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National

MI: Federal judge invalidates portions of SORA

A federal judge has issued a ruling that invalidates portions of Michigan’s Sex Offender Registry Act (SORA) that are unconstitutional.

U.S. District Court Judge Robert Cleland issued the decision on Friday in a lawsuit that argued the SORA was unconstitutional. Full Article

Court Decision

Press Release from the Michigan ACLU

Related

https://mitchellhamline.edu/sex-offense-litigation-policy/2020/02/14/john-doe-et-al-v-richard-snyder-e-d-mich-2020/

Join the discussion

  1. Warpath

    If it gets worse, I am done. I will NOT live like this anymore. I don’t think anyone would care. This isn’t living. It’s begging for scraps of life. This entire thing has driven me to the depths of despair and depression that I have never known. I can not imagine living my life like this for another 20-25 years only to die being denied even a shred of dignity. All of this for 6 fucking deleted photos of ‘possibly’ 16-17 year old girls found forensically. I served my country, saved lives and raised a family. My wife passed away, my son died, I’ve lost all that I had just so some fucked up politician can get a few votes. I love my country but loathe the government and the media. I pray to God every day that something horrible happens. These pieces of shit politicians and the police that enforce there illegal laws will face St Peter one day and have to justify their actions. I will be standing there laughing as he sends them all to hell.

    I guess I hope that you are wrong about it getting worse. As the previous paragraph shows, my state of mind is not good. It’s not in me to hurt anyone except myself. I am close to the decision. I still have a few things keeping me alive. If those are taken from me then I would have no reason to continue. I’ve thought this through. My heart and spirit are broken. When the pain of living surpasses the pain of dying…..then you will die.

    • John

      So as long as this continues to be put off sections of the SORA will not be able to be enforced for all people past present and future such as where you live those horrid zones that they have assigned (1000 ft from school 500 from playgrounds) and helping your kids at school… this needs to change as this is the very definition of cruel and unusual punishment forcing people into poverty for a lifetime…

  2. Dave

    Video of the phone conference is posted.

    https://www.aclumich.org/en/SORA

  3. P31

    Please everyone stop being baited into listening to these negative fools that have nothing better to do then come on here and make other people’s lives miserable. That’s all they talk about is how things are going to get worse or how nothing will change. I was in prison with people like this, they spend day in and day out doing nothing but being miserable and want you to be miserable. All I heard in prison was how the parole board would never release me on my first attempt. Newsflash, they were wrong!! Now these couple wannabe lawyers say nothing will change, well things have already started to change. When did any of you who think they know so much, when did you become lawyers??? If you don’t think things will change, then go away!!! Pathetic!!

    • chris

      P31. Ur right. It’s funny to see some if the comments on here about how things are gonna get worse. Then turn around and say the aclu is doing a good job. My question is why the hell do u think the aclu is fighting for? For things to get worse. Lol. I mean the are several reasons to b negative but in this instance we all have to let the cards fall where they may. We all talk bout how bad it is for sex offenders do we really think it could b worse. Lmao. Technically it could but not by much. So just take it easy folks let everything fall into place and see what happens. Btw michigan is in ALOT better predicament then about 90% of the remaining states

    • R33

      @P31 you are 100 percent correct I just listened to the call I think everyone should re watch it and listen to the whole thing

    • Identityzer0

      I consistently brought this issue to the ACLU since 1999 when I was put on due to a law change while I was in prison. They ignored me every 3 months like clockwork and then even used some of my drafts in the initial suit.

  4. jm from wi

    @ Warpath
    Where’s the fighting spirit? Get started on your quest. Research IML Get stats together. Don’t give up. Don’t let the bastards win.

  5. Warpath

    P31 sorry to bring you down. I’ve just been through this so many times. I never claimed to be a lawyer. If you were in prison then you know how bad things can be. I am typically the guy trying to help others understand. My days are mostly good but occasionally bad. In the past few days I went through a reminder of the piece of shite society believes I am. If I disappointed you with my honest words I apologize. I am one of the people spending tens of thousands of dollars on attorneys trying to fight this inhumanity. Probably shouldn’t have shared my negative thoughts.

    In the mean time I have another project gathering data hopefully for one more legal challenge. I will most probably be broke after that…..going down fighting

  6. joe

    I watched the phone conference that @Dave has posted, It is encouraging for sure. What I found most positive is that Miriam Aukerman said that the state’s new law can not just be a different version of the law we have now. It must not have the parts in it that Judge Cleland ruled unconstitutional. What did worry me was she also did say that the state could appeal the Judge’s decision. But she also added that the state does not to continue fighting this either, because it cost the state money and time to do so. Overall I believe we are in a great place now, better than we have been in many years. So stay positive and I recommend watching the conference.
    Thanks to the ACLU, Oliver Law Group, U of M law Clinic and everyone that participates on this site.

  7. Chris

    Ricko. Exactly. Or worse like some people think. We all know the registry is bad so it cant get much worse.

  8. Rodger

    I’m in touch with the aclu I’m positive this will go good for us they work hard to try to give us a fair shake at this I have told aclu that I’m willing to go down and talk with the state and tell them my story and what’s wrong with the registry now and how it is destroying us and our family’s I just ask everyone to try and stay positive during this time while they work on this I’ll do what I can in my power to let state knkw on how bad this has messed everyone up and our lives. I have been on for 25 years I was a minor and charged as a minor so yes this system dose “t work and I’m hoping at the end of the day I’ll get my my say in the state and make them see what they are doing is wrong and how they can make it better for us as people to live a life with ease. I have studied all the law changes since 1994 till now and have seen what has gone wrong I’m very educated on all this I’m going threw the same as all of you but I will take a stand for us and make sure they hear me. So let’s stay positive and see what they come up with and we will take it from there

  9. Bobby S.

    @Rodger, Thank you for standing up for us very much appreciated

    To everyone else do anyone receive this email from the FAC,( Florida Action Committee ?

    I guess there was a lot of questions about are win here in Michigan, one certain part should ease some people’s minds hopefully, so here it is folks.

    https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/ACSBdhBRVJoIXk6pfgFjeKsEF00?.src=ym&reason=unsupported_browser&showImages=true&offset=0

  10. Bobby S.

    Sorry everyone, I don’t know why it didn’t work, it did work when I tested it, so I copied and pasted it this time so hopefully it works this time. agin sorry about the mess up.

    12671-2
    by FAC Contributor #6
    Weekly Update for 2020-02-19
     
    Dear Members and Advocates,
    Persons forced to register in Michigan added another win to their column last week when a Federal District Court Judge ruled that if the Michigan Legislature did not “fix” their unconstitutional registry within 60 days, the state could not enforce its registry against anyone pre-2011 and could not enforce certain provisions of the registry against those post-2011. Some of you reacted with the concern that the legislature will only come back within 60 days and enact something harsher. The answer to that concern is that they can’t!
    By “fix” the registry, the Court is telling the legislature to rewrite the Statute to remove all of the elements that make it unconstitutional. Those elements include the vague restriction against working, loitering, or residing in a “student safety zone”, reporting of phone numbers or vehicles “regularly used”. The elements that must be removed are also the reporting of electronic mail or instant message address, or any other designations used in internet communications or postings, which have been found to violate the First Amendment. And potentially most importantly, to be found in violation of the registry will require a showing that the violation was knowing! Currently in Michigan (as is the case in Florida), you can’t argue that you didn’t know about a requirement or nobody told you that you had to….
    This Court has given the State the parameters they need to “fix” – a roadmap for a registry that will pass constitutional muster. The 6th Circuit Court of Appeals (and even the Supreme Court) endorsed that roadmap. The fact that the Legislature has done nothing to fix it has required the Plaintiffs to come back to court and the Judge to assign a deadline, and “until such time as the legislature acts, SORA will be unenforceable against a large portion of registrants and may be enforced only in part against the remaining registrants.”
    Sure, it would have been ideal for the Court to abolish the whole statute and send everyone on their way, but that was never a realistic possibility. Our biggest concern before this order came out, as I had mentioned in a previous update, that registrants in Michigan would be in the same boat a year from now, which now we know they wont and we also know some of the restrictions that they will no longer be subject to. It is a huge win.
    Some of you also asked what this means for us here in Florida. Anytime another jurisdiction gets a win, it’s good news. Although it is not binding on us here in Florida, it gives us the ability to go into court on one of our cases and say to a judge, “your Honor, this is what they had in Michigan, these provisions are similar to what we have here in Florida (in fact Florida is harsher in most cases), and here is what their Court had to say about it!”. Unquestionably, this decision will be brought to the Court’s attention in Does 1-5 v. Swearingen, Florida’s “Ex Post Facto Plus” case.
    Another item of confirmation we received this past week is a correspondence from the Florida Department of Education that there is nothing in the Florida Statutes that would preclude an individual on the registry (who is not on probation, whose victim is not attending the school, who is not subject to some other court order like a trespass or restraining order) from attending an event at their child’s school, so long as they meet certain requirements, specifically (1) Provide written notification of his or her intent to be present to the school board, superintendent, principal, or child care facility owner; (2) Notify the child care facility owner or the school principal’s office when he or she arrives and departs the child care facility or school; or (3) Remain under direct supervision of a school official or designated chaperone when present in the vicinity of children.
    If you have a child in the public school system and you comply with one of the three requirements above, you should be allowed to attend to their parent teacher conferences and other school functions. Note that local school districts (or municipalities) might have their own rules. If your child’s school is preventing you from being involved in their educational process, we suggest you politely remind them of the State statute and the Florida Department of Education position and if that doesn’t alleviate the issue, find out, specifically, under what authority they are acting and let us know. No child should be deprived of a parent!
    Sincerely,
    The Florida Action Committee

    Reminders:
    Amazon Smile – select (FAC Outreach Partner “Justice Transitions, Sanford FL” as your charity.  Make purchases using https://smile.amazon.com in order to be certain that Justice Transitions (and FAC members) benefit from your purchases.
    Wed Feb 26 – Free Registrant Peer Support group (no therapist) meets in Pinellas Park area at 5:30 pm.
    Thu Feb 20 – Local Meet-and-Greet in Lakeland (Polk County).
    Fri Feb 28- Free therapist-led Family Support session (no registrants) meets at 7pm in Tampa.
    Sat Mar 7.  Free therapist-led Family Support session (no registrants) meets from 11am-1pm in Central Broward.
    Seating is limited for all events. For more information, or to RSVP email membership@floridaactioncommittee.org or call 904-452-8322.  No children please.

    SOME HEADLINES FROM THIS WEEK
     Southern Baptist Convention Kicks Out Church With Registrant Pastor
    Ranchland Heights Baptist Church in Midland, which has been pastored by a man required to register as a sex offender because of a conviction 17 years ago, has been ousted by the Southern Baptist Convention. Four years ago, the Church was questioned by the Houston…
    Florida Department of Education Responds to Letter
    We are not aware of any restrictions in Florida’s sex offender registration statutes related to a registrant’s ability to participate in or be present at school functions or meetings. There is a procedure outlined in section 856.022, Florida Statutes, that applies when a registrant plans to attend an event at a child care facility or school.
    Member Submission: My First Experience Traveling as a Sex Offender
    Part 1 Volusia County Florida . This is a recollection of my first travel outside of my state (Florida) to Chicago suburbs for a family event. I went to the VCSO in Volusia county and…
    MN: Another lawsuit challenging residency restrictions
    A group of convicted sex offenders has filed a federal lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of a far-reaching ordinance in Apple Valley that severely restricts where they can live, alleging that the ordinance effectively bars them from living anywhere in the…
     

    FAC Contributor #6 | February 20, 2020 at 10:44 am | Categories: Weekly Updates | URL: https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=12671

  11. Mm

    I thought this was a very well written article explaining some damages caused by the registry. Might be a good one to forward with letters??? Plus it has a catchy title.

    https://narsol.org/2020/02/sexual-offender-residency-restrictions-unscientific-wasteful-useless/

  12. Mm

    Here is another good example of the damages the registry causes and the blatant discrimination from a Taxpayer funded institution of higher learning…. Higher learning is for adults,,,, if they were dangerous they wouldn’t be there trying to better themselves. They aren’t banning murderers, or drunk drivers, or drug dealers….. again I think the best argument is for equality in the treatment of ex offenders period. Also,,,, more evidence that just being in the registry is Punishment.

    https://www.communitycollegereview.com/amp/blog/sex-offenders-banned-on-community-college-campuses

    • New Person

      Banishment is punishment. Also, preventing one from higher education probably is also a constitutional violation.

  13. David

    Ban ‘child sex offenders’ from community college campus!? That’s outrageous!! 😠 Will they be checking the criminal records of all students registering to attend the college? How about things like domestic violence? Aggravated assault? Identity theft? Don’t these also put their other students at risk? And what about vandalism? Public intoxication? Terrorist threats?

    Oh, that’s right, individuals convicted of sexual offenses are once again very obviously singled out simply because the government provides an easily accessible, free-to-access online registry that allows colleges, businesses, and individuals to screen for sex offenders.
    If the college had to pay for criminal background checks for all individuals wishing to attend, clearly they would not be willing to bear that additional expense.

    It is clear that online sex offense registries are used again and again for discriminatory purposes far in excess of mere public safety and community awareness. 😠
    Maybe it’s time for a new requirement to be added before one is allowed to view an online registry ….. A requirement that one must acknowledge that their use of the registry will not be for any discriminatory purpose and that they will be liable to criminal prosecution as well as civil penalties if they violate that prohibition.
    There needs to be criminal and civil penalties for misuse of registries. 😠

    • Mm

      Gov of NY is pushing for a ban of sex offenders on subways, busses, and public transportation,,, even tho 95% of sex offenses that occur in those places are committed by people not on the registry. Tell me just being on the registry isn’t some sort of disability, especially in a place that relies so heavily on public transportation. Statistic wise it makes more sense to ban anyone not convicted of a sex offense. its not going to solve anything. I think this article hits the nail on the head. “The registry isn’t a solution to a problem, It’s a performance”.
      I think the ACLU should sue and make them change the name of the registry to “EX SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY” then make them pay damage for labeling us all improperly and causing all this mess to begin with. Calling it a sex offender registry makes it sound like the people on it are waiting on the bushes to jump out and grab a little kid right now. When in truth every single one that’s ever been in the system for a sex offense has had the privilege of attending the best sex offender programs available to teach men not to act out sexually. They are keenly aware of the consequences of offending and way less likely to step over the line!!!

      https://mailchi.mp/theappeal/daily-appeal-347735?e=93ea1bd909

    • Warpath

      Old news. They were sued and the reversed the order

  14. David

    👍 Hooray for media that tie these four words together: “unconstitutional sex offender registry”! 👍

    “State must recast sex offender law or give it up, judge rules – Spartan Newsroom”
    https://news.jrn.msu.edu/2020/02/state-must-recast-sex-offender-law-or-give-it-up-judge-rules/

    • Sheldon

      I just recently found a podcast on you tube thats called registry matters, if anyone has never heard of it its a very good podcast to listen to. i thought I just mention it, if anyone is curious.

  15. @will Allen 666

    Don’t listen to will allen he is a nut case he is trying to be a one mane army everyone has asked him what he did to be put on the list he won’t say!!! Hey will allen stop you don’t know anything

    • Will Allen

      Sure, I sound much nuttier than you. Much less informed as well. Yep.

      “Everyone has asked him what he did …” is 100% false. In fact, very, very few people have asked me. But meh, facts.

      I was put on for public indecency. Not that it is relevant or any of your business or literally anyone else’s. Feel better?

      I usually don’t/won’t talk about anything related to anything I did or didn’t do because Registries are not legitimate. My case was fully completed decades ago. It is no one’s business.

      • M C

        For the record, not everyone thinks Will Allen is a nut case. I definitely don’t. A bit of a radical viewpoint perhaps and maybe a more unusual approach to fighting the registry but I don’t see anything wrong with it at all if that’s the way he wants to approach it. In many cases he’s right too. We can play wack-a-mole with new registry rules through the courts all day long and in the end they will just keep making new ones. Regardless of the Smith v. Doe decision, the intent of the majority of people voting and the government is to punish forever anyone who has done even the most minor of sex offenses. Even if the Smith v. Doe decision was completely reversed, they would try and make new registry laws that circumvent the decision by manipulating its text for new registry laws. This is not going to stop, probably at least not in our lifetime and the people currently making these laws will be set in these ways as long as they are around. Maybe future generations in government will see how ridiculous it is eventually but its not going to happen until those people are in government and are the ones controlling our society, and that depends on whether they even have a changed viewpoint from previous generations on the subject. That said, using the courts to mitigate the effects of laws created now as much as possible is a necessary approach but they are just temporary fixes.

  16. Tim in WI

    Upon adoption of the database driven regime placing human privacy subservient to the people’s right to know gutted the republic in many ways yet to be understood.

  17. 666

    This hole thing if I say certain sex offenders should have to register or have to be treated differently I’m a bad guy. F×$k off I mean if you did it twice you deserve to be nailed to a cross like your so called Jesus

  18. bill

    Has any one else been wondering about this coronavirus & registering i think this is a very big problem, it will spread this all through the police department and their families,as we pass ID’s Etc..Know would want it to spread ! any one have a opinion??????????

    • R M

      @ bill: I am worried about this virus yet still deciding what will become of it as there are very conflicting statements and predictions from medical professionals, governments, and opinionated media.

      The virus is now in every country except Antarctica according to news I heard this morning; medical professionals such as the CDC and WHO say a pandemic is likely as their is no antivirus and won’t be for 1 1/2 years yet governments push that it won’t spread that much. Media is as confused as the rest of the world.

      IF a pandemic does occur how will it affect us? Hard to say.

  19. bill

    Did anyone Else listen to the phone conference last night on The newest MI. class case, They was saying if you was pre o6? the police was not requiring you to register,( but make sure you go and try)???? I called and they told me I need to ????, the call last night keep stopping so I couldn’t get it all? Has anyone else tried to register lately. what do you think of this?

    • Matt

      I just contacted Michigan State police. I have been removed from requiring to register. The key is…..”for now”.
      My friend also was removed from registry today.
      Both of our cases are OVER 30 years ago.

      • Will

        How did you get removed my case is also 30yrs old

        • cm

          I went today to register (I am a 2009 offense date Tier 3) and pay my $50.00 at the Metro State Police Post in Oak Park. I was told that not only did I not have to pay, I no longer needed to register. (For the time being) Out of curiosity, I checked the registery and I am still listed. However, they have taken the Compliant status off and that is all I can see ass for changes

  20. TS

    (This is an intentional repost in this thread which I believe is the more correct thread to comment on with the comment below)

    All in MI –

    From a data standpoint, I hope many, if not all, in MI, of those who are forced to register and others who work with/for them, are noticing how much work it actually takes to admin the registry daily for those who really shouldn’t be on it now anyway.

    I say this because they should note the time, money (time = money too), and labor (labor = money too) required to create/update/admin something that is nothing more than comfort food for those who live in fear and in addiction to fear.

    Those who are in MI and forced to participate in this scheme (and those related in some way to them) are hopefully gathering the data here from those who are sharing their stories since confusion as started to reign due to the Judge’s direction and should hopefully be thinking about asking their local MSP office in addition to the MSP HQ, et al, who deal with the system to find out the data currently being generated as noted by “notes in the system” and not taking in the fee.

    Using this data, one can then create a comprehensive argument to show the idiocy of the entire thinking behind the system and the relative costs, in whatever metric you want to show. This is a prime opportunity, IMO, to show with science of data from those who are clean from years gone by what is really is needed. One can start by doing FOIA requests, legislative data requests, etc to start to build what is needed to be known. Share that with legislators and fight for what is right and constitutional. Again, no registries is the end state we all want, but until then, do some intermediary steps to help cut it down.

    Best wishes and prayers for those who are positively being impacted by the Judge’s direction today and hope it continues in the future for you as elected officials decide what to do.

  21. Martell

    So I feel like this needs to be said in General. I was taking into custody when I was 18. I was convicted in 2005 in Illinois. (5) years at 85%. Totaled out to 4 years and 3 months. I served my sentence and paroled in 2008. I had a relationship with a girl who was in my HS. I have been out since 2008 and had to do 2 years of parole and if I had of violated my parole then I would have to do 85% of the parole time which would have made it so I would have done over the time the Judge sentenced me. There’s an injustice! Then I move to Michigan in 2010 where I was told that I only had to register for 20 years and then I would be done even though my conviction state stated that I would have to for life. Michigan told Illinois that as long as I lived here that they would only require a 20 year. Well fast forward to the Tier system. That messed things up and changed requirements along with a $50 yearly.

    Now I’m sitting here wondering if any of these Judgements will help an outter stater?

    Also. To be honest I know that there are people who do belong on this list. But I always say if someone has done something so bad then why do they allow them out? Why not increase the penalty for sex crimes and maybe that would create a deterrent. Sex crimes usually have a mental issue that coincides with the crime. And since it has been proven that this does not keep any safe then why does the list need to be public. I understand the need for law enforcement to have this. But A public with vigilantism and ignorance? That’s not ok. That is a direct violation of our rights to privacy. But here’s a thought, if registrants are so dangerous why allow these people out if they are a danger to society. Everyone of the registries doesn’t belong on it. Utilize the law enforcement to work on persons who truly need it if it has to be a system that is being used. We already have an FBI number. We already served the time sentenced. Let the ones out right now be! Change the law going forward to something that can be maintained and helps the community out instead of the political fear driven laws that truly only cost money and waste time. So much more to say but my kids and pets are distracting me and need attention 😊

    • Dustin

      @ Martell: With all due respect I take issue with your second paragraph.

      1. Nobody needs to be on the registry. There shouldn’t even be a registry. The “people who belong on this list” (as you put it) will always show indications of necessity of excessive supervision, restrictions and obligations outside of the name of the statute they violated, and existing laws already account for that.

      2. Sex crimes do not “usually have a mental issue that coincides with the crime” (again, as you put it). The overwhelming majority of sex crime is the result of ignorance or poor judgment, nothing more. Yes, there are some mentally imbalanced registrants, to be sure. But they are the exception, not the rule. Poor judgment is NOT a mental health problem; just because a person makes a decision that is unwise, illegal, or just plain stupid in any way doesn’t mean they are mentally incapable of making them.

      Also consider that the law presumes sanity when crimes are committed and courts verify sanity at trials/plea hearings. “Treatment” is mandated in prison, yet the court presumes you need “treatment” upon release based on, what? The fact that you committed a certain crime, despite being perfectly sane at the time.

      3. Law enforcement doesn’t need a sex offender registry. They all have access to the National Crime Information Center and the state counterparts that feed it. Nor is there anything on the registry that isn’t in the NCIC. If they want to create their own database, they can. But it should be their problem to keep it current, not the registrants. I guarantee you if that’s how it was, it would stop in one year. Fact is, for the most part, registrants aren’t committing the crimes that the registry supposedly prevents. Remove status offenses (registry, parole, or probation), I doubt there would be 500 arrests in the country in any given year. The ONLY reason LE likes the registry is to get bigger grants to maintain them, less than half of which (on average) is actually spent doing so.

      • nick

        So…will the Michigan lawmakers ask for more time because of the corona virus or will they leave it up to Judge Cleland?

        • Josh

          @Nick….as of yesterday the current plan was for the Eastern District court to remain open. That’s where Cleland presides. As to the state and what they might try to pull, who knows? I wouldn’t put anything past them…I thought the deadline to get the order of judgement entered by tomorrow, March 13 was a hard deadline. The guy who spoke in the first hour of the acsol/narsol conference call regarding Michigan last week said something different like it could take until the end of the month. But please don’t quote me as I could have heard it all wrong. If I’m wrong please correct me. Hoping it’s tomorrow!

        • Paul B

          Nick, My hope is that they can use the Coronavirus to quietly do the right thing. You know that law makers are avoiding doing anything because it is career suicide, but if they slip it in before the dust settles we may come out on top.

  22. MidnightMike

    I found this video of the actual hearing in the betts case. The prosecutors argument is so weak and the ACLU is doing such a good job making their point. Watching this gave me confidence that things may change soon. I can’t wait to hear the decision. Let me know what you think???? https://youtu.be/mmZiIL7zLbo

    • Josh

      @Midnight…yeah that hearing took place back in March. It was a really decent showing for our side! Still not sure what’s holding up that case but I’m pretty sure Mr. Betts issues are possibly resolved by what’s going on now with Does II.

    • G4Change

      WOW…I just watched this. Yes, the prosecutor’s arguments are very anemic. It’s funny how he repeatedly said that the 6th Circuit’s Does decision essentially went against the previous SCOTUS ruling on the Ex Post Facto matter. Yet it’s funny how SCOTUS refused to hear the case on appeal after that ruling.
      The prosecutor brags that his daughter just graduated from Harvard Law School. I bet she’ll be a much better attorney than he ever was!

    • Dustin

      A couple of observations.

      1. The attorney for the state is an idiot.

      a. In-person reporting isn’t at all like probation because probation involves peeing in a cup, being told where you can and can’t go, and having a probation officer telling you what to do all the time. Granted, the random drug testing isn’t there, but he deliberately overlooks that a registry compliance officer does exactly that.

      b. “I had to report in person. I couldn’t make this argument from home.” Has he ever heard of Skype? Video teleconferencing (which many local courts use in lieu of transporting jail inmates)? Exactly what point did he make other than being proud of his daughter (which has no bearing in the case that I can see) that wasn’t in his brief?

      c. Asked if in person reporting could be excessive, referred to whatever court said it wasn’t. When the Chief Justice asked his personal opinion if, say, it were required 3 times a day, claimed he wasn’t prepared to answer that.

      d. Wondered what made the 6th Circuit think “their test was better than the Supreme Court’s”. It was the same test! Not to mention the Supreme Court’s refusal to grant certiorari, essentially upholding the 6th Circuit’s opinion. (That’s odd considering a difference of opinion among the circuits is one of the main criteria for the USSC to agree to hear an appeal, as I understand it) Considering every lawmaking body in the country has legislated out every characteristic of a civil regulation as defined by Smith v. Doe, it seems pretty foolish to me to cling to Smith to argue the registry is not punitive, x10 for the courts to keep finding it so.

      2. The Chief Justice claimed the legislature was “hard at work” to rewrite the registry. Seriously? Four years since Does v. Snyder and nothing; that’s “hard at work”?

    • New Person

      Wow!

      ACSOL can use the “no relief for those in tier-3, lifetime registration” as a disability as shared in this video.

      Also, here, she used the tactic that if one part of the scheme is unconstitutional, then the whole scheme is unconstitutional. In California, rather than utilize this tactic, we severed a bad part of the scheme rather than have the state re-write the scheme and absolve all those registrants who were imposed those presence and residency restrictions.

      Here’s what I don’t comprehend about the argument of in-person reporting with respect to SCOTUS’ Doe v Smith, their reporting was via the mail. It never engaged in-person reporting and Chief Justice Roberts also denoted that Alaska’s reporting was via the mail and skirts the disability of in-person reporting.

      Now, banishment… any form of banishment is punishment? Hmmm…

    • nick

      Paul B…I sure hope you’re right. Next comes the class action on the $50 fee and dealing with the secondary websites that list our info.

      • Paul B

        They can take any money they owe me and split between the awesome folks at ACLU and victims of sex crimes. I just want my freedom back.

  23. MidnightM

    I think there were more briefs filed in betts concerning the ability to just sever anything out of the 2011 law that would be considered punishment and have it continue to apply retroactively. Just Cleland did actually sort of decide the issue with Doe’s. But he was deciding only about Michigan SORA. She arguing really that Federal SORNA period is unconstitutional. Which it is. Just nobody wants to call it that. Another victory for our side in federal court would be a big deal right now especially if it said federal SORNA was punishment,,,, which is exactly what she is pushing for the court to say. THAT WOUKD BE A VERY BIG DEAL NATION WIDE. I agree that the fed court is more apt to say that judge clelands ruling already decides the issue if they want to be cautious. However I hope to see an actual ruling that would affect the fed law as well. We will see if the court straps them on or hands it off.
    There are a lot of cases in Alabama, Colorado, FL, PA,,, and the list goes on. It’s getting harder to ignore that the whole registry is unconstitutional. Hope to hear a good solid decision in this case against the registry as a whole. Every little bit helps. So far the defense has been to pass it off and not make any decisions that outright admit SORNA is punishment. It’s coming. ITS FOR SURE COMING SOMEDAY. May take forever for these guys to admit it but we all know the registry is doo doo.

  24. CM

    For those of you still following this thread: I went today to register (I am a 2009 offense date Tier 3) and pay my $50.00 at the Metro State Police Post in Oak Park. I was told that not only did I not have to pay, I no longer needed to register. (For the time being) Out of curiosity, I checked the register but it is down at this time.

    • Donewithit

      I got the same response in late February. They said to still come back at the next verification month

      • R33

        One thing I don’t understand is pre 2011 people got screwed so badly now they can rewrite the law again what do we get out of the deal cuz it’s already been determined that no amount of money can fix this issue.( it was said in one of the briefs.) So I don’t understand what dose the state learn from this?

        • Paul B

          Has any one received this letter that the State Police is saying is coming? If you have received it please let us all know what we are expecting.

      • CM

        Funny thing is the trooper, who has been there quite a while and usually handles this, said he hopes I don’t have to come back. He likes thing a lot better now just dealing with new registrants.

  25. TnT

    People we still need to remember that we ARE still citizens who VOTE and 250,000 votes does matter in the elections in this state , pay very close attention to this watch who is trying too force these unconstitutional laws against the citizens of this state, The people on this registry MUST vote , Make a difference . Write letters and stand up for what is right, express the damage this registry has done to not just you but everyone around you , NOT just sit back and say what can we do, I have been writing these fools for over 25 years , It hasn’t seem to help but if 250,000 people start … it WILL… write the governor , state reps , attorney general , let them know they are not only impacting us but our families as well .This registry causes no benefit it only Disables and allows HATE , Once a person serves their time they were given they should have the opportunity to reform to correct , Not just forever be a lost walking soul on this earth. Michigan is a sick place to think what they have done can still retroactively be applied to thousands in most cases years after a conviction , People Wake up it may take a 250,0000 registrant march or bring one family member half million on Lansings Capital steps to stop these dirty b@stards .Maybe even carry signs on the front sidewalks of their homes for a few weeks day and night ? See how fast it changes then .See how they and their families like being F%*ked with . Not to mention the yoyo B.S they are pulling now , You donnt have to register this month but you better come back again and see if you have too next time? or else ????? YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING RIGHT ??

    • R33

      Well said tnt

      • Josh

        There will be no letter until the order of judgement is entered….supposedly this coming Friday the 13th. We’ll see if that actually happens?

    • R M

      @TnT: I applaud your effort for people to vote. If I could I would. I’m not in Michigan.

  26. LJT

    Any updates?

  27. Dunc

    I went to register today, hoping that they would say “Sorry no verification for you”. I live in Ionia, Mi
    and they said they havent heard anything yet. So I had to register and dole out another $50.00
    Kind of pissed me off, but used to it. My conviction date was in 1987.
    Hopefully changes are coming soon

    • ConfusedGuy

      Was it a State Police post, Dunc? So far it seems like only the State Police posts are turning away registrants, which makes sense–they are privy to much more registry-related information than local police officers.

      Overall, I’m not very disappointed that the posting of the order was delayed a week. By this Friday, the state will be expected to have its messaging right, meaning they will have to have crafted the communiques to registrants, police forces, and the public (I think) about the consequences of the upcoming injunction. This would not be important if it were highly likely that a new law would be written and passed before the 60 day window passed. Their care in preparing this messaging to me suggests they anticipate that a new law will not be passed and this 60 day window will essentially be prep time for the state police to stop enforcing the registry and to remove pre-2011 names from the registry.

      Unfortunately, if you had waited a week, Dunc, you may have been able to avoid registering and paying the $50 at all, because next week local police departments should be instructed to stop registering or marking registrants as non-compliant if they are pre-2011. But that’s assuming there isn’t another delay, and assuming the current State Police policy resembles what will be state-wide policy for the next 60 days. Fingers crossed!

      • Josh

        I do my verification locally and not at a MSP post….I also have been waiting for the order to be entered so as not to waste a trip or $50 if I can avoid it….

      • Dunc

        ConfusedGuy… Nope it was the local Public Safety. I do believe I should have waited. Lol
        Hopefully no verification in June

  28. Samuel Benham

    Still not passed as far as I can tell, wasn’t even introduced into state house or senate til the 17th of March. Not passed still as of today.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billintroduced/House/pdf/2020-HIB-5679.pdf

    • Confusedguy

      They haven’t even debated it in committee yet.

      Anyone else think this “Listed persons” designation we receive is flat out bizarre? I had to read the initial definition of “Listed persons” several times before I began to understand it, and I probably missed several references to it in the bill. I’m not a lawyer and I’m not a policy wonk, and maybe it’s just me being optimistic but I feel like these changes to SORA are too complicated and poorly written to be enforceable.

    • Josh

      @Samuel Benham…….Of course HB 5679 hasn’t passed. It’s scheduled today for it’s first review by the judiciary committee. This is the second step after introduction….given the current crisis I’m not even sure it WILL be addressed today. EVERYBODY, PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE THIS BILL IS A DONE DEAL AND THIS IS GOING TO BE THE LAW!!!! There are so many discussions, arguments, reviews, & votes that have to happen before this makes it to the governor’s desk. She then has to sign it and that’s not guaranteed either. Also, please remember that we’re waiting on the final order of judgement in Does ll……that will be a factor in what the state can pass legislatively too.

      • Michael Thackston

        I dont even understand the bill. Will pre 2011 be able to stop registering?

      • Bill of CA

        @Josh

        In light of this pandemic, we can be certain that every politician’s focus is not going to be on this bill or on Registrants for that matter. This could get interesting…who knows where the chips will fall?

      • BM

        @Josh,

        Couldn’t agree more, though it is disturbing that it was even introduced. I think that is what’s getting everyone. It literally could be introduced and die in committee without going any further.

        And in my opinion in regards to Judge Cleland – spot on. He has to be more annoyed and fed up with the state than with our side at this point. Let’s also not forget that he is bound by the 6th’s opinion whether he likes it or not. I would have to believe that he is (or will be) fully made aware of this bill and the shenanigans. I’d think it would irk him that they’re playing games. No in action for years, then a BS attempted fix. That leaves the ACLU to push back even harder on the state in negotiating the final judgement I would think. “Not a chance we will agree to any of this nonsense and we want it in writing”.

        I’m definitely optimistic on some of my opinions and assumptions. But I’d have to think the introduction of this poop prior to any final judgement looks bad. Had it been an actual good faith, completely revised, ex post facto addressing, no residence restrictions bill… well maybe it would’ve been better received by the judge and ACLU.

        One last thought on this virus and it’s affects on us… IF this thing keeps getting kicked down the road, I’m good with it. I actually think it helps our situation if it gets kicked FAR ENOUGH and past the election. Everyone agrees that a better bill will come when it is not in an election year. Or maybe so many will be consumed by this pandemic that we just slip in a good bill right under their noses without too much fight from the public and press coverage (since it sounds like people negotiating were onboard with a lot of sweeping and positive changes)

        Just some thoughts.

    • TS

      @All MI PFRs

      Are you talking with MI Legislators who are on the Judiciary Cmte to voice your opinions, ask questions, and find out more about it via phone and email? Now is a good time to do that.

  29. Bobby S.

    Well Everyone, I was bored and asked Tim P. from the ACLU a few questions , though not all questions were answered, he did send this very short answer, paragraph, I will let you interpret it your own way so here it is

    Bobby everything is on hold right now.  As for your 25 years you have to understand that the bill was so poorly written that it is not clear as to many areas and also in some places it says one thing and in others it says something else.

    Well is all he write back, so don’t think the 27th with the Judge and a Judgment is going to happen, any one have any thoughts on this short response.

    • Nick

      Hopefully, with the latest entry from the putz in Ionia it will be the final nail in the coffin. I think it’s very important for us to keep track of who stands in favor of this crap and take care of them come election time.

  30. David

    Thanks for posting that brief ACLU response, Bobby. Those MI lawmakers are a joke.
    How many are educated as lawyers and yet none seems to be familiar with the concept “void for vagueness”?

    • Josh

      @ Michigan….I just checked on the status of HB 5679 and if there was any movement. It only states that the bill was electronically reproduced and expected HJ 30- both actions dated 3/25/20…..not sure what that means or if the judiciary committee even reviewed it today? Anybody got info on this? Just google Michigan 2020 HB 5679 and it’ll take you straight to bill’s page…

  31. Bobby S.

    I just got this through an email concerning Betts

    http://publicdocs.courts.mi.gov/SCT/PUBLIC/ORDERS/148981_64_01.pdf

    Just thought you all would like to know what’s up with the Betts case.

  32. Nick

    Bobby S…don’t know what I’m doing wrong but I can’t get the link to come up. Can you tell me what the latest was on the Betz case?
    Thanks

    • Bobby S.

      @Nick

      March 25, 2020

      148981(63)

      PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN, Plaintiff-Appellee, SC: 148981 v COA: 319642 Muskegon CC: 12-062665-FH PAUL J. BETTS, JR., Defendant-Appellant. ______________________________________/

      On order of the Chief Justice, the motion of defendant-appellant to exceed the page limitation for his reply is GRANTED. The 14-page reply submitted on March 24, 2020, is accepted for filing.

      • Joel

        Did anything happen yet?

        • Bcd

          What u think? Lmao. No joel

        • Josh

          @Michigan…..I just heard from my attorney via PACER that the judge issued a direct order on 3/27 giving both parties until Monday the 30th to submit memorandum of proposed orders. Looks firm at this point…but we’ll see

  33. Bobby S.

    @Josh,

    I know this is going to sound dumb, but can you please elaborate on what the Judge meant about firm orders, and what this memorandum is that the parties have to come up with by Monday.

    I just hope that all this finally means this is coming to an end. Thank you Josh for the update, very much appreciate it.

    • Josh

      @BobbyS…what the judge is requiring is that the order of judgement that was originally due back on March 13th be submitted by Monday March 30th. This is the filing that is supposed to set the clock ticking down on the 60 day time limit for Michigan to draft legislation that complies with Judge Cleland’s ruling. I also read a article yesterday that Michigan’s legislature has not been affected as of yet by COVID 19. My lawyer’s opinion seems to confirm this 17 day delay was caused by something else like negotiating the language in the order and the letter from the state police notifying us of our new responsibility. What I meant by “firm” is that I believe there won’t be anymore delays or extensions and we can hopefully start counting down to better times ahead. I’ve also asked my attorney to review HB 5679 and will pass along any opinions or insight that the attorney has…

  34. Nick

    @Josh. Yes..thank you very much for the update. If possible could you please elaborate?

  35. BM

    Everyone this is exactly what the order states:

    On March 26, 2020, the court held a telephonic status conference to discuss how this case should proceed with the entry of judgment and distribution of notices in light of the practical limitations created by the current COVID-19 pandemic and a declaration of a state of emergency at both the national and state levels. The parties were in agreement that the initial deadlines outlined in the court’s February 14, 2020 opinion and order are no longer feasible based on the currently strained administrative resources of law enforcement, significantly hobbled in responding to the pandemic.
    Under the existing circumstances, the parties agree that the court should defer entry of final judgment in this case and also agree that additional direction from the court is needed. However, the parties disagree as to the precise substance of that direction.
    Following a series of telephone organizational conferences with the court, each side has drafted and exchanged with opposing counsel a proposed interim order addressing how this case should proceed during the present state of emergency. As
    discussed during the telephone conference of March 26, 2020, the court will direct the parties to present their proposed orders as exhibits to concise memoranda (one memorandum per side) in which the parties explain the basis for their position and offer a critique of the proposed order of the opposing side. The attached proposed orders should be clearly labeled as proposed orders. The court will review and carefully consider these competing memoranda and will ultimately enter its own order providing further guidance in this case. Accordingly
    IT IS ORDERED that each side FILE a memorandum on the docket, with a proposed order as an attachment, no later than the close of business on March 30, 2020.

    • Josh

      @BM & Michigan…. Damn! I was WAY wrong about the final order of judgement being entered. Apologies for not doing enough digging! Anybody else shaking their heads about the irony of the timing of all this? Hopefully, the ACLU has banked up enough good will with the judge after 4 years of being patient & hospitable with the state…..Thoughts? Predictions?

  36. CondusedMan

    How much good will did OJs lawyers have? It’s been bloody YEARS, justice is an absolute joke in this country. I can’t believe these people get paychecks while so many Michiganders are on furlough or just completely lost their jobs. Utterly useless American government. Whitmer put more people out of work than anyone else in Michigan history—and made more people lose their health insurance to boot! The ACLU cares about boys playing girls sports, they don’t care about actual civil rights (like shutting churches down with a stroke of a pen!).

  37. TnT

    Michigan full of S%$t !!! I knew it would be something too prevent them from Fixing this Unconstitutional B.S law this is been going on for over 25 years kicking the can , I have never seen more B.S in my life .
    Michigan You Suck !

    • David

      @ TnT: PLEASE!!! Use your anger to do something productive!! Take action!!!
      Write to your MI legislators!
      Go to their office!!
      Call them!
      FAX them!
      Make it clear to the lawmakers that the Registry is unConstitutional and Unacceptable!!
      Stop bitching and start taking ACTION!!!

  38. Warpath

    I will be patient. It does my heart good to know that all that are working on this as well as everyone else is cooped up in there homes for the interim.

  39. James Kapp

    Is there any change on the lifetime requirement for the pre-2006 registration

    • David

      @ Warpath: DON’T BE PATIENT!! DO TAKE ACTION!! Write, call, FAX, email your MI lawmakers!! Make your voices heard!!

  40. Blake

    So I have pacer and looked at both responses. Be prepared to see how messed up Michigan is.

    Aclu.

    They want relief for us during the pandemic so we dont get charged for violating the unconstitutional registry. They had over a 30 page response.

    Michigan
    They want us to have no relief during this period. Plus that bill that’s before the judiciary committee is the bill the state of Michigan is wanting to use.

    They had only 6 pages and all of it was making excuses.

    They also had a very nasty comment.

    They basically said with the wording

    Letting sex offenders do whatever they want want during the pandemic is going against public safety. yes they literally call everyone on the list a sex offender and said all 44k are a threat to public safety.

    Just letting everyone know. Once I know the judges judge’s decision I’ll let everyone know

    • TSA

      This is a bunch of BS. I got invited to a webinar by Tim to “stop this bad legislation”. I asked him what was going on and he said they will say on the webinar. How long is this going to go on? Judges orders no longer matter and they just keep getting away with it.

      • Josh

        @TSA….nobody got away with anything..Ignore, ignore, ignore, delay make excuses, delay, delay, excuses, and ignore some more…This has been the state’s strategy from the start…and this proposal today is NO different..Nobody in the legislature has the testicular fortitude(balls) to take a stand for what’s right. That isn’t a new development folks! I AM somewhat surprised that ACLU is taking that house bill so seriously…

    • Josh

      @Blake…the guy who primarily authored the state’s memo was the same DOUCHE BAG who represented the state in court. He’s already been spanked once. I think this isn’t particularly a bad thing for us minus the continued delay for the pandemic. This is political posturing and looking good for Mr. & Mrs John Q taxpayer/ hysterical soccer mom. This was always going to be the judge’s decision! The state’s stance won’t play well in contrast to the ACLU’s thoroughly well thought out and legally reasoned response. As to HB 5679, my lawyer said that it’s a convoluted mess and is still in the judiciary committee. The opinion was the state brought it up just to say “Hey look at what we’re doing!” Other then the delays, which really suck….I don’t see much to be concerned about here…

      • BM

        Josh.. I have to agree with you here. The law introduced is more convoluted than the current one! Not to mention that it essentially provides for 2 separate registries. Imagine the confusion with law enforcement, which already has a hard time understanding what it’s supposed to enforce. Now add hysteria to the mix when a pre 2011 registrant is in a school zone, call police and waste their time for no one breaking the law. What I don’t like is how they’re going AROUND the tier system by adding the offense statue language to the online system.

        I thought the stakeholders really didn’t want 2 systems, to do any risk assessments and so that was the reason behind shortening the registration periods. Sounds to be like a lot of backpedaling or just a 1/2 a** attempt at pleasing the judge. Not quite sure but I don’t like the direction regardless.

        I’ve signed up for the meeting Friday to hear what they have to say firsthand.

    • Charlie

      Hey Blake, wondering where the 6 page response can be found. And the 30 are from the Judge your referring to correct!? It sounds like they are digging a bigger hole for themselves

      • BM

        Charlie,

        I think the state, with its response and reasoning… not to mention the MSP and others already denying registration, is in fact digging a bigger hole. They sound dumb at this point. I would have to think the judge is fed up with their nonsense.

      • Blake

        No the 30 page response is from the aclu. And both responses are on pacer. The state literally had no good response to anything and literally threw all 44k of us and our families under the covid party bus.

        • BM

          Blake

          30 pages? ACLU is 10 pages and state is only 3 (briefs). Proposed orders are 8 pages ACLU and 4 for state.

        • Josh

          @Blake….Completely agree! There is no NEW argument from the state….just the same recycled bull$h!t presented under the guise of the latest convenient excuse…a pandemic. The ACLU has 30 pages of sourced & researched LEGAL material to present to Judge Cleland to make their case….Anybody really think the state helped themself with this? That’s why I think this nothing but posturing

    • ConfusesMan

      Thanks for the information, Blake. And thanks for passing on your lawyer’s analysis, Josh. I appreciate the information you’re both providing.

      It’s hard not to take things like this personally, but it’s important for me to remember that no one in power is actually personally worried about us—we’re a political football and people with political ambitions need to be seen as consistently demonstrating deep concern about us. In my (admittedly limited) experience judges often give their harshest words before they make their most generous decisions. Everyone just wants to go on record looking as intolerant of us as possible. That’s what motivated this House Bill, which, I think we are all hoping, is unlikely to be accepted by Judge Cleland. I don’t think any politician will suffer if the bill is rejected and registrants are relieved from registration—they will only suffer, politically, if they ever appeared to be anything but utterly intolerant of any relief to individuals who were ever designated “sex offender.” I do hope that we are all relieved from registration duties, and Michigan politicians stop trying to curry political favor by trying to bring us back into the fold.

      But in the end, I’m thankful I’m with my family, that I’ve never been sentenced to prison, that the people I love are safe, and as long as Americans are treated cruelly by the state because of misguided ideas about risk and sex I’ll try to see bearing the designation of registration as a burden we all share. Covid has shown me how little we value freedom in America, and how far we have to go.

  41. TnT

    @Blake … Doesn’t surprise me one bit… These Politicians are Dirty Mofoers , Lets just hope the judge sees threw the smoke and does what is right & ( Constitutional ) ( SOONER THEN LATER ) I wouldn’t have expected nothing less out of this states politicians we are the problem NOT the fact they are KILLING God knows how many of their own people as they fight to keep a unconstitutional registry ALIVE but killing the citizens by failing our country at EVERY level . Sad but True ! That’s why I DONNT give a F*%k it they get what they deserve they can run but cant hide from the Virus THEY SPREAD , Can only hope they feel the pain of being locked in the house, not being able to be social not being able to be normal , Finally they will feel our pain we live with for the last 25 years. Michigan Politicians You Suck ! 🙂

  42. BM

    EVERYONE PLEASE READ AND REGISTER!

    Just received this email from Tim at ACLU:

    This is very bad legislation and we need your help to stop it. Tim

    You are invited to a Zoom webinar.
    When: Apr 3, 2020 12:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
    Topic: SORA Legal and Legislative Update and Call to Action

    Register in advance for this webinar:
    https://zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_cvyc9sFVSnev4wTR1ViB8A

    After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the webinar.

    Just a note that pre-registration is requiring a name & email address

    Respectfully Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist

    • Bcd

      Bm. Dont mean to be pessimistic but think about this. The 6th circuit federal court of appeals ruled the registry was unconstitutional 4 yrs ago. Us supreme court refuses to hear the states appeal effectively upholding 6th circuit’s ruling. Now judge cleland a federal district court judge basically adopts the 6ths ruling. My question is if all the courts have stated that this law is unconstitutional and 4 years later it’s still the same old b.s what do you think we can do as a bunch of convicted sex offenders. Lol. If they care less about what the courts say what are we going to say?

      • Sheldon

        All we are is just a stepping stone for the government to take away more people’s rights.

        • Ghost

          Yep! What people will give up so there “governing authority” can make them safe. They sit back in there nice warm homes telling themselves how great they are “We have caught them all up in a net”. Then to wake up one morning and find that net coming for them.

  43. BB

    In Michigan. If you were convicted before 2011, do you still have to register?

    • Harold

      Hi, I had to go register in March and I was told I did not have to register anymore because my offense occurred before 2011. I have not received the letter from MSP yet.

      • Carey

        Does this 2011 date apply to people who were not charged and convicted in Michigan? I pleaded to the Feds in the Southern District of New York in 2008, and was released on October 13th of 2010.

  44. Nick

    So now we have the 60 day waiting period? Any idea what to expect or hope for next?

  45. Ramps

    I just called MSP in Mt Pleasant and asked about reporting, if my case was before 2011. The Officer sound pretty knowledgeable and it. He told me, I dont have to report anymore if my case was before 2011. WOW!

    • Josh

      @Ramps….if you register at a MSP post then you got turned away. If you had to register at your local cop shop then you had to register and pay the $50….I have a PRE-registry conviction and went to do my verification on March 30 with the memo in hand to show that I shouldn’t have to be there….the lady officer looked at me like I was stupid and told me that I did indeed have to verify.

      • BM

        Josh –

        Offense date of 91.. I have to register at Oakland Co. Records office. After the MSP turning away and Covid, I did hear that my location was turning people away anyway with the state of emergency and not letting anyone in the door. I didn’t even make an attempt. 1. I’m not risking my life. 2. If MSP isn’t, then there are serious equal protection questions. They aren’t “following current law” technically as it stands.

  46. Ron

    Does anyone know when they will let us know of the new requirements of registering?

    • Tim in WI

      Ron,
      Ultimately it must come from your legislature and be signed by the governor because that’s how law is made and enforced! I’m in Wisconsin and you can bet I’m paying close attention. My father resides in the UP.
      The biggest problem faced by the normal process of ” striking” the current law is the federal surveillance saints left the state’s nowhere to go. Most folks interested in the issue, advocates on both sides, and the general consensus is the unpopularity\ fear of sexual offender, but that cannot be the real roadblock issue.
      The proof in that rests in the inaction and blatant disregard for the original decisions some years back. The heart of it squarely rests in the issue encompassed as GOV DATABASE USE!

      The plain enslavement: man to machine is inherently inverse to the very definition of REPUBLIC. Efficacy carries the cause – if efficacy in regime never flowers then original intent survives not. But what else afoot? Purely the machines uses otherwise n ” civil” context. Here is an article describing other civil uses of the machine.

      https://news.yahoo.com/ig-horowitz-found-apparent-errors-151329974.html

  47. Bobby S.

    @all Michigan

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I understood, and the parts I am concerned with along with many others in the same boat as I am is this, all pre 2011 registrants will eventually be removed ,unless your conviction was after 2006 but before 2011, you will still have to follow 2006 amendments, but NOT 2011 amendments. Those of us that are pre-2006 and 2011 will come off , and those of us that are even pre-registry, meaning before the registry even existed, will definitely be removed, as soon as the injunction is put into place or a new law is written, either way we have to try and be patient, and we will eventually come of the registry sound about right, again correct me if I misunderstood anything, Thanks in advance.

    • BM

      Bobby – do you know if they recorded this? I couldn’t make it unfortunately. Interested to hear what was said.

      • Bobby S.

        @BM, They did but I’m not sure when it will be posted. Keep checking the ACLU website .

    • BM

      Bobby-

      What’d they say more specifically??

    • FEDUP

      Where are you getting this information from? I would love to follow it myself? Are you saying all pre 2011 people on the registry will eventually be removed? How do 2006-2011 people continue to follow SORA when the unconstitutional vague ruling was made? Would a person who was put on the registry in 2008 eventually be removed?

    • Slow

      Hi, I’m in Michigan. My local sherrifs department was closed during business hours for registrants so I called MSP to update my quarterly. They asked me if my offense was before 2011 and I confirmed it was. They told me they weren’t registering pre 2011’s and to wait for a letter and If I dont get a letter before my next quarterly to come in and update then. But an acquaintance is also pre 2011 and he was able to register with MSP but wasn’t required to pay his annual $50 fee! So there is ripples in the water in the great lake state!! Of course change isn’t easy or consistent. The biggest consistancy in Michigan just like the weather, legislature and constitution is inconsistency. With a recipe book like our laws here we never know what is going to come out of the oven…or if it will be servablle let alone edible!!??
      I know it’s hard for us to be patient. Like a person serving time just on weekends counts every hour until they can leave!! Time somehow goes slower….Change is coming! I know I can take my kid to school and attend conferences etc. Now!!
      We know the cake is baking….killing us to know what kind of frosting….and what will be written on it….who’s name is gonna be on it!!!!!?????

  48. Tom

    According to the zoom conference today, this will be delayed for 6 months or more due to the virus. We all know the pandemic isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. I would’ve thought the legislature would work remote from home on these issues. This will all probably get resolved in early 2021.

    • Lmao

      Lmao. What an absolute joke. Legislators, judges, lawyers all getting paid during that time too, I’m sure. Why is American government so utterly incompetent and corrupt? Do we still register? People have already been turned away for March, do they have to go back in April?

      Thanks for being so accommodating to the State, ACLU! Hope you got some brownie points for when you sue Chick Fil A or Hobby Lobby or some grandma who misgendered a pansexual they/them. Funny how conservatives in the UK are asking genuine questions about the legality of Covid lockdowns and the ACLU maintains radio silence about our right to freedom of assembly is stripped because a handful of seniors with preexisting conditions got the flu.

      • #FEDUP

        This has become absolutely ridiculous! ACLU YOU NEED TO SAY SOMETHING TO THE PEOPLE YOU ARE ALLEGEDLY FIGHTING FOR!! The amount of anxiety this has caused for me and I am sure many others is punitive by itself! How dare the ACLU ask others to not bring their own lawsuits. UPDATE the people you are saying you have been fighting for for years! Stop with the false hope BS!

        • Josh

          @FEDUP…..You CAN file a lawsuit. You CAN proceed on your own….however until this class action is resolved or the order of judgement is entered you will be wasting your time. If you file in the western district of Michigan the case will be transferred if not dismissed with prejudice to the eastern district and rolled into the class action where Cleland will summarily dismiss it. Obviously, filing it in the eastern district puts into Cleland’s arena with the same result. To the best of my knowledge only one 83 made it through because of a different argument but that was also resolved by the Cleland ruling. The only way to file and have success was before the class action was certified back in the fall of 2018….I’ve been waiting for the disposition (if that’s the right word?) of this case and waiting to see what the end result will be. If it’s unsatisfactory my attorney is on standby and we will file the first day we can…

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