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General News

General Comments August 2018

Comments that are not specific to a certain post should go here, for the month of August 2018. Contributions should relate to the cause and goals of this organization and please, keep it courteous and civil.

Join the discussion

  1. ML

    I am no longer registered in any state. Is there anything that can be done about Homefacts, Mylife, Instant Checkmate and other similar sites that continue to list me falsely? Any court cases of any relief?

  2. AnothefAnon

    My sister discovered is tripling the convictions it lists per offender. That is libel. There is also a failure to list the conviction date.

    • AnotherAnon

      Did anyone else confirm that the offenses were tripled? I’m surprised more aren’t pissed.

  3. AnotherAnon

    Janice has already said she fought these publication and was shot down. So I’m just fishing.

    Is it possible that inaccurate disclosure of public records is a violation of The Privacy Act of 1974?

    Maybe it is wrong for the DOJ to allow the inaccurate dissemination of its database. Maybe that is why it now requires a Captcha, probably to block spiders and bots, but too late.

    • Brian

      What about due process, how does that play in this passport schem they have going, did a judge ever says to you during sentencing that your passports would be affected by thses SO laws? I don’t think so. This is a violation of the constitution in my opinion.

      • AnotherAnon

        Excellent question.

        Jeffrey Kahn*

        This Article makes the case for the fundamental right of U.S. citizens to leave
        their country and return home again. Surprisingly, Americans do not enjoy such
        a fundamental right. Under current U.S. Supreme Court precedents, the right to
        travel abroad is merely an aspect of liberty that may be restricted within the bounds
        of due process.

        Due process?

        • TS


          Excellent find here too. Certainly a great add to the discussion here on International Travel and due process.

        • David Kennerly is Frightening and High

          It is an excellent piece but one which I linked to here several years ago that I had hoped might find its way into the IML challenge.

      • AnotherAnon

        Full text of “The constitutional right to international travel tGun Violence Prevention Act of 1994 : public health and child safety : hearing before the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, One Hundred Third Congress, second session … October 5, 1994”

        • TS


          Excellent find here that goes above and beyond the Fordham doc I recently linked here for all to read if they desire. A long read for sure, this is, but certainly a great add to the discussion here on International Travel and due process. Many things could be pulled out and quoted in a case challenging travel (which I would include IML travel notifications, especially to those countries that turn back individuals once they have been notified), but I found this a nice paragraph to pull out:

          “The constitution Protects the Right to Travel. Most Americans do not realize that it is a crime for them to travel to Cuba and would be shocked to find out that is the case. They instinctively understand that the right to travel freely is part of the basic liberty which our democratic government was established to protect. Indeed, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Art. 13, recognizes the right to travel both inside one’s country and internationally. The Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized that the right to travel is protected under the Fifth Amendment as a liberty interest that cannot be deprived without due process of law. 1 Indeed, even the Executive Branch concedes that “the right to travel— both domestically and internationally—is constitutionally protected,” although it violates this principle in action. Report of the United States of America Under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, (ICCPR Report) July 28, 1994, Art. 12, p. 99.”

  4. Worried in Wisconsin

    I just sent in my passport for renewal early. My goal was to get the new passport with the IML marking now, so that when I get the visa I’m working on it will be attached to my new passport. I was worried that if the visa was attached to my old passport and it was revoked for not having the IML marking, I’d lose my visa and have lots of red tape to go through.

    So, I got the new passport today. Lo and behold, there is no IML marking. Since I’ve been sent to secondary screening each time I return to the US at passport control, I fully expected that I’d be given a new passport with the IML marking.

    What gives?

    Perhaps it’s because my state is not SORNA compliant? Perhaps for some reason I’m not on the Angle Watch list? Perhaps they just missed it? Perhaps I was supposed to fill out some special form?

    Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome. I’d love to just assume I’m lucky, but this is the kind of luck that’s likely to kick me in the ass later on.

  5. Worried in Wisconsin

    I just sent in my passport for renewal early. My goal was to get the new passport with the IML marking now, so that when I get the visa I’m working on it will be attached to my new passport. I was worried that if the visa was attached to my old passport and it was revoked for not having the IML marking, I’d lose my visa and have lots of red tape to go through to get a new visa.

    So, I got the new passport today. Lo and behold, there is no IML marking. Since I’ve been sent to secondary screening each time I return to the US at passport control, I fully expected that I’d be given a new passport with the IML marking since I’m on the registry with a minor victim.

    What gives?

    Perhaps it’s because my state is not SORNA compliant? Perhaps for some reason I’m not on the Angle Watch list? Perhaps they just missed it? Perhaps I was supposed to fill out some special form?

    Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome. I’d love to just assume I’m lucky, but this is the kind of luck that’s likely to kick me in the ass later on.

    • Jm from wi

      @worried in wi.
      A friend similarly sent in early to eliminate the anxiety of waiting for revocation before a trip. When he applied he sent his status, crime,etc. with the application. My thought is revocation is triggered by travel and maybe 21 day notice. RTAG was helpful to me and may have current info. My experience and feelings are the whole system doesn’t have a clue.

      • steve

        Wait…so you apply and PAY and get a new Passport with no marking. Then when you travel they revoke and you pay AGAIN?

        • JM of Wi.

          “Wait…so you apply and PAY and get a new Passport with no marking. Then when you travel they revoke and you pay AGAIN?”
          Yes my friend & I each had 2016 passports- He sent his back & requested a marked one before we traveled, I traveled and was revoked – (post travel).

        • JM of Wi.


    • CR

      Pretty much what I figured would happen when you asked about this a while back. It’s been clear from the experiences related by others on this forum that one hand of the State department knows not what the other is doing. They really don’t seem to have their act together. The experience of others who have reported here also suggest that it is international travel that triggers the revocation.

      When dealing with the government, it’s best to assume that the least favorable (to you) outcome is the most likely to come to pass. Since you weren’t under any obligation to proactively apply for a new passport yet, you shouldn’t have.

      I expect you’ll get your revocation letter within a week or so of returning from your next international trip. Then you’ll need to incur yet more expense (time and money) to get your new, marked passport.

  6. Hysteria

    Things that make you go “hmmmm”,

    How is it that men and women on nude beaches, nudist camps, and clothing optional environments can expose their genitalia in front of minors and not be charged.

    • wonderin

      Nudist engage in their activity for other reasons than sexual gratification.

    • TS

      Clothing option areas are legal because they have been permitted to be clothing optional areas. Those who enjoy them must stay within their confines if they do go clothing optional or risk the standard legal ramifications if they go outside of it sans clothing.

      • David Kennerly is Frightening and High

        Well, naturist locations have not, traditionally, had anything to do with any specific law on nudity and everything to do with the rights afforded private property. There is really no quid pro quo back-and-forth between the state and recognized nudist locations except perhaps informally, in the case of public resources (namely, beaches), where there was probably a simple understanding of where nudity might or might not occur. That would come into play in places like Baker’s Beach in San Francisco and maybe Black’s Beach in the San Diego area. The point I’m making is that laws governing private nudity really don’t exist apart from any much more recent hysterical laws which might exist as it relates to children. The thing that we really need to understand is the sea change in laws governing child nudity, or their exposure to nudity, which we are witnessing. For example, simple nudity of children is now considered to be “child abuse material.” No doubt, naturist culture has been strongly affected by both laws and public hysteria. What was once fully within the domain of parental rights, kids’ rights and private behavior is being actively threatened and encroached upon by an ever-more intrusive state. Given that, it’s easy to see how the naturist movement is a shadow of its former self. Even San Francisco, which once had (famously) no laws on public nudity, now bans it. While I may not have really enjoyed the very rare nude individual I might encounter in the park or walking down the street, I hate much more a government that decides for me that I must not see it. The rationale for that law, as always, is the possibility that children might encounter the sight of the unclothed body.

        • Tim Moore

          Well that was the exact excuse that closed down the city owned part of Blacks Beach is San Diego. Some people started complaining that the swimsuit optional beach was too close to an elementary school. The council soon voted to revoke the swimsuit optional ordinance. The nudists moved over to the State part of the beach. I think it survives, because it is a tourist attraction, and is kind of a tradition.

  7. Hysteria

    Looking for some level headed advice.

    A fellow tenant in the apt. Complex is telling all they talks to that I am a ” chomo” . I tried to confront them about it, but that isn’t happening. They are on parole for drug violations and are living there compliments of the city. Do to the culture of the people that frequent their apt. , I am concerned about car vandalism, or an outright confrontation. I am very capable of handling any physical attack, but am worried about once flood gates open, if all this pent up depressive anxietal emotion will cause me to just not stop. I have no where to go to get away from this situation. Looking to see if others have experienced this. I know this is to be expected, but I am coming to the end of my tolerance.


    • Timmr

      Yeah, isn’t seeing a naked adult supposed to damage a child for life. Sheesh.

    • Worried in Wisconsin

      My advice is to take care of your own health in this situation the best you can, both physically and emotionally. You can’t control them so don’t even try. Best bet is to focus on what you have control over, which is yourself. Find someone to talk to, whether it be a compassionate clergy member or a counselor and work on your depression and anxiety. Not easy – but it can be done. We’ve all had situations like this and in my experience, just when it seems things can’t get any worse a bright light will appear from somewhere. Grab onto it.

      • Hysteria

        My emotional eneegy is so low that I find it difficult to even cry.
        I wake up dreading to leave apartment. And when I do, I get anxious to get back so I can close off the world.
        Tried meds, but nothing has helped. I guess I have to just accept that I will be living a nightmare from here ob.

        • Matt

          Hysteria, I read your post. You said, “I have no where to go to get away from this situation.” I’m not sure exactly what that means, but if you’re like most of us, it’s usually a family obligation, a financial limitation, or job related. I sympathize. That said, my suggestion for anybody in this position is to try very hard to create space between yourself and those who you’re having problems with. For me, that meant moving out of town and into the country. I am not talking about an off-grid shack in the middle of a forest. But being in a home, or an RV, in the unincorporated area of your county, rather than in the city limits, can be a form of relief. It is not easy. It takes planning, strategy, and at least a little money. But it can be done. I think most of the problems in any population can be alleviated by creating space between people. When you stack people on top of each other, bad things happen. For people in our position, it’s compounded exponentially. My advice, for what it’s worth: Set a goal to move out of your apartment by a realistic date. Then do whatever it takes to achieve that goal. I believe you when you say that you can physically take care of yourself. But in the same thread, you said that you’re emotionally drained. There is a tipping point. You may be physically able to defend yourself, but the day will come when you can’t, for one reason or another. I personally have a lot of experience (and advanced training) with hand-to-hand combat. Here’s the problem: If you can handle yourself against one or two people, they will figure that out and bring three or four. Or more likely, you’ll be so tired, run down, and worn out that your actual application of self defense abilities will be limited. Remember too that if you’re description of these people means that they’re drug-addicted, they’ll be unpredictable. And they’ll do things like you suggested that you can’t defend for… damaging your property. I encourage you to find a way to get away from them. Search the internet, for example, for cheap ways for poor people to buy rural properties. It can be done. The added benefit of doing this is that in addition to the peace of mind you’ll get by being relieved of physical threats, you’ll be far more emotionally healthy if you listen to crickets and coyotes instead of crackheads and car alarms. Good luck!

        • Tim Moore

          Matt, that is my solution also to soul crushing depression, caused by the brutality of human kind — get away from your abusers and out into Nature. She doesn’t classify you as a sex offender. You’re equal to everyone else when you are in Gaia’s house.

    • AnotherAnon

      @Hysteria Might I suggest ? There are a few reasons for bringing it up. 1) He focuses on legal self defense and often points out situations when self defense was an over reaction. When a person ends up in jail or prison for self defense, they actually lost the fight. 2) He has videos on awareness and your environment. 3) He has videos on practical application, including knives if you can legally possess them (according some some lawyer sites, California as generous knife laws if not on probation or parole, but are still restricted in some places). 4) It will give you something else to concentrate on, which can be empowering.

  8. AnotherAnon

    Working days calculator:

    From today, Aug 13, five working days is Aug 20.

  9. Hysteria

    Thx for response Matt. Yes, finances are a huge part of my issues right now. Work situation has been stressful along with bills mounting. Never had these issues before and now that’s all I have. Having your livelihood taken from you along with your life is overwelming. I keep looking for opportunities, but nothing seems to pan out. I told someone yesterday ( I met from this site) that I truly feel like an unwanted person.

    • C

      My heart goes out to you, my friend. How are you getting by? What line of work are/were you in?

  10. Bill Arthur

    Janice, have you (and ACSOL) essentially given up on a legal fight against IML? If so, why not get in contact with lawyers in other jurisdictions (Colorado, Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc.) who have had success lately, in courts that are apparently more reasonable than in California? You could pass along the details of your two experiences in this matter and encourage them to try — perhaps a different approach. Every day, more people are reporting their passports cancelled and the problems this is causing them. Is there nothing than can be done in the courts? If it’s a question of money, my guess is that a special fund for this purpose would be well received, considering that the IML is a financial burden to many of us (hindering business travel, etc.).

    • Harry

      To me, it is obvious that IML is un-constitutional and it is not American. It baffles me why there are problems of getting past these lower courts. Is the US judicial system corrupt? I read everyday, where those whom are illegal in this country are scoring victories, in the name of rights, however, we can not get our day in court. I also, feel the since of abandonment.

    • Bob Peterson

      I agree wth 100%Lets fight against mark in the passport,sending letters that we coming for the child sex tourism .That find ways what to do,let’s call competitive lawyers,write petition go to DC …

    • E

      I believe NARSOL recently mentioned on their call that Allison Ruttenberg, the amazing atty in the CO Judge Matsch case, is closing her practice due to personal (health?) issues. So sad. We seem to be losing a true champion in Ms Ruttenberg.

      • David

        That news is very sad and disheartening. In any case, I wish her the best and send her great appreciation for all she has done for our community.

  11. USA

    Here is the 1 Million Dollar Question? What if you don’t have a SARATSO score? Who does this? By 2021, I’ll have a 25 year old expunged misdemeanor?

    • TG

      I have the same question. I am also wondering if there is a way to find out whether you have one, and if so what the score is.

      • steve @TG

        If you have a score it is posted online with your price club membership.

    • AnotherAnon

      Janice as pointed out the SARATSO only applies to those released over the last 10 years or so.

      Now hand over the $.

    • steve

      Right now those of us who have so SARASTSO will have to wait until 2023 (which is BS) to get scored or until they figure out what to do with us. I am hoping Janice can lobby the legislature to add an amendment so they we can go get a private score before 2021.

      • Relief

        @Steve – Do you have a source for your 2023 date for non-scores?
        You may be right as I have mentioned several times that the DOJ has an extra 2 years of “Limbo” to categorize registrants at their ‘discretion’. Just haven’t seen any references to Non Static scores or not being able to provide you own at petition (?)

        • AnotherAnon

          My bet is that there isn’t a 2023 source because the reliability of the SARATSO fades to nothing after enough time. Looks like we’ll have to wait for the regulations.

        • steve

          I just remember reading something that gives them two years FROM 2021 to classify. Like I said, I hope there is something janice and team can do to speed that process up. Most of us who don’t have a SARASOT have been on the list 15, 20 30 years.

        • SARATSO Scam

          I don’t understand why the SARATSO/Static-99R is given weight when the Coding Rules clearly state its validity for only two years. Refer to page 13: “Static risk assessments estimate the likelihood of recidivism at the time of release and we expect they would be valid for approximately two years.”

          Also, the SARATSO also consist of the LS/CMI. The LS/CMI, unlike the Static-99R (which is static), is a dynamic assessment tool. But strangely, the LS/CMI is completely ignored by CASOMB and the DOJ when it comes to “tiering.” Of course, the LS/CMI does *not* exaggerate like the Static-99R — which may be at least one reason why virtually no weight is given to the LS/CMI. It is entirely possible to have a “high” Static/SARATSO score, while also having a “very low” or “low” LS/CMI.

          A lot of things don’t make sense regarding the use of any “risk assessment.”

      • Relief

        @Steve – Yes, SB 384 allows up to 2023 for the DOJ to classify your Tier and there has been some discussion about those without scores. Approximately 22,000 have a STATIC-99R, ~25%. It becomes important for those who may be listed under Tier 3 for a high score of 6+.

        It’s unknown how difficult the petitioning process will be, but this is an important component of the new Tier law which we will need to find out more about.

        A Tier projection paper for the ACSOL board shows a rough estimate of ~28,000 registrants may be eligible to “immediately” apply for relief in 2021-2023. Petitioners may likely need to provide a current forensic psych report to the court. If this is the case, a STATIC-99R, which looks at 10 objective variables could perhaps also be calculated by the psych evaluator as “at time of conviction” and submitted along with the petition. (yes, I understand that an old STATIC score is mostly invalid, but the law says…)
        Since you would have / need an attorney on the petitioning, it can be reasoned that if the only issue standing in the way of relief is an “old STATIC-99R”, then an after fact submission by an acceptable 3rd party via your lawyer should suffice.
        Hopefully we will know for certain before 2021.

  12. mike r

    Hey I noticed that Ira Ellman is now on the board at ACSOL. Janice and team, can I subpoena Ms. Ellman to use as an expert witness in my case when my case moves forward to trial?

    • TS

      @mike r

      Why wouldn’t you be able to subpoena Ms. Ellman?

      • mike r

        I do not know exactly how that subpoena process works. I cannot seem to find definitive answers on to whether I can just pick an expert and subpoena them. I would really rather just have them testify voluntarily as compared to the subpoena option. I think Mr. Ellmen’s testimony could be very beneficial. Hopefully when my case moves forward, especially if the judge denies the AG’s partial motion to dismiss, that someone will step up and volunteer some assistance. If the court denies that MTD I think I might even ask the court to appoint counsel but as assistance only for things like preparing the pretrial statement and for issues like this about getting expert testimony. I know I am going to exploit the AG’s own sources such as her legislative fact finder as well as Hanson’s declaration etc. but like I said it would be nice to get some backing from someone in the professional world. IDK if it is because of my charges or what but whatever. You know they called me a predator trolling online for little girls which is a bunch of crap but maybe these orgs just see it like the state actors and DA’s seen it or described it. IDK, all I know is that I am not a risk to re-offend and I will never even consider it. It has been nearly fifteen years now and I am married, have a grandson and granddaughter on the way, in college, and I can go on and on but I still wonder if it was someone else with different charges if they would be willing to stand with me or if they are just waiting to see how far I can go myself or what but it sure would be nice to get that backing. I guess it really does not matter since I am going it alone and hell it may be the best as it seems only Pro Se are doing anything anyways….

        • steve

          Isi it possible Janice is waiting to see how far you get then will join? Thanks Mike for your hard work in this.

        • TS

          @mike r

          I, and others here, understand you want their word on the record, so the state cannot wiggle away from it. I truly hope that can happen for you and yours in your effort.

          Do you want to subpoena for discovery, i.e. deposition for data, for the case, or both? From your effort to date you’ve shared, you want them to corroborate their study findings, etc, on the stand for your behalf. The expert could be willing to help you given the nature of your case, the topic nationwide, etc, and a subpoena may be unnecessary, but more below on that.

          Since you are Pro Se, the court clerk will help with the subpoena process including paying all related subpoena fees, i.e. witness fees, travel fees, etc. A subpoena could catch them by surprise (and appear hostile?), but they may be used to subpoenas in their line of work.

          The best course of action, as I see it, would be to introduce yourself and your case to the expert by providing them an introduction document of your case to date before going w/a subpoena. This should give them an understanding of the charges, the actions taken by the state, the actions taken by yourself, and what you’re trying to accomplish so they could provide the best angle to help from, if they decide they want to be of assistance in your case. That would be the line, I think, from which a subpoena may or may not be necessary.

          A reference point for you, here is my experience: The top of the line experts I have consulted have a large hourly rate, e.g. $400-$550/hr, in addition to other fees, i.e. travel, etc, to which they expect to be paid for via retainer beforehand for their expert opinion whether it is in a case specific report, on the stand, or both after reading case specifics. An expert is possibly not going to donate their time to your case, unless it is so egregious and they can use it in the future. That is not definitive but a possibly because they could donate depending on the case.

          Just a few thoughts to consider, which you may already have done, as you are walking this path while sharing with us (which we appreciate).

    • David

      @ mike r: Why would you subpoena someone when you could simply ask him/her if he/she would be willing to testify as an expert witness?? 🤔

  13. R M

    Mark Stewart Greenstein, Connecticut running for Governor
    If you can vote in Connecticut, this guys not for you.

  14. Old RSO

    I found this site and want to comment.
    I am an RSO, over 50 yrs old, and as most of you have experienced, have had my life ripped from my hands.
    I lost my occupation, savings, and dreams. I am here because of an internet offense ( 1 ct. C.P.) in N.Ca.
    I rec’d probation and am off now, but realize that is nothing compared to the dim future I face. I have nothing left of my past life, and maybe that’s a good thing.
    My savings went away and now I face a very bleak existence. Anybody that is in or came from same boat, luv to talk and get advice. Overwhelming is an understatement.

    • Lake County

      You will find a large number of us are in the same situation as you with the same charges. I would suggest getting a separate email account that you can post here and you will likely get a response. Or you can just ask any questions you have here. We have a knowledgeable group here, but not every question will have an answer as many issues have not been litigated yet. Even experienced attorneys will not agree on all the answers regarding us registered citizens. The best thing you can do is just deal with life on a day to day basis, worrying about tomorrow and the future will only make you depressed.

      • Old RSO

        Thx for response.
        I have an dedicated email set up for this site. I have done a ton of reading and some of the stories are so depressing that I could not finish the article.
        Seems like with all the research data, nothing matters to those who run (ruin!) our lives. To think I voted for some of these people.
        One thing I have read is that moving to Europe seems to be the best opportunity to live some semblance of a life.

  15. Florida Sucks

    admins may want to make this perm link

    remove yourself from search websites

    you might want to post this or make it a sticky

    remove yourself from search websites

  16. David Kennerly is Frightening and High

    As many of you may know, Galen Baughman, once a rising star in our reform movement, is now being considered by Virginia for commitment as a “sexually violent predator.” NARSOL has issued a statement on this affair here: “NARSOL condemns civil commitment practices” ///

    Here is my own comment to this development: I would like NARSOL to weigh-in on the subject of the legal use of the term “SEXUAL VIOLENCE.” The term “sexually violent predator” is being thrown around very casually in society and by the media today but in an especially pernicious way by our own government. Let’s please shed some light on how that term is used, and misused, especially for the purpose of throwing people like Galen Baughman into indefinite, usually lifetime, imprisonment in these sham “hospitals.”

    Many people on the Registry themselves are unaware of the sleight-of-hand being performed by the state (i.e. both federal and state governments) as a means to denigrate individuals who have no capacity for violence and have never demonstrated anything like a violent impulse nor used coercion or force in the commission of their crimes. That cynical legerdemain by the professional victimologists is simply this: governments have now redefined the word “violent” in age-of-consent cases to mean that the younger party is below a particular arbitrary age which varies among the states but which is often set at fourteen (as here in California). Anyone whose victim is below that arbitrary age is to be seen for all legal purposes and by the public as “sexually violent.”

    Paul [Shannon] will remember me as the organizer for the first protest at Coalinga State Hospital in Coalinga, California many years ago and to which RSOL lent its support. Since then, nothing good has changed at that facility apart from a somewhat larger number of “hosprisoners” being released over time. The central conceit that keeps many of those hosprisoners locked-up in Coalinga (those who did not exercise the use of violence in their crimes, which is the VAST majority of its inhabitants) is that they are “violent sexual predators.”

    We need to tackle that issue [and define “sexual violence” as it is used in law] if we are to make any headway against civil commitment incarceration.

    I feel for Galen and know him to be passive and non-violent. We did not always agree on some issues during his brief respite from incarceration but his loss from our community was felt by all, including me.

    Thanks too to Judith Levine for her words here and her continued support as a champion of our cause. Also my thanks to her friend Debbie Nathan who has done much to expand awareness of the power and extents of the greatest witchhunt in recorded history.

    • Hysteria

      After reading the article, I have two things to say.
      1. WTF was he thinkin’! How could an educated, informed man make such a dumb decision. It’s like putting your hand in a disposal after you see what it does to garbage!
      2. How does this warrant a SVP label. There is NO violence! There is no SEX! There is only a text conversation and a system looking to protect every person from every possible danger on earth.

    • David Kennerly Wants To Know: Is It Me Or Is This Creepy & Wrong?

      In the “Is It Me Or Is This Creepy & Wrong?” Department: I have spoken a number of times about, to my mind, the cynical and dishonest moves by government and the social entrepreneurs to distort the English language and to foist the term “sexual violence” upon an unsuspecting public to mischaracterize decidedly NON-violent individuals as “sexually violent” (and “predatory”) by redefining “violence” to mean having sexual contact with a minor (and such contact itself having been expansively defined over the years) who is below some arbitrary age (fourteen in California) and even in the complete absence of actual violence or coercion? Am I wrong to feel outrage at this redefinition of a term which was once commonly understood but which now requires intimate knowledge of statutory codes to comprehend and appreciate its revised meaning? Am I wrong for identifying this redefinition as a fundamentally dishonest ploy to further marginalize the “sex offender?” Am I wrong in my contention that we need to acknowledge, at least within our own community if not in our public message, that the term no longer reliably means what nearly anyone would expect it to mean? I really want to know and would be grateful to hear your views.

      • Will Allen

        David Kennerly:

        It is not just you, it is wrong and inaccurate to refer to anything as “$EXUALLY violent” when no violence occurred. It cheapens actual acts of violence, involving $EX or not. It is dishonest and manipulative. I do feel as if the terrorist Nanny Big Governments (NBG) that have Registries and civil commitment facilities do it on purpose to try to make their propaganda and lies as effective as it can be. They would call every Registered Person a “baby raper” if they thought they could get away with it.

        And let’s make no mistake about it, most people who support the Registries and especially civil commitment are not good, decent people. They are little different than the “good” Nazis were. They are war criminals who are attacking and harassing other people for some gain for themselves, even if that gain is something as trivial and meaningless as their jollies. But in the case of civil commitment, it is most likely for $$$$$ and hate.

        F those people. War must be waged on them. People who are attacked by “civil commitment” need to massively retaliate. I do believe some civil commitment is warranted. But if it not, the retaliation needs to be massive.

        NBG propaganda and lies are why good people cannot fully support things like #metoo. That can’t be fully supported because we know that NBG is rarely the solution to anything. People should rarely voluntarily involve NBG in anything. They are clearly not on the moral high road and they simply cannot be trusted. So no one should blindly support #metoo. It is important to help actual victims. But it is critical that people do not simply believe anyone who says that he/she was a victim. There must always be proof and facts.

        That “if you see something, say something”? Forget that.

        • Counting the days

          I read what happened with your Trip to Thailand( my home is/ was there). I guess I can finally give up now. I kept wishing, and praying that this was a bad dream and that I would somehow pull through this and get back, but now I just hope I have the strength to end it. I am truly sorry for the pain I have caused.

      • CR

        I share your outrage. I have been outraged about it since the I first encountered this particular example of the government’s manipulative linguistic deception back in the mid-90s. It does society no good to pollute and dilute the meaning of a word so that its former clear meaning becomes ambiguous.

        There is no doubt that the intent, as well as the effect, is to amplify the opprobrium associated with our past criminal acts to the maximum extent possible. That makes it easier for legislators to pass new laws targeting us that purportedly safeguard the public, and it encourages the public to fear us, shun us, and revile even the least violent, least threatening, and least dangerous among us.

      • AnoterAnon

        What percentage of the public knows it is possible to be convicted of a 288 offense without touching the minor under 14? How many know that is classified as sexual violence? This video makes it plain and simple:

        However, public understanding is usually arrived at by filling in the blanks with visions of horrid news stories, mostly murders of little children.

        So it is much more complicated. While the video above makes it clear, full understanding would take a lot of work and time. For example, there is debate by the experts on what violence is and how to interpret it.

        Sexual Sadism: Avoiding Its Misuse in Sexually Violent Predator Evaluations

        Compare and contrast the video above with the paper on sadism. It is unlikely the public will experience either to come to any understanding in reality. Why should they even try? After all, they have their news stories. If the public knew non-touch can be violence, that is one thing, but to not even know it is quite another. I didn’t know until Googling it today.

        • Tim Moore

          The word violence is used like the word trafficking. It is a label people paste on others when they want to say the wearer is beyond redemption. People believe it without proof or much thought given to what it means.

      • Agree w/ David Kennerly

        Absolutely agree that government distorts the English language when it comes to labeling “sexually violent predators.” We see distortion growing in form when it comes to labeling “high” risk sex offenders as well. By what measurement? 10 Static-99R scam “risk factors,” based off of lumping all offenses and people together, that have nothing to do with one’s current place in life?

        It will be interesting to see how politicians will distort the English language in the future, ala “Patriot Act” (which has the perverse effect of stomp on everyone’s civil liberties), as well as the U.S. Marshall’s “SMART Office” (still don’t understand what’s smart about said office).

      • David Kennerly

        So apparently it’s not just me 🙂 Thanks to those who weighed in on this oft-overlooked but completely Orwellian abuse of the English language. Language is important, after all, and central to our ability to think clearly and rationally about what is real and to distinguish it from superstition, the frenzy of the mob and atavistic tribal hatred. We must not let this (genuine) abuse of language to pass without challenge as that would be ceding the authority to those who cannot be trusted to determine what the rest must think.

  17. mike r

    Thanks for the feed back people. Yeah you all have good advice and I think I will get a hold of Ellmen if necessary, I may not even need an expert with all the reports and conclusions from the CASOMB and the rest of the gov entities. Those are probably going to be my best witnesses without even being there. I think the courts are fed up with this crap and as soon as a good case such as mine gets in front of them they are going to take some kind of action. That one article states it pretty well when they state that the fact that the court considered the registry cruel and unusual punishment is unprecedented in anything besides a death penalty or life sentence for juveniles. That is like one of the hardest bars to hurdle in case law and I think it is the right decision as well.

  18. NotFree

    So right before the first day of school the district sends out an email about a new visitor check in process. They’re going to be using the Raptor Visitor Management system.

    The email says it checks for registered people. It emphasizes that the sex offense registries are the only databases it checks.

    I guess murderers, wife beaters and drug addicts are ok.

    I hate this. I want off this train.

    • E

      Same here, last year. Craziness. My kids do NOT understand.

    • steve

      Hopefully they only use it during school hours going thru the main bldg. It’s hard to imagine them using them at sporting events and school plays etc…My last just graduated high school thank god.

      • Hysteria

        I feel you out there with family are so fortunate. Having no one to talk to, confide in, and just be there for you is one of the toughest aspects of this. I could win the lottery tomorrow and would give it away to just have a family to be with. Knowing that a person out there will not judge you and appreciates you as a human being is huge.

        • Tim Moore

          I have a biological family and I am grateful, but outside that there is not much. One needs a community. Notheless, I have been coming to this sight for years and have gotten to know nd love individuals here by their words, and they are all precious even when there is disagreement . It’s like a big family tied together over cyber space and one connecting factor — the registry. Just like in all families people comfort one another, have fights, share stories and help each other out. I wish we could all go out one day on a boat or go fishing or see a play, whatever. We need to get away from this shit hole of laws, in spirit anyway, be with people who don’t pre-judge you once they know you’re a registrant, and it would be great if we could do it like a family.

        • Trish


          Forget Government, God…Family at the moment…..I will be your family ! Anytime you need to talk I will help as much as possible ! We are born alone and die alone ! Be friendly to have friends ! Life is about all the little things conversations etc. You sound like a fun intelligent sand interesting guy !

  19. Civil rights first

    So I was recently reading the statutes for Washington State that pertain to the registration laws and many of the case laws challenging the registration as violation of ex post facto. With many of the rulings dismissing those challenges stating that the registration laws don’t meet the same requirement of being ex post facto violations because the requirement to register is civil in nature. Then my question in why is the RCW that pertains to registration in Washington state (RCW 9A.44.130) listed as a criminal code? If it is listed as a criminal code how can they say it’s civil?

    • TS

      @civil rights first

      It sounds like you have grounds for a suit alleging it really is a criminal code and not a civil code matter and forces the courts to decide whether it is or not and make the folks in Olympia act on it. You certainly would grab their attention obviously but the attention possibly of other legislatures also in the nation who have it listed the same.

  20. AnotherAnon

    California’s is listed under the Penal Code too. They get around that by claiming in the law that the purpose is for public safety and rehabilitation, etc.

    • Civil rights first

      Yeah .. not that it matters.. the courts will interoperate everything against us. If we could make a judge live under the rso tag an for to rules for 1 year I bet they would change their tune.

    • Tim Moore

      I remember the SCOTUS had an answer to that in Smith vs. Doe.

  21. AnotherAnon

    When Googling stuff, this article pops up again and again. This is false. 288 was a felony at this time already, and it carried up to a life sentence under California’s old indeterminate sentencing law. Terrible case, yes, but the article is still wrong. I tried to get the Times to fix it once, ignored. Maybe the author was confusing the misdemeanor 647a (annoy or molest, which is void for being redundant, but no one has challenged it).

    This was the start of the registry in the United States.

    Girl’s Molestation, Murder in 1949 Prompted Tougher Laws

  22. steve@tim moore

    Hey Tim I’m down for a deep sea fishing trip out of H&M anytime!

  23. Hysteria

    I have been coming to this site for a while, and notice a lot fewer comments recently. Do people just get tired of reading all the bad news and leave? I wish something positive would happen for the entire registry, and not just something that effects 5 S.V.P.s in Georgia
    (example). I need something to give me some hope in my own life.

  24. Hysteria

    I just listened to a stunning report on the church sex abuse scandal.
    30 names were reacted from the Penn. supreme court ruling with their blessing. The senate asked them to be redacted because ” it would financially break the church”.
    I have lost my job, my family, friends, my life! for looking some pictures, and these men can continue on with no punishment for RAPING AND MOLESTING young boys. Really? Tell me now that this is not about power and money.

    • CR

      I’m not sure I follow you. Are you saying that 30 people are being removed from the registry, or are being granted an exemption from registering, because it would harm a church? Or is it being convicted? What church? Can you supply any links to stories or other references?

      One thing I’d caution you is not to use terms like “rape” and “molest” unless you know they are applicable. In the state’s eyes, many of us are labeled “violent sexual predator” or similar based solely on the offense category. It may not correlate well to what we actually did.

  25. mike r

    The following that is included in my case was thanks to AJ’s researching skills. Just thought I would throw this out there…

    California’s SORA, both registration and notification, are wholly codified within the penal code and is exclusively and wholly administered and enforced by law enforcement agencies. Indeed, seemingly everything to do with California sex offenders is codified as penal. Even California’s Sex Offender Management Board (CASOMB) is in the penal code, located at “Part 3. Of Imprisonment and Death Penalty | Title 9. Punishment Options | Chapter 3. Sex Offender Management Board” (Cal. Penal Code §§ 9000 – 9003). Of note, and tellingly, Chapter 2 of Part 3, Title 9, is the “Community-Based Punishment Act.”

    Furthermore, the rules for the “management” and “supervision” of sex offenders are codified in the Penal Code Part 3. of Imprisonment and the Death Penalty [2000-10007], Title 9. Punishment Options [8000-9003], Chapter 3. Section 9000 et seq. Besides the probative value of where this section is codified (Punishment Options), the relevant section is 9000 (e) which states ““Supervision” means a specialized approach to the process of overseeing, insofar as authority to do so is granted to the supervising agency, all significant aspects of the lives of sex offenders who are being managed [supervised] as described in subdivision.” (emphasis added). Plaintiff remains under the direct “supervision” of the state in “all significant aspects” of Plaintiff’s life.

    And the final little snippet in this issue..

    This “supervision” along with all the onerous in-person reporting requirements, the at home compliance checks, the interference in Plaintiff’s child /grandchild custodial rights, the Plaintiff is statutorily prohibited from federal housing and residing in certain areas, banned from even being present in a vast array of locations, having to give notice every time Plaintiff visits another county or state, including 21 day advance notice if he plans to leave the country, the internet publication of sensitive private information about Plaintiff that is not otherwise available, combined with all the other direct and indirect affirmative disabilities, the state does indeed control “every significant aspect of Plaintiff’s life.” This is undoubtedly synonymous with probation or parole and even “more” sever in many aspects than what Plaintiff endured while he was on parole. Plaintiff’s case is incredibly distinguishable from Smith or “any” other cases brought before the Court.

    • AnotherAnon

      I’m pretty sure the California Supreme Court already decided this issue. Come to think of it, after Smith v. Doe, I think the 290 code was rewritten to include reference to public safety and rehabilitation, because the Alaska code was not in its Penal Code. So CA either had to take it out or save it. Even if not, the court reasoned:

      California Sex-Offender Registration Requirement Held “Not Punishment”
      Loaded on May 15, 2007 by John Dannenberg

      In re Alva (2004)33 Cal.4th 254

      “Nor is it dispositive that the registration statute appears in the Penal Code, and that the obligation to register is imposed as part of a criminal proceeding.”

      I hope you have something new and powerful because it will take an earthquake for the high court to overrule itself again. I think that is part of the reason it banned banishment, because it was too punishment-like and the registry could collapse under its own weight.

      • steve

        What’s new and powerful is that study after study recidivism rates are very low. This entire scheme is principled on “frighting and high” which has been debunked.

  26. Nondescript

    Governor Brown recently signed AB 1810. It may be of interest to our community.

    [This bill would establish a procedure of diversion for defendants with mental disorders through which the court would be authorized to grant pretrial diversion, for a period no longer than 2 years, to a defendant suffering from a mental disorder, on an accusatory pleading alleging the commission of a misdemeanor or felony offense, in order to allow the defendant to undergo mental health treatment ( input or output setting)]

    [Judges must dismiss charges against suspects who successfully complete the programs with the record filed with the DOJ indicating the arrest deemed never to have occurred]

    Mental disorder is any psychological impairment listed in the DSM including depression and anxiety.

    If anyone is charged with failure to register because of depression/memory problems and threatened with jail or prison time, this would be worth looking into.

    Hard to believe so many people are on a California registry, some for decades when new arrestees now get to go see a psychiatrist in leu of having a criminal record.

  27. Worried in Wisconsin

    I made contact with the registration specialist here in SE Wisconsin. She reached out to her contact with the US Marshal service about the passport issue (I renewed early to get a marked passport to put a visa in, but they sent an unmarked passport.)

    Here’s the reply from the US Marshal agent I received through the registration specialist:

    “I just got word on your guy that he is fine. The process to identify and mark all passports is going to be a slow process. Unless he is notified that he needs to get a new passport with the identifier, he is fine to utilize what he has. They are currently prioritizing the cases and doing those first. Hopefully this answers his question.”

    In other words, my new (unmarked) passport is valid, for now. Great. My guess is that what makes someone a priority is when they actually make use of their passport and travel abroad, so I will probably be good for one trip out of the country, and then I’ll have my new passport revoked after I return. And then I’ll have to apply for a duplicate visa. Oy.

    You’d think that sending ones passport in for renewal would get one prioritized, but apparently not.

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