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MI: Lawmakers debate changes to states sex offender registry law after court ruling

Michigan lawmakers are debating how to overhaul the state’s sex offender registry after a federal appeals court ruled sections of the law are unconstitutional, but Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel is contending the proposed fixes don’t repair the law’s flaws. Full Article

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First the pandemic, then protests, then Black Lives Mater, then calls for defunding the police, and who knows what else.

I don’t think Michigan’s system is going to survive, but I’m hoping beyond hope here.

I think you underestimate the evil behind the Registries.

Registry Supporters/Terrorists are going to fight like hell for their $$$$$ and hate. The vast, vast majority of the 99% (or whatever) of families in America who are not directly affected are going to continue to not care about Registries. I think most of them don’t want police to murder people of color, but plenty are fine with murdering anyone listed on the Hit List. We have very recent evidence of use of the Hit List.

The Registries have never been useful and always been harmful. They can be 100 times less useful and it won’t matter at all. The Registries can keep existing and doing nothing. Won’t take much for that.

Hi Will Allen,
I agree. No one should be on a registry.
We need help. You probably are or have done this, please write letters, your testimony with data from the science and submit them to the Judiciary Committee in the Michigan House of Representatives and educating them on the harm to families and the individual and society. This makes a difference. Also include your representative with a copy.
Our representative didn’t even know that to the upward of 10,000 juveniles / 44,000 are on the list— that is sick and a data – fact based system of harm that we need to teach our representatives on. The ACLU says to write letters /testimony. This is the solution but we need help—we need to effect the change and the time is NOW!

This is a big group that should have a solid voice and a voting power to get those not listening out of office. I know the letters that are coming in are more than all the other bills they are addressing and it makes them nervous.

Note that many of those elected in representing us don’t even know what the SOR means, harms the public, families, and individual and creates immense suffering sometimes for a lifetime. Educate and advocate with your testimony now!!

Honestly, we need more testimonies sent in with facts. If you and anyone else want this to change be part of the change. Start writing!!!!!! Start telling your story and help oppose HB 5679 and let’s go for abolishing the registry!

Write the governor as well! Come on 44,000, rise up and effect change with your letters!!!!

@ Bay: And don’t forget the Flint, Michigan water contamination debacle!
Yes, what a mess! 🙄

I liked how the article concluded:

According to a 2019 study by the U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, which looked at sex offenders’ recidivism rates from their 2005 release from prison until 2014, “sex offenders were less likely than other released prisoners to be arrested during the 9 years following release.”


BTW, since Michigan did point out how some of these laws are unconstitutional and those affected, 2011 and back, would be off, I’m wondering if something similar could happen in California.

Re: Taylor ruled presence and living restrictions were unconstitutional. Thus, those are punishments. If someone earned the 1203.4 (case dismissal), then those punishments were implemented during that time. 1203.4 states a person “shall thereafter be released from all penalties and disabilities resulting from the offense of which he or she has been convicted”. Is there a case to be had here for that group of registrants?

Hmm. There haven’t been reports or news articles about former registrants rampaging through the state groping and raping every woman and child within sight since Cleland’s ruling. Whodathunkit?

Am I the only one who noticed that?


The misinformed public would call that fake news; reality calls it real news.

“You can’t punish someone under one set of rules, then change the rules and go back and re-punish the person,” said Paul Reingold, a retired UM law professor who has argued on behalf of the plaintiffs and testified before the Legislature during recent deliberations.

How do we get Paul to join ACSOL in the fight against Tier registration? The state keeps moving the goal posts to continue punishing registrants.

@We need Paul – he was part of the 6th COA case and is on our side already. The ACLU brought him on specifically for his experience in Federal Court appeals cases.

Not sure he’s licensed in CA or familiar with CA state law.

I’ve heard him a few times speak on our behalf and watched his testimony to our judiciary committee here in MI. Amazing guy.


Reingold is an amazing guy! He helped my family last year when city police tried to force us to move. Does II was already in the courts, Paul sent two emails on our behalf and the situation mysteriously seemed to resolve itself….at least for the time being.

There was also a gentleman, Ralph, who was prevolent on many support boards Rewdiazepam was his screen name. SUPER knowledgeable on court cases, winnings and state/federal laws. If you ever come across some of his stuff he’s a great read, but sadly he passed from cancer October last year.

The problem with that is many laws have been passed post my conviction date (the year 2000) and I’m being forced to follow said rules for life or face incarceration. In Michigan they’re trying to force anyone who moves there to follow the laws of the state they left which I’m clueless how they can pull that off considering many states are doing different things. Am I the only person who thinks theres no way they can pass such a rule? Especially when one is supposed to follow the rules of the state they’re moving to and such new rules have been held unconstitutional for people convicted prior to them?

@Michigan…I don’t know if anybody else caught it but Michigan’s Governor plans to extend the state of emergency past June 19….She announced that at a press conference today. Anybody have a idea or opinion on what that means for us legislatively or court orders that may be issued?

@Josh, Isaw the same thing on the news, she said she might expand it well in to July or even August. This whole covid-19 and State of emergency thing is getting way out of hand in my opinion. As manyof you may know or remember i will have 28 years on on this stupid thing, my conviction date 6019-2020.

This has to end the court needs to step in now, and either the order of people off the registry now, or abolish the damn thing altogether. enough is enough.

There hasn’t even been any word from the committee or the legislature about any of this, they need to stop using the so called pandemic as an excuse and fix the registry like they were told to do.

Kristen ~ I fondly remember Rew, and he has been my savior many times. He was very knowledgable with a great heart. I will never forget what he brought to the forums. He always responded, no matter how small or big my problems seemed. He is surely missed by so many in this community.

@Someone Who Cares

Rew was truly one of a kind and missed by so many! He went out of his way multiple times to personally call me and my husband just to follow up and offer encouragement/advice. It was terribly sad reading of his passing, his son posted on two of his forums and what a terrible loss for the SO community to lose someone like Rew. It was so incredible to read all of the comments for the lives he’s touched over the years. I made a personal promise to him to always help him advocate for this class of people against these draconian laws. I will do my damnedest to live up to my word.

I speak to him often in my prayers to ask for his hand from up above regarding Does II and this HB 5679 nonsense. God rest his soul. <3

While I don’t know much about this Paul Reingold but from your all’s comments and from gathering a bit off the internet about his accomplishments he seems to be a moral Civil litigation rights lawyer and he does present good values. From reading up a bit about him he speaks a lot of biblical type truth and understanding. And yes its no wonder Michigan wants to change a lot of this sex registry today.

While I myself couldn’t quite put a lot of this encounter into focus at the time of my arrest I did have some basic roots. Sure my dad even hated to go to Charleston, WV and listen to court cases in the business he was in and all the twisted laws and things for the Gas Company during the late 40’s, 50’s and even up until the mid 70’s. Yes it was some hard times for people after WWII in a coal mining state. Hey the depression was bad also.

In this sex offender law enforcement seems to override divine justice than a clash is their in many ways. Now Janice and Chance and the team will straight much of this restorying of Civil Rights which we have much lost. I’m sure one has to agree when divine law goes up against civil law the two can be a “Clash of the Titians” so to speak. Sure I believe in civil law but justiable law but what about unjustifable well thats a bit much and ole so tricky.

Hey Moses gave the Commandments and nobody keep the law? So Janice in my book you and Chance and your team are leading the way as much of this registry makes no sense. And you guys thanks for telling me about this Reingold person. Yes we can all study but in many ways government is getting out of hand. Just take a look at this black life’s matter ordeal or any other life should matter.

You would think the legislature would be meeting privately during this time to draft a better bill during the emergency so they don’t have to rush when this state of emergency is over.

Honestly, I can see this going into summer 2021 before changes are made. We will have many new legislatures in January 2020 due to election year, and will probably have to educate the new legistures and the process starts all over again!

So yes, I expect this to drag out for quite a while.

Remember the police have to send notices to all registerants once this emergency ends to let them know of their obligations. You would think they would wait until a new bill is passed, you kill two birds with one stone. But who knows….

Isnt everyone watching what is going on in this country, sex offenders are the least of legislators problem right now, this country is on the verge of another civil war from what Im watching , Police are quitting by the 1000’s,

Ever since the registry has been around, we’ve had the LA riots, 911, Iraq War…they still haven’t forgotten about us. We are and will continue to be enemy #1. So don’t get your hopes up too much. We older dogs remember a lot more. A few people marching in the streets demanding police reform doesn’t mean the start of a civil war. In fact, the opposite is true today. More races are coming together in protest. Politicians in both parties and even our idiotic president have now called for some kind of reform. People will continue to protest and as usual, scared teabaggers will continue to hide in the corner with their guns until the protests are over. The police are here to stay and they have no choice but to suck up the criticism like they always have for decades.

@Russ who said “Politicians in both parties and even our idiotic president have now called for some kind of reform.”

Our idiot president signed an executive order with only suggestions.

Agree completely. The Registry Hit List is not going anywhere. The majority of people who live in America love to hate. Being self-entitled, self-righteous, opinionated, know-nothing, douche bags and running other people down is one of their favorite hobbies. A lot of them are proud of it.

The Hit List is going nowhere. We are always going to have stupid people crying about how we need big government to have a Hit List. There are always going to be lying, pandering politicians to placate those idiots. There are always going to be people wanting it to exist to profit off of it. Law enforcement, probation/parole, courts, prisons, “therapists”, etc. are always going to be doing anything they can to keep their business big and pulling in $$$.

Tens of millions of people must wage war on these people who want big government. Make America a free country for once.

Will, I am with you, ditto. I would ad that special interests, NGO’s, victims advocate groups, and especially FEMINISTS constantly agitating for attention to their causes is another big piece. And I can’t ever forget that every single talk show host, Oprah, Rinaldo, Nancy Grace, and every stinking drama on TV over the last 30 years has lived off this . Yellow journalism, muckraking mfrs.

@JoJo: I have seen that some police have left special duties and some have left entirely but not “1000’s”. Care to enlighten me?

LPH. Im just watching news like everyone else. In past years when there has been an unjust killing of a black man by police, you may see rioting in that city and maybe few others of week or two, but with get off my neck movement, everyday its getting bigger and bigger now. Look at Seattle/ Buffalo police force / Atlanta police force this is getting more intense not less. I see so much neg talk on this site and not much hope on all the comments, I feel we ( especially in MI pre 2011) will get off SOL /. It will start to have a domino effect across the USA. /. Remember BLM / is connected to SOL more African American males are on the list as BLM movement says they are targeted. Look at MI legislators before rioting they were meeting every week. Not now!!!. , why ! To punches SO would be further punishing African Americans unjustly again, I feel they know that and cant afford even bigger unrest. I maybe wrong , but ive never seen anything like this in my 50yrs

Very interesting read today on CNN regarding probation. Sounds very similar to what we deal with!

Good read, I suggest taking a moment.

Went to register today I have 2 months left on my 15 years. They told me due to law suite I cannot register or pay $50. They were nice and gave me a note saying so. Any updates ?


I was told just the opposite when i went in on my birthday the 2nd, the clerk told me some departments are not registering and some are and that they were still registering people.

So just to cover my butt i did register, i have been on it now 28 years 3 years past my original 25 years that was on 6-19-2020. I also have heard nothing on whats is happening with all of this, covid-19 or not, it’s time to start removing people from the registry.

Hello Everyone, I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything on what’s going on with the order, or if they have been meeting every 30 days like they are suppose too. Any word from the committee? I emailed Tim Thursday but haven’t heard anything back yet, and the way Whitmer keeps extending this stupid State of Emergency Order, I don’t see a end to our dilemma anytime soon. I just wish Cleland would step in and just start the 60 day clock, and put an end to this crap already, any new updates would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

All I know is the governor extended the emergency health pandemic order until August 11 at 11:59 pm.

One thing everyone in Michigan may want to do is to regularly check for updates on 2020 HB 5679 sponsored by Rep. James Low-Life – uh, I mean, James Lower.

Here’s a link:

I am not sure what the latest is with this bull – uh, I mean bill, but everyone in Michigan needs to continue to sound off and prevent this bill from advancing.

I’d say to visit this link at least once a week to see if it gets any new calendar dates. In the meantime, hopefully someone can school Mr. Low-Life – uh, oops again, I mean Mr. Lower about the Constitution. He needs to know that if something is Unconstitutional and you simply rewrite it to say the same thing and just change a few adjectives, nouns, and verbs, that is is STILL Unconstitutional.

I have a feeling that these dirty politicians are not used to this resistance to something regarding registered citizens. In their feeble minds, these kinds of bills should be a “slam dunk”. This is why we all need to continue to stand up to them. And, while you’re at it, please thank the Michigan ACLU. Unlike other branches of the ACLU, at least they give a crap about registered citizens.

While I’m sure many have reviewed this article in the news 4 years ago seems nothing has happened but all states should take a better look not only for their constutional justice but also for their own Christian and religious views. Yes some states are working on good moral values but when justice is compromised in this type of ways of way were is the law of conscious or any biblical objection. Much of this inbalance comes into play with all this two wrongs don’t make a right. I would think everyone would have a view on this type ordeal. I’m sure all states that look for truth should take a second look at their own immoral justice system. No wonder we are having black’s in protects and abortions and all sorts of kayos today.l

I can’t agree more with G4!
They are surprised by the unexpected feedback they received. We need to keep our heads up and be ready to respond back and note they could create a new bill. They will be concerned with the election and we all have to get out there and VOTE! There is a large group here plus family and friends and we have to work it to support our Michigan ACLU. There is no time for any low energy. Be prepared! Be ready!

So there’s time to fix the SOR to be “Gender Neutral”


Very frustrated with whitmer moving state of emergency to sept. 4th. I would think cleland would do something about this.

The link you provided is not working but, from what you’re saying, I take it that there is an attempt to make the law work the same for females as males. Yes, as with making the laws work the same for both gay and straight Registrants, this is a necessary step and one we should not see as at odds with our common goal of dismantling of the registry. Bringing awareness and focus to the injustice of the registry, and seeing it as a form of punishment, is a very good thing.

I agree Sheldon

They have time to draft bills to make the Registry “gender neutral” because that’s most important right now but not fix it the way they were ordered to

So, while things are currently unenforceable, does that mean I can actually take my kids to the park right now?


I would! Go take your kids and enjoy yourself.

I’m just glad to see that they’re rewriting pretty much every law for gender equality instead of the one law that was deemed unconstitutional.

I’m thinking that they’re not going to rewrite the law at all so they remain SORNA compliant for those dollars that they’re looking for and force the judge to make the ruling. That way it seems like their hands are tied.

For 15 years to the day I have been on the registry. Today I got off at 12am automatically I am paranoid now are there any rules? Can I just up and go on vacation anyplace? Take my kids to school? Move any place? Would love anyone’s input on this.

I don’t have any answers to your questions, but I just had to say: “CONGRATULATIONS!!!” I hope this is the beginning of a new and prosperous chapter in your life!!!


As another person who is no longer forced to register … the answer to your questions is … it depends.

In the state where you currently reside the answer is yes to all your question. If you are no longer forced to register then none of the laws restricting you apply.

However if you plan on leaving that state, then the you questions depend on the laws in any state you plan to travel/move to.

No longer being forced to register is a great relief, but it is not complete freedom as each state has their own laws and applications.

These are my own conclusions, and prior to leaving your state I highly recommend speaking with an attorney, specifically one in the state you plan to travel/move to …

@I am off

This is not legal guidance so check with one who works with/for an outfit like ACSOL would be very helpful for you to fully understand you abilities now. However, yes, you should be able to take your kids to school, move where you like, and vacation (even overseas without notification). Congrats to your freedom!

I would say yes mostly. I would first notify homefacts, they will remove you within a week.

I would Google your name and notify each private “supplier” website that thief information is inaccurate. Most will remove you.

However, some will not, after 4 years there is one private site that has refused to take down my information.

Also it will take private background search companies (employment) 6-12 months to update their information.

You will have to be persistent.

Don’t you think it is funny that you would have to tell homefacts anything? Are they not supposedly reporting facts? If a person is listed, they are reporting that fact. If a person is not listed, why would they report lies? Maybe they should call themselves homemostlyfacts?

Same with these other reporting websites. Are they simply not accurate? I would guess they aren’t especially robust. I just find it hilarious that a person has to tell these “information” sites anything. Obviously they aren’t that good at their business.

Could sue for libel and defamation for inaccurate information.

Congrats! Quick question to those removed from the Michigan registry—were you Tier 1? If not, did you serve the full 25 years (assuming you were Tier 2), or did you somehow get off earlier? I’m Tier 2 in Michigan with 9 years left to hit 25, and I’d stopped paying close attention to changes in laws years ago when it seemed useless, so I’m curious if I’ve missed a mechanism for getting out earlier.

Congrats! I’m happy for you!!!

To I Am Off,

That’s great to hear, congratulations and GOOD JOB!

As for your concerns, it will probably vary greatly so just do your research and above all keep your wits about you. Just be a conscious person and try to keep ahead of the game. Yes, you can breathe now, lol.

And try to be a friend to those in need, just as others who came here when they needed it. Which may mean keeping a foot backward into a world you rightfully want to forget.

However you chose to move forward from here, best wishes and God speed.

Janice, I believe many of these issues are about to come to full bloom with the reduction of many on the registry if not many in these torturous ordeals and Government will say where did we go wrong in this inducement in leading one astray. I just wish I could go to face book at 2 pm today eastern time to listen on this facebook/netgraceorg but maybe many on here can fill us in as we all seek releif in many area’s of this ordeal.

@I am off I can answer some of your questions and this has been talked about many times in the travel threads. First, if you would still be subject to federal SORNA you may still encounter problems with certain international travel under IML, but you also might not. Second, if you move or vacation in another state you would be subject to their registration laws that might require you to register with them even where federal SORNA doesn’t apply. As an example one of the worst states (Florida) will require you to register there for vacationing for more than 4 days (though I think you can bypass this somewhat by not being physically present in the same county at all after the 4th day). Worse, if you end up having to register in Florida you will be permanently placed online and you will come up on a simple google search of your name as registered.

When vacationing be very careful to know the laws for these things before going there and try and plan in such a way that you do not trigger a registration requirement somewhere. Chances you get caught if you should register and don’t may be relatively low but its probably not worth the risk especially because there are ways to vacation nearly everywhere and avoid triggering these registration requirements.

I am a tier 3, which is crazy for the original offense. Supposed to register for 25 years. It’s been 22 years. About 15 years in, they retroactively turned my 25 years into life. I was scared at the time when this all happened, so I took a deal that offered me no time in jail and my record expunged. I took it because I wanted it behind me. If I knew this was going to turn into a lifetime punishment, I would’ve never taken the deal and gone to trial. If I would’ve known how big the Internet was going to make the registry, I would’ve never even said ok to the 25 years. Anyway, thing is, I was under HYTA. People not familiar with that, that Holmes Youthful Trainee Act. The judge essentially puts you on a 3 year (for me back then it was 2) probationary period, if you compete it, it’s supposedly expunged from you record. Mine was, but I still had to register as the state said “it’s not a form of punishment.” This act was created to give people a second chance on life so this record wouldn’t follow them around forever. Well, it does. I have been lucky enough to get decent jobs but have been seriously hindered getting to really good positions that I now qualify for with my experience but once they do a background check, even though it’s not on my record, they see I have to register and immediately I am disqualified. They don’t ask for an explanation, nothing. Just thank you but no thank you. This Coronavirus has screwed us because this law was supposed to change months ago and the lawmakers now have an excuse not to confront this issue. Part of the statutes that were declared unconstitutional is the retroactive punishments applied to people after their case was long over with. Also, since it was deemed a punishment, they are also considering removing HYTA status offenders. Recently I lost my job due to Covid. I have been offered several positions, all of which they basically say to me ok, as long as you’re not a sex offender or anything, you’re in. So I am incredibly concerned about getting work. The fact they’re hiding behind Covid to change the statutes they’ve been ordered to change or to just rewrite all of SORA is a shame and a sham. I’m in limbo because most lawyers have zero idea about this law, and others that do tell me not to apply for removal until the legislation acts. So I’m stuck and very nervous that I’m not going to be able to find work. I want off of this thing and cannot find a lawyer who will help me. If anyone knows of one in Michigan, please let me know. I check on the Internet weekly to see if there’s been any movement with the legislators and of course there isn’t. I look up lawyers that supposedly help with sex offenses or registry but more than half don’t even know what Does vs Snyder, either case, is. The ACLU that fought this case says they don’t help individuals. I’m stuck. If anyone can help, please let me know! Thank you and good luck to everyone.

The biggest problem I have with all these retroactive changes is that when we were convicted we were told one thing which we relied on to make a decision on a plea agreement and then it was changed. Unfortunately, this was typically not something we got in writing mainly because we didn’t anticipate this stuff being changed whenever they felt like it. In my case, I was convicted before Smith v. Doe so I really had no clue they could just make retroactive changes anytime they wanted. If in writing at least you would have Santobellob v. New York.

What offense did they raise to Tier III?

I have spent the last 15 years on the registry, but was only suppose to be on for 5 years per our plea deal. The Law changed about six months after my conviction to give me 25 years. Then it changed again to life.
I was fortunate enough to get an exspungement about 5 years ago. I am still expected to spend the rest of my life on the registry even though I have no record what so ever, unless this law fixes it.
I was promoted to upper management about 2 months ago. I started to feel like a normal person again, until Friday when my HR lady comes to me and tells me they are letting me go because someone called in and told them I was on the registry. I am trying to power through this but it feels like a slippery slope that has no footing. My family wants me to sue because I have been a perfect employee and don’t deserve this treatment.
I have a job interview tomorrow, wish me luck. God speed to all of you dealing with a similar situation.

Why did it change to life, what was your conviction charge?

This needs to hurry up right now there is a growing trend on social media called #savethechildren and other groups like it that are talking about violence against RSO and there has been acts already committed against RSO . Having such easy access to our private information would only help those who wish to harm us .. please let this information be know. For it is a Growing trend

This is true. Our local PD posts anything they can related to RSOs on their Facebook now, also share links to the ML website and such, even for FTR or arrests for other crimes. They have been doing it a lot more in the last month. They are taking advantage of the hashtag and the political climate and the fear that the defund the police movement might mean taking the registry money away.

Trickle down social engineering. It’d be nice if covid-19 happened to all social media as well. It was destined to be this way, the ball has rolled too far.

Ready yourselves and take care of your families because people are idiots and politicians are blind.

Via Tim @ACLU

The Judge just ordered the State and the ACLU to appear for a status conference. We hope that he wants to get a final judgment entered. Depending on how much time he gives us, we may have a deadline for entry of judgment shortly after the election. We think the Judge is probably getting impatient with the legislature, and think that he will set another deadline soon, despite the pandemic. But also that ultimately whether people stay on the registry and for how long will depend on what the legislature decides to do.

This is the only information have at this time!

@Guy, I received the same e-mail today from Tim. I was going to share until I seen your post from Tim. I hope this is getting closer to being over soon.

The judge should void it and tell the government ALL people released should fall off the registry after a certain period of time as long as they stay crime free. Its a waste of taxpayers dollars to give extreme lengths on the registry (including life) when said person has kept out of trouble for a decade…….

Punitive Punitive Punitive ! Punishment Punishment Punishment !

Are the new sorna regulations trying keep us on the registry, because of it being retroactive.

@ Sheldon: The 6th Circuit’s recent decision might do that. 😣

@David and @Sheldon, I am beyond terrified that this could be the reality. I literally feel like I can’t breathe, all this work over the years could just be unraveling right before our eyes.

Would love your thoughts, please comment.x