that is the perfect argument as to why the entire scheme is a Bill of Attainder and violation of Substantive Due Process. Those with nefarious intent will not abide by a law that will toss them in jail for a few years when they plan on committing a crime that could get them up to life in prison. Therefore, the laws do NOTHING toward their intended goals and shouldn’t hold up to any level of scrutiny. There aren’t even examples of how all of these registration requirements have ever been used to solve or prevent a crime. Again, that makes it so they shouldn’t pass “rational basis review”. As long as we don’t get the right case with the right clients in front of SCOTUS, lower judges (even appointed ones) aren’t likely to side with a sex offender when they will have family and friends to deal with. They know the laws are bad, but they’ll continue to think SCOTUS can fall on its sword and do the work to fix things.

    I think the best evidence in a case against the registry for its travel restrictions, would be to outline a fictitious trip from LA to Miami with kids and no second parent. Pick the shortest route, and show city-by-city how impossible it is. At the end of it, explain how when you arrive at Miami you have to stay with your kids in a tent in a warehouse district full of hundreds of sex offenders and if there is a hurricane you can’t go to the hurricane shelter with your children. Explain how if you stay more than 48 hours, you will be registered there for life and even when you get off in your state, you still won’t be eligible for Government assistance with housing and will still be affected by IML because of still being listed in Florida. Now there’s a story that is unfortunately totally accurate.

  19. Californian Travelling to Nj

    This is all to true and sad. I need to travel to New Jersey in a few weeks and I’m still unclear if I have to register. I read the matrix on this site and it states the “10 day rule” but isn’t specific for people that are traveling, it only applies to people moving into the state. Called the local law enforcement in NJ and they were vague and unclear too. This makes me really uncomfortable…I’m not sure what to do?

    Does anyone have experience traveling to New Jersey? Essex County in particular?


      i’ve traveled to NJ from NY semi often a while back. I believe you only have to register there if you are there over 10 days in a row or 30 total for the year. That what the Warren Country Sherrifs office told me a few year ago fwiw

    • Pull NJ law

      Pull up the NJ law online as referenced in the matrix, read it, print it out and take it with you. If you have other doubts, talk with a NJ defense atty in the county you are traveling too and get their take.

  20. Cool RC

    That why I decided to WORK 24/7 on webdesign and hosting business.

  21. Tim


    Let me start off after reading the comments. I agree and disagree. I live in Minnesota and they do not have a 21 day rule. In face, the city police dept. will not sign a form either will the dept. of public safety. Let me explain I do not register at all in the state of Minnesota. My trouble began in Texas and they removed me from the registry and after ten years they put me back on. So I have called two U.S agencies I got some more information on that. I did visit Williamsburg three weeks ago and It was a great place to visit.

    • Timmmy

      I think there will be a challenge in Texas soon enough. due to the state’s Constitution, “Sec. 16. BILLS OF ATTAINDER; EX POST FACTO OR RETROACTIVE LAWS; IMPAIRING OBLIGATION OF CONTRACTS. No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, retroactive law, or any law impairing the obligation of contracts, shall be made.”

      This has been brought in up three other states similar language of retroactive laws in their Constitution with those plaintiffs winning.

      There was someone in Texas with a 1974 Conviction which brought it up before the appeals court, but just outright ignored that challenge with “should have brought it up sooner.”

  22. Harry

    Has anyone challenged these types of travel restrictions?

    • AlexO

      Sort of. I believe they, and most things having to do with registration, were part of the 2003 case. At the time, the court found these restrictions to impose no more a difficulty than any regular person would encounter.

    • TXSO4Life

      Thanks you Mary for speaking up the truth about most of us registrant have to face on a daily basic! I can totally related to how you feel and what you write. And I have to agree with Chris F when he mentioned about the fear of being incarcerated of violating the hundreds of registry laws by the different states, counties, and locals ordinnances and thus being locked away from his children and families. I am too afraid of taking vacation or commuted far away from home for fear of violating the laws and get locked up and separated from my kids and wife. I honestly think the article by Mary should be printed on WaPost or any news papers so the public would know what we are going through on a daily basis!

      • AJ

        ” I honestly think the article by Mary should be printed on WaPost or any news papers so the public would know what we are going through on a daily basis!”

        I’m guessing the majority who read it would say, “good. Serves those pedos right.” I certainly wouldn’t expect any sort of sympathy. There’s a significant segment of the population that will never believe anything other than “all sex offenders are pedophiles,” and “there is no treatment for pedophiles.” Put those together and we’re seen as incurable child molesters.

    • Timmmy

      Actually yes, but it was thrown out due to being called premature as the laws had not taken affect yet.

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