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General Comments September 2020

Comments that are not specific to a certain post should go here, for the month of September 2020. Contributions should relate to the cause and goals of this organization and please, keep it courteous and civil. This section is not intended for posting links to news articles without additional relevant comment.

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Dont know how many are aware of this but i was super suprised and shocked when i found out even though i should not of been.

we all seen press conference where the US holds and say they denounce human rights violation that was drafted in i think 1966 but finally signed by many countries in 1976 BUT THE UNITED STATES NEVER AGREED TO IT! and yet the US Gov. holds press conferences to call out and report other countries for something that the US is not even part of! What a smoke and Mirror BS

This year people on the registry should pass the one million mark. That is quite a political force if channeled. If all of us know about 5 or 10 people that know we are honest people, good workers, dependable friends, trust worthy family members then that brings our support to over five or ten million people. Plus nation wide there are numerous groups like ACSOL and Once Fallen working on our behalf. As I have seen in my life every discriminated group speak out and finally gain respect and equality, I have to conclude that people on the registry are about the only group remaining that is fair game for discrimination and abuse. I have to believe that if we continue on and continue to gain more support it is only a matter of time until the pendulum swings the other way, and it already is. ACSOL has had one victory after another, as well, numerous victories have been gained around the nation. We have the advantage because it is simply morally wrong to categorize everyone in a group the same, and punish them all for life for something that happened in the past. Most of us paid an enormous debt and just want to live a normal life. That isn’t too much to ask. Keep pushing ahead in any way you can.

I’ve been pushing for a long time and don’t expect to stop. I’m making the Registries really, really cost. The criminal regimes were extremely dumb to fantasize that they could Register me and not pay consequences forever. And they’ve gotten nothing useful from it. Maybe kept a couple of people employed? Nothing else.

If I ever find out that I have a terminal disease, I’ll probably give my assets away, not tell anyone where I am going, and disappear. I’d love to cost the criminal regimes millions of dollars to look for me. But doubt they would. I’m sure I could relocate myself somewhere they’d never know and just die where they wouldn’t find me. That would be appropriate. I’m also sure that even if they never looked for me, I could cost them millions of dollars without too much effort. Probably tens of millions. That would be a shame.

What I think the criminal politicians and Registry Supporters/Terrorists (RS/Ts) want is that they can pass their harassment “laws”, etc., and then they will just all exist and they can live in peace. That is what they want. But that is what people should never, ever allow. People should complain and push back against the Registries on a daily basis. Personally, I want to make RS/Ts so sick of it that all they have to do is hear the word “Registry” and they will start throwing up uncontrollably. That is what I want. To make them sorry they ever started their harassing Hit Lists.

Im sure there are some places where you can find/hire someone to hide you.
Maybe in a secret room or basement where it is hard to find the entry door.
the catch would be you would be all alone down there.
No contact with the outside
just TV and food/drink to keep you alive.

Hi everyone,
2 questions:

Great news to hear that Bill 145 was passed and now the governor will decide to pass it or to veto it, right?

I know that the bill states that if the minor was no more than 10 yrs older than the person he/she was involved with, the judge has the discretion to then decide wether the individual registers or not. In my case at the time of my offense I was 26 and the minor(she) was (15yrs-old), she was also a mother of a 5 month-old when I met her (it was a consensual relationship). Can this in anyway play a role for when I go and appeal the court in my district? I believe I’m tier 2 (20yrs registration).

I don’t see how this would help you as this bill only modifies the law in regards to gay relationships, not relationships in general. Judges already had this 10-year gap leeway for hetero prosecutions. Also, you have an 11 year gap based on what you said. It’s also highly unlikely any judge would choose to exercise this clause for anyone who was 25 and the victim was 15. It’s more in cases of something like a 16-17 year old and a 18-19 year old. People in this range basically go from having a legal relationship to suddenly an illegal one. At no point would a 25-year-old person would’ve been able to have a legal relationship with someone thats 15, regardless of how far back it goes (you’re not going to be a 15 year old in a relationship with a 5 year old, or a 20 year old with a 10 year old).

I posted this on another forum but thought I should update it here since it happened to me this month. I did my annual and I asked the officer about the process for Tiered Registry come Jan. He informed me that I would need to subpoena the local court and the city police station to begin the process. He said without a subpoena they cant provide anything for the courts to make a final determination on my case. He said the fee is around $35 and I can do it myself to save money. I live in LA County (Pomona will be the court I subpoena) and the process can take up to 60 days depending on what the courts have going on. I’m not sure if anyone else has been told any information. The officer said he’s told several registrants with various convictions the same process is for all.

@NewJustice – The person who told you that you will need a subpoena to petition for removal under the Tiered Registry Law doesn’t know what he is talking about. In order to file a petition, you will only need proof that you are currently registered. You can obtain that proof for free when you register in 2021. There will be a petition form to fill out and that form will need to be filed in the county superior court where you reside with copies mailed to the DA’s office and the place where you register. ACSOL will conduct “classes” in which we help individuals fill out their own petition forms. No need to hire an attorney to do that.

@Janice Thank you in advance for the classes. I try to donate monthly as your time and information is valuable.

Thanks, Janice! You provide a reassuring voice in a turbulent time.

@Janice,

Thank you so very much!

A question about the whole petition process, what if the DA wishes to contest your petition, then is there enough time to get an attorney for that court date?

New Person, I don’t see how that question can be answered because I’m not sure all the details of the petition process has been worked out and this Covid19 virus has completely changed the timing of the court system. I think we will all have to wait until the first few petitions go through the court system and how each County handles it. Nothing about the court system is currently working as it should right now. Especially with timing. “Enough time to hire a lawyer” is a vague messure of time.

@New Person – If the DA objects to a petition, a court hearing will be set and we highly recommend that you have an attorney to represent you. Court hearing dates can always be delayed upon request. Therefore, I believe in most cases there will be plenty of time to hire an attorney after you receive notice of the court hearing.

The last person you should get legal advice from is a police officer. Cops are not educated enough to give legal advise. Everything about sex offender laws is very complex and you should only consult a lawyer that dedicates their law practice to this issue (Like Janice & Chance).

I recommend anyone traveling to Europe watch the “common sense laws” series of videos on youtube. Really helpful and told from a man that is an RSO, but of course only in the good old U.S. of A.

== CA tiered news & inquiry ==

I asked my local registering officer PD about receiving my tiered status at the station and the worker said that it’ll be the DOJ that will be mailing it out to everyone. Welp, this is news to me because I thought we had to pickup our tiered info at our local PD.

Any new info on this from others or ACSOL? Thx in advance!

No, it’s never been the cops that were going to notify you. They have nothing to do with it.

@New Person – No, the DOJ will not mail you or anyone else a letter stating the tier to which you have been assigned. Instead, the tier assignment letters are to be placed in a database that is available to all local registration offices. All registrants will need to go to the office where they register and request their tier assignment letter. This information is directly from the DOJ and is included in a document posted on the website of the Attorney General in January 2020. It was also previously announced on this website, however, it is easy to miss. Therefore, we will continue to remind everyone of these facts including in our upcoming monthly phone meeting on September 12.

Janice, thanks for the correction.

Janice,

Thank you! I told the person exactly what you said, but the law enforcement worker said it would be mailed out. This is why I asked on here again to make sure what the correct procedures are for the upcoming new tiered system. It is very frightening to know the registration unit is sharing conflicting information.

Again, thank you for the correct procedure.

What you said is near the top of page 3 of the pdf FAQ link: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/csor/registrant-faqs.pdf

FWIW — LAPD came by last week for a “random” compliance check. I didn’t receive them, so they left a card asking for callback. A few hours later, I called and spoke to the officer for a few minutes. I was struck by his lack of knowledge about how the Tier system will work. Almost felt like a teacher instructing a student. He didn’t even seem to know what SB 384 was or that it established the tier guidelines. So I would keep yourself educated as you have been and know that LEOs may be uninformed as unfortunate as that is.

A friend of mine was strolling through Instagram and came across a post by Kat Timpf, “ We send people to prison for a drug offense. They get out and get caught up with drugs again sending them to prison longer the second time. When the first time didn’t work because rehabilitation isn’t part of the system.” It’s something along those lines yet it’s true regardless of the crime. Rehabilitation isn’t the focus; it is greed that fuels the system causing more harm.

This is getting out of hand. I’ve been married for almost 17 years. 11 years married since I committed my offense. My wife has stood by me and both my kids are teenagers. People in my town on Facebook are posting the list daily under the hashtag SaveOurChildren and my wife has started freaking out saying either I need to move or they need to. When does this end? I’ve lived in my neighborhood for over 8 years with no issues. I have friends, I have a good job, my kids play sports, and I’m not doing anything wrong but yet now I feel like I’m being terrorized by this BS. Living in Michigan I felt like there was some light at the end of the tunnel with the court rulings earlier this year, but now I don’t know.

It’s been out of hand for decades. Truly, the Registries are nothing but idiotic, immoral, anti-factual, anti-reality, harassing nonsense. Supported by terrible, irresponsible, helpless “people” who think big government and a billion “laws” is their salvation. I use #SaveOurChildrenFromFactlessMorons.

I have been seeing the SaveOurChildren stupidity a lot more recently. It is a shame that the millions of families harassed by the Registries don’t have similar tags, mottos, or logos. People might see just how many people are fighting back. As of now, it looks like maybe 500 people.

@Will Allen

What sucks is to fight back means drawing attention to myself which I don’t want. I’ve done well flying under the radar, keeping out of trouble, and going about my business and living my life. I don’t want my wife and kids to have to deal with some dumb crap I did over 11 years ago and for some reason I’m still paying for, they suffered enough for the year and a half I was locked up and the other two years of parole. All under the guise of public safety when the reality is the registry does nothing to protect anyone. I only hope one day the registry is a thing of the past, but in the mean time I have to carry on living my life, being a father and husband, and providing for my family.

I hear you, but we all have to get over worrying about “attention”. Having said that, I only allow a certain amount of attention. I am outspoken against the Registries in public, but I keep my most insane actions anonymous and private.

I think the key part of fighting back is to first create a life where the Registries can’t hurt your family. Close up every vulnerability that you can. Neutralize their weapon. Being listed on the Registries goes on for years and years. One of the few good things about that is that you can perfect neutralizing them for years. In the beginning, it might not be that easy. If you really work at it for 10 years and maintain it as a goal … you’ll likely end up with something very effective.

All that time, you can fight back publicly. As you neutralize the Registries more and more over time, you can keep increasing that.

And for certain all during that time, attack from the shadows. I’ve said it many times that if I could actually be physically invisible, I think I could end the Registries nationwide within just a couple of years. Isn’t that an insane thought? But I do think it is true.

People who are fighting the Registries can be an essentially invisible, very, very large army, dispersed all throughout America. Registry Supporters/Terrorists are harassing your family. What do they deserve?

I hear you. Thats why we’re working on moving overseas. My conviction is almost 21 years old and I’ve been out almost 14 years and not on probation or parole. Its not fun telling your young children you can’t go to their school for their special events without risking a new prison sentence. This is nothing but punishment and it hurts our kids as well.

@Fuzzy, i know how you feel. Let me give you a perspective that might help you deal with the unfairness of it all. As a white man who experienced the white privileges built-in to this society, being on the register was a strong reality check. I am now on the “wrong side of the tracks”socially. I am dehumanized. The punishments keep on coming. I have to fight for my rights instead of just expecting them.

Doesn’t that sound like the experiences of non-whites in America for the past 500 years?

Although they still are shot and deported and mistreated by the racist cancer built into our society, non-whites have made huge gains in civil rights compared to long ago. They did this by NEVER GIVING UP the fight. They stood together. They supported each other. They still do.

To deal with the despair I feel sometimes, I drop my white expectations. I deal with things as they are and as they happen, not stressing about what should be. Think Serenity Prayer in 12-step.

When I focus on doing what I need to do now, my mind is distracted from useless worry. When I join ACSOL in calling, writing letters, showing up to events, and DONATING to increase resources for the fight, I feel better for taking action. I am not a victim hiding in a closet in terror.

I even feel hope. Not that a magical court decision will instantly change how society deals with sex offenses. Instead, I have hope for INCREMENTALLY changing things.

Big natural events like eruptions and mudslides often start out slow, building up pressures where you can’t see it easily. But as these forces build momentum, big changes happen relatively quickly.

Our success will depend on us all focusing on the small things we can do each day, both for our personal lives and also as part of the ACSOL team to fight for justice.

@ Roger
WELL.STATED
Well.heartfelt.and the
TRUTH; INCREMENTALLY
Thank You Roger

Exactly I’m from Texas and the same thing here is going on with this Facebook page I think that it’s ridiculous and not right how this page operates by exposing pictures, addresses of sex offenders which puts sex offenders in jeopardy of harassment, humiliation etc, this #Saveourchildren page shouldn’t be allowed too expose n share this info on Facebook that’s what the sex offender registry website is for, THIS NEEDS TOO STOP

@M

Makes me wonder if it violates Facebook’s TOS in some way. I get that it’s public information, but I’m sure there’s something in the TOS that could be found to shut it down.

I doubt it. I once reported a mayor’s page that did the same thing AND blocked people who were against it. Per general laws, government officials can’t block people on social media as that’s the violation of the First Amendment. FB found nothing wrong with either action.

@Will Allen

Luckily neither I nor my family is being harassed, but I don’t want my kids eventually being bothered at school or being shunned by friends. It’s one thing for me to have to deal with this crap, but I won’t stand for my children having to deal with something I’ve done and they had nothing to do with. I find the best way to fight back is to not live scared and not to care about what people think or say. I did my time, I’m being a productive member of society and have refused to allow the registry to hold me back.

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant by being harassed. I didn’t necessarily mean only that someone is standing in front of your home and cussing you out. Or “adults” are yelling at your children. Or whatever.

The very fact that you are worried about this is harassment. You said that your wife said that “either I need to move or they need to”. To me, that is insanely serious harassment. To me, that is more than enough grounds for actual war.

I think if you think about it much, the harassment is a lot deeper, widespread, and ridiculous than you think. You certainly can’t consider moving, starting a business, going on vacation, or anything like that without dealing with the harassment.

For me personally, I was on probation briefly for something well over 20 years ago. It ended a long time ago. None of these extra “restrictions” are acceptable. Not a single one of them. People can accept other people trying to control them and trying to force their family to live lesser lives. I’m not and will not. So there will be war.

Being labeled a sexofender is hard on a persons whole family and the sad truth is most families don’t make it thrue this nightmare.
Once a person is forced to register not all but the majority of them lose their jobs then their homes and then there family’s .
Majority of time in this situation the wife and kids are forced to move back home with her parents where you can’t be unless you regester her parents address as a place that you frequently dwell or be arested for noncompliance for visiting your kids at that residence every day.
Being married to a sexofender is a very stressful situation and in some cases impossible.
Every person labeled a sexofender in reality truely has nothing else to live for but to stand up and fight back stand with ACSOL and don’t be afraid to speak out and educate your community’s

Good luck

“As her post shows, Senator Grove voted against legislation that will reduce penalties for sex offenders who have committed certain acts and the post is not contributing to or sharing any information from QAnon,” Hector Barajas, a spokesman for the California Senate Republican Caucus, said in a statement.”

So they’re admitting it’s punishment. I say the scumbags can’t have it both ways.

@Janice – My husband will likely be on tier 2 (644 288(a)) has had it “expunged” and currently working on COR. Would it be possible or a good idea to file a writ once tiered registry goes into effect with the argument that crime was attempted but not committed as opposed to crimes committed that are included in tier 1?

Curious what (644 288(a)) is… Does 644 mean attempted, maybe? I thought 288(a) could not be expunged nor eligible for a COR.

@Mike G

Yes the 664 mean attempted, and as such there is path to still get a 1203.4 and therefore also a CoR.

The long and short of it Is that the California appeals court ruled that an attempted crime is not the same as the crime itself. Attempted 288(a) was not explicitly listed as ineligible for a 1203.4.

To be eligible for a CoR one must get the 1203.4 first … so until the new law implemented someone convicted of 664-228(a) has a narrow window remaining to try and get those while they can be had.

In December 2019 I got a COR for my 664/288(a) from LA Superior Court. My crime was in 2001 and released in 2003. If you need help contact the LA County Public Defenders Office and ask them for their COR division Miriam Singer is the contact person will need a report from a psychologist or psychiatrist on your treatment will still have to register until NEXT year when the tiered program goes into affect

I was fortunate enough to have my 288(a) expunged a few years back. My sentencing date was back in 1997, sentenced to only probation (five years). For the longest time I was under the impression that I was to ineligible for 1203.4 because it was a 288(a). However, I realized that because my sentencing date preceded the change in the penal code (it went into effect Jan 1998) that prohibited those with 288(a) from getting an expungement, I may have still been eligible, given that I qualified originally for the 1203.4. My research led me to a case in which the circumstances were eerily similar to mine. The judge concluded in that case that because the promise of 1203.4 was part of the original plea it must be honored, regardless of whether the promise of 1203.4 was explicit or implicit.

With the 6th recent rejection of judge Matsch ‘s opinion regarding cruel and unusual nature of SOR maintenance. I found the Surveillance saints plea in this piece predictable. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ex-fbi-agent-attacks-from-trump-outrageous-and-cruel/ar-BB18Jszx?ocid=AMZN

The issue, it seems, is in the eye of the beholder. Naturally attack begets attack.

I called my local PD, to find out if and what changes there were, regarding my annual registration, due to the China virus. The Detective in charge told me due to the virus,they were doing them on line this year. So she emailed the usual forms, I filled them out, signed them, scanned them and emailed them back. A couple of days later, she emailed me again,saying she had received them and confirmed I had registered and I was good for 2020. Has anyone else registered this way? BW.

If this doesn’t scare you I don’t know what will. This Florida sheriff needs to be sued and thrown in prison for this abuse of power. https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/police-pasco-sheriff-targeted/intelligence-led-policing/

@Brandon, Rather than discuss why why the Pasco department is doing is totally unconstitutional, I will say that I expect nothing different coming out of a place like Florida. This is the natural progression of things going from tracking only one thing like sex offenders to many more things. Since Florida has the strictest registry, its time for them to progress further. This one of the many reasons why (but they won’t) everyone should be appalled by a sex offender registry existing in the first place as eventually the targets aren’t just going to be sex offenders anymore as is clear from this article.

My understanding about early Florida is that it was a plantation state. Naturally then they quickly re-constitute it (indenture \ servitude) as a civil matter incongruous to definition under the 13th. Slavery itself was considered a necessary civil cause making liberty deprivation of the individual citizen for state revenue interest the propriety. Them being proven incapable of self governance.

Florida is one of the few commonwealth to NOT withhold income tax from workers. Florida gets is taxes by other means. There is a necessary human distinction to be made between a government having a database opposed to enslavement of it’s people to the machines insatiable maintenance!

Agent X, is it possible for the state’s database ever to be completely accurate?
Answer: No.
AgentX, Can you estimate the percentage of accurate information contained in states registry? OBJECTION
Goes to credibility your honor. Obj. Sustained rephrase.
Agent X, when you receive a DOCSOR 1796 from a registrant can you ever be absolutely assured of the accuracy of the information provided?
Answer: No.

How do out of staters with California crimes apply for removal. On all attorney sites , I see that a 243.4a sexual battery wobbler felony is a tier 3. How could we be excluded from Megan’s law Website but be placed in tier 3. Can someone shed some light on this situation. Can someone answer this question. Been registering for 23 years

Well first it depends on what State you are now in. Since CA is a Lifetime State, some States just follow the time period of the State you got convicted at. If your crime in CA is a wobbler, then you need to file for a reduction and expungement after that.

Since @Bam shared that he’s not listed on the ML website and Bam’s got a felony wobbler, then I’ll assume Bam was given probation and earned a 1203.4, but it remained a felony charge. A 1203.4 will get you off the ML website in CA. Bam needs to file for a 17B to reduce the felony charge to a misdemeanor. Once it’s a misdemeanor, then it’s possible the tier goes from 3 to 1.

But if Bam is out of state, then I don’t know how Bam can reduce it from afar. That’s beyond my pay grade (not that I get paid at all). LoL I suggest getting into contact with a lawyer from ACSOL, since they would probably know more about this.

@ Janice or whom ever ,I live in Florida I was convicted of a 243.4(a) wobbler Felony. I signed for 1 year county jail but judge over road the deal and I was sent to prison in California. I was sentenced to two years in 1996. I moved back to Florida in 2009 where the laws are hectic. However Florida has stated that I only have to register due to California and that when California’s laws change to call into the FDLE and that they would review my case for removal. My question for Janice or whom ever that maybe qualified to answer this question is, how do is out of staters who are required to register due to California and live in a state that has A life time registry whom states that I am only registering here because of my requirement to register in California. Do I petition California for removal in July 2021. Do I have to take a static risk test, what do I have to do to be removed. Most lawyers in California are listing a tentative tiered registry on their sites by your case before the Doj has posted what tier level that I will be in so it is very confusing. I’m assuming that even though I signed for a misdemeanor, the judge over road the deal and sent me to prison. I know that when you go to prison your case becomes a felony. I see my charges 243.4(a) listed as a tentative tier 3 on a couple of lawyers sites in Cali. I have been on the registry since 1997. That’s 23 years.

Question of the day,

I have been trying to pay forward some of my experiences and support to a new member of “The Club”. He is eligible for reduction. He has three choices:
1. File standard paperwork thru the Probation dept. and it could take up to a yr to get decision. No letters of recommendation or any other paperwork allowed.
2. File as a pro se ( think I got it right ) and stand before the judge and plead his case with supporting paperwork. The docket these days iss up in the air.
3. Hire a lawyer to represent him and submit same supporting paperwork.

He is an intelligent guy with good speaking skills, so I suggested he try the “Pro Se” route.

Any suggestions, comments, experiences?

If you file pro se or with a lawyer, probation will give it’s recommendation, pro or con.

If the person finished probation earlier, then that is a good sign the reduction may also come. (This pertains to what city/county you belong to as your judge, DA, or both may be lenient or see you as nothing more than a monster.)

For my reduction, I had letters or recommendation and probation had done a background check on me, which they gave the green light to reduce. I had a lawyer represent me. Worth it because in my case my lawyer had to kindly inform the judge had the power to reduce the charge.

Hopefully, others can chime in to give you more brainstorming ideas! Good luck!

@Tired Old Man. These general comments are interesting and yes you do have something of value for all that are involved in this ordeal in one way or another. The pharse.. Human Rights Violation, and also as one person said on here abuse of power. One wonders if authority uses or abuses?

Its like Flo use to say to mel in a quaint way ” Kiss my Grits” . One would have to censor that one as it could be taken the wrong way. Authority’s giving others the opportunity in all this online headache. Doesn’t sound like true Justice for me or anyother person. One wonders if authority’s have common sense today or is everyone wearing a mask today to cover up something.
Sure we would all like to get over all this confusion due to this registry crap that effects and stigmatizes those caught up in this devilish scheme. One could understand if they were protectring but a sale’s pitch is still a sales pitch. Standing up for True Justice is where the action is in legal matters.

Grandstanding LEOs. 🙄 FWIW: From the Huffington Post: “No, The Government Did Not Break Up A Child Sex Trafficking Ring In Georgia”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/government-did-not-break-up-child-sex-trafficking-ring-georgia_n_5f52b7a1c5b6946f3eb1c5d9?ncid=NEWSSTAND0001

@David,

We can see through the smoke because we have been having to do it for so long. People don’t know the truths about anything until they have experienced it for themselves. Society has become experts on any subject simply by reading a blog. Zero first hand accounts, and many times worse. If they don’t agree with an educated input, they simply ignore it or refuse to accept it as the actual truth. This makes it easy for mass manipulation of those willing to drink the Koolaid. Police departments, politicians, and corporations hire people trained to do this. The entire world has become a lesson in Smoke and Mirrors. Literally nothing is as it seems. We should take solace in the fact that the next generation of offenders will likely have it much worse than we do. The “Pendulum swinging” analogy no longer applies to our situation. This is now a “ Train heading for the cliff” scenario.

In this time of Covid, I see a theme across the country with regards to school season, business openings, and public gathering that closely if not exactly mirrors our plight, and that is the “One size fits all” mentality.
Many school districts, large and small, are being lumped into one big approach to re opening by politicians bent on portraying the pandemic as not dangerous, when science has shown that larger gathering are in fact quite the opposite. We suffer this as well, being lumped together with violent offenders because all of us are “ dangerous to society”. I watch these news stories and can’t help but wonder why the public can’t see the correlation between what they are experiencing and what we experience EVERY DAY! I guess it comes down to society not caring about others, but only what affects them personally.

This morning, NPR Radio broadcast a segment on individuals not registering on the sex offender registry. The segment was entirely anecdotal and took the typical path of melodramatically focusing on a few victims. The segment did not address the question of whether the Registries actual protect anyone or prevent any crimes, but instead gave the intended impression that offenses occur BECAUSE someone isn’t registered. The truth is that the offenders they focused on probably would have committed additional crimes regardless of whether they had registered or not.

@David

Is it the previous NPR story discussed here recently on the same topic?

Thanks @David. This is an add-on story to the story from Aug 25 (https://all4consolaws.org/2020/08/sex-offender-registries-often-fail-those-they-are-designed-to-protect/) using the same woman and her story.

From time to time here in this forum, we discuss electronic 4th Amendment issues to help protect those who are impacted by the registry or associated items. Here is another one where big brother is using e-data inappropriately and being told no by the courts. I’d say log out of everything on your smart phone so you cannot be caught up in this; however, I know they can triangulate with towers and GPS, if that is still on at the time (which you should have off unless needed and only when needed).

Creepy ‘Geofence’ Finds Anyone Who Went Near a Crime Scene

https://www.wired.com/story/creepy-geofence-finds-anyone-near-crime-scene/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

For my own safety from identity thieves and other data hacking criminals, I bought a “Faraday bag” (actually a pouch) on the Wish! app. Approx. $10 and it works very well. (And a handy item if you find yourself too “addicted” to your cellphone!) 👍

This is a YouTube video of recent protests at a house that a registrant lives called Slab City, CA. The entire Slab City area is government land that anyone is allowed to live for free because it is so hot, that the property has no real value. No utilities are provided, so everyone lives off grid. This is a place to go for those that have no where else to go. Registrant’s have often live and register there. The Police did show up at the protest and advised them how to keep protesting without breaking the law. What is interesting is that Chris Hansen sent one of the protest organizers a video of support to keep registrants out of their neighborhood.

Video of the protest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWJNv8ARq5w
Video from Chris Hansen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTMELOi2EQM

Absolutely one of the most frightening Vigilante efforts I have ever seen. Beyond that, I could have dozens of comments regarding the participants. Bizarre..

I just sent this message to the management of NPR:
Dear NPR Editors:
I am frustrated, angry and disappointed that Morning Edition chose to run a segment about sex offender registries that was clearly one-sided and based on the anecdotal stories of a few cherry-picked victims. The U.S. now has nearly a million individuals listed on sex offense registries. California alone has more than 100,000. AND approximately 20% of those are minors!! Sex offender registries do nothing to prevent sex offenses. Instead, they impose continuing – often lifelong – punishment for people who have already paid their debts to society. The Registries impact the abilities if individuals (AND THEIR FAMILIES) to find housing, employment, education and travel as well as reintegrate back into their communities.
Why doesn’t NPR take a bold step and present the actual facts about sex offender registries?? Instead of presenting stories intended to spark outrage without providing honest facts. (For example, 95+% of child-victim sexual offenses are committed by individuals known to the child – individuals who are typically family members, friends, teachers, coaches, clergy, etc – and who ARE NOT listed on any sex offense registry. Registries do nothing to prevent those offenses.)
PLEASE do your DUTY to present fair and honest reporting! For Christ sake, you’re not a tabloid!!
Sincerely,
An angry NPR donor,
David XXXXXXX
XXXXX, California

Dear David:

Bravo to you! I heard this interview/report also….and remain actually to angry over it too even write to you.

it was terrible, it was ugly…and no questions whatsoever as to why a mother with a young teen daughter would move someone in w/o some verification of what was going on with him with him just out of prison.

Jeeze, talk about being set up to fail….but I had a sneaking suspicion that a new accusation was simply a convenient way to get rid of this new man in their lives. She, the mother, was pretty blase about it all….

From his perspective, I can understand…out of prision, a place to live, a supposedly loving family without questions….he surly felt he had gone to heaven….but he was insane to accept this offer to live with mother and daughter.

Whoa! Enough of this, it all makes me crazy…lol

But very good Karma to you for taking the time to write this letter.

You are a good man.

Best Wishes, James I

Regarding the recent arrest of Brice Gage Watkins.

Does anyone believe he was doing this as a prank?
It’s hard to fathom that a 22 year old would actually want to have sex with a baby.

They also charged him with Child Porn. We all know that sending any type of sex video to anyone could be considerted Child Porn.

I’m talking about the recent arrest of Brice Gage Watkins.

You should read some of the comments on FoxNews.com

“Pedophiles can’t be redeemed, reeducated, renewed, or repaired to live in society……”

This is the mind-set of the public. Does anyone see this attitude changing from anybody that doesn’t have direct knowledge of the myriad of types of Sex Offenders?

My Life was threatened and I was called a “Pedophile Sympathizer” because I posted this on Brice Gage Watkins Facebook:

“Does anyone believe he was doing this as a prank?
It’s hard to fathom that a 22 year old would actually want to have sex with a baby.

Before everyone in this group chat want’s to murder someone and “throw the book at him” shouldn’t it be considered to maybe see the facts?

This whole thing about a video involvement: I would be curious to find out what his motive was. 1. Was he trying to tease, fuck with, embarrass, or humiliate the 1 year old on video?
2. Was his intent truly sexual in nature, and did the video show actual sex acts?
I would appreciate actual thoughtful comments- not hate filled comments because my “questioning” doesn’t fit your “hate narrative”.”

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
And Here is a sample of the nearly 8K comments left on Brice Gage Watkins Facebook:

“Pedos of a feather flock together. You will be under investigation too. You him and his sick friends. Have fun girl. You going down too.”

“Sick piece of shit. I hope you rot ”

“Rot in hell you sack of shit”

“Spirit of the devil is really inside people you sick🤮”

“Kill Him”

“May your breaths be numbered. You don’t deserve to live.”

“I hope to see you vomiting on your own blood and drowning in in your own feces after your asshole is turned inside out and your intestines leak out of you.”

“You sick puke!! It would be great if you could get what you deserve in prison, but you will probably like that. Maybe someone will shank you.”

“Welcome to the worlds most HATED person’s page! Not only the people in your town hate you but everyone in the country does as well. Even everyone in the WORLD Hates this POS! Oh, Your famous now – You are the Most Hated POS in the World! the Universe! You will NEVER have any type of job, nor will you have the Freedom to travel, and anywhere you go – You will be judged and hated! You blew your own life away at 22 years old and will always be on the pedophile sex crimes list! and every time any child is in danger, they are going to look at you first! How can anyone find anything sexual with some one so young and innocent – a 6 month old Baby? this makes you the sickest prick in the world! your life ended, You will NEVER have any kind of life now that is any good! Everyday when you wake up – You will always know that you are the worst kind of asshole ever to walk this earth and always you will know that EVERYONE hates you and wants you dead! You will never find peace and never find any place to live with any sort of comfort – EVER! Always on the registry and never a kind world towards you! Although I am not gay, but I still like people and appreciate as to whom they are, You have put another bullet into the Gay peoples lifestyle and made a lot of people hate more towards Gays … I hope your happy, Because you will never smile again! my opinion is that you stay in jail – protective custody is not a good place for you either, but the “Hole” is only one person confined in a small cell with one slat in the door to through your tray of food in! Because if you are ever walking ANY street, you will be not only hated but beat up EVERYDAY for the rst of your miserable life! You stupid fucking idiot, You had friends and family and boyfriends and n ow you have NOTHING”

Where are the spines of the employees of DOJ? What a disgrace this institution has become under AG Barr and President Trump. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/09/william-barrs-corruption-doj-is-getting-worse-where-are-mass-resignations/

Read the “opinion” piece. Sounds like a TDS author. There have been factual evidence of mail-in balloting negligence and operative mishaps, which can fall into the generalization of fraud. These incidences are not lies. For those in California, we had news of USPS unopened mail being dumped in a lot in Glendale. There’s double voting in Georgia. And, again, in California, we have more voters than eligible adults. In this particular case, voters means inactive and active voters. If California is sending out mail-in ballots to voters, then it has the potentiality to send it to inactive voters as well. There are 11 counties in CA that have not regularly maintained their voter database. Once more for CA, botched mail-in ballots for the presidential primary.

Link to USPS mail being dumped in a lot: https://ktla.com/news/local-news/bags-of-usps-mail-dumped-in-glendale-spa-parking-lot/

Link to more voters than eligible adults: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-california-more-voters-than-eligible-adults-claim-20170809-htmlstory.html

Link to 100,00 botched mail-in ballots, June 2020: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/california-tosses-100-000-botched-mailed-ballots-presidential-primary-n1233754

Once the author starts with a lie, then it’s difficult to accept the rest of the opinion as credible. I don’t like the fact Barr is pushing to retroactively enforce SORNA on the nation, but I can’t get behind this opinion hit piece on orange man bad.

Well, a few years ago here in CA, my girlfriend and I made the mistake of signing each others ballots. The local Registrar of Voters sent us a letter asking us to verify our identities for our vote. However, we were lazy and didn’t follow up. Now it’s a mistake we won’t make again. However the votes were not fraudulent and since we didn’t respond to the Registrar of Voters office, I see no problem with them throwing the ballots away. If I didn’t vote by mail, I likely would not have voted at all. Signing the ballot is the only way they have to provide any verification. No voting system is perfect. If only 1% of mail in ballots are disqualified, I think that is pretty good. Trump says mail in ballots will cause fraud, but he also votes by mail every election. The KTLA news report is a Federal crime and has nothing to do with election ballots. As an eBay seller, I know mail is sometimes lost, but it has nothing to do with major fraud. The San Diego news story is just an opinion piece with no facts about voter fraud. People move to other states all the time, but that doesn’t mean that anyone is voting in their old state and new state. It’s very hard for a state to know when people move out. Do you want Big Brother to watch everyone more closely to see if they move before an election? If you get rid of mail in votes, large numbers of the population would be unable to vote due to disabilities, vacations or lack of time.

There is no such thing as TDS. That piece of garbage deserves everything he gets.

To be clear- it was President Obama and the Obama DOJ that instituted International Megan’s Law.
You know the one where they are marking RSO’s Passports and sending notifications to countries of impending RSO International travel?

Pretty disgraceful if you ask me.

“To be clear- it was President Obama and the Obama DOJ that instituted International Megan’s Law.”

You know better than this, PK. You were here for the excitement prior to Obama signing it. Yes, he SIGNED it and we should hold him responsible for that but it was the REPUBLICANS who authored the bill and supported it in the House and the Senate with the help of very few Democrats. Further, it was not until both Houses lost Democratic control that it was able to advance through Congress. Every time that it was tried when Democrats controlled both, and then, one of the Houses, the law went nowhere.

This is a REPUBLICAN law! Make no mistake about it!

I’m not going to make excuses for Obama. He should not have signed it but then, on the other hand, once the deed was done by the Congressional Republicans, it’s hard to imagine any Democratic President refusing to sign a law that punishes “sex offenders,” isn’t it?

Newsom signed a new bill today that would allow some prison inmates to petition for basically a 1203.4 (probably something new but like that) so that they could then become firefighters. So that’s great! But, to no one’s surprise, RC’s are completely left out of this as they are from being able to volunteer to fight the fires in the first place.

Hopefully, this continued, blanket, exclusion of our group can be used in future cases, to show how strongly laws are forcing the segregation of RC’s from society.

https://www.ktvu.com/news/climate-damn-emergency-gov-newsom-signs-bill-to-allow-ex-inmates-to-become-firefighters?fbclid=IwAR0Zud_zsIBITgioN2fa8TC94lUDqVk7WetzIzKJSzNHdhocDzuPpFuC9H8

https://www.carboncourts.com/Opinions/jnanovic/CommonwealthvsGruver.pdf

Pa Court found that the registry violated the due process rights of an offender by establishing an irrebuttable presumption of dangerousness.

@JDUtah

Thanks for posting this PA Case. Very interesting reading, even if eye crossing at times, using an great unique tactic and angle to get registration tossed. I’d like to think Judge Matsch would be impressed by this and the ruling while expecting this to be appealed to the PA Superior court, next step in their court system before the PASC. Would be nice to see this tactic used to challenge it in every state and Fed District court on the state and Fed registration systems.

Whoa!

The guy used the PA’s constitution of “reputation” as defined in the PA constitution to get off the registry.

I point to CA’s “right to privacy” written into it’s own state constitution. It’s an inalienable right to pursue and obtain privacy. Sure, one can lose privacy, but the fact that you are incapable or regaining it is unconstitutional under the CA constitution. The fact that some registrants earned the 1203.4, where it states the accusation or information are dismissed, identifies the right to regain said lost privacy. Yet the registry continues to disseminate that private information.

Someone needs to bring this “right to privacy” issue that’s written in the CA Constitution to the forefront! I don’t know why we aren’t using the CA constitution to breakdown the CA registry?!

Now there is a Lawyer for the defendant that did their f’n job and provided a clear and concise argument with plenty of facts that could not be ignored..

Wish he was practicing in Ca. I would hire him in a minute to help me tread this cesspool we call a Registration…..

California AB 1869 is now sitting on the governor’s desk. One of the things it will do is erase some criminal justice fees like the cost of electronic monitoring. It is a large bill that I find difficult to follow, so I’m just going to post the link to my local newspaper:
https://www.record-bee.com/2020/09/09/spring-pause-in-legislative-session-leaves-bills-awaiting-governors-decision/

We should be contacting the Governor’s office in support.

Another inmate killed in jail for FTR. Now there’s websites selling kill your local pedophile causing more violence. How this isn’t punishment? I guess death either in or out of prison, violent or natural causes is our punishment.

https://lawandcrime.com/crazy/black-man-allegedly-felt-the-need-to-stab-white-male-after-watching-police-shootings-now-hes-accused-of-killing-his-cellmate/amp/

I saw the same news article. But I think the media mentioned that he was in for a registration violation only to pique readers’ attention or, worse, make them feel that he somehow deserved to die. It seems pretty clear that the killer simply wanted to kill a white person and the victim happened to be the closest at hand.
Of course, the bigger issue IS that it was the f**king Registry that placed him in harm’s way due to a “civil administrative infraction” (aided by the malicious intent of the prison guards, no doubt!)

The courts are a way behind , because of the Virus . I bet we will be put on the bottom of the list when we file to get off the registery

Do All States have a public website like CA’s, listing RSO’s?

All States have a public website that lists registrants. States do have different policies on who is displayed publicly.

Thank you

OK, Newsom has taken the first step to do something about sex crimes. How about going back and declaring all NON Contact crimes that were the result of a LEO Sting are now to be erased and all RSO are to get full pardons? If LGBT can get reduced crimes what about those of use DUPED (like Pelosi) into committing a NON contact crime?

@ Mot: The bill you are referring to – SB-145 – has one simple effect: it equalizes the penalty for similar sex offenses whether the involved individuals are male-with-female, male-with-male, or female-with-female. It does not provide any unequal or special reduction for any offense, whether it involves straight or gay sexual activity – it only makes them all equal and with equal punishment for the offenses.
Before SB-145, if an 18 year old male engaged in penetrative sex with a 16 year old male, the judge had no option but to place the 18 year old on the Sex Offender Registry, it was mandatory.
But if an 18 year old male engaged in penetrative sex with a 16 year old female, the judge had the option of whether or not to place the 18 year old on the Sex Offender Registry.
With the signing of SB145, the judge now has the same option in a male-with-male case – an option the judge did not have before. It’s not “special”, it’s just equal.

@David I was just asking if Newsom could and should take the next step and act on NON CONTACT stings by LEO If we look at contact crimes why not look at non contact next

@ Mot: The huge challenges would be: 1. Finding a lawmakers who would propose such a Bill.
2. Getting enough other lawmakers to vote it forward. And then,
3. Getting the governor to sign it.

@ David I think someone is using a bit of wisdom and understanding on that answer. I have to aplaude you on that one. One wonders today who sways to far from wisdom today or what should of Job taught us all in the bible. Those that follow the bible as best they can.

Oh yes counselors are good but who is the great counselor. Actually its a shame that many have to go thru all this sex offender ordeal. Myself I could of went to prison myself. Could of had to retake sex classes all over again but I didn’t. I can’t bragg as I’ve had my ups and downs even without being prison. Their is an old saying I’m sure we all learned in high school.
“Stone walls a prison make no iron bars a cage”. Are we all tested in this way.

Some on her here mentioning about this Harris lady and she does have spunk and of course she is thinking about others in this sex offender issue. May I ask you a question? who traps or attacks without warning or why do you think a lot of people were against the War in Vietnam, or if are we all trying to solve a puzzle even the riddle of the sphinx. Maybe we should go to the lady that was caught in adultry or sexual folly and find out if they stoned her.

So who is badgering today in this America today in all this game in much of this ordeal. Now don’t quote me on that as I put my pants on the same as anyone else but even words of wisdom are good.

Justice gone wrong in internet sex sting operation
or is Justice blind?

@ all I believe many of you all might be interested in this article I received a few years ago. I just found it among some of my paperwork I’ve collect over the years. Honestly I don’t’ know who sent it to me as it has been a long time ago so I welcome your views. Who knows some may want to see if they can get it printed in some of your major newspapers. Course I don’t know how that permission would go but take out the picture and I’m sure this will explain much if not all.

Justice is never served with a plea deal and especially with these internet sex sting operations? Question: Would a servant or minister of God be so deceptive in these so called operations?

There are thousands of people all over the United States being deceived or duped by these same Minister’s of God. Law enforcement would rather snag a would be person into this trap rather than preventing these encounter.

Are police actually protecting a real person or are they predicting just like someone buying a gun. Of course there is no real victim in these sting operations. It is just a deceitful game of cat and mouse drummed up by cops all in the name of protecting some imaginary teen..

Law enforcement get thousands of dollars each year from these sting operations thru fines, property, and funding from grants. What these stings don’t tell the public as most all of these are done in an adult chat room. I’m sure if one was looking for a teenager to chat with they would go to a teenage chat room. Real time situations are real time and internet situations are more of a con game and yes the government does make a concerted effort to lure one into all this.

Yes, law enforcement pose as teenagers on adult chat sites and sometimes bend the rules to get federal grant money and at times go a bit to far all in the name of protecting a fictitious teenager. They will tell you that teenager’s go in adult chat rooms but that is rare at best.

Those that have actually been caught up in all this will tell you that police will bait you to bring alcohol, condom’s, send dirty pictures, etc. all in the name of adding more charges to the person. Even if one ask to back out they will pressure and persuade one into meeting them. What’s wrong with these operations? Its time for people to stand up people.

Oh the picture in the article is a picture of Monty Hall of his game show “Lets make a deal” that I’m sure everyone watched. I will copy it and send it with a small donation to help. Right now I’m looking for Biden to press on in this grave election for President.

https://law.justia.com/cases/utah/court-of-appeals-published/2010/holt052710.html
https://law.justia.com/cases/utah/supreme-court/2014/20111056.html

So, I found something interesting. In 2010 the Utah Court of Appeals declared the registry a civil “penalty.” In 2014 the Utah Supreme Court quoted that case and repeated the same.

I think the Court is confused on the Kennedy factors used in Smith v. Doe. If the intent of the law is to create a penalty for a past crime, whether codified as civil or not, it is still ex post facto (See, Does v. Snyder). But, furthermore, they gloss over that intent is not dispositive when determining if a law is ex post facto, what is dispositive is the effect of the law. (See, Weaver v. Graham, SCOTUS)

Utah has never itself evaluated the registry using the Kennedy factors, it has always summarily ruled using the findings of other courts. But, what do you all think of this Court admitting that the law is a penalty?

@JDUtah

It would seem the courts and legislatures have no real idea (or have forgotten) what a civil or criminal penalty (or punishment) truly is and their differences, so I offer this to them for reference on the topic: Differences between Civil and Criminal Law in the USA (http://www.rbs2.com/cc.htm) (REF: https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/civil+penalty) “One of the most fundamental distinctions between civil and criminal law is in the notion of punishment.” There is a penalty or punishment in both realms given the outcome one must suffer regardless.

It would seem the UT courts here are critically thinking (slow that roll because it is out of line!) on criminal v civil and recognize the penalty aspect of the regulatory scheme on people. Kudos to them for doing so. However, they don’t condemn the fact people are incarcerated for a regulatory scheme (civil penalty) using criminal punishment which is against the very definition of civil penalty (punishment). I’d like to think that the UT courts here are not just falling in line with SCOTUS because they are the highest court in the land and being willing to stand up for what reality is when it comes to this penalty though stopping short overall as noted above. The Tenth could learn something about not just falling in line lockstep. If it is a civil regulatory scheme, then the penalty should always be financial and never more than. Unfortunately, society won’t tolerate this and will make sure officials will know of their displeasure; thus, requiring other penalties (punishments) regardless of the definition. (Wish I could set up a legal test and have it used to determine legal matters like SCOTUS did/does without verification and testing using scientific methods.)

It is sad in America where one human can dump toxic waste or use dangerous chemicals that infects or contaminates the human in the end causing bodily harm and, yet, only be penalized civilly, not criminally because causing bodily harm onto a human by another human in the streets is a criminal act under the statutes. What’s the diff when a human is impacted either way? That state and federal civil/criminal codes and the perp who perp’d the act and how.

@TS

Where I am going with this is that if it is a penalty, punishment. Then the question of legislative intent is answered. A civil penalty is a far cry from a civil “remedy” or “regulatory” scheme. A penalty is a punishment whether civil or criminal.

We then transition to the Kennedy factors. Attack its rational relation to a regulatory scheme, low recidivism. Winning on that we argue it is excessive.
It is tied to something which is already a crime. The effect is punitive.

There we have 4/5 Kennedy factors in our pocket.

As Synder pointed out, quoting Madison, hiding punishment in a civil regulation is the hallmark of tyranny.

@JDUtah – I see where you are going with this. Good strategy you show here and even better quote by Madison. So. Damn. True.

All – FYI: A civil remedy requires two parties in agreement as to the settlement. That is not the situation WRT the registry.

For others following along at home, the factors mentioned above are detailed from the case at hand here (easier to read if you open the comment and not just read the comment as one block of text, but to each their own) (Smith v Doe (AK) https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/01-729.ZS.html):

In analyzing the effects, the Court refers to the seven factors noted in Kennedy v. Mendoza-Martinez, 372 U.S. 144, 168—169, as a useful framework.

First, the regulatory scheme, in its necessary operation, has not been regarded in the Nation’s history and traditions as a punishment. The fact that sex offender registration and notification statutes are of fairly recent origin suggests that the Act was not meant as a punitive measure, or, at least, that it did not involve a traditional means of punishing. Respondents’ argument that the Act, particularly its notification provisions, resembles shaming punishments of the colonial period is unpersuasive. In contrast to those punishments, the Act’s stigma results not from public display for ridicule and shaming but from the dissemination of accurate information about a criminal record, most of which is already public. The fact that Alaska posts offender information on the Internet does not alter this conclusion.

Second, the Act does not subject respondents to an affirmative disability or restraint. It imposes
no physical restraint, and so does not resemble imprisonment, the paradigmatic affirmative disability or restraint. Hudson, 522 U.S., at 104. Moreover, its obligations are less harsh than the sanctions of occupational debarment, which the Court has held to be nonpunitive. See, e.g., ibid. Contrary to the Ninth Circuit’s assertion, the record contains no evidence that the Act has led to substantial occupational or housing disadvantages for former sex offenders that would not have otherwise occurred. Also unavailing is that court’s assertion that the periodic update requirement imposed an affirmative disability. The Act, on its face, does not require these updates to be made in person. The holding that the registration system is parallel to probation or supervised release is rejected because, in contrast to probationers and supervised releasees, offenders subject to the Act are free to move where they wish and to live and work as other citizens, with no supervision. While registrants must inform the authorities after they change their facial features, borrow a car, or seek psychiatric treatment, they are not required to seek permission to do so.

Third, the Act does not promote the traditional aims of punishment. That it might deter future crimes is not dispositive. See, e.g., Hudson, supra, at 105. Moreover, the Ninth Circuit erred in concluding that the Act’s registration obligations were retributive. While the Act does differentiate between individuals convicted of aggravated or multiple offenses and those convicted of a single nonaggravated offense, these broad categories and the reporting requirement’s corresponding length are reasonably related to the danger of recidivism, and this is consistent with the regulatory objective.

Fourth, the Act has a rational connection to a legitimate nonpunitive purpose, public safety, which is advanced by alerting the public to the risk of sex offenders in their community. That the Act may not be narrowly drawn to accomplish the stated purpose is not dispositive, since such imprecision does not suggest that the Act’s nonpunitive purpose is a “sham or mere pretext.” Hendricks, supra, at 371 (Kennedy, J., concurring).

Fifth, the regulatory scheme is not excessive with respect to the Act’s purpose. The State’s determination to legislate with respect to convicted sex offenders as a class, rather than require individual determination of their dangerousness, does not render the Act punitive. See, e.g., Hawker v. New York, 170 U.S. 189, 197. Hendricks, supra, at 357—368, 364, distinguished. Moreover, the wide dissemination of offender information does not render the Act excessive, given the general mobility of the population. The question here is not whether the legislature has made the best choice possible to address the problem it seeks to remedy, but whether the regulatory means chosen are reasonable in light of the nonpunitive objective. The Act meets this standard.

Finally, the two remaining Mendoza-Martinez factors–whether the regulation comes into play only on a finding of scienter and whether the behavior to which it applies is already a crime–are of little weight in this case. Pp. 9—19.

My personal follow-on thoughts: If accurate and current info is needed to show there could be a risk of someone who has broken the law living in the ‘hood, then by all means publish everyone who has a known criminal history so people can evaluate the risk of living in the area. (Well, she is a shoplifter and bad check writer so she may steal from our house or try to repay with bogus money. Oh my! These two have not paid child support in ages, so someone may try to swipe their own child. He’s has two DUIs, so we need to watch for his cars. That kid is mischievous, possibly affiliated with persons who are less than reputable, and gets into trouble continually. Crap! This is not our type of ‘hood even though we love this living situation which works for us!) So, let’s continue the path we are on currently in this country by separating everyone into specific categories (a new caste system!) including criminal histories. SCOTUS has opened the door to this, so walk on through with registries for all. Once this has happened, people and SCOTUS can only then see the idiocy of the concept in addition to the reality of what was used to create such a monster, e.g. overblown advocates misusing data and info to create false senses while ruining people for the ages (such as Jacob Wetterling’s mom has seen and reversed her stance on this concept.)

In reality, the registry is wrong and needs to be dismissed from our society. The concept has been around far too long. It literally kills people mentally, emotionally, and, sometimes, physically, unfortunately. They don’t work. Republishing public data under the guise of just sharing it because you can with no other motives is bullshit. People have a motive(s) beyond just showing data that goes into risk assessment of possible neighbors/neighborhoods. Legislators and courts know this but won’t say it. Registries are man’s sadistic way of retribution or bullying with legal and legislative condonement under other guises, IMHO.

Well, looks like Trump gets to appoint another SCOTUS justice soon. God Help Us!

Here comes our roller coaster ride: Justice RUTH BADER GINSBURG just died.
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/18/100306972/justice-ruth-bader-ginsburg-champion-of-gender-equality-dies-at-87

Rest in Peace Justice Ginsburg, you’ll be missed on SCOTUS. Passed away today according to SCOTUS announcement.

R.I.P. SCOTUS JUSTICE RUTH BADER GINSBURG

https://grandjunctionpolicedepartment.com/2020/09/17/gjpd-assisting-agencies-complete-sex-offender-compliance-checks-gvcopbeat/

This still happens after probation parole? I won’t even let them on my property. In my house? Crazy

I left a harsh comment on their GJPD webpage. I wonder if they’ll have the courage to post it. We’ll see.

I left one as well, but as of now there are 0 comments on the article. Appearantly only positive approving comments allowed.

@ KM: I just submitted this message and I bet they won’t post it either:
“Does GJPD also conduct any follow-up checks on individuals convicted of domestic abuse, aggregated assault, or DUI driving? I’m asking because those individuals would also pose a heightened risk to public safety and are known to have high reoffense rates, aren’t they?” 🙄

Hey!! GJPD actually DID publish my comments and other’s!! Wow, I am actually impressed! 👍

https://grandjunctionpolicedepartment.com/2020/09/17/gjpd-assisting-agencies-complete-sex-offender-compliance-checks-gvcopbeat/

@Matt, compliance checks occur for many outside of Probation or Parole. Whether they are done at all or how often can even vary by city or county. I know of someone in MN not on parole or probation that gets a knock on the door once a month. Here’s the thing. In most cases I don’t know that you really have to cooperate outside of probation or parole. You certainly don’t have to answer your door and if you do you don’t have to answer questions or even identify yourself (if you are not being suspected of a crime and a compliance check in and of itself isn’t sufficient to suspect you of anything) under the fifth amendment. As such I’m sure you could make such a compliance visit ineffective however there may be repercussions for being uncooperative such as an arrest warrant being issued for non compliance. In this case you’d probably get out of a charge for this though. At the same time there is nothing that stops the police from knocking on your door. They have a right to knock on it in the same way any other person would.

If a person is not on probation or parole, you can stop the “compliance checks” completely. You do not have to allow LE to knock on your door or get near you anywhere.

If they can’t “verify” the information without involving you anyway, how pathetic is that? Why would the general public or anyone else even dream that such incompetent people could “monitor” anyone in any useful way?

I think if people stopped allowing LE to get near them, it would really change the perception of the Hit Lists. Far too many people think that everyone is just fine with the harassment. A forceful, constant rebuke is needed. Even against the insignificant things like “compliance checks”.

Probation/Parole traits:
1. Check-in (in-person)
2. Restrictions, Limits
3. Home visitation

Registration traits:
1. Check-in (in-person)
2. Restrictions, Limits
3. Home visitation (Compliance checks)

Sure, the volume of check-in and home visitations vary, but they vary between probation and parole. That nixes the volume idea. If you go to college, registrants have to check-in with the school PD or local PD for that school.

The original registration restricted the information only with the local PD and was not shared publicly, and only certain people can come in to request information. Since then, it’s expanded worldwide with the demarcation of the passports.

This should be an easy comparison to show punishment by scheme. It should negate the ‘intent’. Colorado judge Matsch has on record an official of the registry admit one of the purposes of the registry is deterrence – which is akin to probation/parole.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then why are registrants out of luck?

@TS its all interesting. Even Tim in WI with his servitude comment . When all of the kids were growing up we had a black maid. One of my litte sisters actually spent the night with her. Her son went to Moundsville which was the state prison in WVA and back in the 60’s it wasn’t no picnic.

Guys use to tell me about proonytown when I was in jail and told me I never wanted to get in their at that time. See we seem to live in a culture of machines that seem to want to think for everyone, punch out data just like on the jetsons. Sure my dad had some people that lived out in the west so were’s the dividing line in government status with this registry or does one bring a smut magazine to church on Sunday for the pastor to endorse. And yes their have been a few pastors get repreminded for this. One of my studies when I was taking my course was Probation and parole. A lots changed believe me.

Now you all might not agree with me but Biden actually seems the better of the bunch and Ms. Harris also.

Many of my people I use to go to church with Once, Him and his wife owns a tire dealership and car service. I got a chance to talk to him and he said him and his wife are out of church for a while because it seems most churches are so different from what the bible understanding is all about. This is coming from a baptist view.

So actually much of whats going on today is sort of the pitfall from taking pray out of school. Protests shouldn’t be a problem if its a clean one. Sure the BLM thing was an irritation. The white cop had no business doing what he did and that set off a chain of events.

Many are upset with gun laws, and Virginia is going thru it also even Wisconsin and those great lake states have their problems. Much of this sex registry is way out of line in many area’s. My brother was a big gun collector.

Truly concerning. If this becomes common place and allowed to stand we should reserve our portion of the Consitution for wiping the floor. There was a story on either CNN or Yahoo! about an congressional hopeful that thinks that the right to have a lawyer when accused is not a real right especially when being questioned in connection with a crime. Normally I’d think he would lose but the article said he won the primary and is favored to win the election. Now this? How much will the Bill of Rights mean soon?

You know what really sucks? It’s when a repeat offender is busted for another sex offense. The guy, and it usually a guy, just doesn’t care. It brings all the heat on us law abiding one time offenders that are trying every possible means to move forward. The media keys on them as representing the whole “offender society”. It is what started this whole crappy registrant system to begin with. Once and I will hope for an epiphany or at least an effort. But twice and I say let other registrants have this guy for 10 minutes alone. I think we might hate those offenders worse than the rest of society does. Because it affects us more directly with stiffer penalties and more restrictions. I say to those people…WAKE ……….THE F*** …….UP! ( Maybe too much coffee tonight! )

People suck. Who can care if a person re-offends or not? Perhaps it was against a Registry Supporter/Terrorist and I certainly wouldn’t care about that.

If a person re-offends that proves the Hit List didn’t work. So good.

And what are the criminal regimes going to do? They haven’t stopped harassing my family yet. I should care if people act properly so they won’t try to harass us more? They are going to continue regardless. I gave up on the criminal regimes being moral a long time ago. Fuck them.

A.D.A.T. you are right on that one. You know I finely found out why things were a bit different for me when I use to get in jail but this sex registry is a whole different story. And yes I did get caught for a bag of hash but that’s another story.

Sure I was put in a swet box for disipline when I was back in school doing dui’s things of that nature but this was in my hometown. I found out that dad was doing the books and tax returns for the jailor.

Yes there were some times for me but than dad told me I’m not gonna bail you out anymore. See the jailor owned a gas station. I knew his son vaguely but dads at times can say teach that son of mine a lesson. Sure I had to straighen up my bunk was in lockup with many guys of all ages and even the otis campbells if you would like to call them that.

This sex offender thing is not a free ride or a road trip and many of you all know that. This P.O. I have now I have never met him and this last call in I ask him about my release date , hadn’t even mentioned to him that I had applied for pardon or early release, they have their ways to know these things.

My application for removal would take up to two years to investigate which is to me a coy in many ways. So if you can’t fight city hall on a parking ticket whos’ murdering who with this sex offender ordeal. There’s were your constutional rights come in and yes their are many good constutional lawyers that also practice in other area’s also but Janice and her team have a unique insight to this ordeal. Why do you think W.A.R. teamed up with them in many ways.

Course we all have to also do our part, or should we all stay silent. See when I was in my Criminal Justice I was with the same people that arrested me. Sort of wild isn’t it I wonder how that would be today in a sex offender situation.

Actually many that go thru this registry should get that chip off their shoulder. Sure I wish it was all different. And yes they let my uncle out of prison to go fight the war in ww I. way back when. I myself wonder what the difference was. People can get killed in war.

Question. I took a plea for one count PC288.4(b)-F, at the time my attorney said: it’s a wobbler offense meaning after probation we can get it reduced to a misdemeanor. So I went through with it for that and other personal reasons. So fast forward, I see that SB 384, it’s Tier 3 but as PC288.4(b)-M it’s a Tier 1. I spoke with four different Attorneys and they’ve all stated that I was misinformed and that PC288.4-F is a straight felony, and not a wobbler. Yet, I spoke with a different Attorney yesterday and he stated it can be reduced to a misdemeanor. Has another had a similar experience with this? Thank you for your input. Stay Safe!

If you werent sent to prison (county jail is different), you should be able to get it reduced as it doesn’t specifically state its a felony.

::: I am not a lawyer. This is just basic info. Consult a sex offender lawyer. ::::

There are two parts for a wobbler: 1) the charge qualifies to be a wobbler and 2) you are not sent to prison. If you were sent to prison, but they lacked room and made you stay at county, then that is still serving prison time.

If you were not sent to prison, then it is a wobbler. If you were sent straight to county jail, then it’s a misdemeanor. If you were sent to county jail as part of probation, then it’s a wobbler.

Your charge must state it qualifies for a wobbler, though. Looking online, that doesn’t appear to be the case unless it was agreed upon in writing on your case file. You are withholding pertinent information by not telling us if you were sent to prison or not as that maybe the most crucial factor.

Link to PC288.4: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=288.4

All I can say is for you to find your case for definitive proof that either your lawyer, DA, or judge stated it’s a wobbler at that time of sentencing. If you recall your case number, then you can get a copy of your minutes at your local court house, for a fee, of course. Then contact a sex offender lawyer to validate if your case is a wobbler, preferrable one off of ACSOL (this site) like Chance Oberstein.

Good luck!

Thank you. No prison time, I did 30 days jail time (arrest – sentencing). I would have to get the transcripts, the only recollection of the Judge saying “wobbler” I just went blank when I heard PC290. I just remember my attorney at the time saying don’t worry its a wobbler, and he’s mentioned it throughout my probation.

Thank you again for your advice.

No penal code states “wobbler”. Nor any paperwork. A wobbler is anything that can be charged as either a felony or a misdemeanor and doesn’t result in a prison sentence. Offenses that are felony only or misdemeanor only, specifically state that in the penal code (it’ll state “is a felony” or “is a misdemeanor”). Those that can be charged as either don’t state either.

The bummer thing about wobblers is that the reduction isn’t mandatory unlike 1203.4 dismissal, which can’t be denied as long as you meet all the qualifications.

Yeah, attorneys lie and/or don’t know the law.

@ jason you talk about wobblers and thats one of the reason’s I cut my CJ classes short and believe it or not I was in some of those classes with lawyers. So yes thanges have changed a lot today. Was talking to a lady from Woodrow Rehab and yes she said well their trying to do rehab today. So what are they doing in the prison systems with people on the registry out in CA to help the classifed as sex registrants.

I have to give my fingerprint every four years, go thru much of this stuff and itcan play on one’s mind if one dwells on it. So computers can be a bit of a hazzard form or is GOVERNMENT just as worst in many issues on human behavior issues many times, who’s doing the evil in many or much respect.

⭐⭐ FIGHT THE NEW SORNA RULES! ⭐⭐

Friends, better be prepared: If you were convicted of a 288 charge (lewd and lascivious with a minor) – as we’re 40, 000 California registrants – the newly proposed federal SORNA rules will require you to register four times each year for the rest of your life (regardless of any state requirements).
Now is the time to fight!!
Please make donations to ACSOL if you are able to do so.
We must fight this NOW before it becomes permanent!!!

Hey David,
Yes this much is true, but remember, federal law is not applicable in Ca as of yet. If Barr gets his wish and passes these SORNA laws, I am going to side with Chance per the meeting, and say CA does not have the money after covid to adopt to SORNA. We do not follow SORNA now, why would we start? What evidence have we seen so far that would show CA supporting SORNA all of a sudden? Then entire point of the Tier System is too show the registry is way to inflated. This inflation is coming from 288 registrants. If SORNA is adopted, don’t kid yourself here, you will have 288 for life, and though CP under Federal Law is a Tier 1 or 2, depending on the charge, CA will override Fed Law and place all CP at Tier 3. We will have what they call a double edged sword going on. We will now how a hugely inflated registry with little removal. Now, I could be wrong, CP might stay along Federal Guidelines, which I doubt, as Ms. Lorena Gonzalez will be livid that CP goes to level 1 or 2, more than likely CA would follow SORNA and State law, screwing many of us. So, I will put my chips on what Chance said, CA is not going to adopt SORNA anytime soon. Wishful thinking, maybe, but Chance is smart and I trust his instincts. Janice too of course. But like DAVID said DONATE AND KEEP DONATING. Even 5.00 bucks, just do it!

@David: Do you know where in the proposed rules they mention 288 being lifetime with SORNA? I’m trying to find it, but I can’t.
Also, what about if you were convicted of a misdemeanor 288? Isn’t that defaulted to a Tier 1 since it’s a misdemeanor?
Thanks for any clarification. This is so confusing.

@G4Change, I cannot find it also, but Janice mentioned it during the latest meeting and posted it online a week or so ago. It states all 288 with the victim under 18. It is insane really. And I am holding out that there is No way CA will follow SORNA, as of today they do not. The costs of registering over 50k four times a year will skyrocket! Let’s just hope Newsom doesn’t put his paw out for lots of cash to follow it. Maybe @JaniceBellucci can tell us where to find SORNA’s levels of tiers for 288’s at.

@John: So even MISDEMEANORS will be Tier 3????
That’s lunacy. That’s a MAJOR equal protection case if I’ve ever seen one!!!
In SORNA’s tiering, I found this:
“TIER III SEX OFFENDER.—The term ‘‘tier III sex offender’’
means a sex offender whose offense is punishable by imprisonment for more than 1 year and— ”

A misdemeanor in California is punishable by UP TO 1 year but not more than 1 year. Even though all 288 misdemeanors are wobblers, if it is reduced to a misdemeanor under 17b, then it is such for ALL PURPOSES. It’s not a felony, and it never has been a felony. Period.
Where the heck does SORNA have the right to put misdemeanor offenders into Tier 3???
This is insane, and it must be fought!!!

@G4Change, In Minnesota there is a similar thing but it’s applied differently. I’m not sure what the feds would say but the state supreme court ruled that if the underlying law broken is a felony it’s a felony for most purposes even though it may be deemed a misdemeanor. They used to allow this deemed misdemeanor thing to be pretty broad but now based on that decision it seems the seemed misdemeanor may only narrowly apply to criminal scores when it comes to future sentencing decisions only. This is not just a sex offense thing but it seems the court narrowed it when they expanded their expungement statutes here. Could CA interpret it like this? To me it changed my conviction in a way that is almost an ex post facto or at least a New York v. Santabello situation. I agreed to my plea based on it being a misdemeanor after my sentence was complete. I also agreed based on the fact the state would support my expungement petition after the sentence was completed which they did in fact do. The problem is that MN has split expungement to have two meanings after my plea and redefined what it means to have a charge deemed a misdemeanor. So I don’t get the expungement I was promised based on what everyone thought it meant then. I am also not having my case be completely a misdemeanor both of which I relied on when accepting my plea deal. I have been working on some pro se stuff to chip at these where I can try to but it’s not going to give me what I feel I was promised that’s for sure.

So is the democracy of Justice or plight of the sex offender tarnish or unrepairable? Yes Nancy Polosi had a good speech tonight. I admit that this registry issue is a bit of a wash out to America democracy and I’m sure we can also understand Nancy’s position in this Ginsburg lady and her salute to her.

Sure we are all not to say anything good or bad about leaders but we can give opinions. Nothing wrong with women in government but seems men want to over power in many ways in issues. Look at the way this registry is. Sure myself I never registered to vote but I am donating to this and also the campaign with what limited income I can mustar .

Women as VP don’t know if that would of went in JFK’s day and today I see nothing wrong with it. This registry everyone is going thru is a bit nerve ending for many and promotes parnoia if one lets it. Sure bringing back true government is good and nothing wrong with Biden even if some sex offenders can still vote and I don’t know about that since I never registered to vote in the first place but one can still contribute. This Justice needs to turn around in may ways, view’s of true liberty and justice.

Myself, and I’m sure all, look for the positive things to come out of bad things or do we all get off track in many ways even with keeping one’s car repaired at times. So full steam ahead and lets all help in tetting much of this registry abolished.

G4Change I give you credit for that one. see I’m a tier III if one looks at it right. So yes knowledge goes a long ways in understanding this and I still don’t understand much of anything. Maybe do need to understand my bible more or maybe we all do.
If computers guide our destiny than American Govenment might as well get rid of the red book as its old fashion.

KM you do have something their and so do many. The word is justify. Can a man justify his or her actions? See its not only justification but its the Revelation of the action in many respects. Now I used an example of Paul from the bible on here and I said Why did Jesus chose Paul to preach to the churches.

Sure many of you all are not content in your situations and I don’t blame you one bit for standing up for the truth in this effect & cause to cure in monitoring, so Janice and many are looking for cures to all this ordeal or should we put all this info into a brain machine or uni-vac machine or whatever they called it, and one hopes it comes out with no punches or holes in the card.

Hey people have gotten on me to get a spell checker but doesn’t everyone on here say the government should have a spell checker as well in this and many government view of Jurist prudence, or should we go with Montani Semper Liberi or Will’s slogan …. Don’t tread on me. I believe that’s Virginia’s slogan as I see it on many license plates here today. I don’t know what the state slogan’s is out in California and the other states. I into the tutorial states. Many of the other states were bad enough. We all at times have to look over many things but when it comes to government law Janice and Chance and many others are on the ball.

So yes standing up is very commendable in many of these ordeals or were is the birthplace of Democracy today in America.

I prefer Timothy McVeigh’s (and others) slogan of “Sic Semper Tyrannis”. Very appropriate for the criminal regimes that run Hit Lists against their supposed citizens. Those same criminal regimes that are too weak and pathetic to create Hit Lists for all significant crimes. They are too weak to manage those.

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