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International Travel 2020

In this International Travel 2020 post, the information is identical to the International Travel 2019 post. We added a new post for 2020 in order to keep the discussion manageable. Please help us by sticking to the topic of International Travel only.


From 2019: We have updated our main International Travel section. It features:

  1. List of Schengen Nations (allowing entry to registrants);
  2. Resources (including a CA DOJ Travel Notification Form); and
  3. User Submitted Travel Reports.

This post is linked from the Main Menu at the top of the site.

1. The 26 Schengen Nations (which allow registrants to visit)

As an agreement, Schengen was signed among the five out of ten countries of the European Union members back then, on the 14th June 1985. Under the Schengen agreement, travelling from one Schengen country to another is done without any passport and immigration controls or any other formalities previously required.

Czech republic

Note: US Citizens are visa exempt when visiting the Schengen area for up to 90 days in a 180 day period (List of Countries, Section B or map).  The European Commission is proposing creating a European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) for such travelers, beginning in 2021 – which may or may not take criminal convictions into account. ETIAS Fact Sheet April 2018July 2018

2. Resources



Older Posts


Join the discussion

  1. Svejk

    Greetings all. I came back from a European trip in 2018 and about 1-1/2 months later got the certified letter from Dept. of State. I never picked it up and let it be returned. Fuck ’em, y’know? About a month after that, I and my state senator succeeded in getting myself removed from the PA registry, where I live. I immediately asked Dept. of State to re-instate my passport, but got a snotty letter in return advising me that, too bad, I had to get a new passport. Did it via the express option, and had the thing in 3 days (!). No stamp, as I am a free man.
    Emailed with the Angel Watch as well, and was informed that they had informed DoS that I was no longer required to have the stamp in my passport, but that it might change if I relocated to a state where I had to re-register. Cool.
    Now, my question is, and perhaps some of you have had this experience and can give a straight answer: Am I now free to travel to Mexico, Central/South America and the UK? Or will Angel Watch or Interpol forever be sending notices about me in advance?
    Thanks folks!

    • TS


      In theory, you are free now to travel to those locations since you no longer have to report travel 21 days in advance. Hopefully you can do so free of any notices. However, based on recent comments here from @M C there may be notices still sent anyway after being freed from the registry and notification.

    • M C

      @Svejk, there is no clear answer to this question. They can certainly send out green notices just for having committed the offense if the offense involved a minor. In practice from what I’ve gathered they do send them most of the time but not all of the time. The problem is that if you try it and they notice you, you may never get to go even years later. For Mexico, unless you need to travel there right away, I’d wait and see what happens with the lawsuits there. I couldn’t tell you about Central America. If your case is old enough you might get in the UK if it would be a spent conviction, and that may be true even if you were a current registrant. In your case if you try going anywhere, please report back the results as this is the only way we learn for sure who is and isn’t able to get into places.

      • Svejk

        Thanks for the info! My case is 27 years old (!) and my sentence (including supervision) was completely discharged in February of 2004. I’m hoping this would be considered spent for UK purposes.

        • Tuna

          The concept of spent conviction in the UK also has an element of how long one was imprisoned. I recall reading that a sentence of over 30 months imprisonment can never be ‘spent’.

        • M C

          If your imprisonment was less than 4 years and 10 years have passed. They can still deny entry though on the basis of “exclusion of the person from the United Kingdom to be conducive to the public good. ” It is my understanding that this is a judgment call and there’s a referral appeals process for this if such discretion is used. The green notice could put you in this category. Without a green notice you are not likely to have an issue

        • M C

          @Tuna. If less than 1yr incarceration, 5 years it’s spent. If between 1 and 4yr incarceration, after 10yr is spent. More than 4yr it’s never spent. Probably need to calculate from end of sentence not incarceration.

        • Austin

          For UK, Keep in mind that it is the sentence, not the term of imprisonment. Also there are several that are never considered “spent”.

        • M C

          @austin, The link you posted is not about spent convictions but rather about DBS checks. That’s for employment related things such as working with children or disabled / vulnerable people etc. The conviction in those cases is still spent it just has to be disclosed because it’s an exception for that specific purpose.

        • mad

          Actually, based on the wikipedia article about the British rehabilitation of offenders of 1974 act (, as well as this website (, the only part that counts for the purposes of the rehabilitation period is the prison sentence. If you are on supervision afterwards, that does NOT affect the rehabilitation period. If you were on probation but didn’t go to prison, it’s one year after probation is over.

          Also, in 2014 the rules changed and someone who served between 6 and 30 months in prison has a 4-year rehabilitation period that starts at the end of their prison term. See the wiki page.

        • David J

          Please keep us updated on this. I’m assuming you won’t be travelling anytime soon, but as someone on the register in UK I do know that convictions are classed as spent as suggested in previous comments.

          From what I understand though, the UK and USA share databases, so the warnings they send might not be the only thing. As the conviction was so long ago I’m not sure it would be an issue.

          Please keep us informed of your experience. I hope it goes well for you as I have travel dreams of my own if I’m ever removed from the register.

    • Carey

      You are FREE to travel to any country that does not blanket ban all felons! If your case was a misdemeanor, then you can travel to ANY country!

      • Doc Martin

        Any American with a valid passport can travel to ANY country. Whether or not that country let’s you in is up to them. Registered sex offenders with Misdemeanors are often excluded from countries that welcome people with non sex offense felonies. Mexico is a prime example. So being convicted of a misdemeanor or a felony makes little difference.

        • Carey

          I know many former Level One RSOs who waited out their 20 years in New York who have traveled to and were allowed entry into Mexico with no problem!

          Don’t wait ’til you are removed from the registry, though! Just sail down along the coast there, and claim emergency mandatory repairs. They have to let you enter! That works in any country! Usually a hundred dollar bill expedites the matter! They will ask what your intended destination is, and just say Guatemala, whether you are on the Caribbean side, or Pacific one!

          If you don’t know how to sail, take an extensive offshore blue water course (two to three weeks), and watch a lot of Sailing Channels on YouTube!

        • Mike G

          Traveling to Mexico has never been a problem. I’ve been there over 100 times. You just drive across the border – that’s it.

          Or, jump on a cruise ship with a stop in Mexico. I was in Puerto Vallarta in December.
          No one ever asked to see my passport, except when I opened a bank account.

          FLYING in to Mexico is the problem. They will not let you in if you have a sex offense record – misdemeanor or felony – doesn’t matter.

          Of course now, everything has changed. They have closed their border (or so they claim) due to Covid-19. We’ll have to see when or if we will be able to just waltz right in there again.

  2. David

    Well, beside, when you submit the 21-day travel notice, you provide your flight number. If your plan is to book and cancel, you had better keep documentation of that original booking so you can verify that you intended to travel but changed your mind. Otherwise, if you put down just any flight number, it would likely be viewed as intentional deception.

    I am more interested in how we notify the USMS/State Dept. about immediate travel. I’d love to hop a flight to somewhere on short notice (say 2 or 3 days), but where’s the DOJ/USMS form for that? So my travel is certainly hindered – I can’t on-the-spur-of-the-moment, up & fly off to Europe, can I?? 😒

    • M C


      My understanding is that if there is a reason that you have to leave without giving a 21 day notice you can notify as soon as you know that you will have to travel. You would still notify the same people you would notify with the 21 day notice. In that sense, your travel isn’t restricted because you can, in fact go in an emergency situation.

      Where it seems to be restricted is for an impromptu trip going to say Europe because there was a last-minute flight deal and you decided you wanted to go? In this case it was never practical to give a 21 day notice and in this sense your travel is being unconstitutionally restricted. You should be able to walk in the airport one afternoon to the check-in counter and decide to leave for Europe 3 hrs before the flight is supposed to take off. In that situation it wouldn’t really be practical or even possible to give the notice of the travel at all. Constitutionally I think you would have the right to travel in this manner and the IML notification requirement would not be enforceable because you didn’t know of the travel in advance. That said, you might have to get arrested for this first to lack standing to challenge it.

      I’ve kind of wondered, what if you are someone who as access to airline employee benefits. I’m sure none of us can work for an airline but what if a family member does and you qualify under that. As far as giving flight information you could do so, but because you are a standby passenger, it is not unusual to have to wait for the next open flight in order to leave. During busy times or after a bunch of weather cancellations, this can sometimes be a day or more after your originally planned flight. How are you supposed to handle the 21 day notice in that situation?

      • anonymouse

        M C – what is the basis for your “understanding”?

      • Will Allen

        Plenty of People Forced to Register (PFR) work for airlines. Airlines hire people who work all over the place, including on airport tarmacs, guiding planes into gates, etc. There aren’t many children out there for the Registry Supporters/Terrorists/Idiots (RS/T/Is) to fantasize people are molesting. So yep, all you have to do is look at some of the Registries and you will see PFRs employed at airports.

        It is 100% unacceptable that any American citizen not on probation or parole cannot walk into an airport and get a ticket for an international flight that leaves in an hour. Unacceptable. Anyone who thinks otherwise deserves to be shipped out of America permanently, as a MINIMUM punishment. If they don’t like that, there should be other punishments.

        Personally, I think that PFRs can decide to travel internationally, notify some criminal regime to satisfy the 21 day requirement, and then leave within the next hour. And, it’s 2020, if the criminal regimes can get a “warning” transferred over to a destination country before a plane can get there, then they are exactly the pathetic, incompetent morons that I know they are.

        Wage war on RS/T/Is. Every. Single. Day.

        I will this weekend.

        • M C

          @Wil Allen, I’m glad to hear you know of registrants that work for the airlines. I once applied for ramp work maybe 12 years ago or so and was interviewed and told me that they couldn’t hire me as RSO because I wouldn’t pass the federal checks to work at an airport. I just assumed that that must be a blanket rule for airports and RSO because I knew of at least two others working for the airlines that had other felonies and we’re on probation and they worked for that airline. Apparently that’s not correct.

          Not being able to go to an airport on some random day and hop on the cheapest international flight somewhere with no previous plan to travel sounds like ex post facto punishment to me. Everyone else can do it.

      • TS

        @M C

        As long as you notify for your originally intended travel, any changes thereafter beyond your control is beyond your ability to update notification, which isn’t required anyway since it’s not addressed, e.g. govt omission. That’s my legal leg to stand on.

        The other consideration is if your delayed return pushes you into the window of having to register in that jurisdiction which you are stuck in…

      • TS

        There are travel exceptions allowed for <21 day notification as detailed in the Federal Register with authorization given by the Attorney General that we have discussed here a multitude of times previously. The thread can be found in this forum under International travel.

      • David

        A couple years ago, I missed a flight to Europe and was able to catch one the next day. I notified my city’s registering agent via email before the plane departed and she responded, “No problem. I will revise the information.” Apparently she did so and Demon Watch was still able to notify the destination country (which couldn’t seem to care less about my visit!)
        Clearly, the USMS does NOT need a full 21-day advance notice to send out their beloved green notices. In fact, they can do so with less than 24 hours notice. A lot less.

        • E @ David

          The point of my original question about whether updates are required if plans change or the trip is cancelled after giving 21 days notice was specifically because I don’t believe what you did when you emailed them again is required OR a good idea. Don’t let them trick you into letting them track you any closer than the requirement of the law, which is the 21 day notice. By updating your information on an ongoing basis you feed their assumption that you’re effectively on probation checking in with a probation agent and need their permission to do anything. We don’t need permission. We’re required to give notice.

        • TS


          Are you sure your original notification wasn’t showing at your destination and was replaced by a new one from your email update?

        • David

          @ TS: You make a good point. I do not know when the green notice was sent.

    • someone who cares

      We all know, that airline tickets are often a lit cheaper if you book short notice, so why would we not be able to decide spur of the moment to book a flight?

      • David

        How do you do both “spur of the moment” travel and 21-day advanced travel notice simultaneously?

        • TS


          Thus, is that a harm if one cannot do last minute overseas travel for recreation if you have to do 21 day notice and no reasonable exception for less than?

  3. Qigong

    @M C
    Just information:
    I deliver diesel fuel for a company out of the Bay Area. CA.
    I am a 288a. RSO, on my 4.5 yr of 5 years parole
    We provide on site diesel fueling for several construction companies.
    One of our customers is doing construction at SFO airport.
    In order for me to deliver fuel on site, I had to go through criminal back ground
    check, fingerprinting etc. to obtain Security Clearance from TSA, DOJ/FBI
    I passed, I was issued my Badge pass and can enter through the security check points un-escorted.
    I don’t work for the Airport, but I am cleared by TSA

  4. Eli

    How long did the global Entry application take for once submitted? Its been like two weeks, no interview yet.

  5. Carey

    I wish the list was more accurate!

    You know that we can travel to all of the non-UK European Caribbean, but you only list the Dutch ones at the bottom of the the Island Chain -Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao!

    Please list ALL of Europe’s non-UK Caribbean, and Worldwide Territories, because we are indeed allowed to travel to, and enter, every single one of their far flung territories!

  6. Carey

    What countries are we allowed to travel to in Africa, and are we allowed to travel to Russia?

    As to what countries I have been to since leaving the U.S. in early 2019…. Hong Kong twice (maxing out my 90 days both times)… Europe (in between the two Hong Kong stays) – Stockholm for a month (absolutely loved my stay there!), Kobenhavn (for a week), and Napoli (for 7 1/2 weeks)! I have been in Nepal since leaving Hong Kong on January 1st! My 90 days stay will be up on March 30th, but as there won’t be any flights leaving Nepal until, at the earliest, April 8th, immigration told me that all tourist vidas have been extended indefinitely! Oh… And this is one of only a few countries where almost no foreigner wears a mask. The locals are scared you know what, but as there have not been any positive tests announced here in gorgeous Pokhara, we walk around mask free! DEFINITELY look into coming here to Nepal! With the exception of Kathmandu’s dirty air, the rest of the country is MINDBLOWINGLY BREATHTAKING!

    • Russ

      I thought Nepal stopped letting in registered sex offenders after a few high profile cases of western travelers befriending families and abusing their children. Did you give a green notice before you went to Nepal? And I don’t know if you’re a woman. Sometimes customs look at female sex offenders as less of a threat.

  7. CB

    Hello, I’m an intermittent reader of this and other forums, but I’ve never posted anything (until now). Several questions below, so please bear with me. I have 1.5 years supervision time left and then I can travel, and I’ve been making tentative plans for years. Of course, the goalpost keeps moving. I have been to several Central and South American countries in the past and planned to go back, but now that I’m on the registry and have to report my international travel 21 days in advance most of those countries are now a no go as reported in the travel matrix as well as various traveler accounts posted online. Down south it appears as though Guatemala is one of the few countries still letting us in. This has been on my list anyway so I am thinking about it.

    Here are a few questions:
    The international travel requirements for those of us on the registry states that we have to report various details about a planned international trip, including specific dates, destination, itinerary, and so on. If I go to a small Central American country like Guatemala where the neighboring countries are so close, what if I want to go next door to Honduras or Mexico? Do I also have to report this before I leave the US? I wouldn’t be going to Mexico from the US, but from Guatemala, and it would be a land crossing, not by air. Even if I did have to report the crossing before leaving the US, Is the Mexican border control organized enough that when I try to walk across the border at a rural crossing, they will have access to my nasty info when I hand them my passport?
    One last question. Most people report problems when travelling by plane or cruise ship. What if I get down to San Diego or somewhere in Texas and just walk across with everyone else who is commuting by foot? Of course, I would report this 21 days in advance, but would they have the same urgency at the border that they have when you arrive by plane. A friend of mine walked across at San Diego about 10 years ago and he said it was so chaotic and busy that if you were a well dressed American they hardly paid any attention. He said he just went through without showing his passport to anyone. Of course I wouldn’t advocate this, but his example just shows that it is much less organized than when arriving by air. Thank you for any clarifications or travel experiences you can provide

    • Russ

      When I lived in California pre-911, I walked across the border many times with no questions asked. Most times I was just waved on by Mexican customs.They didn’t ask to see documents. 20 years later and now a convicted sex offender with a felony, I might get lucky and be able to walk across the border after I’d given my 21 day notice and IF customs didn’t get the green notice and IF they did get it but IF they don’t check for documentation when I walk across. You see, there’s too many ‘ifs’ Bottom line, Mexico doesn’t want international registered sex offenders inside of their country. People on this forum who tell you otherwise are just plain wrong and don’t know what they’re talking about. Sure,some on here will say they walked across or know someone who has walked across or someone was able to step off a cruise ship at Mazatlan or some shit like that, but in the end, none of those things matter if you still have to duck and hide when you travel around Mexico because you’ll eventually run into some official who’ll ask you for papers, they’ll find your interpol green notice, then they’ll place your ass into some 3rd world shithole jail until they sort things out and send your sorry ass back to the USA. Personally, I don’t want to take my chance with Mexico when there are other welcoming countries in the world to travel to.

    • M C


      I agree with Russ that it isn’t worth the risk. That said, you are supposed to report everywhere you plan to go on the 21 day notice as far as that piece of your question is concerned. If you go somewhere and then decide to travel somewhere else you didn’t originally plan, you may be able to argue that it wasn’t really planned travel and didn’t need to be reported because you were unaware you were going to go there in advance.

    • CB

      Thanks for the comments so far. I guess the walk across the border thing sounded good because at least I wouldn’t be wasting a plane ticket to find out. I could have a backup plan in California so if I got shut down I could just move into plan B. Using the Guatemala example, I guess it would make sense to just tell them in advance I plan to visit these other countries as well.

      Europe poses a different problem. You only have to go through Customs upon entry in Europe and don’t have to keep showing passport at each country border as far as I know. So if I flew to Germany and then decided to take the train here and there I would have to inform in advance also. I guess it makes sense to just say I’m going to Germany, then France, then Austria, then Sweden and so on. Any more thoughts are welcome. Thanks

  8. Getting out ASAP

    RSO here with 1.5 years left on parole. I do plan to move overseas once this is done, INDEFINITELY. From what has been posted here as well as on RTAG, it seems like Hong Kong doesn’t care about RSOs as of now.

    I’m trying to see if my plan is feasible. I’ll give the 21-day notice that I’m leaving for good and only destination I know of for now is Hong Kong. Will they then take me off of the registry, both state (Michigan), and federal lists? I really do intend on never coming back to the USA. If so, will I be able to enter a country that normally turns away RSOs, like South Korea (among others)?

    Only reason I can think of for me to even enter the States is if someone died or got married. Other than that, I don’t ever want to step foot again in this messed up hell-hole of a country. Trying to see if my travel ability will “open” up for the most part when I leave with zero intentions of coming back.

    I’ve lived overseas for over 4 years and I know how nice it is abroad. I want to confirm my avenue to get as much of my freedom back as possible is doable.


    • CB

      Sounds like a noble plan and I as well would love to go to Europe and stay there, but you and I will both be faced with the same problem. We may be able to get in, buy on a tourist visa you are limited to anywhere from 30 to 90 days depending on the country. How will you be able to stay there long term?

      • Gralphr

        He could apply for asylum in some of the European countries. What the Us is doing concerning the registry is looked at as setting peoole up for failure and denying basic civil rights. While I was in Germany, I would talk with natives and they would bring of the differences between here and there. When I mentioned the registry EVERY single one was shocked and taken aback by it. Their only question was how does the citizens allow the government to do something like it and get away with it. All of them said its denying people the right to go on with their lives and to make them productive.

      • Looking for Answers

        Maybe you can get a work visa and get a job right away, or a student visa if you study there?

        • Ray

          A tourist or visitor’s visa is one thing, but most countries require a police clearance for study and work visas. Registered sex offenders with crimminal records need not apply.

        • MLinCA

          Your statement is not correct. Here’s a former registrant who now lives in Germany.

        • Looking for Answers

          But people have done it before. Not all countries look at PRIOR convictions like America or blast you for the rest of your life for something you did years ago. And dont forget Europe voted for a “right to be forgotten” online which would never happen here.

      • Doc Martin

        Currently Americans can stay visa free for up to 90 days inside a period of 180 days in the schengen zone. The zone make the rules on how long you can stay, not individual countries. So if you have trouble staying in or overstayed your welcome in one schengen country, you’ll have trouble inside the entire zone. To get around the 90 day time limit, and some on this forum have brought this up, travel to a non schengen country for 90 days i.e. Bosnia, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Serbia, Albania (where Americans are allowed to stay for up to a year), Romania, Bulgaria, and don’t forget the non EU countries in the region like Turkey,Ukraine, Georgia (which also allows Americans to stay up to a year), Kosovo, Armenia etc. All the non schengen countries can be used as way stations for 90 days until the next 180 day period begins where one is once again elgible for a schengen visit.

      • Notorious D.I.K.ennerly

        Absolutely correct. As for seeking asylum, I have not yet heard of anyone seeking asylum for the purpose of escaping the registry. Some have had luck seeking asylum from the U.S.’ savage criminal sentences but not the consequences of the registry. Asylum from the registry would be a whole, new ballgame. Keep in mind that Europeans are not moving in a good direction on sex laws and are implementing a new regime to block even some foreign visitors with criminal backgrounds. Rose colored glasses for viewing Europe are likely to lead to disappointment. Much has changed there.

    • Blake

      You must have deep pockets if Hong Kong is an option. Even locales can’t afford the real estate prices in Hong Kong being bought out by wealthy Chinese mainlanders. But if you can swing it, the more power to you.

    • SF

      Did you apply for a passport while on supervision? If so, did you have any issues obtaining it?

  9. Wondering

    IML seems to provide different definitions of “sex offender” in its various sections. IOW it seems that not all the provisions apply to Everyone (green notices, branded passport, 21-day notice requirement).

    The definition of sex offender provided under Section 6 of IML (the “Notice of Travel” section – “Requirement That Sex Offenders Provide International Travel Related Information To Sex Offender Registries”) says, “Whoever–(1) is required to register under the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act (42 U.S.C. 16901 et seq.)… As such, the notice provision appears to only apply to those who are required to register under SORNA (federal requirement and not merely another jurisdiction).

    Does this mean that even if you’re listed on a state registry but you’re past your required federal term of registration per your particular tier, then you’re not required to give the 21-day notice per SORNA?

    (I’m listed in Florida where I was charged while on vacation back in the 90s, but not in my home state because the offense was/is not a covered offense in my home state).

    Thank you.

    • TS


      Just charged, not convicted?

      Fla is the fly in the ointment that way but notify where you register and don’t if you’re no longer required. Just have paperwork on hand to show this either way if you can since Fla can’t play by normal rules.

      • Wondering

        I was sentenced to 2 years probation back in ‘98 which I completed in 2000. Adjudication withheld which I know is a conviction for SORNA. So yes, I was convincted in Florida. Despite not having any connection to Florida for almost 25 years since my conviction, Florida still lists me in the FDLE registry.

        My question is whether the requirement to give notice of intl travel still applies when one is no longer required per SORNA to register at the Federal level – My FEDERAL registration obligation ended in 2010 ad a Tier 1 since my probation ended in 2000 and I had (and have) a clean record.

        (I’m not required even in my home state to register -never was, bc indecent exposure is not a covered offense here even when involving a minor).

        The definition of sex offender under this Particular SORNA provision requiring notice of travel says it applies to anyone (currently) required to register under SORNA.

        Since I’m not under SORNA required to register any longer, nor even in my home state, do I owe the Feds this notice if I decide to travel abroad?

        Again – The definition of sex offender provided under Section 6 of IML (the “Notice of Travel” section – “Requirement That Sex Offenders Provide International Travel Related Information To Sex Offender Registries”) says, “Whoever–(1) is required to register under the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act (42 U.S.C. 16901 et seq.)… As such, the notice provision appears to only apply to those who are required to register under SORNA (federal requirement and not merely another jurisdiction).

        Thank you for any input.

        • M C

          I don’t think you need to report travel if you are no longer registered in the jurisdiction where you live as they would likely not even know how to handle the notification if you tried. I also agree that you don’t have to under SORNA. I’m not sure about Florida law however and if you could be required to report this to them and update your registration information as well even if you are not living there. Maybe someone else can answer that. In any case since you meet the “registered in any state” requirement you should expect to be green noticed if you are on an international flight manifest.

        • TS


          Ask Florida action committee for guidance because they might be able to help you in this particular travel situation where Florida still has you registered.

        • AJ

          I would say that technically he’s not registered in/with FL, he’s merely on the FL registry. To be registered would mean he’s subject to FL’s registration requirements. He’s not, so he cannot be “registered in FL.” Does FL have a requirement to notify when leaving the State? That would certainly seem to support being “de-registered” there.

          As for IML, doesn’t it also have some paragraph about being in the National Registry and required to register? This would seem to point again to not needing to give IML notification since he’s not registered in his resident State.

  10. Jim

    Does anyone know if travel to Venezuela would be scrutinized other then at the political level? Does anyone have any experience going there? I looked at the site with the travel matrix but it’s not on it. In fact it hasn’t been updated, both the matrix and the comments. Just wanted to know. Thanks ahead of time!!

  11. Wondering

    It would seem from a textual reading of SORNA that the 21-day notice requirement in particular doesn’t apply if you’re no longer federally required to register under Federal SORNA (due to the expiration of your term per your tier) and you don’t have a separate State obligation to notify the state of intended intl travel (e.g., bc the state is not SORNA compliant or because you’re not required to register with your state of residence).

    In my case with Florida, I’m “listed” for life per their policy, and accordingly I’ll probably have a branded passport and green notices sent out because SORNA applies these two requirements on the basis of either a conviction EVER or the fact of being listed on a registry (see below SORNA text snippets).

    My federal obligation to register (which is recognized as a separate duty from a state duty to register) ended 10 years after my sentencing on my federal Tier 1 offense – in 2008. But because my state’s Supreme Court held that under the state constitution citizens of the state have greater privacy rights than under the federal constitution the state would not participate in the federal SORNA, even when under federal law a person was required to register. The state opinion noted that as long as the person was in Maryland this federal obligation would not be enforced where there wasn’t a state duty to register. Amazing thing, really.

    But perhaps a more accurate way to look at my being listed in florida that they haven’t “removed” me from the registry after initially listing me as SORNA requires – not that I’m an actual registrant there since I don’t have any connection to that state.

    Federal SORNA, however, makes it explicit in the guidelines, that SORNA itself doesn’t require states to continue to list anyone no longer having a connection to the state, and certainly not to update registration information once the registrant leaves. This is a dubious Florida practice. Florida itself doesn’t require updating the registry details once someone leaves the state. I can only surmise that their policy is revenge, because it certainly is not required by federal SORNA nor does it serve any public safety purpose within Florida.

    In my home state, the offense was never considered a covered sex crime and thus I’m not on the registry here.

    Therefore if I were to approach my local registry shop to report my intl travel, I don’t know how they would react..

    SORNA has different provisions for green notices, branded passports, and the 21-day notice requirement. Surprisingly, not each of these three concerns might apply to everyone. Different sections of IML have different definitions of who it applies to. In some cases it is “offense based” – if you committed the offense, it applies to you. In other sections, it is “status based” – if you are registered as a sex offender, it applies to you.

    The definitions section of IML contains the following definition, “Covered sex offender.–Except as otherwise provided, the term “covered sex offender” means an individual who is a sex offender by reason of having been convicted of a sex offense against a minor.” That would seem “offense based”.

    However, under Section 5 (the “Green Notice” Section) it says, “In this section, the term “sex offender” means– (1) a sex offender under SORNA; or (2) a person required to register under the sex offender registration program of any jurisdiction or included in the National Sex Offender Registry. That would seem “status based”. So, according to (our) interpretation of IML, you are covered by the law if you have ever been convicted (including withhold of adjudication) of a qualifying offense, but under Section 5, if you are no longer required to register, they won’t send out green notices on you.

    Section 6 of IML (the “Notice of Travel” section – “Requirement That Sex Offenders Provide International Travel Related Information To Sex Offender Registries”) says, “Whoever–(1) is required to register under the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act (42 U.S.C. 16901 et seq.)… As such, the notice provision appears to only apply to those who are required to register under SORNA (federal requirement and not merely another jurisdiction).

    Finally, Section 8 of IML covers the “UNIQUE PASSPORT IDENTIFIERS FOR COVERED SEX OFFENDERS.” While the title suggests the identifiers apply to “covered sex offenders” as defined in the definition section of IML (and would be “offense based”), Section 8 has it’s own definition of “covered sex offender”, which is: “(1) the term `covered sex offender’ means an individual who–(A) is a sex offender, as defined in section 4(f) of the International Megan’s Law to Prevent Child Exploitation and Other Sexual Crimes Through Advanced Notification of Traveling Sex Offenders; and (B) is currently required to register under the sex offender registration program of any jurisdiction;” In other words, the “branded passport” would apply to registrants currently required to register under the sex offender registration program of any jurisdiction who have a conviction against a minor.

    • David

      (Amazing how effectively Florida defeats its own public safety claims by continuing to list individuals who no longer reside in Florida and even individuals who are DEAD and – by that simple characteristic of being deceased – are clearly no longer a public safety threat to anyone.)

    • M C

      Where I get confused about IML an SORNA as a whole is my particular situation. I’m not required to register in the state where I live but would be required to register under federal SORNA based on the offense however, SORNA also explicitly states that someone who is no longer registered in a jurisdiction is subject to retroactivity when the state adopts SORNA subject to the Attorney General’s rules. These rules are clear in that they don’t require you to be captured back into the registry unless you commit some other crime (after the state adopts SORNA) but the state can make a stricter retroactive application if they would like to. While I understand moving to or in some cases visiting certain states could recapture me for SORNA, I think I can at least try to claim I’m not subject to SORNA based on the fact that I’ve not triggered a recapture under the rules. So the way I see it is that I’m not an offender under SORNA. Not sure it would work that way for IML however. In either case, I’m off the SORNA even for recapture due to the passage of time in about four years. And yes I know that may not change things for certain states but would for federal. Quite frankly the most confusing is how IML would apply in this situation for green notices.

      • Wondering

        Seems to me that If you’re not subject to SORNA then you wouldn’t be required to register under SORNA. Therefore it would seem that you wouldn’t be required to give the 21-day notice nor, arguably, be subject to the green notices. You shouldn’t even get a marked passport.

        Having said this, both of our situations require some understanding of SORNA, and as is frequently the case with legal matters one can make valid arguments but in the end not prevail.

        You’ll be on a firmer footing when you’re finally not subject to SORNA due to the passage of time.

        I personally do not want to be a test case -don’t have the resources nor do I want to end up incarcerated esp at my age.

        Although I do believe that I’m not required to give advance notice of travel since my SORNA registration term expired a long time ago per my tier, and I don’t have to register in my home state, Florida still “lists” me.
        And I wonder if that fact alone might somehow trigger scrutiny should I travel abroad without providing advance notice. And, to which state exactly would I give my notice of travel anyways -Florida which has no jurisdiction over me, or Maryland which doesn’t require me to register. Maybe I’m being more paranoid than warranted.

        Logic is one thing. How the cast of characters that make up the SORNA systems would react if I don’t give notice might still be a problem.. fear! And that’s exactly how they want us isn’t it.

        • M C

          @Wondering, if you are going to travel and want to be absolutely sure you have covered yourself you can attempt to give 21 day notice to whoever is the registry authority in your area. If they don’t accept them for you make sure you have some sort of proof that you tried. If you do that, you will have covered yourself for SORNA compliance purposes.

      • Wondering

        When visiting other states/territories, do you suppose you’d be treated like any registrant for the purpose of their registration requirements? You’re not presently required to register in your home state nor anywhere else from what I gather.

        Or, since you’re not actually a registrant presently then when you visit a new state -on vacation and without seeking to move there- you are NOT subject to the registration obligation of an active registrant who visits a different state/territory?

        Would registration apply in your case just if you’re seeking to move? Then what would be the allowable time period to be in a state without being considered ‘moved into’ the new state? I’m sure this varies per state.

        Also, what about a person in my situation -not a registrant at home but still listed for life in my original jurisdiction of Florida per their ‘policy’ but without giving any updates in 24 years since updates are not required per Florida law (nor SORNA) once you leave. Though they refuse to remove ..

        Would I be considered a visiting registrant from another state when visiting another -and thus subject to registration requirements even if I don’t plan to move to the state? Or would registration apply only if I plan to move to a different state and their laws require my registration based on my offense (notwithstanding that 24 years have passed).

        • M C

          @Wondering,. This has been extensively discussed before. It entirely depends on the state. Some states like Florida require you register if you will be there more than (I think?) 3 days regardless of purpose if your offense is similar to their list of registerable offenses even if you are not registered where you came from. Some states have longer periods you can visit without triggering a registration requirement. It’s best to check into that before domestic travel so as not to trigger such requirement. This is especially true for Florida especially for me. If I go more than 3-days there and registered like I was supposed to I I would go on their registry and never come off. My guess is that alot of registrants especially former ones don’t even know that they might or have triggered a registration requirement by traveling. I didn’t know this until the last year and a half or so myself.

        • TS

          This is a great segue to mention this: The Florida Action Committee (a sibling org to ACSOL) wants to press with a lawsuit to address what FLA does to out-of-state residents who have registered in FLA and keeps them registered when when they don’t live in FLA with the hopes they can be removed from the FLA registry through this legal action. Every dollar donated to one of these orgs is important and they are not easy to come by understandably. Each fight is important though regardless of the state fought in.

          (Disclaimer: I have no ties to FAC but since CA, etc have people who have been impacted by this silly FLA law, it needs to be known by as many as possible so it can be challenged. It could also be used in court to challenge other states who keep people registered after they are no longer residents. The current slate of the registry is punishment victories is possibly very applicable to this case.)

      • Wondering

        MC According to the NACSOL attorney who spoke at the 2019 Conference on travel, once you’re off the registry in your home state then the registration requirements that apply to an active registrant visiting another jurisdiction do not apply. He received some pushback after saying this from a fellow panelist but he stuck to his guns on this particular issue.

        Take a look at 24:45 in this video clip-

        And let me know if you heard it the way I interpreted it too.. Thanks.

        • Wondering

          The pushback with the fellow panelist comes at 28:00 in the clip –

          The attorney said that once you achieve nonsupervision then registration laws don’t apply any longer for domestic or international travel..

          And let me know if you heard it the way I interpreted it too.. Thanks.

        • Josh

          I watched the clip and I believe that Chance is dead wrong when it came to the visiting Florida example. Florida law states that ANY conviction in your background regardless of your current status of being a registrant or not in another state is irrelevant. If you were to go to Florida believing you don’t have to register because you don’t have register in say, Michigan and you have interaction with the police and you can’t prove that you’ve been there less then 3 days you’re getting hit with a 3rd degree felony….

        • M C

          @Wondering, I concur with Josh and think that it would be extremely dangerous to travel to any state without first considering what the state law itself actually says. In most cases vacationing in a state will not trigger a registration requirement because one wouldn’t be there long enough to trigger one under their laws. I can say for sure that it does trigger one in Florida. I do believe there are good legal arguments that could have potential invalidate Florida’s requirements as they currently stand but then you must first challenge the law there

        • Pete

          I’m a resident of FL and registered here close to 20 years. As a vacationer, if you are staying longer than 72 hours you are, under FL law, “establishing a temporary residence” and required to register if your offense, when translated to FL laws, would have required you to register under FL law. My advice, vacation elsewhere. FAC wants to file a laswuit on it, but there isn’t a lot of money pouring in to fund a lawsuit that by its very nature doesn’t benefit 99% of FAC members.

        • TS

          According to what’s been discussed, you may have to notify FLA LE before you arrive by 72 hrs. Not sure if that passed into law but was proposed IIRC.

  12. David

    ⭐⭐ Real ID and ETIAS Postponed ⭐⭐
    Implementation of Europe’s ETIAS program has been delayed until late 2022 with a 6 month grace period added.

  13. Ray

    @MLinCA I don’t believe you about Germany. If you want a long term visa to study or work in Germany or other EU country, they’ll request a POLICE CLEARANCE from your home country. Therefore felony sex offenders are excluded. If you can prove otherwise, put the evidence out there. Not some anecdotal youtube video that doesn’t give specifics. I’ve seen a handful of registered sex offenders get on this forum and say they are permanently living in some country overseas but either they don’t tell you where they’re living or their legal path to reach that goal. All countries have a legal path for longterm work, study, and retirement visas and very few countries issue longterm visas without a police clearance from an applicant’s home country. And for citizenship in another country? Your chance of that is even more remote for a person with a felony background, let alone a felony sex offense with a green notice advisory.

    • MLinCA

      Watch all his video’s. If you choose not to believe him then don’t.
      I for one won’t listen to a negative Nancy who posts on this forum who wants people to live in a cave, whether it’s a physical or mental one.

      • Ray

        I’ve been to Europe decades ago, and I’ll watch the rest of your videos when I get the chance, but you have to get real, man. Things change and things are rapidly changing for international felons and sex offenders who want to just lay up in the European Union. The newest hurdle is ETIAS. After that shit goes down after 2022, come back on this forum and tell me your friend with the youtube videos is still telling you the German govt welcomes felons and registered sex offenders to just come live in their country when they can pick a candidate with no criminal record from one of the over 100,000 Syrian refugees

    • M C

      @Ray,. I’m not sure how some do it but in some cases (Europe) you can reclaim European citizenship by your lineage. If your parent was a citizen for example many European countries let you claim citizenship. So, if great grandpa was a citizen even if grandpa was not and he is still alive, he can claim (dual) citizenship first, then once he has, dad can and then finally you. This is a different process from immigration and there are no criminal background requirements.

      • Ray

        And your right, and I get that, some RSOs are 2nd or 3rd generation and have European, Latin American,Asian or whatever international connection, but they are far & few in between and ditto for my ancestry-the closest thing offered is Ghana’s new pathway to citizenship for Americans of African diaspora but if you read the fine print, they dont want anybody with a criminal record. Besides, I wouldn’t want to move to Ghana anyways. I’d rather move to a more developed African country like South Africa or Namibia, but they both require police clearances for longterm visas-but I may have a good shot with Namibia since my offense is legal there. After all, the US gives longterm visas to citizens who commited what’s considered serious offenses in their home country but perfectly legal in America like homosexuality. Now I dont think its right that many African countries(including Namibia) ban the practice, but if they’re willing to overlook my cp offense because our govt overlooks their citizen’s offenses, they might grant me a longterm visa. I just want to finish my parole, take my social security and get the hell out of the US and live out the rest of my life in freedom someplace else.

        • MLinCA

          “….and get the hell out of the US and live out the rest of my life in freedom someplace else.”
          That’s my goal as well, I just don’t need your negative crap while I explore ways to make that happen.

    • NY won’t let go

      I am living in another undisclosed country in Asia.

      As to your question about police check, this applies to Expats and students only here.

      For the spouse visa it is not even a question as they believe that families should be able to live together.

      When they ask for a police record check for citizenship it is for a local police record, not international (as long as you haven’t broken the law locally and you have served your time outside of the country there is no issue)

      I have lived in Germany prior as well and had no issues getting a working visa as well since my conviction wouldn’t have been a crime in Germany and I had served my sentence.

      Many people do not want to disclose where they have moved to whether legally or not because they have finally found that they are being treated like humans

      Additionally this is a public forum where if one over zealous person felt inclined the would try to rip away any kind of happiness we could ever have by trying to institute western ideals in a country where they already had their shit together.

      • JohnDoeUtah

        Any issues getting permanent residence in Germany for a 20 yr old conviction?

        I talked to a German lawyer in the US who helped someone in the past. He said that person was in limbo because they wanted citizenship, but the spent time was 30 years for the crime. But, no issues for permanent residency.

        • Gralphr

          Concerning Germany, a person is better off trying to get a president permit first. In my situation, due to my bachelor’s degree and experience in the IT field, I qualify for a blue card as long as I get a job offer. Once I have the offer, I can work in Germany. After three years or so, I can then put in for permanent residency. Btw. I have been to Germany and personally spoken with the polizei and they had zero problems with me seeking employment there. Their mindset was the conviction was 20 years ago. I should be left alone to live my life.

        • Ray

          Nothing like a good anecdote. Once again, the German govt ain’t going let your average registered sex offender move to their country. Your not average. Most of us dont have fancy degrees, family ties to that country or offenses that happened over 20 years ago (which kind of moots the point because most states let people off the registry by then) I’m just going by the statue of that country as far as felons getting longterm visas to live there (you know how much were about citing laws, statues or facts on this forum) Yes, some people slip thru the cracks every once in a while, but that’s not what I’m talking about. Visiting Germany fine. I’ve visited Germany in the 90s with a felony record. But living there on a longterm visa? Not your average felon registered sex offender will be able to do that, especially after 2022.

        • JohnDoeUtah

          Yes, I have a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and a Master of Engineering in Engineering Management. Got both since my conviction.

          Blue Card?

        • Gralphr

          The Blue card is for the stem field (you would fall under it due to your experience).

          I was told while there by a number of businesses (Robert half, TekSystems, etc.) that I would qualify for it. They generally want you to know so much German, but in certain fields (such as IT), knowing German is waived as long as the company wants you.

    • Gralphr

      Ray, you’re wrong. Concerning Germany, I have been there and personally spoken to the polizei. They knew of my conviction thanks to the Us and after a little meeting they decided I would be allowed in. Especially after they saw my was in 2000 and I’ve been out without parole or probation for 13 years. The guy in the videos is telling the truth. However moving to said place is much easier based on your knowledge of german AND your professional experience.

      • NY won’t let go

        @Ray the average person can also move there if they are married to a citizen.

        But citizenship shouldn’t be the basis for a marriage.

        When I lived and worked there I wasn’t in a fancy IT job, I was just helping out one of my friends at their shop. 🤷‍♂️ They helped me apply for a temporary working permit and luckily most people spoke English because my German sucks😅

        I learned a bit of Dutch when I worked in the Netherlands but I hadn’t lived in Germany since I was a kid.

    • Gralphr

      You don’t know what you’re talking about. I went to Germany earlier this year, partially to speak to some recruiters. I was stopped by the polizei at the airport. Showed them my credentials and resumes and explained why I was Germany and I was released into the country. I also know a convicted murderer who married a German citizen and he currently lives in Germany. I was told by the polizei while there I should be able to go on with my life after a 20 year old conviction. Needless to say I will be going back on a 6 month job seekers visa.

      • A.D.A.T.


        You are correct. To re-iterate this I will refer those questioning to watch “Common sense laws” on youtube. The gentleman is a Florida convicted RSO that travelled to Europe one week before the IML Debacle, but tells of his trials and tribulations while settling in Germany. He has met others who have been met at Customs by German police and were treated with the utmost respect. Again , Europe does not stoop to the level of the U.S. when it comes to past convictions. Their philosophy is “ The past is the past. Now move forward”. Just be honest with them. The respect they give deserves your respect in return.

        • M C

          Im not sure if I’ve noted this on here before (and I’m not sure how ETIAS might change things) but I specifically contacted several EU countries by email (in Schengen area) a few years ago, was completely up front about my record, but did not give info to tell them who I was. I asked them about entry into their country and received a couple of one sentence responses that said “If your country has issued you a valid passport, you will not be denied entry for that reason”.

  14. Wondering

    Thanks all for the input re domestic and intl travel for past offenders not subject to SORNA nor required to register in their own state but still listed in another state for life without updates.

    Despite all the appreciated input, this is still not exactly clear.. it’d be very helpful if the presenters at the next ACSOL conference, whenever they’re able to hold it, could clarify this issue.. esp since the discussion at the 2019 conference on this was murky.

    • Wondering

      An option would be to hire a lawyer to write a legal memo saying the 21-day notice of intended international travel does not apply in my case because SORNA doesn’t any longer apply to me since I’m past my tier 1 term for registration. The memo can cite the pertinent provision of SORNA that pertains to this Notice requirement.

      With the memo I can’t be accused of “knowingly” Disregarding an obligation to provide notice under SORNA.. ?

      • TS


        I have to agree with @M C on MD v FL here in your travel notification situation after thinking overnight on it. You don’t live in Florida but Maryland and are responsible to them which means no travel notification needed. Keep in mind as I said before about keeping paperwork to that effect with you when traveling as backup. IMO, this is a prime reason why the suit by FAC needs to be filed WRT keeping people on after they leave or die is excessive.

    • Interested Party

      It is indeed murky, from reading up on the topic and my personal long legal experience, it’s a very poorly written law which defines sex offender a multitude of ways depending on the various section you are reading.

      I understand wanting to have a clear unambiguous you answer, sadly as we have all experienced as those forced to register, it will take time for court cases to work their way through the legal system for the courts to define what the law really means.

      It’s a bad answer, but it’s really the only way it’s going to come about. Do your best to follow the law as you understand it, if possible get legal advice, and live your life to the best of your ability.

    • Russ

      I have heard a few times on this forum that the new IML pretty much got rid of the loophole where registrants from non sorna states don’t have to give 21 day notices for intl travel. That successful scotus decision in favor of a Kansas man returning from the Philippines caused congress to amend IML. Now as far as no longer being required to register in your conviction state, but still being required to register in a non conviction state youbriefly stepped foot or lived in and registered, I’m not sure either. But I do know the sorna vs non-sorna state issue regarding giving a 21 day notice has pretty much been resolved through the IML amendment.

      • M C

        @Russ, this is true if the person is still registered in the non-SORNA state and the state remits the 21 day notice to US Marshal. Not all non-SORNA states will send this. For example, Minnesota at least last I heard does not take these notices. Further, if you are no longer required to register because the non-SORNA state’s registration period is shorter than AWA/SORNA registration period you still might be under SORNA but have no one to accept the notice even when if you were registered they could have taken it.

        • Wondering

          If I were to notify my residence state of Maryland of my travel plans, where my offense is not a covered offense, I’m afraid they might tell me to file the notice through Florida, which after all is where I’m listed because they never remove once listed. I’d be afraid that Florida would then update my listing with my current Maryland address..

          In which case I’ll really have to decide if I’m willing to chance skipping this Notice step on the grounds that my Tier 1 term of federal registration has elapsed and this particular SORNA provision doesn’t apply to me as SORNA reads (the penalty provision for noncompliance is based on being required by SORNA to register).

        • M C

          @Wondering, If you were Tier I and elapsed, I don’t really see how you would be required to give the 21 day notice. You may still be green noticed though when you travel. You can’t be required to give a notice to FL. FL doesn’t have jurisdiction over you in MD to require such things so if MD and Fed don’t require it I wouldn’t worry about it.

        • NY won’t let go


          Not sure if Florida is I’m the same as NY as NY still makes you update them anytime you move or anything even if you no longer live in the country.

          My lawyer is currently going to file for a level reduction in hopes that they say they don’t have jurisdiction and therefore don’t have jurisdiction to keep me on their registry as my offense wasn’t from there originally.

          I haven’t lived in the country for years now and have no intention of returning.

          I’m hoping it all comes out well, but with Cuomo as the governors I know it may not

        • M C

          @NY won’t let go. I don’t think NY has the jurisdiction to make you keep your information updated or provide travel notices if you refuse to do so and never go back to the state. Doesn’t mean you would not be listed on their registry or mean they can’t try enforcing their registry requirements including arrest warrants, extradition etc. Also, refusal to provide to NY doesn’t mean you meet the federal obligations of SORNA it seems if you are still subject to that you might have other issues if you don’t update at least somewhere especially if you travel back to the US ever.

        • NY won’t let go

          @MC the federal website doesn’t show any information except my name because I don’t live in US Jurisdiction. It just says out of country. If I were to be removed from the state registry my name wouldn’t show on the fed one even.

          New York claims that if I do not update them they will issue a felony warrant and extradite me.

          Somehow the state has more power than the feds in NY.

          Unlike most states NY (like Florida) keeps you in their registry when you move out of the country. Except NY also asks that you keep all your information up to date. Which makes no sense as it’s supposed to “protect the community”

          How does it protect the community showing an out of country address?

  15. Musafa

    Question about Canada: I heard that Canada, like many commonwealth countries, has a criminal rehabilitation admission system that allows for “spent convictions” to be based on 10 years after completion of sentence, but what if we’re still on the registry after that? Has anyone on the registry been able to get into Canada 10 after the completion of their sentence? Or does Canada (like Britain) have a blanket ban on registered sex offenders entering the country? No matter how far back they completed their sentence.

    • Mike G


      “Britain [has] a blanket ban on registered sex offenders entering the country”

      Where did you find this information about the “blanket ban”? I haven’t been able to find anything about it in their visa requirements or their “spent” convictions requirements. Were you turned away from UK even though your conviction was spent, or do you know someone who was? Do you have a link to an article or something?

      I have a trip planned to UK in October and was told that since my conviction was “spent” I wouldn’t have any problem.

      Thanks for your time!

      • TS

        @Mike G

        Who told you it was spent? Did you research this with someone, e.g. immigration atty, in the UK to ensure you’ll be allowed in?


        You can ask a Canadian immigration lawyer to help you but everything we have discussed here and seen online, you most likely won’t into the great white north with your conviction regardless of the time in the rear view mirror.

        • Mike G


          I first investigated the information on the UK websites, which indicated that my conviction would easily be “spent”. Then I called the UK Consulate office in San Francisco. I asked to speak to a Visa officer and I assume that is who I was connected to. I told him I had a felony conviction but wanted to visit the UK. He asked how long I was incarcerated, and how long ago it was. He said my conviction would be considered “spent”. He didn’t ask the nature of the conviction, and I didn’t volunteer it. He said I would have to send a verified copy of my criminal record with my visa application.

        • M C

          @TS The UK immigration laws are readily available online. You may read them here:

          In the UK a spent conviction for a citizen of the UK is the mostly the same as that of non citizen trying to enter the country with a foreign conviction. You can be a RSO convicted the UK whereby you must still register but yet you are considered not convicted of a crime because it is spent. Paragraph 320 specifies admissibility for previously convicted persons.

          Just because a conviction is spent doesn’t mean you are guaranteed admissibility however but it does improve your chances significantly.

          They can still deny you even if spent as follows:

          (18B) in the view of the Secretary of State:
          (a) the person’s offending has caused serious harm; or
          (b) the person is a persistent offender who shows a particular disregard for the law.
          (19) The immigration officer deems the exclusion of the person from the United Kingdom to be conducive to the public good. For example, because the person’s conduct (including convictions which do not fall within paragraph 320(2)), character, associations, or other reasons, make it undesirable to grant them leave to enter.

          That is a judgement call typically the immigration officer can make however and is not a blanket rule.

        • M C

          Mike G, are you applying for a visa then?

        • Musafa

          Thank you TS. That’s what I thought,but I’ve seen just about all of Canada over many years before my conviction. I’ve been to every province besides New Brunswick, PEI or Newfoundland.

        • TS


          There was a gent from WA State on here late last year who was working to be able to get back into Canada and detailed much of his work to date which included an immigration atty helping him.

          @Mike G

          Thanks for sharing you went to the consulate in SF for more answers just than what is posted online, which may or may not be updated for all to read (but people forced to register must know regardless). Hope you can get your visa then (if you are applying for one) with the specs of your paperwork shared in applying. Will be interesting to hear of your further steps and specs shared (as comfortable), the outcome(s), and your ability to travel to UK.

          @M C

          Thanks. I am familiar with the online verbiage posted, which hopefully is the latest and greatest people need to know. Knowing @Mike G asked the consulate is key in learning more than what is posted and a step further. Just because he asked the consulate, that does not mean it is correct either by the answer given (people can be off). I don’t recall if anyone here has ever asked the consulate, but his doing so is helpful.

        • Mike G

          @M C

          I will be applying for a UK visa, but not for a couple of months, since my planned trip is in October.

          I have some additional experiences/opinions regarding the UK and Canada which I will post as soon as I have a little more time.

      • Musafa

        @Mike G You must be new to this forum. If you had followed it, for years it’s been pretty much established that American registrants who have traveled to the UK are nearly ALWAYS turned around from there. Even if they’re just changing planes, registrants have been sent back to the good ole USA. In fact, now when you hear registrants on this forum speak on European trips, most often they talk about AVOIDING Great Britain. And if you get the bright ideal of doing a land (its really a tunnel) crossing, that won’t work either, at least I believe it won’t work because I haven’t heard on this forum of any registrant successfully completing one. The UK does have a sex offender registry, although not as draconian as ours. Another thing, Ireland is off limits too but the rest of Europe, you’ll be fine. It’s a real possibility that Scotland will vote to secede from Britain because the Scots are real pissed off over Brexit. If the Scots secede and join the EU, the Scots may start letting registrants in but no guarantee. Scotland could end up following Ireland’s policy of banning registered sex offender foreign travelers. Also check out the travel matrix put out by RTAG.

        • M C

          @Musafa, We have established that RSOs get turned away from the UK but the question regarding being sent away when a conviction is spent is not well established. I’ve asked this question before myself and nobody knows. There just isn’t enough self reported data that answers this question. We do know if the conviction is not spent and they know of it they will not let you in. We also know if you are not green noticed that typically won’t check convictions even though they have access to the FBI database unless they have reason to suspect something. I think it’s highly likely if you are green noticed you will get turned away unless you have been successful at getting a visa.

        • Notorious D.I.K.ennerly

          M.C., regarding “We also know if you are not green noticed that typically won’t check convictions.” Do we really know this? I ask because the U.K. was refusing entry to “sex offenders” LONG before any of the pre-iML and post-IML alerts began being sent by the U.S. Because they had access to all U.S. criminal records, they have been refusing entry for well over a decade. I was aware of them doing this within a year or two after 9/11 which is why I stopped going there and why I was sweating bullets that IBC (International Broadcast Congress) was talking about moving their annual show from A’dam to London.The Five Eyes, (U.S., U.K., Australia, New Zealand and Canada) were giving a proto-IML scheme a test run for a long time before IML. It was the model used for IML.

        • M C

          @Nororious, I can’t tell you about after IML but I traveled to the UK two times while even still on probation in 2009 and 2010. I had no issues getting in except they asked me to prove I had a return ticket (different airline there and back) and that I had enough funds to cover my cost to stay in the country for the two weeks I was there. I even had a travel permit with me from my probation officer (which would actually probably get me turned away if they saw it).

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          M.C., That’s great that you were able to get in but there were others who were not. I’m not surprised when these policies tend to be enforced haphazardly, though. It’s pretty typical of government.

    • M C

      @Musafa, From what I understand for Canada it depends on what your conviction was rather than a blanket ban on SO’s. Canada has something similar to a felony and a misdemeanor but it’s called something else. The issue you run into is that regardless of the level of your offense, Canada will consider you having been convicted of the worst level possible for admissibility. I haven’t researched this with other SO’s but if the offense involves a minor your max punishment is typically more than 10 years which makes you inadmissable permanently. That said Canada has two potential ways to workaround this. You can apply for a temporary resident permit or you can apply to be deemed rehabilitated. There are alot of factors that come into play for either of these two workarounds and there is no guarantee either would be granted. If you are deemed rehabilitated it removes the permanent inadmissibility restriction unless you commit a new offense. That application process is expensive unfortunately.

      • Russ

        @Notorius I think his point is he got in before IML and the green notices. There’s nothin random or haphazard about getting into Great Britain now. If you’re still on the hit list, you’re just not getting in.

        • M C

          @Russ,. that is more than likely because even if the conviction is otherwise spent they are denying you on a different basis because of the green notice. If you are someone who will likely be green noticed but the conviction is otherwise spent I would suggest applying for a Visa. It’s worth noting that the UK green notices their traveling registrants as well but supposedly stops doing this when the conviction is spent at least according to the forum I occasionally read that is specifically for UK citizens. Their registrants are still going to Mexico with no issues when their convictions are spent as long as they didn’t attempt to do so before it was spent and get turned away. Even if they have to still register, at least the UK doesn’t try to block their travel for really old convictions.

    • Jax

      @NY It wouldn’t matter what governor is in power. The same state registry policies will get passed on unless some ground shaking court decision hits the state or some great reformer to the registry governor gets in office-that ain’t going to happen. Besides, if you don’t live in NY anymore, I don’t see why you worry about it. You gave your 21 day notice-I hope. So your obligation to keep updating info should have ended right there. If you return to the US, just go to another state and register there if you have to. Its not like the us marshalls are going to come grab you overseas or in some other state in the union just because you haven’t been updating your email account or home address with a state you no longer live in. We’ve talked about this issue many times on this forum especially regarding the state of Floriduh.

      • NY won’t let go

        I worry about it because we have google here. And if you type my name my home address pops up here.

        I left the US because I was tired of people trying to kill me for being on a list.
        I’ve been shot at multiple times and had my house set on fire. And I don’t want that happening here.

        Unlike Florida, NY has already told me if I do not I will be extradited on a felony warrant.

        And although my current country hates the US they still have an extradition treaty.

        So I do have concerns

        • M C

          @NY won’t let go, yes I see a problem there. I suspect you would have a very good argument if you are not required to register under SORNA but NY still wants the registration updated that they lack jurisdiction because they would be charging you with a crime you didn’t actually commit in that state because you failed to register when you weren’t within it’s borders. Federal reach seems much broader. Nichols v. United States decided this but then they went ahead and carefully reworded SORNA based on that decision. Of course that is federal and not state. Unfortunately there’s probably no way to test the NY jurisdictional issue without first getting extradited which is also what you do not want to do and of course winning on that argument isn’t a guarantee at all.

        • NY Won’t let go


          I’m just hoping the courts are able to open back so that my lawyer can file the motion/suit.

          The pandemic there should be even more reason why they should quit wasting money tracking people who don’t live there.

  16. David

    🇬🇧 Great Britain 🇬🇧 A couple years ago, I had booked a flight to Europe that was going to have a brief layover in Dublin. I made many phone calls and sent many emails and finally was able to directly contact the head of Irish Border Police at the Dublin International Airport. I was told that, ultimately, the decision was up to the individual border agent as to whether I would be allowed to continue on to Europe or would be sent back to the United States. (Unwilling to take that risk of a ruined vacation, I booked a different flight that took me directly to Europe.)

    • Russ

      @MC That’s good info especially the part about getting a visa, although for me it would be a long wait because I have 3 years left on supervision topped with another 10 years of spent time, that’s if Britain combines incarceration and supervision into one completed sentence. Besides, if I wait that long to travel abroad, I rather skip Britain for another commonwealth country like Canada or New Zealand, where my pc offense only warrants a fine, so theres a greater chance of getting in the kiwi nation.

  17. FR

    Here’s a potentially significant and helpful segment from a SCOTUS holding interpreting SORNA, from the Nichols case.

    Might this holding snippet (below) resolve the issue of whether registrants who move out of states that fail to remove them from the registry, and are not required to register in their new State, nonetheless continue to be “Registrants” in for SORNA/IML purposes?

    We have had questions here on this from people who have left Florida long ago, for example, and are not presently required to register in their new jurisdiction -and whether on the basis of Florida continuing to list them they might nonetheless be considered to still be “registrants” under SORNA. This holding snippet would appear to resolve that in favor of not falling under the category of “registrant” for the purpose of federal IML and the Notice of Travel provision.

    “The Government resists [this] straightforward reading of the statutory text, arguing instead that once an offender registers in a jurisdiction, “that jurisdiction necessarily remains ‘involved pursuant to subsection (a),’ because the offender continues to appear on its registry as a current resident.” Brief for United States 24. But §16913(a) lists only three possibilities for an “involved” jurisdiction: “where the offender resides, where the offender is an employee, and where the offender is a student.” Notably absent is “where the offender appears on a registry.” We decline the Government’s invitation to add an extra clause to the text of §16913(a). As we long ago remarked in another context, “[w]hat the government asks is not a construction of a statute, but, in effect, an enlargement of it by the court, so that what was omitted, presumably by inadvertence, may be included within its scope. To supply omissions transcends the judicial function.” Iselin v. United States, 270 U. S. 245, 251 (1926) . Just so here.”

    • E @ FR and AJ/others

      Thanks for posting this. Really interesting. I’d read Nichols before but overlooked that tidbit.

      AJ and similarly well-informed folks, how would you see this clause as being useful in challenging not just states like FL that keep people on but don’t require ongoing updates, but especially the insanity of NY and WI, the two states that require ongoing registration even after moving out of state? Any thoughts on this?

      • NY won’t let go

        Not sure how this would apply in NY.

        They said they omitted the part of leaving the state or country and deregistering people on purpose so they could keep them on 😅 and somehow this supersedes federal law

        Will ask my lawyer what they think

  18. FR

    This just in out of Florida. According to this holding, those of us from out of state who left Florida on probation after being sentenced shouldnt have been placed on the registry in the first place?

    Accordingly IML would not apply, nor much of SORNA -assuming there’s no separate State requirement to register on the basis of live/work/study.

    .. according to this holding “sex offenders” don’t go on the registry in Florida until AFTER they are released from supervision and all sanctions.

    This could indeed be huge, if I’m reading this correctly.

    Here’s the case –

    • PK

      That’s strange he doesn’t pay his court fine, so he is not considered a sex offender until this fine has been fulfilled?

      • FR

        That’s right ..

        No doubt they’ll modify the law to prevent this.

        Question I have is, if they’re forced in the interim to remove out of state ”sex offenders” who were placed on the registry before they left Florida on probation, what authority would they have to put them back on the registry given that they’re outside of Florida at this point.

      • Josh

        Makes you wonder how fast the Florida legislature will shut this loophole down….I’d bet any amount of money that Lauren Book is drafting that bill as we speak…..

  19. Wondering

    I consulted my situation with a Florida attny specializing in SOR matters and he said that I do NOT owe the Feds this 21-day notice because the statute in effect says that the Notice provision under IML doesnt apply to individuals not required under SORNA to register. Since my offense is Tier 1, my SORNA registration obligation ended in 2015 -15 years after my release from sanction. I had thought that my SORNA term has ended back in 2008 with credit for having a clean record, but this lawyer said I didn’t qualify for this credit because I never underwent sex ofender treatment as the provision requires. (The State psych doctor who evaluated me concluded I wasn’t a candidate for this treatment).

    However, if you’re still required to register in your home state or another state that requires you to actively maintain your registration info current, then check with them about this requirement.

    In my case, since I live in Maryland and my Florida offense is not a covered offense in MD, I’m not required to notify any entity of my international travel plans. Florida, the lawyer said, does NOT have continuing jurisdiction over me and so I shouldn’t try to notify them.

    I feel very very fortunate that at least I get this break.

    Wondering still if I’ll get the “X” upon my return stateside … And have to go through Secondary screening. Hope not but since I still appear on the NATIONAL registry because Florida won’t remove me, this is a possibility it seems to me.

    (I’m currently exploring options to be removed from Florida with this attorney .. he said I should consider taking a psycho sexual evaluation to support a petition for removal. Agh).

    I appreciate everyone’s help and support!

    • TS

      Again, this brings to mind the FAC lawsuit they want file for registrants who live outside Fla…

    • Mike G


      Congratulations on being exempt from the 21-day notice. Since you aren’t required to register, you shouldn’t be subject to IML which is the federal law requiring the 21-day notice.

      The people you may need to be concerned about, however, are Satan Watch (sorry, I can’t bring myself to call them angel watch). In my experience, their main source of information for sending out warning notices is airline manifests. By all rights, since you don’t have to register, they should leave you alone, but since you are still on the national registry, they might use that as an excuse to send a notice. Keep in mind, they were sending out warning notices before IML even existed.

      I don’t know how easy it is to contact those people, but it might be worth while for you or your lawyer to try to get a commitment out of them that they will leave you alone when you go ahead with international travel.

      • Tuna

        OTOH, if he isnt on their radar at the moment, it may not be wise to poke the bear.

        • Wondering

          I’m just going to Spain, when this virus finally dies down. So not concerned about Green Notices at the moment (for Spain). Maybe I’ll drive to France from Spain too.

          Would love to visit Mexico beaches at some point.. Will have to see about that.

          Thanks again,

  20. James I

    Dear Wondering:

    I drove Northern Spain, France and the Pyrenees a couple of years ago…I thought of posting the fun little travel video…but probably not my best idea of the day. Let me say instead…N. Spain, S. France, Pyrenees, Fabulous beyond compare, (to me).

    If in Barcelona, try to get down to Terragona, the actual ancient capital of Roman Spain, nicer than Barcelona, again to me, only 60 miles to the South. I had low expectations for this trip, (ex wife had a bad break up with someone and asked me to come help her run her restaurant…when done with that headed north) drove along France from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic, strangely loved Lourdes where I stopped by accident but then joined the procession of the sick and lame for healing….God knows I could use some healing…lol.

    In any case, the ancient kingdoms of Aragon and Castile, just great as was the Atlantic coast.

    Your trip will be different than mine, of course, but freely wander to discover whatever if you can…the area will not disappoint…oh, be sure to hit Carcassonne in S. France…Stunning!

    Best Wishes, James I

    • Wondering

      You should write a blog – that sounds spectacular and something to consider. I was thinking of visiting Valencia and staying on the coast about a week, then from there ferrying to the little islands (Ibiza and Mallorca). Eventually driving to Alicante in the South and spending a day or two before returning to Valencia again and then driving north to Barcelona and from there possibly to Marseille France. My father had ancestors from Mallorca.

      Did you encounter any problems due to IML in your travels?

      Thanks for your feedback.

      • Mike G


        Interesting that you are headed to Spain. We also have a trip planned there in October (pending virus resolution).
        In addition to Madrid, we are planning to go to Valencia, Peniscola, Zaragoza, Segovia, San Sebastian, Pamplona, and also Barcelona, though we have been there before. We also plan to make a quick stop in the country of Andorra; (we’ve also been to Marseille, France).
        I don’t know much about Ibiza and Mallorca, though I’ve heard Mallorca has a great beach. How far off the coast are they? How long a ferry ride is it?
        Hope things work out for all of us!

        • Jackson

          @Mike Back in 2020 when I was still living at home in Inglewood, I had money to burn and decided to go to a friend’s cousin’s wedding in Vallodid Spain. But I flew solo to Paris first before joining my friends in Spain. A week later I took the Eurolines down to Madrid which took 14 hours from Paris. The next morning I caught a Spanish rail into Vallodid only to find out the bride & groom in their hotel telling me the wedding is over and my friend & his family are in Madrid getting ready to fly back to Cali. Now remember cell phones weren’t readily available back then and the biggest problem was I didn’t know a lick of Spanish and hardly any Spaniards spoke English. At the small empty train platform in Vallodid, I took it upon myself to brush my teeth and shave in the restroom. Two cops came inside speaking Spanish probably wondering what the hell is this black guy doing. They quickly figured out I was American but I couldn’t figure out what they were sayin and they couldn’t figure out what I was saying. Lucky for me, a security guard came in and he knew French. I know French so the guard interpreted for me and once the cops knew I was in town for a wedding I’d missed, they were laughing and patting me on the shoulder before going about there business. Everything went well from there on. I shortly reunited with my friends in Madrid & after they flew back to Cali, I was on my own. My first challenge was finding a cheap room. I met this beautiful German girl at the train station. She spoke Spanish and took me around in search of a room. Luckily we found a pension where owned by an old lady who was eager to rent me a room for $9 a day. It was very clean with shared bathrooms. I had to say goodbye to my Germam friend who had a train to catch back home to Munich. Two days later I caught a bullet train to Valencia. Another thing, Spanish women are very flirty like the woman who sat beside me on the train. I didn’t know what she was saying but I do know body language. Valencia was nice and people were friendly to me like they all have been while I was in Spain. In Valencia, I walked into a restaurant and the owners just welcomed me. I had a three course meal for only 6 us dollars. This was before the euro and the us dollar was strong against the local currency. I traveled cheap on local buses. San Sebatianwas fabalous, the food and clubbing was great. I bought a six pack of locale bottled beer for a 1.60 and dranked it on the bus to Barcelona. The Spanish dont give a shit. Barcelona was nice but the air pollution and graffiti was a turn off. You’ll enjoy Spain but I’ll probbly won’t be able to go back again with ETIAS coming up. The worst decision of my life was to move to shithole wisconsin and serve time for an offense that would have been a fine in Spain. But I wish you well on your trip.

        • Mike G


          Wow, what an experience! That is certainly a memorable trip with all kinds of issues to overcome, but sounds like you did okay! Thanks for sharing that. I’m afraid I’m too old now for that kind of excitement, drama, and unknowns – plus pretty much all my travel nowadays is with my wife, and she won’t put up with that kind of uncertainty! Every aspect of our trips has to be nailed down and organized before we leave home.

          I know what you mean about bad decisions, too. I’m still in denial that what I did was even a crime, let alone a felony. I’m sure it wouldn’t have been in most any other country in the world, but after 25 years, I really shouldn’t dwell on it.

          I think I heard that ETIAS has been postponed until 2023, so maybe we still have some time…

    • jm from wi

      I love the area too. The painted caves near Tarascon sur Ariege are interesting and the mountains are picturesque. San Sebastian is my favorite beach town in basque country (great dining). Spanish Atlantic beaches are clean.
      Burgos is an old city, interesting stop, close to Atapuerca the oldest and most complete early hominid archeological site in Europe. My next trip to Europe will include Bilbao (never been there). —- unless James1 says its not worth it.

  21. James I

    I think that Wondering’s journey to Valencia, Ibiza and Mallorca sound’s just fine. One of my regrets of my time in Spain was never being able to make it south of Zaragoza, and not seeing Valencia, etc. I think Mike G will have a great time also…mostly because he seems to have a good attitude towards all of the pluses and minuses of traveling.

    I have travel most everywhere, but especially in Latin America, 100 times in Mexico, trips to Costa Rica, Guatemala, Colombia, 20 times in Brazil, twice in Argentina, etc….and so I reluctantly went to Spain thinking of it being a re-hashed version of where I’ve been south of the US border….and it wasn’t, not at all, it was…for me, magical…maybe because I had such low expectations.

    This is not to disparage Latin America, and I deeply miss the generous people and wonderful times I’ve had there…and deeply, deeply resent my ability to Re-visit being curtailed, but it it what it is is. I comply. Sigh….

    Still, I had to admit that Spain was not at all like Latin America…if only to be able to stand in a foggy wind in the high mountain pass where the Battle of Roncevaux Pass took place (824 AD)…Where Roland fell in ambushed battle, one of f Charlemagne’s main captains, (see Song of Roland).

    Hearing the wolves calling and howling in the distance….shivers down my spine.

    Only travel can give you accidental but amazing experiences like this.

    Just a note to Wondering…take a simple snorkeling kit with you…easy enough, a mask, snorkel and light water shoes…the water may be good or bad in Ibiza and Mallorca, but you won’t know unless you can get under the surface…try it, its fun.

    Best Wishes, James I

    • Mike G

      @James I

      Thanks much for sharing some of your vast travel knowledge! You are always a good source of information.

      I have not been anywhere in South America, though my son lived in Brazil for two years. I also have been to Mexico over 100 times, I own property there, and I have permanent residency (green card?) in Mexico.

      I’m not sure how representative Barcelona is to the rest of Spain, but Barcelona was quite different from the places I’ve been to in Mexico, and the short visits I’ve had to Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and Panama. The people are nice and helpful in all those places, but Europe, especially Western Europe, seems to be a little more advanced socioeconomically.

      I also deeply resent not being able to travel at will, but I’m sure it’s especially hard for you, James, not being able to revisit the places you know and love.

      • Will Allen

        I enjoy reading the travel experiences. Someone needs to start a “green book” like existed for Jim Crow. Perhaps some good money to be made there. Personally, I use the Registries to hire people/businesses. I avoid people/businesses who think Registries are acceptable. It would be cool to have a nice, all-in-one reference to use.

        I more than “deeply resent” this travel harassment. Domestic travel as well. I view it as nothing more than illegal harassment by a bunch of immoral criminals. The harassments are just acts of war. I’m going to treat anyone who thinks they are acceptable as an anti-American, criminal enemy combatant and terrorist. A “person” who simply cannot mind their own business or leave other people alone.

        Those kinds of “people” are the real danger in America today. I’m done with them and their huge nanny big governments. They want to control where some people can travel. They want to control just about everything else they can as well. What substances you can put into your own body. Abortions. What else? I’m done with them and all of their control freak problems. As long as Registries exist, they must pay consequences.

  22. Wondering

    Can we go to Rusia?

    To St Maarten in the Caribbean? I believe St Maarten is officially Dutch.


    • Notorious D.I.K.ennerly

      Russia, no. They passed a bill explicitly barring “sex offenders” from entering some years ago.

  23. James I

    Dear Wondering:

    I believe that both the Dutch and French Caribbean is open to RSO’s in the same way that Tahiti, French Polynesia, is open to us.

    However, a serious caution, I do not know anyone, or any report, that the above is true at the present time. Someone needs test this to be certain. The RTAG Matrix says this advice is good….but I’d like to see something current.

    I have my eyes on Bonaire….but no one will know for sure until someone tries these areas of the Caribbean.

    I was supposed to leave for Sicily yesterday and would have been in Rome today except for this damned Coronavirus. FWIW, (not much), but this pandemic has me a little freaked out…I have several underlying conditions….so I am more concerned than most maybe. I think I’ll travel again soon, but my life is acceptable as it is now…so, I don’t know. How much risk am I willing to take on? Could I really being traveling to Italy every three months just to get out of this damned United States? All difficult questions.

    But I wish you well.

    James I

    • Wondering

      Thank you James. I’d suggest staying put for now to be safe. It won’t be too long before we can get out and about again..

      Not too long Before it’s “yesterday once more.”

      BTW, I believe that entry into Russia would not be an issue if a Green Notice were not sent out..

      Thanks again James. I wish you well too! Let’s stay positive in outlook and live life and look forward. I really believe that courts are smarting to these states unconstitutional constraints on our lives, including the Registry itself. Even in Florida we are seeing a slew of cases in which courts are siding with registrants.. Let’s stay hopeful!

      • Notorious D.I.K.ennerly

        I don’t agree. Russia passed a law years ago forbidding entry to foreign “sex offenders.” Regardless of “green notices,” the data is available to them to know your status.

        • M C

          @Nortious, do you have a source for this information? The only thing I can find is a proposed law in 2013 that denies entry to anyone who has been convicted of sex with a child for 50 years from the date of conviction. I can’t find anything about whether or not this became law nor what their definition of a child is for purposes of this law.

          Otherwise, Russia requires a visa to visit and the application asks about the date of any arrests or criminal convictions though from what I have heard there isn’t a blanket ban on convictions if you answer in the affirmative.

          From what I understand, the visa application or green notice are the only ways the Russians would know of such a conviction. They even admitted as much when this law was proposed. However, it would probably be a bad idea to lie on a visa application.

        • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

          M.C., I’m afraid that I don’t remember any details on the Russian law passed a number of years ago nor was I able to find out anything from Google. I only remember that they banned “foreign pedophiles” from entering. Keep in mind that Russia has its own pedo-hysteria going on that is possibly even worse than here.

          As for how they find out, barring a Green Notice? I would say that they have databases which are fully capable of scraping U.S. Megan’s Law websites, among other sources. Governments put considerable resources into these databases and buy, sell and trade data to make them useful.

  24. Wondering

    @ M C Thanks – I also saw the article about the proposed ban on SO traveling to Russia but I didn’t find anything on whether the proposal was actually adopted. I’d love to visit St Petersburg next spring provided the COVD situation allows..

    Wondering about something else .. recently we had a discussion here of whether someone who’s listed in the state of original charge but not in the home state, and whose federal registration term has elapsed per their tier, was still required to provide the 21-Day Notice of intended travel per SORNA. I contacted a Fla attny who specializes in SOR matters, and he said there’s no federal Notice requirement because my tier term has elapsed. The only question is whether my State might separately require this notice, and the answer in my case is no because my Florida offense is not a covered registry offense in my home state of Maryland.

    But now the question that I have is whether I should still expect to go through “secondary” upon arrival back in Baltimore. Keep in my that I’m still listed in Florida, for life unless we win our removal petition which we are making this summer after my 20-year anniversary from the end of court sanctions (probation and fine). And I wonder if on this Florida “revenge listing” basis alone I’d still be flagged to go through secondary, or whether perhaps the secondary screening applies only if you’re still under Federal SORNA required to register..

    This would all be moot if we win my petition this summer, but I’ve learned not to get my hopes up on most things in life let alone SOR matters..

    Also, as I mentioned I’m hoping to travel to Spain 🇪🇸 next February, and suddenly I’m feeling like flying from Spain to a Greek island since it wouldn’t be too long a flight and the fares are very low. What if I don’t decide on this until after I’m in Spain? And then book the flight to Greece while I’m out in Spain.. And then fly back home to Balt directly from Greece.. wondering if there might be any red flags to consider with this.

    My thought on the above scenario of flying to Greece from Spain is that it won’t pose an issue with regard to SORNA because I’m past the Notice requirement, just like in the case of my original trip from BWI to Valencia… but what about the Green Notice to Greece? I believe it’s been mentioned here that Green Notices are triggered for flights originating from the USA..

    Thanks as always..

  25. CB in Europe

    I’m looking info permanent residency in European countries and wonder about implications of IML and 21-day notice. Forget the specifics of long term residency and just assume for argument sake that I now have permanent residency in Germany or similar country. If I live over there permanently, but still have to register in US if I go back, can I freely travel from Germany (my new home) to France, Belgium, and other places or do I have to give 21 day notice back in US? It would seem kind of silly because I would be taking train, bus, or car and wouldn’t be showing passport or going through any border checkpoints? Just wondering what the requirements would be? Thanks

    • David

      When I have traveled to France recently, I have noted on my 21-day advanced travel notification that “I may also visit Italy for a day trip”. I leave it at that, nothing more. Perhaps you could do something similar, stating that you may also visit Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, etc. and specify whatever long time period you find reasonable. Then simply renew that notification every 6 months. That way, you have in fact notified them that you may be visiting those countries but you simply do not know when or for how long.

  26. CB

    I’ve been looking into the possibility of getting permanent residency in a European country and have a question. Many, if not all countries, require some kind of criminal record check as part of the application process for long term residency. Does anyone have any direct knowledge about how someone with a felony sex offense (10 years ago) would fare in the process. Many stories have been told about how European countries will still let us in as visitors, but what about long term residents? Obviously there are work visas, retirement visas, and various others, but most seem to require the police report. Please, any stories or direct info would be appreciated. I contacted one country and asked about it and of course they said they couldn’t comment without all the details and a full application. Thanks

    • Mike G


      There have been several anecdotal posts regarding Schengen countries, especially Germany, saying that the criminal check which is performed only looks at criminal records within the EU.
      It seems unlikely to me that European countries (other than the UK) have direct access to the USA criminal database (NCIC), though they could check with Interpol. I suppose that these “green notices” that everyone talks about could work against you. Depending on which country, you can initially spend from 90 days to a year without a visa, I have heard. If you find an amenable employer, I’m sure they will go to bat for you to help get a work visa.
      Again, I’ve heard that most European countries that hear how we are treated in the US think it is draconian and ridiculous.
      I wish you well in your endeavor.

      • CB

        Thank you for the response. Just to clarify a few things. When visiting, it has been well documented that European countries do not turn us away when we arrive at the border. When applying for a longer term visa or residency, many, if not all Schengen countries require that we provide a criminal history report from my home country as part of the application. I believe it was the Netherlands that requires a document stating that I have no criminal record at all. I have noticed that a few other countries do the same. I contacted them with further questions about the process and they couldn’t provide anything useful. I found someone’s blog in which they summarized their residency application process and the lawyer they used to facilitate the process insisted they provide a statement that they have no criminal record. All this suggests that when it comes to longer term residency, Europe may not be as forgiving. Of course the only way to find out is to go through the process myself, but I was hoping that someone in our situation who had been through the process could shed some light. I appreciate any insight that others may have. Thanks

        • Mike G


          I’m guessing that you have probably seen the series of YouTube videos from the guy with a serious criminal history, including sex charges, who took off to Germany without giving any notice, and was welcomed there with no problems, even when his new employer found out about his background from some website that likes to put our mugshots out to shame us.

          If you haven’t seen them, just search YouTube for his page called “Common Sense Laws”.

          Granted, this is only one person, and only one country, but it does give hope to those of us who look forward to leaving this country.

  27. Need2Know

    ‘See This Empty Cage Now Corrode’: The International Human Rights and Comparative Law Implications of Sexually Violent Predator Laws

    This paper will proceed in the following manner. In Part I, we will consider the implications of international human rights law for cases involving the populations in question, and then assess how realistic it is that such law be embraced by domestic jurisdictions in dealing with relevant cases. We will also consider the human rights issues and violations that have resulted from the domestic enactment of “International Megan’s Law.” In Part II, we will apply comparative law, in an effort to determine how other nations have struggled with some of the basic issues that have been focused on by domestic jurisdictions, for the 20+ years since the Supreme Court’s decision in Kansas v. Hendricks, 521 U.S. 346 (1997). In Part III, we will assess the application of therapeutic jurisprudence (TJ) to the legal and human rights issues discussed prior, in an effort to determine whether other nations have more successfully implemented TJ principles to combat some of the seemingly-intractable problems raised in SVPA cases. In part IV, we offer some conclusions and some suggestions for US-based policy-makers in this contentious area of law and social policy.

    • James J

      I was on the California 290 registration until about 6 years ago when I applied for and was granted a Certificate of Rehabilitation in California. This reduced my crime to a misdemeanor and my record was expunged, Surprisingly, I found I was still on the 290 registry and required to “check in” annually. We have since moved to Washington, State and I am again required to register though here they have a scale of from 1 to 4. One being lowest risk and I am in the one category. My wife and I are planning to immigrate, ( I qualify for an Irish passport ) move to Ireland from WA State, USA ( my ancestral home ) in the very near future. Will this impact my ability to move to Ireland and travel internationally? Any information, thoughts, suggestions will be much appreciated and very helpful.
      Thanks so much.

      • James I

        Dear James;

        I cannot think of anything more important

        • James I

          I’m sorry..had to take a call and got distracted…full comment was:

          Dear James;

          I cannot think of anything more important..this is like owning a golden coin…possible Irish citizenship though your parents or other relatives…the whole EU open to you with the best passport in the world…what’s not to love?

          Getting there, seeing this through with finesse…you need an Irish lawyer…not just a good one, but one you actually have rapore with…you will need subtlety…not saying anything demonstrably wrong, but a little shading might, or might not, help your bid…and you will not know these things. (but remember, more than a good lawyer, you need one you can honestly work with).

          So hire a good Irish lawyer.

          Good luck & best wishes

          Another James I

      • David

        @ James J: If you can somehow get that Irish passport before you travel to Ireland, you should absolutely do so! If you attempt to travel to the UK on a US passport (whether it is IML marked or not), there is a good chance that you will not be allowed to enter the UK when you land at any UK airport – regardless of what you tell them about being eligible for an Irish passport. For that reason, if at all possible, get your Irish passport ahead of time and use that Irish passport when you are flying into the UK.

      • Rob

        I have both an EU (German) and a US passport. I know I’m one of the lucky 1% of the world and am thankful for it. I NEVER show anyone my US passport except when RE-ENTERING the US from overseas travel. Everywhere else, I am German and have never been denied entry to nor questioned in ANY country including England. Get that Irish passport, it’s worth its weight in gold.

        • Relief

          @ROB, Congratulations on the second passport. And yes, lucky and smart! Curious if you fly directly into a ‘restricted’ country (ie. England, Mexico) from USA or rather from a safe-entry third country to start your travels, like France or Germany, etc?
          Do you know if you still have a green notice sent out? (It’s just the initial country flight, right?) I’m guessing they (IML/CBP) do not have your German passport info?

          Again, congratulations and good info on a second PP.

        • AJ

          Just to be clear, IML doesn’t say you have to give 21 days notice if traveling on a US passport. It simply says if traveling internationally. IOW, using a German or Irish passport doesn’t absolve one of giving IML notifications. Careful, folks.

  28. CB

    There doesn’t seem to be much activity here lately since no one is traveling internationally. I have another one of those ‘how could this be happening’ questions

    I read some posts on other forums – probably some here in the past as well – where people talked about the communication sent to your destination country when you give 21 day notice of an international trip. We’ve had debates about the legitimacy of the registry and the requirement that we give advance notice when we plan to leave the country. Let’s just agree for the sake of this argument that all that is legal and isn’t ‘punishment’. Here is the part that I don’t understand. Multiple people have given first hand accounts describing their interaction with immigration, border control, or whoever greets them when they step off the plane in a foreign country. In many cases, the agent is sympathetic to the traveler and doesn’t agree with this treatment. A few travelers have described situations in which the agent showed the communication sent by the US and it usually says something like this: “A dangerous sex offender is entering your country and we believe they are likely to re-offend in your country. Please return them to the US immediately.” Of course I paraphrased, but after seeing several of these over the last few years I tend to believe that this is what the communication states. One guy who tried to go to somewhere in South America if I remember correctly, said that the agent and his boss said they didn’t want to honor the request but they need any support they can get from the US government and they were afraid that if they didn’t comply there would be consequences.

    If this is even partly true, How can the US government get away with stating that I am dangerous and likely to re-offend and I should be sent back. No data, observations, or documentation of any sort suggests that any of this is true about the traveling sex offender. The US is telling a foreign government to act on false information that the US is supplying. It’s like the judge in a case telling the jury that the accused is really bad and should be convicted.

    Any thoughts?

    • M C

      Unfortunately case law (if I understand it correctly) is well established in that the government can engage in libel and you can’t sue them for that. So even if they are sending false statements about you could probably at best get a court order that they correct the information already sent which is pointless because the damage is already done.

      There may be other ways to approach this such as using these statements to attempt to prove the government is impeding your travel but from a libel standpoint that would be DOA at least in my opinion.

  29. mel.on.wheels

    I spoke to my registrant officer and he told me that i did not have to let him know if I was traveling internationally. I live in one of those states where it is not required. Will this affect my travels?

    I am hoping to go to Kenya as soon as this pandemic is over. I have read some articles where it states that it would be okay. The list here says I will be turned away. There is so much conflicting information that I am not sure what to believe anymore. I am going to volunteer and work with widows. I would hate to spend so much money on a flight only to be turned around. I have been speaking with the founder of the organization, whom I will be staying with, for almost 6 months now. I would feel horrible for him if I was now unable to come help. I have not disclosed my past to him.

    Also I got word that my passport should be here within a week. I do not know yet if it will have the notice on it or not. My conviction was almost 20 years ago. I will let you know when I receive it.

    If not Kenya, are there other African countries I could go to that would be easier/better to get into?

    • Blake

      @Mel I don’t know anything about Kenya, but when I finished supervision last year, I gave my 21 day notice and flew from Cleveland to Namibia via Johannesburg. South African customs slightly delayed me because of my green notice. But after a telephone call and a few key strokes on their computer, they had me out of there in 10 minutes. Plenty of time to catch my connecting flight to Windhoek. When I went thru Namibian customs, they just scanned my American passport and waived me on. It’s like they didn’t get or didn’t care about my green notice. It was a 50 minute ride into the capitol, but once the airport freeway is complete, the ride will be cut in half. Namibia’s capitol city is drop dead gorgeous! It’s clean and very modern with updated infrastructure. You don’t have to worry about open sewers and bad drinking water like they have in Mexico and much of latin America. Windhoek is a semi desert city that turns green during the rainy season. One part of the city-Windhoek Klein-is very upscale and reminds me of Santa Fe. Unlike other formerly colonized African countries like Kenya and South Africa, Namibia goes its own way. They don’t follow commonwealth guidelines or other western treaties. Namibia tends to give the finger to the US for not supporting it’s war of independence against apartheid South Africa, but Cuba did, so Windhoek has a major street named Fidel Castro. Namibia doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the US but relations between the 2 countries are still good. So that’s my experience in southern Africa. I’m glad you’re interested in traveling to the continent-normally you don’t have people on this forum interested.They’d rather keep trying to get into countries that no longer welcome them-oh well. I still have Africa but if you go to Nambia, take lots of sunblock. I learned the hard way!

      • mel.on.wheels

        Do you have the notice on your passport?
        I have wanted to go to Africa since I was a child. This is a once-in-a-lifetime trip for me so I want to make the most of it. If I could, I would move there. If you don’t mind me asking, what did you do during your travels? Do you think it would be easier to get to a country like Namibia then go to Kenya?

        • mel.on.wheels

          Also, I have read that it may help that I am a woman. I heard that women can bypass entry a little bit easier? This may be rumor. Unless anyone has more knowledge? Looks like travel will be opening up (hopefully) by August or so. I am planning to travel in September/October.

        • Blake

          Hey Mel, I went to Namibia out of the blue. I knew a friend in prison who used to rave about the country because he lived in Windhoek working for an NGO in the early 2000s. Needless to say, he wants to go back, but he has a wait to finish out a nearly 20 year stint for some serious pedo shit. I always told him he shouldn’t have come back to America.Anyways, I had 2 years in the pen to study up on Africa-a lot of brothers helped me out. My prison buddy left me contact info to folks in Namibia.So when I got released 3 yrs ago, I did 2 yrs on paper, got a passport (no it didn’t have a mark but they wanted it back a few months after I returned from Africa) did my 21 days and I was off to Namibia. I stayed with a an affluent family who lived in the hills of Windhoek. So my prison buddy left me some good contacts! They were a rainbow family with German and Herero tribe ancestry-beautiful kids. I only spent time in Windhoek. They took me around shopping, to museums, cultural sites, etc. Now there are pockets of extreme poverty in some townships (like Katatura) around the city, but basically Windhoek is a clean modern middle class capitol city. Their roads are far better than the potholed streets here in Cleveland. Like I said before, I know nothing about Kenya, but since Namibia has a sizable German population, they have direct flights from Germany and other European countries. I flew from America, so I had to layover in Johannesburg, but I know they have a lot of flights from Jozie to Nairobi. So if you’re worried about being turned around in Kenya, do a rtrp to Johannesburg first because so far, South Africa doesn’t turn away registered sex offenders. If you do go to Nambia, take sun block if you’re fair skin. I’m Italian with a little shade, but that sun still beat my ass! I was peeling like a melon by the time I hooked up with my contacts and borrowed sunblock from the more whiter members of the family. Anyways, have fun in Africa!

      • Mzungu

        Thanks for the information on Namibia. I travel to Kenya and this looks like a good country if I ever get need an alternative on the continent. I love desert landscapes and Windhoek looks beautiful.

        I understand what you mean by traveling to countries that we aren’t welcomed anymore. I think Asia is so popular because the ladies there love Americans so much (or at least our money/status). I think if more men understood that the African ladies love white men as much as the Asian ladies do, then they would be more willing to travel there.

    • Mzungu

      I have a wife in Kenya and also live in a state that does not require the 21 day notice. I travel there about every year and stay 3-6 months.

      So far, I have had no problems. I do use Visa on Arrival.

      There is an instance of one person being denied entry to Kenya after he gave the 21 day notice.

      I have thought about what I would do if denied. I would buy a ticket south to Tanzania, then attempt to enter Kenya via Namanga.

      I will be returning to Kenya as soon as they allow people in again. Hoping to stay permanently this time, but that is another story.

      • mel.on.wheels

        @Mzungu That is when I will be going as well. Going to a village near Narok. When was the last time you traveled there? Do you think it might help if I had a letter from the owner of the Charity I will be working with? I wish there was some way I could stay forever, but that would prove more difficult than you. Will it be easier that I am a woman?

      • Mustafo

        Being a woman, especially a white woman, might help you at customs. Beyond that, it gets murky.

  30. Texasdude

    So based on some of the previous comments am I correct here?

    I moved from Texas and they still have be listed on their website for life as a registrant. I do not provide them with any updates or information regarding my current status because I moved to WA state where I succesffuly petioned the court and am no longer a registrant here.

    Am I correct in stating I owe no one a 21 day notification?

    Trust me, I tried contacting both texas and wa state trying to provide them my travel plans in the past ( which were cancelled due to Covid)…both states told me they would not be taking my information.

    Texas- they would not take it because I am not in their jurisdiction
    Wa state – they would not take it because I am no longer a registrant

    • mel.on.wheels

      @Texasdude I left Texas over 10 years ago and have never had contact with them since. My present SO office said I only have to register with them and when I asked him if I needed to let him know if I would be traveling internationally he said that I didn’t have to. I also didn’t have to show then my passport either.


      @TexasDude – you’re correct that you don’t owe the 21-day notice -provided you are not still required to register per federal sorna. IOW, provided that your offense puts you in a federal SORNA tier with a registration period that has expired. For example, if you’re tier 1, then 15 years.

      According to IML, prosecution for failure to provide the 21-day notice of international travel applies only if you’re STILL presently required under federal SORNA to register with your state’s SOR (as determined by your offense tier).

      • texasdude

        Unfortunaley, under federal SORNA I would be required to register for life. The reason I am not required to register in my current state is because I petioned the court to get off the registry 10 years ago. So while I don’t register anywhere or at any office, Texas still has my info on line even though I am not registered there neither since I dont live there.

        • Finally Retired

          @Texas Dude – If you’re still required to register under FEDERAL SORNA then technically you’re required to provide this Notice… BUT your state doesn’t require you to be registered, so how would you actually comply with this requirement? I would send notice of travel with your dates and itinerary to your local registry by certified mail (and keep copies/receipts!)

          But I wouldn’t let this deter you from travel. This may not even be an issue upon your return.

          I’m not a lawyer but I’m providing my best sense of your situation (like you, I’m not required to register in my home state nor by federal SORNA given the passage of time, yet Florida still lists me for life because my offense was in Florida and they don’t remove out of staters without a judge order).

          Btw, how did you manage to be dispensed from the registration req? What did that process entail? Did you undergo psych testing as part of that? What was your legal argument? ( My Noncontact offense is not a covered offense in my home state.)

        • texasdude

          @Finally Retired
          Thanks for the advise… yes, I tried contacting my local office and they told me as far as they are concerned, I am not a registrant and they would not even take down my information. Same thing was told to me by Texas. I am not a registrant there so they would not take my info neither. As for delisting, if I can recall, the process entailed, hiring an attorney, getting a national background check completed, passing a polygraph, getting clearance from a SO therapist, getting letters to the judge from family members who painted me in a positive manner, and verification that I completed court appointed SOR therapy while I was on probation. So for 5 years after I got off the registry I started a new life, I was on no national registry, and started a career and family. Then for whatever reason, Texas re-activated my SOR records online and my life once again turned upside down. As soon as I realized my name was on the internet once again, I legally changed my name so that I could pass background checks and so far it has worked. Texas does not have my new name nor do I have any intention of providing these details to them since I am not required to by law.

        • texasdude

          @Finally Retired

          Yes, I got deregistred in 2009 in WA state by hiring an attorney and going through the deregistration motions. Polygraph test, psych test, letter from family, etc

          Then unfortunaley Texas came back and put my back on their reigstry in 2014. So my name was back on the internet. I had to change my name to pass background checks for work because here in WA they can only go back 7 years when they do these checks, so since I go by new name, I am able to skirt national SOR checks… I am 45 and became a registrant when I was 18, so I learned a few tricks on how to get on with my life.

  31. mel.on.wheels

    I just got my passport today. Only took 4 months…lol. I applied Feb 20th.
    It is good for 10 years. It says “See page 27” under endorsements. However on page 27 there is nothing there. UGH! I know y’all don’t have definite answers. This is kinda frustrating…lol

    • Lake County

      Welcome to the Price Club. Everything is confusing for us. Every jurisdiction has a different opinion of how to interpret the laws since they are not well written. You need to read every comment on this website to figure out what you want to do. Talking with an attorney in your State and the Country you want to move or travel to is the only safe thing to do. Many people here have said that after they have returned back from travel with their unmarked Passport, that they received notification it was being revoked and a new passport with the notice would have to be applied for. The passport notice really does nothing because nobody ever looks at that last page. Travel is very complex for us and the risk is all on you. I recommend you send your registration office a registered letter with your travel plans. Upon your return to the U.S., you are not met by your local police, you are met by Federal Agents that follow Federal laws. You want to be able to prove you followed Federal law upon your return. Regardless if you submit the 21 day notice, a background check is done on everyone on every flight due to the no-fly list and their desire to track those on Megan’s List. You must expect that your destination country will be notified of your arrival. Many times they do not notify the destination Country until after your fight has taken off. It’s up to individual customs agents (that have great power) to decide if you may enter their country or not. If you are denied entry, you will be sent back on the next plane at your full max fare cost. Also if you are denied, most likely you will be banned from re-entry for at least 10 years. Once you are on any countries computer system as a sex offender, they might keep that information on their computers forever, even if you are removed from Megan’s List in the U.S.

      I recommend not to travel to any country you are not sure will allow you in because you do not want to risk getting banned for life. It would be better to wait until you can qualify to get of Megan’s List before going to any Country you are sure will allow you in. Having said all that, there are many countries that are known to allow us in for sure. Pick one of those countries or wait until you get off the list. Of course, being a women, customs agents might be easier on you.

      • Axiom

        Well said Lake County!

      • mel.on.wheels

        @Lake County
        On the Travel Matrix I saw there were about 21 countries that were listed that said they do not turn away SOs. Of those, 8 might still turn you away. Previously stated by another person, they went to a country that would turn us away and still got in. Of course there was only maybe 25% of the world’s countries on there. What list do you have of countries that DO allow us in? Do you have a link you could share? Mine is a federal charge so there is no getting off the list for me without a presidential pardon and that ain’t gonna happen in my lifetime.

        I just applied for my passport right before this chaos happened. Wouldn’t they have had plenty of time (4 months) to know who I was and put the notice in there? Wouldn’t they have put an expiration of one year instead of the ten it states? I even called them today and asked why it said “See page 27”. She said a lot of them have that on there for no reason and I shouldn’t worry about it.

        I specifically asked my SO Office about notice of international travel and he said I didn’t have to let him know.

        Every person on every flight? That’s about 3 million people, just in the USA (before COVID). I’m not sure they have that kind of time.

        • someone who cares

          Mel ~ All passports say see page 27 on the first page. Pages 4-28 are used for endorsements, like stamps of the countries you visited. Page 27 is usually blank.

        • Lake County

          Yes, they do have that kind of time to check all airline manifests for every flight. I’m sure it’s fully automated these days. I wouldn’t expect they have people entering names one by one. If they don’t check every name flying against the no fly list and just one terrorist gets away with another 9/11, there will be many people fired for the failure. Having them also checking for people on Megan’s list is just a bonus for law enforcement to make our lives harder. If your name isn’t checked before the flight due to a last minute ticket purchase or flight change, it will be checked while you are in flight and they can potentially call your name in the airplane just after landing and have you escorted off the plane and interrogated for as long as they want before making you buy a return ticket back on the next flight.

          Some people have had good luck traveling to countries that don’t care about allowing registrants in. But, some people have a nightmare situation with customs. Sometimes you need to travel to an easy country and then travel to your actual destination. Regardless it does appear that all of us will end up in secondary screening upon our return to the U.S. Also remember that U.S. customs will likely look at what country’s entry stamps are in your passport upon return. Sorry to be so negative, but you need to be aware of all the possibilities when traveling internationally.

          Since you have a Federal conviction, I would make sure you follow IML as best you can. Carry proof with you that you sent the 21 day notification to your registering office in case U.S. Marshall’s question you about it on your return. Better safe than sorry sitting in a jail.

    • Jax

      Don’t panic Mel. That has happened to just about everyone on this forum who got their passport for the first time. You won’t get the passport with the mark until you complete your first international trip and come back to the usa. The state department will then expect you to pay another $140.00 (I think thats how much they cost) to trade in your current passport for another one with a beautiful mark saying you commited a sex crime against a minor. So cherish the passport you have now because you get only one freebie to travel international without the mark. If you choose not to travel international, the state dept won’t ask you for your current passport back. You can just use it for ID over the next 10 years. Happy travels.

  32. mel.on.wheels

    Thanks everyone for all the information. Looks like either way I will have to risk being questioned and/or returned no matter where I travel to. Looks like my best bet to get to Kenya is to fly to Tanzania like Mzungu said then take a bus over the border. If I am denied entry to Kenya I can just return to Tanzania.

    • Axiom

      I read about a superhighway being built to link Mombasa with Nairobi. It’s already 8 lanes around Nairobi. Since Mombasa is near the Tanzanian border, you should have no problems getting to Nairobi and the Kenyan hinterlands.

    • Lake County

      Just make sure you have the money for your return ticket at the no advance notice fare (that is usually extremely expensive, just look up what an airline will charge you for a return flight without notice). A travel agent may be a good idea. The airlines usually will not change your return flight for free unless you buy travel insurance from a travel agent. Chances are you won’t have a major issue. But, always plan for the worst. Travel insurance is likely your best bet unless you have enough money to not worry about it. I would also suggest you find out all you can about any country’s “recent” laws before travel. We’ve had reports of people having just a layover through Canada or UK and being immediately deported with a re-entry ban. You must be careful of layovers / plane transfers into any country. Once your plane lands in any country, you are subject to all their laws.

      Please when you go, keep us advised of what happened on arrival and then return. Everyone’s travel information is extremely valuable for all of us since the rules/laws are so vague.

  33. johm

    I am about a year off registration so far, and planning a trip to the phillipines in september. I was wondering if anyone that has been off the list has tried to go there, and if anyone has any tips?

    the Filipino lawyer stated I should be able to get in, and said a law in progress is not law as of yet for registraints. I know how hard things are though I will be getting my passport in the next few weeks to see if I have an identifier, if I do that just might make me change my plans. I was thinking of flying in but I am worried angel notice may try to get me banned for my past that makes me think I should fly to Hong Kong and take a boat from there. I read an idea someone mentioned on one of these posts suggesting that their partner takes a photo of their passport right to b.i. I was going to try that and if I cant get in was going to bring her with me if that was possible, figure if I came in a boat that woulnt be to hard to get her to another place with me. unfortunately my case is with an underage but consent, i don’t plan to apply for a visa unless I am already in to try to extend my stay. I have no plans to come back here, really doesn’t matter where I end up how I feel about this stuff lol

    • Lake County

      As long as you’ve never been denied entry from the Philippines in the past due to a green notice, you should be okay for travel. I assume you are not still on any State’s Megan’s List.

      • john

        nice i’ve never had a passport because I was afraid that would put me in their system, been trying to plan this for 5 years really hopeful. had someone send my picture to the embassy or bi online supposedly trying to tell them my case, but never used my name on fb so not to worried about that part. i am off all states, I was only on MN and Illinois been afraid to leave my own state

    • Rob

      Do not try for an extended stay visa in the Philippines. The Philippine Bureau of Immigration has the US embassy do a background check on you and it will show up that you were or are a registrant. I know. That’s how I got blacklisted from the Philippines

  34. Skipper

    I am an RSO in Texas and I am about to move aboard a sailboat and sail off to wherever the winds take me. I have a new passport with no stamp and I’m free of supervision. I am interested in discussing coming into ports of other countries on a private vessel that is my home. I know there are yes and no countries and I have a sail plan that is made accordingly. I am interested in any experiences anyone may have had that is similar

    • Paul Rigney

      Please contact me. I wish to share sailing information on my website.
      Paul Rigney

  35. Need2Know

    Not sure the status of any challenges to IML, but came across this article on compelled speech.

  36. Rob

    Do not try for an extended stay in the Philippines. The Philippine Bureau of Immigration has the US embassy do a background check on you and it will show up that you were or are a registrant. I know. That’s how I got blacklisted from the Philippines

    • Albert Sinclair

      Are you sure it was a “background check” and not simply an angle watch travel notice that is passed via the embassy?

      • Rob

        100% positive it was from background check. I was already in Cebu for 20 days when I decided to get an extended stay Visa. I was given the visa and how I found out I was blacklisted was when I left the Phillipines and tried to come back in about 2 months later and was stopped at immigration. I went to a room with an immigration officer and he told me I was being denied entry due to “moral turpitude”. He showed me the background check on me from the US embassy. This happened back in 2013 and to get off then blacklist I cant petition Philippine immigration for 10 years. They have a length of time system that you can’t petition immigration to get off their black list. Moral turpitude is 10 years. Even though my name has been removed from the registry here in New York State back in 2016 and I no longer have to register I still have to wait that 10 years. To let you know that when your no longer required to register your name is taken off the states registry and off the government’s list. I go to Singapore and Thailand to this day and have never had a problem getting in amd no problem flying back into San Francisco then through customs. You’re not red flagged anymore

        • Need2Know

          Out of curiosity, when you say you’re “not red flagged anymore,” does that also mean when you enter the U.S.? Or do you still get to “enjoy” a secondary search?

  37. Robert

    Need to know,,,, when you fly back into the US, ( I fly into San Francisco) before you go through US Immigration and Customs you scan your passport in a kiosk and punch in information on the kiosk screen. It’s the same info in your photo page on your passport. The kiosk prints out a black and white paper with your info on it. On the paper it will be outlined in red. That is the red flag for secondary inspection to give you a going over. When my name was removed off the registry in New York back in 2016, I no longer had the red outlined paper print out from the kiosk and since no more red Mark’s I breeze right through customs/immigration. And no more secondary

    • Finally Retired

      Good to know -thanks!

      I still wonder though if green notices would be sent out to destination counties, even though you’re no longer a registrant (but still have a conviction involving a minor).

      Thanks for any input on this.

      • A.D.A.T.

        From accounts I have read in the past, the notices might still be sent once off the U.S. list. The notices come from Interpol, not I.C.E. You can try a short trip to a destination close to you and simply ask them if they received any notice about your arrival. Why risk getting blackballed to a place you actually care about.
        If the notice happens , you can then get a lawyer familiar with Interpol and their procedures and see about why they flagged you and what can be done to avoid it in the future. Time consuming, but in my humble opinion, worth it.

        • Ivan

          So I have a question, are any of you dual citizens? For example lets say I am jewish with the ability to get a “right of return” passport from Israel. And I give my 21 day notice, travel to Israel for an extended stay. Then decide to go to a country that bans RSO’s. I go to say Thailand on my Israeli passport. Will there still be any notice, seem if I am marked from Interpol, then notice will be given whereever I go and under any passport? Anyone have experience with this? Actually my father fled Austria, and they have a new law that would entitle me to also get an Austrian passport, however it does require a criminal background check and thus my request for that passport might be denied. If any of you have experience in this area, please contact me.

        • Rob

          Ivan –
          I have a German passport and a US passport. I HAVE used my German passport to go to “banned” countries, UK for example. I’ve never been turned away and not one person even blinked an eye. Only issue is you have to go there from Europe, NOT from the US.

    • Need2Know

      That’s great to know. I’m supposed to be off the registry, but can’t officially do until Covid allows offices to open. Except for 2 experiences, I have always been flagged for secondary screening (20+ times). I’m still not optimistic that will stop but you have given me some hope.

      Is anyone off the registry but still gets flagged for secondary?

      • Robert

        Right now I am in Hanoi Vietnam. Like Ivsaid New York removed me off the registry and I breezed right through immigration. Immigration here at the airport scanned my passport looked at the screen and stamped my passport and off I go

        • NY won’t let go

          Were you a level 1? Right now I’m waiting for the covid thing to end so my lawyer can file my suit to be removed since I don’t live in the country and my conviction didn’t originate in NY

      • Trayvon

        @Ivan Im going tell you right now, dont fuck arou..und with these people. As long as you an American citizen, you gotta follow American rules. Just because you have some Israel passport on the side dont mean you can use it and fly out to rendezvous with some teen ho in France where the age of consent is much lower than the US of A. You could come back and get swiftly prosecuted for statutory rape under American law. Same thing could happen for not giving that 21 day notice. Only way to get around it is to totally disavow yourself of American citizenship altogether, and that’s pretty hard to do, even if you do some treason shit. But if your successful, you better have a good backup country, not some 3rd world hell hole like Mexico or the Phillipines. Shit, I like getting my American SSDI check, no matter how much I hate their sex offender laws.

        • Ivan

          First of all for Rob, that was the answer I was looking for. So you traveled on your German Passport out of EU and went where you wanted. So I could travel to Israel or Austria, then go where I please.
          And for Trayvon, Jesus dude your post is highly offensive. I am a world traveler with a call center in Manila where most of my employee’s are as well as my son. As for as the 21 day notice goes, you notify the US 21 days before of what you know, that your leaving the country to say Israel and if you have no further plans at that time, this is as far as the notice goes. They want to know when your leaving so they can give notice. The scarlet letter on what will be my new passport is to keep pervs from country shopping. Other passports are not “passports on the side buddy” When I travel on an Israeli or Austrian passport, it means I am also a citizen of those countries. So to make a long story short, in the event I am in Tel Aviv, and decide to go visit my son in Manila, as long as I havn’t already been blacklisted, I shouldn’t have a problem. And by the Trayvon. The US has no problem with me going to Manila, only PH has a problem letting me in. I am going to get a lawyer to help me with the criminal record aspect of getting my Austrian citizenship. Because I want an EU passport. I may want to live in Spain for awhile. Also in theory. If I were to live in Spain each year for say 6 months and left the US a week before my birthday when I am supposed to register. Then technically I am no longer a RSO, until I return to the US and have to register again. It seems rinse and repeat, that you could go much of each year not registered in your foreign other home? Any one thought of this? Of course if you living in another country, you are not required to give 21 days notice as your already out of the country. Just a few thoughts.

        • Trayvon

          @Ivan Dont shoot the messenger, baby. I just keeps it re..eal! If language bothers you, grow some thick skin. Anyways, the feds want to know where yous going when you put in your 21 day notice. If you fly off to Israel on American papers, and decide to go to the Philippines or some shit where we know dont want sex offenders inside their country. If you go to the Philippines on Austrian papers, and Duarte finds out your a sex offender?! It’s torture time inside a Manila jail. And if you do make it back to America, well, yah have some splaining to do at customs, like filipine officials had called them up and they were wondering why they didnt get that green notice on YOUR ASS! And once customs finds out you were sneaking into countries on Austrian papers, especially into countries that ban international sex offenders, well, that’s it for you hommie. You have another trip to go on, and thats to the federal pen. 😥 So dont chance it, baby. Heed my warnings if you want to stay free.

  38. NotEasilyOffended

    Covid travel restrictions are having a huge economic impact on many countries. Perhaps some of these countries will be less likely to restrict SO travel in the interest of bring money back into their country?

  39. CB

    Does anyone have experience with South Africa? The international Travel Matrix only shows one country in Africa. I used to own two timeshares in SA, but only used them for trading purposes and never visited.

    • Blake

      @CB Last year, right off of parole, I flew to Namibia, but changed flights in Johannesburg with no problem. They just questioned me for 5 min about the green notice. Then I caught my connecting flight to Windhoek. The Namibia customs didn’t care about my registry fact. my offense is legal there. The Namibian capital city is beautiful and modern.

  40. Steveo

    My apologies if any of this information has already been discussed recently, but I have not been around the site for a while and could use some information/help/advise.
    My situation is this, I’m a us citizen unjustly forced to register for a crime that I committed nearly 30 years ago. I have no re-offended in any way or had any legal issues since then. I am forced to register for life. I have an opportunity to move out of this country to Europe which I am pursuing. I would live in Europe with a visa, hoping to move on to residency and then citizenship. My question is this. What about coming back into the US for things like funerals? My mom is still alive, and I think coming back into Texas seems sketchy, because I think you’re supposed to register if you’re here for 7 days, then there is the 21-day SORNA stuff the feds are thinking about imposing on all states. Would I be forced to register, then wait 21 days each time I come in and out of the US? Would I potentially be stopped from leaving if I came back? Would they potentially try to get my Visa revoked with the European country? Should I try to hire and talk to a good lawyer before we go? Thank you in advance for any information/comments/advise.

    • Rob

      I have dual European and American citizenship. I have never renounced my US citizenship as I would NEVER be allowed back in the US if I did. As long as you don’t stay longer in a state to incur the registration period, you never have to register again. Just be aware of each state’s period. Also, you will always be harassed by CBP at entry into the US. I find Kennedy Airport the easiest, Miami is a disaster. Once you have EU citizenship you are golden. Good luck to you.

      • Will Allen

        If you have time, I’m just curious what makes Miami a disaster? What do the CBP criminals do to you?

        I’ve always found it most effective to never engage law enforcement officers, probation officers, therapists, or anyone else that is a harassing idiot. I’ve found that saying “I have nothing to say to you” works very well in many, many situations. How would that go with CBP? Is a U.S. citizen legally required to talk to them upon entering/returning to the U.S.?

      • E @ Rob

        Rob, thank you for this. Can you describe how you’ve come to this conclusion? Have you simply done what you describe (never stay in one state long enough to trigger registration), or was it clarified that that is CBP’s policy as you enter and exit the country? (Including the idea of moving from state to state and then flying home?)

        Did you work with an attorney or call the “SMART” office or anything like that, or just show up in the US and make the assumption that you could do this? Your report is the first I’ve heard like this and so I’m really grateful for your sharing it.

        • Rob

          This is just what I do. I don’t call or contact anyone. I just know each state’s time period and abide by it. They ask nothing about my “visits” as I am a US citizen and they assume I’m coming home. The one time they inquired about why my US passport has zero stamps, I said ” because I use this out of the US” and showed my German passport. He laughed and said lucky you! He never even took it out of my hand. Feel free to contact me directly if the moderator will share my email with you.

      • Finally Retired

        @ Rob – I would imagine that obtaining EU citizenship with a SO conviction would be quite a challenge. I’d be grateful for any feedback on how we might go about obtaining this citizenship. Would type of offense and passage of time play a role with regard to qualifying? Or perhaps this option is limited to individuals with close familial ties in a European country.

        Thank you.

        • Rob

          @finally retired,
          I am not sure what checks they would do if you applied for EU citizenship. I am one of the extremely lucky few who was granted automatic citizenship under Article 116 of the German constitution. I’m sure many more people are eligible but unaware of how simple it is IF you are eligible. My citizenship was granted 4 weeks after applying and 2 weeks later I was sent my passport. I don’t even speak German HAHA

    • Finally Retired

      @Steveo – You mention that your offense dates Back almost 30 years. Depending on your particular SORNA tier, You may not even be subject to federal SORNA based on the passage of time. If that is the case, you wouldn’t be required by federal sorna to provide the 21-day notice of international travel. Nor would the other federal specific registration requirements apply. That is not to say that your state of residence wouldn’t have separate requirements that would still apply, depending on their registration policy per your particular offense.

  41. A.D.A.T.

    Here’s one for you guys that like to travel to Mexico,

    I have a “non marked” passport. A Friend and I want to go to Baja to do some surfing. We are taking his vehicle and planning on camping on beach.

    What are the odds I get detained at border. I am thinking the 21 day notice will be in affect, but so many times they just wave you through.

    On a side note, I find it laughable that a country that has a crime rate for murder and drugs near the top of any country can look at a 6 yr old misdemeanor and say “ we don’t want your kind”. Hell, the guy looking at the passport is likely on the payroll of the cartels.

    • Mike G


      I can only give you pre-Covid-19 experience. I don’t even know if the border is currently open.

      I’ve driven into Mexico probably close to 100 times over the last 20 years, through the San Ysidro border crossing. I have been stopped maybe half a dozen times. In each case, I was asked if I had any drugs or guns. A couple of times I think they asked me to open the trunk. I have never been asked for a passport by a Mexican border crossing person. I don’t even know if there is somewhere they could go to scan one if they wanted to. Typically, they just stood out in the open waving traffic through.

      There was almost always a security checkpoint just south of Rosarito. They stopped all vehicles, but only asked if you were carrying any drugs.

      I have permanent resident status in Mexico (green card) though I have never had to show it. I understand that if you travel south of Ensenada, they will check if you have a green card or a visa. Normally you pick up a tourist type Visa at the border (you might be able to get one in the US before crossing). In this case, they will look at your passport. I don’t know if they would actually be able to scan it, or just copy the information from it onto the visa form.

      So bottom line, pre-Covid, there would have been no issue driving into Baja, as long as you didn’t go south of Ensenada. When leaving Mexico, you will of course be sent to Secondary Inspection. This has nothing to do with Mexico, it is all US driven. There was always a 2 to 4 hour line plus another 30 minutes in Secondary, but who knows now. The wait at Otay Mesa was usually shorter. Also, I highly recommend buying Mexican auto insurance before crossing the border. Even if your US insurance says it will cover Mexico, if you have an accident without Mexican insurance, they will typically impound your vehicle and have you cool your heels in a cell while they “investigate”.

      If you do give it a go, let us know what, if anything, has changed due to the virus.

  42. James I


    It is not my nature to be negative, (except everything in reference to the registry, I suppose), but I think this is a poor idea.

    I have spent plenty of time in Secondary, like everyone…but especially Mexico where at one time I might walk across twice a day, and so doing 5 visits usually to Secondary over a weekend. I’ve had good times in Secondary and bad times…good CBP agents and bad…but never have I been over when they could ask me if I gave my 21 day notice and could they see it….please?

    That’s felony hit if anyone wanted to pursue it…on the US side. I personally would not take this risk, especially with border security being such a hot button issue now.

    However, if you planned to give your 21 day notice and was simply waved through by Mexican Authorities in a vehicle, then good on `ya laddie….because if you are directed to secondary for any reason coming back, they will run your passport and it will be obvious to any agent that you are an RSO…and I have suggested what the next question would be…(I think)

    As long as you give your 21 day notice I am good with this trip…however, as a side note, the instant you give your 21 day notice you will probably be put on a Mexican List that will last your lifetime….which is why I have stayed away until the CA Tiered system is in place, (which may not do me any good anyhow….jokes on me, or, I will be too old for it to make a difference).

    In any case, please think this through (Mexico)….I might suggest a flight to Bonaire in the Caribbean or Tahati in the Pacific…any French or Dutch island possession…and have a good worry free time.

    Best Wishes, James I

    • Mike G

      @James I

      Hope you are well!

      I pretty much agree with you. I would not go to Mexico (or anywhere else out of the country) without doing the 21 day notice thing. Although I have yet to be asked about the 21 day notice in the last 20-25 times I’ve been in Secondary (the last time was in February), I don’t want to be the first RC to experience that mandatory 10 year federal sentence. I still think it is insane that someone should get 10 years for failing to file a piece of paper, especially if their original offense was a misdemeanor.

      Also, like you, I have not driven over the border for over a year now for fear of getting on a list in Mexico that could prove detrimental in the future. That said, I did take a risk by visiting Puerto Vallarta and Huatulco Mexico in December. I DID file the 21 day notice, but those locations were just 2 on a list that included Nicaragua, Guatemala, Costa Rica, Panama, and Curaçao. Of course, none of those places looked at my passport. It is possible that Satan Watch notified all those locations, but I doubt it. Best I can tell, they only notify places you fly into, though that could change at any time (like everything else). Unless Mexico starts checking passports when you drive in, I will probably never know if I have been blacklisted.

      Again, like you, I am hoping that the new tiered registry law will get me relief from having to register and give notices, but I fear this new and improved SORNA 2 is going to screw everything up. All we can do is hope and pray.

  43. SAF

    Has anyone applied for a passport while under supervision (parole/probation)? If so, what was your experience? Did they refuse to issue it?

    • Mike G


      I’m not sure how the State Department would know that you are under supervision, so I doubt that there would be a problem getting a passport.
      They will check, however, to see if you are a registered sex offender, and if your offense involved a minor. In that case, there will be a rubber stamp in the back of your passport stating such.

    • M C

      My understanding is that unless you have a condition of probation / plea or a law prohibiting you from having a passport you would have no trouble getting one. Even in the case someone has these conditions you may still be issued a passport but would be in violation of a condition. The exception is that a judge could have a passport actually revoked. When I was on probation albeit over a decade ago, so pre-IML, I had no issue getting my PO to issue a travel permit for international travel. Their take on it was if they would let you in you could go. They were aware even then (this was in 2008) though that our country was green noticing travel to specific countries for certain registrants mainly to countries known for sex tourism. The probation office however did not understand what specific criteria would generate a green notice as to them it was inconsistent.

    • A.D.A.T.

      @ SAF

      I had my passport while on probation, so I don’t see how issuing one would be any different. It is used as a form of I.D. in many cases. The problem we face is actually being able to use it for purpose intended. Best to call a passport issuing office in your area and ask them. They can also expedite it if needed, for an additional fee.

  44. CB

    Jobs overseas? I am 1.5 years away from being off supervision and can finally travel (of course with the limitations often discussed on this board). I have had my eye on parts of Europe for quite some time. Moving permanently would be my first choice, but you need a long term visa and those are hard to get. Finding a job is the best way to get one. It looks very difficult to get a job overseas. I had a professional career but haven’t done it for 10 years and now can’t even find a job in my field in the US because of the time off.

    English teaching is often touted as the go-to-job for people looking to travel, but what about background checks? After lots of reading on the subject over the years I know there is a market for teaching business people internationally as I’m not looking to teach children because of obvious concerns. Does the industry as a whole do background checks and therefore make the job search impossible. I have noticed that some English teaching ads specifically say “no criminal record”. Any other thoughts on employment options overseas? Thanks

    • A.D.A.T.

      @ CB

      It really depends on job applying for , the company’s approach to your offense, and the country it is located in. There is a great youtube video posted by a man that moved to Germany and has had much success. I have traded emails with him, and he says don’t give in to a lot of the bad info going around. I recommend you watch it.
      I looked at jobs offered in other places then contacted them. Many international businesses have opportunities in different countries. I found a few so far that sound promising. I was straight up with them when they ask why my interest, especially with my qualifications , and they appreciate that.
      Meanwhile I keep beefing up my resume with more education and whatever experience I can get to show that I am more than some old offense that only the U.S. seems hung up on. My offense is a misdemeanor, and have been told that with time, most countries would overlook it.
      We have to have hope for ourselves, since that is about all they left us. Myself, I lose it everyday, but find a way to fight the urge to give up. It’s not the world that doesn’t want us, just this country.
      Good luck , my brother.

    • Mike G

      Thank you very much, Mr. “IML Info” for posting this.

      Now I would like some help from our resident legal and/or well-informed experts…

      In this document, it spells out exactly what steps Satan Watch takes when it discovers one of us planning to fly out of the country, mainly notifying the equivalent agency (to the US Border Patrol or Homeland Security) in the country we are flying to, letting them know that we may be a danger to their children.

      What I don’t see is any mention of notifying Interpol, or suggesting that Interpol issue a “green notice” about us. Yet, many on this site have stated that “green notices” were issued against them by Interpol, which should only be able to happen if requested by the US government.

      So if Satan Watch is not requesting the notices, what US government agency is and why? Or is Satan Watch just omitting that little procedure from the list of actions it claims to take?

      In all my international travels, I have only been turned away from a country once, and I know that had nothing to do with Interpol because they showed me all the paperwork they had received directly from Satan Watch.

      So Steve, or AJ, or JohnDoeUtah, or any of you out that that are smarter and more well-informed than me, where/why does Interpol get involved with our travel?


      • TS

        @Mike G

        Why’s no one questioning “may be a danger to children” without an assessment of danger or case history review to say that statement?

        Should not be one sent to a country that says a previous drunk driver or speeder/reckless driver in America could be a drunk driver or speeder/reckless driver in their country?

        Maybe someone who has an assault on the record should have a note that they may assault someone in a diff country?

        • Mike G


          I agree completely.

          If the information transmitted to other countries included a description of what we actually did to earn a place on the registry, instead of just the broad charge, many, if not most of us, would be welcome to visit most countries.

          And if other personal info were included (age, years married, number of children, number of grandchildren, years since we were accused of any wrong doing, number of countries we have visited without harming or harassing any child, etc.) that other countries could use to assess our danger level on their own, we would probably be welcome with open arms. Most countries could really use our tourist dollars.

        • Will Allen

          Of course. It’s stupid. The part I really like is that a person could have traveled to another country, committed a crime, been convicted, and served prison time there. The person might’ve “accidentally” murdered someone and been convicted of manslaughter. Or committed DUI. Or any of a thousand crazy dangerous things. Yet our brilliant, out-of-control, harassing big government doesn’t think they should notify other countries about those people. People who actually went to another country and committed a crime! Perhaps they revoke such people’s passports? I doubt it. I mean, obviously someone who looked at bad pictures in this country is so much more dangerous than the accidental murderer. Morons. It’s pure nonsense.

          The reason for all of it is sex. That is all. I actually feel sorry for the “people” who think IML is good. When I see those people in their suits, standing around at podiums and bragging about it, I really do see people who I think are just sad and pathetic. I get an overwhelming feeling that they are weaklings and that they have to do “sex harassment” because it helps their low self-esteem. They probably also have problems with normal sex. I really feel like they have to prop up their own self-image.

          But let’s all make no mistake about those “people”. They are true harassing terrorists. They are not our fellow citizens and they a danger to families. They are people who get off on harassing others. As far as I’m concerned, they should be imprisoned.

      • JohnDoeUtah

        @Mike G

        I have not traveled internationally yet. I plan to when my children graduate high school, which is a few years away. When I do it will be a permanent move. I am not currently registered under state law. Our new proposed federal guidelines might change that. I plan to leave at or about year 19-20 of the Tier II requirement.

        One part of IML that is not usually discussed is 34 U.S. Code § 21504(a)(1), which allows the U.S. Marshal to notify other countries of the travel of any and all “sex offender” travel. This provision applies to all convicted of a sex offense, even if they are no longer required to register. This is separate from the Angle Watch notifications, which “appear” to require you to be registered to kick in.

        Other parts of the code allows then to use all means of resources for implementation, to include Interpol.

        • Mike G


          Well, that could explain the green notices. I guess the question would be, then, what would trigger the U.S. Marshall’s office to go to Interpol to request a Green Notice? Do we think they are doing this for ALL “sex offender” travel or do they pick and choose? If they pick and choose, what would they base this on? Would they do some kind of “assessment”? If they notify Interpol for everyone, seems that would tend to overwhelm Interpol and water down the importance of the notices.

          Personally, I would have no problem with the US notifying a country of planned travel of a US citizen who has been convicted of traveling to a foreign country and engaging in sex acts with children, especially little children, but I suspect that most of that type are already serving long sentences, or are smart enough not to try it again, and I doubt there is a separate list of those types – they are just mixed in with the rest of us.

          Would be interesting to know how much the U.S. Marshalls are actually getting involved in SO international travel.

          P.S. It sounds like you already have a permanent location picked out to move to – it not, I would recommend doing some travel to check things out before the kids finish high school. Either way, I am cheering you on!

        • M C

          @JohnDoeUtah, I agree that it does seem to say that however I do also think that may be able to be argued in court but I’m not sure one could win the argument. Unless this has already been done and I am unaware? The relevant definition says § 21504(h)(1) says “a sex offender under SORNA”. I would argue that this definition would mean that a sex offender under SORNA would require that person to be both a sex offender as defined by SORNA and currently subject to the requirements under SORNA otherwise the person is not “under SORNA” because nothing in SORNA currently applies to them. The definition of ‘sex offender’ alone certainly doesn’t mean that SORNA currently applies at least in my opinion. If none of the requirements under SORNA applies to them, how could the possibly be considered to be under it. If the intent of the § 21504 code was to include everyone defined as a sex offender § 21504(h)(1)the code should instead have said “a sex offender as defined under” or “as defined by” SORNA.

          If you are not under the registration of a state and you have no way to register under SORNA but would otherwise be a Tier I-Tier III currently, I think that § 21504(a)(1) would still apply regarding notification to you based on how I read it. In fact I would argue that that was the intent of the authors of this code – to send foreign notifications on people who are not registered but should still be subject to and under SORNA even where their state does not require them to register.

          What do you think?

        • JohnDoeUtah


          Its a hard one to slice. If the courts interpret “sex offender” and use the definition under SORNA, then it would apply even after the registration requirement expires.

          If you read the press release above, they say they use NCIC as well, which would cast a wider net beyond the registries. Do we know of anyone with a 25-30+ year old conviction who hasn’t been registered being notified on?

        • JohnDoeUtah

          @Mike G

          Yes, I usually have a 5-year plan. I have refused to let them define me and I have done rather well for myself and have packed away a rather nice nest egg. After my release I have finished both a Bachelors and Masters Engineering Degree. I am shooting for an EU Blue Card and permanent residency, then citizenship. If not for my children, I would have tried to leave 4 years ago.

          But, my son and oldest is the result of my crime. Just last week, at 15, he asked me if I regretted what happened. In my mind I said yes, to an extent, due to the life that resulted and the regret/remorse I do have. My daughter is the same age as my son’s mom when it all happened, of course I have opinions about my daughter being involved in that type of situation. But, to him I said, “it could have happened differently, at a later time, I broke the law as the adult and continue to pay for that, but I don’t regret it…” He said, “good.” I don’t regret my son and he is a defining moment in my life, I am very proud of the young man he is growing up to be. And, have stressed not to repeat what his dad did.

        • M C

          @JohnDoeUtah, I’m not really sure. Would be nice to know but I suspect they will notify based on your initial interpretation. I just think if they do you could take that to court and try and convince the court to rule based on my analysis that they can’t do the notification. The only other problem is that 21404(a)(4) says “perform such other functions at the Attorney General or the Director of the United States Marshals Service may direct.” I’m not sure that that doesn’t delegate the Attorney General or US Marshals Service to choose to send notifications even where 21404(a)(1) doesn’t apply. Honestly I can’t really tell what that was meant to delegate its overly broad.

        • MatthewLL

          There is a definition of “Sex Offender” under 34 U.S. Code § 21504 which states it is a sex offender under SORNA or a person required to register in a jurisdiction. That tells me they do not have authority under this section to make notification of those who’s registration requirement has expired. But who am I to hold authorities responsible to follow the law. BTW, is there no ongoing litigation regarding the passport or international notification anywhere in the country? I don’t think that CA ACSOL appealed the District court’s order on the case regarding passport branding. There was strong talk about how they had a case, but I guess not good enough to appeal.

        • M C

          @MatthewLL, I think that was the whole point of the discussion that the language could be interpreted as ambiguous and that would require a court to actually decide what “a sex-offender under SORNA” means. Don’t quote me on this but my understanding is that if a law is ambiguous – that is, if plain language reading is unclear – they interpret the reading from what they think the legislative intent was which can go either way. Finally, there may be a good case about IML, notifications and passport branding but the issue was essentially that the challenge was premature. It was probably determined that an appeal would not be worth it because on that basis the ruling would simply be affirmed. I think a challenge on that would just start back in the federal district courts all over again once someone goes ahead to do it. The more time that goes by before such a case the more likely there is going to be a better case to overturn some of that stuff.

        • LPH

          @JohnDoeUtah: I applaud you for not regretting the circumstances of your crime in that your son was born as a result. It’s important that your son knows you love him and will always love him. I do the same for my son (he wasn’t the “result” but was the victim at a very young age). Now, 24 years later we still have a great relationship, unfettered from the tyrants of the US government.

        • Mike G


          I am happy that you have things worked out so well. Unless this SORNA 2 comes back to byte all of us, your plan sounds good.

          I wasn’t quite as successful as you. After my conviction (I spent only 30 days in jail), I managed to secure two Associate degrees. We don’t have much of a nest egg, but selling our house will finance our planned retirement move out of the country. Just hoping to get off the California registry first (2021? 2022?).

          Our first choice is Mexico, since we already have permanent residency there, and own a partially completed home on the side of a hill overlooking the ocean. If Mexico doesn’t work out, for political or legal reasons (Mexico doesn’t know about my conviction and they don’t allow convicted SOs in the country, but their enforcement is very lax – it would take some kind of incident to screw things up), our next choice is Europe.

          We have traveled to most of the countries in Europe, and each has its good points and bad points. I found Croatia to be the most interesting to visit, and Serbia would probably be one of the cheapest places to live. Anecdotally, Germany may be the easiest to get residency. Our favorite place right now, though would probably be the island of Medeira, part of Portugal, but physically actually closer to Africa. The people there were extremely friendly, the island is beautiful, and the climate is pretty nice year round. Also, they are looking for retirees to come there, and even offer 10 years of tax breaks. I doubt that my conviction would be a problem if I were able to explain my “crime” to an individual, rather than have it be offense based by statute number. Also, I was told that only criminal records within the EU would be examined. I don’t know if that is true, or if it will remain true, but we can always hope.

          By the way, I grew up in Salt Lake City, went to Olympus High, and we have kids living in Provo and Laton.

          Also, by the way, I appreciate your insightful posts and your efforts to ferret out information, as much as that is possible.

      • Will Allen

        “Satan Watch”

        That’s perfect. We should never show any respect for these criminals. Everything that they brand, brag about, and feature in lying propaganda, should be re-branded. Everything.

        We need something for “SMART”. “SMART” is definitely all wrong, need something more accurate. If I weren’t so busy with serious work, and the occasional entertainment and venting relief of reading and writing “sex offender” BS (like this post), I’d get a web site to be a reference for branding. Meh, for now, I’ll just have to keep paying others to do most of the work.

        It would be so easy for me to walk away from this and never do any work/entertainment with it. I don’t feel it is exceptionally productive and I struggle with doing non-productive activities. I’m already very successful and take care of my family and others, but there is always room to improve there.

  45. Finally Retired

    @ M C, Will, JohnDoeUtah, and all –

    According to this SO Advocacy group, the IML notice applies only to those currently required under FEDERAL SORNA to register – not merely on the basis of a state requirement.

    And it seems clear enough, since the statute authorizes prosecution on the basis of an existing requiring to register under FEDERAL SORNA.

    Here’s a snippet of what they wrote –

    “As it relates to people required to register as sex offenders, there are three important components that concern us:

    (1) NOTICE OF TRAVEL – now you are required to report international travel 21 days in advance, (2) GREEN NOTICES – after you provide the Sheriff with notice of your intent to travel, they send that notice to the FDLE (note: this post is submitted on FAC – you can substitute your state’s law enforcement agency), they forward it to the US Marshals, they route it to their “Angel Watch” center, which sends a notification called a “green notice” to Interpol or directly to the immigration agency of the receiving country notifying them of your travel, and (3) BRANDED PASSPORTS – if you are “covered” by the law, your current passport will be revoked and you will have to order (and pay for) a new one that has the language, “The bearer was convicted of a sex offense against a minor, and is a covered sex offender pursuant to 22 United States Code Section 212b(c)(l).”
    Surprisingly, not each of these three concerns might apply to everyone. Different sections of IML have different definitions of who it applies to. In some cases it is “offense based” – if you committed the offense, it applies to you. In other sections, it is “status based” – if you are registered as a sex offender, it applies to you.
    The definitions section of IML contains the following definition, “Covered sex offender.–Except as otherwise provided, the term “covered sex offender” means an individual who is a sex offender by reason of having been convicted of a sex offense against a minor.” That would seem “offense based”.

    However, under Section 5 (the “Green Notice” Section) it says, “In this section, the term “sex offender” means– (1) a sex offender under SORNA; or (2) a person required to register under the sex offender registration program of any jurisdiction or included in the National Sex Offender Registry. That would seem “status based”. So, according to (our) interpretation of IML, you are covered by the law if you have ever been convicted (including withhold of adjudication) of a qualifying offense, but under Section 5, if you are no longer required to register, they won’t send out green notices on you.

    Section 6 of IML (the “Notice of Travel” section – “Requirement That Sex Offenders Provide International Travel Related Information To Sex Offender Registries”) says, “Whoever–(1) is required to register under the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act (42 U.S.C. 16901 et seq.)… As such, the notice provision appears to only apply to those who are required to register under SORNA (federal requirement and not merely another jurisdiction).

    Finally, Section 8 of IML covers the “UNIQUE PASSPORT IDENTIFIERS FOR COVERED SEX OFFENDERS.” While the title suggests the identifiers apply to “covered sex offenders” as defined in the definition section of IML (and would be “offense based”), Section 8 has it’s own definition of “covered sex offender”, which is: “(1) the term `covered sex offender’ means an individual who–(A) is a sex offender, as defined in section 4(f) of the International Megan’s Law to Prevent Child Exploitation and Other Sexual Crimes Through Advanced Notification of Traveling Sex Offenders; and (B) is currently required to register under the sex offender registration program of any jurisdiction;” In other words, the “branded passport” would apply to registrants currently required to register under the sex offender registration program of any jurisdiction who have a conviction against a minor.

    Why the multiple definitions? Who knows?!?!? Confusing? Certainly!!! But that’s what the law says.”

    • JohnDoeUtah

      Yes, I’ve been to this article.

      My only problem with it remains in what we want to see and hear, and what the government/courts want to see and hear.

      1) It would be easy to interpret the requirement as any sex offender under SORNA, which could simply be those defined as sex offenders in 34 USC 20911, which only requires conviction of a sex offense.

      2) It would also be easy to interpret the requirement as any sex offender under SORNA, which are those “sex offenders” currently subject to a registration requirement.

      I personally have little faith in #2. The intent of IML is to notify others of sex offender travel, generally, not only “registered sex offender travel.” It would not be a far leap to say that 34 U.S. Code § 21504(a)(1) would apply regardless of a registration requirement. They could still do this without the sex offender violating 18 USC 2250(b). Unlike the Angle Watch section, the U.S. Marshal section doesn’t seem to be conditioned on registration status.

      • Finally Retired

        @JohnDoeUtah Etc

        I’d bet FAC’s write up on this was either written or vetted by actual lawyer(s).

        My offense was lewd exhibition back in ‘90s in fla. while on vacation. Thus, tier 1 under federal SORNA. I’ve lived in Maryland all my life, where the offense is not a covered registry offense. I’m not on any state registry. But, I do appear on the National because Florida doesn’t automatically remove once you leave the state -Even if you have no connection to that state.

        I had been planning trips to Europe this year and next, and so I mentioned this to my own lawyer, who specializes in SOR matters in Florida. and he agreed that the 21-day notice provision, as written, specifically applies to those still required to register under FEDERAL SORNA according to their federal tier -and not merely because of a state-based obligation to register under state law.

        This of course does NOT mean that if you’re past your federal tier time of Registration that you can blow off notifying the registry folks of international travel plans if you’re required to register in your state. There’s often a separate state-level travel notice requirement that you may have to satisfy per *state* law. So you’d need to check with the state registry people.

        But as far as the federal IML notice of travel provision, according to FAC’s write up and my own lawyer’s opinion, this is a concern only if you’re still required to register per your SORNA tier.

        But … as you suggested, some knucklehead can still try to stir up legal trouble. So My advice – check with a knowledgeable SOR attorney and have them write up an opinion/legal memo before flying out. And carry it with you on your travels.

  46. cb

    I know there hasn’t been much activity lately, but I have an important question. It is often stated that Europe and particularly Germany tends to let SOs in. I keep reading stuff like this:

    stating that Germany will not let you in if you had a serious offense and/or served 3 or more years. That would be me. Yes, I’ve seen the videos from the guy in Germany, but he also had his conviction overturned so he really isn’t in the same situation.

    Anyone have any information? Thanks

    • Gralphr

      NO, the guy did NOT have his conviction overturned. I went there earlier this year and they allowed me in. I did close to 7 years in prison and my conviction was 20 years ago. Yes, I was stopped and questioned by the polizei, but they thanked me for being truthful and allowed me in. In one of his videos, he was speaking about me. I was actually told that due to my conviction being so old I should be left alone to go on with my life.

  47. Mike G


    This is definitely a concerning article for those of us who are looking to escape to Europe for work or retirement.
    The problem appears to be “The German Residency Act. §§ 53 – 54”
    “[It] provides the basis for when having a criminal record can prevent a person’s successful residency permit application to Germany. For major crimes such as those involving violence, threats of violence and sexual offences as well as those involving terrorist activities, this is deemed to be a serious issue of concern. These are deemed enough of a concern to not allow the applicant to come to Germany or to gain a residence permit.”

    Here we go again (sounds just like the USA, now). All “sexual offenses” are major crimes, from peeing on the side of the road to infant rape, right up there with terrorism, with no differentiation, no assessment or explanation? Hard to believe it is that cut and dried.

    I guess maybe you would have to contact this or some other legal firm with immigration experience and get an opinion from them before putting all your eggs in one basket. I wonder if they would give an honest opinion up front, or just string you along while they “worked” to get your application approved.

    • Gralphr

      I could be wrong, but the Polizei told me I should be left alone since my conviction was 20 years ago and no problems since, and I was allowed into the country even though I told them I would also be looking for work. Maybe they base their decisions on age of conviction. I’ll be going back on a 6 month job seekers visa once Americans are allowed to enter, so I will find out.

      • Mike G


        Thanks for that information. That is more encouraging. I’ve been in Germany four times in the last two years, last time in February. I have never been questioned by the Polizei, but of course I never said anything about wanting to work there or move there – it was just vacation.

        As I’ve said many times, anytime you can actually talk to a human who has decision-making authority, and explain what you actually did to get convicted, especially if it was a long time ago, you will probably be welcomed to join their society and move on with your life.

        Looking forward to your report from your next trip.

    • JohnDoeUtah

      I looked into this and Section 54 specifically calls out Section 177 of the Criminal Code, which is rape. Section 54 does not call out any other sexual offense in its language. Sections 52-53 do not specifically say anything about sexual offenses.

      I have emailed with the individual in Germany and he does have a conviction and is required to register in the U.S. One thing to remember is that the age of consent in Germany is 14, therefore many in the U.S. would not be viewed as criminals when comparing the offenses.

      • Mike G


        Sounds like you are right on top of this, as usual. While Germany isn’t my first choice in Europe, I’m hopeful that successful experiences there bode well for success in other European countries.

        • Redeemed1

          Want to say thanks to those who referenced the YT person who talks about Germany. I’ve watched a few of his videos and almost fell out of my seat when he’s told stories how people over there have helped him, and not hindered him. Not used to that.

          In one of his videos he talked about getting his background check for a job (I believe close to when he arrived). He said that they only checked Germany, and hence came back clean. That part was encouraging. Not sure if the residency (and possibly eventually becoming a citizen) will be different. Not sure if he discusses that in videos I haven’t seen yet.

        • JohnDoeUtah


          For context, see

          I talked to a German Lawyer in the U.S. who helps German citizens here complete their legal obligations back home (i.e., taxes, visa, passports, etc.). He stated that he helped someone in our situation get permanent residency in the early 2000; but, that they were in limbo on the citizenship due to time since conviction (you can get citizenship after 8 years as a permanent resident.).

          Section 34 states that Crimes under Sections 174 to 180 of the Criminal Code are not included in “Good Conduct” letters for employment after 10 years (that’s if you had a conviction in Germany, assuming your U.S. conviction would be seen in the same light).

          Section 46 states the Crimes under Sections 174 to 180 of the Criminal Code are deleted after 20-years (means they are spent).

          So, it appears that after 20 years since the conviction, it likely would not be used against you when trying to obtain residency/citizenship. See, Section 51.

          However, I do take back my previous statement on the visa application not being contingent on a sex offense against a minor. That in Germany is known as an “offense against sexual self-determination,” and is listed in the reasons to expel a foreigner. Whether they count foreign convictions is not so clear, or if the offense must be committed in Germany.

        • PK

          @JohnDoeUtah Would you mind sharing the name of that Attorney?
          Or perhaps if we could exchange emails privately?

  48. A.D.A.T.

    For those wanting to compare the German system of justice to the U.S. , this link, while dated and not covering many sex crimes specifically, does give you an idea of the country’s approach to crime. It is considered much more progressive and humane than the U.S.

    • Mike G

      Quite an interesting study!

      It would seem like the only sex crime that was a felony in Germany at that time was Forcible Rape.

      I would sure like to see a contemporary re-do. On the US crimes side, more serious (it would seem) than Forcible Rape, you would have Statutory Rape, Child Sexual Assault, Child Molestation, Child Pornography (possession, production, distribution), and probably others I can’t think of.

      I wonder if the German side would come close to matching the US top sex crimes in comparison.

      • A.D.A.T.

        Germany has intensified it’s efforts as well as it’s punishment of sex offenses to fall in line with the international community. That doesn’t mean that they have become as draconian as the “Big 4”, but still are looking at curbing the main focus of trafficking. That being said, many European countries have the,”In totality” approach. The nature of offense, time elapsed since the offense, and the initial adjudication of offense ( felony, misdemeanor ) in the country you are entering all have bearing. For instance, I have been told be an immigration attorney with some knowledge in that area that my misdemeanor C.P. charge of almost 6 yrs ago will literally have no bearing on applying for permanent residence status in the countries I have chosen, while applying for citizenship could entail more work. Not really a major concern, unless you want to deal with notifications EVERY time you decide to board an airline.
        Bottom line is the rules are currently different in Europe, but are changing. Be glad the political climate there is more focused on providing work and political party infighting rather than oppressing it’s citizens. Also, if you read the entire report, the judicial system, and by that I am referring again to Germany’s, is much more direct and stable, since law enforcement and prosecutorial entities have much less (if any) say in regards to the offense and any additional punishment. There, the law is handled by the judge(s), and there is no room left for interpretation. All districts, (like our states) have to abide by the judge’s ruling.
        In Summary, do your due diligence in finding out the laws of the country you wish to enter and possibly live. You will be giving up certain privileges you may be partial to, but what you are gaining is, in my humble opinion, worth it. We have been subjected to sacrifices on a scale most people will never experience, EVER! To do this would put us in the company of immigrants from oppressed countries around the world.
        Good luck which ever way you choose to proceed.

        • Mike G


          Thanks for all your info and insights. Every thing we can learn helps determine our path toward the future. Right now, I think a move to Germany, or another similarly minded European country, looks doable for many of us. But, there is so much uncertainty we live with. When will the damn virus go away? When will my friendly neighbor suddenly see my mugshot on the internet and think I just committed my “crime”? Will the new Europe visa screw up all our plans? Does it matter to us who wins the November election? Would conservative “strict constitutionalist” Supreme Court justices recognize our punishment and ex-post facto issues or would liberal Supreme Court justices have more empathy toward us? Will SORNA 2 put people back on the registry who had gotten off, and will it switch 40,000 California registrants who look to get off the registry as Tier 2 members, up to Tier 3 members and lifetime registration because their offense involved a minor? Will Mexico start scanning US passports when we cross the border?

          To try to take my mind off all this uncertainty, my wife has already scheduled for us 4 cruises and 2 land excursions for 2021-2022, so patience and hope are my goals.

  49. S J

    Just got back from Mexico city. Never been out of the country or had pasport during my 10 yrs of registration. New passport flew into Mexico sept 4th and flew back sept 7th. No second look from anyone anywhere. Breezed right through both. ORD TO MEX

    • David

      @ SJ: But did you provide the required 21-day advance notice of international travel? No need to answer. (If you had done so, I doubt you would have been admitted to Mexico. Mexico would have received a “green notice” in advance of your arrival and you would have been refused entry.)

      • S J

        why would I provide 21 day notice. Im off the registry in Minnesota. I dont think I even could. I am also a felon with dui (4) so I’m unsure what the travel matrix means by mexico bans felons.
        Furthermore I have been outside of the us on closed loop cruises while I was registered. I never had a problem with any cruise line. That being said I used id and birth certificate. I always figured they use your passport number to screen. Hope this helps ppl

        • M C

          @S J, Minnesota is a special case. Cruise lines likely look at the national registry. Because level 1 and 2 offenders (and unassigned level offenders if in the case you didn’t go to prison) are private information there is probably no way for the cruise line to even look that up. Only a level 3 or “absconder” wwould appear on the national or state public database. MN alalso does not currently take notices for international travel.

        • Mike G

          @S J

          Congratulations on your successful trip to Mexico. By all rights, you shouldn’t have had any trouble because Satan Watch (sorry I can bring myself to call them angel watch) says that they only send out notices to the police or border patrol of the country you are visiting if you are currently required to register. There is always the possibility that the U.S. Marshall’s office could ask Interpol to send out a green notice based on the fact that you have a conviction record, but I don’t know how they would know about your trip as I don’t think they routinely scan the airline manifests like Satan Watch does. Also, I highly doubt that the passport scanning systems in Mexico have automatic direct access to the US criminal database (NCIC) or the national sex offender registry.

          The 21-day notice is a whole other matter. I still have not heard a convincing occasion of someone being turned around in a foreign country because they filed a 21 day notice. I believe that 95% RCs who are turned away from a foreign country are refused entry as a direct result of Satan Watch notifying the country’s police or border patrol of their pending arrival. I know that was the case the one time I was turned around.

          Best I can tell, there are two different 21-day notices. The first kind has been around for many years and were required to be filed by RCs in SORNA compliant states whenever they planned on leaving the country. The second kind of 21-day notice is the one required relatively recently by the passage of IML. Before IML, RCs in California were not required to file a 21-day notice. When IML started being enforced, California informed its RCs that they had to start providing the 21-day advance notice to comply with IML. When I started turning in my 21-day notices, they would make a copy, stamp it received, hand me the copy, and tell me the original would be placed in my file. In other words, it didn’t go ANYWHERE! Maybe the first kind of 21-day notice was being sent to Satan Watch or some other agency, but the second kind probably wasn’t. That said, the last two times I turned in notices, the officer said he was going to upload the information online. So maybe the two kinds of notices have now merged into one kind.

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