ACSOL’s Conference Calls

Conference Call Recordings Online
Dial-in number: 1-712-770-8055, Conference Code: 983459

Monthly Meetings: Nov 16 – Sacramento, Dec 14 – Phone | details (2020 Dates added)

Emotional Support Group Meetings (Los Angeles, Sacramento, Phone)

CaliforniaGeneral News

Home Compliance Checks

Please post all comments or questions regarding residential compliance checks here…

Join the discussion

  1. sick against unfairness

    I just had a compliance check earlier this morning, 5 AM, before I went to work. It’s the second one this year. Funny thing is that since I finished supervision, no compliance checks for two years. All of a sudden, two compliance checks this year alone. Where is this allowed under the penal code??

  2. someone who cares

    Sick ~ where they in civilian clothing, and did you open your door? Were they polite or loud and obnoxious?

  3. Mad tax paying citizen

    Spent $$$$ on adult supervision. Only had about 5 checks in 3 years. Now that off probation and all paid up with classes completed the local police want to start with a compliance check. BS.. All up to date every year. No law broken. I see that as harassment now..and intimidation. When 2 units and 5 cops show up to your front door. I’m so pissed.

    • someone who cares

      Mad Tax ~ What county are you in? Were they in uniform? That is so wrong and it IS harassment, nothing else.

      • Joe

        A few weeks ago there was a lengthy discussion on this very topic here. Complete with some PD’s justification for these operations per the California Penal Code, and why they are misinterpreted, thus making these checks unlawful.

        Did you read that? Have you followed up? What have you / your retained counsel found out?

        That would be helpful. Stating “…this is so wrong…” on this forum for the umpteenth time – not so much.

    • HOOKSCAR

      I have had these idiots come to my door Dora compliance check for twenty years now. If you are not on probation or parol, do what I do, tell them to leave. Just say “bye” to them. You are under no obligation to speak to these morons. Last check was a couple of weeks ago and all I said was “bye”. They left. No fuss.

  4. TG

    I have had two compliance checks in about 20 years, one at each of my California residences.

    For the first one I wasn’t home and the city police officers took my neighbor’s word that I lived where I reported. The officers did not tell my neighbor why they were asking.

    The last one, the SO guys said they were there to “make sure you’re living where you’re supposed to be living.”

    I said “yep.” and they left without another word.

    • wonderin

      I had a real beauty come to my door years ago to verify me. A real treat.

  5. David

    I’m surprised that it hasn’t happened yet…. One day, an officer or two, will go to a residence to do a compliance check on someone like this, someone at the end of his rope ….. with his life ruined and all hope gone, thanks to Megan’s Law website. ….. and things will go badly.

    http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/06/18/police-involved-shooting-suspect-told-troopers-shoot-him/

  6. Friendly Advice

    California – San Bernardino County. I’ve lived in two cities, Rancho Cucamonga and Ontario. While living in Ontario, never had one compliance check (8 years). While in a Rancho, I’ve had several compliance checks in a 2 year period. During 4 compliance checks in Rancho, I wasn’t home at the time of the checks. During 3 of the checks I spoke with the officers via Ring doorbell. They identified themselves, asked a few questions and were quickly on their way. For one of the checks, they spoke with a family member and simply stated they were doing a compliance check and just wanted to verify my residence. They were always polite and professional. As you can see, each city is different. I’m off of probation and have had my charge expunged since 2011. I’m also not listed on the website. My philosophy has been to be cordial and cooperative as I work towards seeking relief of registration. To each his own. I just wanted to share. Lastly, I’m well aware that I do not have cooperate with their compliance checks nor do I have to answer any of their questions. My only responsibility is to comply with the provisions in the 290 statute which I do. Just remember, to anyone in a similar situation, if you are working towards relief, the last thing you want to do is be uncooperative or do anything that can jeopardize your efforts to come off of the registry.

    • Will Allen

      Obviously you ought to do whatever actions you think are best but I think you are sending the exact wrong message. You are telling them that Registration is okay and what they are doing is okay. Personally, I think any person who is not on probation or parole should never, ever allow law enforcement to get close to them. They certainly should not allow them to come onto their property. That sends the message that Registration is not acceptable and that people will not play their games.

      And I’m not so sure that being “cooperative” will help anyone seeking relief either. When you are “cooperative” you are signalling that their nonsense is legitimate. The opposite signal needs to constantly be sent and reinforced. It should be the only signal that is seen. Then the message will be crystal clear.

      I’ve definitely seen how being “cooperative” can work against people. The people on the other side engage with the “cooperative” person and they realize that they don’t have to negotiate so much because the target person “understands” the “process” and they are engaged and part of it. So they know that they don’t have to grant such people any relief and those people will just keep right on being “cooperative”. They might drop them a couple of crumbs here and there.

      Say that a LE agency wants to do a PR stunt and bring some media cameras along with them for a “compliance check”. What do you think would be better for the public to see?:

      (A) LE goes up to 50 different doors and they treat the people like they are parole. They ask them great, “public safety” questions like “You behaving?”, “Don’t have any child porn in there, do you?”, and things like that. The people show them their driver’s licenses and initial or sign some official documents.

      or

      (B) LE goes to 50 different homes but they are met with walls. They stand outside the walls and use the intercoms to try to contact the people who live there. No response. They leave.

      Which of those scenarios reinforces how great the Registries are and how they are “protecting” the public?

      You can be completely cordial to people without doing just anything that they ask. Not all LE are bad people. When I talk to ones that aren’t, I just respectfully tell them my position. If they disagree and are respectful, I continue to treat them well.

      • ForgivenessWasBought

        I agree with that, I am cordial but I don’t think sucking up to anyone fixes this registry problem.

  7. FedUp

    Has anyone heard of compliance checks in the Butte County or Lake Oroville area? Thinking about registering up there but I am hesitant since I have had no checks in my LA city in the 6 years of my registration.
    Thanks

  8. Sex Offender Truth

    I confirm my name as that is the first question they ask. Then I state that this is harassment and I slam the door in their faces (as they always come in pairs if not in mass).

    I am sick of them and I want them to KNOW IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I am sick of their little game and I do NOT respect them in the slightest.

    Never bow down to these government stooges!

    • AJ

      @Sex Offender Truth:
      I suggest you save a few steps. Either don’t answer the door or if you do, slam it in their faces without a word. If they linger, you could always let them know they’re required to leave promptly and directly.

    • Will Allen

      It’s possible that one or more of the law enforcement criminals (LECs) that is visiting may hate the Registries and think they are unacceptable to decent people. So I hate to slam a door in the face of someone who could be decent.

      If a person does support the Registries, then I prefer that they have a heart attack and drop dead on the spot. But if I don’t know, probably won’t be too rude.

      IF I let LECs come to my door, maybe I’d just open it, tell them to stop wasting my tax money, and to get the F off of my property and stay off. Obviously in some countries, you can’t do even that. But Amerika has not devolved that far yet.

      TGIF. Today and this weekend, I will personally ensure that the Registries are much worse than just worthless.

      • AJ

        @Will Allen:
        “It’s possible that one or more of the law enforcement criminals (LECs) that is visiting may hate the Registries and think they are unacceptable to decent people. So I hate to slam a door in the face of someone who could be decent.”
        —–
        Ok, whoever hijacked @Will Allen’s moniker, please stop…. 🙂 Your consideration and considerate attitude to a LEC surprises me. Normally you’d pin them to the wall because by going along they are part of the problem, and being part of the problem, they’re in your sights.

        But fine, smile at them and gently close the door. (Better? 🙂 )

        • Will Allen

          LOL, I know. But I really need to try to control myself. Because it is completly trivial and natural for me to demonize all law enforcement. But I know that is not right or fair. That is what the scumbags do to “$EX offenders”.

          I know some cops. I don’t think the ones I know are bad people. And I also have to keep in mind that most cops have to do what they are told. They may hate it and even think it is illegal. But they have to do it if they want to keep their careers. Not all cops are t*ats. Just most of them.

          I need to be more fair to people I don’t know. Even though the Registries have given me carte blanche to judge and hate people. I have full permission to do so. If I don’t resist the dark side a little bit, I’ll be murdering people.

        • AJ

          @Will Allen:
          “I know some cops. I don’t think the ones I know are bad people.”
          —–
          Are they leaning on and correcting their coworkers who are? If not, they are tacitly approving of the bad cops’ behaviors–making themselves tainted, IMO.

          I have ZERO respect for LE as an entity, and not just due to RC crap. I’ll spare ranting about it. (It’ll also have to occur over a beer or five…)

      • E @ Will

        Will, you crack me UP. Can you give me a run down of what you did today and are planning for the weekend to personally ensure the registries are worthless? I need some inspiration and want to follow your lead, man!

        • Will Allen

          Of course.

          I’m going to be hanging out and likely sleeping around a bunch of people who have no idea that I’m Registered. I’m going to be talking with them and their children (if I can’t avoid that!). I’m going to be on boats with them. I’m going to be swimming with children (in bathing suits, OMG!!!!). The children tend to try to jump on the adults even! It’s outrageous.

          Point being that I’m going to be doing whatever I like and the Registries have “informed” no one. They are worthless. But what’s worse is that I’ll likely spend some of that time looking at the children and everyone else and trying to see the situations where people fantasize that Registries could help. Where are the illegal opportunities?

          A person could ensure the Registries are worthless by choosing to retaliate by molesting children. People have done that. Or by murdering people. People have done that. I won’t personally be doing anything illegal, but I do daily actions that greatly harm governments and other Registry Supporters. Direct, consequential harm, every day.

  9. Anon

    Seems like orange county, ca sherriff is still doing their yearly compliance check calls…

    -Do you still live at this address?
    -The one I registered at a few months ago in two different locations as verified by my drivers license… yes…
    -thank you. Any questions?

  10. Frank GP

    I had a compliance check in March this year (2019) in Moreno Valley, CA. I did go out and talk to them. The conversation was fine until they started asking if I lived with anyone, was single, seeing anyone, etc. That is when I cut it short and we ended our conversation.
    I own my home, since 2014. Almost no compliance checks until this year.
    They came again last Tuesday, July 23rd, I was not home my roommate answered and let me know.
    They came last night Tuesday July 31st, around 8:00pm and I was home but did not answer so they left.

    Now it is harassment. I am putting in some security cameras this Saturday, so will have everything included. Maybe even audio. I will start keeping a record each time they come.
    Seems I should be able to get a restraining order if they keep this up. Not sure… just something to ask Janice about next time I see her.

    Maybe they are trying to violate as many registrants as they can before 2021 to reset the clock. Or they just have nothing to do. Knocking on doors is safer than chasing criminals.
    -F

    • Gralphr

      Wow….. I’m surprised. I lived in Moreno Valley for five years and not once did they come to my home. My conviction was in 2000, so I dont know if it played a factor.

      • Frank GP

        I bought my house in Nov 2014, and never had a check until last year I think.
        This year I thought maybe was because my registration date was coming.
        But then twice in July is weird. Will see if they keep coming back.
        They are in green, so I think it’s the sheriff. MoVal Police are in black or dark blues I think.

        But once my video cameras are up, then I will know for sure.

        I may just go out and let them no that there are no changes since March when they last came, and then go back inside 🙂

        • Facts should matter

          Be sure NOT to sign any forms or affidavits that usually has your picture on it. Signing It is like an admission of guilt that you’re currently a threat and need ongoing monitoring and tracking. I never sign it and it really takes the wind out of their sails. I don’t exist for their beck and call whenever they come a knockin’

          What a colossal waste of time sending these hoods to harass us. Wonder how much they’re contributing to global warming from all the exhaust they needlessly spew out?

        • Will Allen

          Well, that’s what they want so you’ll probably make them happy. And also signal to them that it is okay to do it as needed.

        • Will Allen

          @Facts should matter:

          Even to purposely allow an LEC to simply see you walking in your yard is tacit approval of their nonsense. Acknowledging them certainly is.

          To me though, these “checks” aren’t really much of a big deal. The actual act takes little effort and is not really bothersome. To me, at least. But, I don’t allow them to ask me questions or be rude either. The problem is simply just the whole concept of it. That is what I find to be completely unacceptable, to the point that I won’t allow it.

          The other thing is, pretty much like everything LECs do regarding the Registries, they can’t even pretend like they have some sense. What the LECs should do is simply stop by, say “hello”, keep their stupid mouths and comments shut otherwise, compare a picture they have to your face, and ask you to sign a simple form that says you live there. Easy peasy. But noooooooo, they are far too dumb for that.

          A great example is that the LECs where I live bring a large form with ALL kinds of information on it (like vehicle VINs!!) and ask you to sign that. When I’ve talked to them, which has been rarely, I’ve told them that I’m not going to sign something like that without verifying every piece of information on it. I’m simply not going to do that. So instead of getting something that would be useful for them, they get nothing. And more contempt and disrespect. They really are just dumb.

          They cried to me before that “you are the only one who gives us any trouble”. So I told them, “I am truly very, very sorry to hear that.” I don’t believe them regardless.

          I’ve told them the simple solution to all their woos though. And that is to do address “verification” with the neighbors. Don’t talk to me, go talk to them. They are the helpless people who need the Registries. So go talk to them and make sure they know I live here, are “watching” me (lol!!), etc. F all of them every day.

        • Lake County

          Don’t ever go out you door to say anything to them! If you are not on Parole or Probation, they cannot force you to speak with them. Nothing good can come of talking with them. There intentions could be good and cooperating is the easy thing to do, but it doesn’t take much for things to escalate into a bad situation for you. Better safe inside your house than sitting in jail wondering what you did wrong.

        • R M

          @Lake County: “If you are not on Parole or Probation, they cannot force you to speak with them.” If someone IS on parole or probation how do they force you to talk with them? If you’re not home… you’re not home. Sure, they probably will call you and even may request you come into the office, etc. No phone, phone is dead, can’t have phone while working? I don’t know, just asking.

    • Will Allen

      I would put a wall or fencing around my home and ensure that I never spoke to them there. Ever. They should spend some time trying to prevent some crime. Or maybe even solve some.

      • Lake County

        I love my large fence, however most zoning laws will limit you to a 3 or 4 foot front fence unless it is grandfathered in before zoning laws took effect. If you put up a short front fence, you will need to keep it locked to protect your rights. Most cities will not allow you to build a 6 foot fence in front which would be required for real protection. A no trespassing sign may slightly help protect your rights.

    • Paul

      Lived in Chino Hills (San Bernardino Co. SO) for 5 years and never a single home compliance check. Just an annual check-in with the secretary at the station.

  11. Anon in Tulare County

    Apparently Tulare County, CA did a compliance sweep last week and knocked on 123 doors. Nobody came to my house last week, but my security cameras show they paid me a visit today, so I guess they are expanding their checks: https://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/story/news/2019/07/24/67-tulare-county-registered-sex-offenders-were-contacted-police/1807233001/

    This is the first visit since I’ve been off probation, and it was very nerve wracking as the first and only time I was arrested was for false accusations, which lead to the DA playing games to force me into a “deal”.

    Is there a database where we can add reports of where and when visits are occurring, and what the outcomes are?

    Also, am I required to open the door for them if I am at home? If not, will they just keep coming to my home repeatedly until I do? I have always obeyed the law ( I don’t even speed), and I’m not trying to be difficult for law enforcement officers, as I know many of them are good people, but I also don’t want to open myself up to being charged again with crimes I didn’t commit.

    • AJ

      @Anon in Tulare County:
      “Also, am I required to open the door for them if I am at home?”
      —–
      No. You’re never required to open your door for anyone. If LEOs have a warrant, it may be wise to do so to avoid having to buy a new door–though they may not bother knocking. As well, you are free to terminate a conversation with anyone at your door at any time, for any reason (or no reason). As I have said recently, in a “knock and talk” drill (which is what this is, legally), the LEOs control the knock; you control the talk.
      =====

      “If not, will they just keep coming to my home repeatedly until I do?”
      —–
      Probably, but I would drop the qualifying “if not” and “until I do.” They will come repeatedly just because and despite any protestations. Again, “knock and talk” is legal for anyone and everyone, even LEOs. SCOTUS has explicitly said so. How you handle such an encounter is wholly your decision. While you *might* be able to ban certain LEOs from your property by advising them to stay away (though this would require talking to them), you cannot blanket ban the LEA from doing so–anymore than telling Little Susie to stop trying to sell you GS cookies means everybody in the entire GS organization is banned from your door.
      Even if you do manage to get a specific LEO banned, if s/he violates said ban, you’ll have to sue for a 4th Amdt. violation. That’s money, time, and energy you may not wish to spend. Even then, assuming you prevail, determining damages can be tricky. Perhaps a fine could be imposed, but that’s probably about it.

      The easiest way to keep them from your door is to move the edge of your curtilage as close to the street as possible. That means a locked barricade, typically a gate. That also means UPS, FedEx, GS, etc., won’t be able to get to your door. But maybe that’s not a problem (especially since packages can be diverted to the companies’ stores for pickup).

      • someone who cares

        AJ ~ I understand that LE is allowed to conduct their so called “Knock and Talk” but absent a good reason, they are singling out a select few, SOs that is. If they were to knock on everybody’s door, sure, that might be ok. But by just selecting that one person, to me that is discrimination and harassment. Girls Scouts will ring the door of everybody in the neighborhood, not just one person.

        • AJ

          @someone who cares:
          “absent a good reason, they are singling out a select few”
          —–
          1) I’m sure they’ll say they have a good reason, as they are using “good policing” and “prudent use of public funds” in focusing on those places that pose a perceived greater risk against public safety than other places. I’m in no way saying it’s right and proper or without controversy; I’m only saying the courts see no problem with it. 2) LEOs will almost certainly claim reasonable suspicion of illegal activity purely based on one’s prior conviction. 3) Is not the roofing contractor singling out a select few? Is not the landscaping company? Is not the home alarm company? Is not the trick-or-treater?

          To my knowledge there is no case law covering the selection process a person uses to decide which doors to approach and which to avoid. All people–your neighbor, UPS, GS, JWs, LEOs, trick-or-treaters–have equal right to knock at any, all, some, or no doors. Sadly, the courts seem to think goon squads in battle gear are the same type of encounter as someone selling Thin Mints.

          A decent write-up about the BS and flaws behind knock and talk:
          https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/legal_features/constitutional_qa_knock_and_talk_police_tactics
          A decent case about knock and talk, showing how movement, or even hushed sounds inside the house, can cause things to go south (be sure to read the footnotes): https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-5th-circuit/1047681.html

        • AJ

          @someone who cares, et al:
          Here’s a pretty decent scholarly paper regarding knock-and-talks that makes a pretty good case that anytime police intrude one’s curtilage to gather evidence (wouldn’t confirming our provided info fall under that definition? It should, since it’s a crime if incorrect) the police have already conducted an illegal 4th Amdt. search. It’s a fairly quick read and though it would be helpful if the reader is somewhat familiar with KY v. King and FL v. Jardines, it’s not necessary.

          I’m happy to say it undermines the thought processes upon which I’ve relied. Will a court of law think likewise, is the big question.

          “Knock and Talk No More”: https://digitalcommons.mainelaw.maine.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1080&context=mlr

          @Janice Bellucci: perhaps @Bob’s recent event (https://all4consolaws.org/2019/07/general-comments-july-2019/comment-page-1/#comment-231492) or some other similar “compliance check” could be used as a test?

        • AJ

          ….then again, the opposite on knock-and-talks (i.e. my long-held position) seems to hold water: https://www.llrmi.com/articles/legal_update/2016_us_v_carloss/

        • Lake County

          AJ,
          But at least JW’s (Jehovah’s Witnesses) will stop coming to your door if you ask them. They will write your address as a “Do not call” on the back of their territory map. Tell them you belong to the Church of Satan and that will make sure they never come back. I’m an expert on this cult if anyone has questions (put in August General Comments).

        • AJ

          Though dated (2006), here’s a helpful article (courtesy of the FBI) regarding Knock and Talks. The article is riddled with footnotes of case law. I’ve read the article, but plan to go over it again with the footnote pages in hand and do some review of the cited cases.

          https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=474206

        • Joe

          I am with @someone on this one….

          Girl Scouts / JW / local tree trimmes, etc:

          start at one end of the street and knock on every door, at the end turnn around and repeat, ring the door bell, wait for response, if no response -> move on, if I yell at them from the back of the house that I cannot come to the door right now -> move on, I cut them off mid-sentence and shut the door -> move on.

          Compliance checkers:

          research and print out subject’s personal details, drive clear across town to a specific residence (possibly in an officially marked law enforcement vehicle), possibly be attired in an official law enforcement uniform, ring the doorbell, then bang! on the door, then yell loudly identifying as local law enforcement, refusng to leave after non-interest is communicated, move about the outide of the residence, possibly contact neighbors discussing personal details, wait (loiter?) down the street for some time, etc etc.

          I don’t know the legal terms but the latter is so not like the former that it is not even funny.

          What @AJ has posted about “knock and talks” indicates they may be be constitutionally unsupported even when there IS suspicion of a crime. In these checks, there is NO suspicion of any criminal activity. They will clearly state this to the registrant. There is no way that this is acceptable.

      • Will Allen

        I think a wall or fencing is the best answer. And just have a drop box there for deliveries. Although it might be dangerous for a Registered Person to have a drop box since criminals might then try to use it for attacks.

        I also continue to think that a person surely could keep the LECs off of your property simply with a properly worded sign. As we’ve discussed, it cannot just say “No Trespassing”. But how about something like, “WARNING: Unless you have explicitly been invited onto this property you are requested to get off of it immediately. Do not approach the home.”? This is still somewhat America after all.

        • AJ

          @Will Allen:
          “As we’ve discussed, it cannot just say “No Trespassing”. But how about something like, “WARNING: Unless you have explicitly been invited onto this property you are requested to get off of it immediately. Do not approach the home.”?”
          —–
          I suspect you’re on the possible right track. Given the phrasing used in court cases, it may be better to say, “implied consent to enter this property and/or its curtilage is revoked.” I’d have multiple signs in multiple locations, including at my door–even though the LEOs will still claim they didn’t see them.

          “Implied consent” is what allows anyone and everyone to march down your driveway and enter the curtilage of the home, even with signs posted and is the phrase the repeatedly comes up in these types of cases. I suspect such a sign still would not keep LEOs from exercising the “open fields” exception.

  12. Cool CA RC

    I used to live in Tulare country there one guy who does all the check. All I have to do is just WAVE.
    Once time I had a SWAT team come over I told them bye I’m here and bye they left quickly .

    now that I m in Fresno country no body even bother me.

    • Mike G

      I had a SWAT team visit here in Fresno County just before my probation ended. They searched all over the inside and outside of the house and somewhat traumatized my 14 yr old (at the time) daughter. We lived on an upper middle-class cul-de-sac and the neighbors were outraged (at me) when team members told them I was a child predator (far from the truth). The pressure was too much for me, so we sold the house and moved out into the sticks (so to speak), away from close neighbors.

      In the twenty years since then, I have had maybe 4 or 5 visits from officers. Mostly they just wanted to verify that I was still living at my current address.

      • someone who cares

        Mike G ~ You said they only came by 4 or 5 times in the 20 years you lived there to make sure you still lived there. Don’t you register that address every year, for over 20 years? Have you ever given them reason not to believe that you still live there? Exactly! There is no need to see if you live there if you do your annual registration. Heck, you could move the day after they come by, so there is never a 100% guarantee you live where you live. Bottom line, if there is no reason to doubt a registrant lives where they say they do, they do not need to come by.

        • Will Allen

          If I was responsible for ensuring that a person lived somewhere I would check a lot more often than once per year. And I’d do it in many different ways. I’d also try to get legislators to pass laws that required Registered People to allow checks. I’d try for sure.

          That said, no one should ever allow law enforement to see them at their homes. Not ever. If that is what always happens, “compliance checks” will stop. They continue because they are allowed.

  13. someone who cares

    AJ ~ Great article on the Knock and Talk. Basically, a knock and talk must be consensual, and the time of day, the persistency of the knock and the reason are most important. In our case, they knocked, then banged, and yelled. There was absolutely no consent to this knock and talk, so they clearly violated our 4th amendment rights. Even with probable cause or reasonable suspicion, absent a warrant, they have to look for other investigative methods if nobody answers the door. If you open the door, they can “peek” in and find something illegal if someone happens to have illegal stuff. So, it is best to not open the door, regardless, but of course, if they keep banging, what do you do to silence them?

    • David

      Bang back on the door – twice as loud – from the inside?? With any luck, you will make them jump out of their body armor and scurry back to their car!! 😁

      • Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly

        Get a remotely activated air horn of the type that watercraft or trucks use. Mount it pointing down forward of and above the front door. When they go loud, you go loud. Make sure to video the whole, lovely scene for posterity. Would make a great addition to YouTube. I don’t think that they have one of those, yet.

        • AJ

          @Notorious D.I.K. / Kennerly:
          “Get a remotely activated air horn of the type that watercraft or trucks use. Mount it pointing down forward of and above the front door. When they go loud, you go loud.”
          —–
          Even better would be getting a tone that causes pain to one’s hearing. It’s usually up in the dog-whistle range of the audio spectrum. Setting up a nasty harmonic in the (empty) skulls would be humorous.

      • AJ

        @David:
        “Bang back on the door – twice as loud – from the inside?? With any luck, you will make them jump out of their body armor and scurry back to their car!!”
        —–
        Or they’ll open fire through the door and windows, with every single one of the Thin Blue Liars claiming they believed they heard gunshots coming from inside the residence…

    • AJ

      @someone who cares:
      Thanks. I found the article VERY helpful in showing the many risks faced when one even cracks open the door–whether or not one has ever offended, and whether or not anything is amiss (if they decide something is amiss based on their “training and experience” they can claim exigency and let you fight it later). Aside from the consent issue, anything and everything you display by opening the door is subject to their prying eyes–whether it’s you, your body language, your demeanor, your possessions, any sounds coming from the house, etc., etc., etc.

      In short people, and repeated by others and me for the umpteenth time: NEVER OPEN YOUR DOOR TO LAW ENFORCEMENT.

      Clearly what has happened at your place is nowhere near what ANYone else (neighbor, GS, JW, UPS, etc) would do–and THAT is the standard SCOTUS has laid out. They are allowed to enter the curtilage and behave like every other citizen that does so. Period.

      As for how to handle the type of interactions you’ve endured, I suspect you’ll need to start having audio and video evidence to pursue a 4th Amdt. lawsuit. Realize that even if/when you prevail, all they’ll have to do is be nicer about their knock-and-talks. Just like cockroaches, you never get rid of them so you’ll have to settle for controlling them as best you can.

      Absent suing, you’re probably limited to letting them know their numbers, attire, demeanor, persistence, and forceful tones rise to a 4th Amdt. violation and you are demanding they immediately remove themselves or face possible legal repercussions. (Or however you want to shove it in their faces.) They’ll laugh/blow it and you off, of course, but if you can document the encounter in any way, you could almost certainly present it to the higher ups in the LEA and/or the city/county attorney. They attorneys will better see the risk the city/county faces. Heck, maybe even supply a copy of that FBI article for good measure. “Here, this is what your own experts say. Doubt me all you wish, but I suspect a judge will have a different opinion.”

  14. Frank GP

    As I commented before in this thread, I had visits in March of this year, and then on July 23rd, and July 30th, both Tuesday evenings.

    The July visits were not answered. In anticipation of another visit, last weekend I installed a security camera system. Reolink $400.00 for the NVR and 4 cameras. They did not show up last Tuesday night, Aug 6th, but I was ready and everything recorded. Regardless, I am ready for any visit. The system keeps 10 days or more of history, and I can now view my driveway, streets, and two cameras from two angles for my front door. All in color, and night vision if needed. And audio. So next time they show, it will all be recorded.
    I can monitor in real time, so the nice thing is that I can watch TV and watch to see anyone coming. I am just trying to decide if I will answer the door. I do have a security door, so maybe I can close that in anticipation on Tuesday evening, and then answer long enough to let them know I am still here, and nothing has changed since March, and good bye.
    We shall see. If they don’t come back, then I am still happy to have the security system. Money well spent.
    – F

    • Will Allen

      “I am just trying to decide if I will answer the door.”

      I decided long ago that the Registries are not acceptable to actual Americans. I also decided that I would do what was forced upon me by law, at the point of a gun, and not one single, tiny thing further. As an aside and additionally, I also decided that I would retaliate for every single, tiny thing that the Registries cost me. That’s a whole other subject.

      So personally, I’m not ever going to answer the door. I’m not going to let them get near my door. I’m not going to let them “visit” me when I’m working, anywhere. They will occasionally leave business cards outside my property asking me to call them or whatever. I ignore them. I’ve told them before that if they “need” anything else done, they need to get their criminal legislators to pass a “law” for it. Otherwise, stay away from me and my family.

      Registry Supporters and law enforcement (LE) want everyone to think the Registries are great and under control. They want people to think that they are “monitoring” the bad guys and “verifying” things. They desperately want that. LE wants the public to think they are doing a great job controlling “$EX offenders”. They love to drag the media along and show off. So why allow any of that?

      What do you think the public would think if they knew that all ~1M Registered Families never allowed LE to get near them? How do you think that would affect the news articles that would be written about “compliance sweeps”? What would the news video of those “sweeps” look like? It would be too boring to air and wouldn’t help their media ratings enough.

      Let’s all decide that the Registries are not acceptable and make that matter.

      • R M

        @Will: I have asked you before to contact me at an email I provided, you didn’t. There are issues going on in Ga right now that are being addressed and I think your input will be well received and needed. You seem to have a desire to cause change I sense; on the other hand, you seem to just reject. Don’t get me wrong… your comments and views need viewing. If I need to tell you the email again, I will.

        • Will Allen

          @R M:

          I’m very happy you are so active. But I don’t contact anyone in real life as “Will Allen”. I also use numerous other names to post comments, e-mails, etc. and interact with people. I don’t contact people in real life as those people either. It is just a way to drop writings as I wish. Some of the names are “nonsensical” (e.g. TheAnswer123) and maybe I should use names like that all the time so that people know it shouldn’t necessarily be associated with a specific person.

          I also do advocacy as myself in real life however. In fact, I might already know you. So please reach out to groups you are working with.

          All that aside, why don’t you post about the GA issues right here? I expect there are plenty of people who would love to see that. And I don’t think ACSOL minds (that it’s not CA).

          Kind of a funny aside that shows the brilliance of Registry Supporters/Terrorists – those people are usually way more interested in “outing” me than they are with any facts, reality, or anything I have to say about that. I can’t count the number of them that have said something like, “We know about you. We know your real name is not Will Allen.” Always cracks me the f*ck up. I’ll often say something like, “No shit, genius”, and start posting again with a different name. Seems to drive them insane so it’s good to do.

          They also like to claim that I’m “hiding” or that the facts I convey don’t matter because I don’t tell their self-righteous, privileged selves who I am (as if I owe those lying scum anything!). So I’ll respond to them that I don’t tell them who I am because 1) they are obviously dangerous harassers and there is no need to put my family at risk from them, and 2) they’d all look more intelligent if they could just at least try to focus on what a person is saying and the facts instead of trying to attack the person. However, I think many of them are not even smart enough to understand something as basic as that. A good percentage of them are truly stupid and can’t help it.

        • R M

          @ Will: “All that aside, why don’t you post about the GA issues right here? I expect there are plenty of people who would love to see that. And I don’t think ACSOL minds (that it’s not CA).”

          I am working on that; I’m not going into details of why it hasn’t happened yet.

        • wonderin

          @Will Allen,
          You mean to tell me you’re not the real Will Allen and there’s some sap out there catching flac for all your disparaging posts. Poor guy probably has ptsd and spending half of his paycheck on therapy and drugs. Probably hates the registry too. Haha Gotta love it.

    • R M

      @ Frank GP: Thank you for watching after yourself. Your camera’s can save yourself if needed. Definitely well worth it.

    • AJ

      @Frank GP:
      It sounds like you have a nice setup going there. Sweet. I, for one, would refrain from answering them in any manner. I would for sure listen and watch what they’re doing.

      Maybe you should install a PA so you can tell them, without ID’ing yourself as their target, “implied consent for entry into the curtilage of this property is revoked. You are hereby instructed to remove yourself from the 4th Amdt protected areas of this property promptly and directly.” They probably will have zero idea what “curtilage” is (remember, some of these LEOs can lift a ton, but cannot spell it), but their ears may prick up a bit at mention of the 4th Amdt. They’ll probably also ignore the command–LEOs don’t like when citizens “instruct” them. What you do after that depends on how much you want to poke the stick at them.

      • Frank GP

        Good advise.
        I can also exit the rear of my house, walk around to the front of my garage (in view of 2 cameras) and just tell them nothing has changed since march, and walk back around through my gate that I can lock behind me. The gate is near the front of the garage so I will just walk back to the rear of my home and go back inside.
        The gate is steel, and 5′ high. Difficult to break into. If they try, it will all be recorded.
        But when the time comes, I may just ignore them and then save the video in case I need it.
        -Frank GP

        • TS

          @FrankGP

          You could always use the line on a PA system “This is God speaking and “implied consent for entry into the curtilage of this property is revoked. You are hereby instructed to remove yourself from the 4th Amdt protected areas of this property promptly and directly.” ” Let them hear that and see what their reaction is. Have a little fun with it!

        • AJ

          @Frank GP:
          “I can also exit the rear of my house, walk around to the front of my garage (in view of 2 cameras) and just tell them nothing has changed since march, and walk back around through my gate that I can lock behind me.”
          —–
          If you do that, it seems to me you’ve squandered the money spent on the camera system. You’ll also be giving them exactly what they seek. Finally, by using that path to talk with them, you may be legally establishing it as a path *they* can use–you’ve essentially declared it a second access point in the curtilage.

          I’m solidly in the camp, with many others on here, that *any* interaction is to be avoided. Heck, even lawyers say nobody should ever talk to police. Ever. And that advice is to “normal” citizens, not nasty criminals such as we.

          =====

          @TS:
          “You could always use the line on a PA system ‘This is God speaking…'”
          —–
          I prefer, “Hello, this is Carlton your doorman…” (This line only makes sense to those of a certain age.)

      • Will Allen

        I love the PA idea but I would avoid saying “curtilage”, lol. I’d try to keep it a lot more simple. How about, “Hello, how are you?”. After any response, then “I have to ask you to leave this property.” They will almost certainly respond with something about what they are trying to do. Then you can simply say, “I’m sorry, no one here speaks with law enforcement so I have to ask you again to leave.”

        They might keep trying to talk but you’d just have to shut them down. I think at some point I’d say, “I’m sorry but I think you are trespassing now. Do you intend to leave?” If they keep screwing around then it would be funny to say, “I’m going to have to call real law enforcement.” And really, I do think it would be pretty darn funny to call like the state police and/or a federal agency and ask them to help remove some trespassers from your property. Perhaps you eventually tell them the trespassers look like law enforcement but you can’t tell and they have no warrant. They do have guns and look like they might harm someone.

        They would surely eventually leave, yes? If they stuck around for too long after you asked them to leave, I think the video and audio of it all would serve really well in a lawsuit. If it were bad enough, perhaps you could even get someone in trouble and/or get a semi-permanent restraining order.

        On the flip side, if you come over the PA and tell them who you are then you will be the complacent, compliant $EX offender who is being kept from molesting children every day thanks to the heroic, effective efforts of law enforcement and the Registries. Then law enforcement will know they can come there and get what they need. And they will in the future when they like.

        Government needs to stay off of my property and away from my family. They are a danger.

        • Political Prisoner

          Or you could tell them that you do not talk to terrorist organisations that disrespect and deface the American flag. (blue line)

  15. Trisha

    So my brother is a registered sex offender and he is finished with probation and community control. Yesterday a cop showed up to do a check and my brother was out of the house enjoying his new “freedom”. I explained he was out and the cop understood and left peacefully. At midnight another cop stopped by to try and check on him. My brother was still out. My two questions is this in central Fl can a registered sex offender get in trouble if they can not verify his address? Mostly cause he has a stay still issue. And two can I get in trouble if they feel this is not his main address as he told them it was? If any one has some insite to this please help thank you.

    • SR @ Trisha

      It’s hard to say if FL has different laws on this than CA (this website mostly deals with CA issues on this). In CA, a home visit is only allowed during “reasonable” hours, usually meaning between 8 am – 10 pm. And the verification of your address is generally only really matters during your annul (or however often you have to register). In CA, there really isn’t anything particular that requires them to do these home checks for people off paper (no longer on supervision), but nothing that says they can’t either since them coming to your door is no different than a missionary coming to your door. Which is why in CA if they do knock on your door, you’re not actually obligated to answer.

      The one issue your brother might have a problem with is if he spends regular amount of time at another home overnight, such as crashing at his buddies place because they often hangout late into the night. In this case, he’d technically need to register that and other addresses.

      As far as you getting into trouble, I think you should be fine as long as your truthful that he actually does live with you. You’re not his parole officer and can’t be expected to actually supervise him. If he disappears for a week, that’s not on you any more than it would be if he lived with a roommate instead.

      Try asking your question at this website. They similar to this site in what they do but are Florida based. I’m sure they’d be able to answer your question much better.

      https://floridaactioncommittee.org/

    • David Whitehead

      The LEOs may not like it, but I believe that in order for your brother to get into trouble regarding the home address he provided at registration, the LEOs would have the burden of proving he does NOT live where he stated he did.
      That said, your brother should be aware that some police department – such as the one where I live – use ALPRs (Automated License Plate Readers) on their patrol cars. As the LEOs drive around, the ALPR photographs the cars and license plates of every vehicle they pass, including parked vehicles. And the ALPR’s computers automatically runs the registration info, searches for warrants, etc, and record where the car was located when it was photographed.
      So, if your brother is actually sleeping at a friend’s house most the time instead of at his registered “home” address and his car is parked on the street out front, the LEOs could easily prove – with the ALPR data – that he was lying about where he was “living”.
      As for your second question, it would be unlikely that YOU would get into trouble – after all, it was he who lied about his home address, not you. But, for cautions sake, if I were you, I would avoid answering the LEOs’ questions as much as possible or have a simple answer that provides very little information to them, such as “He’s not here.” with all other answers being simply “Sorry, I don’t know….sorry, I don’t know…..sorry, I don’t know.”

      *I am not a lawyer. These are just the recommendations from my own experiences.

      • Will Allen

        I’ve actually argued a bit with Florida Action Committee (FAC) regarding this. About philosophy really, not actual facts.

        In the state where I live, the Registration laws say that a person must give the criminal regime certain information. So that is what people do. The laws do not say that a Registered Person (RP) must allow any law enforcement (LE) people to come to their homes, places of employment, or anywhere else, for any reason. So my belief is because Registries are immoral, anti-factual, anti-American stupidity, that no one should ever do or allow anything “extra” and certainly nothing that ever treats Registries as anything legitimate or credible. LE will always try to operate outside of the law. Don’t let them.

        I don’t think ANYONE should allow LE to visit their homes. Not ever. I’ve always had fencing or walls completely around my property and LE knows that I won’t talk to them. I’ve politely told them to go talk to the neighbors if they need something. Those are the people who “need” the Registries so let them deal with it. It is no problem. I’m certainly not going to allow them to bother my spouse or family.

        FAC posted Floriduh’s law on their web site. I read it and it did not say a thing about a RP being required to allow any visitations. So I don’t think people should. I just literally don’t see any need or good that would come from it. But someone subject to Floriduh’s laws should of course read the laws and understand them yourself.

        I doubt that ANY state in our whole country has a law that says that people who are not on probation or parole must allow LE to come to their homes. Can you imagine such a law? How would that be written such that it would not be illegal? Hard to imagine.

        Trisha is worried about getting in trouble herself!! How should that ever be an issue? She should never even be speaking to LE. Simply do not allow them to get near you or talk to you. You don’t have to be rude. Just say, “I’m sorry but I don’t talk to police.” You counseled her to say, “Sorry, I don’t know.” But even THAT is dangerous. What if she does know? You better damn well believe that they WILL arrest her and convict her of a crime. A person who is not Registered should have NOTHING to do with it ever. Don’t speak to police. If you must, just say something like, “I’m sorry, that has nothing to do with me and I’ve got nothing to say to you.”

        Great to point out the ALPRs. A person should simply always just assume that LE is watching you. Just assume that and you’ll be fine. I fully expect that LE would even ask a neighbor somewhere to watch you, video you, and report to them. Some people would love to do that.

        I found your discussion of sleeping at a friend’s house interesting. If I Register where I live I feel like I could visit the same friend literally every single day and I certainly should not have to Register that friend’s home as my residence. It simply is not. And I can visit whomever I like, when I like. It doesn’t make it a residence. If it does, how many times a month might I visit my friend down the street before that somehow becomes one of my homes? Doesn’t make any sense.

        If you are sleeping there, maybe some makes sense. But when are you sleeping? I can go visit a friend every day from midnight to 6 in the morning if I like. Maybe we don’t sleep then. What if I visit him all hours and never sleep? Doesn’t seem like a residence to me.

        Anyway, I think the best thing to do is to establish as soon as possible with LE that you are not going to be allowing them to visit you. If you let them harass you, they will. Then you’ll have to deal with it. Worse case, I wouldn’t worry about them seeing me at my home but I would not allow them on my property or speak to them. There are no good reasons to allow it. They aren’t there to help you.

        • AJ

          @Will Allen:
          A legal expert a few years back posited there are only four words anyone should ever say to TBLs: “I want a lawyer.” There was a case where someone’s (delayed) exercising of Fifth Amdt. rights was used as evidence in court as, I kid you not, tending to show guilt. So, apparently, refusing to talk to TBLs is itself indicative of guilt. With “I want a lawyer,” one is not giving any indication of anything other than wishing to have legal counsel for any possible interaction with TBLs (which should still be zero).

  16. Don’t tread on me

    Michigan..,.. the guy pulls in the driveway once per year. Ask for me by name. I say yup….he drives away. No request for ID or anything. Seems senseless to me. I will bet he makes a good paycheck, full benefits and a retirement from it.

    • Will Allen

      I don’t think it is senseless but I wouldn’t allow it anyway, no matter how trivial it is. Just because.

      If I were in charge of the Registries and people wanted them to be accurate, I’d try to visit people at their homes. I’d do a hell of a lot more as well. Just makes sense. But also, BTW, don’t give these people a pass because they are “just doing their jobs”. They probably like the Registries and if they do, there is no reason to be nice, polite, or respectful to them.

      I doubt that cops anywhere make decent money. But they are overpaid. We all should be working hard to limit their pay, benefits, certainly any pensions, etc. The Registries must cost as much as possible, across the board.

  17. Ron P. (California)

    Had a compliance check just before Halloween. 8 or 9 armed cops with guns drawn bang on my door at 8:30 am. I’m on probation but it put me in a fowl mood, so I got to the door opened it and stormed out at which point they said “hook-em”. They had previously told me to remove my security cams but my PO said that probation had no such policy, now they said if I didn’t comply they would arrest me. So I called my PO (a new one) and he sheepishly said I had to remove them (which I did). I originally come from the UK where cops are tough but not cowards. Granted they are rarely exposed to guns as in this country but they don’t have a license to kill, and they use tactics adapted to the level of danger.
    I’m a 60+ year old flabby, out of shape guy, whose last physical altercation was at age 12. I hate guns and couldn’t hit a barn door with one.
    This whole system seems suspect to me, why should police fear cameras if they are not hiding something? Personally I fear cops more than criminals these days, nevertheless there are some good ones and I respect them because they work in a difficult environment with a lot of aggressive behavior both from people wearing a badge and those not.

Leave a Reply

We welcome a lively discussion with all view points - keeping in mind...  
  • Your submission will be reviewed by one of our volunteer moderators. Moderating decisions may be subjective.
  • Please keep the tone of your comment civil and courteous. This is a public forum.
  • Please stay on topic - both in terms of the organization in general and this post in particular.
  • Please refrain from general political statements in (dis)favor of one of the major parties or their representatives.
  • Please take personal conversations off this forum.
  • We will not publish any comments advocating for violent or any illegal action.
  • We cannot connect participants privately - feel free to leave your contact info here. You may want to create a new / free, readily available email address.
  • Please refrain from copying and pasting repetitive and lengthy amounts of text.
  • Please do not post in all Caps.
  • If you wish to link to a serious and relevant media article, legitimate advocacy group or other pertinent web site / document, please provide the full link. No abbreviated / obfuscated links.
  • We suggest to compose lengthy comments in a desktop text editor and copy and paste them into the comment form
  • We will not publish any posts containing any names not mentioned in the original article.
  • Please choose a user name that does not contain links to other web sites
  • Please send any input regarding moderation or other website issues to moderator [at] all4consolaws [dot] org
ACSOL, including but not limited to its board members and agents, does not provide legal advice on this website.  In addition, ACSOL warns that those who provide comments on this website may or may not be legal professionals on whose advice one can reasonably rely.  
 

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Please answer this question to prove that you are not a robot *

.