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PA: ‘Deplorable’ sex offender’s crime could be considered worse than murder, prosecutor says

With a sentence of 23 to 46 years in prison, sex offender ____ ____ will be incarcerated longer than some murderers.

But in a sense, his crime is worse than murder, according to a prosecutor. …  “I say involuntary deviate sexual intercourse is worse than murder because you’ve got to live with it,” (Assistant District Attorney Pat) Broscius said. “When you’re murdered, you’re dead.” Full Article

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  1. Tired of hiding

    What a load of BS! This is sort of hysteria that politicians use so not surprising that someone prosecutor would parrot the same line of crap however. I am sure you could ask any murder victim which crime they think is worse…what you think their answer would be…wait…you can’t ask them BECAUSE THEY ARE DEAD!

    Think that points out the little flaw in this prosecutor’s argument without much effort needed at all. Give me a break!

    • td777

      Here’s a thought…ask the molestation victim if it was worse than being murdered! My personal guess is that the victim is not going to think they would have been better off dead.

      The “worse than murder” hype has been around for years, which is ridiculous! My guess is that if all victims of sex crimes were asked if what happened to them was worse than murder, the overwhelming majority would say it isn’t.

      • HystericalPuritanist

        though I’d suspect your right about the “majority”, I also suspect we might be alarmed and surprised if we were to look at the suicide rate of victims compared to non-victims. Of course I think there is a snowball effect that speaks more to socialization than makes a direct correlation of the crimes themselves to higher incidents of suicidal tendency in victims might be more appropriate as a matter for specific victimology than sweeping generalizations. eg Post Traumatic Stress Disorder seems to increase suicidal tendencies in its sufferers, if PTSD is a common result of molestation,rape or other sex crimes, the conclusion might be that sex crimes increase suicidal tendencies in victims, but the more logical theory might prove to be that PTSD is the culprit and the disparity is not necessarily a direct result of the specifics of the crime itself. PTSD can arise from any number of events and experiences, it would not be appropriate to consider them all “worse than death.” The best one could logically conclude is that suffering from prolonged PTSD might create a sense of living in a fate “worse than death” to some who suffer from it.

  2. ab

    Stories like this bother me. First of all the guy did not rape the girl, he did touch her or had her touch him. Secondly I would not trust anything the prosecutor says. I could probably go on and on listing every issue I have with this case, but nothing positive will result because there’s no way it would make a difference in the case.

    Molestation = touching
    Rape = sex/penetration
    Murder = dead

    If I had to choose one of those three acts that I would be forced to endure I would choose molestation. Then if that were not an option rape. At least I could move on with life after both molestation and rape. Heck depending on what other positive things existed in life I could probably move on within a few years. Now if I died, all potential opportunities throughout the rest of my life would no longer be available to me.

    What the prosecutor is missing in this case is that the girl is living. Yes her experience with the man charged with molesting her will always be a part of her past, but she does not need to let it define her future.

  3. Austin

    To say that the victim will never be the same or to imply that a victim of sexual misconduct will be traumatized for life is a slap in the face to the victim. Time and studies have shown that a great many victims of sexual misconduct are able to deal with what happened to them and move on – leading well adjusted and productive lives – some people do not have a wish to be a “victim” their entire lives (to the chagrin of prosecutors and politicians) and refuse to allow what happened to them to affect the rest of their lives; by choosing to move past their “victimization” they are standing up to their abuser and refusing to let their actions play any further role in their lives.

    • ab

      You what makes victims advocacy groups, and law enforcement, prosecutors, and mental health professionals even more upset? When a quote unquote victim does not buy into the notion that their experience or experiences harmed them. When talking about people interacting with others or even doing something alone, generalizations can be more dangerous than specifics. Sometimes people get hurt and other times they don’t.

      • Austin

        In our society today being a victim makes one a “hero” for some odd reason, and as such provides endless employment opportunities for those who wish to champion their causes. To me, this kind of posturing is a direct insult to anyone who has been abused sexually. To tell a victim of sexual misconduct that he/shewill forever be traumatized is to further their victimization. But that’s what prosecutors and Law Enforcement would have the public believe because it gives them more power – more ways to appeal to the jury and the public with nonsensical emotional pleas.

        It makes me angry when I see a show like “Law & Order SVU” in which every single victim is portrayed as suffering from never-ending catatonic despair… supposedly even decades after their abuse has ended. Not only does that show misrepresent the truth as far as surviving sexual abuse, it broadcasts inflammatory and alarming statistics such as “… we know that sexual offenders have a 77% recidivism rate…” – EXCUSE ME??? And sadly the general public sees this tripe and just assumes it’s all accurate.

  4. wonderin

    Tired of hiding, ab, Austin.
    Excellent comments from all of you.

  5. mike

    To the lawyer how dare you say that molest or rape is worse than murder, can you bring back my aunt and uncle who was murdered over money and now they are not around to see there grandkids and nephew and yes molest and rape is bad but why don’t you move up the ladder on your own merit, probably because you can’t, I miss my aunt and uncle so don’t tell it’s worse than murder, obviously you don’t know what your talking about, maybe it’s like they say ” you know how to tell when lawyer’s lying? When he’s moving his lips ” things like that just makes me mad.

  6. Tim

    Even a child would infer, essentially, the judge is telling the victim she would have been better off dead. What a way to start off the healing process for the victim. So you condemn her also to a life without hope and reinforce the dogma that if it involves sex, all is lost, both for perpetrator and victim.

  7. Q

    Now I really know we are living in a time where lies become truth by way of twisted people like this clown and the truth becomes a lie. A sex crime can’t be likened to murder because the parties are still alive. Clown girls logic is flawed. Why are lesser beings being allowed to destroy truth and america along with it; Oh yea! Now I remember, people are dumbstruck and will believe anything they are told.

  8. Avig

    Sex or death—which is worse. Give me some time to think about this one.

  9. Doug

    How about the Louisana 16 year old guy who was molested by the two 20 year old teachers, a three-sum. The kid had to tell his friends, The two gals are being prosecuted ,
    I bet he thought he was going to die. proably scared for life.
    Who’s the victims now ?

    • HystericalPuritanist

      Errm..I can’t thumbs up or down your comment because I don’t know if your being sarcastic or what but this sounds like most guys(American) life long fantasy, particularly at age 16. Not that I’m belittling the fact if the person is taken against their will, but In no way would I be able to justify comparing this to a murder.

  10. B

    Jerry Brown, in a veto message this week talked about moral escalation. I think this is what he was talking about. Of course, it is the fashion for law enforcement to speak of every crime as if it was the worst thing they have ever seen. It makes them feel more important. And every military leader talks about the worst threat they have ever seen.

    I feel a little sad for the prosecutor. If he thinks that sexual purity is more important than life itself, it means he doesn’t have much of a life. This is the kind of attitude behind “honor killings” in various backward countries.

    • Tired of hiding

      “If he thinks that sexual purity is more important than life itself, it means he doesn’t have much of a life. This is the kind of attitude behind “honor killings” in various backward countries.”

      I could not agree with you more on this! Narrow minded “values” being imposed on everyone by a few zealots like this who have nothing more than political ambitions or monetary motivations behind their actions…of course, some are actually delusion enough to drink their own purple kool-aid…I am not sure which is worse!

      Just being ignorant or downright evil. Either way they do more harm than good and damage countless more lives than they improve by far!

      • HystericalPuritanist

        I referred to the idea of honor killing of rape victims in a yahoo questions reply yesterday, though I forgot it had a term: “honor killing”. Also I will be sure to make a note of the term “moral escalation” as it is such an apt term to describe whats been going so much lately with the advent of cyberspace particularly relates to bullying,shaming and regarding sexual victimology and criminalization in our societies despite the presumed progress our civilizations have been touted to have experienced.

        I’m no expert but I tend to believe the greater share of victimization for most sex crimes(except for violent forcible rape) occurs not from the actual physical act, but as more of resulting from sex shaming or other socializations, including violation of private personal space an sensibilities, (but those violations are normally not considered “worse than death” though they can be and these can also occur from things that are not even crimes. That these kinds of traumas might occur from a “sexual” act makes them “worse than death” is a reactionary social concept in my opinion and not inherently true and so would require the complex victimology that sex cases are already individually due to determine and probably would not belong in a criminal proceeding itself without some other aggravation being presented(see my reference to hostage/abduction below). I think the legal system in many U.S. states at least are compromised regarding justice by: social hysteria from sensationalism and reactionary indignation/panic from communities they serve , a persistent imperative of most legal system’s to be able to carry out swift economical crime prosecution and the need to identify ways to confer jurisdiction by creative interpretation of human rights and moral obligations. I think statutes regulating sexual behaviors tend to be general and sweeping, and sensationally appealing to the reactionary sensibilities of the population instead of the logical conclusions of legal theories in order to obtain for the state enough power to invade what otherwise would be otherwise be determined to be private sovereignty. If this were not done the state would naturally be left with power only to address violent criminal acts of rape/assault which would not be a “sex” crime (these wouldn’t exist) but a violent act using sexual postures and anatomy as one uses their fists and grappling in violent assault of fighting. If not for the hysteria many liberty oriented societies would not continue to allow the state much access to regulate the normally private matters of sexual behaviors much beyond the antiquated institutions of marriage as they apply to divorce resolutions,tax preparation, and inheritance of property. Most other sex related issues would be manageable just as easily through an establishment guarantees for sovereign personal space, and intellectual human rights(eg rights to not be subjected to sexual harassment or other forms of intimidation, access to determinable consent rights, enter and be held to contracts, and obtain reasonable expectations of privacy/quiet enjoyment of a dwelling.

        Al that being said, I personally think the comparison of murder to sexual molestation and even assault is outrageous, and marginalizing to both sets of victims and their survivors. Though I do see an argument, its not an argument that can fairly give merit to establishing any sweeping legislation or legal precedents that would compromise many basic civil and human rights.

        The arguments supporting the comparison are the territory of individual morality and are greatly effected by spirituality and religious cultivation, and so should remain in the context of case by case examination and jurist deliberation, and actually left predominantly for victims to legally preserve the right to raise as damages themselves and not the state.
        I’m referring to the idea that exists that there are fates many might consider worse than death. One obvious example of such a condition might be in the circumstance of being a victim of tortures, including prolonged anticipation of a violent death or traumatic abuse(this is probably where the prosecutor in the above case was going). I for one believe this concept is in too morally nebulous territory to empower the state with except in extremely prejudiced situations. Such as where the act involves abduction/ being held hostage,brute force or a deadly weapon,perhaps even when threat of bullying,blackmail or defamation is involved against minors or those who are unfit to care for themselves because social character assassination can be emotionally regarded as worse than death(conceptually) by many people especially those with an underdeveloped sense of self worth, or life expectancies this is true I think for a great many modern people especially minors, and so might be justifiable for use of extreme prejudicial prosecution to protected classes. The concept of something being “worse than death” is very subjective, and so is naturally a very dangerous and undesirable cause of moral authority to give to an entity with such sweeping power and impersonality as “the state” without great measures of prejudice being enacted to test each case’s weight against civil and human rights of EVERY party.

        • HystericalPuritanist

          I forgot to make the point that I believe the unprovable “worse than death” argument is also a breeding ground to justify almost any interventionist countermeasure.

  11. Tim

    Whenever there is a shocking case, it becomes an opportunity for prosecutors and others to proselytize their extreme views. What’s worse is the opposite, when a particularly disgusting murder becomes an opportunity to make assumptions about others not involved in the particular case, but share a previous offense. Say, the murderer has prior convictions for, say cp or molestation. Suddenly all offenders with these past offenses become likely murderers in the legislator’s mind, and penalties are increased for these lesser crimes through association. It the rule that one crime represents many and is totally removed from reality. This how penalties for lesser crimes approach those of greater crimes and will continue to increase until the moderating influence of the Constitution is applied and proportionality is restored.

  12. Joe

    Yes, this is what it has come to. A sex offense, ANY sex offense, is at least equal to Murder.

    Please see California Proposition 47 for this upcoming election.

    Petty theft or writing a bad check under $950 will be prosecuted as a misdemeanor UNLESS the defendant has a prior conviction for Murder or is a Registered Sex Offender under Penal Code 290.

    http://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_47,_Reduced_Penalties_for_Some_Crimes_Initiative_(2014) – under “Official Summary”

    And there you have it.

    • Tim

      Indeed, murders occur far more frequently with narcotics and burglary crimes than they do with sex crimes http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0311.pdf
      Murders involving robbery are 3600% higher (~900 average between 2000 and 2009 he) than murders involving rape and other sex crimes (~25). Murders involving narcotics laws are 2200% higher (~550) than sex crimes. Sooo…once again the people get it completely backwards. The relief should go to the group least likely to escalate their crime to murder, such as offenders who have had a sex related crime.

  13. anonymously

    HystericalPuritanist, who I am not sure if he is being sarcastic in his choosing of his name, said “tendencies in its sufferers, if PTSD is a common result of molestation,rape or other sex crimes, the conclusion might be that sex crimes increase suicidal ”

    Other sex crimes, other than molestation or rape cannot be worse than being murdered, worse than death. Because NOTHING is worse than death, including rape and molestation. And especially a hands-off offense, like being propositioned on the internet. But I repeat, Nothing is worse than death. This makes me wonder why DUI (( or any crime that results in death ) offenders whose crimes result in death are not put on a registry which is supposed to protect the public, because death is the worst outcome for a victim. But maybe I shouldn’t wonder this aloud, since Lifelock/ID Analytics is waiting to pounce on any new registries they can make some profit and create a more cyber-fascist world with, and I wouldn’t want to give them any support for this.

    From a different posting, HystericalPuritanist says “justifiable for use of extreme prejudicial prosecution to protected classes. The concept of something being “worse than death” is very subjective, and so is…”

    No it is not subjective. What someone feels is worse than death may not be worse than death. We need an objective standard for something to be worse than death. What a teenager/young adult/anyone thinks is “worse than death” can take on an “emo” quality and not really be worse than death, as nothing is worse than death. Their lives could improve whereas death/suicide is a permanent solution to a perhaps temporary problem. Cyber bullying , as horrible as it is, is not worse than death , even if the underdeveloped brain believes it is. We should not take the standards of the crazy guy from Santa Barbara who felt it was worse than death to have to see happy couples in love and see himself without a girlfriend, so he decided to shoot people and then himself. Elliot something I think was his name.

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