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National

OR: Starting in 2018, Life in Prison for Oregon Sex Crimes

NewscomOregon is about to enact one of the country’s most draconian, carceral, and unnecessary “public safety” measures. Beginning on January 1, 2018, certain sex crimes committed in the state will come with a presumptive sentence of life in prison, without the possibility of parole or release. Full Article

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  1. Sam

    I actually agree with this law if it only applies to the people who have gotten caught a second time. If they abolish the registry along with this that would be a better outcome. That way the recidivist 1-5% would be put up and the other 95-99% would be able to live constructive lives.

    They would have to refine who it applies to, as sodomy shouldn’t be as this would strictly target the homosexual community. I may be a bit biased on this because I was raised on the “you only get one” system growing up.

    As in break the rule/law once you should be allowed to be alotted that one mistake, pay for it then, don’t do it again. If you do it again then you didn’t learn and you’re on your own.

    • BSL

      I agree Sam,
      As a RC, for one minor offense (peeing in public) over 20 years ago i was so embarrassed. That was more than enough reason for me to stay out of trouble. The registry humiliation has had no inpact. It has only served to continue to make me feel harassed for 20 plus years. But I also have to disagree with AJ. My parent did time, 5 years for a brutal molestation for multiple years of his own children. He did half time. Great for him, right? Yep, he gets out and after only four years he has another child and spends the next 16 years molesting them. It took that child 4 years to come forward. OH! He was registered the whole time and followed every law so he was able to keep a low profile and not draw any attention, not even a speeding ticket! So, how has the registry protected the public? So now after being free for nearly 30 years, he finally gets 50 years straight time. He will die in there, as he is 75 years old. END THE REGISTRY! PUT BRUTAL CHILD RAPISTS AWAY FOR GOOD. It is so ironic there is even a thing called the registry. It actually had the opposite effect. Allowing him out, supervised so to speak. And continue to victimize.

      • AJ

        My point was that if/when they put people in prison for life for these sentences, recidivism will have to come down…because they’re all locked up. You actually make my other point for me, in showing that nobody comes forth when it’s Uncle, Aunt, Cousin, Dad, etc….and this draconian law will only dissuade people from being blamed for “breaking up the family” or “sending the breadwinner to jail.” Nowhere in anything I said should have been construed as supporting any sort of registry. If any notion was inferred, it was either my poor writing, or your poor reading. Either way, not my belief.

        • BSL

          AJ, I think you missed my points. Just to reassure you, I did not infer about (your) stance on the registry. I was speaking to everyone reading my post that I am for laws that give more severe prison times rather than having a registry at all. Two, I may not have been clear in my statement about my own dad. His victims, not me, were little children that did not report him because they grew up with this life, not knowing any different, not knowing right from wrong. I was never privy to the abuse although I had weird feelings at times and suspicions that something was not right in my house. When the victims in my house started to venture out in the world and had something to compare, they realized the injustice and harm that was being done. They sang like canaries when they had their first chance, Dad or not, it made no difference. He had even threatened them with harm if they ever told, but they did anyway. From that moment forward, and with the abuse that was revealed through the court trial, All 5 of us children wanted nothing more in life than to see our own dad rot in jail for the rest of his life! Well, as I said, he only did about 5 years, got out, and continued his brutal violent behavior on his next child victims. From personal experience, I disagree with you “only” where you say, no one wants to break up the family or see “Uncle, Aunt, Cousin, Dad, etc” – go away. I would venture to say that most encounters between adults and small children victims are unnatural, brutal and violent in nature and very damaging to the victims. There is no love lost on a monster like this. I respect your comments and do not want you to think I was disrespecting you at all. More so, I was springing off of what you said with some personal experiences and beliefs.

        • David Kennerly, "In the long list of all of your problems, I'm the least of them"

          “I would venture to say that most encounters between adults and small children victims are unnatural, brutal and violent in nature and very damaging to the victims. There is no love lost on a monster like this.” There is good data for believing this to be untrue. Your father appears to have been exceptional. Read “The Trauma Myth” by Susan Clancy.

        • kind of living

          @BLS ,,,,, ,, so let me get this right , someone molest children don’t matter if its daddy , uncle , MOMMY , SISTER , AUNT , TEACHER , your cool with them getting prison for life ? hahahah! but you can go out and murder someone and still get out ? or drunk drive and kill a whole family ? because you just went piss in public , SO’s get raped in prison too. and get some bogus program that they have to pay for , while our GOV is pissing billions of bucks off on stupid a$$ wars murdering children with rockets from miles away , rather than fixing problems here at home , your the monster ! and a big part of the problem of why RC’s cant pull together and put a stop to the registry ! if you did your time and trying to get on with your life that should be it ! you sound as if you know something bye fronting off your father about things he did , but the fact of the matter is you know nothing about being a sex offender , all you truly know is the RC end of the deal , when the fact of the matter is that a good many SO’s went and tried to get help for what ever their problem , and was told by at the doctor that they will have to report to LE everything ! you know nothing about the real prison time and what that level of punishment really means ! you don’t no what it feels like to be raped in prison by drug dealers , killer thugs , and it be thug CO’s setting it up, (do you ?) the supposed sex offender can look for no help on the inside , if they want to get at you they will . you get treatment in the years that your in prison , and as far as I can see there is still no real help , only more punishment ! all we ever hear about are the victims , while we are never victims , we stay offenders no matter what happens to us , just plant a target on our a$$’s ! our familys are not safe from the thug witch hunters , some of the very same thugs that we did time with , there is no where safe ! it’s still hard as hell to find a real home for many of us , you think LE is here to help us ? hell no they are not , where I live its all about LE looking for a body count ! so why not go spring off of some ones comment on friggin FB , rather than polluting what is already polluted with car salesman BS that some how some way everyone is like your alleged Dad , sell your victim crap else where , right now its all we can do to not become victims or staying victims our selfs , there is endless help for our alleged victims , (while we get a polygraph test as part of a bogus sex offender program) that’s it! you have know idea how easy it is for the state to blind side your butt in court and many end up taking plea deals or end up with 35 or 40 years , you should move to Florida you would love it , because if you cant draw a line between murder drug dealing thugs and someone that just may needs a little help that took no life , then you have a much bigger issue than just peeing in public , another little tidbit , by far most of the molestations are not violent, do your home work , oh and don’t worry I will LET you be better than me ,,,,, ,, Kind Of Living

        • Sam

          I think all crimes should be case by case….

          If a drunk driver kills a family they shouldn’t just get probation or a light sentence because “they have a family and a future” (this was the reason given why they let the person who killed my grandfather off without anything but a speeding ticket, as well as the man who killed four of my friends the first day of class freshman year of highschool)

          If someone murders another person the punishment should be equal. Even though people can reform there is no coming back from killing someone.

          Even as ex military some of us had to see and do things in the name of the greater good that would turn a normal person’s stomach.

          The current justice system is not just. Someone who sells heroin to kids shouldn’t be let go, you shouldn’t be able to turn in half a town when you get caught cooking Meth just so you walk Scot free.

          The system is all set up to imprison as many people as possible and turn us all against eachother. It’s ironic that is basically impossible to fix the government in the US even thought the constitution and the bill of rights say that it our God given right to overthrow an unjust government but currently it’s a crime to even think about it.

          Okay, I’m done ranting now. Anyway, this system isn’t right but people are so afraid of the consequences that no one will do anything about it on a larger scale.

        • NPS

          You completely negated your original point. How can you say that crimes should be case by case, yet in the third paragraph state, “If someone murders another person the punishment should be equal. Even though people can reform there is no coming back from killing someone.” The taking of a life (like sex crimes) also differ greatly from each other. That’s why we have murder 1 and 2, involuntary/voluntary manslaughter, criminal negligence, and justifiable homicide. The problem in our system is that the one crime that doesn’t get the case by case analysis is a sex crime where the system prefers to put everyone on a sex offender list regardless of the circumstance. THAT’S where we need an overhaul.

        • Tim Moore

          I have been around for almost six decades, and I don’t remember the term “sex offender” used much if at all in general parlance until the late nineties. I remember my dad hiring a man who was convicted of statutory rape. No mention he was a sex offender. Everyone knew he wasn’t the same as a rapist. There was some level of shock to that offense, but it was maybe a three on the one to ten scale, with ten being torturer/murder. Those kinds of distinctions are lost in the sweeping definition of the sex offender. We heard stories of rape and murder, but the main focus was on the murder part, and the sex bits added to the horror of it, not the main event. Ideally, the term needs to be scrubbed from the language and a good start would be for government to ban its use and go back to describing crime and referring to the convicted by their particular offense. That is not going to happen soon, the words have entered into the mythology of the culture and it is most difficult to diminish when it is used in official documents. What we can do is ridicule its use and diminish its relevance by using exact terms. It needs to be known as a term used by the ignorant and bigoted, like the n or f words.

        • Sam

          @NPS I should have explained better by saying murder. I meant those who willfully and callously take another person’s life.

          Or the drunk driver who plows down the road and kills a family of four, or the car full of my friends the first day of class, or my grandfather when he was working as a crossing guard for the school. Not a big fan of how they rule those cases as in each of the ones I had showed up to court for the judge just let the guy go without even probation.

          Self defense deaths are that, self defense.

          If you kill someone over money or drugs that’s murder. If you kill an ex out of a jealous rage that’s murder. If you kill someone for shits and giggles that’s murder.

          Sometimes it’s pretty black and white.

          I see what you mean about the contradictory statements.

        • TS

          @Sam

          That is Old Testament thinking we do not live in Old Testament times. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is not the way we live.

        • Tim Moore

          Not quite a thing of the past, some like representative Chris Smith, author of the IML want us all to go back and have a plan to attack the seven mountains of modern culture: business, government, media, arts and entertainment, education, the family and religion, and structure a state based on their particular view of the bible. https://medium.com/@jimesilverman/rep-chris-smith-blurring-church-state-ab7e3874386d

        • David Kennerly, Not Fully Contained

          Oh, this looks good although, it appears that the author would place Smith’s war on sex offenders as an exceptional, positive contribution. Thanks!

        • Tim Moore

          Yes, quite unfortunate, he is not an ally, but it brings up a question of hypocrisy in Smith. This movement that the representative is alledgedly tied to approves of adult men marrying minor girls if consent of the parent (father) is first obtained. I can’t yet find any material that directly shows his support for this, haven’t looked too much, but it is something to look further into.

        • BSL

          I don’t know what you are talking about. I din’t get past the first half of your rant. Yes, I think that murderers should get stiffer punishment as well as a lot of others. You are inferring a lot into what I wrote. I will not read further. You are adding to this as if you know where I stand on everything. You are taking a lot of liberty here as if I wrote a 50 page article of what I believe covering many facets of crimes and punishment. I am for longer sentences for crimes in genera esp repeat offenses. I do believe for most recidivism is very low. I was only focusing on what my dad did because that is personal to me. You have no idea what has been done to me or what I have seen. I will not respond further on this. Good luck in your life. ABOLISH THE REGISTRY!

        • BSL

          @kind of living. I did get offended and responded improperly. Then I re-read and apologize for accidentally posting my initial thoughts without enough explanation. Skip that. Here is what I mean it to sound like.
          Yes, I think that murderers should get stiffer punishment as well as a lot of others. You are inferring a lot into what I wrote. You are adding to this as if you know where I stand on everything. You are taking a lot of liberty here as if I wrote a 50 page article of what I believe covering many facets of crimes and punishment. I am for longer sentences for crimes in general esp repeat offenses. I am also for changing how are prison systems operate and would love to see a more rehabilitating environment. I do believe for most, recidivism is very low. I was only focusing on what my dad did because that is personal to me. Even though in my fathers case, he seems like a monster, I think there should be a different type of prison like a hospital that could make efforts to rehabilitate him. But this does not exist, so I wrote in terms of how things are now. I don’t want him coming out a 3rd time and hurting another small child or anyone. You have no idea what has been done to me or what I have seen and been through. Good luck in your life. ABOLISH THE REGISTRY!

        • kind of living

          BSL ,,,,, ,, Read and hear what ever you like , but when you really have no idea how easy it is to get a second case , once your on the radar so to speak it is quite easy to get a second case , with no frigging case , but you would have to live it to know that , but what about when the case’s that are not in anyway the same ? and in the beginning the police were just looking for someone that had nothing to do with a sex crime , and when you fit the description and the pull you in , and they find out that your a Alleged SO , all of a sudden it turns in to a sex crime ” Intent” and if you take the stand in your defense they get to bring up your past even know its not even close to the same crime , this is one of the reasons there are so many people not good for the charges that they are in prison for , there are many things you need to understand before you start slinging around harmful words , that are nothing like your dad alleged crime , giving tougher sentence’s will what ? feed the state , the state that don’t give a darn about you , your dad , or victims , it just wants fed ! there for they abuse everything they can , like keep people much longer in fake programs for years , some places have only let like one person out in the many years they have been open , those are the monsters right there , the very system everyone thinks will do what is right , (Wrong) , you cant just sweep people under the rug because you don’t like their crime , if its not truly a fair trial , then why are we even talking more time ? and if you cant trust that the programs to let people out ?, because the program says everyone is bat shit crazy ,because of the lack of over sight , what the hell , I have over 30years clean of any lame ass sex crime , do I feel for the victims ? more than you will ever know , , some RC’s are victims too , many times over , and now our familys are victims of state as well , and another thing I need to say is I don’t think your dad should have to do hard time , if they are pretty much keeping him for life and he will never see the streets again , is it not time to give some forgiveness , he should be in a lock down type of old folks home , its a bit late for punishment , losing freedom is bad enough , but to advocate for tougher any thing at this point is wrong , the system is already slanted as it is , we already have the highest prison pop in the world by quite a large percentage , I just don’t see that working , if they are not going to be constitutional in the courts , then I “think” we need to put a chill on that thinking , and start on bring down this registry and stop the punishment that’s been going on far after out prison time and paper , before we start advocating for anything in regards to LE

        • BSL

          @kind of living… Okay, I have only a few words. First, I have empathy for you. I can tell by your words that you are a unique individual with a unique situation. I can see that you may have done things you wish you had not, but you feel bad about it. It sounds like you have become victimized by the system which can be the monster itself. I have experienced some of that with my situation in a big way directly threatened and verbally attacked and treated like sub human. I may not have experienced many of the things you have, and the fact that you voice it here and you have been incident free for a very long time let’s people know that you are a different person. I truly believe that contrary to popular belief, most people do change for the better the older they get…. Most do. Secondly and finally, When you use the words your fathers alleged crime, it stabs through me like a knife. My dad is a monster in every sense of the word. Because I am a direct victim which I left out earlier and I was brutally sodomized when I was only 4 and still remember it like yesterday, I want you to know that there are exceptions to every rule. Because he took my kid sister into the woods as a very young child and brutally raped her until there was a substantial amount of physical damage as well as molested many other victims and then continued for nearly 30 years after being sentenced. To this, day has never admitted any wrong doing. How can he get help if he has never and will never utter the words, “I need some help with this.” For he is broken in a sort of way that keeps him from caring about his victims and consuming as many as he can get his hands on. But I will completely agree with you. The system in place paints any person with a sex crime as if they were like my father. Something needs to be done to change things. I believe you and I are in agreement that it is all being done wrong and we need to change it and make it better. I am with you on what you write. I just had a rare and unusual experience with my father and I know it it not the norm.

        • kind of living

          @ BSL ,,,,, ,, if all that happened to you I am truly sorry that life bit you in the ass , but one of the problems is that anyone can say or tell everyone that anyone that will listen these nightmare storys , and that’s all we here is the negative about being a “victim” that’s all we ever hear about , but no one wants to talk about the (Big Pig) in the room , that’s right in everyones face , and that be because of this already slanted system we have to take plea deals , and while many may be guilty of many things , “they” by the same token are not guilty of said charges , how can anyone know that later on they will add punishment on top of punishment for years to come ,because of this system your father in all likely hood in no way can cop to anything that they don’t already know , no , the things that could help him the most are the things he may have done that not even you know about , he in no way can do an honest program , hell even the program its self is not honest , but making tougher laws are not the answer , but back to “victims” its become that if someone says they are victims , that’s it , they are victims , and stay victims , no one making them do so , but when RC’s and their familys become victims its no big deal , I am still waiting for the study that shows how many people become felons when there is a fight over the children in court or upon hunting an attorney to do so , your nightmare story is sad , and these things are still going to go on no matter what you do , its going to take a big change in our system and peoples thinking , so we can open doors for people to be able to get help with out punishment , and the whole fear of talking about ones problems , that’s a good start, but whats happening to RC’s and there familys is the story that needs to be told , we should at this point fight like hell against anything further to help LE , because they abuse every thing they are givin , they don’t care about victims , or us , all they care about is more power , the courts already have plenty of tools to punish , and I am sorry if you truly felt hurt because I sais alleged , but you see I was not there , no more that you where their in the court with me or the county jail I was in , or when I was in prison , but if you were doing time for any alleged sex crime you would be praying for a cell with me , and not with some violent prick that’s has nothing better to do than get strips for making your world hell . just so you can get out and have every new law strapped to your ass “for” “Ever”, many of us did pleas that had nothing to do with ML or any other trash , its in every part of our life , enough is enough , LE get enough play , I am just a person that really got reamed by the system , I have been raped , and raped of my life , and know many others have as well , so why beat the drum on tougher laws for RC’s , i mean come on they say life with out , just for ……. , what a lie . people better wise up , these laws are unconstitutional , and that constitution is not just for everyone you like , its for everyone you may not like , other wise how is there ever going to be any true balance

        • BSL

          I agree. 🙂

        • kind of living

          @BSL,,,,, ,, I am glad , because now we can brake out the,,,,,,,, SODA POPS AND CORN CHIPS! no really , I hope things work out for you and yours ,

        • AJ

          @BSL:
          First, and most importantly, I’m very sorry to hear of the horrible environment you and the others endured. Even without any direct abuse, you were certainly affected by the poison of the environment. Your father (IMO, you didn’t have a Dad, only a male parent) sounds to have been on the of extreme cases who do merit more severe consequences. I hope you and the others have received the appropriate and necessary help in dealing with the traumas, attachment injuries, and pain.
          Second, thank you very much for clarifying and explaining. I sincerely appreciate that. I spoke with hyperbole when I said “nobody” would speak up; in truth, I realize many will. I was running with the statistic that says 90+% of abuse happens with someone known to and trusted by the victim(s) (as was the case you related). Too often, that goes unreported for fear of the destruction it will cause “everyone.”

          Again, my deepest sympathy for what happened. Yes, your father does deserve stiff punishment, since there’s seemingly zero remorse or desire to change–or stop. Sadly, such types exist in humanity. 🙁 He will get his judgment the day the world is brightened with his expiration.

          God Bless, and Merry Christmas.

        • BSL

          Thanks AJ. Very thoughtful.

        • Trish

          Personally, I am very weary of truth in victim stories, this site is suppose to be recognized primarily to support ex offenders and bring balance to the abusive fuggggged up legal system! So if people are talking about abuse on this site, it makes me wonder if 5 o is online!!

        • Trish

          By the way! I know for a fact 5 o definitely is monitoring and engaging this and many sites! With that said…..do not be deceived 5 o are not always directly associated but often indirectly! Eh, believe what you will! What better ways to be in control of others freedoms than to constantly impead, impose and implement ones political, idealistic, and legal biases at a targeted group…..the more negative and in-depth emotional, personal and politically sensitive the stories and propaganda, hear say the deeeeeeper the BS goes! Have a great new year!

        • kind of living

          @ trish ,,,,, ,, you know that’s right !

    • Tim Moore

      So first rape is ok, second is not.

      • Sam

        The first time isn’t even okay. If the offense is brutal, like forced rape, against little kids, kidnapping, drugging someone and raping them then the initial punishment should fit the crime.

        But for those who peed in public, consensual sex between underage, people who got caught up because someone said they were older than what they were, they should get a second chance after they served their sentence. Not be on a registry for life.

        Everything should be taken into consideration on a case by case basis.

        Here if you’re convicted of rape you are caned and put in prison. Afterwards they let you go and try to live a normal life. Compared to the registry I would have gladly taken a caning or whipping any day. In the west it may be seen as cruel and unusual but it’s more humane than making people live in fear of the unknown for the rest of their lives.

        • Tim Moore

          You have a point, a temporary bit of extreme physical pain is more humane than a lifetime of mental anguish caused by registry laws.

    • It's a silent genocide

      There’s a lot of feigned outrage that drives the push for these measures. Americans are ADDICTED to outrage (actually, it has reached a fever pitch with “metoo”) and lawmakers know how to exploit this. Megan’s Law is built upon the foundation of quicksand, though, so It’s just a matter of time before they realize they’re at war with THEMSELVES.

    • Matt

      I actually agree with this law too. And rest assured, after the kill-shot our elected representatives just issued to us this year, the same thing is coming this way.

  2. AJ

    Here we have the reaction to the mounting losses in courts over the registry. I’m sure this will cause the rate of sexual crimes to plummet… In fact, the reported offenses will probably go *down*, as nobody wants Aunt Susie, or Dad, or Cousin Jim to go to prison for life–so they’ll keep mum. They *can* at least guarantee the recidivism for the covered offenses will go to zero.

    • AlexO

      I very much agree with you. Our program director told me that it wasn’t until the system in general started promising the victims (usually children) that the offender (usually parent) were going to get actual help and return home that the victims started actually helping the investigation into their abuse. Prior to that most would remain silent due to fear of forever losing their loved one.

      • AJ

        Human nature is that if we feel there will be some sort of retribution for speaking up (dad goes to jail, fired from a job), we humans simply will not speak up. It’s been proven occupationally in all sorts of high-risk and/or high-consequence fields. It’s called Safety Culture, and started in the medical field, and spread into the oil industry. These sorts of laws will create a disincentive to report abusers within the family, including the type of person BSL mentions.

        • Tim Moore

          There may also be a disincentive for the rapist to stop whatever he is doing with this life sentence. After the second rape what more could one loose by continuing? Life plus 1500 years? A rational scoundrel may say, heck, I’m going away for good now, may try to live it up and commit as many offenses as possible until caught. Of course the more victims he has, more likely he will be caught, but do these guys really think like that? More likely the higher the stakes the more adrenaline it produces. The more feeling of power and success with getting away with one more act, the more attractive it becomes.

        • David Kennerly, "In the long list of all of your problems, I'm the least of them"

          There has long been speculation that the extremes of punishment have very likely led to kids being killed simply because some perpetrators are willing to do so to eliminate witnesses. This is a serious question that has never been addressed or taken seriously.

        • Tim Lawver

          You are correct sir! The likelihood of the perp killing the victim just went UP!

        • kind of living

          @ Tim ,,,,, ,, what proof do you have ?

        • kind of living

          @David ,,,,, ,, and why would they my friend ? how bout a study on why the USA has by far the largest prison population in the world , and why it is that country’s like Germany have a better grasp on RC issues than the US ? just seems to me that our country is lacking in giving a dang about fixing problems rather than chucking a few bucks at programs to further punish , and buy votes from a sick paranoid people that have been brain washed into fear , the whole reason the constitution was created was the fear of GOV , now the state has turned everything around by painting a larger than life picture of a monster , and are taking advantage of their master piece to further rewrite the law of the land , the law that was placed there for everyone , even the ones in the painting , in prison who is it doing all the murdering ? SO’s ? NOPE , matter of fact most are not even in there for murder that are doing the killings . so how come everyone are not jumping on the band wagon and saying that most people are murders that have just not been caught for many killings ? that’s how they do SO’s , SO’s in many case’s it only takes word’s , with the state grooming the alleged victim , some are forced and groomed by CPS , alleged SO’s should be afforded the same protections as anyone else , these laws have been able to run amuck far too long , there is no balance left for the alleged SO’s , just tougher punishment and more avenue’s for the state , if we beat the state they always say we found a loophole , maybe someone can show me even one loophole hahaha ! seems to me its the other way around , we don’t have time to figure whos crime we don’t like the most and then point , heck no we need to fight for everyone’s rights , and gain some balance and do away with this whole monster picture , and get with the fairness , and how to fix the problem , you could put every level 3 in prison for life , and the problem will still be there , and no one will be any safer .

        • Alec

          David,

          I really appreciate your comments. In the UK there was a discussion on this exact point a few years back, as their own fervor on the subject increased; the people asked why the sentences were so “short” (5-35 years depending on type and severity of offense, life in very very very few cases). The government’s basic answer was: If we make these punishments more severe, we simply encourage the perpetrators to kill their victims so they can’t be reported (it is also very hard after about 3 days to tell a body has been sexually abused, absent obvious things like the presence of bodily fluids).

          Increasing penalties actually makes it *MORE* likely that crimes will be successfully committed, isn’t that backwards? So you keep your punitive measures sane, and it allows you to keep control of the populace. This is one of the reasons the UK sex offender register is not public.

          The UK is no better than the US in terms of standards of evidence in convictions (significantly worse, really) but at least they do have some sane points on their side.

          The US is just 100% batshit crazy.

        • David Kennerly, "In the long list of all of your problems, I'm the least of them"

          There is also this concept called “The Precautionary Principle” which has caught on, especially with busybodies and the legions of big-government fans, such as the EU, who think that there is no level of risk which is acceptable and believe that government must explicitly allow something having determined that it is without risk and, if not, then it is illegal. The Precautionary Principle has become the only acceptable way to raise kids, I’m afraid.

  3. The Unforgiven

    I don’t know the right answer here but is locking more people up the right way to go? It’s always for us, not for them. Out of site, out of mind. Meanwhile, they rot, become better criminals, become hardened..etc. I wish the US could more efforts into prevention and rehabilitation. I find it humorous how everyone wants sex offenders locked away forever…okay, fine but who’s paying for that? Shouldn’t these people be first in line to open their wallets when taxes have to go up?

  4. Tim Lawver

    With a law like this the, “grave threat” to vulnerable persons will INCREASE.

    Ironically, the measure was put forward by the gentleman from SALEM!

    GOD has sense of humor.

  5. Dustin

    For what it’s worth, I don’t have a problem with the law as summarized in the article. It even makes sense in some respect – true sex offense recidivism would drop, it probably wouldn’t add much cost to the prison budget, and the purported “need” for the registry would diminish even further. (Note: don’t take that to mean I think the registry is “needed”. I fervently believe the public needs a sex offender registry like a fish needs a chair)

    Nonetheless, I don’t think it should have passed. The biggest problem as I see it is that the three crimes it applies to now – 1st degree rape, sodomy (likely included for homosexuals, but will be applied across the board), and unlawful sexual penetration – at some point will be expanded to include all sex crimes and non-sex crimes mandating sex offender registration.

    • Alec

      You make some good points. I’ve thought long and hard about this and if you learn anything from history, anytime a group is marginalized the only way they escape it is by choosing a particular bad segment of their own population and sacrificing them for the sake of the rest; e.g. “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” so, since some of the group even hate their own, the rest of the group is ok for me to treat humanely.

      I’m not going to bring up any specific examples, though I have them, because it’ll bring things WAY off topic. Suffice it to say, my point is that if “the public” can be given the following argument:

      “You need to treat us humanely because look, see those guys over there? They are REALLY bad and we are not like them. Even we hate them.”

      then the public will be easier to shift away from this bullet train to hell that we all now find ourselves on. They’ll see part of the group as ally, part as enemy, and the “us vs them” dichotomy that Americans love so much kicks in. Hacking culture itself!

      It’s terrible. It’s not moral, to throw some under the bus for the sake of the rest. The only justification I can give is, that number becomes hundreds, if even thousands, instead of the current million at which it sits. I wouldn’t expect or ask anyone to volunteer to be in that group; and it wouldn’t matter anyway. I would prefer a more human (and humane) solution. But then… the only real way out of all this is for the world to burn.

  6. David Kennerly, "In the long list of all of your problems, I'm the least of them"

    The U.K. just has slightly different ways of being completely batshit insane. Their laws are better in some ways and worse in others. For one thing, you don’t really have the option of not speaking to police there. If you don’t answer their questions, it can be used against you. If you watch police procedurals from there you will see that their suspects are not necessarily being stupid by agreeing to be interviewed by the police (as they would have to be if they were in the States) but that they have little legal choice. Their criminal sentences are shorter than our’s but they are the longest in Europe. They don’t have quite the bright-line distinction between community supervision vs. non-supervision as the U.S. has and they value autonomy from such supervision less. An English friend of mine now must allow the police to enter his house several times a year to do a search and be interviewed for the rest of his life even though he is not on probation or parole. On the other hand, he finds them to be easygoing enough and he makes them a pot of tea while they chat. They have the Sexual Offences Prevention Order (SOPO) to which they can be subjected with what would appear to us to be a lack of due process, etc. It’s easy for them to impose no-travel bans in a way that is more difficult here.

    However, I think that they seem to accord more importance to mens rea than does the U.S. I’m thinking particularly of cases where a girl lied about her age and the adult male was prosecuted. It seems that ignorance is a defense in the U.K. for this sort of case whereas, in the U.S., no one gives a damn. I just ran into this today from “FACT U.K.” a group somewhat similar to ours: https://factuk.org/2017/12/20/isaac-itiary-another-victim-of-non-disclosure-of-vital-evidence/

  7. AERO1

    I do agree with this law multiple sex offenses sounds like you already had your chance to be a productive member of society and you blew it.. so yes you should be locked up for life BUT !! the problem with that is what if someone lies on you…. the state of California thought about passing a similar law but quickly back out because they felt that once A offender cames to the realization of what he/she has done and what he/she is facing the offender might kill the victim out of desperation knowing he/she is facing life in prison

    • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

      Wow! This was a lively exchange we had back in December, 2017, wasn’t it? An oldie but a goodie.

      You’re completely wrong, of course.

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