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Recording of Emergency ACSOL meeting about new SORNA regulations

 

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General Comments Jan 2022

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For those of you in Texas, a SORNA non-compliant state, I would not worry too much during 2022 @ SORNA. I put together a spreadsheet of the TX law, the Dept of Public Safety (DPS) form where the law allows DPS to ask for more information than the law, SORNA law and the DOJ rules where the SORNA law allows the DOJ to require more information than the law, to determine what changes for TX registrants.

Even if you are notified of additional rules and even if it is determined SORNA and the DOJ rules can apply, which SORNA can’t penalize you for not following if you have a state conviction and don’t leave the state or step foot on a reservation, until the legislature meets again which is not until Jan ’23, the most DPS can do during 2022 is to change the registration form to ask for additional information at your next registration. TX law allows DPS to adopt rules to implement the law, not interpret or expand the law, and allows DPS to ask for whatever other information they want on the registration form that is not required by law. TX already asks for far more than SORNA.

Barring any TX legislative changes, the most DPS can do if implementing SORNA is ask for more information on the registration form and the only new SORNA information that is not already given in TX is: a) info @ owned or operated airplane and watercraft and where you habitually keep those and habitually keep your land vehicles, b) your passport info, and c) non-social internet ids IF you communicate or post using those ids (you already must report social internet ids and all emails and all phone numbers) – just don’t send a message or communicate using those non-social ids so as to not report, example, don’t send a message or communicate to/with your bank through your internet id, just pick up the phone or send an email instead since you already report those and you must communicate or post with your internet id to be required to give.

DPS can ask on the registration form for the temp lodging info, but I doubt they will as that makes no sense to report temp lodging that happened months ago in the past.

I am only guessing, but if traveling internationally, I think you will have to comply with the SORNA DOJ international travel info which is more specific and more extensive vs the IML.

I believe the DPS form in two areas of asked info violates federal HIPPA law and believe TX law already violates the constitution regarding both the collection and dissemination to companies of the internet ids. During 2022, DPS can not change how often you report in person, how often you report a change in between in person registration and how many days before or after a change you must report. So for those in TX, don’t worry in 2022 about SORNA. And if the legislature makes no changes in 2023, well then you still don’t need to worry about the SORNA changes.

Not to sound like a broken record, but can someone PLEASE explain why the “freightening and high” lie has not been debunked yet? It is so easy to prove with all the studies done. It’s like if they are telling us 4+4 is 6, and people believe it. Yet, it is so easy to prove that 4+4 is 8. What seems to be the problem? The whole registry scheme is based on this one idea that was proven to be incorrect and absolutely ridiculous. How can they get away with this 20 years after the fact?

Because law is not academic. It doesn’t matter why the law exists as long as it doesn’t violate the constitution. And by making the registry “non-punitive”, they can get around the constitution. Frightening and High isn’t why the laws are allowed to exist. It’s just the driving point for elected officials to be re-elected to continue pushing “non-punitive” laws against us.

SR – Every time I look at the case, Smith vs Doe, it emphasizes that the registry is non punitive and that it is in the interest of public safety since it’s “proven that registrants have a frightening and high re-offense rate”. I know it might not be the only reason they get away with this nonsense, but it sure comes up ever time. That is why I keep asking, why is it so hard to take that out of the equation? If they can finally agree and see the reality, that the offense rate is actually very low, they don’t really have a good argument about public safety.

One of the Smith factors is that the law have “rational” relation to a legitimate governmental interest. If the rationale is “frightening and high” and you present empirical evidence to the contrary to rebut the “rational” relation, you just switched that ( mendoza-martinez ) factor in your favor for the ex post facto analysis. Infact, factor #6:

“…(6) whether the statute is rationally connected to an alternative purpose other than punishment; and (7) whether the statutory sanction or burden appears excessive in relation to the alternative purpose…”

I think a better analogy is that the world thought the earth was the center of the universe despite existing scientific evidence that the Sun was the center of our system. It took a long while to accept this scientific fact.

The problem with “Frightening and High” false fact is that all the courts have not accepted it is a false fact. Most courts continue to use Smith v Doe, 2003 decision by the SCOTUS as the green light to continue to expand the registry beyond the original scope. A few states have cited that their respective registry schemes have gone beyond the original intent, but none have brought the case up to the SCOTUS level.

Therein lies the problem.

ACSOL is trying to find the best case to bring up to the SCOTUS level as well as to introduce the academic paper “Frightening and High” to deliver the blow that SCOTUS was using false facts, along with identifying all the reasons SCOTUS said the registry will not pass the threshold into punishment, but now have gone far beyond it.

There is an academic paper citing false facts. There is a Wall St Journal documentary citing it false facts. None of these proofs have been entered into SCOTUS to be made true. Right now, the SCOTUS is saying the earth is the center of the universe until it is disproven at SCOTUS level.

It does not matter if it is debunked or not, there are several times where it was used to out benefit, and several times where it was brought up in cases for the judge to ignore it or rule it irrelevent. Many many times people have refuted it in education attempts with individual people only to be called a pedo or a pedo lover because the person was not gung-ho to shoot us on sight. Long story short, NO ONE WHO MATTERS GIVES A DAMN IF ITS FRIGHTENING AND HIGH OR NOT.

Have to agree. Most Registry Terrorists do not care about facts or reality. It doesn’t matter what the recidivism rate is. I think most of them just enjoying saying it is high and don’t have the first clue what it really is or isn’t and more importantly, again, don’t care at all. Let’s face it – the Registries exist to make scumbags feel good and try to prop up their self-esteem a little bit. That is the main reason by a long shot. Money is a distance second.

I don’t even know why we keep talking about recidivism. It’s irrelevant. That should be repeated over and over and over again. The Hit Lists don’t improve recidivism. So it doesn’t matter if the rate is 5% or 90%.

All that aside, this is not a war for facts or reality. Those have been known for a long time. Terrorists don’t care. The main weapon should be emotions. That is what props up the Hit Lists so it should be what takes them down.

Since it’s my day of venting, I have one other thing to add. The court that ruled that the registry is not punishment can really not be certain as they are not living on the registry. Just like I can’t tell someone that they are not in pain just because I am not in pain. Only those who experience the pain (registry) and are directly impacted should really be the judge about whether it is punishment or not. Nobody else knows because they are not in their shoes. With 100,000s of registrants and family members just in California, we need to submit a survey to show that it is punishment. An outsider, like a judge, does not and can not know the impact and the pain it causes all of us.

Someone? So just how subtil does this registry have to be for anyone in this common law justice practice. Isn’t this registry a type of third party in a vain combative effort. Vain justice and blind justice are two different issues all together.

That’s why its so important to stand up, show up, speak out. What more can authority do to one than they have did to many others in this peep show and tell of no true justice in this contra these deceptive ways. So if the ways justify the mean’s than are we all living in a third world justice today. Sure a pandermic is bad enough but a pandemic of justice is a bit more crass.

You are absolutely correct so how do we submit a survey to all registrants, I believe we need “masol” mothers against sex offender laws. Since an offender can’t communicate with other SO’s a wife or sibling has legal access.

We need to share the loss of oppurtunity, humiliation, harassment and unconstitutional laws we have been forced to comply to…….

We absolutely have the right to communicate with one another unless we are on probation or parole and it is a provision of the rules they give to us. California, of course, claims that we cannot access their website on which we are listed. To my knowledge, no one has yet been charged with violating that highly suspect and clearly unconstitutional law nor been charged with violating it. For myself, I make a point of going to the Megan’s Law website and have done so many times. Your risk aversion may vary but, for me, it’s the least level of civil disobedience I can commit.

I see your point yet what I’m saying is we do not know the consequences of the freedoms taken from us so we retreat into our safe world. Remember in

the beginning when frank gave janice his book to read she was in shock over the SO laws! So I imagine the general public would be even more surprised if they knew the hoops we jump thru daily to stay compliant.

When the people at the top turn there backs on us we cannot get justice, as you see when a judge makes a fair decision, and he is suddenly reassigned?

Until we can get thousands to say we have had enough this machine will continue!

“People” who think the Hit Lists are acceptable are immoral garbage. This CA “law” that restricts access to the Lists is just more proof of that. The Registry Terrorists lie that the Lists are for public safety. My children deserve that “protection” just as much as any other children do. Only garbage believes otherwise. How would I provide that “protection” without active access to the magic Lists?

One of the things that I find most infuriating about the Lists is that the Terrorists seem to believe that most people are as dumb as they are. That is a common mistake of dumb people. Thinking that most people are on their level. There is no one with a brain that thinks there is any value in this “no access” restriction. Anyone who has any nefarious intent won’t think twice about violating the restriction or going around it 100 different ways.

So why does the “restriction” exist? Just to annoy people? Just so the liars can brag? Or try to raise their self-esteem a little bit? I really don’t know. I expect the reason it is exists it that they would love to be able to silence all of the families that they are oppressing. I think that is the real reason. They want the oppressed to feel bad about themselves and accept the oppression peacefully.

This aside, I think every single PFR should know every PFR that lives or works near them. You should have a way to communicate with all of them, all at once, and very, very quickly. I’d say within just a few minutes. I’ve always had that and find it very useful. Obviously all PFRs should be connected and organized and fighting against the criminal regimes and their terrorist supporters. They are not our fellow Americans or our fellow citizens. They are enemies.

BA – I am checking into this. I know, someone on another site once did a survey regarding compliance checks, and how it affected registrants and their families. Maybe, we can get a similar survey on the punitive effects the registry has on everybody involved, rather than hearing it’s not punitive from someone who is not on the registry and therefore can’t know the realistic negative effects. The results should be presented to the courts. We know the first hand consequences of the registry, they don’t.

@ BA:. That is incorrect. There are NO RESTRICTIONS prohibiting two individuals# convicted of sexual offenses from communicating with each other.

*However, there may be restrictions IF either individual is on parole or probation.

****

Since it’s my day of venting, I have one other thing to add. The court that ruled that the registry is not punishment can really not be certain as they are not living on the registry.

****

In the Smith v Doe, 2003 decision, you can read the dissenters agree with your thought, but with the foresight of what the registry could become. But those who agreed with the 2003 decision believed that version would be the most extreme version, which was the Alaska version. The registry rules and regulations have expanded far beyond the Alaska version, which was a mail-in registration.

There will be egg on the faces of the SCOTUS whenever ACSOL can re-visit Smith v Doe. The courts believed in people to do the right thing, but it’s very laughable considering the writers of the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights did not believe men to be angels.

Could someone please tell me what I have wrong here?

parsing from California Penal code Sec. 12 – 290.5:

….The district attorney in the county where the petition is filed may, within 60 days of receipt of the report from … the registering law enforcement agency …. request a hearing on the petition. …. if no hearing is requested, the petition for termination shall be granted….

I filed my petition on September 10, 2021. The law enforcement agency (sheriff’s department) responded to the court and the district attorney’s office on September 23, 2021. By any calendar reading, it has been well over 60 days, and the district attorney’s office has not requested a hearing. Therefore, my petition “shall be granted”, right?

Who do I go see?

File a Request for Summary/Default Judgment, citing that the DA failed to respond within the time limit allowed.

Sounds like a great idea, but who do I file it with, I wonder?

The same Court you filed your Petition with. But, be sure to serve a copy of the Motion on the DA and Sherriff and include a certificate of service when you file it with the Court. All parties must be served with all filings. Service of a Motion is usually sufficient by US mail.

They will have 14-21 days (not sure on California’s time limits so check) to oppose the Motion, and you will have 7-14 days to reply in support, then give them an additional 7-14 days for any objections to evidence, and then file a Submit for Decision on the Motion for Summary/Default Judgment.

Then you wait for the judge to decide the case.

Thanks a lot for that info. I really appreciate it. I’ll see what I can get going today.

By the way, I looked into the Utah penal code yesterday. I was considering moving there once I am off the California registry, but that is sure not going to happen! Utah is now much worse than California! Even though I would be off the registry in California, I would be right back on the registry in Utah, this time for life. Also, Utah has twice a year registering, worse presence restrictions, more info collected (internet identifiers, etc.) and stricter timelines (3-day notification if you buy a new car, etc.).

Of course, if California adopts the new SORNA, I guess I would be right back on the registry here with even more restrictions than Utah. 🙁

It’s very unlikely that California will adopt the new SORNA regulations (especially since it falls into the category of “unfunded mandates”, so the Feds aren’t even able to offer any funds to assist in its implementation if adopted.)

John Doe Utah a default/summary judgment of a who raped who or this no reply wait? Interesting in a lot of these types of vain entanglements in many registry issues of a carnal nature. Forgive me but I thought law enforcement was to protect and serve but leading is still leading the witness, now it seems leading the victim by so many means and unjust measures, so somethings faulty in Denmark, California, or anywhere in the States today.

Carnal Knowledge of a teenager. I’ll say it again how can you prevent by perverting justice.So who is raping who?

I filed my petition on 8/20/21 it will be granted 1/19/2022. According to that timetable you have about 1 more month to wait

Congratulations!

What is their excuse for taking so long and not following the law?

When you say, it will be granted, you mean the DA and court did not extend the requirement for more years and you’re just waiting for DoJ official letter?

It is a done deal. The Tulare County superior court granted my petition on 1/19/2022. Just wait for official from DOJ. The first in this county.

@Trapped,

Care you let us know when the courts notified you that your petition will be granted, please? That might help Mike G on being a little more patient or how to go about inquiring about his petition before ruffling up the court system via request for summary/default judgment.

This wait process and knowing what as well as when to expect things could help others become less anxious.

Thanks!

From my understanding reading all the forms it can be up to 60 days at each step. From registering agency to DA 60 days. From DA to Court 60 days. From court to granting or denying 60 days. And more time at any time if they decide they need to do more investigating. 6 months total and mine took 5 months.

Thanks for the info. I’m glad Tulare county’s DA did not oppose you. I hope that bods well. I’m in your next-door-neighbor county to the north. I’m hoping that if our DA was in the thought of denying everything, she would have by now. 🤞

How can we get a survey started on this site? Moderators? Any suggestions? We have enough people to chime in. It can be a 10 question survey, completely anonymous, but it will collect data of registrants and their family members about how their lives are impacted being on the registry and/ or Megans Law. It can cover anything from harassment, compliance checks, hardships due to difficulty finding housing and/ or employment, missing school functions due to presence restrictions, not being able to go on vacations due to other States’ registration laws, etc. The same survey should be done on other sites like W.A.R, NARSOL and any other organizations wanting to voice that the registry is nothing but punishment. We are in this boat, the judges and Courts deeming it non-punitive are not and should not be the deciding factor. Only real life stories can offer a glimpse into how punitive this is.

Good idea there. Was just thinking a little bit ago also about how to get the judges or whoever on it for a week to try prove it’s constitutional. Guaranteed anyone that even tried it for a week will want to be off on the first day

So any word on how 17b and 1203.4 affect the tier system?

I had a 288.2(A)(1) 7 years ago. It’s a wobbler but I got the felony version. I got 17b and 1203.4 in 2019.

I submitted the Firearm Eligibility Check request to the California DOJ soon after and came back clean, so I purchased several firearms and got back into my hobby.

I’ve just recently learned I’m in Tier 3.

Here’s the inconsistency; with reduction and dismissal I can legally answer ‘No’ when asked if I’ve ever been convicted of anything. The form 4473 you need to fill out when buying firearms asks if you’ve ever been convicted of a felony or anything that would disallow you from owning firearms. I’ve answered no. I just recently bought another one and passed the background.

The misdemeanor version of 288.2(A)(1) isn’t even registerable.

So… I can say I’ve never been convicted of anything, can own firearms, am Tier 3. Doesn’t make sense.

I should be glad they haven’t fixed the ‘loophole’ of allowing RC’s to own guns.

Prosecutors have drawn the ire here in this forum forever. Here’s a Op-Ed that echoes that ire by the Criminal Defense Attys Assn (topic irrelevant to the concept):
Truck driver sentenced to 110 years shows hazards of prosecutors manipulating trial system

Just came on here to vent. My husband never touched anyone, conviction was 288.4 (b) in his early 20s but got his case dismissed under the 1203.4. Here we are 15 years later and we’ve been harassed by people on and off over the years because he’s still on the list. One of his ex girlfriends who he met shortly after he was convicted decided to contact him recently via mail (since he’s so easy to find). They had not had contact in about 13 years and he talked on and off over the years about what a nightmare she was. I thought he was exaggerating. I read her letters and I as his wife told him to not respond. She knew he was married and she was writing things to him that were very sexually explicit in nature. “You don’t understand. This b**ch is crazy manipulative.” Whatever. How much worse can this be then the things we’ve already encountered?

Oh how wrong I was in my assumptions. The last 3 months have been an absolute nightmare. She has been throwing an absolute hissy fit all over social media and posting his mugshot and our address all over the internet. We have been under the radar for a long time and have managed to live a semi-decent life and this c-u-next-tuesday has absolutely been OBSESSED with trying to make sure everyone knows about his status. One of his main jobs who he didn’t disclose his record to (he didn’t have to. It’s been dismissed and they didn’t ask) fired him even upon showing them proof his record is clean. I had friends in different neighborhoods send me screenshots she’s posting on our beloved Nextdoor. Friends who didn’t know about his record but we’re gracious enough to listen to our side and came to our defense. She’s also adding extra stuff to her posts like, “HE LIVES WITH KIDS!” they’re his biological kids. Also saying he’s a convicted felon which he’s not anymore, so we’re towing the line on legality here. Oh and you wanna know what the icing on the cake is? The age difference between my husband and his alleged victim was 6 years… The age gap between my husband and his crazy ex girlfriend?? She is 20 years his senior!!! Who was the real predator here?!?

I’m fed up with her and fed up with this stupid freaking list.
He also WASN’T on ML at one point, but they put him on there when they changed the stipulation in the dismissal (I don’t know if that’s the proper way to say it. English is not my first language.)

I’ve seen more than a handful of people on here with dismissals that are still required to be on the website. How can we all come together and fight this thing?

If the emails she sent to him are of a harassing or threatening nature, turn them over to the police and file charges against her. Tell him to NEVER respond to anything she says or writes. He can even file a restraining order against her and if she emails him again she will be in violation and could be arrested and charged.
Just don’t give up and tell him to be adamant about filing charges against her.

Yeah, we’re taking screenshots of everything and building a case. I’m sick of this sh**

DD – I am sorry you have to go through this. What the ex girlfriend is doing seems illegal and should have consequences. As to the 1203.4, I don’t think the DOJ will automatically remove you, but maybe you can petition to be removed from the public site. Someone else on here stated that since ML requires to show the date and type of conviction, if you are listed, this is in complete disagreement with the 1203.4, which clearly states your conviction no longer exists, and you can tell potential employers and landlords that you do NOT have any convictions.

I was really worried at first, especially because one of his jobs let him go, but I’m at a point where I don’t really care if people find out, especially if they aren’t doing their due diligence and checking to see what the actual details of the case are and are being emotional about their decision making. Luckily at his main job, the owners knows and doesn’t give a crap especially since it was a while back and my husband was super young. Do you know what division of the doj he should mail? The megan’s law division specifically?

You may want to contact a lawyer to discuss filing a lawsuit against her for harassment. If you can find a sympathetic lawyer, you may be able to get a restraining order, or some sort of injunction, or maybe just give her a really good scare with a strongly worded letter from a lawyer threatening a civil lawsuit against her.
Her actions are having a severe effect on the stress levels and mental health of you and your family and should be stopped immediately.
Best wishes to you and your family for a successful return to peace and normalcy. 🙏🏻

Yeah we found a good one luckily. I was VERY stressed, especially when people who didn’t initially know started contacting me. Luckily, they were understanding, but I’ve had it happen in the past where they’ll act like it’s no big deal and they slooowly start to tapper off. I’m just numb to it now. I’m hoping we can at least get him off ML soon since he wasn’t on the public site when he was first convicted and a big part of why he took a plea deal. He wanted to take it all the way through to a jury because he thought he had a good chance of fighting it, but he had a shitty inexperienced lawyer. I appreciate the kind words though :). Thank you.

Your story underscores and fully illustrates how the hit list is a public harassment tool and NOT a public “safety” tool. The registry is a magnet for the deluded and deranged to facilitate hate, spite and revenge. .

Last edited 1 day ago by Facts should matter

You know, I really think that we’re turning over a new leaf on this thing. I’ve seen complete strangers on the posts she’s been putting up completely unprovoked being like, “Megan’s Law has been a resource for a long time and there are people actually in our neighborhood with more recent violent crimes. Why are you calling out this specific person? He’s not even in our neighborhood?” other people straight up saying, “Who cares? it seems like an old conviction. Are people not allowed to move on with their lives?” So… It’s been refreshing to see, especially because that was not the response we’d get when we first started dating 10 years ago. It’s just a matter of getting politicians to see, “Hey, no one really gives a f*** about this list as much as you think they do.” but it’s a quick money grab for police and politicians and they always hide behind the guise of “it’s to protect the children!” to make anyone who opposes them look like they don’t care about kids.

Facts! What’s this harassing type of harassment. Guess their is to many elements involved. Sure I will admit that this registry is troubling and yes a good leader needs to Wake up justice. That’s what Janice and her team plus many more are trying to do. Yes when one finely wakes up one can be as disgruntle as Will Allen. with this “hit list” type of tango of oppression Sure all of us on the registry are oppressed and depressed. Even looking for a job today one has to go to that electronic elephant that Tim in WI has said.

Are we all the human guinea pigs to much of this registry type new age ruse to prevent. One can understanding harassing more than someone taking liberties on someone else to try and lead in this conflict. Sure this registry is a dirty job and so is taking true justice away from another by some plea deal. I’m sure there is more plea deals given in these ordeals or even the one’s that didn’t take the bait so to speak. This SORNA thing is a bit more troubling for some also. Those LE folks only look at this registry one way in this day to day nightmare we on the registry go thru. Even the prison time some have had to endure.

What are the stats on the former charge here (which does result in registry participation BTW)? A first time offender in a position of trust…of a horse…
Aiken County man pleads guilty to sexually assaulting horse, distributing child pornography

For those who watch SCOTUS opinions, here’s one for ensuring due process: Court bolsters defendant’s right to cross-examine witnesses

The Atlanta Journal Constitution: Case backlog in Georgia sex offender oversight agency undermines safety.

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime/sex-offender-system-backlog-undermines-safety/VXXFWCDGBZHWDFIIXWYSQPLK2M/

(No icon available to link URL.)

So, if this oversight agency we’re using actual research findings, they could easily exclude most if not all of those whose offense occurred 20 plus years ago.
Why don’t these government agencies, boards and commissions simply do this and cite the research to provide their cowardly a##es with political cover (if needed to appease the pitchfork and torches rabble)???? 🤷🏻‍♂️

The “leveling” is nonsense and will protect/change nothing. I’ve been listed in Georgia for decades and I promise you that they can label me anything they like and they won’t be monitoring me in any way that is useful. Not ever. They can set me at “level 20” if they want. Won’t change a thing. They won’t be able to come by my home more and do extra, do-nothing “compliance checks” even. They won’t even be able to put on their PR stunts. It’s all just a bunch of pathetic nonsense that only truly stupid people fantasize does something useful.

This weekend, starting right now, just like all prior weekends, I’ll be doing whatever I like and the criminal regime of Georgia and their law enforcement criminals won’t know anything, anything, about any of it. They’ll have no clue where I am or what I am doing. That is what their Hit Lists have done for them.

All that aside, obviously this “leveling” isn’t important or the criminal regime could find the $1,000 that it would take to do it. Okay, it would take a little bit more $ than that but nothing nearly close to the amounts that they waste on a daily basis for all kinds of idiocy. It simply is not important. I’d like to think it’s not getting done because 99.999999% of the people recognize that it is not important. But I’m skeptical that they are that smart.

Finished suit.
Here is a link to my finished suit for CA. I am going to clean it up a bit and the get rest of the paperwork completed then file soon.
https://ufile.io/obqzpms2
I need CA case law if anyone can help. Be nice if I could get ACSOL on board with this one this time, but if not oh well. Thanks…..

Just a heads up, I had a hard time dumping the Ufile off my phone,, probably just me.

Did you include these murders in your list of harm to registrants? The murder of Michael Dodele who was stabbed to death in Lake County in 2010. Bobby Ray Rainwater who was stabbed to death in Orange County in 2012. And Donald Crisp who was shot to death in Monterey County in 2013

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