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National

MI: Lawmakers ordered to revise the Sex Offender Registry Act

A U.S. district court judge is giving Michigan lawmakers 90 days to change the state’s sex offender registry law, almost three years after it was first ruled unconstitutional by federal appeals court.

U.S. District Judge Robert H. Cleland issued an order that the law must be changed on Thursday.

The ruling stems from an August 2016 decision by the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati which found that Michigan’s Sex Offender Registry Act was unconstitutional. Full Article

Decision

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  1. Michigan Citizen

    Well there is a new Bill in the House introduced yesterday. HB 4940 introduced by Rep. Miller but only proposes to change a couple small details of the 1994 amendment. Certainly nothing major that we all have been waiting for.

  2. TnT

    Doesn’t surprise me , These politicians are above the law , They do as they please. Shoot they even get away with applying punitive punishment , Sometimes even years after a sentence, Falsely claiming it isn’t punitive for years they got away with that B.s , They have applied these barbaric registries ex post facto to thousands of citizens for years & years , It will Never change un tell we make them comply. They wont even listen to judges rulings anymore. Why???? Because these Judges are sell outs.

    • Sean James

      Look…we have stood by for decades with this unjust system and did little but complain and whine about the injustice of this online registration BS….we have little to show for it …we need to fight back…even at risk of death…but that’ll never happen because one thing the enemy says about us is true..most, though not all of us , are cowards.

      Nuff said.

  3. Punkrocker88

    Early death, disease, cancer genocide, and the registry all are proof that “God” dose not help. Politics are to religious and greedy for them to ever get it done. come on Michigan grow up and fix this f***ing s_&t! I have no faith in anything being delt with right now. Why should we have to wait for a bunch of c#$ks*$kers to do this and I don’t mean acsol I mean the government. They are no different than the Germans in wwll

    • AJ

      @Punkrocker88:
      While I absolutely respect your opinion and whatever belief system you may have, your perspective seems pollyannaish.
      =====

      “Early death, disease, cancer genocide, and the registry all are proof that “God” dose not help.”
      —–
      No, these just prove that life is imperfect and sometimes comes with pain, suffering, and challenges. Were there none of those, we’d be nothing but robots. No red lights; no bad grades on tests–in fact no tests, or even schooling, because we’d already be perfect and therefore know everything already; never a drought nor a flood; never weather other than that in San Diego ( 😉 ); no inventing or improving anything, because (again) lack of knowledge is an imperfection; no ever being wrong about anything; no craps, or even dice, because randomness (especially, ironically, “perfect randomness”) is contrary to perfection. Gee, sounds like anything but the perfect world; to me it sounds quite boring.

      Personally, I’ll take life’s knocks and dings–even though some really suck–because they let me enjoy the other parts of life and occasional triumphs over those knocks and dings. One cannot know happiness without knowing sorrow. In a perfect world, the latter doesn’t exist, which means the former doesn’t either–it just “is.”

      Nowhere in the Bible does God say he’ll make your life trouble-free. (In fact He outright says you’ll face adversity.) Other than perfection, what would you find to be an acceptable level of assistance from God?

      Let’s run with one of your concerns. Why only ‘early death’? And ‘early’ by whose measure? Yours? Mine? I guess *some* death is okay as long as someone has lived “long enough” (whatever that means)? Is death okay, it’s just the timing of it (‘early’) or cause (‘cancer’) you dislike? Then again, if we have death, that means pain for others (loved ones, children, etc.), and some of them may feel it was an ‘early death.’
      And even for death to occur, there must be some imperfection somewhere to get the ball rolling.

      On a side note, even Jesus lost disciples. Besides the obvious one (Judas), consult John 6:60-71. God-incarnate couldn’t (well he *could*, but He’s a gentleman and won’t force His way in) convince every single person…He let them exercise their God-given free will. Was He loving or cruel in so doing? Let’s consider a real-life parallel: how many parents let their kids “learn the hard way” or fail in some manner so that they can become better? Are these parents loving or cruel in letting their children exercise free will?

    • Sean James

      Yep!

  4. Josh

    @Blake……NO, nobody cares…

    • blake

      so whats stopping them from just rounding all of us up and putting us in concentration camps i mean civil commitment if we are all so much of a threat? How about they just admit they want us all shot and hanged. Im sure the public would agree. Ive never been one to say hey ill go to prison for being stupid but im at that point where i just want to not go to the police station and register.

      • Sean James

        Finally! Someone has dared to say here what all of us who are living this nightmare of Online Sex Offender registries have thought for years!! It’s time for us to stand up and say
        “No More”! We are a segment of society that is hated and loathed and have been treated horrifically as a result!

        Our founding Fathers believed that all men were created equally and have certain invaluable rights.

        The American revolution was taught by ppl who’d had enough of tyranny and injustice from Great Britain…ppl gave up their lives to the cause…remember the Boston Tea Party of old…”No Taxation without Representation”” Well…we who have been living this nightmare of unjust retroactive laws have no representation …Why should we stand by and watch this nightmare continue to unfold? We need to say…”We’ve had enough” and fight, tooth and nail…with everything we’ve got. We need to say, “No registration without Representation!” I think it’s a cause worth fighting ..even dying for.

        Don’t you?

        • Tracy

          My husband is a registered sex offender. His offense supposedly happened. No witnesses no DNA the girl didn’t have to testify. No rape kit was done. Nothing was done to prove this ever happened. And this happened before the sex offender registry here in michigan began. So the courts dragged this on for 10 years. When all was said and done. He was told that he would only be on the registry for 20 years. This happened when he was 19 now he’s 50. One year before he was to be off that list. Gov Schneider changed the laws which makes everyone who was on that list stay there for a lifetime. So yes the laws need to be changed. And when a person reports an incident like this better be correct no railroad a guy just because they don’t want to have anything to do with you. And keep changing your story. Just because your sister is involved with a guy and you want him. The person who files a report like this should be held accountable for lying. And actually have the guts to come forward and say the truth. And then put them in a list for liars. The state of michigan has a sex offender registry. Why not have a list for people with brown hair. Or blue eyes. Or who drive drunk. See my point. This registry needs to be gone for go

  5. TnT

    Because….They can , they get away with applying these unconstitutional laws too citizens on false studies and justify applying these barbaric punishment retroactively too thousands of citizens by falsely justifying them by a politician saying they are not punitive. These sex laws in Michigan need very little to convict and punish a man for the rest of his life, not to mention the pain they inflict on almost 45,000 Michigan citizens. But you know whats funny, Michigans biggest problem to our citizens is the government allowing doctors to pound drugs down the peoples throats . Well politicians use these cooperate companies money to support their campaign’s . Its B.s ! Put it this way , when they can take a person in 1992 and convict them with ZERO evidence what so ever , give him 1 to 3 years then , years after a conviction , come and force them onto this registry for 25 years then send him a life sentence halfway threw the B.s they have already forced on him unconstitutionally .What focked up about it is my girl friend opend the mail box one day and a letter addressed to me , I open it and they give me a LIFE sentence ?????? WOW …. they are very dirty these politicians in Michigan, But let me tell you what really sucks , Even a judge cant stop them . They are so corrupt. All I can say is arrange a protest on the steps of the capital building in Lansing . As far as the Aclu goes they been saying the same sh%t for the last 25 years , they wouldn’t even tackle these sex laws in Michigan that from day one were unconstitutional , I called and even talked to them 25 years ago , They like to play ring around the rosie they could have stop this a long time ago , Michigan needs like no evidence to support these crazy B.s laws and if you appeal they use tactical manipulation by telling you they will give you 20 years if you loose your case , its B.s I was told if I appeal it would open my guide lines and they could send me back for 20 years its B.s they force people on these lists unjustly and unconstitutionally. They even made a recapture law in Michigan that will retroactively pull expost facto citizens into there web years and years after a conviction. How do they get away with applying punitive punishment’s retroactively via renegade politicians ????

  6. TnT

    P.s… lets not forget the school system in Michigan…… These politicians are Jack A$$ $ …. They do not care about the children of Michigan … I know , I drive by the public schools in Flint Mi. everyday …. Windows broke out, no air, grass 3 foot high , water all focked up. It so painfully reminds me how they got away with it all ..I was once one of these unfortunate kids. that’s how they got away with it all … poverty and geologically I was screwed from day one to this system. These politicians are dirty . But the people they let them get away with it like we all have, and the Aclu not fighting these laws that allow a state to convict someone with little to nothing , then continue to punish a citizen retroactively and ex post facto , No one should be on this unjust registry because everyone know how dirty politicians are. Hats off to both sides of the parties .

    • Will Allen

      Yep, it is pretty amazing that these criminal regimes waste so much money on their useless Registries. Every criminal regime that has Registries is fiscally irresponsible. In order to fund their Registries, they should try very hard to steal the money from people who actually want the Registries. But most people who want Registries are stupid and I would bet my life that they pay much, much less taxes than even an average taxpayer pays (which isn’t nearly enough to fund big, out-of-control, nanny government). So the criminal regimes will try to steal where they can, I expect most will eventually steal from the people being forced to be listed.

      It is very outrageous just how awful the schools, infrastructure and similar things are in so many places. Yet they continue to waste money on Registries. And it is not just the Registries themselves that are directly costing them. There are people like me who are dedicated to ensuring that EVERYTHING that the criminal regimes and especially their law enforcement criminals do, cost as much as possible. I work hard to keep them all broke and dysfunctional. Because of the Registries. And because the Registries exist, I’m going to make the job of law enforcement in general as difficult and unproductive as I can. The scumbags want a war, I’m going to deliver.

      I also can’t help the criminal regimes or communities in general. When I see a rundown school, I want to help. I would help repair it. But I can’t. I’ll never forget something that happened probably 15 years or so ago where I live. A local law enforcement organization was trying to fund bulletproof vests for their K-9 dogs. I recall they needed like 14 of them. Personally, I love dogs and more than the human officers. I wanted to help. I wanted to buy all of the vests and I easily could have. But I couldn’t and didn’t. Things like that are what the Registries are doing for society. All while protecting nothing and no one. And breeding hate and radicalizing people. It’s the sign of a devolving society. Which is why we have our wonderful mass shootings.

      But hey, don’t blame the ACLU for whatever actions they are taking. If you don’t like it, join them. Give them piles of money. WE are the ACLU. We need to make these organizations strong in order to fight the criminal regimes. Frankly, I’ve thought for a very long time that the criminal regimes should be forced (by us, the voters) to fund organizations like the ACLU and ACSOL. They should be forced to fund organizations that fight their crimes. Instead of these criminal regimes stealing money and giving it to their buddies like the Ron and Lauren Book crime family, Nazi Laura Ahearn, and other Nazis, that money should be given to American organizations. Not crooks.

  7. R388

    Can someone please explain why we have to abide by the law the is demed unconditional if you get arrested for so called “law” then you could sue. If I’m correct. Someone on here knows more about this then I do but I think there is a bunch of stuff you can sue maybe

  8. BigAnt

    Hello Everyone. For those of us living in Michigan, we are all passionate about sex offender reform, and justifiably so. I myself as well as you had many questions as to why only a few bills have been introduced to the house, and I called my congressman. He said that the entire law cannot be changed in one bill, as each part of the law has an amendment, each amendment has to be changed individually. The big chunks of the law that apply to us that have to do with the unconstitutional laws concerning the SORA, are being finalized and should be introduced in the next few weeks. Legislators are well aware of the deadline approaching them, and assure that the laws will be changed soon.

    I know everyone is up in arms about this, myself included, but as we all know, the laws didn’t change overnight, and it will take time to revise. I followed this up with the ACLU, and they also confirmed what I was told. They have another Status Conference the week of the 20th, to give tangible updates to Judge Cleland. Also the brief of the unconstitutionality of the SORA “Ex Post Facto” is a different matter and will be presented shortly as well. The ACLU reaffirmed that everyone should stay compliant, and not to test Law Enforcement.

    I know it’s not the best of news, but it is news indeed.

    • R388

      Thanks bigant for that I really appreciate it so its decent news

    • Joe

      Thank you @ BigAnt for your efforts and informing us with this positive news. I think what is frustrating a lot of us is the lack of updates about all of this, so this is just the way it works. The ACLU is more concerned about getting this done than keeping us up to the minute on the progress, I’m sure their time is the reason. So before anyone presses the panic button, were just going have to be patient and wait for this thing to play out. I know I’m going to try.

      • blake

        i wonder how many people are gonna just say screw it im done or worse hurt people if things go down badly. This is a lot of peoples last chance to be free and have a second chance. I fear for alot of people if the legislator screws this up. Im a juvinile offender and while i agree that the register needs to go i never even got a chance at life to be anymore than what i was labled as a stupid 15 year old. Im sure there are plenty of kids that had their adult life already taken before they even really knew what sex was or what awaited them after 18.

    • Will Allen

      The only acceptable law change is to destroy the Registries completely. That could be done in a month.

      In the meantime, it is critical that all Americans ensure that Registries are even more worthless than they naturally are. And ensure that Registries exist only at the absolute highest possible cost of time, money, effort, and other limited resources. No one should just sit around and allow the Registries to exist. There must be damage every day.

  9. TnT

    ………… More swamp land for sale on the Las Vegas Strip !

    • Joe

      We are so fortunate for the ACLU branch we have here in Michigan. In most other states the ACLU won’t touch their registery. I am so grateful to the ACLU, Oliver Law group, and UofM law clinic for fighting so hard for our rights, were also very lucky to the amazing AG we have in Dana Nessel, such courage to publicly slam the sor in Michigan. Because of these wonderful people I believe we will finally get the relief we deserve!

    • Joe

      We are very fortunate to have the Michigan ACLU fighting for us , most other states aren’t so lucky. I have a lot of respect for their courage to take this on to protect our rights. Thank you Michigan Aclu, U of M law clinic and the Oliver Law group. And also we have a very brave attorney general, that is our side when it comes to the sora. I believe the changes we deserve will take place soon because of these brilliant and wonderful people!

  10. John s

    It’s about the MONEY if the State’s don’t comply they lose a bunch of money.

    States must comply with Title I Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act (SORNA) provisions of the federal Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006, or face a 10 percent reduction to federal law enforcement assistance grants. The act mandates information that must be collected; defines tiers of sex offenders for the purpose of registration duration; requires periodic, including in-person, verification of registration information; requires internet-based information that contributes to a national registry; other related requirements.

    • Don’t tread on me

      It has been proven time and again that the registry is a financial loss. It costs more to maintain and enforce than is received from the feds. Functionally it has zero benefit to keeping society safe and does nothing except cost

      • TS

        @Don’t tread

        Actually TN is making a profit off of it according to calcs I did here a while back when they were the topic of discussion. Between the Feds and what the have registrants pay, they were making money to create, update, and op it based upon the numbers provided. I agree with you that it should be a financial disaster towards ruin while doing nothing positive overall.

    • C

      @John s. You are absolutely correct. Mich was 1 of 5 states at the time of enactment to comply with federal sora standards and received the extra federal funding that the other states said they werent enforcing because it would cost more to enforce than what they were receiving. I’m sure that’s the case and our brilliant politicians in mich do not realize that. You have to know all the numbers to figure out whether or not that’s true or not. Probably virtually impossible if you read the very end of the attorney general’s brief to the supreme court in the latest does case, she states to the effect that she Hope’s mich can still receive that federal funding because the state is still compliant with federal sora standards even though she believes the sora is punishment.

  11. dukester1984

    Thank you for the good news appreciate it BigAnt.

    • BigAnt

      @dukester no worries. I feel the same as anyone else on here. I’ve been on since 1997, was only supposed to be on for 15 years, yet here we are still waiting on changes. They are coming, and as long as the state shows progress becoming compliant with the lawsuit, the judge will allow the legislature to continue making changes.

      Keep in mind, yes they have to change the law, but the law changes are separate from those impacted by the ExPost Facto Class Action Lawsuit. The briefing for that will be taking place shortly as well.

  12. Bobby S. @BigAnt

    Maybe its because I’m just dumb or don’t understand, but what do you mean by. Keep in mind, yes they have to change the law, but the law changes are separate from those impacted by the ExPost Facto Class Action Lawsuit. The briefing for that will be taking place shortly as well. So how does the changes and the expose facto be a separate issue have to do or effect people like me convicted in 1992 and was suppose do 25 years but was put on life registration. I’m pre-sorna, so I should be removed automatically, like many other people.

    • R388

      @ Bobby S . That is a good point bigant what do you mean

    • Don’t tread on me

      I am far from an expert. As I understand it, the entire registry in Michigan has been deemed as punishment and no longer regulatory. Ex post facto application of what has now been deemed as punishment is constitutionally illegal. Anyone whose reporting responsibilities has increased that was convicted prior to 2011 will now be rolled back to your original registry period.

      The second part of the changes has to do with residency restrictions, reporting in person, fees etc. We do not know the details as yet as the MiACLU is still working with the legislative committee for a proposed bill. Michigan kind of screwed themselves when they approved the 2011 SOR law as now large parts of it have been deemed unconstitutional. The problem is the law is so intricate and complicated that to remove the sections of the law that are unconstitutional would render the law completely broken. The have to completely rewrite the law.

      That is my understanding of the situation. August 21st was the states court ordered deadline to change the law but they were given a 60 day extension. The ACLU is working with them to get something done in a short period of time. They have had 3 years to get this right and now their backs are against the wall. We should here something solid in coming weeks.

      Do not expect the registry to go away. If your conviction is old you may get some kind of relief. If it’s more recent you can expect some changes. I believe no politician will vote the registry away.

      Someone correct me if I’m wrong on my assessment of the current effort

      • Josh

        @Don’t Tread….
        Your assessment is spot on…it’s not ever going away and they’ll only end up fixing the minimum amount that they have to, to make it constitutional…..you’re kidding yourselves if you think otherwise.

        • Bobby S. @Josh

          That assessment by @don’t tread on me, sounds correct, but and I know I’ve asked this before, but the pre-sorna people like my self, and you and Bill, and a few other’s on here, I can’t recall their names right now, we should all and any other per-sorna registrant, should be removed automatically correct? or am I read his words wrong. this is all very confusing to me even more now. Thanks in advance.

    • BigAnt

      @Bobby S. What I mean by that is there are 2 rulings that can from the ExPost Facto Class Action Lawsuit. 1- Those who were convicted prior to 2006 and 2011 cannot be held liable for those requirements, and 2- Which effects us all- is that the SORNA as is, needs to be changed to reflect this decision for ALL REGISTRANTS.

      Hope that clears it up

      • R388

        That makes more sense I got confused with what you said sorry

      • Josh

        @BobbyS
        I don’t have any specific inside knowledge or have talked to anybody outside of my lawyers. However, it is their opinion and pessimism that when push comes to shove that our legislators will not vote/approve new legislation or foul up what has already been “agreed” upon. I think @Don’t Tread’s opinion is spot on…with all the complex issues that need to rewritten and unraveled I think the end result is that we are headed back to the original terms of our registration. That being said, I think it bodes well for the 25+ year crowd because if that is the case then we’re done….hopefully

      • Don’t tread on me

        Bobby, to specifically answer your question…. if you were convicted before 1997 you should be released as soon as the new law is enacted. If you were convicted after 1997 and were given 25 years or less but later converted to a lifetime then you will probably go back to your original number of years on the registry. Example: convicted 2000 and given 10 years on registry but in 2003 changed to lifetime registration, you would probably go back to the 10 years of registry. Because 10 years would have already passed you should be eligible for relief from registering. Once again…. this is speculating on what I have heard so far.

        Once again, I am NOT an expert or an attorney. I try to stay up to date as much as possible. Nothing has changed so far. Best advice is to continue reporting and stay 100% compliant until you get a signed by a judge document in your hands. Lord only knows how this will turn out but it is the best news I have heard in a long time. Thank you God!

        • Don’t tread on me

          I also want to add that no matter what the new law consists of, I have little doubt there will be ZERO registrants automatically released. Knowing how politicians think leads me to believe getting released from the registry will still require a legal process. In other words, court documents, judge’s signature etc. Politicians would expect you to hire an attorney to be released. They are slimy that way.

          Just my opinion. Who knows what the reality will be.

        • TS

          @Don’t Tread

          That would be because a lot of the slimy politicians are slimy attys graduated to elected positions, e.g. the DA or ADA. They aren’t going to unlock the door and open it for free leaving as you say but do their best to ensure there’s a check to this balance of freedom regardless it shouldn’t have been in place anyway.

        • blake

          what about juvinile offenders? whats gonna happen with them?

      • Bobby S.

        @BigAnt, Yes that clears it up, thank you, so since I am along with others on here are pre-sorna 2006 and 2011, we should all be removed automatically, while they work on post-sorna registrants, does that sound right.

        • C

          @Blake. I’m usually a pretty upbeat and positive person but when it comes to the sora and how were perceived among the public I’m not very optimistic. The newest amendment to the registry can b found at house bill 4940 is not good. I definitely appreciate the ACLU and their fight for us. they are definitely stepping outside the box and doing what alot of people and organizations wouldnt do on our behalf. I think they can only do as much as the govt allows. I think the tide is changing to a certain extent but until the public perception changes were gonna get the short end of the stick. The govt is going to continue to punish us and drag their feet when dealing with the sora. Take a look at house bill 4940.

  13. Don’t tread on me

    I might be wrong C, but I’m not sure that is a final copy of anything. To the best of my knowledge they are still in committee with the bill. If that is their final proposed bill Judge Cleland is going to have a melt down.

    Anybody else have an opinion?

    • Don’t tread on me

      I actually highly doubt that has anything to do with the final bill we are looking for. It was generated a week ago. That would be a bill that was written to accommodate a constitutional law within a very short period of time. The committee has until I believe Sept 21st to create an outline of a proposed bill and submit it to Judge Cleland and then 30 days passed that to get a bill before the legislature. Bill 4940 does not contain ANY of the points that Judge Cleland referred to.

      Maybe this link to the ACLU press release will help

      https://www.aclumich.org/en/SORA

      Just my impression is all.

      • C

        @dont tread on me. Yes ur correct its not a final bill and doesnt touch on judge clelands ruling. My point is that instead of correcting the existing sora, politicans are wasting time structuring bills to make the sora worse instead of making it compliant with judge clelands ruling. Theres nothing in bill 4940 that has anything to do with judge clelands ruling and to me is a slap in the face because its showing no effort on their part to change the unconstitutional parts of the law

  14. Don’t tread on me

    To me it doesn’t come as a surprise. Politicians are nitwits. They are the most immoral unethical pieces of human trash on earth. Aaron Miller pats himself on the back for being the representative of St Joseph county. It’s a backwards rural area. He isn’t allowed to do anything in Lansing so in order to appear busy and deserving of his job he focuses on easy to pass bills. It still will never mean a thing as Judge Cleland’s order should undermine it all. I’m trying to stay optimistic that this will improve our situation.

    Just my 2 cents…

    • C

      @dont tread on me. I agree I’m hopeful as well but I’m never optimistic when waiting for the govt to help out sex offenders. Were an easy target and have no sympathy from the public in general. Therefore as ur name states, they’re going to tread on us til the public isnt fed all this false information and public perception changes. Were just lucky to b in mich where we have a ruling in our favor and “some” hope. I’m still not holding my breath til the law changes and I’m removed from the registry. Believe me, the state is going to drag their feet and do all they can to not change this law. They’re probably waiting for someone on the registry to go commit some horrendous crime so they can justify not changing it.

    • Moo

      One thing I would put to these politicians is think of it this way…..the numbers they are looking at do not lie, at some point and at some time this will affect someone they know and love. Be it family or friends, someone they care about will have to deal with this somehow. How will they feel or judge then? Say, God forbid, it’s a son or daughter, would they want them to have any sort of second chance? Or live life as a moral leopar trying to get by knowing they will receive hatred and scrutiny no matter what they try to do…..in my case be spat at, told they should be put down like a dog and harassed by people who see a designation not knowing what they are reading other than a blanket explanation. As someone who has done this since before I graduated high school….peers can be awful, thankfully I made it past that point. I don’t have any nightmare stories about law enforcement thankfully but the matter still exists that you can cause a death and get less “time” and the ability to move back in to society and productive. To me the question is will we ever be allowed to become a productive member of society, being jail and punitive guidelines by nature are suppose to “rehabilitate” and let you move on and in our case does not by any stretch of the imagination. I’m not saying this list has no use, simply it should be used by law enforcement to have contact with people who are high risk and present a danger to public….not for people who have made a mistake, had an underage relationship or in my case did something stupid at a young age they hate themselves for..

      • Will Allen

        The Registries have no valid use. Good thing they are not needed or beneficial.

        The Registries do not help law enforcement in any way so it would not help anyone if the Registries were merely restricted to only them. Would they start doing something new or different with their hit list? Really, what? What do they do today that has ANY value at all? I’ve been listed for over 2 decades and their list has done nothing good for law enforcement. It’s done a hell of a lot of damage to them though. I am actually curious what use you think it could be. Would law enforcement just drop by occasionally for coffee or what? Probation and parole are for supervision. After that, no list will do shit.

        And again, I think that anyone who thinks that there should be Registries should be the first person listed on it.

        • Moo

          I don’t know what each person’s individual case involves, but fory situation I was a minor and on the non published list…. Before that I’ve had people spit at me, told I should be killed like a rabid dog….my personal opinion is the list should be done away with as we have gone far beyond sentence vs punishment….if you think they will do away with at least tracking people they deem high risk youre fooling yourself…im 33, delt with this over half my life…I hope relief is in sight but I’d settle with no living or work restrictions….at least we would be able to not worry so much and survive

        • Will Allen

          @Moo:

          Okay. I’m not sure how your response is relevant to what I said. You said, “I’m not saying this list has no use, simply it should be used by law enforcement …”. The only thing I was saying is why are you not saying the list has no use? The list has no legitimate use, so say that.

          I have a real problem when people say the hit list has a use but that they personally should not be listed on it. If a person thinks the hit list should exist then that person should be listed on it.

          Every legislator that voted to create or support Registries or any law riding on them, should be listed on the Registries. Every one of them needs to be listed on the hit list. They won’t be so it is up to real Americans to make sure they are on a hit list and harmed appropriately.

          Personally, I don’t think the Registries are going anywhere. Amerika overall is far too stupid, arrogant, and weak to get that done. Just take a casual look at the War on Drugs and you’ll see Amerika will do stupid for decades, no matter the complete failure and damage. Doesn’t matter if it is counterproductive even. Amerika cares about money and being self-righteous. So the War on Registry Terrorists will continue.

  15. John S

    Well if it happens not to change or get any better, I told my wife I am selling everything, buying a sailboat, sailing it from Michigan too the Atlantic Ocean, once I hit international waters cutting off this lifetime GPS and letting it sink to the bottom of the Ocean. (technical probation violation, 10 month prison sentence Judge amends sentence 60 days into it adds lifetime GPS)
    Good luck getting your $365.00 a year plus your $50.00 plus the $10 grand I owe for your rip off parole GPS that cost you 365 bucks a year? Really?
    I will be siting on my boat drinking a nice ice cold beer far away from all this crap.

    • R M

      Need a crew mate? I have never sailed but am willing.

    • cool CA RC

      are there people actually living in international water? can you live there comfortably?
      maybe I should google this more..
      (edit add information below)
      I guess you can
      https://www.quora.com/If-I-bought-a-yacht-could-I-just-live-on-it-in-international-waters

    • Will Allen

      I love that. I can’t imagine that I would ever accept being on a GPS monitor for any significant amount of time. If it were 100% unobtrusive (100%!!) then I might be okay with it. Heck, I think if the criminal regimes would say that they would take me off of the Registries if I would have a 100% unobtrusive GPS monitor “installed”, I’d go for that. Almost sure I would. But I’m not going to wear something on my ankle that I have to recharge, worry about reception, or whatever. Nope. Not ever.

      I think anyone who is on lifetime probation, parole, or whatever should leave the U.S. and tell them to go F themselves. Amerika richly deserves contempt and disrespect. It is not a moral or exceptional country or bunch of people.

      I had a criminal legislators tell me once I was lucky that they were not making me wear an ankle monitor. I told him he was confused because he was the lucky one with that. I don’t think he was smart enough to appreciate the true gravity of that. Dumb people are usually too ignorant and skeptical until it is too late.

  16. mike r

    Imagine that, months, years later, they are ordered. What about all those that have been waiting for nothing but the same outcome. Prolonged as long as humanly possible by all sides.

    • Moo

      I can only hope this all brings some sort of relief to some of the people on here….im 33, I’ve felt with this over half my life…. drinking mostly, such as tonight….but I imagine a great deal of us do… being a juvenile offender I know the daily hardships combined with the stigma we all face.

      • R388

        @ moo I can relate I have been drinking a lot ever since my teens cuz of the stress and to numb this I’m in my 30s now also

      • blake

        i am to a juvinile offender for doing something stupid when i was 15. I dont understand who feels its ok to impose a life sentence on a minor before they are even legal to have sex? I wasnt tried as an adult yet i got treated like an adult for something that doesnt justify what i have to deal with everyday of my life. its bullcrap and everyone around me that i talk agrees. i just dont understand.

        • Will Allen

          That “tried as adult” is nonsense. I can’t see how that is ever legitimate. But I can’t say I’ve read any significant analysis either about why it might be okay somehow. On the surface, it literally makes no sense to me and it just seems as if the criminal regimes want to have their cake and eat it too. It makes them look even more criminal to me. Like a regime that deserve no respect.

          You said, “I dont understand who feels its ok to impose a life sentence on a minor …”. But you must understand that most people who live in America are scumbags, right? You are old enough to understand that. Most people are hateful idiots. And yet most people look and act decent. But it is only an act. They are good and decent when it is convenient for them. The second it is not, their true core is exposed. Sad truth. People who support Registries are scum.

          But I do think anyone who thinks listing someone on a Registry for something the person did before he/she was say 18 years old does take a really special, extra level of scumbag. Only a real P.O.S. would think that is okay. I think we should identify THOSE people and harm them. And their demon spawn children, the little douche bags in training, as well. Exactly as they do to Registered People.

          Having said all of that, if you think Registries are okay for adults or some people, then you need to be listed on the Registries. I would support that.

        • blake

          I dont think the registry should exist for anyone. AT all. no matter what you do. Thats why theres something called prison and even on that im not in agreement. I think people should get help not punishment. Punishing someone only enforces violent behavoir. SO dont put words in my mouth. IF it was up to me the whole registry in every state would be abolished.IT doesnt do anything for anyone at all. its completly pointless. I do however thing that repeat offenders should get longer prison time. so hate on me if you will for that but i dont think its ok for anyone to hurt children or women or men. Nobody should get hurt. so even if i get off doesnt mean im gonna forget what ive been through because of the registry nor would i ever look down on anyone for any reason.

        • TS

          Have to agree with @Will Allen about the lack of thinking related to tried as an adult. If minors are not capable to think at 17yrs, 364 days about sexual relations, then they shouldn’t be able to be tried as an adult until 17 years, 365 days (or 18 years if you do the math). The regimes do want their cake and eat it too, even if it is round, fried, then glazed with sprinkles on top.

  17. TnT

    Michigan …. Politicians Sucks ! The court system has sucked in 45,000 citizens, in most cases with little to no evidence what so ever & took their liberty and the right to live life free after a conviction , all via renegade politicians who get away with writing amendments to a supposedly nonpunitive registry, then found a way to retroactively apply it too thousands of its citizens unjustly and unconstitutionally, The courts need to stop allowing this to happened . These sex laws need to change , Its getting way out of hand , they are locking people up with little to no evidence and destroying their entire lives , Not to mention the damage its doing to the families of the people of the registries, these registries are unjust do NO good, protect NO one from nothing. Soon the people will have had enough and rise up and destroy those who support these registries .I myself am looking forward to the day this happens 🙂 I know myself its been 28 long years of expost facto punishment almost every year or two getting more and more punitive punishment added year after year , when I was sucked in in 1992 with NOTHING more then hear say for a case against me I was 20 I received 1 to 3 years , then in 1995 came a unjust registry that was applied retroactively after my sentence , Then more more more more more amendments and punishment for 28 long years . all applied after my conviction 28 years ago .A judge never sentenced me to a registry ,But a politician gave me a life sentence on a registry, via mail , JOKE ! Hope shit changes . I know Everyday is a struggle just not going off the deep end , knowing these jack asses took most of our lives away with little to nothing and could careless. Its B.S !

  18. TnT

    P.s … I feel for all the young people they keep trapping with these unjust laws, then labeling them for the rest of their lives as rapest then listing them on a public format for the entire world to scrutinize and shunned by the public daily and expect them to be equal as well as finding work knowing that no one will hire them because of the stigma that comes with being on these public hit list for all to see, with the internet most will be domed to a life of pain and suffering. Its just a bomb ready to go off , the public isn’t any safer from these barbaric registries.

  19. Bobby S.

    Hello,

    I was just wondering if any one else received this email today or tonight like I did, it’s from the MCFJ (Michigan Citizens for Justice) As everyone probably knows, a panel of federal Circuit Court judges in Does v. Snyder I decided that Michigan’s sex offender registry is punishment and can’t be applied retroactively. As part of the same lawsuit, a federal District Judge said that several parts of Michigan’s SORA law, such as the 1,000 rule, are ambiguous, and therefore unconstitutional. This was several years ago and Michigan’s lawmakers have still not changed the law. There is currently a commission that is meeting, trying to come up with a new SORA law. The Governor, the Attorney General, the ACLU, and representatives from both chambers of the Legislature are part of this commission. The Attorney General supports significant changes, but the Governor seems to only want very minimal changes.

    Would you please write Governor Gretchen Whitmer asking her to support legislative changes to Michigan’s sex offense registry? She may be reached at P. O. Box 30013, Lansing, MI  48909, phone number 517-335-7858, or online at https://somgovweb.state.mi.us/GovRelations/ShareOpinion.aspx

    Here are some talking points you might want to use:

    —public sex offense registries have been shown to not reduce sex offenses:
        The recidivism rate of people on the registry is not high, but in fact is among the lowest of any category of crime.
        A public registry can actually increases recidivism [J J Prescott, Do Sex Offender Registries Make Us Less Safe?],
        “Stranger danger” is a myth because 93% of sex offenses are committed by people known and trusted by the victim.
    —Michigan is ranked the 4th highest state for the percentage of its population on a sex offense registry.
    —We who are on the registry, our families, and society are hurt by the onerous regulations under which registrants are forced to live. Perhaps you can mention a personal consequence of being on the registry, such as not attending your children’s school activities or losing a job.
    —Michigan’s sex offense registry is currently unconstitutional. Michigan needs to change its law now or a judge will force changes on the state soon.

    Kathie

    Did anyone else receive the same email?

    • blake

      minimal changes? what does that mean? There is no minimal changes. The whole thing is pretty much unconstitutonal. If i heard right they cant apply life no more because they dont want to do a risk assessment. We can live where we want as well. They cant apply the tier system. The reporting to police 4 times a year plus everything we have tell them was deemed unconstitunial right? am i missing something? How do you get minimal changes from that? Alot of states dont even have juvinile registries anymore. wtf is wrong with michigan? How is their gonna be a bill to introduce if the govenor is having issues? i know alot of typos im really tired

    • Newtothis

      Wouldn’t it be a good idea for all of us to start a letter writing campaign with ourselves, our friends, family, etc. to send letters to state and national government to change registry laws using points very similar to what are here?!

      • Will Allen

        You would think. But people who support Registries aren’t interested in facts or reality. They are interested in how they feel and money.

        But I do think that people who are harassed by the Registries should never be quiet. I know that a lot of people are sick of hearing from me. I know I upset a lot of people. That is a goal. I have no intention of letting them live peaceful, good lives. They’ll pay to my satisfaction or they’ll stop harassing me.

        • Newtothis

          The best way to combat misplaced beliefs that are formed on emotions is through education based on facts. Therefore the only way to get things to change is to do that… therefore, education of the facts to the public, officials. Etc. Needs to occur.

  20. blake

    i am to a juvinile offender for doing something stupid when i was 15. I dont understand who feels its ok to impose a life sentence on a minor before they are even legal to have sex? I wasnt tried as an adult yet i got treated like an adult for something that doesnt justify what i have to deal with everyday of my life. its bullcrap and everyone around me that i talk agrees. i just dont understand.

  21. Bobby S.

    Hello Everyone, I realize this maybe to soon to ask, but has anyone by chance heard anything about what happened on the September 21st meeting, concerning the changes to the registry. Does anyone know if any bill’s were enter deuced, or agreed upon or passed. I’ve tried looking but can’t fined any bill’s that were enter deuced, concerning the changes that must be made soon. Thanks in advance.

    • blake

      so whats going on? I thought ann was going to tell us whats going on with the bill yesterday? She said that the legislator were going to vote on it wensday. Does anyone have any clue on whats going on?

  22. R388

    Ya what is going on I would like to know also I hate how we are left in the dark

    • Bobby S.

      Just a quick question has anyone tried to log on the the registry today. I keep getting down for maintenance message. Now it’s either actually down for maintenance, big time wishful thinking they are making changes to the registry or Cleland shut it down lol.

  23. Brandon

    Yes, I would like to know as-well. Seems like nobody has any info. Left in the dark again!

  24. Bobby S.

    Hello,
    Just wondering has anyone tried to login to the registry today? I’ve been trying most of the day and keep getting a message under maintenance, either it’s actually under maintenance, or wishful thinking they are making changes to the registry, or Cleland shut it down till the changes are made lol.

    Also has anyone heard anything on the meeting they were suppose to have every 30 days, or anything on the bill’s that were up for consideration this week. Thanks in advance.

    • C

      Bobby s. yes I logged in this morning. Wishful thinking on ur part. They do that occasionally. Who knows the process they will do if they have to start removing names from it but I’m sure it will b at the last minute

    • C

      Bobby s. Also the state police are probably going to have to send out letters to all people being removed to make it official. I’m not exactly sure on that tho. I’ve heard that you should continue to report until u receive notification from the state police

  25. TnT

    @ bobby …yes its down . Hope its burning to the ground as we speak . 🙂

    • blake

      its down still. I think they are getting ready to let alot of people off.

      • C

        The michigan legislative database is also undergoing updates. Do u think they shut that down too so they can remove people from registry. Lol Also why everyone flipping out cuz ann hasnt come with an update on the hearings. Lmao. Who is ann?

        • Will Allen

          Yes, it would take an amazingly poor design to require the Registry website to be down in order to remove people. So that was all kind of funny (sorry). But frankly, as far as websites and databases go, I’m not sure they could get much easier than the Registries are so it is funny that the site needs to ever be down for anything. In this day, it is pretty trivial to create such a site that does not need to be down. Of course, we are talking about big government though and their legendary incompetence.

          How could the criminal regime of Michigan ever allow their Registry website to be down? Think of all of the children that they put in danger!! So irresponsible.

          @Ann is someone who apparently talks with one of the legislators of the criminal regime of Michigan. However, she thinks there should be Registries so I don’t think anyone should be paying any attention to her other than figuring out how to counter her harassment and mistakes. She is just another harasser.

          You can read here how she thinks many of you belong on the Registries: https://all4consolaws.org/2019/08/mi-aclu-michigan-attorney-advocates-end-of-registry-provides-update-on-6th-circuit-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-234994. And you can read in the replies how she is wrong.

  26. Guy

    Site is back up and running. I pulled up my name and it didn’t show my name for the first 4 times but then it popped up again.

    • Josh

      @All in Michigan…..the site was just undergoing routine maintenance. Just know that without a order from Judge Cleland and the fact that our legislation hasn’t even been introduced yet, that none of us are getting off that list anytime soon. If you thought the state of Michigan was just going to start arbitrarily removing us then you’re all nuts….I’m going to admit to being a little curious about what @Ann is going to report although I’m dubious that her state rep would be willing to divulge all that information to a constituent. As usual, I hope I’m wrong…..

      • Don’t tread on me

        Maybe I have become very cynical and a touch paranoid but….. who is Ann?

        • Josh

          @Don’t Tread….@Ann is a somewhat regular poster on this site who passed on some information supposedly obtained from her state legislator. That information was that the new legislation would be introduced this week and that she would provide a update as well as the answers to questions that she was going to submit to her legislator that were provided by other contributors on this forum. It’s been radio silence so far from Ann. Hope that answers your question

        • Will Allen

          Just search for “Ann” in the comments above yours and you’ll see that she thinks Registries are okay, just as long as the “right” people are listed on them.

        • Don’t tread on me

          I guess I was beginning to question Ann when I saw she held a belief that there were “Some” people that belonged on a list… I do not believe there is ANY justification for a government controlled list of its citizens. Zero…zilch…nada…

  27. Mario

    Does anybody have any positive updates with the new Bill’s, besides will allen? Also @Will Allen, if Michigan’s legislature hasn’t put forth any changes yet, wouldn’t it be a waste of @Ann’s time to periodically say, “well still no progress but at least ya’ll have been updated?” I like you am looking forward to the new laws being introduced, but slamming @Ann will do nobody any good. We have enough hate going against RO’s all over the world let’s not keep that going. We should all be eager to hear back from @Ann since she has at least taken steps to make her State Representative listen.

    • Will Allen

      I’m not waiting on anything in Michigan. I don’t live there. It doesn’t matter to me if @Ann ever reports anything else or not. My problem with her is that she apparently thinks Registries are acceptable. And EVERYONE should be attacking anyone who believes that. If she does not believe that then I will apologize. Otherwise, I hope she and everyone else who thinks that Registries are acceptable remains listed on them.

  28. TnT

    @s quiet as a house mouse on Christmas eve ….. Was just looking on the states website, looks as if they are fast to interduce more B.s amendments to the unconstitutional registry…But nothing introduced too fix their unconstitutional registry …. Very typical of corrupt politicians .

    • J

      @TnT——-
      The reason it’s quiet is because they are preoccupied with the budget battle that has been going on between the Governor and Republicans. There is a chance that they could shut down the government on October 1. If that were to happen then I would guess that our legislation will be pushed back further still.

    • C

      TNT. What new Bill’s were introduced that we dont know about.

    • R388

      @ TNT hey do you or anyone else think we all should talk to lawyers about this. Maybe it would a good idea???

  29. JohnDoeUtah

    Does anyone have the list of studies used in Snyder to fight the “frightening and high” argument?

    • R388

      @ JohnDoeUtah no i don’t sorry

    • AJ

      @JohnDoeUtah:
      “Does anyone have the list of studies used in Snyder to fight the “frightening and high” argument?”
      —–
      Are they maybe available via PACER, either via the 6th CCoA docket or the EDMI docket? I wouldn’t expect them to be sealed documents, so they should be somewhere in the ECF list. I’d start with the EDMI docket. Or you could throw yourself on the mercy of ACLU-MI and see if they will send you links or PDFs.

  30. TnT

    @ .. R388.…. I myself would but cant afford one, I know if I had the money, I would have already had a lawyer working on it . Waiting on these Jack A$$e$ you will most likely be 28 years in like me . When my original sentence was in 1993 and they applied this life of punishment after my sentence . As well as thousands of others in my position, That’s how they get away with this B.s … They mostly apply these laws too people who cant afford too fight them or we wouldn’t be on this unconstitutional list . If I had the cash , I wouldn’t be on here today, like 80 percent of us the state and courts target the poor and unprivileged that’s how they get away with these registries .

  31. TnT

    P.s ….. Its I known fact even the Detroit Free Press news papers stated , In Michigan it all depends if you have money or not is whether you stay on their unconstitutional hit list or get off it . Many people who have fought threw court and no longer on the list , its a shame how they get away with this .The state of Michigan court system takes advantage of the poor, we do not get the same rights as the privleged and well off .

  32. R388

    This is getting stupid how they can do what ever they want. I don’t know if I can deal with this anymore. I am going to try to talk to a lawyer and see what they say

  33. TnT

    @ R388 …. I know a lot of folks on here suggest being patient , Well I know 28 years is patient enough. Especially when I was sentence to 1 to 3 years on straight up B.s not one spec of evidence, I am sure that’s the fact with most of us . These laws in Michigan are like spider webs they suck in the unexpected and once your in the web your F%%ked .They donnt need sh!t to convict , most cases there isn’t even a time or day. These politicians write these unconstitutional laws and the poor get sucked in by the thousands . They had 100 times more proof on Brett Kavanaugh n Donald Trump then they ever had against me . They got money is the only difference here . Its a game they play with the unprivileged. Hang the poor.. free the dirty rich . Good Luck my friend I hope your lawyer slaps them silly . They need a few large law suits slapped on their A$$ then maybe they will stop destroying peoples lives with pure B.s .

    • Will Allen

      People need to stop being patient and retaliate today. The Registries are the cause of widespread damage, chaos, and dysfunction. People should be doing anything they can every day to make that as bad as possible.

    • Josh

      @Guy & all Michigan registrants…..THIS is the one to keep a eye on. The state has until October 21st to respond or there about from what I was told. Then there will be another time period for the ACLU to respond back by around thanksgiving. This is the boldest & plainest language I’ve seen from the ACLU yet…….some of us have been saying for 2+ years that our relief will come from a order from the judge and not the legislature….this is it. Even if the new legislation is introduced it will NEVER be passed….realistically, there won’t be a majority in the house or senate that will side with us. The only way the legislature gets involved is if forced to because of a order or injunction…..

    • Gralphr

      Thats pretty good! Its about time somebody puts the government of Michigan in its place. The fact they expect registrants to “follow the law” yet they continue to ignore the ruling is telling in how corrupt they are. ALL should lose their seats!

    • AJ

      @Guy:
      It looks like ACLU-MI has decided they’ve given MI enough rope to hang themselves through their inaction. As I read parts of it, I got the feeling ACLU-MI was playing to the judge’s respect and dignity by noting how MI has blown off his measured activity–all MI has done is give lip service through its attorneys.

      This document is absolutely a shot across MI’s bow. Hopefully the judge agrees and strikes MI’s ML in its entirety.

  34. TnT

    Looks Nice ……Good Job 🙂 I agree its about time… I hope this sets precedent for other states too follow . These Politicians are useless .

    • R388

      @tnt I don’t think I need that lawyer after all thanks for responding back to me by the way

  35. blake

    Awesome job aclu. Im glad they are not bending over to the state. You guys are doing an awesome job. 10 years ago i felt alone and now i know there are so many people who hate the registry as much as i do. Can anyone answer when they added adjudicated juviniles to the registry with the adults? i am pre 2011 and pre 2006 so im hoping that this will be the nail in the coffin about me having to register.

  36. Hopeful

    So what does this filing by the aclu mean exactly?

    • AJ

      @Hopeful:
      “So what does this filing by the aclu mean exactly?”
      —–
      It means ACLU is tired of pussyfooting around and has lost faith that MI is negotiating in good faith. I believe that with this filing, the judge will HAVE to act. How can he reasonably ask them to go back to more conferences to work it out if one of the parties says it doesn’t see that anything can get worked out?

  37. TnT

    @R388…. I hope so buddy 🙂 Looks as if we may have a little hope with this one . Lets just keep our fingers crossed that hopefully a lot of us get our lives back. I am sure a lot of us will never stop fighting the good fight until these registries go down nation wide . I have been living this nightmare for 28 years its a very painful road, how I got here in the first place is beyond anything I have ever would have imagined. Bad laws have took a lot of good people to this corrupt system. Like I said before I myself was sentenced years before the registry ever even existed, The expost facto laws pulled me back into this spider web of a registry years after I was sentenced with nothing more then a rouge politicians evil ways to justify it . 25 years on this registry with out a judge ever placing me on here . I am sure I am not alone. Its unfair to ever let these politicians apply punitive punishment to anyone let alone someone years after there sentence. I will keep praying this judge destroys this registry not just toss the ones they are forced too. I hope he shuts it down for good . F%#k these corrupt politicians and their unconstitutional barbaric registry . It does nothing but destroy lives of many people who have already served there time. Not to mention the damage it does to their entire families. These registries do no good to protect the public or detour anyone from committing a crime. Pure B.s is all it is .

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