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National

Michigan Supreme Court Declares Sex Offender Laws Are Punitive

Source: ACSOL

The Michigan Supreme Court today issued a decision declaring that the state’s sex offender law adopted in 2011 cannot retroactively be applied to a registrant convicted two years earlier.  The Court based its decision upon the ex post facto clauses of both the Michigan and the U.S. Constitutions.

“Today’s decision is a significant victory not only for the registrant involved in this case, but also for all Michigan registrants convicted prior to 2011,” stated ACSOL Executive Director Janice Bellucci.  “This decision can and should be used as a precedent in every state and federal court.

In its decision, the Michigan Supreme Court found that the “aggregate punitive effects” of the state law “negated the state’s intention to deem it a civil regulation.”  In addition, the Court found that the state law “bore resemblance to the traditional punishments of banishment, shaming and parole because of its limitations on residency and employment, publication of information and encouragement of social ostracism…”   Further, the Court found that the law “appeared retributive” and “appeared excessive.”

At issue in the case were provisions of the 2011 law that created a tiered classification system as well as duties and requirements of each registrant based upon the registrant’s tier classification.  One of those requirements was the publication of personal information on the state’s Megan’s Law website.

“The Michigan Supreme Court is to be commended for speaking the truth today in its decision,” stated Bellucci.  “The court did not accept the government’s stated intention that its registration laws were civil regulations and instead examined closely the effect of those laws leading to the conclusion that the laws punished registrants.”

Download a PDF of the decision:

People v. Betts – Ex Post Facto – July 2021

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If it saves one child l. F that if it saves one vote is what it should say. These mother bangers get to sleep with no issues but we the people get to worry about what’s going to happen. Worthless crap is all they are I hope they have someone close this happens to.

Hey guys. I just sent this email to Tim this evening. I’m sorry if any of you feel I was out of line. However, I merely said what all of us have been thinking all along.

Hello Tim.

I’m writing you because there are a number of us Pre 2011 who are concerned. 

Here’s where we are at right now in our thinking. We feel that whether or not we get off the HIT LIST really isn’t high on the list of priorities for the ACLU. Why do we feel that way? Well because during the hearing last year in front of Judge Cleland, the fact that the 2011 amendment extended our registration times was NEVER ONCE mentioned. It was like that fact just wasn’t important enough to bring up. 

Ms. Auckerman has mentioned MANY times that the ACLU wants the registry eliminated. So we are all well aware that that is where the priorities lie for the ACLU. 

Now you guys are talking Does 3. Where are we on the list of priorities in that suit? Are you guys planning to file it before we’re able to file our own motions using the Betts ruling, to lock us in again so that we are stuck again? 

So basically, we want to know where us Pre 2011 stand with the ACLU. 

@ThatGirl. Thank you. This is what I have been questioning since the beginning. I am pre 2011, having been convicted prior to the registry being conjured into existence. All this time I have been questioning why the retroactive application of lifetime registration was never raised in the litigation. I think everyone would agree with me that doing something about that is much more important than worrying about trying to have the court declare we don’t have to provide email addresses any more.
This whole case was a farce and a complete waste of time and money. Big freaking deal that I won’t have to provide my email address, don’t have to abide by the safety zones, or all the other little things that mean nothing. I really don’t care about all that. What is important, and should have been a priority, is litigation the lifetime registration for those of us it was applied to retroactively without due process.

@ThatGirl….I don’t think you were out of line at all. If anything I think you should have taken him/them to task even more. They’ve made millions off of us. I’ve got no use for them anymore. The ONLY thing they’ll get credit for from me is whether or not their paper victories help me when I file my own lawsuits…..The ONLY part of this I ever cared about was the change to lifetime registration…. Now that we can’t be prosecuted for old sora stuff, I’ll freely admit to attending every sporting event at my kid’s school. I lived in a exclusion zone because I was grandfathered in…from time to time I drove vehicles(gasp) that weren’t registered to me…..I don’t give a shit about ANY of that stuff but getting within 8 years of being removed from my original 25 and getting THAT letter that we’re so familiar with was the straw that broke the camel’s back…you know how I know that the ACLU is only in it for the $$$$$$$? It’s that their stated goal is to completely get rid of the registry….that’s a impossible task which will never happen…..in my opinion they’re spineless, gutless, clueless, and naive if not downright incompetent….go ahead and start correcting and chastising me for this point of view but I’m not apologizing. I’m getting MY day in court which is all I ever wanted….

Okay, I’ll chastise you (and the others that share your opinion).  🙂

Some caveats – I don’t live in MI so this stuff doesn’t *directly* affect me. And I haven’t followed it closely.

But, I’ve been listed on the Oppression Lists (OLs) for well over 2 decades. The law originally said 1 decade. I won’t bore you with all the harassment stories and crimes committed by the criminal regime against my family, just know it’s the same as with millions of people.

The MOST important thing by far with regard to the OLs is that they are ended 100%. It is not that *I* am not listed on the OLs. Or that *you* are not listed. It is that the OLs are ended completely and that a person sentenced *tomorrow* will never be listed. If a person does not agree with that then they are a dangerous, harassing terrorist who I want to have listed on the OLs.

Beyond that, “safety” zones and all that other stuff you mentioned is very important to all the families that have to deal with that harassment. Or even worse, who might be arrested for it. In my case it is extremely important because if I’m ever arrested for anything related to the OLs, some serious retaliation will have to be undertaken. Too much work and destruction. So, that stuff is a *lot* more important than it appears or people believe.

Lastly, I’d cut the ACLU some slack. You realize that they are not obligated to help anyone, right? I’d also bet that probably every single person who works there could make a lot more money (and benefits) working somewhere else. Probably every person. I don’t think they are in anything for money. If they were, I think they’d concentrate on cases that are a lot easier to win than “sex offender” issues.

I think the problem is not the ACLU but that this BS is actually pretty hard. I expect they tried their best. And if people don’t think so, you are very free to do it yourself. There is absolutely no reason that you cannot form your own ACLU-like organization and end your OL requirement yourself. You, and however many others you want to also help and/or to have help you. A lot of people would be very grateful, so you could start working on that immediately.

We should all be grateful for people who are not obligated in any way to help, but are trying. The ACLU is not an enemy. Registry Aholes/Supporters/Terrorists are. Out-of-control big government is. Their out-of-control law enforcement criminals are. That’s the enemy.

Two things with this.
ACLU didn’t do this out of the kindness of their heart. They’re going to collect 5 years of fees. That’s in the judgment. They’re going to collect. I don’t think they’re the enemy, I just don’t think they did a very good job of pursuing the case.

As far as it being complicated, which I’ve read a few times, on a few posts

If the original intent of Does 2, was to get Does 1 to apply to everyone, which it should, then there isn’t really anything complicated about that.

Even if it was complicated, it’s been in litigation for 10 years. So they’ve had ample time to figure it out.

Again, nothing against the ACLU. It’s just that after 10 years, I’m still waiting for a remedy to a law that’s been determined to be unconstitutional, not once, not twice, but three times now.

But it is out of the kindness of their hearts. I know people who work in these kind of organizations. Many, many attorneys work for a tiny fraction of what they could make working anywhere else. Same with the executives. Would you sign up for that? How about 1/2 your current salary. Or 1/10th? Or worse?

The ACLU has a certain amount of money. I’m sure that handling “sex offender” cases reduces the amount that a lot of people give to them. People hate that. ACLU can pick and choose where to spend money. It is all to fight for civil liberties. They could surely pick easier and more popular cases. They aren’t doing it to get big windfalls of money to put into their pockets. They are trying to reimburse their expenses, pay their salaries, and stay solvent for the next fights.

Yes, legal BS like this takes forever. I’ve been waiting for over 2 decades for the criminal regimes to get some morals, simply admit some facts that are obvious to anyone with an I.Q. over 90, and destroy the Oppression Lists. It’s a war. Just because the ACLU and a million citizens are fighting them, the criminals aren’t going to just roll over and do what you want. They are criminals. They are going to do what they can get away with.

I haven’t personally hired attorneys to fight for me for years. I can’t get people to even chip in on that and do it with me. The ACLU, ACSOL, etc., are it. They could be working on more popular, more profitable causes, but they aren’t. Anyone who isn’t happy about the results is free to do better. They would be heroes.

Of course they’re going to collect, but that’s not why they fought for us. The ACLU is a non profit organization that works on donations and they have bills to pay. Aukerman is NOT going to be pocketing hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. No one in the organization is getting rich from this lawsuit. While it is true that they didn’t have to fight for us, the fact of the matter is they DID, when no one else wanted to, and being such a huge and well known organization, its the best thing that could have happened for us because I sincerely doubt some small town, unknown lawyer could have done a better job or had the willpower to stay in the fight.
For that, I am thankful.

@Will Allen…..bro I appreciate you and your perspective. I do concede that the ACLU didn’t have to do anything at all for anybody. My point is that they strategically for lack of better wording shit the bed…the biggest mistake was to have faith that the state could be negotiated with…politicians are all Registry terrorists as you like to call them….secondly, they never operated from the position of strength which they were in for a large portion of the proceedings. Their class action locked us out of court for the duration of Does II and this new 2021 sora makes it nearly impossible to file a federal suit because it would take the precedence and the resources that most people don’t have to make a solid case that the new law is still unconstitutional….they(aclu) likely cost us another 2 years minimum with the impending Does III….sorry I’m not sorry about not cutting them any slack. They’re gonna get paid and I get NOTHING

I keep thinking about the thousands of people that are affected by this life on the registry here in Michigan. I know that it is very hard on everyone and everyone has different circumstances they’re dealing with. I’ve heard some stories on here and I’ve been holding back on telling mine. Maybe it’s time. First, I want to apologize for some of my posts and grammatical mistakes. Are use the dictation feature on my iPhone because I am blind. I’ve had a couple of our diseases for quite a few years and it finally caught up to me in 2005 in my vision has deteriorated to the point where I had to do a medical retirement from work. And give up my drivers license. Three years ago it’s gotten to the point to where I knew it was really time to face facts so I went through the waking training in I sent in an application for a guide dog. A few weeks later I received a reply from the guy dog school in my application was rejected. I had sent in character reference letters and a video that they requested showing the Way I walk and going on stairs and thanks. I thought for sure it had to of been a mistake so I called the school. I was told that there wasn’t a mistake, that they had pulled up my record and saw that I had a felony conviction. I explained that that was 30 years ago and I had only been in trouble one time in my life and that was it. I was informed that because of the nature of my offense my application has been denied. I explained that there was no violence in my case and was told that it didn’t matter. I pointed out the fact, ironically, that their school used state prisoners to train a good portion of their dogs and that it was insanely hypocritical to think that these prisoners, it sometime in the future might be in a position to where they needed a guy dog and they wouldn’t qualify because he had a felony conviction. I was told that it was true that they use state prisoners but that would not be a problem… Because they don’t use sex offenders for their training. Enclosing I was told that it was the policy of their school do not be associated with people like me. To me this life on the registry is a lot more than reporting four times a year. I could do it in my sleep I’ve been doing it so long. The Guy dog would give my wife a break from leading me around when we would go out shopping or something. It meant independence to me. I’m 69 years old and I’d rather not finish my time on that freaking registry.

What cruel, evil, hypocrites the people who run that guide dog school are! When did society decide that any person on the registry, no matter for how long, or for what reason, is less of a human being than they are!?

So basically you were denied medical treatment because you have a felony conviction. Its their “policy” not to deal with “people like you”? You are aware that policy does not trump law, right? Sounds like a lawsuit to me. If I were you, and if you don’t care about being “outed” I would go straight to the media.
They don’t allow sex offenders to train with the dogs, huh? What’s the deal? Do they think the dogs are going to be molested?
Their attitude stinks.
Don’t worry about your spelling and grammar. No need to apologize because the grammar police do not patrol this forum.

Disgusted in Michigan… Let me explain more of what happened. After I got through with talking to the guy dog school on the phone I called ACLU which intern told me to call Michigan civil rights in Lansing which I did. They investigated and said that as far as I could tell the school that I apply to and all others in the United States receive no federal money. They operate slowly on donations and fundraising. That means with them not getting any federal money they can do what they want to do, and pick and choose who they want for a client and who they don’t. Now… Going back to when I was on the phone with the guy dog school I brought up the fact that I had done some research and that I know they do at home training besides training on their campus depending on what the circumstances are with the client. Some have young children at home that he can’t leave so I have elderly parents there taking care of and some have jobs that he can’t get a three weeks leave to attend their school. So I said I would prefer to have the app Home training anyway and that I would prefer it to be a male instructor because for 30 years I’ve been damn careful I’m getting into a situation to where somebody could possibly say that all he touched me here he did this or he did that. Then the person from the guy dog school told me that that was not an option because of again I had a felony conviction and for the safety of their staff they would not come to my house. This is not a small fly-by-night school… They do between 303 150 dogs a year. I know that they’ve gone as far as Kentucky and Tennessee Ohio Indiana to do at home training. I live about an hour from their campus. So a lawsuit is not an option. As far as going public… No way in hell. I can just see the school saying that to protect their clients and their staff their policy is to not do business with people who have sexual felony conviction. Every time I talk about this I just can’t believe it actually happened, that the world is like this. Murder… No problem. Drug dealer… Welcome to the club. I also checked with schools in other states and pretty much the consensus was that I should be doing business with the school in my state and if I was turned down by a local school there must be more to it that they are unaware of. The thing is now, if they did change their mind and said I could go to their school I wouldn’t go.

I like animals, and am a pet owner, but there’s a cult of animal lovers in the US who are just thinly disguised misanthropes. I saw an article recently speaking to the difficulty of adopting shelter dogs in the NYC area, with long waiting lists, income requirements, very invasive questions, and an air of judgment that would turn off most Americans. I’m not sure if that’s what’s going on at service dog training facilities, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

My wife has been involved with dog and cat rescues for quite a few years now. She has gone on many home visits to check out the living conditions of the prospective owners and a lot of times they were turned out because of past issues they had her with pets and the lack of proper medical care. This had absolutely nothing to do with that. If they would’ve asked I could’ve given them a half a dozen that’s that we’ve used over the years that I could use his character references. This was 100% being on The registry and having a felony conviction… 30 years ago. One of the comments was that they would worry about the liability and if other clients did a search on the Internet and I came up that they would have to deal with a complaint. I guess I had my hopes up this last time thinking that finally after being on the registry since 94 that I would get poop poop poop poop off and at least that obstruction would be out-of-the-way.

Its a really messed up situation. They won’t go to your house because of “safety concerns” even though you were up front and open with them about your past, yet they will travel to someone else’s house whom they know nothing about. Yeah, real safe.
People really suck. That’s why I do my best to avoid people as much as possible.

@Disgusted in Michigan:
He was not denied “medical treatment.” There was no issue requiring the attention of a medical professional. A private entity opted not to provide him with a special assistive device. They are heartless pricks, to be sure, but they have no obligation to give a dog to anyone, let alone everyone, who asks. Were it to go to court, @And I CK would lose.

That Girl. I was a little concerned when you said you wrote a letter on our behalf (pre-2011) because I am a pre-2011 in a different situation. I didnt get my 25yrs extended to life. So everything that the ACLU has fought and won , has helped my situation a lot and not having to worry about adding new restrictions is a big relief. I too scratch my head at how can they still change all those with 25yr to life ( I think that fight is still not over and you will win that also) What the ACLU did is go for many wins instead of the Hail Mary . See the ACLU fought for what was Federal , Just like Janice , Now every time Janice fights, she wins. Janice is going infront of the Supreme Court next , There is no doubt in my mind that the Registry will be changed and you will have the unjust reversed. So hang in there Brother, you will win in the near future

I’ve already had my meltdown over the judgment. I think you’re spot on.
I think the ACLU’s primary motivation was money.
The registry is never going to completely go away.

Personally, I think the ACLU knew exactly what they were doing. Instead of pushing for a remedy, they spent 2 years rolling over. Instead of pushing for positive change, they left more than ample time for the legislature to saddle us with the mess that is the current law.

Now they want to repeat the same thing, for another 5 years. I really did want to keep an open mind, all the way until I read that judgment. Now, I just think that the side that’s supposedly representing me, does not have my best interests in mind.

Let’s say the ACLU was pushing for change. What kind of change did they get? Now, you have a registry that literally paints everyone with the same brush. Now, I can’t even look at the registry and tell you when I come off. There’s no clear pathway off of the registry. It’s still punitive. There’s a huge number of people who are still on for life, solely based on an unconstitutional law. Instead of, “Does 1 should apply to everyone.”
we got what we got.

So if anyone at ACLU was upset about your email, then they’ll get over it.

That is a good question; Do they plan to file the Does III suit before we can file our own suits using the Betts’ decision? I basically asked Tim that question myself. I wanted to know if they perceived this new challenge taking years. I am trying to plan the next chapter of my life. Tim, as usual, responded in his curt annoyed manner and said I would have to ask the judge how long it will be and went on to say that if I have $1000s of dollars to spend, I can hire an attorney and file my own suit. His bedside manner sucks, there is no denying that. However, the fact is, he is really not the guy running the show at all. He is just the go between who sends the messages to us.

ACLU did not get everything they were fighting for in the Does cases, but there were some wins. The whole case is based on the ex post facto violation. That actually means the situation of changing pre-2011 registrants from 25 years to life. so, that is the priority of ACLU, to address what happened to pre-2011 registrants.

Remember, when you read the term, ex post facto, they are talking about your registration period being extended after the fact without a trial.

One radical idea: Has anyone considered helping buy a house for a registrant in a neighborhood with a legislator we want to sway? In Michigan, there’s literally nothing the legislator could do about it, and they can watch their property value decline. I don’t think any anti-registry groups have the capital to buy a house in an upscale neighborhood outright, but maybe it could be cooperative with a registrant who has the resources to do it. My feeling has been that once residence restriction laws collapsed, there would be incentive to greatly limit the registry because no one wants to be powerless in the face of having a map suddenly indicate their neighborhood is dangerous—I think most people would rather bury their head in the sand once the my realize they can’t threaten or arrest registrants just
for living next door. Anything we can do to accelerate this would be great.

@everyone, I just got a reply back from Tim at the ACLU. I emailed him about this farce, and how it is nothing but a circus and we are the clowns. I also told him that the main issue should have been the exposfacto of the 25 years to life.and this was his reply back to me. Tim’s response

Well first the court never said all pre 2011 people must come off. To have a ex post facto case it was because of the totality of the things they added to the SOR that registrants must do. Now the State thinks that they have removed some of those things like showing tier levels to the public (law enforcement still has them for their use) and all the in person reporting requirements, so now the Judge agreed with the State. We do not agree and will keep fighting. The Betts case is different case and is not part of this case. We must see how the State will deal with it. I am sure we will be back in court at some point, and I know we are going back to federal court. Those people who hire their own attorneys could find they are wasting their money. And they could make it hard on everyone else on the SOR if to many cases do not go the way they think.

BOBBYS… So if I’m reading this correctly… Tim is saying that the judge was satisfied by what the lawmakers had done and agrees with the new sora that was put into affect in March of this year? So I guess it’s just kind of like tough Effen rocks for the thousands of people on the registry who were sentenced to life. Unbelievable.

Judge Cleland cannot say anything about the changes. He ordered the legislature to make changes and that’s what they did. A new lawsuit needs to be filed because Cleland has no authority to review the new changes without litigation being brought. His hands are tied. It’s like telling someone to jump, and the person jumps but you didn’t tell them how high.
I know it sucks but that’s how it works. Cleland cannot interfere.

I am talking to a attorney , he said I could put in a motion to be removed from the list, using the Betts case

I’ve more or less stayed out of this conversation since I know little of MI’s law, but recent comments help it make sense. While the anger and frustration is understandable, part of it may be based on misunderstandings.

Let’s say, for example, ACSOL lost all of it court battles. Residency restrictions, travel and location restrictions, etc., were are still law.

Say a court found the registry in ex post facto violation because of these laws. The legislature, city and counties could merely repeal them all. So, they are no longer punishment. That would tip the balance if favor of the registry again not being punishment (punitive). So no ex post facto argument is left.

So, IMHO, the real fight is in the court of public opinion. There are politicians now using crime as a gateway to win the next election. Our voices have to be louder, more frequent, and they have to be reasoned, as if talking to a judge or a voter. Otherwise, the fear mongers will win and the registry will stay.

I can understand the frustration that every feels. I can understand how disheartening the decision was. But there were many significant victories in both of these cases. Victories that will lead to additional victories. There is now precedent that will lead to other victories not only here in Michigan but everywhere. So don’t think about it as we got nothing out of it. Eventually with enough victories the whole thing will come crashing down. You can see the shift in how the courts are starting to view the registries. But perhaps that’s just my glass half full perspective.

This was Tim’s response to my email. And contrary to what he said, I WAS IN THAT COURTROOM last February. NEVER did they mention the extended registration periods.

The pre 2011 people are a priority for us at the ACLU. In fact if you check you will see that we have referenced this issue several times. I can tell you that if you file your own cases be prepared to spend a good amount of money. Understand that like you we are bound by the Judge’s ruling. Understand that Judge Cleland is pro SOR and very conservative Judge. We were surprised by his ruling in that he did give us some things. So was the State. We do intend to file in Federal Court again. We are also working at the State level. No one knows how the State is going to react to the Betts ruling so it is imperative that you should wait and see if they make changes based on that ruling.

Respectfully Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist

Disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. The information in this email is provided for general informational purposes only. No information contained in this email should be construed as legal advice from me or ACLU of Michigan nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this email should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible through, this email without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer licensed in the State of Michigan, or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.

UPDATE: Aug. 6, 2021: Michigan’s pre-2021 SORA is DECLARED to be PUNISHMENT.

Heres a link: https://floridaactioncommittee.org/michigans-pre-2021-sora-is-declared-to-be-punishment/

Article includes link to PDF.

Last edited 1 month ago by David⚜️

🤔 Would Michigan – under AG Dana Nessel – appeal this decision to the US Supreme Court? 😏 Hasn’t she already expressed her belief that the Registry is wrong? 🤔

@⚜️……I wouldn’t count on any more help from her. I believe they’ll try to appeal just because they’re a bunch of sanctimonious pricks and just because they can….I don’t know how long before they have to file the notice that they intend to appeal but I’m sure it’ll be sometime before October….

@Josh

Appeal timeline is 30-90 days as I read it on this source: 28 U.S. Code § 2101 – Supreme Court; time for appeal or certiorari; docketing; stay https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/2101

Oh, and both Whitmer & Nessel are up for re-election so you know that they aren’t going anywhere near this topic unless they can score cheap political points with it

Have ya read up on what the FBI’S role in the abduction threat Whitmer was reported to be subject to? Shady stuff.

Well Tim in WI seems everyone already knew that it would be punitive. Sure the registry is punitive and over punishing one and yes its embarrassment, unconstutional, and, has reprocusions but I believe you all are missing the point of man’s actions. Sure eveyone can say its computers, someone’s thorn in the flesh.. and yes I’m probably a thorn in the flesh to you, David, Will Allen, and many others but one doesn’t really look at the big picture.

Lets take for instance the Atom Bomb and yes I have family members still cleaning up that site in Oak Ridge. How many didn’t even know what was happening. Sure it distroyed many lives or who eats a peach grown around Oak ridge today?

Sure government has a lot to answer for and believe it or not many went to prison for even protesting Oak ridge. Take a look at this past riot today. So who’s distroying who today with this registry or are things just or unjust today? And yes Janice and many are striving to help in much of this .. invasion of the body snatchers if you want to say that. Myself I couldn’t lay something like this on another person computer or not.

@everyone, did anybody else get or reserve this email from Tim at the ACLU. Just wondering what people think about this email. Doe III

Intern
To
Intern
Aug 11 at 10:53 AM
The ACLU of Michigan will be filing a 3rd lawsuit against the State of Michigan called DOE III. Here the statement I received from our legal team: We intend to include a specific claim challenging the extension of registration terms in Does III. We will also be seeking individual consideration, so options for people to petition for removal.

When will this happen? I was not given a date.

How long will this lawsuit take? I have no idea, but we sure do hope it is faster than the Doe V Snyder case has taken.

Will this include everyone on the SOR now: It is my understanding that the main area will be all on the SOR prior to 2011.

How do you become a member of this lawsuit? You will be included in it at some upcoming point if you are a pre 2011 registrant.

How do I petition for removal from the SOR? Until we have a ruling that includes that in the ruling, we suggest you wait until that point in time when a ruling is issued dictating that happen.

Other questions you may have: At this point please do not submit other questions as I do not have the answers. Thank you Tim

Respectfully Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist

Got that one and the update. We’ll see where it goes. The next judgment is another 4 years away, so it’s early to speculate.

BOBBY.S… I received two emails from Tim today, both pretty much saying the same thing but one was directly from the attorneys I guess. I don’t know what to think. They’re going for a class action I’m free to thousand 11‘s and they’re going for individual pre-2011 in case anybody wants to go after their own fight I guess. I don’t like the fall part because that’s a long ways away but look how long we’ve been waiting already so what does it really matter
I appreciate them keeping us informed on what their plans are but are they doing it because people are pissed off?

We have to petition to get off?
I don’t think so, I didn’t have anything to do with being put on it in the first place!!!!!!
Sora is unconstitutional!
Beat the legislature over the head with the constitution until they understand!!!!!!

@Michigan…I don’t know of anybody petitioning yet to be removed due to the Betts decision. I’m sure somebody will soon and it’ll be a real litmus test in my opinion. I was told that the smart move would be to see what the state’s reaction would be….ie. a appeal. I was advised that no electable judge in the state would remove anybody if the issue was unsettled…federal individual lawsuit is a no go at this point unless you have unlimited resources and most likely will only cause bad precedence when you lose….

LOL….yea if your tier one and got caught peeing on a frog..

Yea I got that email as well. You guys do realize just how close we were at winning the whole thing. If it weren’t for the pandemic we would have had a final decision long before the legislators pushed the new Sora through. They did so in a lame duck session where ACLU had no say so, no one did. Clever
bastards the state was. Just think if we would have gotten the final decision before they pushed the new Sora through, we’d all be celebrating right now.
So, now comes doe’s 3, we’ll get them this time around. State won’t be so lucky this time as they were having the pandemic on their side.

I wouldn’t advise anyone to go it alone with an attorney, one, and yea I checked into it. it cost 3-5 grand up front, and $250 an hour plus fees.
figure 20 grand or more once all done. Power is in numbers, such as class action. going alone and you lose, it becomes a legalized weapon the state will use for all cases and justify having registry. You could fark it all up for 45,000 people. Petition to get off applies to certain people a very few number of them.

Why would anyone think Does III would work? Nothing in Does II says community notification is punishment, nothing in Betts says community notification is punishment. In both cases, the judges said the additional factors—tier level, distance rules, email addresses—were ex post facto, but not the community notification itself. They could put us on a public registry for 500 years and the courts wouldn’t care. Only a few rulings—that Colorado federal judge who ruled the registry is cruel and unusual punishment, and the NJ court that recently ruled that if you ever provided a way off the registry you can’t later take it away—offer any hope that public notification itself is something courts will ever be willing to block. If anyone can be put on a registry ex post facto, which a lot of the old timers here were, then Does III doesn’t have a chance.

Doesn’t have a chance?? …LOL….Sure it does. Lawmakers Have agreed in both cases off record, that the Sex Offender Registry Act has failed, However amending the law is difficult because it is a politically volatile topic. I don’t live far from the court hose there and Have faced Cleland 3 times and won. ( unrelated to sex offense, but was plantiff)

All we have to do in Does III is make it retroactive to the new Sora.
They’ll already prove it’s unconstitutional. And state really can’t appeal the two wins. They already tried before and were shot down.
So the ruling in those two cases will stand, just needs to be applied to New Sora. So why wasn’t it in does II or Bett’s?? In does II we were locked out because of new law. Court rules are to apply to the law in question ( the pervious Sora) When the New Sora took effect
it was a completely different law. It requires a new lawsuit.. the way the law works unfortunately. In Bett’s case the ruling didn’t apply
because it was not “class action”. Why Didn’t they make it Class Action?? Because if they lost, there would be no Does III…There would be no hope, you could try, but slim chances if that were class action and he lost. BUT, it didn’t happen that way. He won a very very significant case. One that can and will work our favor in Does III.

Now all we have to do is apply it. Think state can stop it? About a 20 % chance. Not good for them. But it will be a give and take case.
Mark my words on that.

The community notification will be there. The registry itself won’t go anywhere. Many “new” offenders are the ones that are going to get screwed. You see the primary purpose of the registry when first started had two factors, one, to be used as a tool for law enforcement, and two, to deter future offenders and scare them with having registry. Both idea’s failed.

The 2011 Amendment was to get tougher
thinking if they made it life time, future offenders would think twice. It was a similar tactic like saying you murder, you get the death sentence. Well, it hasn’t stopped new offenders. It’s not the old offenders that public needs to worry about , it’s the new and future offenders, and the registry does nothing to stop or deter that. Law makers know this. But public pressure makes it seem former offenders are the ones to watch. Yea right. Very few ever reoffend.

So you see, it’s not far off, public, some know registry doesn’t work, law makers know it, we know it, ACLU knows it, courts know it.
But laws are laws and need to be tore down in our case because it’s unconstitutional. I was convicted 5 yrs before there ever was a registry. Only did 1 1/2 yrs. and 4 yrs parole. And doing life time now?? when I was to be off long ago, I GOT SCREWED… yea it sucks.

Isn’t it still possible that Cleland can rule that the new sora can’t be applied to those of us convicted prior to 2011?

No it’s not. Cleland is done with the case. He issued his final order. By the way, Cleland is a pro-registry judge. The case went back to him after the 6th Circuit decided in our favor. He is not our friend. He was just complying with the 6th’s opinion.

I’ve been on the sor for 28 years now and I’m not even 40yo yet. I’m so frustrated and disappointed with the aclu, the courts, the state, the lawmakers… I’ve lost jobs, homes, friends, family, vehicles and now all hope… lost count on how many times I’ve been put in jail with no charges for days and weeks on end for ‘civil commitment’. Never seen a judge for any of it, no paperwork, no proof that I was there. Just picked up randomly and then after MANY DAYS just let out but told that they, the jail, will see me again soon like it’s some kind of threat. They’ve taken what ever cash I had on me at the time, broken my phones and other personal things I had on me… even had family make false accusations that I had touched younger family members! This is all become to much to deal with anymore. Constantly looking over my shoulder waiting for the next ‘civil commitment’ or false accusations! Nothing like living with the fear of anything outside!!

Iosco County doesn’t treat us like that. Just saying.

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