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MI: Federal judge invalidates portions of SORA

A federal judge has issued a ruling that invalidates portions of Michigan’s Sex Offender Registry Act (SORA) that are unconstitutional.

U.S. District Court Judge Robert Cleland issued the decision on Friday in a lawsuit that argued the SORA was unconstitutional. Full Article

Court Decision

Press Release from the Michigan ACLU


Join the discussion

  1. blake

    Im so happy right now. Awesome job judge cleland. im sure michigan is fuming lol.

  2. chris

    So everyone on the list can live and work where ever when this goes in affect

  3. TS

    Good news for all involved. I also like the fact that they use the word classes for people impacted. I believe that would set a precedent for future class related legal actions?

  4. SR

    “The intent is to satisfy a demand that people have that they kind feel like they want to know whether a sex offender is living in their midst.”

    Whaaaaaaa? Really? Peoples lives are forever destroyed through legal means so that “kinda wanting to know” is satisfied?

    • Bill

      So does this mean that the tier system is invalid? I originally had to be on the registration for 25 years ( would have been done this october) but they changed it to life. Please tell me I’ll be done in october!

      • Bobby S.


        I am with you, my original 25 years is up this June, but when they changed the registration dates to match the convicted date, I will have 28 years on it in June. So just like you and others in our boat how DOES this effect the tier 3 life people, especially if you are pre-2006-2011 people.

        I know I’m stupid and sound like a broken record, but how does this effect the life time registration if at all, and as some one else brought up what about the $50 fee thing every year.

        • Wow!

          Wow! I can’t imagine the internal fortitude you have shown throughout the yrs. on “The list”. I appluad your vigilance and emotional strength. I guess I am a product if the modern age in that I want immediate results in the form of the obolishment of the registry. I will try to follow your lead in learning patience in the process.

        • Disgusted in Michigan

          My conviction was in 1993 before the registry was enacted and I too was affected by the 2011 retroactive application of the law, changing my 25 years to life. I have read the ruling several times and see no reason why I will not come off the registry after the judgment is entered. The only thing that is not clear to me is if the 60 days for the legislature to enact a new law begins now or aftter March 13. Either way it looks like March will be the last time I have to verify but I’m going to wait until the end of the month to do it.
          I just cannot say how overjoyed I am that the court has finally put and end to this nonsense. If the legislature does not finally pass a new constitutional law that abides by the courts ruling, the judge will invalidate and strike down the entire law and everyone knows Michigan doesn’t want that to happen.

  5. matthew

    Times r’a changin

  6. chris

    Should rule on the 50 yearly fee too and make them refund it all

    • Josh

      @Michigan RC’s……I’m wary of what can or will happen in the next 2 months. You already saw the media spin and the suggestion of what could happen from @Midnight Mike. The legislature wouldn’t bat a eyelash at fixing this when they had a chance but we all know they’ll line up to pander to the hysterical soccer moms eerrr registered voters in this state. I don’t even want think about the last 4 years being for nothing

      • blake

        If they dont though everyone before april 12 2011 will be no longer required to register and the people 2011 after still get better relief than we ever thought. So its actually a win win for everyone at this point. michigan gambled and lost really really bad.

    • Wow!

      Wow! I can’t imagine the internal fortitude you have shown throughout the yrs. on “The list”. I appluad your vigilance and emotional strength. I guess I am a product if the modern age in that I want immediate results in the form of the obolishment of the registry. I will try to follow your lead in learning patience in the process.

  7. brandon

    so does this mean if we were ordered to serve life on the registry after 2011 we will be on for life?

  8. Jack

    Ok the ruling said the 2011 amendments we not separable, meaning the law can’t be enforced without those in place. Is the guy from the news thinking the legislature’s going to amend the law somehow?

  9. joe

    Valentines Day, Victory! How Sweet it is. YES!

  10. Jack

    “Michigan law makes clear that SORA cannot be enforced given such glaring omissions. See In re Apportionment of State Legislature-1982, 321 N.W.2d 565, 582 (Mich. 1982)”
    It’s over. It’s finally, fucking over. In one state for now at least. Hopefully the Supreme Court agrees with this decision.

    • Jai

      I’m trying to see how all of this is over? I cant seem to find any information on how things were changed. Cant you send a link or fill me in?

      • Josh

        @Jai….it’s not over. We have 2 more months and even then it might not be over the way we want it to be…

      • Jai

        @jai everything I said was in the court’s ruling. What I’m 1000% certain of is this. If you’re a sex offender and your offense predates 2011, you don’t register. Anymore.

        • BigAnt


          But let’s make this crystal clear and this is coming from a trusted source in the ACLU:

          While this is a victory for us, and the fact that those prior to 2011 will most likely be taken off the registry, until the new law takes place, YOU MUST STILL REGISTER AND REMAIN COMPLIANT. So while this is a huuuuge victory for us, until we are told specifically, still go in and do your verifications.

          I can’t wait! I’ve been on the registry since 1997, and finally, in my lifetime, I will finally be free…

      • Jamie

        It’s not over, the judge just invalidated [portions] of the law, and only temporarily…giving the state legislature time to come up with a reponse, which no doubt they will. Its encouraging however that this does lay some very solid legal ground on which to base future challenges. One of which I certainly hope a future Supreme Court will take druthers to hear.

        • Tim in WI

          MI Congress has four terms to move but THEY did not.
          I’ve little hope a claw back can be achieved.
          Some say it is too unpopular politically, but I think it is something else.
          Something about the gov “civil” uses of the machine database.

  11. wonderin

    Notice how the female newscaster refers to anyone listed as “predators” regardless of the truth. Obviously, an endeavor to undermine the decision of the judge. Fake news reigns supreme in America. How sad!

    • joe

      Yes, I did take notice of the word “predator” used by the female newscaster and it pissed me off. She needs a lot of emails explaining that most of the people on the registry are not predators. Right, fake news for sure, and ignorance for sure. What an Idiot!

    • Josh

      @Wonderin…I caught that “predator” comment too. There is still so much hate & discrimination out there. That article was full of spin. We will always be seen as less then human I fear

  12. Mike

    Well if I read it right, and it took a few times. If they don’t rewrite a new law in 60 days this takes affect and all of Sora will be invalid because there is no revival clause in it. I might be not be reading it correct. If someone else has a different view let me know.

  13. Guy

    So correct me if I’m wrong.

    Is there still 60 days of waiting at least until the legislature creates a new law?

    Example. I’m a tier 2 convicted back in 2007 (pre 2011 obviously so I’m part of the class action) I can’t go to my Son’s basketball game at the high school tonight as of today due to this ruling correct?

    • CM

      I am in the same boat. Although I do not live within my child’s district so only a handful of people know. With that said, based upon this I will go. I do not see them attempting to enforce something that has been ruled unconstitutional at this time. It is a grey area for sure but more in my favor. Now if there were a large group of parents that knew and I felt there was a 100% chance of someone saying something, I would not go just to not have something that would bring attention to my child.

  14. Bobby S.

    I just watched another report on the ruling on Channel 7 at 5pm, everything sounds great, but what I am still confused about is, the 2011 Amendment, is that still in play as far a tier 3 goes and registering for life.

    As you all know I am pre-2006 and 2011, conviction 6-19-92, so once the 60 days is up does that mean I am done with the registry? or just done with the 2006 amendments, and the 2011 amendment tiers and life time registration is still in play. I am going to read the ruling again to try and rap my head around it.

    I would really appreciate some clarification though if you all don’t mind. Thank you in advance.

    • Hopeful in MI

      Excellent news! Hopefully the ACLU or some other organization can provide a summary in laymen’s terms including dates.

    • Hopeful in MI

      I found my own answer….
      FEB. 14, 2020:
      On Monday, Feb. 17, ACLU Senior Attorney Miriam Aukerman will hold a Facebook live on the ACLU of Michigan Facebook page to update registrants on the implications of today’s ruling. Today, U.S. District Judge Robert Cleland ruled to provide relief for registrants on the Michigan Sex Offender Registration Act. Judge Cleland ordered that if the legislature does not bring the law into compliance with constitutional requirements, the state will no longer be able to enforce the law against pre-2011 registrants.

    • Tired Old Man

      Ok it is like this

      1). if politicians do nothing they and the police, AG, etc… will be deciding what happens and who comes off if any as they will spin it how they want – thus it will be back in forth in court many times both as a class and individual case’s

      2). if they do create a new law they will spin it where everyone or almost everyone will still be on it.
      A). they may write & Rewrite laws for years and the feds will help them. after they need to keep that $$$ Rolling in!

      Summery – it will still take years of fighting, this is just the first great chapter

      • wonderin

        I’m afraid I concur with your skepticism, tired old man.
        Just as a person might justify a sex offense, likewise the keepers of the registry will do the same until they are stopped.

    • Tee

      Bobby S,
      I am also interested in what does everything in layman’s terms means. I don’t understand how last year the state legislation was given a 90 day window to fix this and didn’t so they got to get almost a year to rewrite the law no that judge gave 60 days starting march 13th 2020? I’m confused too like you.

  15. Dave

    Official statement from MI ACLU. They will also be holding a Facebook live session commenting on registry requirements.

  16. Tim in WI


    The attempt to sever or divorce ” registration ” from ” notification ” has an important purpose.
    The deep state surveillance saints want to retain certain other uses in the “civil designation” with respect to the surveillance infrastructure already in place. Some of these bits are being used to spy on certain other groups too. Domestic electronic gov surveillance has long been a hot button among the people. Recent FISA manipulation examples now wrong it can go. These invalid reasons for surveillance is readily apparent in the unnecessary collateral collection of citizen data. Given the ” registration regime” paved the way for such electronic disillusion of the people’s trust in gov; it only makes sense to point to the powers and advantages advance by use of the machine property visa vi ” two party use. ” Inherent in registration is indenture, no matter how emotion overruns fact. Judge Cleland makes emphasis on the vague interpretation of the ” federal model” in where state sovereign is supposed to hold against federal financial incentives that overrun them. This is how emotional “Named acts” are not rational, and thereby implicating underlying intent.

    • Michael Wilson

      I assume Michigan will appeal to the US Supreme court. Is that likely to put everything on hold again??

      I am really trying not to get too excited.

      • joe

        @ Micheal Wilson, The US supreme Court has already refused to hear this case. I don’t believe there is a higher court for this case. I m pretty sure this is it. The state of Michigan has lost!

      • M C

        @Michael, I’m not sure what they would appeal. 6th circuit ruled on the ex post facto enforcement of the law in 2016 which was denied review by the US Supreme Court which means it’s good case law already, at least in the 6th circuit. So in this ruling (which is in regards to the State failing to abide by the constitutionaloty ruling) they are really just following the 6th circuits constitutionality ruling. They would only really have grounds to appeal something in the judges order that would be out of line with the constitutionality ruling. I think the state could appeal, yes but they could only really appeal the specifics of the most recent ruling as the ship has already sailed about the constitutionality.

  17. Jack

    On the ACLU’s website it said the judge wrote without the 2011 amendments registrants have no idea what to do basically. Does this apply to pre 2011 offenses only? Can Janice or anybody answer that question for me please? For the record the judge said later that some parts of the law were still enforceable for post 2011 offenders….

  18. TnT

    25 years over due … I Hope this is the freedom that 45,000 deserve and I hope they have too pay anyone that they forced this barbaric punishment upon with out a judge or jury applying it . I also hope this ruling will effect the rest of this country in a positive manner , Expost facto punishment will not be tolerated . After being on this registry for 25 plus years now it is as monumental as witnessing the Berlin Wall falling !

    • MidnightMike

      I have been doing a little reading and I’m absolutely confused about what happens now,,,, but I think y’all are forgetting one thing. You still have an obligation to register under federal Sorna. Federal SORNA has the same tier system,,, and tier three’s are still required to register for life,,, Also federal SORNA has been accepted as constitutional and applicable ex post facto,,, and it includes public notice via the internet,,,, Even if Michigan SORA is thrown out all together today,,,, we still all have the same obligation for the most part via Federal SORNA law.
      From what I can tell or understand,,, the important part,,, coming down from the website,,,,, isn’t going to happen for anyone because of this ruling unless FED law changes.
      I could be wrong,,,, I think it’s a victory of sorts,,,, but to me it seems like there is already fed law in place that will not allow any of us to be removed because of ex post facto. Only immunity from a few differences in Michigan SORA as opposed to SORNA.
      They don’t need to make a new law to keep us on it,,, because a fed law with the same effect already exists.

      • Political Prisoner

        The Fed SORNA does not register people it has to rely on the state to give them their list. So if Michigan’s law/list is struck down then they have nothing to give the Feds.

        • David

          @ Political Prisoner: I love that idea! Michigan will have nothing to give the feds!
          If that happens, I wonder if those of us on Registries in other states can file a lawsuit claiming unequal protection? Just a thought.
          Can we in other states use the Michigan ruling as a foothold to tear down our state’s Registries?

        • TS


          Yes, you can use Michigan as well others from CO, PA, etc.

        • M C

          @political prisoner. That’s true that the state administers it but I do believe that if you are required to register under federal SORNA you could be in trouble if you don’t at least try to register with the state and engage in any interstate commerce or travel out of MI at any time. I’m sure the state will still happily take your information for federal SORNA despite the ruling but may not be able to require everything they ask for currently. Obviously this only matters if the state doesn’t make a new registration law within the required timeframe.

        • Anon

          @PoliticalPrisoner This is incorrect. the federal requirement to comply with SORNA is still in place. This law requires registration regardless of state law. See post below re: Willman v. U.S. Office of Attorney Gen.

          Case dismissed in relation to plaintiffs argument he would no longer have to comply with SORNA after removal from Michigan registry.

        • Anon

          The establishment is continuing to move quickly to secure their position.

          We know Blumenthal had played a role encouraging FB TOS!
          BOTH parties are up to no good concerning domestic surveillance.

      • P31

        I don’t understand why some people respond with nothing but negativity.

        If you know all the answers and according to you, this decision wasn’t good for us. Then why are you here??? According to you, we will always be on the registry. So go away and let the rest of us have this victory, and YES, it is a victory!! Not a complete victory, but it’s a start.

        I’ve been on this over 25 years, was convicted before a registry. I’ve been homeless, loss jobs and so on. But this will be over soon for post 2006 & 2011 people. Then hopefully for all.

      • Anon


        My research leads me to concur. Removal of Michigan’s registry does not nullify the requirement to register with federal. SORNA specifically applies to all offenders, regardless of state status.

        See Willman v. U.S. Office of Attorney Gen.

        All motions brought forth by the Plaintiff were dismissed, including the argument he would no longer have to comply with the Federal SORNA after removal from Michigan’s registry. Compliance with SORNA has continually been deemed a separate entity from state law in court rulings.
        One possibility that may still be open to argument is the issue of vagueness. In the case of Willman v. U.S. Office of Attorney Gen., the argument to void for vagueness was dismissed because the plaintiff did not name the specific statute language he was challenging. While I see SORNA requires all offenders to “register, and keep registration current”, I have yet to find specific direction on whom offenders are required to register to. If your state does not have a registry, how can you be expected to comply with the federal law? Part of what makes the Michigan SORA unconstitutional is its vagueness of how to register without the 2011 amendment. If the 2011 laws are removed, there is no clear direction on how to comply with registration.

        • G4change

          I may be wrong, but this is what I believe will happen with regards to SORNA. If you are in a state and that state (or a court ruling in that state) deems that you no longer are required to register in that state, then you’re done with registering in that state unless that state passes a new law saying you must again register for the original offense or unless you commit a new offense that triggers registration. If you are done registering in Michigan and you then travel/move to a new state, then SORNA will apply to you. You will be required to once again register in this new state according to this new state’s laws. From what I understand, the federal SORNA only gets triggered when you cross state lines. There is no federal SORNA office in each state that you have to go to if the state doesn’t want you to register anymore.
          If I’m wrong, then someone please correct me.

        • Josh

          @G4….I believe that your explanation is about as concise & accurate as possible….the federal “boogeyman” that everybody keeps talking about just isn’t that big a deal until you get to international travel. They aren’t using federal Marshals to do compliance checks as far as I know? That just hasn’t been my experience or any other RC that I know of

        • Notorious D.I.K.ennerly

          Josh, “They aren’t using federal Marshals to do compliance checks as far as I know?”

          Unfortunately, they are. Usually in multi-agency task forces. It happens all of the time.

          And ICE (federal) is intimately involved in the fight against sex offenders. Just look at where these porn investigations are coming from.

        • Tim in WI

          You describe how database infrastructure eviscerated “state sovereign” in the day to day lives of Americans. The constitution specifically identified State’s as the entity responsible for that.

  19. Anonymous

    ACLU Facebook? Is this a cruel joke? I am off paper & yet kicked off/prohibited from Facebook by Facebook.

    • CM

      Get crafty. Not hard to get access to facebook for the event. Especially now that you so not have to tell the state your new email address that you set up to create your facebook.

    • David Wilson

      That is the same thing I was thinking.

    • The Vampire

      Its a piece of cake to join facebook make a new email and use your middle name and last name but do not add any family our friends too your new facebook account that could set off alarms too facebook (oh look is this so in so) that we banned. And if you worried about the IP address get a repeater or get a VPN problem solved.

      • R M

        @Vampire: Are you willing to gamble up to 30 years of your freedom on that? I’m not.

        • chris

          The Supreme court said facebook was protected under the 1st amendment and the government cant stop us from using it unless ur on probation

  20. Tired Old Man

    Lets rational this with facts for a moment then reply with if you still actually think you will be off the hit list.

    1). attorney fighting for the Doe’s states there should be a list

    2). Judge finds parts of law unconstitutional

    3). after several years unconstitutional law still in effect (how is an unconstitutional still allowed to be enforced)

    4). after several years judge rules again unconstitutional and gives the state 60 days after the ruling that the parts of the law are unconstitutional to correct the law but still the unconstitutional law is still in place! (only against SO’s is an unconstitutional law allowed to stand! it should have been immediately struck down since it is unconstitutional!!!! Constition means nothing anymore and this case proves it!!!!)

  21. Jerry

    My question is, Does this only apply to Michigan RC’s? Because I’m in Texas, I did understand the whole article but I was just wondering if this is only for Michigan

    • Anon

      No, is the short answer. MI & TX are in different federal circuits.
      You better read up on.
      Lawrence V Texas

      • M C

        Not sure what Lawrence v Texas has to do with this but the 5th and 6th circuits certainly seem to have different ideas of what they consider punitive. The fact is is the constitutionally ruling and this ruling only apply to the MI registration statute as it is now. The only thing this is good for outside of MI is to cite it to try and convince a judge that some law ruled unconstitutional in MI is similar enough to a law in some other jurisdiction that it too should be ruled unconstitutional on the same basis. That and it has created a record that suggests Smith v Doe should be reconsidered in light of changed of how easily information is now available.

  22. Brandon

    So after reading this again the way i see it is the state can keep sora the way it is written but must let everyone pre dating the 2011 amendments off of sora and the un constitutional provisions will be removed for every one… or they can re-write the law so it will pass constitutional muster which would be to bring back the 25 year limit which would mean most of the pre 2011 registrants would be eligible for release.. any one else getting this result after reading this order?

    • Disgusted in Michigan

      @Brandon..close but not exactly. The legislature now has 60 days to pass a new law that does not violate the constitution and is in alignment with the court’s ruling. They cannot keep what is written in place because if they do not make changed within 60 days the Judge will immediately enter an order striking down the entire registry as unenforceable and illegal. The state cannot sit back now and do nothing because they will lose their previous registry. From what I understand from the entire case, if your 25 years were changed to life, it will revert back to 25 years and if you have been on for more than 25 years you will come off. They can keep the tier system and lifetime registration only for those convicted AFTER the 2011 amendments were passed, not before. It is also up to the state to come up with a plan on how to notify registrants and anyone in charge of enforcing the registry of the court’s ruling by March 13. I believe a new registry must be written and passed by April 14 (60 days from February 14). If the legislature does not act by then, the ENTIRE registry will be struck down. I don’t see the state allowing that to happen. There are no more appeals. Its over. The judge has had the final day and the legislature must now act. They have no other options. Read the ruling again. Its all there and the judge slammed the state.

  23. Tim in WI

    Disgusted in MI,
    You have the high ground now! Make the most of it. The amendments reflect the true underlying intent to utilize ” a gov database” to impose affirmative restraint. In other words NOTIFICATION proves REGISTRATION punitive!
    Given that the regime’s initial upholding to intermediate constitutional scrutiny was precisely because the heart of the Alaska case was imprinted based on poorly defined complaint, false recidivism facts, and federal financial fiddling by the Byrne Grant crowd an investigation is in order. Registration in this case is indentured servitude to database maintenance.
    Furthermore the machine has literally worked anti-liberty on a massive scale.
    it is no wonder why the focus was on man rather than the database machines use.
    That’s how they sold it ” to the people. ” As J.J. Stevens put it “Congress ‘s choice to apply it to them and only them is paramount to the suspicion of punitive intent.”
    He went on during the 9ths review to state ” there is something else afoot here. ”

    We all know there was going to be gone of cash in the surveillance culture and data collection & broker markets. Slavery is always cruel to liberty of free men.

  24. Jack

    @ Brandon yes that’s right. However my question is this. Is the requirement to register in person now unconstitutional for post 2011 registrants?

    • brandon

      @ Jack ..the state is going to have to re-write the law. Because what Judge Cleland just did, He basically just said either re-write this or everyone who’s conviction that pre dates 2011 will no longer have to comply with ANY parts or sora. and you will be removed. From what i gather here in the comments is that if the state does not register you then federal will not register you. but!!! if the state re-writes the law then they can recapture some of us If our 25 years FROM when your released from D.O.C. is not up ( for tier 3 ) and the rest of us where our time has expired.. at that point you would have to petition the courts to be removed. ( That last part is not in the law but if the state re-writes it i am almost positive that that will be included. Its another way for them to make a dime off of us. My opinion.) But i think the ACLU is trying to get them to comply with a part of the law being the 99 stat and being a qualified tier’d system. That way you would be categorized with your score of the test.This is what i am gathering at the larger scope. just having everyone more informed on the situation including the public! The statistics don’t lie..Pear proof! The real kicker here is that S.O.R.N.A requires life time registration if you are a Tier 3 offender. (dosn’t matter the date of your conviction even if the law went in to effect AFTER you conviction. it passes constitutional muster ASIS, on a federal level..My questions is when do we go after S.O.R.N.A?? …. This is very interesting! lol I am going to love people’s thoughts on this!!!


        @Well that’s not that good. The static 99-R test is absurd.

        • Josh

          @All…..when the hell has the Stat 99 ever been discussed as a possibility for Michigan’s new inevitable legislation? That would be insanity! Also, I don’t get all this concern for the federal oversight of SORNA….really? If are leaving Michigan for less then seven days but more then 3 days say to South Carolina which has a 10 day visitor window then who are you going to report that to? The cadets/desk cop I report to when I verify, barely know the requirements of the state of Michigan. I’m not going to go in to the police in either location and volunteer to report my “federal” obligation….I never ever received a list of obligations from the federal government about my registration requirements beyond what the state of Michigan is asking for. What of the people who have been removed from the various state registries that come off the federal registry simultaneously? I have no idea what is going to happen legislatively in Michigan for tier 3s but I’m scared to death that it won’t be total removal despite my case being ex post facto every change, tweak, & amendment since the registry’s passage in 94 and implementation in 95. One last thought…over the last 3 days I’ve read every comment on 3 forums running the spectrum from doomsday negativity to completely unrealistic optimism…..For real folks, NOBODY knows what is going to happen and the rampant speculation may be fun but I’ve got a feeling that NONE are going to get everything they think they’re entitled to. I’ve re-read the opinion 5 times now and I only know one thing for certain…the state, although completely ruled against still gets yet ANOTHER chance….smh

    • New Person

      @ Jack,

      I think you should call in for this query. It’s a very good query because if Michigan does in fact all “in-person reporting criminal”, then it can possibly be used in other states to sway a judge if “in-person reporting” was ruled unconstitutional to be administered to registrants ever.

      In California, it could make a significant impact because in 1958, the case Kelly v Municipal stated that “in-person reporting was quasi-criminal” and because it was a form of punishment, then it allowed registrants who qualified for the 1203.4 immunity program. But because 2003 Smith v Doe stated the registry was statutory, California changes it’s registry laws and made “in-person reporting” not punishment any longer.

  25. Anonymous

    @CM “Especially now that you so not have to tell the state your new email address that you set up to create your facebook.”
    What state do you think I live in? Yes I have to report all email addresses to my state SORA.

    • The Vampire

      @Ano how the blank those cops will know you have a new email addresses? Unless you tell them. They can’t know!! Or you tell some rotten friend or family members that could turn you in. Best thing to do is keep your mouth shut!!!! Have you ever seen this video Ano This video tells you to keep your mouth shut to cops cause cops not there too help you only too make money off you watch the vid bro and learn

  26. M C

    @political prisoner. That’s true that the state administers it but I do believe that if you are required to register under federal SORNA you could be in trouble if you don’t at least try to register with the state and engage in any interstate commerce or travel out of MI at any time. I’m sure the state will still happily take your information for federal SORNA despite the ruling but may not be able to require everything they ask for and might also refuse if you won’t give it. Obviously this only matters if the state doesn’t make a new registration law within the required timeframe.

  27. Hopeful in Michigan

    The ACLU has updated their site regarding the Monday SORA update call, check this link for more info

  28. Dave

    There will be a phone conference for registrants on Monday, Feb. 17, at 12:30 p.m. when ACLU Senior Attorney Miriam Aukerman and Oliver Law Group Attorney Alyson Oliver will update registrants on the implications of Friday’s ruling.

    Join Monday’s call via Zoom with the information below

    To ask questions during Monday’s call, please call: (313) 578-6829, as you may not be able to ask questions directly via Zoom during the call.

    To ask specific questions otherwise, please email:


    Time: Feb 17, 2020 12:30 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

    Join Zoom Meeting by computer:

    Or join by phone: (929) 436-2866

    Meeting ID: 935 926 284

    Find your local number:

  29. Bri

    Can someone explain what happens in Michigan if you were convicted before 2011 and released from prison in 2013?

    • Don't tread on me

      If your conviction was before 2011 continue checking here for updates. Nobody and I mean NOBODY truly knows yet. It is an evolving situation. The state has 60 days to try and write a new constitutional law. IF they fail to do that within 60 days then the SOR becomes unenforceable. It is POSSIBLE you could be removed from the registry IF your original term of registration has been completed. The primary focus of the courts decision is to remove registrants that were originally given 25 years on the registry then the state changed it to lifetime.

      There are many other potential changes such as residency restrictions, in person reporting, email address reporting, etc…. All of these should be eliminated with the decision but once again nobody knows. The idea of individual assessments has also been tossed around. I don’t have a lot of faith in politicians. They painted themselves into a corner and the courts slapped them for it. They have until March 15 or so to make the ordered changes or else the court will declare it unenforceable.

      We are in a the best position we have ever been. I am optimistic things will get better. I don’t think the recent decision was a death blow to the registry but it was an extremely hard hit. They MUST write a constitutional law. Ex post facto application of punishment is illegal and the court has told them so.

      I recommend a wait and see attitude and remain compliant until told you are told you no longer have to. The potential consequences as you all know is imprisonment.

  30. The Vampire

    I would like too take a Moment my follow brothers and sisters! Who will get off this crazy train. That you will not forget OR stop fighting to help all new registers and there family to end the pain. As we all have felt over the years. The labelling of people is a nazi thing! Just like a hate crime to make us out to be subhuman and deny us reentry in to society. Just like the jews who was gas and killed. You all should feel the same pain and fear. So please don’t forget to keep fighting if you are let go too freedom. And if you are let go from this nazi list congratulations too you. I hope you live long and have a happy rest of your live side of the nazi list bs!

    • Dave

      Ex senator Rick Jones who now is a private citizen is helping to rewrite the new registry laws. He is the one that passed most of these illegal laws in the first place. He is not a lawyer or a legislator but just a private citizen. He is saying he will make the proximity laws not vague. He doesn’t care about science or if it hurts people.

      It shows the mindset of Michigan government to allow him to help craft the new laws.

      • Dave

        Okay that information isn’t accurate. I seen a video and it’s from 2015. Wow, it is about exactly the same topic. Proximity laws being vague.

        So we have been down this same exact path before and hopefully have different results. Kinda confusing. Lol

      • Leslie

        Residency laws are vague? You can bet they are vague. Who knows if they are as the crow flies or 1,000 feet from the school. You can go to a police station if you move. They draw a circle around the area on a map where you can and cannot live. Who comes up with this anyway? Is it accurate? I think not always. Actually, I checked it out on my computer several times, and it did not coincide with what the law enforcement showed on their map. Sometimes I believe it is designed to keep sex offenders out of certain areas. I think the residency laws are a nightmare.

    • MidnightMike

      That’s part of what confuses me. We still have the obligation to register. Even if your crime was 50 years ago…. if you met mandated criteria for tier 3,,, say your victim was under 13yo,,, or more then one offense,,,, you still have a fed obligation to register for life,,, including ex post facto.. and the state still takes your info, and still posts it on a web sight for the feds,,,, To me the important part is still there and not much changes for ex post facto if your tier 3. It’s very unclear what I’ll be expected to do registry wise from now on,,, but it sounds like more of the same ole same same. Even if Michigan rewrote the law and removed us in the new Michigan law,,,,, fed wise,,, tier three is still life. That would kinda make the victory suck even more. Idk. To me it’s all silly. Either register everybody with a victim or nobody with a victim! Then it’s fair. Till then they will always be wrong in my eyes,,,, and separating a hated group of citizens,,,,
      We did our time. Like if I was on parole,,, I could see notifying the public maybe, or a repeat offender that just couldn’t stop,,,, but 20 years after I completed prison and parole,,,, heck I’m not even the same person I was 20 years ago. I’m darn sure not a danger to anyone,,,, after two years on parole and 20 years in the community without reoffending,,,,, at what point do I get the right to stop being punished and abused by all these people who are so much better then me? At what point do I get a real life back where I can apply with a real job for a background check?? At what point do I deserve that right,,,, I wish someone would just tell me what I need to do. Five more years in prison?? Public beating?? I wish they would just give me some sort of path to being a real man again.
      What I was accused of in my early 20’s,,, it doesn’t take a GED to know that has little to do with me now in my 50’s. Especially after being a model inmate, parolee, registrant for 25 years without a single problem.
      Either I’m fit to be part of society or I’m not. I wish they would make up their minds. I don’t know what gives anyone the right to deem me unforgivable.
      If I’m part of society then I think I deserve to be treated like everyone else.

      • Interested Party


        Mike, I fully relate to the issues you bring up with the federal SORNA requirements. And also your statements about not believing that any relief will really matter.

        That said, the federal reporting is done by local jurisdictions only. If the local and state authorities declare that you do not have to register, then there is no place or even mechanism to register.

        Another point to consider, is a number of people that have posted on this sight have been relieved of having to register and while still meeting the requirements under SORNA to continue to register … to date I have not seen any posts of anyone having any issues with the feds coming after them.

        The final point is if someone were convicted in a state, and then relieved of registration requirements by that state, there would be some serious legal obstacles to be overcome for the feds to require additional registration. To my knowledge this has not played out at all.

        Your skepticism, is entirely understandable. I hope and pray that the feds never try to enforce SORNA on anyone who has been relieved of having to register. It would be a nightmare for any of us to have to live through that legal process.

        However, if it does come to pass, there is hope that the courts have started to recognize the registration schemes as outlined in SORNA as being punishment. I hope no one will have to go through that, while also recognizing it is a possibility.

  31. TnT

    @ MidnightMike ……. I couldn’t imagine these Jack @zzs being able to apply or justify a federal law retroactively to most of us whos crime and sentences were prior to a federal law even being written or as my self whos conviction was years prior to a registration list ever even existing. I know they are evil dirty mofoers but are you really kidding me ???? Do you think they could get away with that ? That would be a pretty sick thought if they could . They applied this registry to people years after a conviction by a politicians stroke of a pen. In most cases they do not even have a spec of evidence these sex laws are so unconstitutional this is how they have 45,000 in one state and over 1 million in 52 states . If any case involves a minor in Michigan they do not need a Time…A Day …. or even Psychical evidence to convict a person, its guilty they get away with locking up people with little to no evidence . You need more to lock a person up in this state for stealing a candy bar then to convict of a sex crime if it involves a minor …. Sad but true. I sure hope you are wrong with them being able to retroactive anymore punishment on anyone with this registry B.S. Please correct me if I am wrong that they would be allowed to get away with this again retroactively ?

  32. TnT

    P.s …. In the Great State of Michigan ….You can have YOUR entire life taken away with … He says …She says…B.S. nothing more . The laws are Broken in this state and have been for over 25 years now. The retroactive B.S started in 95 when they wrote the first registry list, that also stated that if they used your personal info or shared it with anyone else they would be held liable , It was a private list so they said,They retroactively applied that on people , They posted them same people who they forced on the registry ex post facto, then after it states private list… then they plastered their info everywhere all over the internet , when in the 95 the law states clearly… they CAN NOT SHARE YOUR INFO????? What Happened????????? This is Twilight Zone S#%t .

    • Dave

      Remember when they told us we had to pay a one time fee to be on the registry? They made such a big deal about it they even made me sign a paper acknowledging it they they changed it and said now you have to pay $50 a year. I said what about the so called one time fee you made me sign now you want me to sign this paper agreeing to $50 a year. These guys are clowns. This is actually the third time proximity laws have been declared unconstitutional.

      I hope this time it’s real and not like the other times. This registry is an absolute joke. My local TV station in Michigan just did a survey of its viewers from Oakland County and 75% of the viewers voted the registry needed to be overhauled. Even Michigan’s public is getting sick of this pile of cow dung registry.

      So many of us can’t get jobs when they list the employers address and send cops to verify ur employment. What boss wants that kind of nonsense? So now we are losing our health care. Supposedly 66,000 folks will get kicked off healthcare because of being able bodied but not working. I wonder how many are registered citizens?

      I once read 60% of registered citizens are unemployed. If Michigan has 44,000 registered citizens make me think a lot of people losing healthcare will be us.

      • TnT

        True In 95 when they started the first registry , there were no fees . They do as they please because most people donnt have the money to stop the from applying it to them .

        • MidnightMike

          I listened to the phone conference. Short answer is…. wait and see. No one really knows anything at all other when what the judges decision was. A new law could change everything,,, no new law could leave it a mess to understand what to do. We simply have to wait and see what our lawmakers do,,,,, or don’t do,,,, and someone will let us know,,, it’s probably gonna be a while.
          The gov ain’t giving back any $$ they took wether they had the authority or not. No matter what happens,,, they can still make new crazy laws,,, and they probably will. So,,, who knows?
          It seems we made some headway,,,, time will tell wether we actually did or not. Till then,,,, it’s entirely up in the air and we should bug the lawmakers.
          Effectively,,, still waiting on something to happen.

  33. The Vampire

    Watch this! It could help your kids in the future. i am buying this book. Thank you all

  34. TP

    This is exciting news, but we need to stay diligent in watching the the legislative branch does… they still have 60 days. Watch them work “miracles” now that a true deadline is set.

    In terms of those worried about the feds v. state… if you are removed from the state registry because you were in violation of a state law there is nothing to worry about. Feds cannot dictate state law, it’s a basic federalism principle. If you were in violation of a federal law, and the state doesn’t have a registry, and then you do your duty to attempt to register but cant then the feds can do nothing to you.

  35. Disgusted in Michigan

    Don’t know if anyone in Michigan has seen this, but Senate bill 753 was recently enacted requiring registrants who are the legal guardians of a child in school to notify that school in writing within 14 days of the child enrolling in that school that he is a sex offender. Failing to do so carries a fine up to $500.
    The bill was introduced by senator Rick Outman.
    I guess it isn’t enough to continue to punish the registered citizen, now the child will potentially be subject to harassment.

    • Leslie

      SB 753 is disgusting! Does anyone think if the school is notified, parents and their kids won’t find out? It is a horrible thing to do to children and their families. Might as well put signs in front yards like the sheriff wanted to do in Georgia indicating sex offender’s residences.

      • Rodger

        With this crap notifying the school doesn’t that have to be signed in to law by the gov just wondering because I will not stand for it and I will sue the state of Michigan. Let me knkw

  36. Tim in WI

    ASSEMBLE and protest in LANSING!
    BE assertive as you have the high ground and mandamus now!
    Some of us in other states will join you!
    I suspect they’d fold like a cheap tent.

  37. Bobby S.

    I was in on the conference call, and listened very intently, the one thing that was brought up by a caller was after the registry is revised, can people be placed back on it. I maybe wrong, but from what Ms Aukerman said, people that are pre-20006 and 2011 can NOT be placed back on the registry unless for som reason your original registration term is not over as of yet, but the majority of pre-2006 and 2011 registrants will come of the registry. The one thing I did not catch or totally understand was once you are removed fro Michigan’s registry do we still have to register in another state if we are on vacation or visiting family or friends for a week or longer, any one else have any thoughts on this yet. I did shoot an email to Tim about this question and a few others. It’s almost over folks. just stay compliant like Ms Aukerman said until we get the final word. I will also more then likely have to fork over $50 bucks, next when I checkin, but at least it’s almost over.

    • R33

      So if I was sentenced in 2009 this won’t affect me ???

      • Austin

        It is completely related to when you the events occurred (not the conviction date) that cause you to register AND if you live in the state of Michigan.

    • Austin

      Bobby, if you go to another state you have to follow their rules regardless of your status in michigan. So if you get off in michigan and travel to florida for 3 days, you will have to register there if you fit their requirements.
      Travel will always be an issue until someone successfully challenges the restraints that it causes.

      I also listened and interpreted what she said differently (i am pre 2009 in another state so this is very important to me as well). The way i understood is you may come off completely depending on what happens with the legislature. In the event that you come off, they may pass a law at some point that would cause you could to go back on but the burden will be higher for the state to put you back on in the same capacity and burdens that registering currently imposes.

      • Josh

        @BobbyS…..I got to agree with Austin. I didn’t hear any guarantee about ANYTHING. I think you tried to hear what you wanted to hear. All I took away from today’s conference call is that we get off scot free ONLY if the state does nothing. Anybody who believes the state will do nothing and let this go unanswered is a dumbass. It sounds like the legislature will determine our fate and this speculation on all of our parts does nothing except cause anxiety & anger….it is what is people!

    • Chris

      Bobby s. Why would u have to register in another state? U no longer on the registry. There should b no punishment for failure to register if ur not on a registry. Only way is if they make a non public registry where we dint have to report but police agencies can see. Then maybe. I do know that if u move to another state u would usually have to meet with a detective in the city u move to and explain ur situation. They will then decide what tier u will fall under in their state. Without being on the registry in ur conviction state its hard to say what would happen then. I’m guessing that if u are no longer on the registry u should not have to register at all unless theres an unpublished registry.

      • Muriel

        In Florida if you have EVER been classified as a sex offender/predator you must register after 3 days, even if you are not required to register in your state of conviction or residency. So yes, you must become a registrant in FL. AND it is for life, even if you never lived here, you cannot get off.
        Fl will report to the Federal SMART office and you will again be listed if you are off any other registry in the US and its territories. Plus that makes you IML so DO NOT come to FL under any circumstances for more than 48 hours.

  38. Bill

    So, because my original 25 year sentence is not up until october of this year I’ll be left on this thing for life?

    • Sheldon

      @Bill I have been on the list 25 years also. My registry is up in June. Yours will be in October Bill that’s what bobby is saying.

      • Bill

        I certainly hope its over in october but I have no faith that they will do the right thing

      • MidnightMike

        More then likely SORA is dead. They will make a new law for sure. Hard to say when. I would expect that when the new law comes out. Ex post facto for life will be part of it,,,, it’s part of federal SORNA. They have to follow it to get fed $$$$.
        Yes it’s possible,,, remotely possible that some people will be removed from the registry temporarily if making the new law takes too long (they generally do, we see how they work). I would expect that situation to be avoided,,, however if it’s not,,, I expect the relief to be short in duration. Only until they pass new law. It’s also possible that some may slip thru the cracks and not be captured by the new law,,,, however if you read SORNA,,, and the new law follows SORNA (which we would expect),,,,, little will change. Tier three is still tier three and tier three is still life,,,,Even ex post facto,,, even with a plea deal that includes no registration. The requirements for tier 3 are still the same.
        Is it possible that Michigan will ignore fed Sorna and not care about meeting the requirements for the fed cash,,,, yes. If they do that would be the only scenario with long term relief. However,,, I think it would be a stretch to think that a new law that completely ignores the fed law and releases a bunch of sex offenders is on its way.
        A new law that mirrors the fed law is more realistic. If anyone is going to be removed permanently not to be put back on shortly after,,,, I will believe it when I see it.
        We are labeled sex offenders,,,, it’s not like we are murderers. They have rights,,,, We have no rights and no one cares,,, it’s just awesome for them to have a class of people to poop on,,it makes them feel good about themselves ,,,,, I’d stock up on air freshener. I don’t buy that Michigan would ignore the feds/fed$$, if anything I expect the new law to be worse and tougher to deal with for everyone.
        Will it be constitutional,,, of course,,, ,, don’t be surprised when they start strapping an ankle bracelet with GPS that we have to pay for,,, because of “risk assessment” or “civil commitment” for life. Both have been deemed constitutional for people with victims under 13 or two offenses. Polygraph monitoring,,, Drivers licenses/plates that are marked,,,even lifetime SO counseling that we have to pay for, they have a lot more to stomp on us with now that has passed constitutional muster.
        We forced them to make a law that’s constitutional,,, that’s it. No one even implied removed for life. Possibly removed till they pass a new law,,,,, They will and it will likely be worse and include more people. It’s a small victory that is probably the equivalent of punching a grizzly bear in the nose.

        • blake

          Ok everyone calm down. To my understanding all of pre 2011 will not be classified into tiers anymore. Im also thinking that if they try to put you back into a tier you can be like nope im pre 2011. So if they rewrite the law they cant put you back into a tiering system. So if they rewrite the law they cant use the tiering system at all because it would right back into ex post facto. I was not a tier before 2011 so for them to put me back into a tier would be ex post facto.

        • R33

          Lol I would rather fight a grizzly bear

        • M C

          @blake, they could most definitely still use a tiering system retroactively and constitutionally Gundy v United States made that very clear. It’s only the parts that would be considered punishment that matter.

  39. M C

    @Midnightmike, It is possible to revamp the law, let at least some people off lifetime registry and still be SORNA compliant. It would be overly optimistic in my opinion but you ought to lobby for it if you can. In this scenario MI must not meet 60 day deadline for a new law causing people to come off the registry and must enact a new registration law after that date. Then, if they enact a law that is minimally SORNA compliant they can choose to follow all of those registration guidelines for SORNA but use the attorney generals rule for retroactive application. Under that rule, if you are not currently required to register they can only add you back to the registry if you somehow reenter the legal system by committing some sort of crime. The state could certainly enact a more strict retroactive application and then this wouldn’t work but I believe this specific scenario would allow for it.

    • MM

      There is already a tier system in place with the fed law,,, it already applies to every single one of us. It also compels is to register with the state,,, wether the state requires it or not. Even sets how long and how often.
      The state has already enacted a law that applies ex post facto, and there is already a fed law that is constitutional to be applied ex post facto. ,, the only reason the state law was shot down is that it went to far,,, to the point it crossed the “punishment” standard. They can absolutely make another law that applies ex post facto as long as remains below the mark where it would become punishment. That’s exactly what we are waiting for them to do;,, again. THEY CAN ALSO MAKE EVEN HARSHER LAWS,,, provided the laws are “risk based”. Such as they have in other states…. they send your folder to the DOC to decide what your risk level is…. some risk levels,,, gps for life,,, some risk levels,,,, prison/parole for life,,, it’s already happening in other states. We are for sure opening a can of worms.
      I understand that the ACLU wants you to think they have some input as far as the legislature using common sense,,,,, seriously,,, I don’t see it. Their cornbread isn’t quite done in the middle…The ACLU has great ideas and great input,,,,, to believe MI lawmakers are going to listen and go against fed law,,, give up the $5M that comes with following the fed law,,,, and remove anyone that the feds require to register for life ,,,, I would not hold my breath.
      This ruling may release some if the law isn’t finished in time and the ACLU doesn’t agree to more time,,, which they already hinted that they would be open to,,,,, but legally,,, even if they run out of time,,, I don’t think legally they will remove us because fed wise they are bound to collect/post our junk online at the very least. As I stated before. Even if they do remove us,, ,, it’s absolutely a good possibility that a new law will come shortly that will put us all back on. It happening nation wide,,, SORNA passes muster,,, it’s fed,,, and you can bet Michigan will want that $$$$. I have to believe that the new law will mirror SORNA,,, and then some.
      Just because a judge lets us off. Is no assurance that you won’t be put right back on. Especially since fed law requires it.

      • Hopeful Tom

        Well, I was 13 at the time, charged at 14 in 1998. I’m 36 now, hoping to get off and and start a new life, our daughters are in school, and this a burden on them that I have to miss out on so much. Really hoping this works out for everyone that it can.

        • Ghost

          @Hopeful Tom: I pray that it will for you. The chance to be with your children at times they get awarded or for achievement should be the right of any parent. I’m sorry for how so many hearts can be black. We are in times of uncertainty and I’m afraid MM could be correct. But the rubber stamp method should be done away with. There is a impact situation here and not just one person. If they want a quick evaluation, then they need to find a better algorithm then the one they have now. It has to be more then a odd or even system. At least they should give us a fighting chance. As the who’s said ” We Are Here, We Are here, We Are Here!” G B

        • MidnightMike

          @Hopeful Tom. Your not required to register if your age at the time of the offense was under 14 and it also excludes you from Tier III. ALSO: Anyone else that was a juvenile ,,, or that was convicted under Hyta you might want to follow HB4940. You that were convicted young should see some relief from registration with this bill and Tom,,, I don’t think they can require you to register if your offense was at 13yo. Might want to talk to an attorney.

      • Chris

        Mm. The state is going to turn all michigan registrants into federal registrants and were all gonna have to go to lansing or grand rapids to register. 🤣 they might even make us all go to Washington DC just to make sure were all compliant.

  40. Warpath

    I really wish everyone would just calm down. Once again nobody knows what will happen. We can speculate all we want but it is a vast unknown. For now I will remain cautiously optimistic. They have every opportunity to do the right thing. Historically African Americans, homosexuals, Japanese, and a long list of other hated groups slowly made headway in our society. While this may not be the time it all comes tumbling down, remember we are getting to the point numbers wise that securing our votes becomes important. We ARE making headway. I listened to the ACLU of Mi call today. They are optimistic that improvements are coming. Patience my friends patience

    • Disgusted in Michigan

      I was just about to say the same thing. There are no answers to our questions right now and we can speculate all we want but it does no good because no one has any answers and no one knows what is going to happen next. The only thing that is certain is the legislature has to pass a new law that not only passes constitutional muster, but must also be in alignment with the Court’s ruling. We do know that there will and must be changes, but exactly what those changes will be or how they will affect us is up in the air. All we can do is hope but we do know we will get some kind of relief. The thing I am hopeful for and that is in my favor is the registry was enacted after my conviction, and the lifetime registration was put in place long afterwards. I can only hope that due to my conviction being prior to the registry that I will come off. And I can only hope that if the 2011 amendment is removed that my lifetime will revert back to 25 years and then I will come off.
      The legislature can do what they want and can certainly make it harsher, but whether or not harsher laws would apply to us, I don’t know and neither does anyone else. The only thing that is certain for me is if the new law does not immediately remove me from the registry I might as well eat a bullet because I am sick and tired of this shit. I just want to be left alone and live whatever years I have left in peace.

  41. To All in MI

    ⭐⭐⭐🗽 MI Registrants, I strongly encourage you and friends, family members & supporters to prepare for a MASSIVE & OVERWHELMING letter-writing, emailing and phone-calling campaign. IF the judge gives the MI legislature a chance to re-write the existing MI Registry statutes, as soon as that decision comes out, you should OVERWHELM your lawmakers with letters, emails, phone-calls and legislative office visits to pressure them to abide by the MI and U.S. Constitutions and reduce whatever Registry they may propose to the very barest minimum (including NO Ex Post Facto AND AUTOMATIC removal after a specified time period.)
    In fact, right now, you may want to start sending well-written “Letters to the Editor” of ALL MI newspapers advocating for your Constitutional rights and a bare minimum Registry.
    MI is at a critical turning point. Don’t ease up – instead, TURN UP the pressure on legislators.
    (This may also be the time – YOUR time – using this court decision as an conversation-starter – to “come out” to family, friends, and colleagues that this ruling is personal and its effects impact your life every single day.

    • Lobby even further

      I 1000% agree this lobbying needs to occur, but I would even take these efforts a step further and even lobby to get rid of the registry all together. Educate them about the truth in the registry and its sheer pointlessness of it.

      • Will Allen

        Yep, no one should ever talk to a legislator or anyone else as if the Registries are intelligent or sensible. I write many people all the time and I always state that the Registries are not just worthless, but a lot worse. I like to say it at the very beginning. If I want to write someone about “XYZ”, I will start with something like:

        We know that the $EX Offender Registries ($ORs) are not needed or significantly beneficial. That is trivial to prove. Experts never supported the $ORs and they certainly have been proven to have been right. The $ORs might not be so immoral if they were only worthless, but they are much, much worse. Just as all experts always said, they are counterproductive. But it is much worse than that, the $ORs are harming all of America every day.

        If people do not possess the courage and strength to destroy the Registries, we should act to reduce their harm on all of America. Therefore, … XYZ …

        The beautiful part of starting that way is that it is that it gets attention, is the most important thing, and it’s all true.

        • TP

          If you write it like that, with the $, there is no way they will ever pay you any mind or give you any attention.

        • Will Allen

          @TP (

          Interesting, you might be right. Why do you think that though?

          Because they can’t understand what it means?

          Because they would get so emotional that they couldn’t get past that and concern themselves with comprehending anything further, even something that could be completely factual and very significant?

          Because they think I’m glorifying sex and/or sexual offending?

          Some other reason?

          You might be right for sure though. But I’ve found that people will ignore people saying “sex offender registry” all day long but really get fired up about “$EX Offender Registry”. Perhaps in the wrong way. But they pay attention. And remember.

          I think it is quite sad, obnoxious, and nauseating that criminal legislators and other scumbags might ignore me when it is a very real possibility that I am literally murdering people because of that/them. Does anyone else find it insane that government just ignores people, harasses them, commits as many crimes against them as they like, and then they say they are (and appear to be) just so completely blindsided and sad when people retaliate? How many times have we seen that? All because they were too emotional, arrogant, or whatever to care, I guess. Maybe they just get too caught up in the fun of harassing?

          I think the moral is that if you are going to harass people, you better pay attention.

        • SR

          People get fired up about because it looks very silly. And they’ll often completely ignore the point you’re trying to make because of that. It’s like using the words “TrumpTard” and “DemoRats” in a political discussion. Even if you have a valid argument, using silly play-on-words and symbols like that greatly deflates your argument and pretty much signals to people your thoughts are not worth bothering with. You can write entire arguments to your points of the registry being a money scheme without coming off like a 14-year-old teenager.

        • TP @ Will

          Nice job jumping to conclusions when I was simply showing you that continuing writing like that will get you no where significant as it will be ignored. Presentation is everything.

        • Will Allen

          @TP (

          I don’t think I jumped to a single conclusion. I did ask you a number of questions though.

          I think you are right though that plenty of people, especially criminal politicians, will ignore me. Oh well, I guess. Their mistake. As I’ve told the criminals many times, my patience ended long ago and I’m the judge and jury today. Their opinions, and what they can and cannot be bothered to pay attention to, don’t matter. I’ve retaliated and will continue. Talk is cheap.

        • Will Allen

          @SR (

          Thanks for your feedback.

          You might be quite right. However, I can name a pile of political activists right off the top of my head who use such language constructs and people are definitely listening to them. They are making literally millions a year doing it. People are listening and reacting. And paying.

          But again, perhaps you are right and I do expect it has a lot to do with the reader. They should read and believe my thoughts because they reflect reality. If they get tripped up over a few words here and there then they further confirm they are the fools they are.

        • jm from wi

          @ Will
          Will… as a lot of us know, you are prolific in your attacks on the registry. A suggestion to add to your arsenal and your approach is a blurb giving $ spent each year on the registry. Derek Logue has some figures on his website. Wikipedia has figures. Sosen has studies. Money and power are the engines behind the registration. The initial cost of implementing sorna is a half a billion. The cost to run sorna is close to that / year. Add in GPS, forced ineffective therapy, polygraphs, compliance checks, prison space, civil commitment…. projected 20 year cost of SORNA and the ineffective registry is ? 500 billion ?

        • M C

          @Jim in WI, SORNA and the SMART office that goes with it is an out of control machine. They literally come up with new ways to expend taxpayers money based on logic that might seem like common sense but is proven false statistically. All they really care about is expanding their operations as much as possible, getting bigger, nicer offices and getting as much money to run it as possible. Take IML for example, did this law come out of nowhere from the guy who wrote it or did a government entity lobby him to get it to bring in more money to expand their operations unnecessarily? Everything they want to accomplish with IML doesn’t need an Angel Watch Center or a special law like this to prevent what it is trying to prevent. They can prevent child sex tourism and trafficking the way they did before it this agency ever existed and get, for all intensive purposes, the same result. In my opinion taxpayers should be outraged about much of this but it’s just not happening because the drink the kool-aid given to them by these government entities and the politicians.

  42. joe

    @TP, Exactly!

    • Sheldon

      I would like to know if the first does that went to court if they have to register. If they don’t that’s discrimination. If all of us do not get off the registry this time around I am done with this country FOR GOOD!!!!!

  43. R33

    Where can I find the aclu phone call form Monday

    • Dave

      FEB. 18, 2020:
      A phone conference for Michigan registrants was held on Monday, Feb. 17 with ACLU Senior Attorney Miriam Aukerman and Oliver Law Group Attorney Alyson Oliver to update registrants on the implications of Friday’s ruling. A recording of this call will be posted on this webpage by Wednessday, Feb. 19.

      To continue to ask questions, please email: or call: (313) 578-6829, and leave a message.

      U.S. District Judge Robert Cleland ruled to provide relief for registrants on the Michigan Sex Offender Registration Act. Judge Cleland ordered that if the legislature does not bring the law into compliance with constitutional requirements, the state will no longer be able to enforce the law against pre-2011 registrants.

  44. TnT

    @ ….. Sheldon… That’s a Great question , Does Doe #1 still have to register ????? If not, how can they force Doe#2 too ???

  45. Disturbed In MI

    First time posting, but I’ve been watching for awhile thought I would share this..

  46. Gralphr

    Did Michigan have lifetime registration prior to 2011? What if someones conviction was due to accusations in March 2000? Considering Sorna came later, would they still have lifetime registration?

    • Disgusted in Michigan

      @Gralphr no. Prior to the 2011 amendment there was no lifetime registration in Michigan. The max was 25 years. The 2011 amendment created the tier system changing certain offenses from 25 years to life. It was based solely on the crime, not the likelhood of reoffending. This is one of the reasons the class action was brought to the court. I was originally scheduled to come off the registry in 2018 but after the amendment was enacted it was retroactively applied to everyone changing their 25 years to life.

      • CM

        @Disgusted: That is incorrect. There was lifetime registration pre-2011. The 2011 amendment just increased the number who were subject to lifetime registration by adding the tier system. Here is a look at the 2009 amendment changes in case someone is looking for them

        • Disgusted in Michigan

          @CM I stand corrected. With all the changes to it over the years it’s difficult to keep up with it, just like when it used to be a one time $35 fee but was later changed to $50 a year. I was never notified about that until I went to verify and was listed noncompliant because I didn’t have the cash on me and they wouldn’t accept a debut card. I had to lose a day’s wages at work later that week just to go to the bank to get cash to appease the ducking Nazis. So all said and done that change costed me an additional $180 for having to take the day off work.

  47. Bobby S.

    Hello, everyone,

    I sent an email to Tim from the ACLU, with a couple of questions I had from the broadcast from the other, day, and he emailed me back with some answers, even answers that some people were wondering about, but in one of his answers I don’t understand how some one like me and others, who were convicted in the early 1990’s before the registry went into play would be recaptured what ever that means, yes I was on parole when the registry went into effect, I was released from parole on 11-22-1996. As most of you know I had to do 25 years until it was changed to life, it will be 28 years on 6-19-1992, so he said yes I would be removed, unless I am recaptured, again what does that mean? and how could they recapture me or anyone in the same boat as myself. Anyway here is his responds.

    HIM: No you will not have to pay the fee once removed. 
    You will not be removed until a new law is written or the order goes into effect.
    I should note that if the order goes into effect without a law being written then the state could then write a new law and recapture those who got off because of the order. If the do that we will be in court again. Also note should be made that the order of 60 days does not take effect until the order is in place with the court and with think that will be sometime in March. 

    Respectfully Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist 
    You will not be removed until a new law is written or the order goes into effect.
    I should note that if the order goes into effect without a law being written then the state could then write a new law and recapture those who got off because of the order. If the do that we will be in court again. Also note should be made that the order of 60 days does not take effect until the order is in place with the court and with think that will be sometime in March. 

    Respectfully Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist 

    • Josh

      @BobbyS….I’m going to lay it out for you very simply and in plain language. The state of Michigan can and probably will adopt the federal SORNA statute that has been ruled Constitutional. Ours(Michigan) has been ruled largely invalid(no good) the state will have 60 days from when they enter the order(March 13ish) to enact legislation that will meet constitutional standards. If the state of Michigan gets this done before the 60 days there is a chance that we NEVER get off the registry. The other thing that could happen is that the state doesn’t meet the deadline or the governor vetoes the new legislation and we come off the registry. That would only likely be a very short period of time. The state can pass a new law after that and retroactively add us back on the new registry. That’s the recapture part. It doesn’t matter about your story or your case! We all know the facts, you don’t have to keep reciting them to us. We ALL understand how unfair and what total BULLSHIT this is. You just need to understand that we may get NOTHING out of this or very little. It’s a very real possibility given the federal money at stake and a election year to boot that we’re not looking at a positive outcome here. I was glad to hear that at least the ACLU won’t give up on us if the outcome is as we think…anybody else want to chime in or correct anything I’ve said?

      • RickO

        If this could possibly end up staying the same in the end, all of this work seems pointless. And the way you explain it sounds extremely pointless.

      • Confused

        I just read the SORNA law, and Michigan’s system–the one that was just found unconstitutional on several levels–seems exactly the same as SORNA (minus the yearly fees and geographical restrictions). How could they replace the current system with an identical system and pass constitutional muster?

        I don’t think they can. I’m not an optimist in this at all, but that would literally bring with it the same ex post facto issues that have clearly been ruled unconstitutional, despite some previous rulings (in other courts of appeal? SCOTUS?) supposedly finding SORNA constitutional in and of itself.

        I have no idea what the state will possibly do, but I guess two things:

        1-Do nothing (ever wonder why Michigan has the most lax home schooling laws in the country? Is it because Michigan respects individual educational freedom? lol. No, it’s because it had the most restrictive laws in the country, they were found unconstitutional, and the inept legislature never replaced them). Never underestimate a legislature’s inability to actually pass meaningful, vaguely constitutional legislation, much less on a 60 day deadline. The GOP senators and reps might throw up their hands and say “Wow, look what these out of control judges did! Oh well, guess we’re stuck with it” and silently be happy that, without geographic zoning laws to protect their neighborhoods, Michigan house prices will not face reductions due to the country’s biggest per capita SOR.

        2-Do the minimum. Pass a simplified, stripped down bill that might not give anyone relief immediately but will likely have some arbitrary number of years (25? which is what I’m facing now so this ain’t helping me, I’m sure of it) attached to it for registration and hopefully simpler reporting requirements. That $50 fee will be there though, count on that.

        • JohnDoeUtah

          The best way to challenge the fee is through the State Courts, the feds do not have jurisdiction due to the Tax Injunction Act. I am suing on the state level over this as we speak.

      • David

        Yes, Josh, I’ll respond. SCOTUS ruled the Alaska’s Registry was not unconstitutional in 2003’s Smith v. Doe case. But that Registry’s requirements were minimal: mail-in registration once a year, etc. Now, 17 years later, each State’s Registry requirements far exceed what was then declared as not unconstitutional and, I believe, there’s a good chance that SCOTUS – if they ever grant cert to a Registry case – will find States’ current requirements to be excessive, clearly punitive, and unconstitutionally Ex Post Facto.
        With luck, SCOTUS might take up the worst of the worst: “FLORIDA” and its beat-them-down, kick-them, spit-on-them, then throw-them-in-prison-for-life Registry requirements.

  48. M C

    @Bobby S, it depends entirely on the new law written. Any state can basically recapture anyone regardless of whether or not they currently are required to register by simply creating a law that says that anyone convicted of a particular type of sex offense must register for some number of years or for lifetime. As long as its doesn’t cross the line from registration to being punitive there is no ex post facto argument to be made. You could be off a registry for 40 years and still be recaptured in this way. As an example, Florida makes someone moving there or visiting there from another state go on their registry in precisely this way. I have not been on a registry for nearly 10 years and my offense is 22 years old. I haven’t re-offended and wont ever. Still, if I go to Florida for more than 3 days I would have to go on their registry based on the way their law is written AND then they wouldn’t ever even take me off!

    • David

      @ M C: Yes, this crazy foolishness needs to be fixed and – to Hell with each State having different registration requirements – if there is going to be a Registry, there needs to be one universal, easily understandable list of requirements without any Ex Post Facto requirement. You could be off your State’s Registry for years and then a State like Florida charges you with a FTR felony because they have a 3-day registration requirement….or two-day…..or 24-hours. Total Bullsh#t! 😠

  49. MidnightMike

    Several states have revised their registry and made modifications so things are “Risk based”. That resulted in things like tier III offenders wearing GPS monitors for life, Civil commitment (locked up for life), chemical castration, public notifications via media, flyers or mail and other fun things like that. All of which are constitutional, provided they are “risk based”. Applying these laws Ex post Facto has passed constitutional muster as long as the lawmakers dot all the I’s and cross their T’s. It’s been my experience that the SOR laws don’t get better. Being tougher on sex offenders gets votes,,, setting them free does not. It concerns me that we are opening a can of worms like this.
    Making the registry legal and make sense,,, sure it could get better and them just take us all off the registry,,, IT COULD ALSO GET A LOT WORSE. I don’t remember a single revision that made my life easier.
    Michigan lawmakers will want to Make a new law that will make them look good,,,,, THAT ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIES ME. They live for votes,,, not what makes sense.
    Technology is also advancing. Cell phone applications can now alert us when we are in the proximity of where a SO works,, where he lives, or even where he is if GPS is active on the phone of the registered person. To me this ability is not much different then tattooing it on our foreheads.
    I think once a person is off supervision,,, they should be off supervision period. The better argument in my eyes is to make the point that they are singling out ONE class of offender. If one type of offender is placed on a list to warn the public about their past, then they all should be. If the public needs to know where someone is who committed a sex crime because of the danger to the public and children,,,,, then I don’t understand why they wouldn’t want to know if there is a murderer or a heroin dealer living next door or not want them going to places where children congregate.
    Revising the law isn’t the answer. It’s just gonna get even more stupid as the lawmakers take advantage of us for votes. Removing the law period, getting rid of anything that applies to only one class of offender to me is the argument to make. “All men are created equal”,,,, I’ve heard that someplace before.

    • Josh

      @Midnight Mike…. I think you bring up a good point about risk assessments and hopefully that could be point in our favor. If we’ve all been listed for X number of years without a subsequent arrest or conviction then we should have that factor work for us in terms of an assessment as long as the process isn’t bullshit like the static 99 or a tier designation based solely on the wording of your conviction! I know very unrealistic as common sense never prevails with this..

      • MidnightMike

        Haha. When has it ever worked in our favor??? The model that most states with risk assessment use,,,, is they send your file to the Department of corrections for review and risk classification. Anything that would make you tier three (which is why we have tier III) is considered “High risk to reoffend”.
        Confused hit the nail on the head. “They already have nearly the same FED law that has passed constitutional muster”. The state gets 5 mil a year to follow SORNA guidelines. The only reason our law was shut down is because Michigan took things a step or two further. For example: the recapture law in SORNA makes you tier 3 with two sex offenses. Michigan decided tier 3 for any second felony conviction. Your sex crime could be 60 years old. Any felony conviction that follows equals registration for life in Michigan. Not so in the fed law. There are slight differences,,, but it isn’t much. SORNA has already been challenged on constitutional grounds and upheld in 13 different states. It’s still unconstitutional!!! But the judges seem to be going with it.
        The biggest danger of “risk assessment” is that if they deem you say “likely to reoffend” when the doc looks at your file it can be used to justify even worse treatment as I mentioned earlier, such as locking us back up. IMO risk assessment is something most would rather avoid. High risk to reoffend stamped on your file can lead to some really bad things.
        Also myself,,, Even if they don’t pass the new law in time. I’d be scared that the fed law I’m breaking by not registering could bite me in the butt. With fed SORNA in place and strong,,,, I have little hope that myself or most of the people affected ex post facto will get any actual relief. More like a “same thing only federal” situation like when weed first became legal here. Even so,,,, relief is expected to be only till a new law passes and we are back in the same boat,,,,, again.
        At one time I thought death was the only way off the registry,,,, haha,,, I might not even get off then!

        • RickO

          Im missing the point of fighting this if we are going to be in the same place as before?

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