ACSOL’s Conference Calls

Conference Call Recordings Online
Dial-in number: 1-712-770-8055, Conference Code: 983459

Monthly Meetings [details]
9/15 – Berkeley, 10/13 – W. Sacramento (date change), 10/20 – Los Angeles

Emotional Support Group: (Los Angeles): 8/24, 9/22, 10/27, 11/24, 12/22 [details]

Conference Videos Online7/14 Meeting Audio

General News

General Comments August 2018

Comments that are not specific to a certain post should go here, for the month of August 2018. Contributions should relate to the cause and goals of this organization and please, keep it courteous and civil.

Join the discussion

  1. ML

    I am no longer registered in any state. Is there anything that can be done about Homefacts, Mylife, Instant Checkmate and other similar sites that continue to list me falsely? Any court cases of any relief?

  2. AnothefAnon

    My sister discovered homefacts.com is tripling the convictions it lists per offender. That is libel. There is also a failure to list the conviction date.

    • AnotherAnon

      Did anyone else confirm that the homefacts.com offenses were tripled? I’m surprised more aren’t pissed.

  3. AnotherAnon

    Janice has already said she fought these publication and was shot down. So I’m just fishing.

    Is it possible that inaccurate disclosure of public records is a violation of The Privacy Act of 1974?

    https://www.justice.gov/opcl/conditions-disclosure-third-parties

    Maybe it is wrong for the DOJ to allow the inaccurate dissemination of its database. Maybe that is why it now requires a Captcha, probably to block spiders and bots, but too late.

    • Brian

      What about due process, how does that play in this passport schem they have going, did a judge ever says to you during sentencing that your passports would be affected by thses SO laws? I don’t think so. This is a violation of the constitution in my opinion.

      • AnotherAnon

        Excellent question.

        INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL AND THE CONSTITUTION
        Jeffrey Kahn*

        This Article makes the case for the fundamental right of U.S. citizens to leave
        their country and return home again. Surprisingly, Americans do not enjoy such
        a fundamental right. Under current U.S. Supreme Court precedents, the right to
        travel abroad is merely an aspect of liberty that may be restricted within the bounds
        of due process.

        https://www.uclalawreview.org/pdf/56-2-1.pdf

        Due process?

        • TS

          @AnotherAnon

          Excellent find here too. Certainly a great add to the discussion here on International Travel and due process.

        • David Kennerly is Frightening and High

          It is an excellent piece but one which I linked to here several years ago that I had hoped might find its way into the IML challenge.

      • AnotherAnon

        Full text of “The constitutional right to international travel tGun Violence Prevention Act of 1994 : public health and child safety : hearing before the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, One Hundred Third Congress, second session … October 5, 1994”

        https://archive.org/stream/constitutionalri00unit/constitutionalri00unit_djvu.txt

        • TS

          @AnotherAnon

          Excellent find here that goes above and beyond the Fordham doc I recently linked here for all to read if they desire. A long read for sure, this is, but certainly a great add to the discussion here on International Travel and due process. Many things could be pulled out and quoted in a case challenging travel (which I would include IML travel notifications, especially to those countries that turn back individuals once they have been notified), but I found this a nice paragraph to pull out:

          “The constitution Protects the Right to Travel. Most Americans do not realize that it is a crime for them to travel to Cuba and would be shocked to find out that is the case. They instinctively understand that the right to travel freely is part of the basic liberty which our democratic government was established to protect. Indeed, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Art. 13, recognizes the right to travel both inside one’s country and internationally. The Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized that the right to travel is protected under the Fifth Amendment as a liberty interest that cannot be deprived without due process of law. 1 Indeed, even the Executive Branch concedes that “the right to travel— both domestically and internationally—is constitutionally protected,” although it violates this principle in action. Report of the United States of America Under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, (ICCPR Report) July 28, 1994, Art. 12, p. 99.”

  4. Worried in Wisconsin

    I just sent in my passport for renewal early. My goal was to get the new passport with the IML marking now, so that when I get the visa I’m working on it will be attached to my new passport. I was worried that if the visa was attached to my old passport and it was revoked for not having the IML marking, I’d lose my visa and have lots of red tape to go through.

    So, I got the new passport today. Lo and behold, there is no IML marking. Since I’ve been sent to secondary screening each time I return to the US at passport control, I fully expected that I’d be given a new passport with the IML marking.

    What gives?

    Perhaps it’s because my state is not SORNA compliant? Perhaps for some reason I’m not on the Angle Watch list? Perhaps they just missed it? Perhaps I was supposed to fill out some special form?

    Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome. I’d love to just assume I’m lucky, but this is the kind of luck that’s likely to kick me in the ass later on.

  5. Worried in Wisconsin

    I just sent in my passport for renewal early. My goal was to get the new passport with the IML marking now, so that when I get the visa I’m working on it will be attached to my new passport. I was worried that if the visa was attached to my old passport and it was revoked for not having the IML marking, I’d lose my visa and have lots of red tape to go through to get a new visa.

    So, I got the new passport today. Lo and behold, there is no IML marking. Since I’ve been sent to secondary screening each time I return to the US at passport control, I fully expected that I’d be given a new passport with the IML marking since I’m on the registry with a minor victim.

    What gives?

    Perhaps it’s because my state is not SORNA compliant? Perhaps for some reason I’m not on the Angle Watch list? Perhaps they just missed it? Perhaps I was supposed to fill out some special form?

    Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome. I’d love to just assume I’m lucky, but this is the kind of luck that’s likely to kick me in the ass later on.

    • Jm from wi

      @worried in wi.
      A friend similarly sent in early to eliminate the anxiety of waiting for revocation before a trip. When he applied he sent his status, crime,etc. with the application. My thought is revocation is triggered by travel and maybe 21 day notice. RTAG was helpful to me and may have current info. My experience and feelings are the whole system doesn’t have a clue.

      • steve

        Wait…so you apply and PAY and get a new Passport with no marking. Then when you travel they revoke and you pay AGAIN?

        • JM of Wi.

          @steve
          “Wait…so you apply and PAY and get a new Passport with no marking. Then when you travel they revoke and you pay AGAIN?”
          Yes my friend & I each had 2016 passports- He sent his back & requested a marked one before we traveled, I traveled and was revoked – (post travel).

        • JM of Wi.

          yes

    • CR

      Pretty much what I figured would happen when you asked about this a while back. It’s been clear from the experiences related by others on this forum that one hand of the State department knows not what the other is doing. They really don’t seem to have their act together. The experience of others who have reported here also suggest that it is international travel that triggers the revocation.

      When dealing with the government, it’s best to assume that the least favorable (to you) outcome is the most likely to come to pass. Since you weren’t under any obligation to proactively apply for a new passport yet, you shouldn’t have.

      I expect you’ll get your revocation letter within a week or so of returning from your next international trip. Then you’ll need to incur yet more expense (time and money) to get your new, marked passport.

  6. Hysteria

    Things that make you go “hmmmm”,

    How is it that men and women on nude beaches, nudist camps, and clothing optional environments can expose their genitalia in front of minors and not be charged.

    • wonderin

      Nudist engage in their activity for other reasons than sexual gratification.

    • TS

      Clothing option areas are legal because they have been permitted to be clothing optional areas. Those who enjoy them must stay within their confines if they do go clothing optional or risk the standard legal ramifications if they go outside of it sans clothing.

      • David Kennerly is Frightening and High

        Well, naturist locations have not, traditionally, had anything to do with any specific law on nudity and everything to do with the rights afforded private property. There is really no quid pro quo back-and-forth between the state and recognized nudist locations except perhaps informally, in the case of public resources (namely, beaches), where there was probably a simple understanding of where nudity might or might not occur. That would come into play in places like Baker’s Beach in San Francisco and maybe Black’s Beach in the San Diego area. The point I’m making is that laws governing private nudity really don’t exist apart from any much more recent hysterical laws which might exist as it relates to children. The thing that we really need to understand is the sea change in laws governing child nudity, or their exposure to nudity, which we are witnessing. For example, simple nudity of children is now considered to be “child abuse material.” No doubt, naturist culture has been strongly affected by both laws and public hysteria. What was once fully within the domain of parental rights, kids’ rights and private behavior is being actively threatened and encroached upon by an ever-more intrusive state. Given that, it’s easy to see how the naturist movement is a shadow of its former self. Even San Francisco, which once had (famously) no laws on public nudity, now bans it. While I may not have really enjoyed the very rare nude individual I might encounter in the park or walking down the street, I hate much more a government that decides for me that I must not see it. The rationale for that law, as always, is the possibility that children might encounter the sight of the unclothed body.

        • Tim Moore

          Well that was the exact excuse that closed down the city owned part of Blacks Beach is San Diego. Some people started complaining that the swimsuit optional beach was too close to an elementary school. The council soon voted to revoke the swimsuit optional ordinance. The nudists moved over to the State part of the beach. I think it survives, because it is a tourist attraction, and is kind of a tradition.

  7. Hysteria

    Looking for some level headed advice.

    A fellow tenant in the apt. Complex is telling all they talks to that I am a ” chomo” . I tried to confront them about it, but that isn’t happening. They are on parole for drug violations and are living there compliments of the city. Do to the culture of the people that frequent their apt. , I am concerned about car vandalism, or an outright confrontation. I am very capable of handling any physical attack, but am worried about once flood gates open, if all this pent up depressive anxietal emotion will cause me to just not stop. I have no where to go to get away from this situation. Looking to see if others have experienced this. I know this is to be expected, but I am coming to the end of my tolerance.

    Thx

    • Timmr

      Yeah, isn’t seeing a naked adult supposed to damage a child for life. Sheesh.

    • Worried in Wisconsin

      My advice is to take care of your own health in this situation the best you can, both physically and emotionally. You can’t control them so don’t even try. Best bet is to focus on what you have control over, which is yourself. Find someone to talk to, whether it be a compassionate clergy member or a counselor and work on your depression and anxiety. Not easy – but it can be done. We’ve all had situations like this and in my experience, just when it seems things can’t get any worse a bright light will appear from somewhere. Grab onto it.

      • Hysteria

        My emotional eneegy is so low that I find it difficult to even cry.
        I wake up dreading to leave apartment. And when I do, I get anxious to get back so I can close off the world.
        Tried meds, but nothing has helped. I guess I have to just accept that I will be living a nightmare from here ob.

        • Matt

          Hysteria, I read your post. You said, “I have no where to go to get away from this situation.” I’m not sure exactly what that means, but if you’re like most of us, it’s usually a family obligation, a financial limitation, or job related. I sympathize. That said, my suggestion for anybody in this position is to try very hard to create space between yourself and those who you’re having problems with. For me, that meant moving out of town and into the country. I am not talking about an off-grid shack in the middle of a forest. But being in a home, or an RV, in the unincorporated area of your county, rather than in the city limits, can be a form of relief. It is not easy. It takes planning, strategy, and at least a little money. But it can be done. I think most of the problems in any population can be alleviated by creating space between people. When you stack people on top of each other, bad things happen. For people in our position, it’s compounded exponentially. My advice, for what it’s worth: Set a goal to move out of your apartment by a realistic date. Then do whatever it takes to achieve that goal. I believe you when you say that you can physically take care of yourself. But in the same thread, you said that you’re emotionally drained. There is a tipping point. You may be physically able to defend yourself, but the day will come when you can’t, for one reason or another. I personally have a lot of experience (and advanced training) with hand-to-hand combat. Here’s the problem: If you can handle yourself against one or two people, they will figure that out and bring three or four. Or more likely, you’ll be so tired, run down, and worn out that your actual application of self defense abilities will be limited. Remember too that if you’re description of these people means that they’re drug-addicted, they’ll be unpredictable. And they’ll do things like you suggested that you can’t defend for…..like damaging your property. I encourage you to find a way to get away from them. Search the internet, for example, for cheap ways for poor people to buy rural properties. It can be done. The added benefit of doing this is that in addition to the peace of mind you’ll get by being relieved of physical threats, you’ll be far more emotionally healthy if you listen to crickets and coyotes instead of crackheads and car alarms. Good luck!

        • Tim Moore

          Matt, that is my solution also to soul crushing depression, caused by the brutality of human kind — get away from your abusers and out into Nature. She doesn’t classify you as a sex offender. You’re equal to everyone else when you are in Gaia’s house.

    • AnotherAnon

      @Hysteria Might I suggest https://activeselfprotection.com/ ? There are a few reasons for bringing it up. 1) He focuses on legal self defense and often points out situations when self defense was an over reaction. When a person ends up in jail or prison for self defense, they actually lost the fight. 2) He has videos on awareness and your environment. 3) He has videos on practical application, including knives if you can legally possess them (according some some lawyer sites, California as generous knife laws if not on probation or parole, but are still restricted in some places). 4) It will give you something else to concentrate on, which can be empowering.

  8. AnotherAnon

    Working days calculator:

    http://www.lacourt.org/courtdatecalculator/ui/

    From today, Aug 13, five working days is Aug 20.

  9. Hysteria

    Thx for response Matt. Yes, finances are a huge part of my issues right now. Work situation has been stressful along with bills mounting. Never had these issues before and now that’s all I have. Having your livelihood taken from you along with your life is overwelming. I keep looking for opportunities, but nothing seems to pan out. I told someone yesterday ( I met from this site) that I truly feel like an unwanted person.

    • C

      My heart goes out to you, my friend. How are you getting by? What line of work are/were you in?

  10. Bill Arthur

    Janice, have you (and ACSOL) essentially given up on a legal fight against IML? If so, why not get in contact with lawyers in other jurisdictions (Colorado, Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc.) who have had success lately, in courts that are apparently more reasonable than in California? You could pass along the details of your two experiences in this matter and encourage them to try — perhaps a different approach. Every day, more people are reporting their passports cancelled and the problems this is causing them. Is there nothing than can be done in the courts? If it’s a question of money, my guess is that a special fund for this purpose would be well received, considering that the IML is a financial burden to many of us (hindering business travel, etc.).

    • Harry

      To me, it is obvious that IML is un-constitutional and it is not American. It baffles me why there are problems of getting past these lower courts. Is the US judicial system corrupt? I read everyday, where those whom are illegal in this country are scoring victories, in the name of rights, however, we can not get our day in court. I also, feel the since of abandonment.

    • Bob Peterson

      I agree wth 100%Lets fight against mark in the passport,sending letters that we coming for the child sex tourism .That find ways what to do,let’s call competitive lawyers,write petition go to DC …

    • E

      I believe NARSOL recently mentioned on their call that Allison Ruttenberg, the amazing atty in the CO Judge Matsch case, is closing her practice due to personal (health?) issues. So sad. We seem to be losing a true champion in Ms Ruttenberg.

      • David

        That news is very sad and disheartening. In any case, I wish her the best and send her great appreciation for all she has done for our community.

  11. USA

    Here is the 1 Million Dollar Question? What if you don’t have a SARATSO score? Who does this? By 2021, I’ll have a 25 year old expunged misdemeanor?

    • TG

      I have the same question. I am also wondering if there is a way to find out whether you have one, and if so what the score is.

      • steve @TG

        If you have a score it is posted online with your price club membership.

    • AnotherAnon

      Janice as pointed out the SARATSO only applies to those released over the last 10 years or so.

      Now hand over the $.

    • steve

      Right now those of us who have so SARASTSO will have to wait until 2023 (which is BS) to get scored or until they figure out what to do with us. I am hoping Janice can lobby the legislature to add an amendment so they we can go get a private score before 2021.

      • Relief

        @Steve – Do you have a source for your 2023 date for non-scores?
        You may be right as I have mentioned several times that the DOJ has an extra 2 years of “Limbo” to categorize registrants at their ‘discretion’. Just haven’t seen any references to Non Static scores or not being able to provide you own at petition (?)

        • AnotherAnon

          My bet is that there isn’t a 2023 source because the reliability of the SARATSO fades to nothing after enough time. Looks like we’ll have to wait for the regulations.

        • steve

          I just remember reading something that gives them two years FROM 2021 to classify. Like I said, I hope there is something janice and team can do to speed that process up. Most of us who don’t have a SARASOT have been on the list 15, 20 30 years.

        • SARATSO Scam

          I don’t understand why the SARATSO/Static-99R is given weight when the Coding Rules clearly state its validity for only two years. Refer to page 13: “Static risk assessments estimate the likelihood of recidivism at the time of release and we expect they would be valid for approximately two years.”

          http://static99.org/pdfdocs/Coding_manual_2016_InPRESS.pdf

          Also, the SARATSO also consist of the LS/CMI. The LS/CMI, unlike the Static-99R (which is static), is a dynamic assessment tool. But strangely, the LS/CMI is completely ignored by CASOMB and the DOJ when it comes to “tiering.” Of course, the LS/CMI does *not* exaggerate like the Static-99R — which may be at least one reason why virtually no weight is given to the LS/CMI. It is entirely possible to have a “high” Static/SARATSO score, while also having a “very low” or “low” LS/CMI.

          A lot of things don’t make sense regarding the use of any “risk assessment.”

      • Relief

        @Steve – Yes, SB 384 allows up to 2023 for the DOJ to classify your Tier and there has been some discussion about those without scores. Approximately 22,000 have a STATIC-99R, ~25%. It becomes important for those who may be listed under Tier 3 for a high score of 6+.

        It’s unknown how difficult the petitioning process will be, but this is an important component of the new Tier law which we will need to find out more about.

        A Tier projection paper for the ACSOL board shows a rough estimate of ~28,000 registrants may be eligible to “immediately” apply for relief in 2021-2023. Petitioners may likely need to provide a current forensic psych report to the court. If this is the case, a STATIC-99R, which looks at 10 objective variables could perhaps also be calculated by the psych evaluator as “at time of conviction” and submitted along with the petition. (yes, I understand that an old STATIC score is mostly invalid, but the law says…)
        Since you would have / need an attorney on the petitioning, it can be reasoned that if the only issue standing in the way of relief is an “old STATIC-99R”, then an after fact submission by an acceptable 3rd party via your lawyer should suffice.
        Hopefully we will know for certain before 2021.

  12. mike r

    Hey I noticed that Ira Ellman is now on the board at ACSOL. Janice and team, can I subpoena Ms. Ellman to use as an expert witness in my case when my case moves forward to trial?

    • TS

      @mike r

      Why wouldn’t you be able to subpoena Ms. Ellman?

      • mike r

        I do not know exactly how that subpoena process works. I cannot seem to find definitive answers on to whether I can just pick an expert and subpoena them. I would really rather just have them testify voluntarily as compared to the subpoena option. I think Mr. Ellmen’s testimony could be very beneficial. Hopefully when my case moves forward, especially if the judge denies the AG’s partial motion to dismiss, that someone will step up and volunteer some assistance. If the court denies that MTD I think I might even ask the court to appoint counsel but as assistance only for things like preparing the pretrial statement and for issues like this about getting expert testimony. I know I am going to exploit the AG’s own sources such as her legislative fact finder as well as Hanson’s declaration etc. but like I said it would be nice to get some backing from someone in the professional world. IDK if it is because of my charges or what but whatever. You know they called me a predator trolling online for little girls which is a bunch of crap but maybe these orgs just see it like the state actors and DA’s seen it or described it. IDK, all I know is that I am not a risk to re-offend and I will never even consider it. It has been nearly fifteen years now and I am married, have a grandson and granddaughter on the way, in college, and I can go on and on but I still wonder if it was someone else with different charges if they would be willing to stand with me or if they are just waiting to see how far I can go myself or what but it sure would be nice to get that backing. I guess it really does not matter since I am going it alone and hell it may be the best as it seems only Pro Se are doing anything anyways….

        • steve

          Isi it possible Janice is waiting to see how far you get then will join? Thanks Mike for your hard work in this.

        • TS

          @mike r

          I, and others here, understand you want their word on the record, so the state cannot wiggle away from it. I truly hope that can happen for you and yours in your effort.

          Do you want to subpoena for discovery, i.e. deposition for data, for the case, or both? From your effort to date you’ve shared, you want them to corroborate their study findings, etc, on the stand for your behalf. The expert could be willing to help you given the nature of your case, the topic nationwide, etc, and a subpoena may be unnecessary, but more below on that.

          Since you are Pro Se, the court clerk will help with the subpoena process including paying all related subpoena fees, i.e. witness fees, travel fees, etc. A subpoena could catch them by surprise (and appear hostile?), but they may be used to subpoenas in their line of work.

          The best course of action, as I see it, would be to introduce yourself and your case to the expert by providing them an introduction document of your case to date before going w/a subpoena. This should give them an understanding of the charges, the actions taken by the state, the actions taken by yourself, and what you’re trying to accomplish so they could provide the best angle to help from, if they decide they want to be of assistance in your case. That would be the line, I think, from which a subpoena may or may not be necessary.

          A reference point for you, here is my experience: The top of the line experts I have consulted have a large hourly rate, e.g. $400-$550/hr, in addition to other fees, i.e. travel, etc, to which they expect to be paid for via retainer beforehand for their expert opinion whether it is in a case specific report, on the stand, or both after reading case specifics. An expert is possibly not going to donate their time to your case, unless it is so egregious and they can use it in the future. That is not definitive but a possibly because they could donate depending on the case.

          Just a few thoughts to consider, which you may already have done, as you are walking this path while sharing with us (which we appreciate).

    • David

      @ mike r: Why would you subpoena someone when you could simply ask him/her if he/she would be willing to testify as an expert witness?? 🤔

  13. R M

    Mark Stewart Greenstein, Connecticut running for Governor
    If you can vote in Connecticut, this guys not for you.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtOBdMhRkVg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8dlJ6N6WmY

  14. Old RSO

    Hello,
    I found this site and want to comment.
    I am an RSO, over 50 yrs old, and as most of you have experienced, have had my life ripped from my hands.
    I lost my occupation, savings, and dreams. I am here because of an internet offense ( 1 ct. C.P.) in N.Ca.
    I rec’d probation and am off now, but realize that is nothing compared to the dim future I face. I have nothing left of my past life, and maybe that’s a good thing.
    My savings went away and now I face a very bleak existence. Anybody that is in or came from same boat, luv to talk and get advice. Overwhelming is an understatement.

    • Lake County

      You will find a large number of us are in the same situation as you with the same charges. I would suggest getting a separate email account that you can post here and you will likely get a response. Or you can just ask any questions you have here. We have a knowledgeable group here, but not every question will have an answer as many issues have not been litigated yet. Even experienced attorneys will not agree on all the answers regarding us registered citizens. The best thing you can do is just deal with life on a day to day basis, worrying about tomorrow and the future will only make you depressed.

      • Old RSO

        Thx for response.
        I have an dedicated email set up for this site. I have done a ton of reading and some of the stories are so depressing that I could not finish the article.
        Seems like with all the research data, nothing matters to those who run (ruin!) our lives. To think I voted for some of these people.
        One thing I have read is that moving to Europe seems to be the best opportunity to live some semblance of a life.

  15. Steveo

    @Overwhelmed 50 year old,

    I’m 52. My court date was 25 years ago this coming January. We’ve all suffered, that’s true, but there’s guys that destroy their lives without doing what we did. This whole world is full of brokenness, even couples who stay together often suffer and lose everything. Social media and advertising only shows us the ideal, and no one is living that. One thing that people who’ve been crushed by life like us have that many others don’t is a chance for a more honest perspective on ourselves, and this life. People who’ve suffered often have something to say that’s worth hearing. Anyway, I can only say that finding a church that takes the gospel seriously that was willing to accept me and my family has been a big part of my life being a whole lot different. We actuially have a Christian family that actuially cares and prays about us. Only the pastor and elders were told, but I’m sure anyone can look me up online whenever they want. I just have to push all that out of my mind, and trust that the Lord will take care of me and my family as He has so far. I actuially feel very grateful for what all I do have, and so seeking to find contentment with the good things that you do have such as your health, your mind, food on your plate, a warm place to live when it’s cold and a cool place to live when its hot. A lot of people don’t have that. Contentment is a hard place to get to, because I’m sure I could be off the registry, be a multi-millionaire with a trophy wife and be absolutely miserable. So, it takes a purposeful effort to start counting, and listing your blessings, and the things that you are thankful for, and we each have a lot more things to be thankful for than we realize.

    Many people live their entire lives looking for happiness which they think is always around the next corner. if only X would happen, or if only I could get X, then I would be happy… Well, not necessarily, often there is another X behind that one that you have to have, and then another X behind that one… One thing you have going for you at this point is you are a bit wiser than you used to be… That can go a long way.

  16. Florida Sucks

    admins may want to make this perm link

    remove yourself from search websites

    you might want to post this or make it a sticky

    remove yourself from search websites

    https://www.abine.com/optouts.php

  17. David Kennerly is Frightening and High

    As many of you may know, Galen Baughman, once a rising star in our reform movement, is now being considered by Virginia for commitment as a “sexually violent predator.” NARSOL has issued a statement on this affair here: “NARSOL condemns civil commitment practices” ///

    https://narsol.org/2018/08/narsol-condemns-civil-commitment-practices

    Here is my own comment to this development: I would like NARSOL to weigh-in on the subject of the legal use of the term “SEXUAL VIOLENCE.” The term “sexually violent predator” is being thrown around very casually in society and by the media today but in an especially pernicious way by our own government. Let’s please shed some light on how that term is used, and misused, especially for the purpose of throwing people like Galen Baughman into indefinite, usually lifetime, imprisonment in these sham “hospitals.”

    Many people on the Registry themselves are unaware of the sleight-of-hand being performed by the state (i.e. both federal and state governments) as a means to denigrate individuals who have no capacity for violence and have never demonstrated anything like a violent impulse nor used coercion or force in the commission of their crimes. That cynical legerdemain by the professional victimologists is simply this: governments have now redefined the word “violent” in age-of-consent cases to mean that the younger party is below a particular arbitrary age which varies among the states but which is often set at fourteen (as here in California). Anyone whose victim is below that arbitrary age is to be seen for all legal purposes and by the public as “sexually violent.”

    Paul [Shannon] will remember me as the organizer for the first protest at Coalinga State Hospital in Coalinga, California many years ago and to which RSOL lent its support. Since then, nothing good has changed at that facility apart from a somewhat larger number of “hosprisoners” being released over time. The central conceit that keeps many of those hosprisoners locked-up in Coalinga (those who did not exercise the use of violence in their crimes, which is the VAST majority of its inhabitants) is that they are “violent sexual predators.”

    We need to tackle that issue [and define “sexual violence” as it is used in law] if we are to make any headway against civil commitment incarceration.

    I feel for Galen and know him to be passive and non-violent. We did not always agree on some issues during his brief respite from incarceration but his loss from our community was felt by all, including me.

    Thanks too to Judith Levine for her words here and her continued support as a champion of our cause. Also my thanks to her friend Debbie Nathan who has done much to expand awareness of the power and extents of the greatest witchhunt in recorded history.

    • Hysteria

      After reading the article, I have two things to say.
      1. WTF was he thinkin’! How could an educated, informed man make such a dumb decision. It’s like putting your hand in a disposal after you see what it does to garbage!
      2. How does this warrant a SVP label. There is NO violence! There is no SEX! There is only a text conversation and a system looking to protect every person from every possible danger on earth.

    • David Kennerly Wants To Know: Is It Me Or Is This Creepy & Wrong?

      In the “Is It Me Or Is This Creepy & Wrong?” Department: I have spoken a number of times about, to my mind, the cynical and dishonest moves by government and the social entrepreneurs to distort the English language and to foist the term “sexual violence” upon an unsuspecting public to mischaracterize decidedly NON-violent individuals as “sexually violent” (and “predatory”) by redefining “violence” to mean having sexual contact with a minor (and such contact itself having been expansively defined over the years) who is below some arbitrary age (fourteen in California) and even in the complete absence of actual violence or coercion? Am I wrong to feel outrage at this redefinition of a term which was once commonly understood but which now requires intimate knowledge of statutory codes to comprehend and appreciate its revised meaning? Am I wrong for identifying this redefinition as a fundamentally dishonest ploy to further marginalize the “sex offender?” Am I wrong in my contention that we need to acknowledge, at least within our own community if not in our public message, that the term no longer reliably means what nearly anyone would expect it to mean? I really want to know and would be grateful to hear your views.

      • Will Allen

        David Kennerly:

        It is not just you, it is wrong and inaccurate to refer to anything as “$EXUALLY violent” when no violence occurred. It cheapens actual acts of violence, involving $EX or not. It is dishonest and manipulative. I do feel as if the terrorist Nanny Big Governments (NBG) that have Registries and civil commitment facilities do it on purpose to try to make their propaganda and lies as effective as it can be. They would call every Registered Person a “baby raper” if they thought they could get away with it.

        And let’s make no mistake about it, most people who support the Registries and especially civil commitment are not good, decent people. They are little different than the “good” Nazis were. They are war criminals who are attacking and harassing other people for some gain for themselves, even if that gain is something as trivial and meaningless as their jollies. But in the case of civil commitment, it is most likely for $$$$$ and hate.

        F those people. War must be waged on them. People who are attacked by “civil commitment” need to massively retaliate. I do believe some civil commitment is warranted. But if it not, the retaliation needs to be massive.

        NBG propaganda and lies are why good people cannot fully support things like #metoo. That can’t be fully supported because we know that NBG is rarely the solution to anything. People should rarely voluntarily involve NBG in anything. They are clearly not on the moral high road and they simply cannot be trusted. So no one should blindly support #metoo. It is important to help actual victims. But it is critical that people do not simply believe anyone who says that he/she was a victim. There must always be proof and facts.

        That “if you see something, say something”? Forget that.

        • Counting the days

          I read what happened with your Trip to Thailand( my home is/ was there). I guess I can finally give up now. I kept wishing, and praying that this was a bad dream and that I would somehow pull through this and get back, but now I just hope I have the strength to end it. I am truly sorry for the pain I have caused.

      • CR

        I share your outrage. I have been outraged about it since the I first encountered this particular example of the government’s manipulative linguistic deception back in the mid-90s. It does society no good to pollute and dilute the meaning of a word so that its former clear meaning becomes ambiguous.

        There is no doubt that the intent, as well as the effect, is to amplify the opprobrium associated with our past criminal acts to the maximum extent possible. That makes it easier for legislators to pass new laws targeting us that purportedly safeguard the public, and it encourages the public to fear us, shun us, and revile even the least violent, least threatening, and least dangerous among us.

      • AnoterAnon

        What percentage of the public knows it is possible to be convicted of a 288 offense without touching the minor under 14? How many know that is classified as sexual violence? This video makes it plain and simple:

        https://www.wklaw.com/lewd-or-lascivious-act-with-a-child-pc-288/

        However, public understanding is usually arrived at by filling in the blanks with visions of horrid news stories, mostly murders of little children.

        So it is much more complicated. While the video above makes it clear, full understanding would take a lot of work and time. For example, there is debate by the experts on what violence is and how to interpret it.

        Sexual Sadism: Avoiding Its Misuse in Sexually Violent Predator Evaluations

        http://jaapl.org/content/jaapl/40/3/409.full.pdf

        Compare and contrast the video above with the paper on sadism. It is unlikely the public will experience either to come to any understanding in reality. Why should they even try? After all, they have their news stories. If the public knew non-touch can be violence, that is one thing, but to not even know it is quite another. I didn’t know until Googling it today.

        • Tim Moore

          The word violence is used like the word trafficking. It is a label people paste on others when they want to say the wearer is beyond redemption. People believe it without proof or much thought given to what it means.

      • Agree w/ David Kennerly

        Absolutely agree that government distorts the English language when it comes to labeling “sexually violent predators.” We see distortion growing in form when it comes to labeling “high” risk sex offenders as well. By what measurement? 10 Static-99R scam “risk factors,” based off of lumping all offenses and people together, that have nothing to do with one’s current place in life?

        It will be interesting to see how politicians will distort the English language in the future, ala “Patriot Act” (which has the perverse effect of stomp on everyone’s civil liberties), as well as the U.S. Marshall’s “SMART Office” (still don’t understand what’s smart about said office).

      • David Kennerly

        So apparently it’s not just me 🙂 Thanks to those who weighed in on this oft-overlooked but completely Orwellian abuse of the English language. Language is important, after all, and central to our ability to think clearly and rationally about what is real and to distinguish it from superstition, the frenzy of the mob and atavistic tribal hatred. We must not let this (genuine) abuse of language to pass without challenge as that would be ceding the authority to those who cannot be trusted to determine what the rest must think.

  18. mike r

    Thanks for the feed back people. Yeah you all have good advice and I think I will get a hold of Ellmen if necessary, I may not even need an expert with all the reports and conclusions from the CASOMB and the rest of the gov entities. Those are probably going to be my best witnesses without even being there. I think the courts are fed up with this crap and as soon as a good case such as mine gets in front of them they are going to take some kind of action. That one article states it pretty well when they state that the fact that the court considered the registry cruel and unusual punishment is unprecedented in anything besides a death penalty or life sentence for juveniles. That is like one of the hardest bars to hurdle in case law and I think it is the right decision as well.

  19. NotFree

    So right before the first day of school the district sends out an email about a new visitor check in process. They’re going to be using the Raptor Visitor Management system.

    The email says it checks for registered people. It emphasizes that the sex offense registries are the only databases it checks.

    I guess murderers, wife beaters and drug addicts are ok.

    I hate this. I want off this train.

    • E

      Same here, last year. Craziness. My kids do NOT understand.

    • steve

      Hopefully they only use it during school hours going thru the main bldg. It’s hard to imagine them using them at sporting events and school plays etc…My last just graduated high school thank god.

      • Hysteria

        I feel you out there with family are so fortunate. Having no one to talk to, confide in, and just be there for you is one of the toughest aspects of this. I could win the lottery tomorrow and would give it away to just have a family to be with. Knowing that a person out there will not judge you and appreciates you as a human being is huge.

        • Tim Moore

          I have a biological family and I am grateful, but outside that there is not much. One needs a community. Notheless, I have been coming to this sight for years and have gotten to know nd love individuals here by their words, and they are all precious even when there is disagreement . It’s like a big family tied together over cyber space and one connecting factor — the registry. Just like in all families people comfort one another, have fights, share stories and help each other out. I wish we could all go out one day on a boat or go fishing or see a play, whatever. We need to get away from this shit hole of laws, in spirit anyway, be with people who don’t pre-judge you once they know you’re a registrant, and it would be great if we could do it like a family.

        • Trish

          @Hysteria

          Forget Government, God…Family at the moment…..I will be your family ! Anytime you need to talk I will help as much as possible ! We are born alone and die alone ! Be friendly to have friends ! Life is about all the little things conversations etc. You sound like a fun intelligent sand interesting guy !

  20. Civil rights first

    So I was recently reading the statutes for Washington State that pertain to the registration laws and many of the case laws challenging the registration as violation of ex post facto. With many of the rulings dismissing those challenges stating that the registration laws don’t meet the same requirement of being ex post facto violations because the requirement to register is civil in nature. Then my question in why is the RCW that pertains to registration in Washington state (RCW 9A.44.130) listed as a criminal code? If it is listed as a criminal code how can they say it’s civil?

    • TS

      @civil rights first

      It sounds like you have grounds for a suit alleging it really is a criminal code and not a civil code matter and forces the courts to decide whether it is or not and make the folks in Olympia act on it. You certainly would grab their attention obviously but the attention possibly of other legislatures also in the nation who have it listed the same.

  21. AnotherAnon

    California’s is listed under the Penal Code too. They get around that by claiming in the law that the purpose is for public safety and rehabilitation, etc.

    • Civil rights first

      Yeah .. not that it matters.. the courts will interoperate everything against us. If we could make a judge live under the rso tag an for to rules for 1 year I bet they would change their tune.

    • Tim Moore

      I remember the SCOTUS had an answer to that in Smith vs. Doe.

  22. AnotherAnon

    When Googling stuff, this article pops up again and again. This is false. 288 was a felony at this time already, and it carried up to a life sentence under California’s old indeterminate sentencing law. Terrible case, yes, but the article is still wrong. I tried to get the Times to fix it once, ignored. Maybe the author was confusing the misdemeanor 647a (annoy or molest, which is void for being redundant, but no one has challenged it).

    This was the start of the registry in the United States.

    Girl’s Molestation, Murder in 1949 Prompted Tougher Laws
    http://articles.latimes.com/2004/aug/29/local/me-then29

  23. steve@tim moore

    Hey Tim I’m down for a deep sea fishing trip out of H&M anytime!

  24. Hysteria

    I have been coming to this site for a while, and notice a lot fewer comments recently. Do people just get tired of reading all the bad news and leave? I wish something positive would happen for the entire registry, and not just something that effects 5 S.V.P.s in Georgia
    (example). I need something to give me some hope in my own life.

    • AJ

      @Hysteria:
      “I have been coming to this site for a while, and notice a lot fewer comments recently. Do people just get tired of reading all the bad news and leave?”
      —–
      I don’t know about any others, but due to the problems with the “Recent Comments” page, I’ve severely limited my time here. I use Recent Comments to get a quick review of topics and conversation, so when it was all gobblegooked up, I simply quit coming to ACSOL, let alone commenting. It’s still not fixed (it’d be nice to know who posted what, since some people I simply don’t read), but it’s at least usable now.

      As for getting tired of reading all the bad news, that’s not what drives me away. Instead, I get tired of the same old complaints, sniping, and jawing (see above re: people I simply don’t read). Yes, I’ve been guilty of that from time to time, but I try to remain neutral, informative, and/or positive anymore. That certainly limits how much I’m personally posting.

      I suspect I’m not the only one operating this way, so perhaps that’s where the drop-off is coming from.

    • Tim Moore

      It’s like you’re waiting in the trenches for word when to start fighting and having nothing to do but talk about how the battle is not being run to your satisfaction and what heroic things you are going to do once you get word to make the advance. This story telling gives some comfort to the frustrated foot soldiers seeing the enemy advance, and there is nothing you can do, just waiting for orders. So after a time you get weary of the words, like prayer offerings that are never answered, and you get out of the trenches to go fight the battle in your own particular way right or wrong. You are at least moving in a direction under your own power, which is what life means; or you leave and greet a more subdued life somewhere in the quiet forest behind the lines. Waiting like a sitting duck and then squawking just to break the tention while the storm advances is like being already dead.

  25. Hysteria

    I just listened to a stunning report on the church sex abuse scandal.
    30 names were reacted from the Penn. supreme court ruling with their blessing. The senate asked them to be redacted because ” it would financially break the church”.
    I have lost my job, my family, friends, my life! for looking some pictures, and these men can continue on with no punishment for RAPING AND MOLESTING young boys. Really? Tell me now that this is not about power and money.

    • CR

      I’m not sure I follow you. Are you saying that 30 people are being removed from the registry, or are being granted an exemption from registering, because it would harm a church? Or is it being convicted? What church? Can you supply any links to stories or other references?

      One thing I’d caution you is not to use terms like “rape” and “molest” unless you know they are applicable. In the state’s eyes, many of us are labeled “violent sexual predator” or similar based solely on the offense category. It may not correlate well to what we actually did.

      • David Kennerly's Government-Driven Life

        Indeed, I am very uncomfortable with assuming anything about Catholic priests’ ostensible “predations” these days. I’ve followed closely the stories of several priests who were, undoubtedly, innocent and, given the hysteria surrounding the topic, am sure there are many more. Let’s not be so quick to come to conclusions nor assume that we know the true details of these allegations. There are many other questions, including those about mass hysteria, that are not being addressed or even asked today. Injustice thrives in the absence of skepticism and we live in a credulous and hysterical age.

        • Tim Moore

          It doesn’t matter to us as registrants if the priests did it or not. This only reinforces the belief in the collective brain of Americans that everyone convicted of a sex crime against a minor has 100’s of victims.

      • Hysteria

        The names have been reacted from report. Which means there is a chance these people will not be identified and held accountable. No indictment, no conviction, no nothing. All for the sake of saving church from law suits.

    • TS

      To add to the blurb here on the Catholic Church in it’s current PA storm, I found this article below this morning which I felt would be a a good add here:

      The Church is tempted by power and obsessed with sex

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-church-is-tempted-by-power-and-obsessed-with-sex/2018/08/17/14467d3c-a24b-11e8-8e87-c869fe70a721_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c50b143e598c

  26. mike r

    The following that is included in my case was thanks to AJ’s researching skills. Just thought I would throw this out there…

    California’s SORA, both registration and notification, are wholly codified within the penal code and is exclusively and wholly administered and enforced by law enforcement agencies. Indeed, seemingly everything to do with California sex offenders is codified as penal. Even California’s Sex Offender Management Board (CASOMB) is in the penal code, located at “Part 3. Of Imprisonment and Death Penalty | Title 9. Punishment Options | Chapter 3. Sex Offender Management Board” (Cal. Penal Code §§ 9000 – 9003). Of note, and tellingly, Chapter 2 of Part 3, Title 9, is the “Community-Based Punishment Act.”

    Furthermore, the rules for the “management” and “supervision” of sex offenders are codified in the Penal Code Part 3. of Imprisonment and the Death Penalty [2000-10007], Title 9. Punishment Options [8000-9003], Chapter 3. Section 9000 et seq. Besides the probative value of where this section is codified (Punishment Options), the relevant section is 9000 (e) which states ““Supervision” means a specialized approach to the process of overseeing, insofar as authority to do so is granted to the supervising agency, all significant aspects of the lives of sex offenders who are being managed [supervised] as described in subdivision.” (emphasis added). Plaintiff remains under the direct “supervision” of the state in “all significant aspects” of Plaintiff’s life.

    And the final little snippet in this issue..

    This “supervision” along with all the onerous in-person reporting requirements, the at home compliance checks, the interference in Plaintiff’s child /grandchild custodial rights, the Plaintiff is statutorily prohibited from federal housing and residing in certain areas, banned from even being present in a vast array of locations, having to give notice every time Plaintiff visits another county or state, including 21 day advance notice if he plans to leave the country, the internet publication of sensitive private information about Plaintiff that is not otherwise available, combined with all the other direct and indirect affirmative disabilities, the state does indeed control “every significant aspect of Plaintiff’s life.” This is undoubtedly synonymous with probation or parole and even “more” sever in many aspects than what Plaintiff endured while he was on parole. Plaintiff’s case is incredibly distinguishable from Smith or “any” other cases brought before the Court.

    • AnotherAnon

      I’m pretty sure the California Supreme Court already decided this issue. Come to think of it, after Smith v. Doe, I think the 290 code was rewritten to include reference to public safety and rehabilitation, because the Alaska code was not in its Penal Code. So CA either had to take it out or save it. Even if not, the court reasoned:

      California Sex-Offender Registration Requirement Held “Not Punishment”
      Loaded on May 15, 2007 by John Dannenberg

      https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2007/may/15/california-sex-offender-registration-requirement-held-not-punishment/

      In re Alva (2004)33 Cal.4th 254

      http://www.lawlink.com/research/CaseLevel3/10846

      “Nor is it dispositive that the registration statute appears in the Penal Code, and that the obligation to register is imposed as part of a criminal proceeding.”

      I hope you have something new and powerful because it will take an earthquake for the high court to overrule itself again. I think that is part of the reason it banned banishment, because it was too punishment-like and the registry could collapse under its own weight.

      • steve

        What’s new and powerful is that study after study recidivism rates are very low. This entire scheme is principled on “frighting and high” which has been debunked.

        • AnotherAnon

          @ Steve Thanks for catching that. You have a valid point and it was my bad for not mentioning it. I should not have limited my comment to 290 being in the Penal Code. It is quite possible the “frightening and high” recidivism meme will melt away and result in more changes.

          Even the peak of recidivism (the high) is statistically not frightening, as the saying goes, “It’s really all about differentiating between those that we are afraid of and those we are simply mad at.”

          https://theappeal.org/high-schooler-faced-25-years-on-the-sex-offender-registry-for-engaging-in-oral-sex/

          So both “frightening” and “high” need corrected, each on their own terms, and this is the new launchpad. For example, the overall recidivism rate is degrees of magnitude lower than the memes calculated and preached, but even that percentage does not result in “frightening” recidivism in general. Depending on how determined, recidivism could be for technical violations, like possessing a lighter. Not very frightening even if high.

      • mike r

        Definitely not dispositive but very powerful probative value. No court has been presented with a case such as mine. The only ones even close have all ruled in our favor. Even though my case is in fed court I think after the CA Taylor decision the CA SC would look at the registry and the empirical evidence a little more critically especially if argued correctly. I guess we’ll find out what a court thinks any time now in my case. Judge Mendez in my case is tough but he is also a free thinker so we’ll see. If my punishment issues survive the MTD that a magistrate already recommended be granted, it will be a powerful statement for my case.

  27. Nondescript

    Governor Brown recently signed AB 1810. It may be of interest to our community.

    [This bill would establish a procedure of diversion for defendants with mental disorders through which the court would be authorized to grant pretrial diversion, for a period no longer than 2 years, to a defendant suffering from a mental disorder, on an accusatory pleading alleging the commission of a misdemeanor or felony offense, in order to allow the defendant to undergo mental health treatment ( input or output setting)]

    [Judges must dismiss charges against suspects who successfully complete the programs with the record filed with the DOJ indicating the arrest deemed never to have occurred]

    Mental disorder is any psychological impairment listed in the DSM including depression and anxiety.

    If anyone is charged with failure to register because of depression/memory problems and threatened with jail or prison time, this would be worth looking into.

    Hard to believe so many people are on a California registry, some for decades when new arrestees now get to go see a psychiatrist in leu of having a criminal record.

    • singled out again

      I noticed that another article, maybe from a day later, said that registrants will be excluded from this benefit.

    • Tim Moore

      “Don’t throw the pa-ast away
      You might need it some rainy day
      Dreams can come true again
      When everything old is new again”

      Way back in ought ought, I was offered a deal. I see a psychiatrist, I receive a favorable probation report, the underlying misbehavior could be mitigated by treating the depression and avoiding self medication. In exchange I earned a suspended sentence if I could complete the treatment and the probation successfully. In ten years my lawyer promised a good chance at announcement. Of course, I would be on the registry for life, but what was that, a name and address in the police database, a non specifically located dot on an internet map, with no way to put a face onto that dot, without some defining reason to know. It was clear sailing to a more normal, but wiser life. Then the magic carpet vanished from under me. No relief now, because the child was too young, sorry for the late notice, but hope you’re enjoying your membership in Wonderland. Did we mention it is all to save the children? Had I known I was falling through the looking glass, what could I have done? The world of laws seemed at first to be shrinking, then they grew and I shrunk. And basically keep on growing with a few dips now and then. I am a long way from where I once was, and my time now is a long 20 years of probation. Others have dealt with even longer terms in la la land, and we must all feel like strangers in strange land. Citizens from some long forgotten planet. It’s not really like being normal again, but we have a travel matrix to check if we leave the country and 50 state brochure to make sure when We visit a relative We don’t set off a trap door for a lengthy stay in the hoozegow. We have a long before we even get back to the place we were before.

      • Tim Moore

        Correction: for those a little confused at “my lawyer promised a good chance at announcement.” Well I was announced alright on the www. I wrote “expungement ” instead of “announcement,” and changed it once, but damn auto correct fooled me twice, shame on me. Google doesn’t seem want to accept expungement as a word and as a valid concept either come to think of it, seeing how they keep all your rap sheet forever and ever.

  28. Worried in Wisconsin

    I made contact with the registration specialist here in SE Wisconsin. She reached out to her contact with the US Marshal service about the passport issue (I renewed early to get a marked passport to put a visa in, but they sent an unmarked passport.)

    Here’s the reply from the US Marshal agent I received through the registration specialist:

    “I just got word on your guy that he is fine. The process to identify and mark all passports is going to be a slow process. Unless he is notified that he needs to get a new passport with the identifier, he is fine to utilize what he has. They are currently prioritizing the cases and doing those first. Hopefully this answers his question.”

    In other words, my new (unmarked) passport is valid, for now. Great. My guess is that what makes someone a priority is when they actually make use of their passport and travel abroad, so I will probably be good for one trip out of the country, and then I’ll have my new passport revoked after I return. And then I’ll have to apply for a duplicate visa. Oy.

    You’d think that sending ones passport in for renewal would get one prioritized, but apparently not.

    • TS

      @Worried in WI

      Thanks for that tidbit of info. Great info to know about IML passport priorities. Would you post that over in the IML passport thread for topic keeping if you don’t mind please?

      As for being proactive when it comes to USG (or any gov’t for that matter), forget it unless it is them receiving money which they are going to get anyway. There are no points for helping yourself or them in doing their job. If you have to spend twice the money to get what you were going to get anyway, they see it as a win possibly in sticking it to you and your bank acct.

  29. David Kennerly

    “Biblical Scholars Find Evidence Church Covered Up For 3 Wise Men Who Molested Baby Jesus” https://www.theonion.com/biblical-scholars-find-evidence-church-covered-up-for-3-1828360686

    • C

      They also covered up for Mohammed regarding his 7-year-old bride, Aisha. Of course, The Onion would never mention that lest they offend Muslims. Christians, are always a safe Target, as The Onion frequently demonstrates.

  30. Hysteria

    To any Santa Clara county offenders that have to attend counseling, be very careful and investigate the recommended person 1st. I was sent to a therapist that ended up being Christian based and was treated just like the judicial system treated me, as a terrible person. I found out later that he uses that approach to show “significant progress” for the offender and stay on county’s list. I went to another therapist that would only take cash and verbally abused the participants; insulting them and making light of their offenses. He worked with another therapist that had been suspended by the state (I looked up case) and continually made promises, like “I have friends that can get you off the list and to whatever country you want to go”. Really?
    So realize that the people that are “helping” are really just using a system to line their pockets.

  31. David Kennerly's Government-Driven Life

    “Protest against pedophiles in sci-fi held outside Worldcon” This appears to be a Qanon-inspired/Pro Trump group of protesters. Complete with bullhorns and counter-protesters. It’s not just pizza anymore, apparently. Let’s see how far this goes and how many configurations it assumes.

    https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/protest-against-pedophiles-in-sci-fi-held-outside-worldcon/1381192689

    • C

      Oh, the irony…

      +1 for your hash tags.

    • Tim Moore

      Oh brave new world that has such people in it. Pass me the soma, I need a vacation.

      • CR

        Ah yes. “A gramme is better than a damn.” “All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects.”

    • David Kennerly

      To add to the irony of the situation, you might want to watch “The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things” which is the film which starred Asia Argento along with her accuser as well as the Sprouse twins. Let’s just say that it was a pretty daring film. It probably wouldn’t be made today.

  32. Steveo

    Per the Asia Argento sex assault, I think it goes to show that yet again, anyone who is really screaming the loudest about sexual predators is either a victim of it looking for revenge, a perpetrator of it looking for some kind of absolution, or sometimes they are both.

    • jw

      I don’t wish the registry on anybody, but I’ll bet money Asia will not face any risk of being placed on it.

      • Hysteria

        1. She has Italian citizenship, so she doesn’t care.
        2. She is wealthy, so she doesn’t care.
        3. She has powerful, influencal friends, so she……well, you get the idea.

        • jw

          It will be interesting to see if the general public condemns her actions to the degree that they’d agree she should be on a lifetime registry to “protect the public”. How many of us are on the registry for crimes far less sexual than hers? The general public assumes those on the registry committed crimes that are the “worst of the worst”.

        • TS

          Rose McGowan, a #metoo participant, said the public should go easy on her now that this is news cycle. Rose was rebuked of course.

      • steve @jw

        I read that the Italian version of X-Factor which she is on is considering dumping her.

  33. Davidh

    Anyone know anything about the Real ID? As far as I can tell you dont need it unless you want to travel by plane or other public means. Other than that what would one be giving up? Is the ID going to be marked in any way or registrants?

    • Jason

      I went to get a CA DL this morning and was automatically give the Real ID. I was in and out of the DMV in 20 mins. No mention of RC.

      • Lake County

        The Real ID has no negative effects on CA registrants. It’s just a federally mandated ID that was enacted after 9/11. It has just taken this many years to get the state’s to cooperate. CA being the largest, will be the last to fully comply.

      • Lake County

        Jason, did you need your birth certificate to get the Real ID. Do they still offer the regular non-Real ID’s? What documents did you bring with you?

        • Jason

          I went with my SSN card, Passport (unmarked), and insurance card. I went in for a DL, the lady at the counter didn’t give me an option she just marked it as Real ID, as I paid for the license I asked if it was a Real ID and she said yes.

      • David

        @ Jason: That’s great. I got my Real ID shortly after they became available and I had to bring several different documents for verification. And @Davidh: No, there is no marking indicating being a Registrant.

  34. Lake County

    California Governor Grants Pardons
    I can’t find any details on who he pardoned, except for the 3 immigrants he pardoned to try and keep Trump from deporting them. I will bet a dozen donuts that no one that has to register will have received a pardon, as always.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2018-08-17/california-governor-grants-pardons-to-3-facing-deportation

    • Tim Moore

      I am trying to find out if Bayard Rustin, organizer for Martin Luther King, was still a registered sex offender when Jerry Brown had his first term and Bayard was alive. Being his charge was in California, he was probably on the list until he died in 1987. Imagine if our governor had the self reflection to realize that he could have taken credit for pardoning a registrant who would later go on to receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What registrant now is he denying releif, that may some day be honored for his or her contributions to humanity and not eternally vilified for their conviction?

  35. Lake County

    Another good idea for reform turns bad after changes.

    ACLU Turns Against California Bail Reform Bill (SB10) It Helped Craft:
    https://reason.com/blog/2018/08/20/aclu-turns-against-california-bail-refor

  36. AnotherAnon

    US inmates stage nationwide prison labor strike over ‘modern slavery’
    Organisers say prisoners across the country are expected to refuse to work, hold sit-ins and even stage hunger strikes

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/20/prison-labor-protest-america-jailhouse-lawyers-speak

    Also served as a reminder of the Jailhouse Lawyers Handbook.

  37. TS

    Another situation of things circling back around:

    What Happens to #MeToo When a Feminist Is the Accused?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/13/nyregion/sexual-harassment-nyu-female-professor.html

    • David

      @ TS: What happens is she pays off her victim and gets away with it. Now, what if it were a 37 year old woman with a 17 year old girl? Or a 37 y.o. male with a 17 y.o. boy? Or a 37 y.o. male with a 17 y.o. girl? Then everyone would be grabbing their torches and pitchforks. But with evidence galore, will she be charged?? (Anyone in a betting mood?)

      • TS

        @David

        That may be. I was surprised by the number of of her colleagues who stuck up for her and were not chastised for it all things considered in the movement. Should they not be ready to burn her at the stake regardless because of the allegations? Should the supporters also be in hot water for their hypocritical support? Oh wait, she is a female feminist and those are her female feminist colleagues who will stand by her hypocritically regardless, but will turn on a moment’s notice if a male did what she did.

  38. David Kennerly's Government-Driven Life

    Leading the effort to reinstate sex offender residency restrictions in New York are @PMSchoolsSupe @MikeHynes5 & #NYSAssembly Member Dean Murray as well as parents who claim that their 10yo son can’t ride his bike because Registrants exist.”
    “Lawmaker pushes bill to limit sex offender housing”
    /// http://longisland.news12.com/story/38922887/lawmaker-pushes-bill-to-limit-sex-offender-housing

  39. David Kennerly is Frightening and High

    “Florida man sentenced for traveling to Dominican Republic for child sex”

    I get these press releases from ICE and am struck by how few such instances they have reported. They prosecute far more people for CP. https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/florida-man-sentenced-traveling-dominican-republic-child-sex

    • E

      This was a completely local case in the DR. ICE didn’t help them find this guy. He was on no list. He was not an RSO required to give 21 days notice. He is a sexual offender who has now been caught and likely won’t reoffend, considering the long sentence. Consider: most countries would have prosecuted this and he’d be in a DR prison. But no… I’ll bet ICE told them what he’d get here (17 plus 30) compared to what he’d get there (speculating much less time) and the DR said, good riddance. In any event, this had exactly ZERO to do with ICE until AFTER he offended. Nice job NOT STOPPING this man before he offended. Now stop harassing those of us who won’t ever reoffend.

  40. Hysteria

    I have counted 12 stories of People committing suicide due to C.P. charges. Youngest is 15yrs. One was proven innocent, but their life had already been ruined.

  41. Hysteria

    I occasionally google articles that relate to the nightmare I am living. It is a dark place that I try to understand.
    I am amazed at how many articles there are on Re – offenders. It brings a couple of items into stark reality.
    1. There are definitely persons out there that have serious problems and need to be placed in a secure environment.
    2. There are persons that use this small segment of the population to paint ( with a very broad stroke ), an entire population as dangerous and likely to repeat their offense or do even worse.
    Unfortunately these stories are the ones that get front page treatment. I read them and I hate these offenders for making our lives so challenging. People see us as one of these truly F’ed up morons even though we are one time offenders.
    Is a person that drinks too much once an alcoholic? NO! So why is a person that commits one offense a habitual offender. The offense I committed can never be undone, but that doesn’t mean I will continue to offend. I wish politicians would stop using me for target practice, ’cause the 1st bullet killed me.

  42. Hysteria

    If you think we are getting any relief from courts or Government in the near future, read this,
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/01/22/ice-detains-a-polish-doctor-and-green-card-holder-who-has-lived-in-the-u-s-for-nearly-40-years/
    The current D.O.J. are NAZIs

  43. Chris F

    From Florida Action Committee web site:

    https://floridaactioncommittee.org/countdown-to-gundy/

    I don’t understand why this is being looked at as a major case to impact those on the registry retro-actively.

    Here is the quote from the article:

    *****
    Herman Gundy and anyone else whose offenses took place pre-SORNA but were later charged with violating a registration requirement under SORNA, might be exonerated. So that’s a good potential win.
    *****

    and here is my comment:

    I hate to burst everyone’s bubble, but I don’t see this case affecting anyone other than possibly providing some good quotes from Justice’s for future cases.

    SORNA as enacted by the federal government is just a “suggestion” to the states. The states enact the actual laws and requirements to be on each state’s registry list. As far as I know, most state’s didn’t delegate any authority illegally and declared the retroactive application in their original laws. Therefore, any win in Gundy just takes a stab at the US Legislation miss-step but doesn’t have any weight on State’s laws.

    Please correct me if I am wrong. I hope we can at least get some good SCOTUS quotes like we got from Packingham out of this and maybe some hints that “frightening and high” is a sham, but I don’t see anything more.

    • TS

      @Chris F

      “Therefore, any win in Gundy just takes a stab at the US Legislation misstep but doesn’t have any weight on State’s laws.”

      It is the misstep that has been discussed here previously as the big win. Delegating to the AG is not congruent with the process. While the states do have the right to implement all, some, or none of SORNA, the hope here is the fallout impacts those states who have implemented all or some of SORNA. The discussion was lively earlier on this point among forum participants with only anxiously waiting people to see the case argued in the end.

  44. TXSO4LIFE

    Agree with Chris…we can only hope that this forth coming opinion may render a few positive dicta and /or quotes from the Justice penning the opinion that may help our cause. Perhaps some good quotes and dicta regarding the illegal retroactive provision of the law. Fingers cross!

  45. David

    Social media companies exclude Millions

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-tech/trump-slams-social-media-firms-as-silencing-millions-idUSKCN1L917W

    No sh#t?? Facebook would never do that! 😡

  46. TS

    Illinois appeals court finds sex offender registration requirement too harsh

    “The court found that Illinois’ Sex Offender Registration Act and related restrictions, as applied to Devin M. Kochevar, violated both the Eighth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and the proportionate penalties clause of the Illinois Constitution.” (https://narsol.org/2018/08/illinois-appeals-court-finds-sex-offender-registration-requirement-too-harsh/)

    Decision is here:

    http://www.illinoiscourts.gov/Opinions/AppellateCourt/2018/3rdDistrict/3140660.pdf

    • AnotherAnon

      Outstanding opinion.

      Here is the case cited in that case:

      http://www.illinoiscourts.gov/OPINIONS/AppellateCourt/2018/3rdDistrict/3150243.pdf

      Legislatures kept adding new laws until the registries started collapsing under their own weight. Will the Illinois supreme court agree? Hope so. I think this may be why the Calif. Supremes backed off some restrictions, like residency and the banned locations. Come to think of it, didn’t the Alaska Supreme court find the same registry that SCOTUS found constitutional, unconstitutional under the state constitution?

    • mike r

      This is so beautiful.
      We vacate his requirement to register as a sex offender and
      to comply with SORA (730 ILCS 150/1 et seq. (West 2016)), the Notification Law (730 ILCS
      152/101 et seq. (West 2016)), section 11-9.3 of the Criminal Code of 2012 (720 ILCS 5/11-9.3
      (West 2016)), section 5-5-3(o) of the Unified Code of Corrections (730 ILCS 5/5-5-3(o) (West
      2016)), and section 21-101 of the Code of Civil Procedure (735 ILCS 5/21-101 (West 2016)).

      As-applied these laws do not stand a chance unless you are a repeat or extremely high risk individual and have been giving a hearing to determine such a status…..Cannot wait to see what the judge rules in my case….I have not even read the entire case yet but apparently they address the Smith factors appropriately. Confirmed by an appellant court, this is so great…So now we are having a split in the appellant courts so it is only a matter of time until it gets to SCOTUS…

      • E @ mike r

        It’s an IL state appeals court, not a federal court in IL. How does that affect how it applies to you, Mike?

        • mike r

          Well it states that it is a circuit court so I assumed it is a federal court appeal. I may be wrong and apparently I should know this but it appears to me to be fed. I have not followed the case to closely as I have been very busy so if this is a state court decision please let me know. Anyways, whether it is state or fed I can still use some of the citations and it bodes well for me in that the more courts that rule this way the better it is for me. This type of rational is starting to take hold and every case that gets decided like this makes it easier for future decisions striking these laws down.

        • mike r

          Well apparently it is a state court but my statement still holds true. I do not know why they call it a circuit court because circuit courts I always thought were fed.

        • Ts

          As long as it is published for precedent, it is usable for use by anyone who cites it. I have seen published decisions that are not usable for precedent, but this one is, even if it is only a state level court system. Of course, the higher you go, the more power the decisions have.

        • E

          Thanks TS: Does the court itself decide whether it’s published for precedent? I was unaware of that concept/term…

        • TS

          @E

          I don’t know the decision line of publish for precedent and not or why, but I believe there was a recent IL case (recent is a relative term) that was published and marked to not be used for precedent. I have seen military appellate cases which are marked as not for precedent.

        • AnotherAnon

          I’m going to beg to differ a bit. My understanding is that precedent is binding law in a jurisdiction unless or until it is overruled and it is not longer law. A decision from another jurisdiction can be suggestive and the court can take judicial notice of it, but I don’t think it is precedent in the sense of being good law in any binding sense. SCOTUS decisions are precedent all over the country, while the various circuit court opinions (like the 9th) are binding in their jurisdictions (states) and so on down the line. A Calif. Supreme court decision is biding on California, etc. That is my two cents of understanding anyway.

        • TS

          For all to read about legal precedent which can be binding, persuasive, etc:

          prec·e·dent
          noun
          ˈpresəd(ə)nt/Submit
          1. an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.

          Legal precedent

          https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_precedent

          @AnotherAnon

          We’re in agreement from different angles.

          Yes, this is an IL case
          and binding there only at the moment unless appealed above the ILSC (which the ILSC would be the next step as I understand it) which could in theory possibly expand it’s reach. However, the precedent for citing it in other cases is there at that level at least for IL (binding) and other state Appeals courts as well as lower courts (persuasive or case law).

          You can also show persuasive or case law precedent by citing all the registrant cases to date that are favorable, regardless of level they stopped at, e.g. state SC, state Appeals court, Fed District Court, etc upward, to show the harm inflicted on others and how it’s seen legally. The higher the court, the more credibility behind it.

          With @Mike r possibly noting this within his case, it can help at least by being seen if similarly applicable to his case.

      • AnotherAnon

        TS, we do have some agreement, but as the opinion points out, the IL Supreme Court may not agree with the appellate court and it is not precedent in IL unless the state supreme court does agree (instead overruling this opinion).

        C. Application of the Tetter Analysis to Kochevar’s Facts
        ¶ 55
        Of course, the major obstacle to Kochevar’s requested relief is the unwavering position of
        our supreme court that the statutes in question do not constitute punishment. The State has cited and discussed the supreme court’s decisions and the conforming decisions of all of the appellate districts in great detail, but its recitation was unnecessary — we are well aware of the line of cases beginning with People v. Adams, 144 Ill. 2d 381, 387-89 (1991), in which the court held that the restrictions of SORA are not punishment but rather are merely collateral consequences of conviction for covered sexual offenses, through People v. Malchow , 193 Ill. 2d 413 (2000), in which the court reaffirmed the sex offender laws are not punishment, and including its recent decision in People v. Pepitone, 2018 IL 122034, ¶
        18, in which it found the statute that 21 “completely bars sex offenders who have targeted children [6] from public parks” is facially constitutional. See also 720 ILCS 5/11-9.4-1(b) (West 2016).

        So I’m trying to point out that all the precedent is *against* this ruling of the appeals court. Hopefully, the IL Supremes will reconsider. So at this point, it may be possible to plagiarize the opinion where relevant rather than rely on it. Once the state supreme court agrees, then that will carry more weight. Has that happened? I expect Janice to jump in at any time with her warning about non-lawyers (and bad lawyers). That would include me as a non-lawyer.

        • TS

          @AnotherAnon

          I would expect it to be binding for the gentleman in the case and nothing more which is where I was trying to go with it (and did not explain clearly since after reading the opinions last week – my bad and apologies), but never know in that goofy state with the way things go regarding the ILSC.

        • AnotherAnon

          TS, point taken. Keep up the good fight and remember The Man in the High Castle.

        • TS

          @AnotherAnon

          With you 100%, keep up the good fight and remember The Man in the High Castle

  47. E

    Oh boy… facial recognition… check the last line: “integrating with TSA!” That’s much worse than just for CBP (international flights). https://www.nextgov.com/emerging-tech/2018/08/dc-airport-first-nation-catch-suspected-imposter-using-facial-biometrics/150777/

Leave a Reply

We welcome a lively discussion with all view points - keeping in mind...  
  • Your submission will be reviewed by one of our volunteer moderators. Moderating decisions may be subjective.
  • Please keep the tone of your comment civil and courteous. This is a public forum.
  • Please stay on topic - both in terms of the organization in general and this post in particular.
  • Please refrain from general political statements in (dis)favor of one of the major parties or their representatives.
  • Please take personal conversations off this forum.
  • We cannot connect participants privately - feel free to leave your contact info here. You may want to create a new / free, readily available email address.
  • Please refrain from copying and pasting repetitive and lengthy amounts of text.
  • Please do not post in all Caps.
  • If you wish to link to a serious and relevant media article, legitimate advocacy group or other pertinent web site / document, please provide the full link. No abbreviated / obfuscated links.
  • We suggest to compose lengthy comments in a desktop text editor and copy and paste them into the comment form
  • We will not publish any posts containing any names not mentioned in the original article.
  • Please choose a user name that does not contain links to other web sites
  • Please send any input regarding moderation or other website issues to moderator [at] all4consolaws [dot] org
ACSOL, including but not limited to its board members and agents, does not provide legal advice on this website.  In addition, ACSOL warns that those who provide comments on this website may or may not be legal professionals on whose advice one can reasonably rely.  
 

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Please answer this question to prove that you are not a robot *