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2020 ACSOL Conference – Postponed to Oct 10-11

National

MI: State of Michigan set to pay $80M to settle sex abuse suit with former juvenile offenders

[detroitnews.com – 2/27/20]

The Michigan Department of Corrections will pay $80 million to settle a lawsuit with former juvenile offenders who claimed they were sexually abused in Michigan prisons between October 2010 and February 2020, state officials said Thursday.

Pending final approval April 9, the state will pay $25 million immediately, $15 million by October, $25 million by October 2021 and $15 million by October 2022.

Buy PhotoMichigan officials have settled a sexual abuse lawsuit filed by former juvenile offenders for $80 million. (Photo: Daniel Mears, The Detroit News)

State corrections officials and Attorney General Dana Nessel’s office announced the settlement with the individuals in a press release after Washtenaw County Judge Carol Kuhnke signed Thursday an order of preliminary approval.

The settlement would be the largest since the department reached a $100 million resolution in a 1996 case, Neal v. Michigan Department of Corrections, in which female prisoners alleged a pattern of sexual misconduct and harassment related to the supervision of female prisoners by male officers.

The department agreed to a $100 million settlement in the Neal case in 2009, and distributed the payments to plaintiffs between 2010 and 2015.

Read the full article

 

Join the discussion

  1. Lovewillprevail

    Government action and inaction is all about protecting the children…not…

  2. TnT

    Michigan should have to pay everyone they violated (ex post facto) for years & years by retroactive punishment with out a judge or jury applying the registry too thousands of citizens after a sentence , All done with the stroke of a politicians pen. I hope they get what they got coming to them !

  3. Bobby S.

    @R33 and @TnT,

    That would actually be nice, becaue in a way it is a wrongful conviction, since a Judge never sentenced most of us to the registry. and at $50,000 a year per person, the State would hopefully learn a valuable lesson.

    Look at all the money they have to pay out for these wrongful murder convictions, so just imagine if they had to compensate us as well. 28×50,000= 1.4 million for me I could live with that, but we will never be compensated, they will just say something like just be thankful your off the registry now and move on.

    There is 42 USC 1982, and the prosecutors have already admitted they would lose hands down.

    • R33

      @bobbys you know that works for me I’m fine with that I havnt been on the list as long as some. So I can see what your saying

    • chris

      For all u michiganders out there. I just received the best possible news in the whole world. Went to register today and received confirmation that those convicted before june 2011 will no longer have to register. She said that notices will b sent out shortly by the michigan state police. Just be patient.

      • R33

        @Chris really what all did they say

      • joe

        Thanks, chris, that is awesome news, its hard to believe this is real.

        • Chris

          Joe. Yes ur right. I literally almost started crying when the secretary told me that. She said she just received email today. I never wait till the last day of month to register but glad i did this time. I know alot of people arent going to believe me but u heard it here first. I checked the website and I’m still in registry but I’m sure it will take a few weeks or maybe a month before people start getting removed. Man I still cant believe it myself.

      • Josh

        @Chris….Did you still have to verify and register this last time? Did they require your $50 payment? Just curious to know if you had to go through the normal process?

        • chris

          Josh s. no dont have to verify anymore or pay the $50. I hadn’t paid the $50 for last 3 yrs It’s over. Notifications will be coming

        • Josh

          @chris….did they take your ID/license and run you through LEIN? Did they come back to you with that information saying you don’t have to register anymore? I checked and the registry is still up online. Hard to believe they didn’t want their last $50 out of you….details would be greatly appreciated! You get any paperwork to CYA? My first verification of the year is supposed to be in March and I was going to wait for the order to be entered around the 13th before I checked in, just in case something HAD changed..

        • Deb

          Chris ,or Josh…Is this true.? You didn’t have to register?

        • chris

          Josh. Yes the registry is still up. I’m sure it’s going to take some time for them to get around to pulling people off of it. I’m still on there and expect to be cuz thats the last thing they’re gonna drag their feet on. I could care less about still being on there long as I dont have to report and register anymore also it wasnt 50 that I owed. I owed 150 and she said I didnt have to pay any of it ok I wont then.

      • joe

        I believe its the offence date not the conviction date before june 2011. Which is even better.

      • G4Change

        @Chris: this is awesome news. Please keep us updated.

      • Disgusted in Michigan

        @chris. Understand that at this time it’s NOT that you don’t have to register any more. Its that the MSP has currently suspended registration for anyone convicted prior to April 11 (or 12) 2011. So until the legislature rewrites the laws and you get a letter from the MSP that your requirement to register is terminated it would be wise to attempt to verify on your next report month. I too have received the email from the ACLU explaining the memo and it’s clear that the MSP has made it clear that you should still report until further notice so they can note that they turned you away. Protect yourself on this. Its not over yet but it’s a good start. I have to report this month but instead of going to me local sheriff record office, I’m going to a state police post and until something changesI will attempt to verify in June unless I receive something before then from the MSP that my registration is terminated. I’m covering my ass on this and I urge everyone else to do the same, but I believe in a couple months or so this will be over for a lot of us.

  4. TnT

    Everyone knows the registry is punitive and by applying it retroactively is punitive damage, they only got away with applying it by saying it was civil , LMAO …. We all know that’s another B.S lie & with a federal judge agreeing it is punitive as well as the states top law enforcement officer agreeing , I do not know why lawyers are not lining up to pound this state hard, Michigan has gotten away with this unjust abuse of power being applied to thousands of citizens retroactively in a lot of cases like ours, years after a sentence with out a judge or jury ever even knowing we were put on this registry, this is in most cases years after we have served our sentence we were given . I received a 1 to 3 year sentence in 1992 when I was 20 … S.O.B …. there wasn’t even a list , NO REGISTRY WHEN I WAS SENTENCED ! I am 48 and was forced on this registry in 95 by rogue politicians & amendments that are punitive & retroactive to thousands of people who have served their sentence , I myself have spent 25 years on a registry that a judge doesn’t even know I was placed on , this is how dirty our state is, I am not alone , I hope they get their asses smoked for this B.S Michigan you deserve to PAY everyone you violated !

    • Josh

      @TnT, BobbyS, R33 etc….I agree with y’all but the 83’s have all been squashed since our Does II class action was certified back in September or October of 2018. They were all rolled into or transferred to Cleland’s Eastern district court then dismissed….there is some rule prohibiting private suits while part of a class action. If the matter of the class action is resolved through this upcoming order in mid March then hopefully there would be enough people willing to sue the shit out of the state of Michigan and make the state defend thousands of lawsuits…..sounds like a pipe dream but still a fun notion to entertain..also wouldn’t hurt to have legal recourse if the state doesn’t cooperate or starts playing games in the next 2 months

      • TnT

        @Josh …. Yes I feel the same as you over 27 years of suffering after a 1 year conviction in 1992 is pretty sick thought ……That a politician sent us a life sentence via us postal service years after a conviction, They should be sued and have to pay everyone they added to this list after their conviction knowing damn well its as punitive as it comes next too prison or death … They need to be held responsible for disabling thousands of citizens for years and years. It is a psychological nightmare to live this way when a judge or jury has never even knows the state forced us on here after a conviction with no due process . This is abuse of power at its highest level .

        • Will Allen

          Congratulations to everyone getting released from the illegal Registries!

          You are right that it is beyond outrageous that these criminal regimes thought it was okay to retroactively Register people after they had been sentenced. I think the criminal legislators and anyone else who thinks that is okay should be severely punished today. We should never allow such “people” to live in peace or without consequences.

          But just keep in mind that even if a person is convicted today, it is not acceptable to Register the person or have Registries at all.

          Registries are for weak idiots.

  5. Anonymous

    Who got convicted for sexual abuse of a child? Which government workers are now registered?

  6. TnT

    @ Anonymous….Exactly !!! NONE !! … they got Money ! Ours ! …. They are dirty !

    • Anonymous

      @TnT. . They didn’t have high paying jobs or money necessarily. They were protected by their superiors and by the politicians who didn’t want the prosecutions. The civil penalty they had to succumb to and is much more palatable to the system.

  7. Bobby S.

    I also have to go into register, in the next couple of days. I always go in at the begining of the month, to get it over with I will let everyone know what the secretary /clerk tells me. I hope I get the same news that Chris received. I guess I will see on Monday or Tuesday.

    • Chris

      Bobby s. Yes go in asap and register you’ll see. Yes of course I gave the secretary my i.d I dont th iij no she ran me thru lein she didnt make it that far. She typed my info in and asked me if my conviction date was 1993. I said yes she said she received email stating anyone whose conviction date was before Jun 2011 didnt have register anymore. Now I may be wrong on the june 2011 date as cutoff I dont know if she said conviction or offense date bcuz I really wasnt concerned about that bcuz my offense conviction date was 92 93 so I wasnt caring about the date. I already knew I was good on that. She also said that I wasnt required to pay the 50 that I owed for the last 3 yrs. She showed me email but wouldnt give me a copy of it bcuz it’s for employees only. She gave me msp phone number to call and said notifications would be forthcoming. She then put notes in the computer that I attempted to register on that date and she quoted the memo as to my registry duties have ceased. You all will see for yourselves but I’m celebrating tonight.

      • AJ

        @Chris, or any MI RC:
        “She showed me email but wouldnt give me a copy of it bcuz it’s for employees only.”
        —–
        This email should be available under MI’s Sunshine/Open Records/FOIA laws. It sure would be worthwhile having. If you recall ANY details about the email (sent date, author, recipient email address, etc.), it would make a FOIA request that much easier (and cheaper).

        Never ever ever trust the pencil-necked geeks who work in Government with their word. They live and die by paperwork.

        • TS

          To add what @AJ wrote, LE can lie through their teeth without repercussion and with SCOTUS sanctioning. So, get a copy of the doc in your hands ASAP and post for all to see because until then, they can show you what they want all they want only to take it back as a premature move entrapping many.

        • Dave

          Chris

          I sure hope they are not making a mistake then say…. “We never said that.”

          Katie with Michigan’s Citizens for Justice has her doubts about this. She usually knows about these kinds of things. You might want to write her and tell her what’s up.

          http://micitizensforjustice.com/

    • Josh

      @Michigan…I hope to God your right @Chris! That’s will be very nice to not to have to deal with that aspect of the over all humiliation of being a registrant. I’ve made over 100 trips to the local cop shop in 25 years…..the worry and angst leading up to every visit that the cops would find something technical to trip us up on won’t be missed. I won’t be truly happy until that personal page comes off the website though….thanks @Chris and thanks in advance @Bobbys

      • Blake

        My verification month was April awesome I wont have to fo in. My offense date was in 2005 and a juvenile. Not even on the public. So I should be off as well to right?

      • chris

        Dave. Oh well. Lol. I guess I’ll find out. I cant force them to give me an email and force them to register me. Lmao.

  8. Hopeful Tom

    Wow I can’t believe it may actually be over. Also for what’s it’s worth. I’m teir 3, and was 13 at the time, charged at 14 as an adult in 98. For whatever reason, I have been off of Michigan’s registry list online for last month or two. I keep searching, I’m not on it. Still registered last month and took my money tho, also said I should be coming off. I just don’t know why or how I be not on state site anymore. I’m on old copycat sites still, with old info that not been updated in yrs. While thing is strange.

    Rly want to celebrate, when you think we will get a notice?

    • Moo

      @hopeful tom, I’m sort of in the same boat as you. Was a minor at the time and got the adult sentence and found out some time ago I wasn’t on the public list anymore as well. They may have looked back at dates and realized you were a minor at the time and placed you in the non-public list. Still same hoops to jump through, just not online. Ive also ran into the copycat sites with outdated info and have inquired as to what the options are for removal from them with a couple different attorneys as well as an email into the interns at the ACLU but still waiting to hear. If you can take it a step further and have a background check ran, when I was hired at my job I was honest with them about my record and they hired me but when they ran a background check nothing came up regarding a csc. I also asked a couple of attorneys shortly after what was going on and when they looked they couldn’t find it either so it may in fact be a sealed file or could potentially be because of your age at the time?

    • G4Change

      It’s crazy how a 14 y/o is a child when it comes to consenting yet is an adult when it comes to making a mistake. What a crock of crap! This has to be the only country that does this.

  9. TnT

    @ Chris Great News ! Hard too Belive but I do belive you it just seems so unreal ! Again thanks for the updates ! 🙂 Maybe have a reason too live !

    • Chris

      Aj just wait and see. I’ve given all of u the info I’ve got and u can just wait and see for yourselves.

      • chris

        Like I said u all will either b notified or when u go register u can find out for yourselves. Stay compliant go register. If they have entrapped me then so be it. I cant force them to make me register. Lmao. This is why I dont post comments on here and should not have this time.

        • Noneofthis

          Has anyone been in to verify in the month of February and have them tell you they cannot verify you because they cannot touch pre 2011 registrants

  10. New Person

    On a tangent of suing a state, registrants, and prison, I wonder if Janice and ACSOL will file a suit against California. Recently, we know of two deaths in CA prisons and person who confessed to doing it knew about their status. There are probably more cases to be had. If what happened in Michigan happened, then it’s probable that it can happen in any other state.

    • David

      Agreed. It would be very nice if we could beat down California’s Registry using MI arguments.

    • David

      Agreed. It would be very nice if we could beat down California’s Registry using MI’s legal arguments.

  11. mike r

    Yeah New, how about suing to make them use real risk assessments like the bill was supposed to be. It is definitely unconstitutional to project a level of dangerousness without any assessments. Guess I/we will find out for myself when I get the time to file in state court next. And what about all the naysayers that said it could not be done, had to be increments and changing public opinion and all that. No it takes the courts and determined skillful attorneys willing to go the mile.

  12. Bobby S.

    @ALL MICHIGANDERS,

    I went in early today, to register and everything went according to plan/normal the clerk took my ID went to the computer for about 5 minutes,she put my information in, and brought my ID back to me.

    She made me my copy and i signed it, she says your all set so i said you don’t need my $50 bucks and she is like oh ya, so i gave it to her she wrote me a receipt for it. I did ask her if she received anything in writing or by email, that we did not have to register anymore and she said NO NOT YET, but we are aware of whats going on, so i just said ok i heard something different ,but after almost 28 years of this crap i will continue to play by the book, she said that is what i would do as well.

    So i am not saying that @Chris is lying, maybe he did get that news who really knows i didn’t so i got another 3 months until i register again and hopefully by then everything will be done and over with for the majority of us, lets see what happens on the 13th now.

  13. To RickO

    I registered today at the Sheriff’s department and they did not hear of any stop on the registry. I registered as usual no change for me. I didn’t pay my $50 I will wait until the end of the month. I’ve been on it since 1996.

    • chris

      Aclu has stated current stipulations for not having to register may be temporary due to the legislature rewriting the sora. Watch how fast they rewrite that bad boy now. Probably why they havent removed anyone from the website and wont until the new 1 is on the books and they actually decide who’s staying on and who’s coming off

    • Rodger

      I’m going tomorrow to take care of business talked with a friend of mine at the state police and he said yes anyone before 2011 still has to come in and show id but under the federal laws they can take any money form us and also they put in a note that you tried to regerster but your file is ceased. Now when the state makes there mind he said it can go two different ways either you are off if you were convicted as a minor or if you were supposed to do it for 25 years but he did say that they are looking at if you were convicted as a minor they want you off but he said don’t quote me on how the state will decide but letter will be sent out and he said I should recive mine in a week or so. Hope that helps all of you for now

  14. JD

    In case you all didnt notice. We have to register within the first fifteen days of the month. Chris said he went in on the 27th or 28th to register… Sounds fishy to me.

    • Josh

      @JD….that’s not true at all. Due to mass numbers all trying to verify quarterly in the same month, the state of Michigan changed the first verification month to correspond to each registrant’s birth month. They also changed it so that registrants had the whole month to verify. It’s been that way for several years now…mine is March, June, September, & December. @Chris is on the February, May, August, & November schedule…I also verified last December in the 2nd half of the month and I’m still here with no issues…

    • Chris

      Jd. U on the registry? Cuz registering 1st 15 days of the month sounds fishy to me. lol.

    • R33

      @jd what are you talking about I always go in toward the end of the month

      • MidnightMike

        I went in to the state police department today where I normally go to register. They took my ID. It was also my birth month so I had my fifty bucks ready. He notified me that they weren’t going to do my verification, said that it was no longer required at this time. They did not take my fifty bucks that I offered. He said something about the judges ruling, and that I should get something in the mail, some paperwork or to watch the news,,,, but as of now anyone with a register able offense prior to 2011,,, they were not doing registration verification on and they think we should be coming down from the web sight. I asked could I get something in writing that says I tried to register and he said he already made a note of it in my file. I also just listened to the one hour thing from acsol and they said there was a memo that went out or was going out to the state police that said for them to note in their file they tried to register and to “Turn away anyone with a registrable offense prior to 2011”.
        Dudes probably telling the truth. Although I can’t help the feeling it’s some kind of trap.

        • Teres

          Michigan sex offender registry is down and under construction.

        • Janice Bellucci

          @Midnight Mike and others – According to one of the lead attorneys in the Michigan case, law enforcement in Michigan currently are not registering people convicted prior to 2011. He made that statement during today’s conference call which was recorded and should be available soon on the NARSOL website. This case was discussed during the first of three hours.

      • Nick

        I’m not due to verify again until April but I was curious as to what was going on so this morning I called the Michigan State Police post on Telegrapgh in Taylor. I asked the officer if there had been any recent changes and he said that “while the law is under review” if your offence date is before Aoril 2011 then you do not have to report. My date was 1991 so I cam well past my original 25 year mark.

  15. Bobby S.

    @MidnightMike and @Teres, I just checked the registry and it is in deed up and running, @MidnightMike, I went in toy local police station, and they didn’t receive any notice or anything that verifies anything you or @Chris are saying, unless it’s different going into a State Police Station then a local Police Station, since State Police would get the info first, but again the Clerk where I live took my money and said she hasn’t received anything, written or by mail saying we no longer have to register, or that we will receive something in the mail soon. So not sure where or how your getting different information then. then the rest of us.

  16. P31

    @Bobby S. As of 10:20 PM on 3/2/20 the Mi state police registry is down. I have checked it multiple times, it’s down and says under construction.

  17. Bobby S.

    To ALL MICHIGAN REGISTRANTS

    I just checked my email and this was in my email box.

    Breaking News: Michigan State Police suspends registration for people whose sex offense occurred before April, 2011!
    Mar 2 at 10:22 PM
    PrintRaw message

    MCFJ 
    I received this email from Tim at the ACLU of Michigan today. I realize it doesn’t answer all the questions that you may have. I expect there will be a follow-up email in a day or two.
    Kathie

    AS OF LAST WEEK WE HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED THAT THE Michigan State Police (MSP) WILL NO LONGER REGISTER PEOPLE WHO’S CONVICTION PRE DATES APRIL 11, 2011[sic, I believe this should be April 12, Kathie]. I now have a copy of that memorandum (issued February 21,2020)  and we have been advised that some local law enforcement will follow this order some have as of yet to get the word.  And while it should be noted that local law enforcement may take the position that the MSP does not write laws so the local law enforcement can still enforce this law until it is rewritten.  It should be further noted that MSP has said this is not a removal from the SOR at this time it is only a suspension of people prior to April 11,2011 having to register.  We recommend that you still try to register and get something in writing from the agency that you came in and were told not to register.  It should also be noted that the MSP also talked about people who have warrants for technical violations, and or if law enforcement was in the process of getting warrants for someone for a technical violation unless that violation happen after April 11, 2011,  their position is that the prosecutor of the county w[h]ere the technical violation occurred should be contacted.  IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE MEMORANDUM DOES NOT ADDRESS THE TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS THAT THE COURT ORDERED COULD NOT APPLY TO ANYONE ON THE SOR. The memorandum has some errors in it and the ACLU is working to find out the details. 

    Respectfully Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist 

    • Lovewillprevail

      Was curious, the no register pre 2011, how does that effect one with a pre 2011 conviction from another state who relocates to Michigan?

    • Dave

      I got this email also in the middle of the night.

  18. R33

    So I wonder instead of us getting money for the lawsuit are we getting off that is my question. Cuz from what I understand no money can fix the ….. ya I forgot the legal term but the suffering I think. I maybe wrong?? the reason I know this is because of my mom she almost has her Dr in criminal justice

  19. Disgusted in Michigan

    Question for anyone who has attempted to register and was told your registration is currently suspended. When you look yourself up on the MSP SORA website, does it say anything about it? Is there a note saying you attempted to verify and was turned away? Just curious.

    • P31

      @Disgusted in michigan – I attempted to register and pay my 50 dollars this morning. I was told that anyone convicted before 2011 that they are not registering. They made a note in my file and told me to expect a letter in the mail. When I checked the website, it’s down

      • Disgusted in Michigan

        Ok thanks. Just wondering if anyone who has been turned away found anything on their page on the SORA site. I have to verify this month but I usually wait until later in the month to do it just because I can. I always make sure its not the last possible day so in case something happens I still have a couple days left to go again. So at this point I’m definitely waiting until well after the 13th to go and I’m thinking instead of going to my local sheriff department record office I will go to a state police post. I’m in Oakland County so I go to the record office behind the county jail. I’m pretty sure the law allows me to go to a local state police post instead. I’ll have to check. I just want to make sure I’m turned away because I’d rather not have to register and give them another 50 bucks. Has anyone tried registering at the records office behind the Oakland County jail and been turned away? Staff there has always been cool with me and I don’t want to give them any shit. Just want to get turned away.

      • Bobby S.

        @p31, Did you go to your local police station or a to the State Police?. I went yesterday to my local police station, which is like 100 yards down the street or less, but anyway they registered me and took my $50 dollars, and told me they have received anything written or by email saying we did not have to register, but they were aware if the ruling. The other thing I don’t understand is people keep saying the registry site is down, and under construction, but every time I check it’s up and running just fine. I even checked the MSP site and it’s up. So I’m confused, it’s up for some and down for others.

        • bill

          Hello all, I to was told I needed to register , the state police said to check sheriff department where I go, so I called them they said yes you do??? I am 1992???

    • MidnightMike

      @Discusted. I’m still on the web sight with no changes. No indication that I tried to register.
      @Lovewillprevail I’m not an attorney but I recall something in the AWA that’ said if your required to register in your state of conviction then you are required to register in the new state. That part of the AWA was to prevent SO’s from moving to another state just to avoid registration.
      It’s awesome that the state police are already taking some action. My offense was in 96 and my conviction was in 97 so I’m still under my original 25 years,,,, so ATM I’m a little skeptical, cautious and I worry about getting caught up. I guess the big picture is that things are changing.
      Tim at ACLU’s response is as usual. Sort of informed but out in left field. I honestly don’t think anyone has concrete answers at this point…. Not even the ACLU attorneys.
      I think the part that worries me most is if I travel to another state, especially once I’m removed from Michigan’s registry, if that’s what ultimately happens. I do however remember there being something in the FED law that said if we move/travel that registration in the state of conviction is what triggers fed registration. I’m no attorney, however if Michigan removes us,,, I think we are ok to travel, move, or whatever and not be required to register. Obviously more homework should be done before relying on that. Different states will likely have different opinions/laws so I will take that one state at a time and I’d recommend checking with any state we intend to travel to.
      Things are changing. That’s what’s important. Hope no one gets hemmed up in the process. Tread lightly and be careful, CYOA when possible is my plan. I was unable to get any sort of paperwork that said I tried to register, I will attempt to again, and likely again as the month goes on. I’m leery of March ending without something in writing that says I tried to register and I was turned away. Hopefully we see/hear more good news soon. Good luck everyone!!!!!

      • M C

        To clarify, you have it backwards, sort of, for federal AWA/SORNA. If you are subject to registration UNDER the AWA, you are required to register under it. States can have other rules. It gets a bit messy after that but basically if MI stops registration for people there is no way for or requirement to register under AWA. Once you are not required to register in the state there is no requirement (but the state can choose) to claw back registration unless you are still on probation or you commit another crime and the time period for AWA hasn’t yet expired. Even if off registration in MI, that doesn’t mean you don’t have a qualifying offense that may require registration in another state. In this case if you meet the registration requirements there you will be required to register there. If you trigger such registration you are back under AWA as well and that could affect your requirements to register elsewhere (even potentially MI again in the future) depending on those state laws and federally as well if the state will accept the registration. It’s a pretty convoluted mess of laws but it’s very easy to get recaptured for registration and back under AWA by traveling or moving.

        • MidnightMike

          I just called the state police sex offender info line. They checked my info and were able to give me the name of the officer that turned me away two days ago. She verified that the note was added to my file that I attempted to update and was turned away. She clarified the situation somewhat. She said that things were so up in the air right now that they had decided to suspend any actions on the registration for anyone pre 2011 until a final clarification on what was going to happen was given. She said rn they won’t even take new vehicle info.
          I guess it’s mostly all the confusion. Until there is a final determination,,,, any actions on the ex post facto class are suspended. I asked about federal registration/travel and I guess that’s also quite confusing at the moment since the purpose of the AWA was to have a uniform set of laws so the requirements will be nearly the same in all states. She said like if I was to tell her I was going to leave the state for a while that she could make a note in my file but the normal actions would not be taken. She said even if I called the new state that they may or may not require registration RN because of the ruling in Michigan. I sort of got the feeling that unless they make a new law that mirrors the Awa then having a system that’s the same/applicable nationwide is about to get complicated??? Idk. For sure this ruling seems to have thrown a wrench in the gearbox. I’ve been watching for bill activity from the legislature and still nothing. For me sight is still and has been working just fine.

        • TS

          @M C

          And what you say about registering in another state, if registration is done in MI, is the crux of the amicus brief ACSOL, et al, filed with NARSOL on that topic recently: https://narsol.org/2020/02/narsol-affiliates-join-in-amicus-brief/

  20. P31

    @Bobby S I went to the state police post. That’s where I always go, less hassle. As soon as I told her what I was there for, she asked when my conviction date was. I told her and she told me that they can’t register me or accept the 50 dollars. That I would receive something in the mail.

    • @Hopeful

      @P31, I am pre-2011 and i had to register and pay the fee. Was there anything else the mso officer said to you about why you didnt have to register?

  21. Annonmous

    Has anyone found a place you can listen to the conference call they had the other day? I’m mostly interested in the hour or so they were going to spend on the Michigan side of things.

    • Josh

      @Michigan….I think the more of a convoluted mess it becomes as it appears is happening, the better for us…As glad as I am, to hear that people aren’t being subjected to the nasty looks and stares of the verification process and even more happy that they aren’t taking our money….I won’t be satisfied until names, addresses, photos, and all our other personal info disappears off that website. Hopefully that’s coming soon! I’m not going to check in until after the order of judgement is entered just because I don’t want to waste the time effort… congrats to all of you who did go and got that somewhat satisfying news! Had to feel good!

  22. @Hopeful

    Hey @DisgustedinMichigan, i am pre-2011 sora laws.
    I was able to register and had to pay the $50 fee at the local police station near my home. The sergant said he hadnt heard of them stopping registering people and that they are still collecting the fee.
    Anyone else have any info on why some do not have to register and others like myself still do?
    Thanks

    • Dave

      So I went to the MSP like I always do and they asked me when my conviction date was I told them, and was told I won’t have to verify today and they cannot accept my $50, told me to call back on my next verification date to see what I have to do. So I am guessing that so far only ones that got the Memo are the MSP not county or city since the MSP are wholeheartedly in charge of the registry. My guess if you would of went to the MSP and tried to register they would of told you what they’ve been telling everyone else.

    • Disgusted in Michigan

      @Hopeful…from what I understand, a lot of the local police agencies have not yet received the memo from the state police, and some who have May just be playing hardball saying the State police has no authority to tell them what to do. Myself, I’m going to wait until I hear from someone in Oakland County who has gone to the records office behing the Oakland County jail on Telegraph road who went there to verify and was turned away. Of I don’t hear from anyone being turned away from there, I’m just going to find a nearby state police post and go there since they’re the ones who are in charge of sora and definitely have the memo and are turning people away. That way I won’t have to fork over another 50 bucks this month. I spoke to the state police yesterday and they told me all MSP posts have the memo and are turning people away and I am well within my rights to go to a state police post instead of my local sheriff office. So that’s my plan.

  23. Corey

    Can anyone clarify is the registration. On hold for people CONVICTED before 2011 or COMMITTED there crime in 2011 these two words keeps getting mixed up and make a huge difference In many people’s cases including mine

  24. P31

    @hopeful as soon as I told her what I was there for, she asked if my conviction was pre 2011, I told her it was. She took my license and checked to make sure. Then I was told that they received a memo stating that anyone convicted before 2011, that they were not to register or accept the 50 dollars. That it was suspended, she would put a note in my file to show I attempted, and I should be receiving a letter in the mail soon. That’s all I was told.

    • @Hopeful

      @P31, Thank you for replying. I will be going to the MSP tomorrow to see if I might be able to get my $50 back since we arent supposed to pay according to the memo they have.
      Thank you again.
      @Hopeful

      • Rick

        Idk anyone paid the $50. I registered but didn’t pay the 50, you have all month so I’m going to wait and see what happens.

    • David

      Wow, MM, that is so f’ked up! Talk about big brother! And it appears to be a database of ALL individuals, not necessarily just those arrested or convicted of anything. The citizens of Michigan should be screaming their heads off about this outrage! Unbelievable!! 😠😠😠

  25. Fuzzy

    I’m not due for registration until May (biannual). It’ll be nice to know this might finally be over. The next thing I’d like to see is if we’re not required to register, that the next thing to change is the law allowing us to expunge our convictions. I plead guilty in 2009 to one count of using a computer to commit a crime stemming from the oh so popular sting operations. I know the only thing keeping those of us from expunging our records was the requirement to register. If that goes away, the next logical step would be finally being able to clear our names like any other crime.

    • ConfusedMan

      I’m in the same boat, Fuzzy, except my conviction is from 2004. When I pled, the “Using a Computer to” law was not restricted from expungement—a law a few years later that, ironically, primarily gave multiple felons the ability to have some convictions expunged was tinkered with at the last minute by the state GOP to explicitly add all sexual-based offenses as non-expungeable. I was furious, but at the time the registry was my bigger concern and it seemed there was no way to get off the registry via expungement anyway. Now that getting off the registry early (I expected ten more years) is a possibility, I’m wondering if I can sue the state over the expungement issue as ex post facto, as when I pled I believed expungement was an option. However, I also feel the specific “using a computer” law is unconstitutionally vague nonsense and I’d also be happy to go in on a lawsuit to that end. We can’t let these insane, reactionary laws written at the height of Internet panic stay on the books, literally anyone who used a phone, calculator, car, bus or Uber had a “computer” in play when committing a crime, and that strikes me as a prime example of an overly broad, ill-defined law.

  26. Bobby S.

    Hello Everyone,

    I received this email from Tim at the ACLU today, and a copy of the memorandum as well, the memorandum is in PDF form so as soon as I can figure out how to share it I will, in the mean time here is the email I got today. Him: Attached is the memo from the MSP.  The local police are not required to follow it but we hope they do. As of today the MSP is not going to mail anything out to anyone because this is all up in the air.  Also note that this memo and the actions of the Michigan State Police do not remove you from the registry.  We do not know how this will all play out but it is the position of the MSP that they are just putting this issue on hold and will wait to see when and if a new law is written.  

    Respectfully Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist 

  27. R M

    I’m not in Michigan. I did hear what was said on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am8T4Naee58

    Maybe someone in Mi can FOIA the email sent to the Michigan State Police?

  28. Bobby S.

    It looks like the State of Michigan, postponed the Betts case again, unless they postponed it again to see what happrns with Judge Cleland’s , anyone have any thoughts on this at all.

    http://publicdocs.courts.mi.gov/SCT/PUBLIC/ORDERS/148981_61_01.pdf

  29. Bobby S.

    So does anyone know if the order was filed yesterday 3-13-2020. and what exactly went down yesterday. Just curious if anyone know any thing yet or if the courts had posted the order yet. Thanks in advance.

    • Josh

      @BobbyS……like you & many others I spent most of the day yesterday watching to see if anything happened with that order of judgement. After not seeing or hearing anything I contacted my lawyer who is generally in the know and gets alerts about these kind of filings. The lawyer also heard nothing but offered up several opinions about what may have happened.
      1. The judgement was entered and the judge has yet to sign it in….
      2. The judgement was entered and the judge may have rejected it due to something he didn’t like about it….
      3. The judgement was never submitted due to mutual agreement on a extension? (Possible given how many extensions we’ve seen over the last 3+ years)
      These are some of the options that my lawyer said were possible. If, the last option was the reason then it might stand to reason given what was said by the gentleman from the conference call that they hoped to have it entered by the end of this month. I’m still trying to get confirmation that I heard that right or wrong? Long & short of it is that I guess we wait and see which we all should be really good at by now…

      • Bobby S.

        @Josh, Thanks for the information. Hopefully it was entered yesterday, and this is coming closer to finally ending.

        • nick

          Anything less than ALL pre 2011 rc’s completely removed from the registry will be a huge disappointment. We’ve played by their rules and did what we were told to do. Enough is enough.

      • BM

        Everyone – checked Pace this AM and an order extending time to file was entered for 3/20/20. The judge stated though:
        “ The parties report that they have engaged in substantial good faith negotiations, including collaborating with the Michigan State Police Sex Offender Registration Unit, exchanging draft notices and judgments, and considering revisions to the draft notices and judgment.
        The parties further report that they are optimistic about the ability to reach a resolution, but seek an additional seven days – until March 20, 2020 – to finalize and submit the required documents to the court. In view of the parties’ joint request for additional time, which the court approves”.

        Hope this helps!

        • Bobby S.

          So, from what it sounds like it is more of the same crap, kissing the State butt because the ACLU thinks the state will actually do something, I highly doubt it. Plus with the virus going around the State will make up excuses, that they need more time and bla bla bla. The Judge needs to step in now, and order the registry shut down, until the State does their job and fixes the registry and starts removing people now, not when its convenient for them.

        • John s

          Don’t seam fair, if any of us could not complete something in the time frame the Judge ask us too do something we would be in the joint no excuses for us or delays.

  30. Bill

    So my wife, who enters these orders for our county, said more than likely it was delivered friday and it is sitting on a desk waiting to be filed. Depending on the case load and how many people in the office that can enter these are factors. However, when it is entered it will be dated for friday march 13. At least this is how it works in her office.

    • Josh

      @Michigan….it is really astounding how many obstacles that have popped up over the last 3-4 years….we’ve had bad faith negotiations, election cycles, budget battles, extensions, Larry Nassar, and now that we’re this close….a pandemic. I do not doubt that the state will find a way to turn this to their advantage somehow but on the bright side many did not have to cough up $50 bucks and got to walk out of their registration offices with a bit of dignity finally. What the end result of all this will be no one really knows…but it sure has been a roller coaster ride…

    • M C

      @Bill,

      I file stuff at the state court level all the time but not in MI (they are collections related matters for my job). What you say happens all the time for that actually. In fact, orders or anything for that matter can even be filed on a Saturday or Sunday. What happens, is the order or filing goes to the court administrator for entry and it goes in when they get to it. When they are filed on a Friday at least here, it’s not unusual for it to take until as late as Wednesday to be entered by the Court Admin because there’s a backlog once the weekend is up.

  31. Bill

    Seems to me they should be doing their negotiating within the 60 days, they had 4 years to negotiate in ” good faith” and nothing got done. This is just kicking the can down the road again. Let’s get the 60 days rolling!

  32. fuzzy

    ACLU wants to make the state look like the bad guy (they already are) in the eyes of the judge. They already have the W, but it’s basically turning into “Hey, we’re trying to get something done here, but these guys are f’ing around”. I can only see that helping us in the long run. The date we should all have marked on our calendar is the one where this all changes if the legislature does nothing. As much as I would like nothing to happen, the registry goes away, etc., I see that as a trap because they can write a new law down the road and they’ll get us somehow. I’m cautiously optimistic, but only time will tell.

    • Josh

      @Fuzzy…..that has kind of been my thinking & concern too. The judge slapped the state pretty hard for playing games & procrastinating…..then turned around and gave them 2 months to fix it. Another factor that may play in our favor is this COVID19 hysteria. More & more is being shut down including government and I saw some of the pundits saying we’re right at the beginning of a 6-8 week period where it’ll get worse before it gets better….that kind of timeline can’t be bad for us if the best case scenario is that they don’t do anything to fix it. I can’t imagine that we’re at the top of any legislator’s to do list given the circumstances….We just really need to get that clock ticking…..

      • bill

        The virus will get a lot worse if you have people going to register, it will get into the family’s of the officers , jails and lots of citizens and the registrant family’s, this virus can and will kill!

        • Roger H

          @bill, as a side comment to those who might want to skip registration due to the coronavirus, I advise all of us to not be filled with fear about what might happen, and instead focus on what we can do safely. When we register (if we don’t we are looking at jail time–guaranteed), we can avoid touching things unnecessarily, we can wash our hands as soon as we leave, we can keep as much distance as possible from others in the room, and so on.

        • Will Allen

          I think even if a person has coronavirus, he/she should register in-person when and where required. Registering is so important that if you don’t provide one tiny little bit of useless information, you can be charged with a felony. Therefore, coronavirus shouldn’t even be a thought.

  33. Bobby S.

    Hi Everyone,

    I just seen this on NASROL, and thought I would copy and paste and share it with you all, so here it is folks.

    Tim P
    While no one knows the final out come of this issue. I can be fairly sure that arrest will NOT take place if you are a member of the pre April 12, 2011 class in this action. If for some reason a local Police Dept. or Sheriffs Dept. did make an arrest the case would be thrown out once the Judge saw the order from the MSP. And while the MSP can not tell local jurisdictions what to do the memo itself would be proof of the reason the Registered Citizen did not register. (those who’s conviction happen prior to April 12,2011). While the MSP did make many mistakes in the order itself, for example not saying what things are no longer required from post April 12,2011 members of that class. (people who’s conviction happen after April 12,2011) we are confident that once the order is signed and on the record in the court this will be cleared up and that signing could take place today or soon this week. I should note that the order will NOT go into effect for 60 days from the date it is on the record in the court. Of course there is a slim chance the State will start working to rewrite the law and then of course it will have to be constitutional.
    Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist

    • G4Change

      “…(those who’s conviction happen prior to April 12,2011). While the MSP did make many mistakes in the order itself, for example not saying what things are no longer required from post April 12,2011 members of that class. (people who’s conviction happen after April 12,2011)…”

      In the past month, I continue to see a flip-flopping between the word “conviction” and “offense”. For most folks, the difference won’t matter. But I’m sure there are a few folks that will be affected. Is it if your CONVICTION happened before or after April 12, 2011, or is it if your OFFENSE happened before or after April 12, 2011??????

      It’s time to figure this out and then be consistent about it!!!!

    • Nick

      Bobby S…thanks for the post. I guess it’s good news but it depends on what is in the order. Fingers crossed.

  34. TnT

    @ Roger …. or sneeze in hand and hand them dirty pricks the i.d 🙂

  35. TnT

    @ WillAllen …Ha ha ha … Now That I do like 🙂 🙂 🙂

  36. Bill

    I would rather stay on the registry for life than to knowingly go in and infect someone with covid19 and have them possibly die or spread it to someone else that would die. I think it is pathetic to suggest this. Its not the person who takes your info or their loved ones responsible for this. Even if it were i dont see how it rises to a potential death sentence

    • bill

      Same here, I am saying it could add to the spread,, and it could happen I wouldn’t ever want anything like that to happen to anyone, I sanitize my ID, to make sure, some may not realize how dangerous this is. So read what I wrote, it isn’t anything like your saying!!! Stay Safe..

    • Will Allen

      @Bill:

      Appreciate your opinion. The whole dynamic is interesting. I think/hope we all realize that different people believe different things due to the entire path of their lives and how they have ended up to today.

      I’ve thought a lot about people like Timothy McVeigh and how he ended up on the path he took. Why was he like that and not like Gandhi? Does there have to be people like both of them? I think that a lot of people, including a number of my very closest friends whom I’ve known for decades and respect greatly, do not appreciate that given the right circumstances and life paths, they themselves would be Timothy McVeigh.

      I think a lot of people hold themselves in too high of regard and give themselves too much credit for being “good” people. Most of them are “good” people because they had good lives that lead them there, as it would have anyone else. And I feel like most people do “good” things or activities, like helping other people, not really to help but because it makes themselves feel good and improves their own self-view. Some people have to keep trying to prop up their “goodness” or their self-view will falter.

      I also think that people’s attitudes regarding the Registries are extremely dependent on a person’s personal life, how well they are living, and what all has happened.

      I’m not a deep philosophical thinker and I don’t want to blab forever so I’ll try to be brief. But I think a person’s view of the Registries is EXTREMELY dependent on what the person expects of life.

      Let’s think about a couple of people, let’s say the first person was convicted of child molestation, spent 10 years in prison, and has been out on parole for 1 year. He is completely under the control of parole who has told him where he can work, live, eat, etc., etc., etc. He is just very happy to be out of prison and living in a small apartment.

      Then there is another person who committed a minor crime in the 90s, spent no time in prison, and completed probation in the 90s. The person was initially told he would be listed for 10 years. His children were bullied and couldn’t have friends in the neighborhood. He was forced out of a home that his family owned. Kept out of employment. Harassed at every turn, often for very truly stupid things. Had to hire attorneys to fight the criminal regimes. But he became very wealthy and now has multiple homes. Just that alone is a problem with the criminal regimes.

      Due to hard work, he lives an easier life where few people tell him what to do. He’d like to buy a home on a beach but can’t. Why not? No sensible reason. He is not free to travel because of constant threat of arrest. In fact, he lives under general threat of arrest and has to constantly check if law enforcement, operating outside of the law, is being legal or not. And still lives under threat of arrest even if they are. All the while he watches people committing very serious crimes that are actually harming people and they have no restrictions at all. It offends people with brains.

      And this continues for decades.

      So, of those 2 people, do you think they would have different attitudes about the Registries?

      For me personally, I put a line in the sand. The Registries aren’t acceptable and as long as they exist, I’ll ensure they are worthless and that the general population pays consequences for them. That is the line. We’ve all got burdens, so I guess it’s just too bad. America has always been about hate and we are going to hate.

      The Registries destroyed most empathy and compassion that I had for people I don’t know. I understand that MOST people don’t care if my family is homeless. I understand that MOST people don’t care if I have a hard life or die from starvation. Some people do and even more people SAY they do, but when it comes right down to it MOST people don’t and even MORE don’t if it inconveniences them in any way or if I don’t ACT how they prefer. People are simply not as good as they or you think they are. They are good when things are working okay for them.

      Additionally, law enforcement attracts and hires crappy people. Not ALL of them, of course, and I’ve known plenty of good LE. But most of them. Most of them are fine with you being in prison and your family suffering. Most of them think Registries are fine. So I can’t have much concern for them.

      It is a goal of mine to keep as much resources from LE as possible. It is a goal to keep them in chaos and dysfunction. If half of them have to stop working, that’s perfect. They should stop harassing people.

      The Registries make monsters. That is a key goal of the Registries.

      BTW, I know how to end the Registries. Perhaps I’ll post about that one day.

  37. TnT

    @ Bill … that’s your opinion , in my opinion your a fool to think YOU would say something so stupid .That’s how they get away with registries people like YOU.

    • Will Allen

      Interesting take. Maybe if the virus were Ebola.

      You might give someone a virus that they were fairly likely to get anyway, that likely will harm them little, and that wouldn’t require them to change their life in many ways that they shouldn’t already be doing anyway. They might have to take off work for a while. I should care about that when they don’t care if I have employment problems?!

      Do you think a POSSIBLE virus is more harmful than shooting that person with a gun? Even if all the person has to do is practice the hygiene they ought to already be practicing?

      Just trying to get a perspective here. Because you know we don’t even think people who shoot other people with guns are all that dangerous. We are fine with shooters living next to schools, for example. We are fine with them being in schools. No biggie.

      Does your “life sentence” theory cover the flu? It’s contagious and kills tens of thousands a year.

    • Bill

      @tnt
      So you would potentially kill someone so that you could be off the registry. I might be a fool, but there is something wrong with you that cant be fixed im afraid

      • Will Allen

        Registry Supporters/Terrorists are absolutely getting people killed, including families listed on the Registries and families that are not. There is no “potentially” to it, they are doing it. They don’t care as long as they are getting their jollies.

        So your first sentence is wrong. You also should have said there should be no Registries and people should be minding their own f*cking business and leaving other families alone. If they don’t, they deserve war and everything that goes with it. That’s more accurate.

        The Registries aren’t going away by continuing to act and speak as if they are acceptable and sensible. They aren’t going to go away by continuing to stroke the fragile egos of the psychos who support them.

        Drastic action would end the Registries. But people want to be nice and loved by law enforcement and other harassers.

    • TnT

      @Bill you call it what you want buddy, if you think for a minute If I had it and I had to continue register I WOULDNT really care if them J@ck Azzes took it from me like they did my constitutional rights 28 years ago before a registry was ever written ….. . As a matter of fact I am sure 42000 atleast in Michigan alone wouldn’t give a F%$k either , They get what they deserve they are the enemy, They work for them they take from my family EVERYDAY …..if you would have asked me this SAME QUESTION 28 years ago when I was 19 I may have felt much different, I have lived this HELL for 28 years SON , So as far as I feel, I hope they think about this! PEOPLE ON THE REGISTRY HAVE LITTLE TO NOTHING TO LIVE FOR THESE DAYS , LET ALONE THEM !

      • Warpath

        Can you imagine where we would be if we took the same attitude as @Bill when the british invaded? Ja-an bombed pearl harbor? Etc?

        “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”

        This is a war for America. People that believe that registries are acceptable deserve whatever repercussion they receive. We are only demanding our constitutional rights. Our rights are what Makes America. I for one am willing to fight by whatever means necessary. Im trying to not lose my freedom in the interim as I would far less effective behind bars

        • TnT

          @WarPath …. Agree 100%

        • Love, peace, and happiness

          As much as I hate what has been done to us, I do not wish death on those who have wronged us.

    • Roger H

      @Tnt, I understand your anger. I’m pissed off at these injustices also. However, spreading hate helps them justify their treatment of us. They call us non-human monsters who have uncontrollable passions that justify the registry, presence restrictions, and residency restrictions. Deliberately planning murder by sneezing on them will not open their ears to our fight for justice!

      MLK, Gandhi, and others fought for civil rights on multiple fronts, never giving up. BUT they knew if the public perceived them as hateful and violent, it would be human nature for the public to become fearful and defensive and justify their unjust laws. If you want proof of this, look what happened to the Black Panthers. It officially dissolved in 1982 (you can Google why) without lasting social change, but MLK’s fight lives on, and progress has been made.

      A MESSAGE TO EVERYONE:

      Do you want to see progress in our fight for registrants? Take the energy you are putting into anger and channel it into Showing Up, Standing Up, and Speaking Up with us!

      If you are in California, have you written the letters yet for changes we want to the registry? Do it today. If not in California, start writing letters and making calls to your own legislators to fight bad bills and support good ones.

      Have you ever showed up in Sacramento with us or your own state capital to speak out against bad bills or fight for good ones? Start saving money today to do that. If you are in California, come next January for our big fight to get registry changes made.

      How many meetings (face-to-face or phone) have you attended? Call in to our next meeting, which is on the phone. And when we decide what to do with our conference, join us there. If you are in another state, find a sympathetic civil rights attorney and start your own chapter.

      Are you donating sacrificially to ACSOL to expand our efforts? It is hard to expand our efforts on a shoestring.

      If you stew in anger alone, you will accomplish nothing except a spiral down into despair. But if you join us you will feel hope and be a part of our progress.

      By the way, I hope Californians are enjoying the lack of residency and presence restrictions ACSOL won for everyone in California.

  38. Bell

    To all members reading this…

    A new bill has been introduced on March 17, 2020 into the Michigan legislation based on Sex Offender Registry cataloged under HB 5679 of 2020.

    All I can do is shake my head over it.

    • Warpath

      There is no way Judge Cleland will approve this and these idiots know it. This is another stupid attempt to prolong this process past November. They run a very high risk of an injunction against the registry if this passes the legislature.

  39. MI in Chaos

    Can someone tell me why the State of Michigan is letting a 30 year old kid, from Ionia, re write the registry act??? Did he read or hear anything that Judge Cleland ruled unconstitutional?? He was still in diapers when the registry came out in Michigan. I sure hope Cleland and the ACLU puts their foot down on this trash.. Just because you grew up in a prison city, doesnt mean you know everything. What is your reasonings behind this bill?? Oh Wait it’s an election year, somebody must be trying to get re elected…

    • Disgusted in Michigan

      The only good thing I see, from what I understand, is if you were convicted prior to October 1, 1995, you no longer have to register. I may be interpreting it wrong, but thats what I got out of it.

    • ConfusesdMan

      No way else to put it: ACLU got played. Absolutely played. That delay the State asked for last week? This was why. It wasn’t to finalize communication, it was to have a bill sponsored by the GOP so when this hits Michigan news outlets they can say “a bill designed to keep those offenders on the registry, sponsored by Representative Howdy Doody, is already being considered.”

      • Warpath

        They have approx 3 weeks to get this through the entire legislature and sitting on Whitmer’s desk. Judge Cleland has already stated an injunction will ensue if the state fails to move ahead. This bill isn’t even scheduled to be heard until March 25. It is still in committee. It will take an emergency session to get it through in time. I wish the ACLU would comment

        • Josh

          @Warpath….why would the ACLU comment on this before the order of judgement is even entered? As near as I can tell this doesn’t come close to being what the judge was calling for. This was a premature effort by some hill billy trying to make a name for himself. Like you said it has to MAKE it out of committee…..the order of judgement will change much of that proposed law in my opinion….pretty sure this was written without any input from the ACLU either. This is the kind of bill that the state should have proposed 3 years ago when they first had the chance to rewrite or fix the law. This probably would have passed back then without a hiccup..

  40. Bobby S.

    So I was just wondering if anyone besides my self thinks there will be another stall tactic or we need more time because of the virus excuse tomorrow. I just hope the judge finally signs the order and this thing finally comes to an end. Does anyone else have any thoughts on what will or might happen tomorrow.

    • Nick

      Veen thinking about it today and I wonder if it was a case of hot potatoe that got passed down the ranks til it got to Howdie from Ionia who was desperate to get his name on something. I’d just realy be surprised it that trash goes anywhere.

  41. Quietman

    Has anyone heard anything today, of whether Judge Cleland has signed the order and accepted the notice and final judgment language from the ACLU and State attorneys? Just curious. Peace.

  42. Bobby S.

    Hello all,

    A couple of things I was wondering about, did anyone else get this in their email box tonight.

    1) Many of you have heard the disappointing news. Michigan representative James Lower has introduced House Bill 5679 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billintroduced/House/pdf/2020-HIB-5679.pdf) which would revise the current Michigan’s sex offense registry law. It has been placed in the House Judiciary Committee. It is disappointing because this bill is not very different from the current law. It contains few changes, apparently trying to satisfy Judge Cleland’s order asking for a new law in 60 days or else he would take pre-2011 offenders off the registry, and make certain other parts of the registry non-enforceable for everyone else. The old registry law was declared unconstitutional, and it is likely that the new law still would be. Below are a few notes from Tim at the ACLU. I am waiting for some direction from the ACLU next week on how we can best proceed to advocate for ourselves. When I hear something that will be useful to you I will pass it on.

    Tim, ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist, has said “The ACLU will do all in it powers to get a bill we can live with. While their can be no guarantee of what the out come will be, our legal team and our legislative team are doing their best.  We have not and will not give up”.  He also wrote, “The 60 day order is going to change because the Covid 19.”

    2) Also has anyone checked the registry tonight? I have been checking every 1/2 half hour so far and get some weird page. I have tried OTIS and Michigan Department of Corrections and the State Police site and keep getting the same page. how about anyone else.

    • Josh

      @BobbyS…..Who are you getting these emails from? Secondly, I checked the registry a few minutes ago and the only thing different is a Recaptcha page….Somebody with a pacer account can probably tell us about another delay if there is one….didn’t have real high hopes for anything happening today anyway! Anybody care to use their pacer account to update us if possible? Thanks in advance….

      • Bobby S.

        @Josh,

        The first part I got an email from MCFJ that Kathie, I am sure other people who get emails from MCFJ got the same email. as for the registry website, that was the only thing I was getting as well recaptcha page. They will come up with an excuse now and blame covid-19 for the delay.

        This is what I get when I check the site:

        http://www.icrimewatch.net/index.php?AgencyID=55242&disc=

      • BM

        Everyone,

        Latest from Pacer. It’s only been extended a week.

        Telephonic Status Conference held on 3/19/2020, ( TELEPHONIC Status Conference re-set for 3/26/2020 03:30 PM before District Judge Robert H. Cleland ) Disposition: The Deadline for Submission of Proposed Notices and the Joint Form of Judgment extended to 3/27/2020. (LWag)

    • Matthew

      Ok soooo……WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THE 2 YEARS OF NEGOTIATIONS????????

      WHY WAS IT STALLED THIS LONG TO JUST END UP WITH THE SAME WATERED DOWN BILL????? Extension after extension after extension…FOR WHAT???? They should’ve stopped catering to the State LONG AGO and
      acted SOONER!!!! This is beyond FRUSTRATING.

      What’s going to happen when the US lock down occurs and people are beyond bored? We will be a target!

      • Josh

        @Michigan….just heard from my attorney and there WAS a joint conference call around noon yesterday. Apparently, there was agreement to set the deadline back YET another week until 3/27….I really don’t get the strategy behind this….

  43. Sold Out

    Absolutely pathetic. The ACLU, whose raison d’etre in 2020 appears to be suing schools to force transgendered males into women’s sports, makes money off of sex offenders. How? Suing states, municipalities, etc. where registry statutes overstep constitutional boundaries, dragging the cases out as long as possible, earning Pyrrhic victories, and getting tax payers to fund every billable hour they rack up. They don’t care about us or our families. Don’t be fooled. We keep their lights on.

    In no other country is there anything like the American registry. The ACLU has utterly failed to do anything about it. We can’t rely on them, or woke University law students. We need to sue, repeatedly, over the registry being cruel and unusual punishment.

    • Nick

      Ok…I am far from being an atty so will someone please explain this to me. The schmuj ub Uinia submitted the bill this week before Judge Clelend reviewed it? Then they asked for an extention to the 27th and then they will talk to Judge Clelend? Why bother if the bill is already subnitted? I was under the impression that the ACLU, Michigan State Police, lawmakers, etc. were all working together so does this mean that they all agreed to the bill as written before it ws submitted or did “The Schmuck” pull a fast one?
      I hear people talking about not having to register anymore but to me that is a long way from being removed from the registry altogether.

      • Matthew

        No Nick,

        The bill has nothing to do with the judge. It was just introduced and has to be reviewed by the judiciary committee and then they have to have testimony from victims and also registrants about impact etc. It will most likely be tweaked through amendments after amendments.

        This bill will take a while if not a few months to pass…..AND the GOVERNOR has to agree with it, or else it will be vetoed.

      • Josh

        @Michigan….I’m not happy at the delay at all…not even a little bit! BUT….we all need to chill out and relax. That bill is SHIT! It does nothing to address the ex post facto issues. In my opinion, that little fool who introduced that bill most likely jumped the gun by filing the bill before order of judgement. Additionally, from what I read it appears that his main objective was to make the language less “vague”. For example, he tried to define the exact footage for the school proximity rules…..all those rules were applied retroactively(ex post facto) in the first place(2006) There are massive problems with this bill. IF, and that’s a huge IF, that the bill makes it out of the judiciary committee in it’s current form then there’s still more hoops for it to jump through…..votes in the house & senate then off to the governor’s desk..I counted today and the legislature is in session for 34 days total between today until the end of June. They could get something done if they’re motivated enough I suppose? In regards to the COVID 19, it is f’ing EVERYTHING up in case you haven’t noticed so why not this too….I do think there could be some back channel negotiating going on hence the delay. It’s just my opinion that this house bill 5679 isn’t part of that…..just remember that any member of Michigan’s House of Representatives can introduce a bill at ANY time and the timing is problematic because it got us riled up at a time when we’re all overly sensitive….Again, let’s take it easy and see what develops before we freak out….I doubt the ACLU fought this hard just to sell us out now despite their continued generosity with OUR time….I hope this helps! If you disagree, it’s cool…I’m not easily offended

        • BM

          Josh –

          Not to mention the mass confusion 2 systems would have. Already complicated enough. ACLU stated there was no interest anywhere to have multiple registries. This would create that but even has things in it we know cannot be. Chalking this up as dumb timing or just a real idiot.

    • Warpath

      Careful Sold Out. It ain’t over until the fat lady sings. I completely get your frustration but this isn’t over. To my knowledge Judge Cleland’s order hasn’t been entered as yet. His order was abundantly clear what his expectations were. This bill falls far short. The ACLU has battled continuously for us for some time and has stated they will not quit. I wouldn’t care if they became multimillionaires as long as the end result is we get our freedom and our rights recognized. Lets not jump to conclusions and give this the time they said it would take.

      • Nick

        Thanks very much Matthew. So this had nothing to do with the ongoing negotiations with the ACLU, The Oliver Group and the state. It’s been 50 years since I had a government class.

  44. Ghost

    I can’t believe another delay because of the covid-19! They had years to do this and all this does is stop us in our tracks at a time we need answers. I’m stuck in a motel because of the registry (But I’m thankful for having a roof over my head) and I need to move if things get bad. It almost feels like who cares about us in all of this. we have restriction on our movement and that’s not good at these times and then they want to delay again. And why if where not required to register are we still on the web site. It’s a cat and mouse game they keep playing with us and I don’t know about you but I am freaking tired of it. If something happens and I have to leave I will go without telling them since I don’t have to register. I was told when I made sure I didn’t have to register that I did not have to. Well what if I was coming in to let them know my address had changed. They can not make me non compliant. So screw them.

  45. Blake

    So if I’m correct the bill introduced does nothing to take care of the expost facto right? Also no one before 2006 should have any of the restrictions on them correct? So how does this bill do anything the judge declared is unconstitutional? I guess I’m not understanding what is going on with this bill.

  46. Bobby S.

    Thanks, everyone for the updates, all this putting it off week after week and using covid-19 as an excuse is stupid. We won already they need to stop kicking the can down the road already. Who wants to bet it will get postponed again next week and the excuse will be the virus again.

    • Matthew

      I agree. If they feel the need to keep extending it, then they need to make the registry temporarily NON-PUBLIC. In the midst of this virus, that’s expected to get worse by next week, and last for 18 months, this judgement may continue to be delayed for a while.

      When this country goes on mandatory stay at home lockdown for all citizens to eliminate the spread of this virus ( and yes it will come to that), people will be bored out their minds, with plenty of time on their hands, and I feel we will be a target for harrassment, etc.

      They need to get this fixed NOW, or at least temporarily go NONPUBLIC for the SAFETY of us ALL!

  47. TnT

    Just another EXCUSE … What is funny is, they talk about protecting the public ???? Look at what is going on today in this country ?? They cant even protect them selves from them selves ??? S*%t is a joke .These registries do NOTHING but put peoples lives in DANGER ! Just more B.S is all. ANother way for them to try to trap as many as they can. Michigan Legislators You Suck !

  48. Bell

    Michigan will be on lockdown for two weeks come midnight tonight. Gov. Whitmore announced it around 1100. I can see this working in Michigan’s plan.

    Once again, shaking my head…

    They will get yet another extension due to the fact that only essential businesses like banks, grocery markets, and doctors offices/hospitals will be open. Will they consider the legislation essential?

    • TS

      MI legislators can work from home remotely. This effort shouldn’t be stopped.

    • Disgusted in Michigan

      @Bell actually its 3 weeks, and I was just laid in from work.
      To everyone else, I just went to the Oakland County Records Office in Pontiac to see if I have to verify (I am pre 2011) and the deputy at the door was not allowing anyone in. He gave me a paper notice and said I need to verify online, but there is nothing on the paperwork that says that or says how to do it. It just has the MSP SOR Hotline number with the following statement, “Sex offenders should keep a copy of this document to bring with them as acknowledgement of attempting to comply with SOR duties while the Coronavirus protective measures are in place.”

      • Will Allen

        I’d simply have to tell the stupid f*cks that I’m not a “sex offender”. I am a person that out-of-control, lying, nanny big government forces to be listed on a big government hit list.

        We need tens of millions of Americans working to ensure that big government is broken and dysfunctional. I’m doing my part.

    • David

      At what point will Judge Cleland finally say “Enough! You legislators have been given multiple opportunities and many months and yet have failed to provide any statutory remedy to this situation. Therefore, I now declare the Michigan SORA entirely unenforceable.”.

      Waiting….. Waiting….. And still waiting…. 😠

      • G4Change

        I hate to be negative, and I invite someone to correct me if I’m wrong. I really want to be wrong here. After reading all of the decisions in this case (and not just the recent ones), I don’t think Judge Cleland is a “friend” to Registered Citizens by any means.
        If you look at his original ruling (before it went to the Federal Appeals Court), Cleland did NOT rule in our favor regarding Ex Post Facto. The majority of the relief we have theoretically won is thanks to the appeals court and NOT Judge Cleland. The State of Michigan appealed what Cleland ruled in our favor, and the ACLU appealed what Cleland didn’t rule in our favor. By the grace of God, the Federal Appeals Court told Michigan to “take a hike” and then overturned Cleland’s ruling against us about Ex Post Facto. The federal appeals court ruling was an amazing long shot victory for us.
        Now, of course, Cleland is bound by the appeals court ruling. But, something tells me he isn’t happy about being overruled. Most judges aren’t. So, I doubt he’s in any hurry to help us.
        This is my two cents based on reading ALL of the rulings involving this case. Like I said, I want to be wrong here. And, if anyone has more insight on this, please speak up. In the meantime, don’t expect too much from the Honorable Judge Cleland.

        • Josh

          @G4change…..that is a good point and one that has been in the back of my mind this whole time too. Cleland only ruled on “vagueness” issues initially. I agree with you that he’s not specially fond of us and honestly we’re nobody’s favorite class of criminal…But, I’m starting to think that the only thing he likes less then being overruled is being made to look a fool by the state of Michigan. Everybody wants to blame him for the delays but it’s not his fault when both parties come to him asking for extensions. What’s he going to say? I’m sick of you both acting amiable towards each other and I’m going to come crashing down on you! He is nothing more then a referee here basically. It’s taken 3 years of games & bad faith negotiations from the state for him to blow his whistle and call a foul. Who knows what the outcome of this would have been if the ACLU had played hardball from the start as many of us wished they had? Would the judge have ruled so definitively against the state 2-3 years ago if they hadn’t had a chance to show the kind of track record that they have? I seriously have my doubts that they’ll retroactively date the order to March 13. The state will go whine to the judge about COVID19 and how we can’t legislate this properly because we can’t meet and blah blah blah….”We’ll take this up in the fall session your Honor when we get back in September” is how I can see this going….

        • G4Change

          @Josh: You make very good points here. Thank you for your insights on all of this.

        • Matthew

          Josh,
          Itll be before the fall. They can legislate by working from home remote just like many of us do. The judgement for 60 days will start pretty quick. They have time to craft a new bill, then they also have time to work in whatever it is they have during this 60 day period. I highly doubt that the judge would buy a September or fall delay.

          They also have other non related bills they are currently working on, so yes they do have time without a delay

  49. MidnightMike

    Been a while since I posted. I haven’t tried since the corona thing,,, but just before it I had to get a new plate for my pickup,, old one was separating. They would not even take the new plate number at the state police station because I was pre 2011. I was very reluctant to just walk out. The officer at the desk made a note in my “case notes” and printed it out and gave it to me finally but he would not enter the new plate into the computer.
    Also,,, even if they take a month to get the order signed,,,, it should still be dated March 12th,,, I’m not an attorney but I believe it COULD be done that way especially given the extraordinary amount of time it’s taking past the 12th.,,, now past the 20th,,, I believe if both parties agree then making the effective date 12 March would be permitted ,, if anyone who knows anything about all this is monitoring these posts,,,,,, Updates please!!!! Maybe another ACLU call or something to fill us in on what’s happening would be nice. Pretty please with sugar on it.
    God bless everyone!!!

    • Josh

      @Matthew…it was a bit sarcastic & tongue in cheek…..I don’t really think it’ll last that long either. I don’t agree with @Midnight who mentioned the possibility that the order of judgement being made retroactive to March 13. I don’t see that at all….the state isn’t likely to concede 14-21 days out of 60 to make the changes ordered….1 or 2 weeks more of delays would start to push the deadline out until the end of session and the summer recess…..My sarcasm aside, I wouldn’t put anything past the state at this point…they’ll do whatever they can to throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks..this is who they’ve shown themselves to be….

    • Dave

      This is exactly what happened to me in Michigan.

      I am 54 years old and have never had a license plate fall apart. After ordering a new one and trying to register it I couldn’t because it wasn’t yet in the system. I said…. “Don’t I have three days to register a new plate?” The lady said “yes” well how do I do that if you wont update it? She said I had to wait until it reached the system. I said… “Okay how do I know when it reached the system?” She wouldn’t answer me and said…. “next”

      I said this months ago. This isn’t some odd thing happening. They know it’s a problem and no one cares.

      Now the new proposed law will change my tier for the fourth time. Tier two offenses will have to register four times a year instead of twice.

      I also am part of Michigan’s legislative committee. I can tell you the ACLU is actively working on a next step regarding what is going on. I have told them the state is telling people to register online. Well I just don’t see that as a option. It’s just not available.

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