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Recording of Emergency ACSOL meeting about new SORNA regulations

 

General Comments

General Comments Dec 2021

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☎️ Meeting starts today at 10:00 a.m. California time.☎️

Anyone know what happened to River Whitsett on justfactsnotfear.com? I was excited to have an international travel resource. The site no longer seems to accept new posts and he hasn’t answered any emails in close to 3 months. I know he moved to Germany but has since disappeared. I hope all is well with him

For Michigan residents unsure about verifying after the expiration of the emergency order—I’m level 2 and went to verify for the first time in two years at a state police post, and it went smoothly. For some reason I had an outstanding $50 fee from 2019 (I think it was mid-entered) which I paid, and was told I could pay 2021 and 2022 at my next verification (this summer). I’d been worried since I hadn’t been to a police station in 2 years, but there were no issues at all.

With stories like this hitting the “news,” I suppose it’s just a matter of time until registrants are banned from the metaverse.
Meta launched an investigation after a woman said she was groped by a stranger in the metaverse

Well, Meta is Facebook in different wolf clothing so they already are under the ToS according to many who have been booted from it.

I just want to know how the legal realm will handle this if digital hands off no physical contact is present during such an allegation.

Mike all or much of this registry is a type of spiritual covetousness. Its like trying the spirit in much of this game of wits. Actually we all have desires some good and some bad but when pressed into say this safety issue than what is safety.. A life guard of intent. So who knows the thoughts and intents of another.. Law enforcement are creating their own death sentence in this two wrongs don’t make a right. We all have a spirit remember that.

If one hears and listens to these internet induced ordeals that is like leading the witness in all this registry internet downfall. If say they say come to my house or I’m home alone that’s a give away. Even if one is pressed to meet up try to make it on neutral ground.

Although I’m careful not to expose myself too much online. I made a fatal error in asking for help on Facebook to find a contractor to rebuild a fence destroyed by an unlicensed driver from my neighborhood. It’s been 3 months and the registered car owner’s insurance is dragging their feet. I don’t have a car now to do anything, especially going to my medical specialists. So as soon as I listed my post showing the damage and asking for a contractor to contact me for an estimate, the locals that could see my location with the photo of the damage, all exposed me for being on the registry and that my post for help should not have been allowed just because of my status from my only crime 21 years ago. I was already made public on ML 10 years ago, but having to read some of the hate speach was depressing. Now that we must soon expose all online identifiers, I’m working on removing all accounts that I can remember that I have. I’m loosing hope for our future. The punishment is becoming too hard.

Isolation and hardship are the primary risk factors for S.O.s, and all parole stipulations impose that. Employment and housing discrimination are exceptionally prevalent. Even romantic and sexual outlets that are considered legal, healthy, and mainstream are not permitted to us.

So let’s see….They put us on the registry in the interest of public safety. We were the great test. Now they are mandating vaccines in the interest of…..wait for it….,,,public safety. I’m kind of thinking this is our governments new normal. Control the masses with fear and label it in the interest of public safety.

I for one feel so much better knowing the government has my “public safety” protected…..NOT

@ Warpath: Though you may choose to see it that way, the two things are not related.
I work in the field of Public Health. We are in the midst of a pandemic. COVID-19 Vaccines will keep you, your family, friends and community safe.

Warpath, no offense, but your point is off base. But I do recognize you still have the right to express your opinion.

There IS scientific reasoning behind the vaccines to protect the public. There is NO scientific reasoning behind the registry to protect the public. You can’t compare the two for public safety purposes.

I can get seriously sick or die from being in close proximity to a person carrying covid. I can not get seriously sick or die from being in close proximity from a registered person unless that person assaults or kills me.

Because some people will not voluntary protect themselves, their loved ones and the public by getting vacinnated, wearing masks and social distancing, some governments are doing what they can to protect the public.

And governments are trying to get everyone vaccinated so that the virus stops mutating in mostly unvaccinated people so that the virus becomes less severe. And once that happens, people are less likely to become seriously ill or die. At that point life and economies can again become more normal.

Roughly 90 percent of the people dying from covid are unvaccinated.

So it is not about the government instilling fear to control the masses, it is about saving lives and getting economies back to normal with the unvaccinated causing people to unnecessarily die and with the unvaccinated causing a delay in the economy and life returning to normal.

So don’t compare the governments’ promotion of the registry which does nothing to promote public safety with the valid reason of trying to save lives and return the economy to normalcy and having to issue mandates because unvaccinated people will not voluntarily do the right thing to protect their own lives, the lives of their loved ones and the public.

I think of it like a parent telling a child what to do because the child is too immature and/or selfish to make the correct decision for his/her own safety and the safety of others. It has nothing to do with controlling the child but has to do with the protection of the child and others around the child.

The definition of government public safety is the measures to protect the mass and to ensure their welfare and well being.

If the government trying to save lives is not public safety, I don’t know what is considered public safety.

And Warpath, I forgot to mention in my response to you, the so called “fear” you mention is not the new administration creating “fear” to control the masses but instead is the new administration communicating the truth to the public.

The truth is more people have died from covid-19 than WW1, WW2, Vietnam and the Korean wars combined. The truth is many of the covid-19 deaths could have been avoided if vaccinated. The truth is @ 90% – 95% of the people currently dying from covid-19 are un-vaccinated.

The new administration points out the truth in hope people will take covid-19 seriously, not to create “fear” so it can control the masses. Every living president of both political parties (including the prior president) publicly stated everyone should get vaccinated. So this is not a political issue, it is a public safety issue.

So you can spin it in your mind however you want, but your spin does not change reality. I just hope you and your family and friends listen to your medical doctors (and not to politicians) and get fully vaccinated if not already fully vaccinated. I wish no ill will on you and I don’t want you, your family or friends to be part of that 90%-95%.

you drank the koolaid

I am sorry you do not believe in the truth. I only hope you stay safe.

[Moderator’s comment: This thread arguing about COVID is getting off-topic and causing rude dialog. We encourage respectful dialog of issues, not flaming. This thread is terminated]

This is really a false equivalence argument.

We’re a manufactured safety threat based on politicized tragedies resulting in ineffectual and reactionary “laws.”

Covid is an actual pubic safety threat to humanity which …[Moderators note: everyone should refrain from getting into sensitive topics that are not directly related to ACSOL’s mission. Everyone should discontinue this line of discussion]

Last edited 1 month ago by Facts should matter

Are 290s with felony convictions, not on any paper, allowed to contact othet 290 CDCR inmates via letters?

Last edited 1 month ago by Tp

Check your state’s laws. In Michigan, parolees may not contact other parolees or prisoners to the best of my knowledge.

Didn’t read my post… in CA, not on any paper at all. A free 290 contacting and inmate.

I have, numerous times, no issues. I was told while on paper that I couldn’t and to wait until I’m off. Matter of fact I sent Christmas card yesterday.

Disturbing Factoid on Registries: “Besides the 50 states, there are: 1 district (D.C. of course); 5 territories; and 156 nations distributed among 29 states.That makes a total of 212 sex offense registries.” (NARSOL, 18 Dec 2021)

Last edited 1 month ago by TS

Great find! And wow, that is so depressing and demoralizing. This way, there’s no way one can pay your debt to society and then move on. That event will live on forever with no way for redemption or, let alone, healing to become part of society again.

Thanks to SORNA by misguided individuals who rely on bad information/data/stats, it is very depressing. John Walsh should be proud of himself.

Teacher admits recording under Oklahoma student’s skirt and gets prison time, feds say”
I saw this article today, no big deal, we all know who commits the new sex crimes right? What caught my attention was the victim saying “… I was raised my entire life thinking school was a safe place…”.

That right there is the whole root of the fear and aftermath which led to millions of people being oppressed… fear. Unfounded fear. Unfounded fear based on crimes unrelated to sex. Unfounded fears driven by greed… yeah greed… LOTS of greed.

@ LPH: Sorry, I just don’t follow what you’re saying. What do you mean, “Unfounded fears driven by greed.” ???
🤷🏻‍♂️🤔

I have a question.

So my landlord sold the apartment my wife and I live in, they didn’t extend new leases to anyone due to remodeling, but gave us a few months of free rent.

I have a great opportunity to relocate to Nevada, I know there’s a new Tier system.

I have one count PC288.4(b) felony, which was expunged recently PC1203.4. I’ve tried to contact a few attorneys in the area, I even offered to pay a retainer for their time but no responses.

I guess my question is what my Tier level would be there if I desire to move. Im California Im Tier 3, but after reading their statues my conviction isn’t a crime, possibly because age of victim was 17 y.o.

Any advice, thanks.

It is SPECIFICALLY reading news stories …. such as this one, that totally infuriates me. (no matter where it occurs; but especially when local to me). While we-all (and our “supporting” organizations such as ACSOL) are fighting to change the mindset of the public and Legislatures.
And with providing the recidivism rates as being Low etc.
Then …. a currently Registered person commits another (and even MORE horrific tragedy) that is Detrimental to the efforts were striving for (because the public is enraged again) ; and the ultimate “fall-out” that will follow.

Sex offender attempted suicide the day after assaulting, killing neighbor: prosecutors

Yep, that’s something. Some people are simply evil. This is a reason to believe that some people should never be released from prison.

All that aside, let’s consider some interesting things. This shows the Registries were useless. In fact, I’d bet anything they helped cause him to commit this crime (assuming he did it). If the Registries did not exist then this woman could likely be alive.

Another thing is if he didn’t sexually assault her then none of it would have been an issue. Amerika has decided they don’t even have to Register people who do what he did … unless and only if sex is involved. So just leave the sex out and it’s all good.

I don’t see how rebroadcasting these crimes here helps us in any way.

It is for knowledge. We don’t need PFRs pretending these kinds of things never happen.

Also, Registry Terrorists tend to be clueless and unaware of reality. We don’t want to be anything like them.

@ Just the facts: If you follow this website regularly, you will probably note to ACSOL leadership regularly argues that
individuals who have been convicted of sexual offenses are a diverse group, not monolithic, not all the same. This is an argument that we all must keep making so that we can all be seen as individuals….. individual human beings.

A man previously convicted of arson has been appointed as fire chief in his community. Now, it wasn’t without opposition but many considered he had served his sentence, proven himself, and “it happened when he was 18…”

Why, why, why cannot someone previously convicted of a “sex crime” receive any of that consideration? We are blocked and persecuted at every turn; prevented from raising our own children, attending their school functions; turned away from visiting other countries. I’m preaching to choir here.

I’m happy for the guy and 100% believe in rehabilitation and having served his time. Are there scars and memories of what he did? Yes. Has he spent a lifetime atoning? Yes. Can he make his community a better place? Yes. So can I dammit.

previously convicted arsonist named acting fire chief of metro east volunteer fire department

I think it’s great that he has been able to move forward with his life! 👏🏻🤗

Question for all, does anyone have experience ir knowledge about if someone who has been relieved of the requirement to register in California would still need to register on a vacation to Las Vegas?

The relief came from a Certificate of Rehabilitation.

thank you in advance.

This is a legal question that should only be asked from an attorney in Nevada. You shouldn’t trust any advice from anyone who is not an attorney that would defend you.

I was refused a COR in orange county with a 314.1 indecent exposure. I was convicted in 2004 and applied in 2011 and already had a 1203 in place. All I have to

is they do what they want and all this is just slavery to a system they cannot get out of period. I don”t no anything about all these opinions as they mean nothing in the eyes

of this corrupt system of legal hoops that ruin peoples lives.

I wonder if there will be a new table about States, registration, and relief from the registry. That would be most helpful.

Although, it’s pretty scary that one can be relieved from the registry, but it remains live in other states. It doesn’t make sense. Kinda like once a person loses their 2nd amendment rights and then regains it, then they regain in all 50 states and US territories. Why doesn’t the registry work similarly?

Will Allen the bible says the heart is evil. God said, I believe, that settles it! Guess their is a lot of nude beaches or panty raids in all states .. oops …. you guys are bad for my brain function yipes!

Did my yearly yesterday. Still don’t know my tier.

I asked the person helping me and she said the detective is very busily sending letters to those who have requested them when they have come in for their yearly. She said it’s difficult to find out what the tier is from the DOJ so that’s why it’s taking so long. She said they didn’t get much guidance from the DOJ about it.

I told her, “Yeah but it’s now December and almost a full year since it was implemented.” She just said it’s hard and now that I’ve requested it I can probably expect a letter in the mail in the next couple of weeks.

I thought the tier was displayed on my record when they looked me up in the system? I’ve had my offense reduced and expunged so I should be a tier 1 but I’m afraid of what it says. I’ve never been listed on the site and I hear now some of those will be so that’s my fear as well.

Guess I just have to wait.

What was your penal code?

And yeah, the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. It’s why when you go to court they want you to dig up things that show you’re on the up and up, something you’d think the DA would be able to confirm during their background check.

Your registration office should already have the tier on file, whether be it tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, or TBD. I can understand letters may take time, but the classification should be done already.

There should be something on the yearly paperwork too. Otherwise, something doesn’t add up at the particular police registration unit.

Couple headlines caught my eye this AM of which one is legally interesting since we have discussed qualified immunity in this forum before and the other is just head shaking (but not sure it is the first time something like it has happened and discovered):

1) Vermont wants to ban qualified immunity. Success in other New England states is lacking.

2) Oklahoma murder conviction tossed after judge found to be having affair with prosecutor

Last edited 29 days ago by TS

I was curious after reading this article, Prostitution sting nets 26 men, …. if convicted, will those individuals be placed on the Texas sex offender registry? ?
(I have contacted the article’s author in hopes of receiving an answer.)

Not sure about Texas, but I believe that would be the case in CA. CA changed laws a bit ago to now punish the “Johns” rather than sending them on the way and punishing the sex workers.

Montgomery County, Texas (the location of the sting) has been in the news a lot throughout the last decade because they spend more time doing fake internet stings vs fighting violent crime because of the low hanging fruit. This county has put many people on the registry. I was unable to access the article but I presume this was a real sting. If convicted in Texas for prostitution, the offense is one that is listed as required to register.

Thank you, SR and LoveWillPrevail! 👍🏻

So what is fair in the justice system? This teir rating like rating a record or where is the equality? I believe the bible says judge not or you will be judged. Oh its the fairness of the whole ordeal such if someone downloaded something of a sexual matter or someone was out spoken during the encounter which in most cases was fictional and unjust in itself and bias in this safety for all.

Touching on the Convid, Although I took the shot I was against it. In fact I hate needles. Sure they talk about small pox and things of that sort but they never had that in days of old, Maybe a pandemic once in a while. This registry is an injustice type of pardemic and I doubt very seriously it came from a bat as some said. Wonder what type of loose brain matter people use today.

Proving by abusing in an ordeal such as this is like over abusing for authority gain in some popularity gain. So how Carnal is mankind with judgement or was Hitler a choir boy growing up. Hey I believe in second chances for anyone as their is too much garbage in civil law and justice today.

It’s not a justice system but a legal system. Never been about justice but administering the law as written. Justice is subjective.

I liked that answer. And you know your right. Since my computer problems, file association is what I have to use right now to even get on the internet. Administration association? You do have something their and it is all about administrating.

So a cop gets out of line they just fire them or give him a little demerit. I can see this administering justice as a wrong way or one way street and a bit of a real sore spot on all court systems in these ordeals. Talk about equality and fairness.

In case I missed it, when can we see benefits of ALI changes to model penal code 213. Would be nice to see some retroactivity applied in this instance.

ALI holds no direct power but rather influence. Their suggestions may be adapted soon or never.

Talk about berating justice in a lying devil’s advocate way. Administrating a sex ordeal to focus on safety. Guess law can come up with many ordeals to compound mankind. Wonder who’s getting a slice of the pie from those sex sites. Even those sex sites should be abolished. Talk about a scheme of the wickedness vs evil.

This week we celebrate Christmas and on this eve we remember the good and the bad and refresh ourselves that better things are to come. Their is always something good that comes out of something bad if one has hope and believes. And ye shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. Christmas wishes to all!

T
he Bill of Rights exists to protect individuals. It protects the right to free speech, the right to due process, the right to counsel, and the right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment, just to name a few. If a government official tries to deprive an individual of one of those constitutional rights, then the courts are supposed to intervene.
The Constitutional Right We Have Bargained Away (msn.com)

Just watched,,,,,,,,,,,, “searching for justice” on PBS,
It actually was spot on.

I watched the video. Overall, it had some great points. I would like to point out a few things though.

While all three panelists mentioned recidivism, none specifically mentioned the low rate of recidivism by those who commit sex offenses.

Jay Jordan, Alliance for Safety and Justice and National Director of Timedone, mentioned his organization Timedone.org which supports Ca S.B. 731 which specifically excludes those with a sex offense.

(B) A person is eligible for automatic conviction relief pursuant to this section if they meet all of the following conditions:

  1. (i) The person is not required to register pursuant to the Sex Offender Registration Act.

Vanessa Chen, Special Assistant to the President for Criminal Justice, speaking for Biden, mentions the ban the box legislation which states employers can not look at backgrounds until AFTER an offer for employment is offered. That failed to help as AFTER an offer is extended an employer looks up backgrounds anyways and denies employment for whatever reason… you don’t meet our needs, etc etc etc.

Dr. Keesha Middlemass, Associate Professor at Howard University, could have spoken up with her knowledge but failed miserably as she listened 90%, spoke 10%.

It would take hours to fully critique the video, but in general… they say help is greatly needed but either fail at including ALL or mentioning help that is of no help.

Jay Jordan info@safeandjust.org
Keesha Middlemass keesha.middlemass@howard.edu
Vanessa Chen, Special Assistant to the President for Criminal Justice couldn’t find her email

I agree with you 100%,
I was just hoping to make more ppl aware, thanks for the feedback,

From the joint AG response to the proposed changes to the MPC: “Further, the proposed removal of online enticement and crimes related to child sexual abuse material from the registration requirement belittles the seriousness of these offenses and their impact on victims. These crimes are not victimless; they cause severe and long-lasting harm – especially to child victims. Not only do these proposed changes completely disregard the victims of these atrocious crimes, they also leave open the opportunity for those previously convicted of these crimes to hide in plain sight while continuing to seek access to children to perpetrate hands- on offenses.”

So, Internet crimes against children are especially harmful to child victims. This is the utter tripe our government writes.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Even if times are hard, I still want to spread that holiday cheer even if for a day. Hope everyone is safe and sound. Many prayers out to all.

Merry Christmas, all!

Thank you, New Person and “C”!
Yes, Merry Christmas to all!! 🎄🎉🙂

Thanks SR. Just seems since so many AGs are against the MPC change, something could come out of it. In sure if anything happens towards any registry relief, this forum will be the first to convey. Merry Christmas all.

Well, here is something stupid:
Barberton council takes aim at sexual predators, limiting where they can live in city

There was no comment section below the article, so I wrote to the reporter, pointing out the absurdity of the residency restriction as would have had no actual effect on the problem they sought to address. The registrant could live 10 miles from town and still spend every day hanging out at the Lake Anna Park. The “protagonists” of the story seemed very self-congratulatory, entirely unaware of the pointlessness of their newly-enacted restriction.

An unverified story does this. Brilliant.

Oh no, here we go again:

Scientists Have Identified The Driving Force Behind Your Darkest Impulses

“Here, knowledge about a person’s D-factor may be a useful tool, for example, to assess the likelihood that the person will re-offend or engage in more harmful behavior.”

Yes, let’s punish everyone because some may be likely to offend. Maybe they will link up with those administering polygraphs and plethysmographs.

The governor in my state of Texas publicly stated a few months ago that under his leadership the state will stop all rapes. I am confused. If the state has this power, why hasn’t the state stopped all rapes years ago as this is not his first year in office?

Holding those accountable in their workplaces of child sex abuse
People who were sexually abused in Colorado when they were children can, as of Jan. 1, 2021, sue the institutions that hid the abuse or did nothing to stop it. That’s the result of SB21-88, which applies to people, not just those living in the state, who were abused within government entities, schools and private institutions. The law caps how much victims can get from the lawsuit at $1 million from private entities and $387,000 from governmental entities.

SB21-73 is a companion law also going into effect in the new year that removes the statute of limitations for child sex abuse lawsuits, but it does not apply retroactively. Previously, survivors had only six years after they turned 18 to sue their abusers.
At the time of the bill signing for SB21-88, sponsor and state Rep. Dafna Michaelson Jenet, a Commerce City Democrat and abuse survivor, said: “Obviously you can really not ever put closure on sexual abuse that happened to you as a child — I think that that stays with you. However, if we can give them their day in court, their time to build some type of resolution, I think we’ll be doing something really important for the survivor community.”

There’s a great article over on the FAC site. Looks like I may have found a new home unless the rest of the country follows suit.

Please visit the article on NARSOL’s website titled “Equality should be for everyone in New Jersey” and in particular sign the change.org petition.

Yes, there are some pretty ignorant commenters there making ignorant comments.

Politicians holding those hostage who don’t want to be part of it. Blame it on the pandemic but it goes more to taxes and the monies the politicians want for the coffers.

It is also about image. The land of milk and honey who welcomes everyone does not want the image of those who were here wanting out…forever. It is bad marketing just based on the perception, regardless if they were born here and left as a minor to their home country with no choice to do so then. Puts a new spin on the term “anchor baby”…it anchors them here unwillingly.

So how’s this for a New Year’s Eve surprise… I finally got my tier letter. I’m a tier 3.

I had a 288.2(A)(1) felony (it’s a wobbler and I believe the misdemeanor version does not require registration) no contest in 2015. I took the plea because it was the best way to move on. I played their game like I was supposed to.

I terminated my 5 year probation early in 2018.

In 2019 the court reduced the felony to misdemeanor per 17b, at the same time it was dismissed per 1203.4.

I figured I would do my certificate of rehab in 2025 and be done with it.

But now with Tier 3 what happens next? Shouldn’t I be a Tier 1 with the 1203.4?

Also, I’ve never been listed on the public site, will I now be listed? They changed the deal. Not being listed was the reason I took the plea back then.

Is there anything I can do?

What a way to start the new year.

JesusH:

I have the exact same situation as you. You should speak with Chance.

@JesusH

Please contact professional with expertise in the area. Chance specializes in helping post conviction and is well worth the investment to see what your options are.

so am I on the website now?

Can’t be. I tried asking my registration agency back in February for my tier and never heard back, had to wait for my annual in mid December. Finally almost the last day of the year I get the letter. This is BS, no time to fight anything.

I admit I had faith in the system, that no matter how unjust registration is at least I thought it wouldn’t play dirty. One day I’ll get off and that’s it.

If I’m listed now, even if I was supposed to be a Tier 1 and not listed and that’s able to get changed, the damage is done. I’m 4 months into a new job and on Thursday had a meeting with the CEO who said he wanted to build up the department around me and 2022 was going to be exciting. If someone sees me on the site that’s over.

What am I going to tell my wife?

Heck, I even got my firearms back in 2019 after the expungement, if I’m listed will I even pass a background check anymore if I want to buy more?

Disaster.

JesusH – I am not a lawyer and even lawyers don’t seem to fully understand this new law. My take on it is that the Tiers will determine the length of registration. PC290.46 is still the law governing Megans Law and therefore determining which offenses will be publicly listed. If your offense was one that was by law not listed publicly, I don’t see how that would change now. There are offenses that were previously excluded after one filed for an exclusion and was granted such exclusion. That part of the law changed slightly, and some formerly excluded offenses will no longer be excluded. Those exclusions are being rescinded, and the person will need to be notified 30 days prior that they will now appear on Megans Law. Others can still file for an exclusion under certain circumstances. They will still be Tier 3 but not publicly listed if the exclusion is granted again. So, it appears that some Tier 3 will still not be listed publicly, but they will have to register for life. That is my understanding, but again, I am not sure if I am interpreting this correctly.

I’m sorry, man. My heart really goes out to you.
Back when the public registry went live I turned down a CTO position at a well-know bank because I knew I’d be outed and canned. Took a management position at a small shop at a fraction of the salary thinking I’d fly under the radar. It worked for 17 months until a former disgruntled employee got me canned just to cause trouble.
Anyway, I, we all, sympathize and wish the best for you.

@JesusH – it would appear that you were in the same boat as 288c. obviously I cannot confirm that that’s the exact same situation but the way you describe it sure seems exactly the same.

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