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General News

International Travel 2019

We have updated our main International Travel section. It features:

  1. List of Schengen Nations (allowing entry to registrants);
  2. Resources (including a CA DOJ Travel Notification Form); and
  3. User Submitted Travel Reports.

This post is linked from the Main Menu at the top of the site.

1. The 26 Schengen Nations (which allow registrants to visit)

As an agreement, Schengen was signed among the five out of ten countries of the European Union members back then, on the 14th June 1985. Under the Schengen agreement, travelling from one Schengen country to another is done without any passport and immigration controls or any other formalities previously required.

Austria
Belgium
Czech republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland

France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland

Italy
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg

Malta
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal

Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland

Note: US Citizens are visa exempt when visiting the Schengen area for up to 90 days in a 180 day period (List of Countries, Section B or map).  The European Commission is proposing creating a European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) for such travelers, beginning in 2021 – which may or may not take criminal convictions into account. ETIAS Fact Sheet April 2018July 2018

2. Resources

3. NEW: User Submitted Travel Reports

If you have traveled internationally post-IML we invite you to share your travel experience on the form below. Submissions will be published as a separate post with opportunity for targeted / country specific discussion.

If you have already filled out our previous (unpublished) travel form, please do so again here for publication.

Report your Travel Experience:

International Travel

Personal Info

for follow-up info or answers in comments. Your regular user name or other.
for possible follow-up - not published

Registration Info

Currently Registered *
Listed on Public Website

Travel Info

Entry was *

Visa

Visa Required *
Visa Granted

Advance Notice

Adv. Notice Provided *
Req. by State Law *
how, when, where, etc

Offense Info

Offense Level *
Conv. expunged *
Offense inv Minor *
Passport Identifier *

Comment / Additional Information

Join the discussion

  1. Harry

    This MIL thing should of not got this far. This needs to go back court and put a stop to it.

    • Ron s

      Even more shocking is that a president who prides himself as a Comstituional expert signed it into law with zero hesitation.

    • 🇺🇸 Nicholas Maietta 🇺🇸

      You mean like to a Federal court like the one in Oakland in 2016 where a Judge said that anyone who travels to Thailand is traveling for child sex tourism? Yeah, I actually witnessed a federal judge say this. The collective gasp of disbelief from the people in the courtroom was audible.

      That Judge didn’t care about the facts. It was very clear she was fixated on a certain outcome. And there in lies one of the major problems with the courts. It is political suicide to support the rights of all Americans if those Americans include those previously convicted of a sex offense.

    • Brian

      Unfortunately since the genie is out of the bottle it’s going to be VERY hard to put back in. IMHO the whole IML is being strong-armed into place by our insane government, and even IF it can be backtracked, it’s part of treaties which then would have to be renegotiated.

    • artur

      i just received a notice to turn in my passport and if i need one the i could reapply and pay those fees again my new passport will have a stamp saying that im a registered SO

      • Mike G

        @artur
        I’m not sure if you have a question.
        If your passport has been revoked, it must mean that the State Department wants you to have a stamped passport due to IML.
        You can’t use your current passport to apply for the new one. You will have to go in person with a birth certificate or something similar, and have new passport photos.
        Most RCs have had better success paying extra for expedited processing.
        Some RCs have received new passports without a stamp, but the jury is out as to whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.
        Let us know what your experience is like.

        • aaron

          i received mine in 2018 without a stamp. exactly what does that mean when i leave the country?

        • CR

          @aaron, it means that, at the minimum, you will experience exactly what @artur above describes after you use your passport to travel internationally the first time.

        • TS

          @aaron

          Were you supposed to get a marked passport because a minor was involved in your allegation and conviction? If not, then you won’t get a marked passport.

      • Shaggy

        WHY!!? When was your current one issued? I was a Level One in New York State, and was removed from their registry (verified by my attorney) when I flew here to Hong Kong on the first of April, 2019. I applied for, and received, my new passport in March of this year, and there is no notifying identifier stamped anywhere in mine.

        • NY won’t let go

          Okay this answers my previous question…. you’re a lucky person who was classified as level one.

          I came from out of state and they threw me as a level 2. I moved out of the country and I get to still report to them even though I am not under US jurisdiction, only NY.

          Even the fed registry just has my name and out of country listed but no other information.

  2. C

    Thank you for sharing this valuable information. It’s too bad that I might never see the motherlands of my ancestor’s, but glad that I can visit those nations I’m most interested in seeing. According to the post, however, I’d better do it quickly!

    “The European Commission is proposing creating a European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) for such travelers, beginning in 2021 – which may or may not take criminal convictions into account.”

    • Shaggy

      WHY!!? When was your current one issued? I was a Level One in New York State, and was removed from their registry (verified by my attorney) when I flew here to Hong Kong on the first of April, 2019. I applied for, and received, my new passport in March of this year, and there is no notifying identifier stamped anywhere in mine.

  3. Anonymous

    Rename IML to “Operation Karma”

  4. Ali

    I am planning to travel international while im on the registry and probation in Texas… If get a round trip ticket to Europe which allows entry, then get a separate plane ticket to a country that has a risk of turning people away like Thailand. Do I still have to report SORNA all my travel details?

    I want to know if I am breaking “SORNA” rules if I am already in a foreign country (21 day in advanced) and I decided to travel to different countries in between.

    What would be really helpful is listing all the Notifications systems that the agency uses such as Interpol that is accessible to UK, Europe, Africa unions.

    Once you are in the system, then they already know and can turn you away because of SORNA/DHS/ICE…

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      Ali, “If get a round trip ticket to Europe which allows entry, then get a separate plane ticket to a country that has a risk of turning people away like Thailand. ” Sorry, that won’t do at all. You will be failing to report your travels to Thailand to the U.S. Also, you should count on Thailand turning you away into the bargain. The “Angel Watch” notices are not the whole of it and Thailand will probably be able to see that you have a criminal record as a result of scanning your passport. Even if you were to get into Thailand you would then have a stamp on your passport for a Thailand entry which could then get you into hot water on your return.

      • NY won’t let go

        Thailand doesn’t have access to the US criminal database. The only ones that have that are Japan and the UK I believe through an agreement with the US. So unless Interpol/angel watch put out a notice, or you have a criminal record in Thailand nothing will come up except your biometric data when you scan your passport.

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          And you know that how? INTERPOL has made criminal sex offenses part of their ambit. If immigration in any country that is part of their network (and that includes Thailand) checks that database, then they will have records of such convictions.

        • Relief

          @Notorious DIK: Yes, INTERPOL does seem quite Zealous on sex offenses, however, it still seems they are more a multinational repository on Notices rather then investigative (for Intl travelers). Intl travel is not specifically flagged for all sex offenses against minors, but rather those offenders still currently required to register per USMS, CBP, Angel Watch, etc. whose current status may not be in a ‘criminal database’. (This may be why an active notice needs to be sent, except five eyes?)
          However, the Green Notices do stay ‘active’ within INTERPOL for 5 years and are attached to Name and Passport number, so it is curious, for persons like “NY won’t let go” who had at one point a “Green Notice” but has subsequently traveled to an Asian country known for turning away those with these alerts but was allowed to enter?
          Wonder why that Green Notice did not pop up at Immigration of the traveled country?
          Any ideas?

        • David

          @ Relief and @ Notorious DIK: Last September, I was met by the French police when my plane landed in Paris. I wrote to Interpol to request any documentation they had about me that might explain why this occurred. In my letter to Interpol, I specifically noted the information about me may have been sent as a “green notice” from Angel Watch, U.S.Dept. of Homeland Security or U.S. Dept. of State. Interpol wrote me back stating that I did not appear in any of their records or documentation. They suggested I contact French National Police.

          If you think Interpol has something to do with any travel-related thing that happens to you, I suggest that you contact Interpol and ask.

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          Relief, “Wonder why that Green Notice did not pop up at Immigration of the traveled country? Any ideas?” Yes, simple ineptitude. Their system will still be imperfect and individual immigration officials will sometimes slip up or simply not give a shit. That’s government. We cannot take those instances to the bank with any reasonable expectation of slipping through their nets. INTERPOL is also an investigative organization that spends a disproportionate amount of resources on “sex crimes,” by the way. Each member country has its own INTERPOL unit which works in collaboration with other countries’ INTERPOL units to actively investigate all “sex crimes” and “human trafficking” movement.

          Each country gets to decide which, of their own citizens, is placed on INTERPOL’s international databases. Washington INTERPOL has no problem placing any of us on INTERPOL’s network. They also have choices of which member countries get to see this information but we do not know whether, or if, the U.S. has limited dissemination of this damning information. There are still unknowns. What is not unknown is that they have a very grand plan to halt the movement of “sex offenders” worldwide. Where they are at any particular time in realizing this ambition is not completely known but they are certainly very far along. It is not dependent upon IML, either. They can do all of this without IML’s blessing.

        • MDJJKK

          @Kennerly

          That is exactly right about Interpol.

          If you are an RSO the chances are nearly 100% that you are in the Interpol Database.

          I did the same thing by traveling by land from the US to a country in Central America. Then I hopped on a plane from the vague country in Central America to the vague country in South America.

          I had a connection in yet another country in Central America, prior to arriving to the vague country in South America, where sure enough, I was stopped and questioned by Interpol Agents.

          They allowed me to proceed to South America, and everything worked out.

          That being said:
          Interpol doesn’t need Angel Watch and they can and will stop you somewhere along the way.

        • NY won’t let go

          I was just in Thailand like 6 months ago, had no issue in customs when they scanned my passport. But I also didn’t come from the US since I don’t live there anymore, but I still show up on NY state registry but not the fed registry so I’m not sure how that works.

        • Relief

          @NY wont let go- You went to Thailand 6 months ago, have you traveled there more than once? Have you traveled to any other countries since leaving the USA?
          You still use/travel on your USA passport right?

          Thanks for the info/posting.

        • NY won’t let go

          I’ve traveled quite a bit since moving out of the US only issue I had was SIngapore because they said I don’t look much like my passport picture, but still was let in.

          I’m still on a US passport. Have to renew it soon due to lack of pages left.

          Btw I don’t get the hype about Thailand. It’s expensive to travel in the country. Like my plane ticket there cost less than taking a shuttle to my hotel. It’s pretty boring there too since I don’t drink and not looking for anything illegal. Lotta UFC and muy Thai fights going on but they wanted too much for tickets.

          The mango sticky rice was good though.

        • Relief

          @NY wont let go- That’s helpful information and interesting. Glad to hear at least some of the issues are behind you.
          I follow your postings and also can’t believe NY still has you listed… You said are not listed on the fed “NSOR” registry, right?

          Oh, and did you move to your new country after the IML passed ~Jan 2016? Do you know if you had a “Notice” (Angel watch or Green) sent when you first traveled from the USA to your new country?

          This can be helpful for people who want to know if they become permanently “marked” within the Interpol databases once they no longer need to register by moving, etc.

          Thanks! for the info here and good luck some day getting off NY’s list.

        • NY won’t let go

          On the NSOR it has my name but no other information and no picture besides “outside of country”

          But that’s because the NY Registry still having my name on there.

          This is post IML

          As for notices if they did send one my current country didn’t seem to care, but they aren’t currently on friendly terms with the US.

          I didn’t move to get off the registry, I moved to be with my wife. Hopefully one day I’ll be off of it, but that would just be a bonus as my life here is pretty good even if the pay is a fraction of what can be made working at McDonald’s in the US.

        • John Smith

          @NY won’t let go

          I renewed my passport outside the US due to not having anymore pages left. That was when I got the identifier. Have not lived in the states for years. Have been coming and going from the states for years. The next time I came to the states after renewing my passport, I received a letter from DOS revoking my new passport. I have not been able to get back to my home since.

          I would strongly encourage you to marry someone in your home country and work on getting your residency or nationalization there. Do not wait, do not procrastinate. I did and I would hate to see anyone go through what I am going through. As I’m sure you are aware, your life can change in a instant. Dont let them take away your freedom.

        • NY won’t let go

          @John Smith

          I have a visa where I am at. I have no plans moving back to the US or even visiting as I Have no ties except the NY Registry and a couple of family members who would rather visit me here.

          That is concerning that you received your revocation letter while living outside of the US.

          There was an article on here a few months ago where that happened to another person and they gave him a new unmarked passport after he brought it to court I thought.

          It sucks that you can’t go home. I can’t even imagine going back to the US, just to be homeless, jobless, and die alone because I wouldn’t have anywhere to go and my wife wouldn’t be able to come and live with me because AWA. Pretty sure she could get a green card on her own though through work, but she dislikes the US more than I do 😅

        • Relief

          @John Smith @NY wont let go

          Thanks for the info John Smith –and sorry for these ruthless issues. It seems DOJ, State Dept and Interpol act randomly from the various postings on here. And you can’t even find out the information in advanced to help prepare (or even not travel / return…)

          John, are you currently listed on the federal NSOR? Do you register now or have your info still posted somewhere like ‘NY wont let go’? When you would be “coming and going” to the USA did you re-register? You say you “have not lived in the US for years” so did you completely de-register and move permanently or did you still have some type of US address?

          Have you ever registered in another US State other then conviction state?

          Wish I could offer some help/info, but your case seems surprising and unlike the few others I’ve seen here. Maybe Paul from RTag might have an idea, you could email him.

          NY wont let go, thanks for your info/posting. I think it’s helpful, even encouraging. Glad it’s OK for you so far.
          I hope you have many years left on your passport before renewal just in case.

        • Relief

          @NY wont let go

          Yes, there was a posting a few months ago where a person no longer living in the US was visiting a 3rd country and had his passport revoked leaving him stranded in this 3rd country as he tried to return to his new adopted country. He contested the revocation and it was determined that ~”if you no longer register in the USA” the state dept can not revoke for the identifier/RSO status and he got his (new) passport.

          But notice that John Smith said his passport was revoked AFTER returning to the USA… I am curious to John’s “registration” status at the time he received this letter.

          Maybe the State Dept revoked incorrectly and John could get it back (?)

          This really is like the primitive punishment of lifetime “Banishment” if you can even get out!

        • NY won’t let go

          I’ve got another 5 years left in it but running short on pages and my visa takes 2 of them at a time.

          Was planning to renew my passport next month since I have a lot of stuff coming up and would rather not have to worry about pages

        • John Smith

          @NY won’t let go @Relief

          I had visas as well. I had no more available pages for my new visa. I renewed my passport at a embassy and was given the identifier. Then renewed and received my new visa in the new passport. After that I did not think I was going to have any problems. A few days after I came here I received my notice that my new passport was revoked. I’m guessing someone made a mistake, but who knows. They immediately replaced it for free.

          When i went back I was refused entry and sent back. One of the first things they asked when I looked into it was are you married to a ** citizen or do you have a child by a ** citizen. We procrastinated getting officially married.

          I also was making a fraction of what I was making in the states, but I was happy and had friends, had a life.

          When I originally left I called up the registry and told them I was moving out of the country. They said please put it in writing and good luck. I have only registered in 1 state. My name was still on it but it said I lived in the country that I had told them I lived in. Never checked the fed site. I was not actively registering anywhere. The 2nd criteria in the definition of covered offender for the IML is “currently required to register under the sex offender registration program of any jurisdiction” The angel watch people have a strange view of what that means. They seem to take that as, if you moved back here would you have to register.

          NY won’t let go, do everything you can to become a resident/citizen of your new country. Do not let what has happened to me happen to you. I wish someone had given me that piece of advice 6 months ago. I was totally clueless about all of this. My biggest problem was fighting off mosquitoes…

          Call in for the conference call. The announcement says they will be discussing the IML.

        • NY won’t let go

          @john smith, this is quite concerning. If you don’t mind me asking, what state were you registered in? And how did you receive the revocation letter? Like do you have a US address or something or was it to your foreign address?

          I know one country I can get citizenship in quite fast but I would need about $6000 for the lawyer to do the paperwork. The suit to file to get off of the registry is cheaper, which I will do once I have saved up enough. As for getting citizenship here it can take a lifetime, even if you’re married. I’m on a spouse visa now. Can apply for residency in another few years.

          Again no plans of going to or even visiting the US. He odd thing is on the NY registry it has me and my information there but under jurisdiction it’s empty. So I’m not even sure what I would be considered as technically I don’t have to register in any jurisdiction but NY doesn’t want to take me off their list and still wants me to update them 🤷‍♂️. Somehow they have more power than the Feds I guess

        • Relief

          @John Smith @NY wont let go

          John, here is an ACSOL Posting from Oct 17, 2018 which seems like your situation (3rd paragraph) and may help:

          OVERSEAS REGISTRANT WINS BATTLE WITH ANGEL WATCH CENTER
          ·93 Comments

          A registrant who has lived overseas for more than two years recently won a battle with the Angel Watch Center after the Center falsely notified the State Department that he was currently required to register as a sex offender. As a result of that notification, the registrant’s U.S. passport was revoked because it lacked a “unique identifier”.

          The registrant, who was traveling on business, learned that his passport had been revoked after a letter was sent to the home of a relative where he had previously resided prior to departing the U.S. Because his passport was revoked, the registrant could not return home from the country where he was conducting business.

          The Angel Watch Center’s determination was based upon an incorrect interpretation of a state’s registration laws. In order to correct that determination, a letter was obtained from the state police which clarified that the registrant is not required to register in that state because he had properly notified the state of his move overseas and that he is not a current resident of that state.

          After receipt of the state police letter, the Angel Watch Center notified the State Department of its error and the State Department eventually issued the registrant a new passport without the “unique identifier” at no cost. This process took about six weeks and resulted in the registrant’s inability to return to his family as well as significant hotel and other related costs. The registrant is now reviewing his legal options due to harm caused by the Angel Watch Center’s errors.

          https://all4consolaws.org/2018/10/overseas-registrant-wins-battle-with-angel-watch-center/comment-page-1/#comment-215680

        • John Smith

          @Relief
          The angel watch people have a strange idea of what “currently required to register” means.

          @NY wont let go
          Get on that conference call and ask about it. If you were able to get off NY registry I think you would have a much better chance. I used a family member’s address as my US mailing address. Maybe that was my mistake?? I never saw this coming.

        • NY won’t let go

          the address thing could be a possibility, I don’t have any address in the US so they wouldn’t have anywhere to send a letter 😅

        • PK

          I also think this would be helpful information:

          How did you receive the revocation letter?
          Do you have a US address or was it mailed to your foreign address?

          “I renewed my passport at a embassy and was given the identifier”
          You received a new USA Passport in which Country or Embassy?

          “Then I renewed and received my new visa in the new passport”
          Was this new Visa from your new Home Country?

          “A few days after I came here I received my notice that my new passport was revoked”
          You returned to the USA? How did you receive a notice if you don’t actually live in the USA?

          “They immediately replaced it for free”
          You’re saying that the State Department realized that you had already received a new Passport at the Embassy in your new Home Country?
          And they replaced this newly issued Passport, with another Passport with the Identifier for free?

          “I received a letter from DOS revoking my new passport. I have not been able to get back to my home since.”
          What type of Visa do you have from your new Home Country?
          Hopefully a Marriage Visa?

          I would think the fact that you have supposedly lived in your new Home Country for years with a visa, you would have more of an immigration case within that specific country, as opposed to some other poor RSO who just stumbled into that country for a vacation, and got denied entry.

        • Civil Rights first

          I personally traveled to Thailand twice before without issue. Once was after IML. Then on my 3rd trip to see my 35 year old fiancee I was greeted at the plane exit by authorities who had notice of my arrival and papers saying I might be traveling there to comment more sex offences. And I didn’t even know about IML so I never gave notice that I was traveling because I didn’t know I had to.

      • Shaggy

        Leave the country, then, as soon as you can! Sailing around the world is also an option. Many Ports and Countries never scan your Passport. And if they do, you can claim entry due to catastrophic repairs! They never check.Take a Sailing Course, and go FLY, Little Bird!

    • AJ

      @Ali:
      This is a question many have posed but, to my knowledge, nobody has found an answer. What is the process for someone who truly (versus wink-wink) decides to alter travel while abroad and go to an unlisted destination. For that matter, suppose you lengthen your stay in one of the submitted places and shorten or cancel the other. From the way IML is done, *any* change off the submitted itinerary is a violation. How is that freedom of travel?

      • David

        @ AJ: Because I submit the 21-day notice via email, I have simply emailed information about changes directly to the registering person at the police department. Most recently, I had to do this because I missed my outgoing flight and had to take a later one. I simply emailed the new flight information and received confirmation that it had been received. (In fact, as I recall, the response I received was “That’s fine. No problem.”) Also, just FYI, I respond as broadly to the notification questions as possible. For example, when the form asks for address where I’ll be staying, I simply write “Private residence, Lille, France” or “private apartment, Paris, France”.

        • Hmm

          Were you allowed to remain in France or were you sent back?

      • Shaggy

        Nothing happens! I asked the NYPD’s SOMU Unit that exact question, and I have their answer on video, as I turned on my phone’s video camera before entering their door! They said that the Feds don’t care once you are outside of the country! They also don’t do 21 day notifications. They only allow you to make notifications 3 calendar days before your departure, and I have them on that same recording saying that I could leave that next day IF I wanted!

        • TS

          @Shaggy

          I find it interesting you say “They (NYPD SOMU) only allow you to make notifications 3 calendar days before your departure” because it really means they only ACCEPT notifications 3 calendar days before departure because they certainly aren’t going to stop a person following Fed Law to make a notification 21 days or more in advance, even if they don’t accept it.

          Care to upload the video for all to see?

        • NY won’t let got

          I have to contest this, SOMU had me fill out the Fed forms at least 21 days before i left. I actually let them know 2 months in advance.

          The unit had always been pretty straightforward with me though as they said I should really do it as they didn’t want me to catch a fed case over some piece of paper.

          It may have been different for @shaggy because he was a level 1 and not required to remain on NY’s registry after leaving the country.

          @Shaggy Why is it that you copy and paste your answers though? Most of us (I believe) look at the recent comments section to see if someone replied since sifting through the posts themselves to find it again is often tedious.

          So it looks like you’re just spamming the same answer😅 at least when I look at it.

        • Jay

          Could you please have a private link of the video so that in dire need we can reference that to help any authorities who are unaware or unsure in our traveling assurance

    • Shaggy

      I was told by my lawyer that I only had to notify once your initial itenerary. Once you use up your initial stay Visa (90 days here in Hong Kong) you never have to update any changes to that initial notice. I will never return to the U.S.! Great financial planning can never be overrated! As HK and Europe are the same, in that you can stay there 90 days, I will live in HK for 6 months out of every year, and in Europe the other 6 months! New York is great – they already removed me from their registry, as I have permanently moved overseas!

      • E @ Shaggy

        That’s pretty cool Shaggy. Thanks for sharing! I hope HK stays that way… and Europe for that matter (90 day visa free).

      • NY won’t let go

        @shaggy How did you get them to remove you? I myself am also permanently overseas but they refuse to remove me and still have me update them every 3 years with a photo and any time I move 😑

  5. America's Most Hated

    No one here has any business trying to subvert the reporting requirements for travel by routing through other countries. This is not the 1970s; everyone knows everything. Even Jetblue and American Airlines know I am on the List. Interpol keeps their own records and they know who we are. Maybe you’ll get away with it and enter and have a super time. But CBP is going to have some awfully serious questions about that Thai entry and exit stamp in your passport. Then they are going to call ICE investigators to come down and they will be the ones to take you down to see the US magistrate to book you into US Marshals custody. I’m not saying this to be mean. I just don’t want the Nazis to get their claws into any of us again. Do everything in good faith and even if they try to hang you on some trivial paperwork disagreement, the US Attorney’s Office is not going to want to try to convince a federal judge that you were trying to do anything malicious when you obviously reported everything in good faith. The government is chomping at the bit to screw us all over again and again, so don’t give them the ammo to do it.

    • RegistrantNotAnOffender

      Yeah not worth it, they will assume you are in thailand for trafficking purposes

    • Diminishtheregistry

      As a Canadian rso what chances do you think of me entering the Philippines are? I traveled to HK and Macau with no problem. No green notice
      Wonder if Philippines would accept me if they are not notified by Canada.

  6. David

    @ Relief, @ Notorious DIK and @ America’s Most Hated: Last September, I was met by the French police when my plane landed in Paris. I wrote to Interpol to request any documentation they had about me that might explain why this occurred. In my letter to Interpol, I specifically noted the information about me may have been sent as a “green notice” from Angel Watch, U.S.Dept. of Homeland Security or U.S. Dept. of State. Interpol wrote me back stating that I did not appear in any of their records or documentation. They suggested I contact French National Police.

    If you think Interpol has something to do with any travel-related thing that happens to you, I suggest that you contact Interpol and ask.

    • James

      Hi David. I plan on going to France next year or thereabouts. What happened when you were met by the French police? Did they deny you entry? I’m assuming you did the 21-day advance travel notice to your local PD, correct? Much appreciated.

      • David

        @ James: I was only briefly detained by the French police – probably 15 or 20 minutes at most. (It was informal and no handcuffs were involved.) During this time, they initially seemed confused regarding why they been requested to greet me at the airplane. They settled on asking me standard Customs questions after which I was allowed to continue my vacation unhindered in any way. In fact, they had an officer expedite me through Customs, get my passport stamped, and take me directly to the baggage claim area. (I was a bit chagrined that he didn’t buy me a coffee and flag me down a taxi.)
        I travel to Europe every year and this was the first time I had ever been delayed or questioned. However, the next time I go to Europe, I may encounter a different greeting as I will then be carrying a newly minted “marked” passport. My previous passport was revoked a couple months after returning from my last trip. Nonetheless, I do not anticipate any problems with continuing to visit France and I am preparing for Europe’s forthcoming ETIAS “not-a-visa” visitor’s pass that will be going into effect in 2021.
        🇫🇷 Vive La France! 🇫🇷

        • TS

          @David

          Croissants everywhere are offended you did not want one of them with your flagged down taxi and fresh French coffee purchased by the French people in blue. 🙂

      • Shaggy

        Nothing happens! I asked the NYPD’s SOMU Unit that exact question, and I have their answer on video, as I turned on my phone’s video camera before entering their door! They said that the Feds don’t care once you are outside of the country! They also don’t do 21 day notifications. They only allow you to make notifications 3 calendar days before your departure, and I have them on that same recording saying that I could leave that next day IF I wanted!

        • Bo

          Post it. Also maybe I’ll try to file a foia request or ny’s equivelent to see their policies.

    • America's Most Hated

      Interpol keeps data on all of us which is searchable by all member nations, including at ports of entry by customs inspectors. From the Interpol website: “National police can search our databases in real time as part of their investigations. This can be done via their INTERPOL National Central Bureau, or directly at the frontline, for instance by specialized crime units and border officials.”

      In 2017 I entered Ecuador relatively easily. I was sent to secondary and interviewed as to my purpose of visit and let go after about 15 minutes. Very early the next morning, thrée Interpol agents came to my hotel and interviewed me in the lobby for about 30 minutes more. They were Ecuadorean national police assigned to Interpol. They were discreet and polite and did not discuss my past. But they wanted to know who I planned to meet and where I planned to stay. I had to email the head guy every time I changed hotels. They had Interpol badges and his email was an Interpol address. Interpol shares all of our data, which is already public anyhow and not hard for them to collect.

      In other words, every one is now interconnected. If you have a warrant or unpaid child support or owe taxes or are a person of interest (that’s us) then Interpol likely has a file on you unless the investigating agency is in Podunck Hicksville and doesn’t know any better.

      Also, one time my state did not notify the feds about my travel and CBP pulled me off the plane. I had registered so all I got in punishment from their incompetence was losing a few thousand dollars in tickets, last minute rebookings back home from Miami, lost money from hotel reservations, and renewed thoughts of suicide. But that is another record check we all undergo when we leave the US. Everyone on the plane is crosschecked in the customs TECS database for warrants and reasons we can’t leave the country. Sounds more and more like Nazi Germany doesn’t it? Can’t leave the country…

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      David, “If you think Interpol has something to do with any travel-related thing that happens to you, I suggest that you contact Interpol and ask.”

      We already DO know that INTERPOL has something to do with “sex offender” travel-related issues. That’s not even in question and we don’t need to ask them that. Why they didn’t have (or why they didn’t ADMIT to having) a record of you does not mean that they are not instrumental in this scheme in preventing registrants from traveling. They have already stated that they do and are doing so. This is a MAJOR policy initiative that they undertook years ago.

      I’ve noticed that, from the very beginning of this IML regime, which started happening well before the IML, itself, was enacted but while many of its elements were already in place, that people here took the language of our government regarding the registrant-to-government notification scheme as being the sole means by which foreign countries could learn of our past. This was never the case as there are at least several more ways for this information to be disseminated as I have again-and-again noted on these pages. One of those ways is for our records to live on indefinitely in INTERPOL’s database having been put there by the U.S. government. The same way that CBP knows all about us when we return from our foreign adventures simply by scanning our passports so that they can scrutinize us and our bags can also be plugged-into INTERPOL to make every country checking their database aware when we show up at their border. I’m not sure why this is so difficult to grasp but many here seem still to be struggling with this concept, especially when both the U.S. government and INTERPOL trumpeted these interlinked capabilities years ago. If INTERPOL or individual countries like Thailand should miss one or more of us while we cross borders has more to do with the ineptitude of governments than it does with policies and practices. Also, this is a system being expanded and implemented piecemeal which means that experiences last year may not be the same as this year. That doesn’t mean that they’re not being implemented, it means that this system takes shape over time and towards an inevitably very bad end for us.

  7. Worried In Wisconsin

    My reading of the SORNA guidelines call for us to provide 21 day’s notice including “expected itinerary.”

    That doesn’t read like they’re asking for a detailed itinerary or that it be followed 100%, just that it is the “expected itinerary.” When I have provided the notification in Wisconsin, I was told that only a basic outline of where I’m going and how I’m getting there was required, not a day-by-day accounting.

    The IML says that we are to provide an itinerary and other information as detailed by the Attorney General, but I have no idea where to find any procedure published by the AG which detailed the rules for complying with IML.

    Go figure??? They pass a law requiring us to do something, and then they don’t make the details available regarding when/where/how to do so.

    • TS

      @Worried in WI

      Expected falls in line with “shall” and “will” by USG contracting language as stated by SCOTUS (see FAA case on the two words) which @AJ and me discussed last month. Expected is just that, expected, but not a hard and fast boundary, e.g. you could return early if needed and still be within the law, you could change lodging for whatever reason overseas, or change airlines, etc.

      There was someone here that possibly wanted to cross the border from one Schengen country to another for the day and maybe for the night once they got over there but was not sure if they were going to do it. The concern was do they put it on the submitted itinerary or not. There is a certain amount of latitude with “expected” within reason I would imagine and is left up to the USG alphabet soup to determine if it is an issue on return through US airports.

      However, to go from Europe to Thailand (as @Ali asked) may be a stretch to visit on a whim and could appear it was intended the entire time without being noted on the submitted itinerary while using Europe as a ruse. Of course, if @Ali wants to try it and report here their findings and experiences, I’m sure many would read it with interest. Heck, they may be successful. “But, your honor, I was only expecting to be in Europe and in line with my SORNA notification, but got a wild hair and wanted to see the Thai coast and beach, so I went. It was very much unexpected and spur of the moment.”

    • e

      The purpose of these laws(in my opinion) is not to prevent, monitor, or inform. They are spontaneous ideas that have no basis in reality, therefore have no guidelines to follow. Vague as they are, as soon as they even perceive that a RSO has veered away from them, they will then implement more laws to supercede already rediculous ones. We are left to interpret and hopefully follow what can only be seen as the most arduous of life’s roadblocks.

      • Tuna

        This is a good point, and one that I think is ripe for a challenge. The so-called travel requirements could be attacked as being constitutionally vague. While ACSOL has been somewhat timid in challenging IML, this is one area that could be attacked.

    • Bo

      Excellent. I’ll file a foia request with the ag asking what the policy is. This may take months for an answer but I’ll update along the way.

  8. Illinois Contact

    Has anyone actually been arrested and prosecuted and convicted for violating the IML in one of these insignificant ways — making a side trip to a country not included on the submitted itinerary, for example?

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      “Has anyone actually been arrested and prosecuted and convicted for violating the IML in one of these insignificant ways — making a side trip to a country not included on the submitted itinerary, for example?” Not that we’ve heard of on this forum but that doesn’t mean much. This is the closest thing to being a repository of travel experiences, along with RTAG, that there is and, as such, it is incomplete relying, as it does, on the voluntary reporting of individual experiences. In this, we can rely on neither our government or the media to provide us with what amounts to government policies.

    • NY won’t let go

      Wasn’t there a guy who moved to the Philippines without saying anything and got arrested but ended up winning his case?

  9. e

    I see our main hurdle in getting to where we want to be is that we are attempting to do it legally. I would offer the following:
    going to the dark web, purchasing a passport, and cross the country of choice at a less patrolled border area.
    Millions do this every year without any I.D. and live out their lives comfortably. There are people out there willing to help us, for not that much money. I would post some of my results, but that could compromise my goals. Trust me when I say that there is a path. I only recommend this for those out there that have nothing to lose and no attatchments. Prepare yourself. Learn the language of your chosen location, learn customs. Learn a more low profile trade that will benefit local employers. If my neighbor can rent a home, have a business, and raise a family without ever having legal status, I think it can be done in other countries that, once you’re in, could care less.

    • Eric Knight

      In a word: NO! More specifically, HECK NO! (Change the first two letters starting with “F” or last two letters to “L” for my preferred invective).

      Let’s be clear: It is ONE thing to challenge laws in creative ways, such as traveling to areas not listed on an “expected” itinerary. But it is QUITE ANOTHER to suggest breaking existing laws like forging passports. Remember, one’s DNA and other biometrics are most likely stored, its information globally accessed by LE, and getting caught with a bad passport as an RSO is likely to entail serious hard time, as well as a possible permanent ban on obtaining a legal passport in the future, let alone leaving the country.

      I understand the sentiments and the overwhelmingly unfair and vindictive laws that the government puts out on us, but advocating breaking the law in this manner is not acceptable and will only hurt our efforts.

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      e, there is considerable legal jeopardy in pursuing this. I’m not going to make the argument that it hurts our collective cause since I see that as being an appeal, ultimately, to never take risks or to engage in acts of civil disobedience. What it does do is to take terrible risks with your own liberty, or what is left of it. False passports and using them in travel are punished heavily. We are also not going to know, in real time, of the methods put into place to detect such false documents and the likelihood of being caught. This is a rapidly expanding capability which we will only know of when it is witnessed by someone sharing that information here or in the media. In other words, this is a very dangerous move which you should only take when you are fully cognizant of the risks and willing to take them on board. I would urge anyone not to take this step.

    • Shaggy

      All of what you said is absolutely true! Sailing also works! Those way underpaid Port Customs Officers are beyond thrilled to have an extra hundy to take home to their wives!

  10. Joe123

    These laws CAN and WILL be challenged in court. It is only a matter of time. It was a ruled that the 2012 changes to the laws made the whole scheme Punitive. Also, a recent ruling stated that someone on the registry is in custody.

    So how can the government impede travel with their Punitive law without, at Minimum, Due Process given to each person??

    You CANNOT force people to register travel unless you can PROVE that doing so would be in the best interest of the public to SUCH an extent that it tramples the person’s civil rights.

    Seems like a straight-forward argument and there is enough precedent to take on the challenge.

    RTAG has collected dozens of reports of “free citizens” who have suffered damages due to laws that keep them in custody.

    This is just like the fights of other groups in this country in the last 100 years. The ‘Great’ country of the USA has a long history of hatred against just about any group of people that can be segregated. I can assure you many foreigners would never have moved here if they knew the level of corruption going on in this country. The atrocities are happening in plain sight under the mask of “legality”.

    • Shaggy

      Especially when 95% of the countries who refuse us don’t even have a registry! I have absolutely no problem with not letting their government receive money for refusing me!

  11. Harry

    What is the difference between IML and probation/parole reporting requirements? Parole and probation is considered punishment.

    • Bend Over - Florida Owns Your Ass For Life!

      There is NO difference.

      BOTH limit your freedom of movement and require contact with law enforcement. The are BOTH the same with different names and they are BOTH PUNISHMENT.

      • Harry

        I wonder how long will it take for the legal teams, that supposedly be on our side, to push this fact in court? IML been running for 2-3 years with out even a bump.

        • steve

          I just brought up the same thing. IML reporting is no different then reporting to a probation officer which when you are doing so is considered part of your punishment.

      • anonymouse

        IML is MUCH worse.

        Not informing / getting permission from your Probation / Parole Officer is a parole / probation violation. Not giving the required 21 day notice is a brand new felony with a max punishment of 10 years in prison. Even if the qualifying offense is a misdemeanor.

        The Probation / Parole Officer generates no notice to the destination country. IML does.

        Planning a trip commencing in less than 21 days would involve a conversation with your Parole / Probation Officer. Under IML a trip commencing in less than 21 days is impossible legally.

        Just off the top of my head.

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          anonymouse, “Under IML a trip commencing in less than 21 days is impossible legally.” No, they say that they can do it in less than 21 days in the event of unanticipated travel. You have to tell them that.

        • anonymouse

          @Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly – where does it say that? And who says it? And who do you tell? Thanks.

        • TS

          @anonymouse

          To add to what @NDIK said, you may read here how one may submit notification under 21 days for international travel, https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2011/01/11/2011-505/supplemental-guidelines-for-sex-offender-registration-and-notification where it specifically says “While notice of international travel will generally be required as described above, it is recognized that requiring 21 days advance notice may occasionally be unnecessary or inappropriate. For example, a sex offender may need to travel abroad unexpectedly because of a family or work emergency. Or separate advance notice of intended international trips may be unworkable and pointlessly burdensome for a sex offender who lives in a northern border state and commutes to Canada for work on a daily basis. Jurisdictions that wish to accommodate such situations should include information about their policies or practices in this area in their submissions to the SMART Office and the SMART Office will determine whether they adequately serve SORNA’s international tracking objectives.”

        • Will Allen

          Have to say that each comment that I read makes me want to murder 1 more person who thinks IML is acceptable. Will I do it? Certainly perhaps one day.

          Will it hurt “the cause”? I don’t think so. People aren’t concerned about murders. They are concerned about $EX.

          I think people who support the Registries need to well understand that some people are done with their BS and people must be forced to pay.

  12. Kari

    Hi,

    Ok, to the guy anonymouse, so tell me this. I do not register at I currently live in the Midwest. The state where I currently lived once, has put me back on the registry. They did that within in the last 4 years. I have not had to register in 13 years. Now the big question Do I give a 21-day advance notice? Well the state where I live said we do not follow the federal SORNA. So, therefore, we do not require that and do not notify the U.S. Marshal’s office. Now I spoke to Janice and Paul R. about this issue and they explained, in that case, you would not have to tell anyone. Now one comment was made to fill out the California 21 day advance and tweak it maybe with your state information on it. However, I have not left at all due to this very issue. No one can really give me a better answer and in addition, I contacted the CBP since I live on the border of Canada. I actually went up to there office told them my story and. There answered was well we would still pull in secondary, but more likely would let you go after the interview (interrogation) nothing we could do. I have a letter from my current state says you do not have to register. Maybe that is good enough. Who Knows!

    • texasex

      @Kari . I am in the exact same situation as you, leaving Texas. Have you crossed to Canada? Did they stop you?

  13. texasex

    @Kari . I am in the exact same situation as you, leaving Texas. Have you crossed to Canada? Did they stop you?

  14. David

    @ Will Allen: That’s because “sex!!!” is so titalating 🤩, but murder is rather drab and passé. 😩😵

    • Will Allen

      Exactly right. Which is why I always spell it “$EX”. That combines the money involved in the “$EX offender” witch hunt, along with the freak-out about $EX in general. People living in the U.S. are obsessed with $EX and lose their little minds about it most of the time. Perhaps I ought to start spelling it “$EX!!!”. That is even more of a freak-out. That spelling does get people’s attention.

      There is truly no legitimate or sensible reason to have $EX Offender Registries ($ORs), therapy, or any of that other BS, and not do the same thing for hundreds of other types of crimes. There just isn’t. So given that fact, we know that governments that have $ORs aren’t legitimate. They are criminal regimes committing crimes. They need to be ended.

      Getting off on a tangent, but f*ck all people who support the $ORs. They need to die. If they are so pathetic that they need $ORs, let them have them. I truly don’t give the first f*ck as long as I don’t have to do anything with the $ORs or for them. These probation/parole requirements for people who are not on probation/parole are not acceptable. I’m going to make sure people suffer because of it.

  15. kari

    Hi texasex,

    No I went in to Canada several times before Texas put me back on the registry I left Texas in 2005 Texas transferred me to the Midwest. I was off the registry from 2005 to 2014. During that time yes, I traveled in to Canada several times until Texas. Texas put me back on in 2015. However, I do not have an obligation to register or send Texas any updated information at all.

  16. Warren

    I’m taking a trip to Europe next month for a month with my wife and sent in my 21 day notice for International travel to my reporting agency. Officer calls me and says I need to come in and de-register couple days before travel. When I return, make sure to register again. Is this legit? I travel international maybe 2 times a year and this never came up before. I live in Orange County in California.

    • TS

      @Warren

      It is related to your duration out of the state, not the country, but it is legit and valid. Ask them what the CA law is (or look it up above on top of this page under legal in the matrix) for the duration one can be out of the state before they have to deregister.

    • Anon

      Janice has the standard operating procedures from the orange county sherriff. Nothing in there states to de-register, especially if you are maintaining a residence (domicile) in orange county, although nothing specifically states the sop for the form.

    • ocguy

      De-registering is regulated by PC 290.013:

      290.013. (a) Any person who was last registered at a residence
      address pursuant to the Act who changes his or her residence address,
      whether within the jurisdiction in which he or she is currently
      registered or to a new jurisdiction inside or outside the state,
      shall, in person, within five working days of the move, inform the
      law enforcement agency or agencies with which he or she last
      registered of the move, the new address or transient location, if
      known, and any plans he or she has to return to California.

      Going on vacation, you are NOT changing your residence address. You will have no new address or transient location. You are going on vacation. Even for a month.

      PC 290’s definition of residence is extremely vague (on purpose?). It is one of those “we’ll know it when we see it”. The first real clarification about “your case” you will get is at your trial for failure to register.

      A “residence” is a place / structure where you sleep most nights, collect your mail, use for banking purposes, keep your personal belongings, expect to return to, etc.

      Remember, you are even required to register as a secondary “residence” a place where you “regularly” sleep (and keep some stuff) regardless of the actual days spent there.

      If you de-register from your current residence for a finite vacation (even for a month) but you do NOT move all your stuff out of the house, sell the place / break the lease, have your mail stopped permanently, have no intention of NOT returning etc, – it is my humble and amateur opinion that you are failing to register as required by PC 290! Because it is still your residence, even if you are physically absent for a while.

      In other words the cops are directing you to commit a crime / a felony. That is an outrage and should be documented. Get this in writing and contact Janice.

      My take on this. Bon voyage!

      • Ano

        Yea, it’s worse than that.

        In McCleod, supra, 55 Cal. App. 4th 1205, the court stated that the term “residence,” as used in section 290, was a commonly understood term, without technical meaning, that did not have to be defined by the court. The McCleod court concluded the term was easily understood by persons of common intelligence as connoting “`more than a passing through or presence for a limited visit.’” (55 Cal.App.4th at p. 1218.)”

        In Gonzales, he was convicted for spending days at someone elses house “working”. So, yea. Maybe that’s changed. Idk.

    • AJ

      @Warren:
      You could always be smart with the guy and ask if you’re also required to transfer your Driver’s License for the duration of the trip. Perhaps that will wake up the hamster on the wheel in his head and he’ll get that you’re not changing your primary and permanent residence.

      • Muriel

        If you are registered in FL yes you must go in person to the DMV to register a temporary address. Temporary being more that 3 days-whether in state or out. This is in addition to registering, in person, with the Sheriff of your county for 48 hours or longer.
        No exceptions even for emergency/hospital stays.

        • Will Allen

          Unacceptable. Make them pay every day.

        • AJ

          @Muriel:
          “If you are registered in FL yes you must go in person to the DMV to register a temporary address.”
          —–
          I don’t get what point you’re trying to make. In @Warren’s case, that temporary address would be wherever in Europe. The issue @Warren is having is the CA dope wants him to de-register completely from CA–from his PERMANENT address. Your example doesn’t fit that.

  17. USA

    De register? As the law notes, you give them 21 day notice. That’s it. Unless your moving, no! Telll whomever your talking to that they are retarded! It takes me (I live in the OC) 30 – 40 mins (depending upon traffic) to get to the location where you register. Then, it takes 1-1.5 hours to register? In summary, it’s at least a 2.5-3 hour ordeal each time? In LB, your in and out in 30 mins or less? The people in OC are techs. So, I suggest they get with the program

  18. America's Most Hated

    Does anyone have the contact info for a civil rights attorney? My state is not letting me travel. I have already bought my plane tickets and my hotels and I am about to lose thousands of dollars yet again to these tyrants and I am done. I am suing the state and the US if anyone will take the case. The lawyers on this site won’t help. Anyone know any civil rights lawyers?

    • TS

      @Most hated

      What state do you need one? You could ask the national office too for recommendations.

    • AJ

      @America’s Most Hated:
      ” My state is not letting me travel.”
      —–
      Are you off paper? If so, they have zero say in the matter, as you well know. In truth, this could play into your hand, as it will show active supervision/custody/control due to ML and not your conviction.

      Your State of residence will play a big part in availability of who may help. If in a smaller or rural state, give attorneys in a larger city along the border a try. Heck, maybe even give Avvo a try (though I find that site rather useless and had to school a Maryland lawyer a few months back). If nothing else, do a search for “First Amendment lawyers” and try a few of the results. Also try this PDF: https://oldsite.firstamendmentlawyers.org/bystate.pdf

      Were I you, I would secure legal counsel, *mail* in my registration information, travel, and let the chips fall where they may. If they arrest you, have you attorney at the ready. Again, their active denial of your First Amendment right to travel is a boon in the long run.

    • E @ Most Hated

      Your statement requires clarification. If you are off paper your state cannot permit or deny you travel. You are required to let them know, but that’s not the same as getting permission. So please explain the statement, “My state is not letting me travel.” What State? What are they telling you? And are you off paper? Thanks.

  19. John Smith

    I would encourage everyone having a interest in this topic be on the conference call being held Saturday, April 20 at 10 am Pacific Time. It will include information about the domestic and overseas travel.

    https://all4consolaws.org/2019/04/acsol-phone-meeting-on-april-20/

  20. Manuel

    this is just an up date on my travel to mexico after I deregister from my state (tx) and no longer on the web site I travel 3 weeks ago to Mexico and there were no problems I was once sent back from mexico back in 2015 also between 2015 and 2019 I was able to get a Mexican passport do to the fact that I was born in Mexico and the way I leave the country is by showing my USA passaport and to enter mexico i show my Mexican passport coming back to the state I leave mexico with my Mexican passport and enter USA with us passport this is most easy and hassle free trip ever some of you might want to know why I use my mexican Passport only reason it has more (benefits) **** this is just information**

    • Ali

      Manuel, were you able to petition to de-register after probation? or do I have to wait 10 years on the registry due to federal rules?

  21. America's Most Hated

    I am in Spain! They didn’t even scan my passport. He said “Hola”, took his stamper thing and banged me right in. I haven’t even left the airport and I already love this place!

    • steve

      Congrats! Isn’t that ridiculous we are congratulating someone on being able to travel…Have a good time.

      • TS

        @steve

        Good point. Yes, it is ironically sad, but good, we congratulate a fellow forum member who travels overseas given the potential issues that may happen throughout. If one can do it successfully, then I say pats on the back all around. We should not have to do this but it reminds me of the three who successfully got away out of the 76 that initially executed the great escape from Stalaf Luft III. It provided hope for those left behind just as travel overseas without issue is lauded here. Let’s just hope @AMH can fully enjoy the time and return sans issue other than what was known prior to, e.g. secondary.

  22. Manuel

    I did 6 year probation and then 10 more years registering (thank God I finish )

    • Ali

      thats crazy, so you served full 6 years probation? did you follow everything that was required, therapy, polygraph etc….? did you attempt to get off probation early?

      I am just trying to find some answers like everyone else in Texas.

  23. DAK

    Romania is not on the Shenzen list above, but they are a Shenzen country and on the travel matrix with all “NO’s”

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      It’s “Schengen.” Shenzen is a city in China. By “all no’s” you mean that we are not barred from entering Romania.

      Also, I’d like to see where it is in Schengen’s rulebook that registrants are not barred from entering. I say that it is largely a coincidence that none of the member states do bar us and not because of a top-down policy decision of Schengen. In other words, it’s more of a function of being European than of being a member of Schengen.

  24. Mike G

    We just returned from 10 days in Europe with no significant issues.

    We flew into Munich, Germany. When we got to the customs person, I handed him both our passports. He scanned my passport, and then stared at the screen for what seemed to be a long time. Then he sat my passport aside. I’m thinking, “oh boy – here we go”. He scanned my wife’s passport, then immediately turned it to a blank page and stamped it. Then he turned to another agent and spoke to him for a few moments. After that, he reached over and picked up my passport, opened it to a blank page, and stamped it. He handed me back both passports and said “have a good visit”. He did not look in the back of my passport for my “branded” page.

    We then boarded a plane and flew to Naples, Italy. We subsequently visited Sicily, Malta, Spain, and France by ship. Our passports were never asked for nor looked at by any government person after we left Munich, until we were about to fly out of Munich back to LAX. Of course, our passports were looked at (but not scanned) when we stayed in hotels in Naples & Munich, and when we boarded the ship. I did have my “branded” page tucked into the passport cover, but no one ever tried to look for it.

    My conclusion: There must be something to see on the computer when one of our passports are scanned, but the special “branded” page is not an issue in Europe, at least for now.

    Returning to LAX was the usual hassle, but there was a little different twist this time. When I presented our passports with the slips of paper from the automated kiosk (mine with the X across it) to the person at the customs desk, she scanned my passport, and set it aside. Then she scanned my wife’s, and told her she could leave. After my wife walked a little ways away, the clerk said “Do you have your registration paperwork?”. I thought she meant my copy of my 21-day notice, which we had unfortunately forgotten to bring. So I said, “no, I left everything at home.” So she said, “that is too bad; if you had your card with you, I could clear you right here”. So I said “card? what card is that?”. She said “the card they give you when you register”, and she held her hands up to indicate about a 3″ x 5″ card. I said, “where I register, they don’t give me any kind of card”. So she said, “well, you’ll have to stand over there and wait for an officer to take you to Secondary”. Now, when I first registered about 25 years ago, they would give us this little wallet sized card that they said we were legally required to have with us at all times, and to show it to any law enforcement person we should encounter, but I think that went away over 20 years ago, so I have no idea what this agent was talking about.

    Observation: I was still never asked anything about the 21-day notice required by IML. Also, the customs agent never checked the back of my passport for the “branded mark”.

    Re: Recent discussions about last minute itinerary changes: Based on a copy of our airline flight itinerary (which turned out not to be the most recent one), I booked a hotel for our long layover (16 hours) in Munich. When I printed our boarding passes the night before we left, I was surprised to notice that our layover was actually 1 hour and 45 minutes, which also meant that we arrived in Naples a day early. It was too late to get a refund for our Munich hotel, but I had to book a hotel in Naples for that night. Of course, my 21-day itinerary listed the name and address of the hotel in Munich and obviously had no info on the Naples hotel. If someone were really monitoring the 21-day notices, I suppose they could have given me a hard time, but it was not intentional.

    • TS

      @Mike G

      Welcome home. Nice to hear you had a good trip and enjoyed your time and all went well. Thank you for the detailed review of your travels. Very helpful.

      As for your change in hotels from Germany to Italy, the law says “intended” travel. You intended to stay in Germany upon your arrival due to a long layover, but that was superseded by a shorter one and thus required a night stay in Italy instead. You did not intend the change, it just happened. That is how it is suppose to work as detailed in the 2011 SORNA supplemental guidelines when things change or is less than 21 days notice. The USG even calls that out in the language. You would be in the clear on it. You probably just missed a welcoming party with beverages and yodeling at the hotel.

      • anonymouse

        For the love of god – how many times are you going to do this?

        You are citing a 2011 Guideline for States, Territories and Tribes on how to modify State / Territory and Tribal laws in order to become fully SORNA compliant to excuse non-compliance with a 2016 federal law for individual registrants.

        There is no language in IML allowing for any lesser notice or subsequent changes, that I am aware of. If there is, someone please cite it for my personal edification – because that 2011 Guideline isn’t it.

        Please, everyone do your own research and do not follow this advice above. Up to 10 years in the slammer is a pretty steep price to pay here.

        • TS

          @anonymouse

          For all things mice, why don’t you look at the 2011 guideline online, https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2011/01/11/2011-505/supplemental-guidelines-for-sex-offender-registration-and-notification, and find your way, like a mouse trying to find the cheese at the other end of the maze, to the international travel section
          (II. Interjurisdictional Tracking and Information Sharing
          A. International Travel, para 4) which shows the language to leaving it open to less than 21 days notification exceptions using examples provided by the United States Government (as written by the DoJ and was blessed by the AG and referred back to in 2016 law as AG direction). Also, it is intended travel as stated in travel notification requirements throughout the doc, which could be subjected to change at any time prior to travel and after notification or even during travel. Both of these directions are NOT superseded or amended in the 2016 law; therefore, making them still legal for application to the traveler. In fact, the 2016 law doesn’t supersede 2011 Guidelines or the 2006 AWA but codifies and amends as directed in places.

          Please read Sec 6 here in the 2016 law and tell us where it says no less than 21 days:
          https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/515/text

          What? You’re right, it doesn’t. 21 days is the rule with exceptions, both established earlier.

          However, if you would like to merely refer only to the 2016 law (that says intended travel BTW, which could be subjected to change less than 21 days before travel or even during AND nothing on 21 days at all) and ignore the 2011 federal guidelines and the 2006 law, you are more than welcome to do so.

          I do highly encourage the other fine folks to take all those three laws together as they are meant to be used that way.

          So, for the love of ignorance, learn some civics. Please.

          I yield my time to the others here.

        • TS

          I am going to just leave this right here for @anonymouse, @ocguy, et al, to read further on the original 2008 SORNA Guidelines applicable to 2006 SORNA AWA law and the 2011 Supplemental Guidelines used to augment 2008 Guidelines in addition to the IML Dispatch 2016 which gives an overall view of HR 515 IML and its intended use as a codifying agent for a statutory basis as well as an amending agent for FTR of international travel notification.

          SMART Office Guidelines https://www.smart.gov/guidelines.htm

          2008 SORNA Guidelines https://www.smart.gov/pdfs/final_sornaguidelines.pdf

          2011 SORNA Supplemental Guidelines https://www.smart.gov/pdfs/SORNAFinalSuppGuidelines01_11_11.pdf

          Specifically, “…the Department of Justice is now finalizing the supplemental guidelines, which do the following: (3) Require jurisdictions to have sex offenders report international travel 21 days in advance of such travel and to submit information concerning such travel to the appropriate Federal agencies and databases.”

          Intended travel is the key wording here for travel notification details as long as you show what they request.

          You may also read my post from Apr 24, 2019 about the less than 21 day notification exceptions while reading the provided link there or the link directly above as part of this post.

          As one can read, there is enough flexibility here for travel, either before leaving or during.

          2016 SMART Office Dispatch on IML https://www.smart.gov/pdfs/IML-Dispatch-2016.pdf

          “IML amends the federal failure to register statute, 18 U.S.C. §2250, to cover and criminalize situations where an individual has failed to provide the advance notice of international travel as required by the SORNA amendments above.”

          “For the purposes of substantial implementation, the requirements for international travel notifications, as previously laid out in the Supplemental Guidelines, will continue to govern.”

          For the one person who sends their travel notification into the USG, they won’t accept it and note that in the dispatch with encouragement to send it to your registration office.

          The dispatch also says check with an embassy or consulate of the countries desired to be traveled to for information on entry regarding your particular circumstances. “Denials of entry can be for any reason, including–but not limited to–an individual’s previous criminal history.”

    • NotEasilyOffended

      Thank you for such a detailed update. Congratulations on your trip and so glad to hear a success story. How long were you detained in secondary inspection? Also, where I register I am still given a small slip of paper to keep in my wallet. I request they do not laminate it so that I can fold it up and hide it in a wallet fold.

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      “My conclusion: There must be something to see on the computer when one of our passports are scanned, but the special “branded” page is not an issue in Europe, at least for now.” Yes, this is what I’ve been saying since the beginning. For one thing, before IML started requiring 21 day notifications, we had already been being refused entry into a growing list of countries so there had to be a mechanism for foreign ports of entry to know about us. The mechanism was that the U.S. shared our conviction information with any country with an INTERPOL connection. It lives on their database continuously and is not trip-specific. But almost everyone got completely obsessed with 21 day notifications and assumed that that was the only way countries knew about us, presumably because that is the only thing the government told us about. As if we can trust our government to tell us the extent of its depravities. Naples was a blast back in the 70s and 80s.

  25. someone who cares

    Mike G ~ Thanks for the update, even though, it would have been nice if you could just walk through customs back in your “home” country without having to go through any secondary, just like any other “free” American. As for the travel itinerary, how can that ever be enforced? Plans change all the time, and there just isn’t time to notify anyone 21 days prior. You get to your destination and may have planned to stay in a certain hotel to do a hike the next day. Then, the weather changed, and the hike is out of the question, so you go to Plan B that has not been “cleared” with the authorities. What a bunch of nonsense. Anybody who is off paper should be able to travel freely, any time and anywhere. Welcome “home”.

  26. Mike G

    @TS @NotEasilyOffended @someone who cares

    Thanks for your responses. Not counting maybe 50 times going to Secondary driving out of Mexico (where the most irritating thing was having the car X-rayed with me in it), I have gone to Secondary maybe a dozen times coming into LAX. They usually take my passport and tell me to go stand by myself, usually next to a pillar between the waiting lines and the checkout kiosks, and wait for an officer to come. That wait has been from 10 minutes to 40 minutes and it is a bit embarrassing with everyone looking at you and wondering why you are there. When the officer comes, my experience has been from the officer talking to me for about 5 minutes telling me that he could impound my cell phone and camera if he were so inclined, and then letting me go, to my most recent experiences where the officer escorts me down to the baggage carousel and watches me retrieve my luggage, then has me follow him to Secondary inspection through an empty corridor. In most cases, the officer expresses no interest in my carry-on items, but wants to search through my checked luggage. There is never much of a hurry. Yesterday, the officer left me standing there for about 35 minutes while he took care of “other matters”, before he came and searched my bags. This is pretty typical. Yesterday, our flight landed at 3:00 pm and I stepped out of the airport at just after 5:00 pm. Btw, there are a certain number of people who are directed to Secondary for whatever reasons, but us “special people” are the only ones who have our passports taken and held, and then get escorted by the officer to Secondary.

    Observation: It IS sickening that you can travel to other countries and be treated with some respect, only to be treated like dirt by your own country when you return home. Even in Thailand, when I was denied entry, they were very friendly and apologetic. They said they would have let me in if it weren’t for the letter from “Angel Watch” which they showed me. They even let me wander around the airport by myself, where I ate lunch at Burger King, before heading back to the gate to get my return flight home.

    Recommendation: When flying back to the US from other countries, if you have to make a connecting flight after you land, make sure you allow at least a 3 hour layover to the next flight. I have observed more than one person miss a flight waiting to get through Secondary.

    • TS

      @Mike G

      Impound the camera and phone if they wanted to? On what grounds? Careful there CBP, you better have probable cause and a good reason to impound my stuff.

      They are inspecting electronic devices on return which has drawn a court case (see Apple employee and ACLU in NoCal court). But impound? I’d like to see that happen and a quickly filed suit challenging it. Impound usually means evidence when a law or reg has been infringed upon and can only be retrieved when money is paid, e.g. a car, if they are willing to part with it directly or via court order.

      If the branded passport is marking travelers to have their items possibly impounded upon return based on that alone, beyond just the usual inspection, then someone better be researching that because it shouldn’t fly (no pun intended). The mere threat of it is no better than the other things LE says to get folks to comply with their misdirection.

    • TS

      Does anyone get a name, badge #, business card, supervisor info, etc on CBP interactions at these times of return? By law, and court precedent, they should be able to be recorded in action without issue. If they claim sensitive area and no recording, then they need to have proper protections in place, which they won’t. I realize most want to get through sans issues and get home but this is worst than some overseas countries as noted here.

      • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

        If you try to video them, they’ll arrest you. Even if you just try to use your cell phone they will threaten you as I have found out. They always have signs posted saying that cell phone use in that area of CBP is prohibited. I believe that it also covers cameras.

        • AJ

          “If you try to video them, they’ll arrest you.”
          —–
          Yes, there are plenty of places around this country that, due to National Security claims (note I said “claims”), recording is not permitted. Heck, many courts don’t allow cameras, and they’re supposedly public hearings.

        • TS

          I can see Nat’l Sec claims with CBP given their mission. Since they’re LE too, I was thinking that line specifically in my record comment. They are an exception to that rule I see.

          As for courts, I know SCOTUS was worried about Justices playing to the camera as others are too in Fed system instead of being focused on the job at hand. Audio recordings may be the best anyone gets in court though there’s a lot learned from body language on the stand.

    • AJ

      @Mike G:
      “That wait has been from 10 minutes to 40 minutes and it is a bit embarrassing with everyone looking at you and wondering why you are there.”
      —–
      Make them think you’re undercover CBP. Look closely at their items now and then. Look them up and down. Make *them* embarrassed and nervous. 🙂
      =====

      “Yesterday, the officer left me standing there for about 35 minutes while he took care of “other matters”, before he came and searched my bags.”
      —–
      They do this to see how you act when you may not consider that you’re being watched. Trust me, you’re under surveillance the whole time. This is no different than when LEOs leave a suspect to stew in an interview room. There’s certainly a bit of a “power trip” going on in making you wait, but mostly it’s psychological.

      • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

        They usually kept me waiting for quite some time. There were a couple of two-hour waits in there. This all started approximately 2003. Just after I naively thought that 9/11 might permanently shift their focus towards genuine threats, hyper-vigilant sex offender ape-shit-ism moved into high-gear.

        • Will Allen

          There must be a way to file a formal complaint regarding interactions with cbp. How about everyone file a complaint, every single time? The complaint can be merely if cbp took a mere extra 5 minutes. Anything and everything. Make them take, record, and store 1 million complaints.

          I do think that every single time that anyone does anything regarding the Registries that the person should protest. Do not let anything slide without a challenge. Make the harassers sick of having to hear it every day. If you don’t complain, it implies you are okay with it.

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          Will, they don’t care. They take these complaints about them as a badge of honor. Remember that one response to a complaint some years ago from a Customs official that got widely reprinted? It went something like “We do not apologize and we’re not sorry about how you were treated.” The way they look at how they treat people – which is to say, like shit, is that that is how they are supposed to do their jobs.

        • Will Allen

          Oh, I know they don’t care how they treat people or if anything they do is useful. But the point of complaining would not be to get anything done. I simply think that every time a Registered Person is harassed, he or she should make fun of the people doing it. I think it would be great to have a few million complaints on record that are full of statements about how pathetic and ineffective cbp is. In my experience, it does seem to bother people when they think that people think they are stupid and useless. In LE, it’s gotten to the point where good people don’t want those jobs.

      • Mike G

        @AJ

        “Make them think you’re undercover CBP. Look closely at their items now and then. Look them up and down. Make *them* embarrassed and nervous. ”

        That is a great idea which I will try next time, but I need to figure out a way to distance myself from my carry-on stuff without making them look like a suspicious abandoned bags. 😉

        • PK

          I came through a major airport on the east coast a few weeks ago, coming from overseas.

          The one and only question that was asked of me was: “do you have your travel letter”.

          I responded that I no longer live in the United States, and in fact, I’m not longer even required to register in the U.S.city that I lived in previously.

          He then proceeded to tear my s*** apart, going through documents and reading them, pulling out carefully folded clothes from my suitcase, and leaving all of my belongings in a big mess. I was also ordered to stand several feet away from where this violation of my property took place.

          After about 20 minutes of this nonsense, I was then told that I could go ahead and re-pack my suitcase- like putting my clothes back the way they were packed, was my job or something.

          20 year old misdemeanor- this is a bunch of B.S !!!

        • TS

          @PK

          You were all too kind to inform him you do not reside within the United States boundaries anymore and you don’t have to register where you once lived.

          You’re the second person in this forum who has stated they were asked for a travel letter upon return. A simple reply of “what travel letter?” would be more appropriate. If they reply to you with the letter you are supposedly supposed to have from your registration entity, you could ask them for the chapter and verse of the United States code which states you were to carry this travel letter on you at all times especially upon your return to the continental United States. Since you are no longer residing in this wonderful country, it is hard for you, possibly, to inquire via an elected Congressional official for further information and assistance with this issue.

          The tearing of your suitcase apart and then leaving it for you to repack sounds a lot like law enforcement that tears apart a car on the side of the road during a roadside drug sweep and leaves it for the car driver to repack if they find no drugs during the sweep. I have heard of that in various states around the country in addition to going across the northern border to Canada.

        • PK

          @TS
          “A simple reply of “what travel letter?” would be more appropriate. If they reply to you with the letter you are supposedly supposed to have from your registration entity”

          That’s exactly what I told him. I then added the fact that I no longer reside in the U.S. I was definitely not in the best spirits with the guy, after being on a plane all night with zero sleep.

          @steveo
          Unfortunately, I need to continuously return to the U.S. for medication purposes. That is if I want to continue to live. And these meds aren’t available anywhere else, which makes life even more complicated.

  27. someone who cares

    Just saw this on SOSEN regarding new laws for traveling to Europe. Not sure how that would effect people on the registry, but I have a bad feeling.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/irenelevine/2019/03/08/new-requirements-for-traveling-to-europe-what-u-s-citizens-need-to-know/#5818edc91da4.

    • steve

      This is old news and not going to worry about it until I have to apply for it.

  28. David

    For more about electronic devices searches by CBP, Goggle “Kolsuz” and “Alasaad” legal cases.

    • texas

      ok
      so i received my new renewed passport today, no mention of any marks on last page. it does say to look at page 27, but there is nothing on page 27
      also it is renewed for 10 years
      also they sent back my passport card, which is valid till 2023

      on another note
      i owe the irs more than 50000
      they sent the state department a notice to revoke my passport or not re new it
      they did this, i recently got into a payment plan and the irs sent the state dept a notice to rescind that former notice. they did just that and 5 days later i have my new one.

      go figure

      • NotEasilyOffended

        Was surprised to get my non-marked passport and passport card as well. Unfortunately, when I did attempt to travel my entry was still denied. I hope you have better luck.

        • Mike G

          Where were you denied entry to?

          Thanks.

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          Very interesting! Can you please complete the questionnaire form on this site for foreign travel experiences? Are you still on the registry? Thanks!

        • NotEasilyOffended

          I did complete the survey previously and recounted my experiences on this site. Briefly, it was January of this year and I was traveling to Belize. I received a call from United Airlines 2 days prior to departure that they had been informed by the Belize Govt that I would be denied entry. I am currently registered in California, not on the website, gave my 21-day advance notice to my registering agency. Federal case, poss of CP 15 yrs ago.

        • BlueSkyeSteve

          @NotEasilyOffended: wow, your situation is nearly identical to mine… same federal charge about the same time ago, and recently got a renewed passport that’s unmarked. I guess your experience with Belize answers the question I asked earlier. Interesting that the airline contacted you BEFORE you flew! That saved you some time…. did they refund your money?

          I booked a cruise 2 years ago, and after completing the check-in process, I got a call from the cruise line that they don’t take sex offenders. Did some research and discovered that just two cruise lines banned sex offenders, and I had picked one of them. It was just as well, as it turns out the countries we were going to, probably wouldn’t have let me in anyway. At least the cruise line refunded my tickets, though the travel agency Priceline held on to their “service fees”.

        • Will Allen

          BlueSkyeSteve:

          Are you a sex offender? If you are, I urge you to be accountable, do the right thing, and turn yourself in to law enforcement today.

  29. steveo

    At one level I am really envious of PK being able to live outside of this invisible lifetime prison that they have put me in. Since this country has permanently publicly branded me as a criminal, it would be nice to be able to go someplace else in the world where they would not do that. The thing is that with my means, i could probably do that.

    I probably have about 200K in equity in my house that I could get out if I sold it. I have a consulting business that earns about 50K a year that I would need to close down, but I have an online business that earns about 120K per year that is growing. So technically, I could leave right now, but I would rather go someplace where I could be in the same timezone, because my online business needs support, and people need to be able to get a hold of me on the phone. Over 80% of my business is in the US, and so living in Europe would put me out of touch with most of my customers.

    The problem is that no place south of here will let me in, at least not without some legal work with an immigration attorney from there, which I am thinking about doing, but I think even that can be an issue if the US decides to mess with me.

    Again, I feel like they have put invisible walls around me, and have given me ex-post-facto life imprisonment, only they call it freedom, because I can live and for the most part people think I’m just a normal person, but I have a full head of gray hair, because I have been under this condemnation that there is no redemption or restoration from for over 25 years. I feel like I might just die an early death under it if I don’t get out from under this status of scarlet letter living.

    Typically if you don’t like someone you tell them to get out. You remove them from your presence. You send them away. Well, ok, I will leave. I want to go. I will leave the USA, and go someplace else that wants me….But the USA won’t let me go… They stop me…They poison the well for me anyplace I try to go, and they tell these other countries that I am a SEX OFFENDER. They actually notify them of this so I can’t even set foot there. Not that I am a former sex offender. They don’t tell them that is what I am. They don’t tell them that I agreed to a plea and they changed the deal on me after the fact to brand me for life…

    The thing is that when they maximize the heinousness of what i did, which was a touch, they also magnify the amount that my former victim (who is a family member, and we both love each other, and she has forgiven me) thinks that she is damaged goods. Their unjust dealings with me has been much more of a mind-F on her than it otherwise would have been if they had stuck to the original plea of 10 years probation, and a deferred adjudication.

    • E

      Powerful. Should be a blog post.

    • James I

      Dear Steveo:

      Ain’t that the truth! Speak it brother…

      (I always expected to be out of here, living someplace else, far away….but I am stuck, like crazy glue to somewhere I don’t want to be…I would have to rip off chunks of my flesh to get away…and even then I am not sure I could make it.

      Maybe the better analogy is the coyote in steel bear trap, you can gnaw off your leg to make your escape, but what good is life as a 3 legged animal, provided you don’t bleed to death first?)

      Best Wishes, James I (changing my signature a little to let other James’s talk also….lol)

    • AJ

      @steveo:
      Have you considered having the “victim” write a letter of support for you in a pardon application or some other legal move to set aside the conviction? It would seem it can only help…especially if she details how it is holding *her* down, perhaps even more than it is you. Just a thought.

  30. Steveo

    @E: Thanks, I was feeling simultaneously creative and mad.

    @James I : What they’ve done is put us in a glass cage labeled “EVIL-PERVERT” so they can make us live with our prior sins for life, as they assume our prior victims have to live with being damaged-goods. It’s a generalized bias where they fill in all the blanks of the story of who we are, what we did, and what our victim has to endure with their imaginations. So, their emotion driven conclusions from some other worst-case perpetrator/victim story that they’ve read at some time prior becomes the narrative of every one of our stories.

    @AJ: 1. I wouldn’t want to put her through that. We just don’t talk about any of that stuff anymore, and 2. I don’t think it would go very far in Texas.

    @Mike G: I’m sorry that you’re in that situation. Perhaps you could speak to the Mexican attorneys that RTAG has been working with about a plan, and then change your permanent residence to Mexico so you won’t have to register or notify anyone as you go back and forth.

    • Mike G

      @Steveo

      Thanks for the advice. I will be following the progress of RTAG’s Mexican Attorneys. If I could somehow move from California without them notifying where I go, that would be ideal. My wife retires in 6 weeks, so maybe there will be some progress by then.

      I wonder if anyone has thought of trying to get one of those Mexican Attorneys to come to our Conference on June 14 and do a short seminar on their progress…

      • Relief

        @Mike G – Maybe this could be a solution: Move from California to Europe, like France; Germany. You can easily be in Europe for up to 3 months without a residence visa. Get a 2 or 3 month apartment rental from Homeaway, VRBO, etc. Use this address as your new European address when you legally and properly de-register from your Cal jurisdiction. Then move to Europe where you are not required to register and are not subject to IML.

        A couple months later, you decide to move again to Mexico before your 3 month Europe visa free time expires. No longer being subject to IML / registry means no notice sent, at least as we understand within the definition of IML. I believe you have permanent residency in Mexico now, right? So you wouldn’t need to be limited to a 6 month Mexico tourist visa.

        Maybe an option.

        • PK

          What about Interpol?

        • Relief

          @PK- Uncertain about Interpol. However, “NY won’t let go” has said he’s traveled to several 3rd countries and has never had a problem with Interpol post-move. And this would be a similar case, where NY wont let go moved from USA and no longer needs to give notice for Intl travel to a 3rd country.

          Just saying it may be a possibility.

        • Mike G

          @Relief

          That is a very interesting idea! Thanks for coming up with that. I didn’t know you could stay in Germany or France for that long without a visa.

          A key issue would be how California would handle that. Would they just keep me on their registry and show my Europe address?. If they did allow me to actually de-register from California, would I still show up on the DOJ list as required to register? I would be curious to know what whoever oversees IML (DOJ? ICE? Border Patrol?) uses as it’s database for whether someone has to register. Do you suppose they periodically check all 50 states, or is there a master list (probably DOJ) that they go off of?. The trick would be knowing if I were dropped from that master list before I tried to get to Mexico. If I flew direct to Mexico from Europe, Angel Watch probably wouldn’t send a notice, but my passport would be scanned coming into Mexico and I wouldn’t get in (they would flag me due to my conviction, not whether I was registered). Now if I flew from Europe to the US with the intention of driving into Mexico, where they have never checked passports, I would be okay, but I’m wondering what would show up on the customs computer in LAX or San Diego when they put me in Secondary inspection. I might have to convince them that I really do live in Europe now, but I just happen to be passing through the US to vacation in Mexico, or something like that.

          Anyway, I will give this whole process some serious consideration. Would be nice if US government agencies were more transparent about what they look for regarding us RCs.

        • TS

          @Mike G

          IML describes the law and who does what.

          DOJ is the master USG list keeper, but it is feed by the states, gov’t entities, e.g. DoD, and tribes/territories. ICE and CBP use the list as provided by DOJ.

          Rolfe Survey says CA does not remove you from the registry even if you are removed (see legal tab above with state by state matrix with specs).

        • Relief

          @Mike G, @TS – According to “Tired of this” who posted on this recently and said he was completely removed from the site within days and atty Chance Oberstein, president of ACSOL, says California does remove you from their registry when you move out of state. (The ‘Rolfe’ survey comment refers to visiting registrants from other states who register in Cal temporarily.)

          But even if not, like PK in NY, as long as you ‘are legally no longer required to register’ it appears you would not be subject to file the 21 day travel notice per IML and then you could enter Mexico via road as a legal non-registrant.

          In theory, it seems PK, could travel by road to Mexico on one of his quick return trips to the USA, before he returns overseas.

          You should verify with an attorney.

        • TS

          @relief

          Thanks for the clarification on the survey comment.

          I have also heard the same with removal and no need for 21 day notification from another atty.

      • Relief

        @Mike G- California definitely ‘de-lists’ people from their registry upon proper move out (unlike NY). As long as you have not registered in any other state, you will no longer show up on the NSOR. (Several people here have confirmed this on ACSOL.) The federal NSOR appears to be the national database that corresponds to CBP, etc Travel Notices, as you say ‘Master List’.

        Mexico travelers do not seem to have their passports scanned for convictions (like Japan and Canada do). We know this because many people here have reported that after they are no longer are required to register, they are able to (re) enter into Mexico.

        Not sure about secondary in USA, but I believe it was PK (?) that did get questioned in secondary, but I believe he is still ‘registered’ in NY (forever). PK was able to tell customs he no longer is required to register and was allowed to proceed. (Perhaps have a ‘mailed letter’ to your Europe apartment address or a copy of your ‘final de-register’ papers showing your move.) PK’s post is above from May 2nd.

        I agree, it may be risky to fly direct to Mexico. However, you could possibly also fly to a third country, central america, and then proceed by land like you would in California.

        Your big benefit is you already have Mexican residency; you don’t need to go back and forth. And yes, the 3 month in Europe and getting a temp apartment for a new permanent address is the easy part.

        Of course you need to review everything, but again, just a possible option.

        Good luck!

      • Relief

        @Mike G, @TS – According to “Tired of this” who posted on this recently and atty Chance Oberstein, president of ACSOL, California does remove you from their registry.

        But even if not, like PK, as long as you ‘are legally no longer required to register’ it appears you would not be subject to file the 21 day travel notice and then you could enter Mexico via road as a legal non-registrant.

        In theory, it seems PK, could travel by road to Mexico on one of his quick return trips to the USA, before he returns overseas.

        • Mike G

          @Relief, @TS

          Thank you so much for all the information. It is looking a little more possible with this more recent information.

          I will try to talk to Chance during the conference next month. It would be great if a conference session would address this issue specifically. I’m sure there are many looking for a way out.

          I think I do have an advantage with regard to having permanent residency in Mexico, but any time I leave there, I would have to do it with my US passport. I think I am now eligible to apply for Mexican citizenship (which would gain me a Mexican passport), but unfortunately you have to take a rigorous (or so I’ve been told) citizenship test in Spanish, and my current Spanish ability is no where near that level!

          And yes, PK should be able to just drive into Mexico, and then deal with Secondary on the way out, but he has experience with that!

        • Relief

          @Mike G – Glad this may provide some help. Chance would be a good resource as there are many aspects and details that need to be reviewed. Not sure if you might be a candidate for relief post 2021, but if so, you would not want to ‘move’ since you need to be registered in Cal for a petition filing.

          As for traveling to/from Mexico, yes a US passport may be a problem (all this is uncertain / unknown areas). You could probably fly from Mexico to Europe, but shouldn’t risk flying back. You could do the return to USA route again and then land cross to Mexico. You could even land cross to USA and then fly to Europe. A definite hassle and if you can gain relief post 2021, that’s probably the better option.

          As for others, I think this only works in your case because you already have permanent residency in another foreign country.

          Everything should be reviewed by a lawyer of course.

          Again, good luck.

      • PK

        @Mike G.

        You probably missed my previous post, but I was wondering if we could speak privately via email?

        @Moderator
        Please provide Mike G. My email address.

        TIA

        • Mike G

          @PK

          Sorry, I did miss your previous post. I just now looked back and found it.

          I would be happy to communicate by email. I’m just a tad nervous about posting it in the open, but if the Moderator can give it to you that would be fine, or if you know another way.

          Thanks!

        • AA

          sosen.org has a forum for travel.

      • D

        Tell them you’re moving to Guatemala then fly there. Once you land you no longer need to report to the US

  31. B

    Hello,

    Are there any challenges you know of against IML and passport notifier? I’m sure we’re all tired of this bs but just want to know what we can do to challenge this?

    • e

      You can’t do anything to change it. You can protest, vote, rebel, but it will remain. If you are eligible in time to be removed from registry, then wait until then. After that I suggest moving forward, forget this nightmare ever happened, and live like you never heard of this site, the registry, or the word sex offense. That’s my plan.
      If I get approved for my work visa, I will be clearing my passport identifier from the U.S. consulate in Germany.

      • Will Allen

        Your plan sucks. I don’t plan to lie down and accept whatever big government wants to do to me.

        In fact, I plan to make them pay literally TODAY, this very day, for their crimes against me. I will make them pay tomorrow. Probably will be making them pay a decade from now.

        As long as they keep pushing their crimes, I plan to make them the people who suffer most from it.

    • David

      Well, “B”, it seems to me that the outcome of the Supreme Court’s “Gundy” case may have an impact on IML and “notifiers” being placed on US passports. From my understanding, one of the effects of the administrative decision to make sex offender registration laws retroactive seems to be the marking of US passports.

      • NeedtoKnow

        Moot point now. USSC ruled 5-3 against Gundy. Will have to see if there is anything in the ruling that can give some hope, but tough one…

  32. Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

    INTERPOL is a problem. You may never really know if they list you in their database and you might, as some have, manage to slide into a country without notifications, but this is probably down to inefficiency and ineptitude rather than being a clear signal of policy. Because, under this scenario, you’re not traveling under a different, non-U.S., passport, there is every reason to believe that the U.S. will not yank you off of INTERPOL (which they control for their own citizens). Even if you can manage to stop registering by reason of no longer living in the U.S., you will still be a U.S. citizen, no matter where you live, and one traveling under a U.S. passport (marked or not).

  33. E

    For what it’s worth, I was approved for TSA PreCheck. Didn’t bother with Global Entry as any felonies are excluded. Approval took a little while longer than the standard 3 days but evidently they follow their own rules about old criminal convictions outlined on their site.

    • JM of Wi.

      Congrats on tsa pre- I got it too. It aught to signify US’s fine with our traveling etc. but it really is just a $ maker for gov. It really helps us who are continuously late to the gate. Very little if no impact on international travel.

      • Mike G

        @E @JM of Wi.

        I get TSA PreCheck on most of my flights, but it is hit or miss. I have never applied for anything.
        So, there’s something you can apply for that gives it to you all the time? And they will ignore whether you have to register?
        I’m curious how this works. So if I go on Travelocity or something and buy a ticket, I assume nothing happens there. But when you go print your boarding pass, the airline accesses some database that tells them you get PreCheck?
        I wonder what database they access when I print a boarding pass. I generally always get PreCheck on Delta and American, and last month I got it on Lufthansa.
        Do you think the airlines keep their own database, or is there more than one generalized database that they use?
        I also worry that these databases may also know if you are an RC, which would make it easier to exclude you from flying some time in the future if they feel like it.

        • E

          https://www.tsa.gov/precheck

          I have not received it “by surprise” (as you have) for some time so decided to apply. It does save a lot of time sometimes, but only at US airports.

        • Paul

          In 2017, I applied for TSA Precheck and had literally zero issues at all.

          My background: in 2007, plead no contest to a single, misdemeanor count of CA PC 311.11. Expunged in 2010. No other criminal history prior to or since this conviction. Also, in 2016, moved the heck out of CA and am not required to register where I live.

          The process for obtaining Precheck is super simple and so long as you do not have any convictions listed on their disqualifying list, you should be just fine.

          The process is you create an account online and answer all of the questions when applying. At the end, you select your appointment location and date/time.

          At your appointment, they literally bring up on a screen the questions and your answers from when you applied. They ask if your answers are honest. After that, they do a digital fingerprint scan and you’re on your way out the door. The whole appointment lasted maybe 10-15 minutes.

          For me, exactly 7 days later I received an email from TSA congratulating me and welcoming me Precheck. I logged back into my online account and retrieved my Known Traveler Number.

          That’s it!

        • Paul

          When you purchase airline tickets, you are asked for your Known Traveler Number (KTN). This is the number TSA provides to you after you enroll and are accepted into the program.

          By providing the KTN at the time of purchase, the airline is aware of your status and your boarding pass is marked with the Precheck logo.

          If you have any accounts with airlines, such as the one you create to collect miles and such, there is a field in your profile that related to the KTN. You enter that once and after that, it is saved. Each time you log in and purchase air travel, they automatically pull the KTN from your profile.

        • Mike G

          @E

          Thanks!

        • Mike G

          @Paul

          Thanks for the information!

          “At the end, you select your appointment location and date/time.”

          What kind of locations are available? Local airport? Border Patrol office? FBI office? Just curious if there is going to be a location near me…

        • Paul

          @mikeg

          Most H&R Block’s are signed up to do the processing on behalf of the TSA. While you can certainly select an airport location, I chose a H&R Block.

          Here a little more info on that: https://www.fedscoop.com/tsa-pre-check-services-to-be-offered-at-h-r-block-locations/

        • Mike G

          @Paul

          Great – that helps a lot! Thanks again!

    • AJ

      @E:
      “Didn’t bother with Global Entry as any felonies are excluded.”
      —–
      Could you please share the URL where you found this? I can only find the nebulous “may not qualify” statement and it’s regarding *any* criminal conviction, not just felonies. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least that felons are denied Global Entry due to being something other than low-risk. They seem to deny for all sorts of reasons (https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/business/global-entry-applications-rejected-for-past-brushes-with-law.html).

      Anyway, that all made me think. If I get approved for Global Entry that would then mean the FBI (who does the checks for CBP) has found me to be low risk, right? Well then, shouldn’t that then mean any info sent about me (ex: Green Notices) are false? After all, the low-risk determination would be the only formal risk assessment the Feds have done on me. Hmm…. Heck, even a PreCheck approval means lower, though perhaps not low, risk.

      On another note, Global Entry automatically includes PreCheck and also allows faster access into other countries (see list: https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs/global-entry/international-arrangements). Granted, a most of these won’t let us in anyway but there are one or two where it may be helpful. Were I interested in either of these programs, I would probably risk it and shoot for Global Entry. If nothing else, Global Entry will get you ushered to Secondary all the faster!

      • James I

        @AJ

        FWIW, (probably not much), but I was formally turned down for a Global Entry card, though I still usher through as pre-check.

        The turn down denial letter was pretty brutal….kind of….”are you kidding!?! Never, don’t ever apply again, don’t even think about it {they kindly left off calling me a dog}).”

        Good luck to you however, let us know how it goes.

        Best Wishes, James I

        • E @ James I

          Thanks for this report, James! Interesting to hear you got turned down but they did give you PreCheck in the same process.

        • AJ

          @James I:
          “Good luck to you however, let us know how it goes.”
          —–
          I was using myself as the hypothetical. I have no immediate plans to apply for either program. I suspect the response you got from CBP and the NYT article pretty much say it all.

          @Will Allen: In a move of which I’m sure you approve, back in the early days of TSA when removing shoes and belts were optional, I always opted to keep them on. Every time I was told I “may” be subject to additional screening. Funny thing, “may” turned out to be 100% of the time. I once told one of the TSA flunkies that since they made me get to the airport so far in advance, I may as well spend it with them, clothing intact. They didn’t like that. 🙂

      • E @ AJ

        Hey, I was basing my “no felonies” comment on an article I recall reading but can no longer cite (sorry) with the person in charge of Global Entry, essentially saying “Yeah, if you have a conviction you prob don’t want to waste your money.” True enough that Global Entry gets you PreCheck if successful, but after reading their official “prior convictions MAY exclude” plus that interview and other articles I just made the jump to PreCheck. I would LOVE for someone to go after Global Entry and let us know how it goes!!

        • AJ

          @E:
          “Hey, I was basing my “no felonies” comment on an article I recall reading”
          —–
          No worries. It seems reality is worse than just “no felonies.” From that NYT piece, you’d better not have even considered sampling a grape at the grocery store. As touched on in that story, it’s also pretty disconcerting and unsettling just what and how much info the Feds have on even “regular” citizens who’ve done next to nothing against societal norms.

        • lovewillprevail

          I applied for the global, was rejected.

          I have no conviction but have to register in TX. One of the requirements is you have to be of moral character if I remember correctly.

        • AJ

          @lovewillprevail:
          Thanks for that info regarding Global Entry. It sounds like a waste of $100 unless one has expungement or pardon. What’s curious is that though you have no conviction, the registration requirement is held against you. But from the NYT article, it seems they will bounce people for even extremely minor items.

          On another note, I wonder if the Feds send a Green Notice about you. They sure as h3ll shouldn’t since Green Notices are sent, “[t]o provide warning about a person’s criminal activities, where the person is considered to be a possible threat to public safety.” (https://www.interpol.int/en/How-we-work/Notices/About-Notices) Since you have no conviction, how can the US claim any sort of criminal activity? IIRC, a Green Notice states you’ve done something and are likely to do it again.

          I suspect the Feds also go the “sneaky” route in issuing notices. From the same URL above:
          *****
          Member countries may also request cooperation from each other through another alert mechanism known as a ‘diffusion’. This is less formal than a notice and is circulated directly by an NCB to all or some of our member countries. Diffusions must also comply with INTERPOL’s Constitution and the Rules on the Processing of Data.
          *****
          IOW, they can sent direct notices without going through the mothership. Gee, what a convenient way to avoid oversight and accountability. I’m sure USNCB will be perfectly honest and forthcoming when a FOIA is filed.

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          I stupidly signed up for this a year ago at SFO because the main line was so long. As it turned out, I haven’t had an opportunity to use it since. So that was $100 just to save fifteen minutes or so.

      • E @ AJ

        BTW, love the thinking about approval for PreCheck indicating low risk. Of course, that would assume they are actually worried about terrorism or real risk, as opposed to the truth as indicated by the SMART office name (which TARGETS us).

        In that regard, I love flying through Germany, where even with my marked passport I’ve been using their automated border control kiosks. Scan it, they check your picture, then step through to a border guard who stamps the passport without further scans. Super fast and clearly concerned with current criminal or terror threats, not old convictions. Only available on outbound (from Germany) flights.

        • Mike G

          @E

          I used that same system flying out of Munich last month. It was great – I was thru in only a couple of minutes. Unfortunately, my wife had a hard time. She spent 10 minutes trying to get her passport to scan before someone helped her. I had gone thru first, in case I had some kind of *trouble*, so I couldn’t go back and help her.

  34. steve @mike g

    I’ll be flying into Munich in a couple of weeks for a layover. What can I expect?

  35. Mike G

    @steve

    Here is part of my post from April 24:

    “We flew into Munich, Germany. When we got to the customs person, I handed him both our passports. He scanned my passport, and then stared at the screen for what seemed to be a long time. Then he sat my passport aside. I’m thinking, “oh boy – here we go”. He scanned my wife’s passport, then immediately turned it to a blank page and stamped it. Then he turned to another agent and spoke to him for a few moments. After that, he reached over and picked up my passport, opened it to a blank page, and stamped it. He handed me back both passports and said “have a good visit”. He did not look in the back of my passport for my “branded” page.”

    I don’t know if something would have been different if I had been arriving by myself.

    Hope this helps.

    • Civil Rights first

      I’m assuming you are doing everything else by the books. I mean reporting your planned trip 21 days with your itinerary to the appropriate authorities before your trip.

      • Mike G

        Yes, of course!

        • Civil Rights first

          Thanks for the reply. I haven’t applied for my new one yet nor been told my current one is invalid but I assume it is. I would like to travel but after my last experience where I was met right as I got off the plane by Thai authorities and now blacklisted from there I’m a little apprehensive to try to travel anywhere else.

          Is there any movement on challenging that BS IML?

        • GoYanks

          @MikeG — Hey Mike. Your Royal Caribbean experience caught my eye as that is a trip that I’m supposed to be going on soon. Despite my trip being in a couple weeks, they just shot me a notification and flagged my info for questioning. Are they fairly reasonable when they question ppl or do you think they’re going to be overzealous. My charge primarily deals with an underage girl who lied about her age when I was 19….(happened 6 yrs ago..been off probation for 3 years and kept nose clean since)

        • Mike G

          @Civil Rights first

          Janice said today that ACSOL is closely watching IML, looking for a “Rosa Parks” type person who has been significantly harmed so they can use him (or her) to file a significant lawsuit challenging IML.

          @GoYanks

          Unfortunately, my two cruises with Royal Caribbean were 3 and 4 years ago, and we had no problems. They keep sending us flyers begging us to book another cruise, but we’re afraid to try it now, after what we have heard. We cruised with MSC in April with no problem, even with my new marked passport, and we cruised with Norwegian last year and the year before with no issues.

          Let us know how it turns out with RCL. I suspect that if they actually talk to you, it might go okay. But if they just have a blanket policy with no consideration of the circumstances, you are probably sunk (pun intended).

  36. steve

    Thanks for the repost. Well… I am traveling by myself as I put my family on a different flight so they wouldn’t have to deal with anything. Was Munich a layover for you?

    • E @ steve

      I have been in and out of Munich and Frankfurt multiple times and smooth sailing each time. Please let us know if you experience anything differently.

    • AJ

      @steve:
      Couldn’t you just have bought your ticket on the same flight as a separate transaction? Your family would travel on one PNR, you on another. That way if questioned, both of you could honestly say–and prove via PNRs–who makes up your travel party. Meanwhile, you could then probably even manage to get seats together, if booked quickly in succession.

      • steve

        @AJ PNR? I got my kids their friends. Didn’t want the potential hassle and embarrassment for them.

        • AJ

          @steve:
          A PNR is what’s used for unique identification of a travel folio. Think confirmation code. If you’re not on the same PNR as someone else, it’d be a tough argument to say you’re traveling together. You may be, but it’s tougher to prove.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_name_record

          The camouflage regarding the kids’ friends is understandable and better warrants separate flights.

    • Mike G

      @steve

      We did do a layover in Munich – stayed overnight in a nice modern (relatively cheap) isolated hotel near the airport. The airport is relatively new and is kind of out in the sticks. There was nothing around the hotel, but they did have some food.

      I definitely understand the kids and their friends on a different flight, but I think you would have been okay in this case. I like the idea of handing two passports (me & wife) to the customs people, though I don’t know if it really makes any difference – maybe in a questionable country.

      • steve

        @mike. I agree with you about having a spouse with you. I plan on having their itinerary with me to show I’m meeting them.

  37. Rob

    Has anyone traveled with the identifier on the passport? if so what countries where you allowed into? any issues at hotels that ask to see your passport ?

    • E

      Yes! Tons of info for you in this thread, as well as the thread titled “Survey—International Travel after IML”. Use the Search bar to find them. Happy reading!

      Regarding using the passport at hotels, etc, be sure to get a clear plastic passport cover ($10 for 5 pack on Amazon) and slip the last page with the identifier into the back flap of the cover. Problem solved. Nobody has ever looked twice. I do NOT leave the page tucked in at border control, but do leave the cover on the passport.

    • Mike G

      @Rob

      Since I received my new improved passport a couple of months ago, I have taken 4 international flights, checked into 2 foreign hotels, entered 6 foreign countries, and taken an international cruise. So far, no one has looked at any page in my passport other than the one with my picture, or looking for a blank page to stamp (and I have been watching closely). That includes US Customs (secondary inspection) upon returning to the US. Apparently, those with connections already know my status from their computer screens, so no need to look for anything.

      Of course, that could all change if Angel Watch is reading posts like this, and they decide to spend millions of dollars on a huge worldwide warning campaign telling the countries of the world that they must pay closer attention to US passports. That’s my fear.

  38. Hope?

    Tomorrow could be a HUGE day with Grundy decision. Should have a direct impact on IML and hopefully Janice would move quickly if we get a good decision.
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/06/02/supreme-court-gundy-rapist-227038

  39. Illinois Contact

    Mike G Mind telling us which six foreign countries?

    Anyone travel to Portugal? I know it Schengen and shouldn’t be a problem, but I still worry. Flying nonstop from Newark to Porto.

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      You should be okay. Bacalhau and fado are in your future. Enjoy!

    • Mike G

      @Illinois Contact

      They were all Schengen this trip: Germany, Italy, Malta, Spain, France. I think I counted Sicily forgetting that it is actually also Italy.

  40. Illinois Contact

    Mike G Also, would love to know which cruise line/destination you managed? I know some lines are NG for us. Details would be so appreciated.

    Anyone else have good/bad reports about cruises? My wife I could love to do the Panama Canal (Ft Lauderdale to LA), but it there are many stops in Central America and Mexico. I have heard that you don’t have to go through customs and show passport when leaving the ship for a day stop, you just use your ship ID.

    Alaska is probably out since all ships seem to end in Vancouver.

    • Mike G

      @Illinois Contact

      Okay, well, here is where I get nervous about who monitors this page… Oh what the heck 🙁

      My cruise in April was on MSC cruise lines. It happened to be a brand new ship, 5th largest in the world, and we were on its third sailing. Mediterranean Cruise. Used my special passport with no issues,

      Before the special passport:

      We cruised with NCL twice, the last time a little over a year ago. Mostly Schengen countries, so no passport checks except when we docked in St. Petersburg, Russia. Spent two days there. No issues.

      We cruised Alaska with Carnival Cruise Lines. About three weeks before our departure, I read that someone’s ticket was revoked by Carnival. We sweated out the three weeks, but nothing happened, maybe because we had booked well in advance. We actually entered Canada twice on that cruise. The first time on a train at Skagway we crossed the border, but they wouldn’t let us out of the train while we were in Canada. But the last stop was in Victoria, Canada. I was planning to just stay on the ship out of caution, but when I read that you didn’t need to take your passport, I went ahead and disembarked. They just smiled as we walked in, spend a few hours walking around and taking pictures, and we used our ship card to board again. Note that this cruise left from and returned to Seattle.

      The safest cruise to take is NCL in Hawaii – no passports needed anywhere 🙂

      We cruised Royal Caribbean twice, the last time about 3 years ago. I don’t think we would try Royal Caribbean nor Carnival again from what I’ve heard, but I haven’t read about any recent experiences.

      Hoping this post isn’t being monitored and doesn’t create backlash for future travels.

    • Mike G

      @Illinois Contact

      We, also, are looking at a Panama Canal cruise, this one from Miami, through the canal, ending in Santiago, Chile, with stops in Columbia and Peru. My wife’s theory is that any stop where they wouldn’t let me in, I would just go back to the ship. With luck, they would let me in with just the ship card.
      The only concern is what if they wouldn’t let me into Santiago to get to the airport for the flight back. Wouldn’t be good to be stuck on the ship, not knowing where it was going next! But in your case, if you end in LA, that plan might work!

      • Relief

        @Mike G – No one knows for sure, but be careful on Panama. They seem similar to Costa Rica and may be directly tied into the NCIC database. (Issues long before Angel Watch/ IML)

        There are some old threads on here about Panama where even connecting flights/rejections are similar to the strict UK.

        • Mike G

          @Relief

          Thanks for the Panama info. I was thinking that the cruise ship would just pass through the canal without any interaction with Panama officials, but probably that is naïve of me.

  41. Illinois Contact

    Mike G I think most of the Panama Canal cruises don’t have a port day in Panama. One that we are considering on Holland American Line 17 days Ft. Lauderdale to San Diego cruises in the Canal for three days, but “cruise only.” There are several stops in Mexico on the way up the Pacific Coast, but I am guessing/hoping that there will not be customs those days.

  42. Illinois Contact

    Anyone have any experience with Princess Cruises or Holland American Line? They both have Panama Canal cruises.

  43. Illinois Contact

    Has anyone heard any recent reports about cruises? I am especially interested in NCL Norwegian Cruise Line. Their cruise from Ft. Lauderdale through the Panama Canal to San Francisco. There would be several stops for a shore day in Mexico, Costa Rica and other no-goes, but I understand that you don’t need a passport to disembark, you don’t go through customs, and use your ship IP instead.

    • Warren

      @ Illinois Contact, I have been on both Norwegian and Princess Cruises this year and no problems with either cruise line. With Norwegian, visited Belize, Jamaica, Costa Rica and 2 stops in Mexico with no passport needed. Once back in US (New Orleans, Louisiana), no secondary needed. Cheers.

  44. JM from wi

    Just sent in for my new passport. Sad to part with my passport card. It was nice for hotels and European casinos. As always the USPS and everyone in the system has no clue how to help registrants. Thanks to all who have helped. It is really appreciated.

  45. Bobbie

    Hi everyone. Question I seen that people are being turned away flying into Mexico,is it possible to just walk into Mexico?? Or would you be turned away from there also.

    • Paul

      You can walk in without any issue. Entering Mexico, at least from SD where I have entered from many times, is literally just walking into Mexico.

      If you are planning on staying along the border someplace, for example, Tijuana, you shouldn’t have any issues. But travel beyond that requires you to have a FMM (visitors permit) issued by Mexican authorities. Back in 2013, when I traveled to Cabo, I had issues obtaining mine. They eventually did issue it to me and allowed me to enjoy my vacation. But I was detained by authorities for well over an hour. I do not believe you will be issued one today. But I have walked into TJ numerous times over the years without the need for a FMM and experienced zero issues other than the usual garbage with our own authorities upon re-entry.

      So the answer to your question is it depends on what your intentions are.

      Hope that helps.

      • Bobbie

        Well I’m wishing to go to Cancun and I am looking to enter and just drive there with some friends of mine that’s why I’m wondering been wanting to go there for a long time well wanting to go to any Latin American area but I’ve seen almost no one with a sex offense will be allowed as for the 21 day notice I called the sex offender registry and I was told I need to give 3 days notice so idk what’s going on lol I live in VT

        • TS

          @Bobbie

          21 days notification regardless of what the state says is the rule. Your state may not accept it or will turn you away until the time to do it on their schedule, but you have to give them 21 days with all of the details required and need to keep a record of that attempt for proof to the Feds you did the honest effort.

        • AJ

          @Bobbie:
          As @TS says, you must provide 21-day notification. This is due to the fact that although the State can ignore the Feds’ mandate (courtesy of the 10th Amdt.), you as a citizen have no such immunity. You are required to comply with the combination of Federal (21 days) and State (3 days) laws.

    • Paul

      Also, since authorities now require 21 day notice, even a day trip into TJ requires 21 day notification to avoid a felony.

      • James I

        Hi Bobbie and Paul:

        Maybe it is summer coming up and having missed Tijuana for the past 2 years…but here is a question I’ve recently thought on, since I go down to SD for Diving and whatnot, but there just over the horizon lingers TJ a place of many happy memories….

        1. If I gave my 21 day notice to my local LEA (Los Angeles Area)…is there any way or reason for them to convey this to the Mexican Authorities….it is international travel, but not by plane where I believe most notifications take place…within plane manifests and that context that is highly structured…

        2. Could I do a walk-in without the Mexican Authorities being notified?

        3. Heck, I could give 3 one day notices since I only go over for a half day at most and return to my SD hotel anyway, or this has been my habit…what do I care?

        4. Unless there is a substantial likelihood that my small city passes this on to the US Marshals and then to INTERPOL and back to Mexican Border Agents…and I end up being put on a Mexican blacklist for life when I might be taken off with the implementation of the tiered system…next year? 2001?

        Any smart thoughts from the great minds here would be appreciated.

        Best Wishes, James I

        • PK

          1. If I gave my 21 day notice to my local LEA (Los Angeles Area)…is there any way or reason for them to convey this to the Mexican Authorities….it is international travel, but not by plane where I believe most notifications take place…within plane manifests and that context that is highly structured…
          Yes they will do it.

          2. Could I do a walk-in without the Mexican Authorities being notified?
          No

          3. Heck, I could give 3 one day notices since I only go over for a half day at most and return to my SD hotel anyway, or this has been my habit…what do I care?
          Because you are not going to be able to just walk in.

          4. Unless there is a substantial likelihood that my small city passes this on to the US Marshals and then to INTERPOL and back to Mexican Border Agents…and I end up being put on a Mexican blacklist for life when I might be taken off with the implementation of the tiered system…next year? 2001?
          Never, you will be on there for life, unless you file a Lawsuit against INM in Mexico.

        • James I

          Thanks PK….Really(!)

          Yours was astringent advice, complete and to the point.

          I sometimes get too excited and optimistic when I think I might find some way to sneak between the cracks in this…fence of abuse they construct around us.

          Damn!

          But good advice is good and smart people are smart…and helpful people are just be best in the world.

          Thanks again, (probably for many of us that will read this)

          James I

  46. Illinois Contact

    OK, but if I’m in a non-SORNA state (Illinois) and the local police adamantly refuse to take a travel change of address more than three days before you leave the state, how exactly do I give the 21 days notice? To whom?

    I have run into a dead end in trying to submit the 21-day notice of foreign travel. I asked the Chicago Police officer when I went in for my annual renewal in Feb and he said there is no 21-day requirement in Illinois, that I would simply give the same three days in advance notice of “change of address” when i traveled anywhere, foreign or domestic. The Chicago Police will NOT accept a notice of travel more than three days before leaving home. I don’t want to be pulled off my plane before it departs, but there’s only so far I’m comfortable arguing with a police officer.

    My wife and I are planning a vacation to Portugal in September. We are flying on TAP Air Portugal. Somehow that seems safer than a domestic airline like United. No mark on my passport; I haven’t traveled abroad since that started.

    Has anyone had an actual experience with this? Submitted a 21 day foreign travel notice to the police in Illinois (or other non-SORNA state)? Or, had this rejected?

    The SORNA regulation states that you cannot submit the notice to them directly but must give it to the police in “your jurisdiction” but what if the police won’t take it?

    • CR

      I don’t have any experience with this, but I gather from what I’ve read here that you may need to be able to prove that you at least attempted to give 21-day notice of your international travel plans.

      Could you mail the information required by federal SORNA to your reporting officer via registered mail? Someone will have to sign for it, so you’ll have proof of delivery or attempted delivery. Keep copies of your USPS receipt and a copy of what you sent to the police.

      CYA, even if your local police won’t take it from you in person. And, of course, be sure to comply separately with the 3-day notice that your state requires, as they doubtless won’t acknowledge anything else.

    • TS

      @IL contact

      I understand the difficulty CPD is giving you.

      How are you giving the notification, e.g. mail, in person, email? If you mail it with tracking, etc, make sure it’s received 21 days or more to let them deal with it, e.g. deny, return, etc. Keep it all as proof. Two copies with you, one on a cloud email. You have then satisfied the Fed req. If they send it back with a letter telling you to wait until three days, then there’s your proof. Then give it three days prior.

      If you sent it in now, mail or email, you’d get the answer because you are more than 21 days out and met 21 days Fed req in addition to getting your rejection.

      If you did it in person at 21 days or before, then I don’t think they’d do decline or denied stamp, signature, and date. They’ll just tell you to not come back until three days.

      Verbal direction doesn’t count from them, ever, in this instance. Physical proof only. You have to make the effort to meet the 21 days, unless you have an exception which you don’t. Period. Regardless of CPD action.

    • Zaney

      Not International Travel, but here an example of the pit-falls of (un)timely notifications. Or the need for a time machine… that poor kid. Us poor tax payers. If it saves one child!

      https://ycitynews.com/10790/news/attorney-blames-state-for-miscarriage-of-justice-that-landed-20-year-old-in-prison/

      • TS

        Damn….hope he appeals

        • TS

          Actually, this guy should appeal to the OH governor since they have the power to do something for him since he did follow the law as best he could given the actions.

    • AJ

      @Illinois Contact:
      I would mail two copies to whatever point-of-contact there is, whether that’s CPD or Cook County SO or ILSP. The two letters will be exactly the same document, except one is sent via Certified Mail, the other via First Class Mail. The header of both pieces should state just that:

      “Sent via FIRST CLASS and CERTIFIED mail, Certified Mail Number [#####]”

      where [#####] is the actual numbers from the label/sticker you already have gotten from the USPS. (You want to be able to tie the document to the USPS records, so having the number on the letter does that.) The reason for sending them both is 1) the recipient can simply refuse to sign for or pick up the certified piece, resulting in it being sent back to you; however 2) First Class mail is considered delivered unless returned, so they will have no choice but to have it. The result of this dual mailing is that it shows effort and intent on your part, and can also show resistance or deception on the other’s part. In truth, you don’t really care if they have or accept it, as your only obligation is to SUBMIT it. This will prove you complied. Personally, I’d also take pictures every step of the way, documenting my “assembling” them for mailing.

      Document, document, document is the name of the game, especially when you have everything to lose in the game, and the other side has nothing to lose.

    • Paul

      It is a felony at the federal level.

      To be honest with you, if your state refuses, I would pay an attorney to draft the letter including all of the required details and have that letter delivered and signed for.

      It will be hard for the feds to argue you did not provide notice if your attorney is standing there with the letter he/she prepared and had delivered.

      And, for the few hundred dollars that will cost, it beats a federal felony and is far cheaper than trying to beat that charge.

    • TS

      @IL Contact

      When sending in your travel details, reference the Federal 2011 AG Guidelines and the respective section in addition to the smart.gov website information within your letter showing your compliance. Breathe… You’re going to get through this.

    • JM from wi

      @Illinois Contact:
      In wi. another sorna non-compliant state we give notices to a DOC employee we pay $100/ year or $2,450,000 for this privilege. I do all notices by E-mail. This allows me to keep copies of all notices and their responses on my phone. I take my phone, and duplicate hard copies with me. E-mail allows me to keep copies of all correspondence with dates.
      If the Illinois police would respond back to the 21 day E-mail notice with an e-mail request to give them a 3 day notice, that exchange should suffice. AJ’s Document Document Document advise is very real.
      When coming back through US customs/security/ secondary I provide them with hard copies. My impression is that they need to document the paper trail (my process may be oversimplified by my DOC liaison’s already having given notification).
      I wouldn’t want to be the guinea pig; but a felony charge for non compliance with sorna caused by a police dept. / state’s mishandling of the notice would be severe damages.

  47. steve

    So our Europe trip has begun. Made it through Munich without a hitch. Passport scan and stamp and he didn’t blink twice. Waiting for my connection to Paris.

    • E @ Steve

      Great to hear. Have fun. MUC has some decent German food at the airport before you fly to see the Frenchies 🙂

      • steve

        No customs at all entering Paris flew Lufthansa and went thru their face scan at LAX.

        • steve

          I’m guessing my passport inspection and stamp in Munich sufficed for Paris going EU country to EU country.

  48. Illinois Contact

    @steve So thoughtful of you to take the time to share your wonderful news. Europe seems to be the dream location. Hopefully my wife and I will sail through customs when we arrive in Porto, Portugal.

    Well, as to 21 day foreign travel notice in Illinois, in the face of the many concerned comments (thanks for your time), I called the Illinois State Police Sex Offender Registration Unit in Springfield and had a talk with the officer who answered. He assured me that all I need to do is comply with what my local registration office in Chicago specifies — 3-day in advance notice of change of address when traveling out of the country (or the state). Yes, he understood that this seems to be contrary to the IML/SORNA rules, but he assured me that if I do what I’m told by the office where I register that I won’t get in trouble. He said he had heard from a number of others who had the same issue and did what they were told, and that no one had been arrested or had any problems.

    So, I’m going to take that advice. I don’t think it prudent to make a big scene over this or call too much attention to myself. As you all know, the police have very great discretion over what they can do to us, and I have been successful through the years flying under the radar. I have asked the highest authority and received the answer. By the way, no SOR police unit (Chicago or Springfield) has an email address, and the State Police will absolutely not accept any kind of registration notices from individuals by mail or in person.

    • AJ

      @Illinois Contact:
      So what happens when the USMS decide to make an example out of you and nab you at the departure gate for the Federal violation? Illinois can speak for its officers and enforcement procedures all it wants, but that in no way protects you from the Feds if you have not complied with Federal law and guidelines (i.e. 21 days).

      You’re probably safe, but technically there’s a risk if you don’t at least attempt a 21-day notification. Your level of risk acceptance will determine your path.

      • Will Allen

        I wouldn’t even think about risking it. It would be trivial for the travel to be flagged and them to show up and arrest him. They are exactly the type of scumbags who would love to do that.

        He should mail them exactly as you said. It would be super easy, low cost, and cover himself.

      • TS

        @IL Contact

        @AJ is right. That’s what we’ve been trying to tell you as long as you’ve asked here. Did you get the name, rank, office, etc for the IL SP member who helped you that you can tell USMS about? A documented attempt is all that’s needed. An ounce of prevention…

        • steve

          I gave my 21 day notice to a random officer walking in who offered to help me as registration was closed. He gave me his business card wrote the time and day I went to drop it off and he signed the his business card. I’m carrying it with me until I return.

        • AJ

          @steve:
          “I’m carrying it with me until I return.”
          —–
          I’d take a picture and make a photocopy of that baby, too. “Multiple copies archived in multiple formats” is my motto, ANYtime I’m dealing with Government. Doubly so when it’s RC stuff. (I’m lucky enough to live in a single-consent State, so I *looove* calling them with my questions. 😉 )

        • anonymouse

          “A documented attempt is all that’s needed.”
          On what exactly are you basing this declarative statement?

          This may very well be. But then again it may not.

          Please everyone….. review the official disclaimer in yellow right above the comments. NOTHING here is to be taken as legal advice. Do your own research. Because you may be looking at 10 years in federal prison while @TS goes “oooops”.

        • TS

          @anonymouse

          You are now disputing the effort to fulfill the 21 day travel notification requirement, to an LE Dept that has said only three days is needed, per Federal law that you have hounded on and prove it with documentation? Make up your mind!!

          How else is someone going to prove to USMS at the airport after they are pulled off the plane or when boarding they tried to fulfill the 21 day requirement if their state does not comply with it without documentation? On a whim of their word? PUHLEEZE! A documented effort to notify the registration office needs to be done and carried to be proven if asked.

          If you read here about doing a 21 day notice regardless of what state says because the Feds say 21 days is the standard, then you will plainly see I am not the only one who recommends a documented effort. If he attempts to notify CPD 21 days or more and is rejected, he has met the Fed requirement and can prove that with documentation should he be challenged at the gate.

          I have always said people need to do their own research on their travel since they are traveling, not us. However, when this forum is asked for their thoughts, opinions, or advice, we will provide it, but it is up to them to do as they wish. No legal advice is given.

          In conclusion, there will be no oops and ten years if someone is trying to meet the Fed 21 day notification requirement as stated in the AG Guidelines and can prove it with a documented effort.

        • Will Allen

          TS:

          I get that it would likely be very helpful for a person to carry proof with them that they have met this 21 day BS requirement. However, I think it would be pretty cool if a person did not. It is not required. So make the Law Enforcement Criminals (LECs) do some work. Make it a routine pain in the ass for them. I do that as often as I can. Waste their time. Annoy them. Make them feel like they are doing annoying, truly useless work that they will eventually find out has yielded them a big fat nothing.

          Do you think they could hold you? For how long? They MUST know, it MUST be known, that just because they don’t have any notice about you traveling that it doesn’t mean shit. Doesn’t mean that you didn’t comply with the law. They MUST know that their systems and themselves REALLY are THAT incompetent. If they held you for very long, you sure as hell ought to be able to sue them. Or can LECs hold people now with zero proof at all that any crime has been committed?

        • AJ

          “In conclusion, there will be no oops and ten years if someone is trying to meet the Fed 21 day notification requirement as stated in the AG Guidelines and can prove it with a documented effort.”
          —–
          Inability to comply with a law is an affirmative defense. Given the only method to accomplish one’s federal notification is through the State, there’s absolutely a hurdle (or wall) to compliance if the State uses less than 21 days as the standard.

          That said, one can still make a yeoman’s effort and comply 21+ days in advance. If the State (ILSP, CCSO, CPD, whomever in the current discussion) 86s the documents, so be it–I’ll still have my proof of complying with my end of the deal (submitting in a timely manner). As long as I submit 21+ days, I’ll have met or exceeded both Federal and State requirements. So whichever entity tries to come after me will be told to pound sand because the loss or absence of my paperwork on their end is their fault, not mine.

  49. James I

    Nicely done, Steve…I was kind of worried for you.

    No one likes this, but you took some good advice and can rest easier now.

    I know that you, and I and most of us, like to travel under the radar…but on this you really had to protect yourself…(better than you were doing).

    Where you are isn’t perfect, but it should be adequate.

    Lastly, if you don’t mind me asking, how detailed were you in your itinerary? Pretty specific, (actual hotels and dates), or more general, (ie Munich then Salzburg, Vienna) and fly home?
    **********
    Since we are discussing 21 day notice….how do people feel about US Priority Mail? I use it frequently for important stuff…it has mailed date and tracking so you know that LEA have at least received it. A problem I see is that your US Post Office Receipt will not say what was in the envelope…but this would be true for certified mail also.

    I’m just thinking out loud here.

    Best Wishes, James I

    • steve

      @James I did what somebody else recommended. “Staying at private residence” “Going on a private boat” which are Airbnb’s and a 30 person boat. Gave all the flights/connections and dates on the boat. I am staying at one hotel and gave the name of it.

      • Mike G

        @steve

        Thanks for the updates! Give us quick check-ins when you can. If we don’t hear from you, we’ll worry that something happened.

  50. David

    Bon voyage, everyone! I just received my extra special you-are-welcome-everywhere US passport! Oh, did I mention that it’s specially monogrammed just for me??? 🤮🤬

    • Mike G

      Congrats 😉 I hope they used Gold Leaf…

    • Will Allen

      People everywhere ought to be burning Amerikan flags in the streets. So well deserved.

      Today, I will ensure that Amerikan Registries are worthless and that they harm society. Today.

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