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National

MI: Federal judge to hear latest arguments in case of sex offender registry ruled unconstitutional

UPDATE 2/5: Hearing today to decide whether to remove thousands from Michigan sex offender registry

Also see:

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/02/constitutional-fight-for-michigan-sex-offender-rights-now-before-federal-judge.html

[michiganradio.org – 2/3/20]

Lawyers will make their case in front of a federal judge on Wednesday over what to do about the state’s sex offender registry.

The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled nearly four years ago that many of the requirements of Michigan’s registry are unconstitutional. But the law hasn’t been changed, and people continue to be on the list.

“The court has said that this registry is so ineffective, that it is also unconstitutional,” says Miriam Aukerman, senior staff attorney with the ACLU of Michigan. “And yet the Legislature has done nothing to fix it.”

In its August 2016 opinion, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals described Michigan’s Sex Offenders Registration Act (SORA) as “a byzantine code governing in minute detail the lives of the state’s sex offenders.”

“SORA brands registrants as moral lepers solely on the basis of a prior conviction,” the court wrote in its opinion. “It consigns them to years, if not a lifetime, of existence on the margins, not only of society, but often, as the record in this case makes painfully evident, from their own families, with whom, due to school zone restrictions, they may not even live.”

Read the full article

 

Join the discussion

  1. Agamemnon

    Is this the same case MI AG Nessel filed documents for stating the registry was unconstitutional?

    • R33

      @agamemnon yes I do believe it is the lawyers have made a brife last week the the state has not moved much and it has been a few years when told to change the law

  2. Harry

    If, the “so-called” lawmakers have done nothing in 4 years means they are not going do anything. Just rule the whole law unconstitutional and kick the ball up to the SCOTUS, because the RSO are un-american and is unconstitutional, period. There’s no fixing just get rid of it.

  3. R33

    Let’s hope it goes good for us on Wednesday. I got my fingers crossed. I know they probably wont have anything big but we can hope

  4. TS

    Hold off because of a pending case?! That’s wrong…

  5. Matthew

    this could be the beginning of the end.

  6. G4Change

    It is TRO time. This has been dragged on for long enough!!!

  7. Biol57

    The state is not complying. This is contempt pure-and-simple IMO. What remedy does the judge have? Can he impose a several million dollar a day penalty against the state to force compliance? Can he make the fines retroactive (as MI did when they applied retroactively the changes to the registrants?) Can the judge hold the people at the top of the decision food chain in contempt of the ruling by the 6th Circuit? Can the judge order the people who have failed to comply to be jailed for contempt?

    It seems to me that a combination of huge fines and threats of time in jail will get things moving.

    • Dennis

      NY Wont let go,

      If you had been sentenced under Michigan’s HYTA, do you believe New York would’ve still made you register, since their version in New York does not require youthful offenders to register?

  8. Autonomous

    If not described as plain indenture to property, slavery repackaged the complaint insufficient!
    Free men are paid wages to maintain machines.

  9. Gralphr

    The link was interesting, especially the comments. Theres people who wrote people on the registry are worse than actual murderers of all things…………

  10. MidnightMike

    Almost to PH to see if I can get in to see the arguments take place. I’ll keep y’all posted.

    • BM

      @MidnightMike

      Please keep us posted! Wanted to make it myself but wasn’t able. Appreciate it!

  11. MidnightMike

    The hearing is over and I’m on my way home,,,, The first thing I want to say is,,, you all are not very good at showing up or being supportive of this cause. We all need to do better. Only around 25 people showed up and I’d guess that there were less then a handful of Registered citizens present. WE NEED TO DO BETTER
    That said the hearing went as expected,,, more of the same arguments. I’d say the biggest news is that the state agreed in regard to count 1-3. I’d expect the judge to absolutely side with us in that respect. The last two counts in the issues of certification and the issue of severing certain parts,,,, in my opinion the state did a very poor job. The lawyer for the state even suggesting at one point the judge could simply take a red pen and strike all the portions of SORA that did not mirror SORNA,,, which the courts have held is constitutional. The judge sort of giggled in his reply and made the comment “That sounds a whole lot like rewriting the law to me”. TBH,,, on the issue of ex post facto,,,, I still think it’s entirely up in the air what the judge might do,,,, however I think he is inclined to great the ex post facto classes relief,,,, at least in some form. I did not get the feeling at all that he would send anything to the Michigan courts to decide as the state requested.
    My overall take away,,,, 1-3. Probably will see relief and a decision in our favor on those counts quickly,,,, ex post facto, sever ability,,,, god only knows,,,, I still have to go with that the judge already said,,,, “enforcement must cease” and I believe he was not in favor of the states arguments on count 4-5. God bless you all and next time,,,, I hope to see.more then the 20-25 people that were there,,,;, less then half of them even being effected by the law,,,, our turnout was shameful!!! I’ll watch here for the judges decision and he also stated that he will be rendering his decision in writing as quickly as he can,,, and I got the feeling he meant sooner rather then later.

    • Josh

      @MM….Thanks for attending and reporting back! Are those 1-5 arguments the ones from the plaintiff brief last week? Also, was there any mention of the Nessel briefs as part of our arguments?

    • Hopeful In MI

      Thank you for the update MM! To be honest I never thought that attendance would have any impact.

  12. Bobby S.

    @MidnightMike,

    Thank you, for the update, as I have said before I am more concerned and worried about expos facto, and the 2011 amendment being severed is the word I am looking for I guess. Like I have said many times before and like many other’s iwas convicted before the registry before it even existed but still put on it for life.

    This June will 28 years, unless it’s finally over by then, so I am hoping when Judge Cleland renders, his decision in writing it will include removing ALL pre-sorna 2006 and 2011 registrants. So unless I am reading what you have reported wrong, some of us should be removed from the registry, correct?

    Thank you again for the update very much appreciated.

  13. Joe

    Could anyone tell me what counts 1 through 5 are as @Midnight Mike referred to? Thanks in advance.

    • BM

      Counts 1-3 are:
      1.Vagueness
      2. Strict Liability
      3. 1st Amendment

      Count 4 is Expo Facto

      Count 5??

      • CM

        I’m thinking these are it:
        (1) Does the law inflict what has been regarded in our history and traditions as
        punishment?
        (2) Does it impose an affirmative disability or restraint?
        (3) Does it promote the traditional aims of punishment?
        (4) Does it have a rational connection to a non-punitive purpose?
        (5) Is it excessive with respect to this purpose?

        • BM

          @CR

          These have all been answered by the 6th, which is binding. The counts per Does motions 62 / 75 on Pacer lay out the 4 (not 5) counts

      • Josh

        There is a Mlive.com article detailing what happened today…

  14. TnT

    Anyone have any idea how long it will take to get a response back from this judge on these matters ?

    • BigAnt

      @TNT if we go based on past Practices with Judge Cleland, we will get a response before the end of business Friday. He is usually very quick with his responses.

      • David

        In contrast to media expectations, I hope the Honorable Judge does NOT give the legislature additional time to correct the Registry’s problems. Lawmakers have had plenty of time already and have done absolutely nothing. It’s time for the courts to whack them upside the head with a 2×4!!

      • MidnightMike

        The first guess was correct. From the brief/motion prior to this hearing. 4 was certification. 5 is sever ability. They did mention the brief from AG Nestle. The brief was for the Betts case. Had nothing to do with this motion or the outcome. Idk how it’s been misconstrued but hopefully this sets the record straight,,,, AG Nestle’s brief=Betts only!!!!! . I was there. I even shook Mrs. Akerman’s hand and thanked her at the end. I left as tv crews from at least four stations were interviewing her as well as a couple registered citizens. Should be something on the news. Idk. I had to go in at 4 and work till midnight to make up for taking the day off. The judge implied his decision would come swiftly. Hope that helps. Also,,,, even if we do get off. I guarantee you guys 100%. They will make a new law and put us right back on the registry. Likely a mirror of sorna seemed to be exactly what the state wants,,,, “it’s been ruled constitutional” and I’m am positive they will go with it and ex post facto people can forget being off the registry. (Stinks cause I’m in that same situation). however I do expect some relief. School zones,,,,, In person Reporting, internet identifiers, phone numbers, vehicles,,, and strict liability I expect to go away soon. Web sight,,,, haha haha. We are not getting off,,, and if we do I can assure you,,, it will be temporary. Only until the legislature fixes the punishment parts. if your tier 3. LIFe on the registry is what I would expect. My best guess is a ruling for injunction but like effective in six months,,,, if the punitive parts aren’t hammered out. It and only if,,, and you can bet they will be,,, unfortunately,,, death is likely the only way off.

        • Bobby S.

          @midnightMike

          Thanks for the further update, but for those of us that are pre-sorna 2006 and 2011, I don’t see how they can stick us back on it after being removed, especially if our convictions were before the registry ever existed, and I was originally only suppose to do 25 years, and it will be 28 years on the damn thing in June. Anyone else have any theories on this one. Thanks again MidnightMike.

        • Robert

          While I understand your frustration, that won’t be the case.

          1). They brought the Betts case up for a reason today, which is why Judge Cleland said there is too many conflicts with in the AG office., but I’m sure he will give more weight to Dana Nessel, than to her assistant. She said clearly its NOT severable. If you were to agree to go back to the old sora, the ones who got off the registry in 2011 as a result of the amendments would be put back on. There would be lawsuits GALORE. That’s why it has to be rewritten. You do realize it took only 2 months to rewrite Sora in 2011 dont you?

          2). For those pre-2006 and pre-2011, it will NOT be life. That was found unconstitutional. It will go back to 25 years and some will come off immediately.

          3). The legislators are agreeing to take some folks off, and I’m quite sure they will including even those who were convicted BEFORE there was a registry. Like the old man on the news after the motion on Channel 4. His son does not have a conviction because he was assigned HYTA, but he still has to register. Legislators already agree that those and juveniles should not be on the registry when the changes come, and this is what came directly from the judiciary committee.

          4,). The state has lost. The news could see that, several others who I know were in attendance could see that. Not sure where u were. Nor will it likely take 6 more months. That is again your speculation.

          5). While it’s ok to vent, throwing down the towel and sewing nothing but negativity helps nothing.

          6). If you really think they would still make everyone register for life to comply with Sorna, I suggest you take a look at what’s going on in Pennsylvania with this same issue. It ain’t happening. State constitution usually trumps federal, and that’s exactly why Pennsylvania supreme court keeps striking down the legislative changes…..Because they are still unconstitutional.

        • AJ

          @Robert:
          “… State constitution usually trumps federal…”
          —–
          This is patently false. The federal Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Nothing trumps it. Period. Don’t confuse the ability of a state constitution granting greater rights than the federal one as any manner of trumping.

        • Bo

          Yup. “Supremacy clause”

  15. G4Change

    “Now, the judge could issue a temporary restraining order or permanent injunction on enforcement on these provisions of the registry.”

    And he damn well should! This has dragged on long enough!

    “Or he could issue another hold on the case to give the Legislature time to act.”

    BULLSHIT! They haven’t acted in 4 f***ing years! It’s injunction time NOW!!!

  16. The Vampire

    @MIDNIGHTMIKE. Did you let the other sex offenders who was in the court room with you.Know but this site? Pass the info on bro! But i don’t see the reg living much longer! It a Nazis thing! And we don’t like nazis stuff here. You do your time and pay for the crime!!Let it go!!!! And move on.

  17. R33

    It would still be due process I do believe. So if they change it it should go back to what you were sentenced to to begin, subtract all the other things the judge said need to be changed. cuz I think a new ruling would be like trying to repeat what is going on now within the court. And they would have to do it over again. So we will see

    • MidnightMike

      It’s still perfectly legal for them to require us to register for life, they just have to be sure the registration isn’t punishment. Sorna as it’s written is not punishment. Courts have ruled and Michigan is gonna want that Fed money. I agree we won’t be on the current registry,,,, but I’d be willing to bet money,,,, no one is getting off free and clear. If we do,,,, I’m sure it will only be temp until they decide how to require retroactive registration,,, that can pass constitutional muster,,,,, That was mentioned and I’m sure a new law is in the works. Even miss Aukerman said in court they would be ok with it if it was constitutional. Anything considered “non punitive” will be accepted and enforced. The old version is no good,,,, for sure violates our constitutional rights,,,, however,,,, even if we are removed under SORA,,,, you can bet there will be something in its place. I think it would be a stretch to think that anyone will be removed removed for the rest of their life. I’d LOVE IT! I just don’t think that’s anyone’s plan,,,, but ours. Unfortunately. I guess we will wait and see.

      • Josh

        @All….I’m really confused. I know registries are recognized as constitutional. That being said, the crux of the argument for the Does I case was the ex post facto aspects of the SORNA implementation that were ultimately ruled to be punitive. As @AJ mentioned earlier the FEDERAL trumps STATE and the 6th CCA ruled ex post facto was in fact punishment. If that is binding and Cleland does the right thing then all the people who had their ex post facto rights violated should be immune from new legislation that would attempt to recapture people for new registry? What @Midnight mike is saying is that Michigan could just re-adopt the whole SORNA statute and put those of us who have served our time back on? Anything, done to us going forward would technically be ex post facto again right?

        • Gralphr

          Yes, it definitely sounds like it to me, but we all know the US government is a “do as I say, not as I do” entity. If the root was ex post facto, then youd think anything new that would deal with the same group would be ex post facto. The US justice system and its laws are a joke. These same crooked tactics are the same that was used during Jim Crow days, to keep black Americans in in place. Its surprising many “human rights” groups prefer to look the other way, concerning these reused forms of discrimination.

  18. MidnightMike

    Ex. Post facto only applies if the law is deemed punitive or punishment. If they lower the bar beneath the “punishment” standard. Even by an inch,,, they can pretty much do whatever they want. And being tough on registered citizens is good for votes,,; and lawmakers live for votes.

    • P31

      @Midnightmike Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 (with respect to federal laws) and Article 1, Section 10 (with respect to state laws)

      I get why people are frustrated, so am I. I’ve been on this crap for over 25 years. I was convicted before the registry was law. But to post a bunch of negative stuff that is wrong, doesn’t help.

  19. brandon

    @midnightmike I completely agree with you. If Michigan enacted the exact replica of S.O.R.N.A. and no further. It will pass constitutional muster, to hold everybody where they stand still..Maybe not life..Maybe a few thousand bucks and a good attorney after 10 years. The A.G. is very correct in her analogy of the effect of the registry to date.. It hinders recovery and holds Thousands of us back. I only prey They do whats right even tho we are all viewed in society, as moral leapers. We Still Deserve A Fair Chance! Life is hard as it is..This is the icing you never want on your cake! I would like to say THANK YOU! to all the council reading this and keep up with this site! This is the voice of the people that are affected.

  20. The Vampire

    Fight fire with fire!!! Tell people you voting for this guy. Than pop the top to people! That you a sex offender and you want this guy voted in too office see how fast those crooks will deny you. But tell people i am on his side. Soon those politicians will start shutting there mouth. Watch the fear when you ask for votes for some some guy too be in office. When you a sex offender. See where i am going with this!

  21. Robert Curtis

    How to beat any charge of failure to register. Well perhaps not always but it makes for a strong arguement. Why are citizens on the sex offender registry and so easily violated when the department of justice will NOT list Mexican nationals with sex crimes? The reason being Mexican nationals can’t be deported if they are so list, so an illegal gets off the list while a citizen doesn’t.

  22. MidnightMike

    @P31 The catch is that ex post facto only applies to “Punishment”. What I was getting at is the one thing that matters most (having your photo/info plastered on a website),,,, the courts have already ruled is purely civil regulation and not punishment. I’m in the same boat as you,,, but realistically,,, it’s quite possible that there could be a new law that would apply retroactively that would include my junk being online for the world to see. I didn’t mean to be negative. I hate it! Just truthful.
    In thinking about it. I sort of wish that someone could bring up to the judge that anyone that ex post facto applies to,,, their conviction is fairly old. Maybe in the end they will let it go just based on that??? Who knows? The legislature rarely does anything that makes total sense.

    • TP

      Just because the courts have ruled the registry as a civil regulation in the past, doesnt mean they will continue to. We all know that SCOTUS decision was flawed. Yes, it establishes a precedent, but precedent can change. Look at other issues from the criminal, civil, etc worlds such as Slavery, Civil Rights in general, rights of those in criminal proceedings, and so on. This too can change and will change. Public opinion and perception must change and that requires more work on our part as registrants to speak up, show up, and so on.

  23. TawasGirl93

    I found it funny when the State’s attorney tried telling the judge that they were trying to keep expenses low. The judge responded with, “That horse has left the barn.”
    Yeah, I’m not sure exactly HOW MANY of us on the list were actually there for the hearing. But I made sure to get a babysitter for my kids, and I made the trip down there.

    • MidnightMike

      You did the group proud @Tawasgirl…. I thought you were awesome. I was the guy with the beard. I totally remember you. Guys,,,, tbh that’s a really really really good point. There were more news people there then there were registered citizens,,, like seriously,,, no joke or exaggerating,,, there were maybe 5 RC’s there. WE ARE ALL GOING TO HAVE TO START ACTING LIKE WE CARE,,,,, if anything positive is ever going to be done. Five people,,,, only 5 out of 44,000. SMH. There is obviously room to do better. Next court hearing,,,, I hope to see more faces and I hope everyone helps donate. It could change someday,,,,, if,, we do our parts. Cause you know that no one else cares about this stuff more then we should. TG93 took her day to drive down,,, off work,,, got a babysitter….. all the way from tawas. Be more like her and we have a chance. Get involved!!!

      • joe

        @ midnight mike . I commend you and the other registrants that went to the hearing in Port Huron. My question is to all on here that might know. Does the ACLU, Oliver Law group, our attorneys want a lot of to be there? I dont recall them asking for our attendance. Maybe they feel we we would be a distraction or impede the procedure. One of the news articles about the hearing said the aclu asked the registrants that were there not to talk to the media. If we were needed or wanted I’m sure they would get the word out and many more of us would have been there, I certainly would have. It would be great if someone could find out if our attorney’s want a large group of us there for the next court date, I’m pretty sure there will be more. Again I applaud you ,Tawas Girl and the other registrants who were there, I do think its important that at least some of us were. I’m just not sure how many of us should be there. If anyone knows, please let the rest of us know too. Thank you, ACLU, Oliver law group u of m law clinic and everyone that participates for our cause on yhis site.

      • Scooter

        Not all 44000 SOR know about the court hearings or the ruling i think letters should of been sent out to these people to notify them whats going on with these court procedures and you might have a bigger turn out i found out about it just looking at mi news i had know idea what was going on and its about time these Nazi legislators get put in there place i find it funny that some parts of the registry are not punishment when infact it does when it puts your family endanger from those that want to retaliate against your love ones for you being on it is BS it doesnt work its broken. I myself sorry to put this out there was wrongly convicted on a heiness BS Charge because some sick demented woman that is my age cried some bs waited to 2 years to press charges i got hit with attempt suppose to regiter for a few years and be done and they changed it i got life on the registry mi is one of those state quick to convict and not seek the truth its all about money not justice or fairness they can rot in hell Ill get my justice in the after life when god punishes them for what they did to me hope he has a registry for them good luck hope you all get your justice but i have no faith the state ripped that from me over 20 years ago

  24. cool CA RC

    why can’t the judge said “I’ve had enough Megan’s law is now shut down. Every one is OFF The list because the state didn’t do anything for 4 years”

  25. Annonmous

    Any news from anywhere or rumblings anyone has heard? I realize this is going to take time as sadly no judge or politician wants to be the person responsible for pulling the switch on this, but it seems clealand and nessel seem to be our best shot at getting anything done at all. I’m curious to see how it will affect those of us who are on the non published list with a “minor” designation due to age at the time of prosecution and plea. I’ve been on half my life this year, I’m 34 so hoping some form of relief comes for all as I too have delt with the public ridicule, sideways glances and even been told should be put down like a dog and spat at by people who or strangers and just see the balloon designation as an offender with no clue what it means. Here is hoping something comes of all this given the amount of time and opportunity given to the state to take action.

  26. TnT

    When they apply these unconstitutional laws to thousands retroactively years after a crime is a abuse of power at the highest level , this judge should do what is right, He should destroy this registry and force them to rewrite their money trap and give back the LIVES of citizens who in many cases have served their time for their crime , what is crazy is this has gone on this long, when the court knows its WRONG ! Lets hope the judge slams them hard , He should also state in black & white in his order that what they have done, they are NOT getting away with it… AWARD all they people they added punishment after the fact with out a judge or jury … CASH . This is B.S and everyone knows it including the state of Michigan. They are allowing the State to be Judge Jury and Executioner .
    ” SO UNCONSTITUTIONAL ! “

  27. Bobby S.

    Hello Everyone,

    Well, I received another email from Tim from the ACLU today, and I am not sure what is going on between them and the State, but it all sounds like crap and runaround to me. Maybe I am missing something when it comes to all this legal crap, but for those of us that were placed on it retroactively and those of us that are pre-sorna 2006 and 2011, and/or who were convicted before a registry even existed and placed on it anyway should be removed from it automatically, but according to Tim’s statement that is not the case. So the people that are smarter and understand this stuff much better then me, could you please explain to me how the state claims they can keep us on it for life, even though they clearly clost and it was found to be punishment and unconstitutional. very confused and frustrated. Anyway here is his email to me.

    HIM: Bottom line is that if you are a Tier 3 the states position is that you will stay on the registry for the rest of your life. If we do not give the state more time to work with us that could end up being what happens to you and all Tier 3’s and no change for anyone else as to the number of years. You want us to take a hard position then understand that you could be cutting your own possibility of getting off at 25 years. You must not have gotten my last email because you are saying the same thing that you will automatically be removed. How can I be more clear, NO you will NOT unless we can work this out with the State.  The Judge will take as long as he see’s fit to answer our arguments and we should not push him or he could just rule  against us.  He also is more likely to rule in our favor when he see’s we are trying to work with the State.  

    Respectfully Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist 

    • Sheldon

      @bobby Sounds like your just pissing him off. I would just like to thank Tim and the aclu for fighting for us. I would just give them time bobby.

    • Don’t tread on me

      It sounds like status quo to me. Essentially he is saying wait and see. If we push the judge then he will probably rule against us. If we are patient then we may get all we want or at least most of what we want. I say take a deep breath. Every day seems an eternity to us on the registry. We don’t know what it will look like yet. Tim is telling you to be patient. I know it’s tough but we MUST navigate this legal mine field cautiously.

      • Josh

        @BobbyS…..I think you need to take a step back and let whatever happen take its course. We’re in a far better place collectively then we’ve ever been. By all reports, the judge is not inclined to look favorably on the state’s position. In my opinion, I believe his mind is already made up and is taking his time writing a solid legal opinion. This judge has a lifetime legal appointment so he’s not vulnerable to the pressures of a election. You also have Nessel’s position being used to undercut her own employee’s argument…lastly, the governor & AG are Democrats and more open to criminal justice reform. All these things matter! My unsolicited advice for you Bobby is to just relax if you can and wait patiently. Leave Tim alone if you can. He’s being cautious and realistic in his assessment. If things still don’t go our way I will be seeking legal relief independently if & when the restriction of the class action is resolved…

  28. JD

    Will this case effect people after 2011 and 2006 that were put on the list?

  29. Zig

    I’m sure we can’t write Judge Cleland, but can we write anyone? Will it help anything?

  30. MidnightMike

    I’m 1000% sure from the last hearing that NO ONE in the gov wants to let a single person off the registry. Even the ACLU would be happy if no one got off,,, as long as the law was made to pass constitutional muster,,,, our ACLU attorney stated so in court..while explaining that she wished the lawmakers had taken action..
    The problem is that the legislature has stepped right in it by not taking action,,,, judge Cleland is running out of excuses not to order the injunction and stop the punishment,,,, it’s something that’s supposed to happen quickly when your punishing people your not allowed to. His job is only to interpret the law,,, and enforce it…he’s the court. He would absolutely prefer not to publish an opinion. It would work out way way better for everyone if the state and the ACLU as well as the judge can make an agreement out of court that would sort of make everyone happy.
    However,,,, we are obviously running out of time for all that deal making/revising the law stuff. Judge Cleland could send the law back to Michigan to work out,,, and order separation of the “punishment parts” for ex post facto people,,, or he could sever the parts himself,,,, in court he absolutely did not seem like he was inclined to do either…… So now something has to happen. He’s between a rock and a hard place and our lawmakers put him there…In the end,,, I think our lawmakers have made it crystal clear by their actions,,, they are gonna do ZIP, nada, nothing. The judge can’t rewrite the law. He made that very clear in court “that’s not my job”. I think in the end,,, he’s going to probably order the injunction with some sort of delay until it takes effect to give our amazing lawmakers one more chance to fix this problem,,, and if they run out of time again,,,, maybe,, just maybe, someone may come off the registry. Even then;,,, if they adopt SORNA to the letter to keep the fed money theoretically,,,,, We could all well be recaptured and right back in the same boat. However,,, it should be a slightly easier boat to paddle given agreement on both sides with counts 1-3 of the motion.
    It’s my opinion that the lawmakers will continue to do what gets votes which is leave these laws alone,,,, I think the injunction will be ordered and ex post facto will come off,,,,, However I think it will get votes if someone does something to put us all back on and it actually may end up worse,,,, if the classification is justified like in other states with SVP laws,, if your victim was under a certain age or you were convicted of more then one offense,, they require lifetime GPS monitoring that the registrant has to pay for…. or even worse “civil commitment’.
    I surely see it as a fight that will continue for many years to come. I would not expect it to be over for anyone with one judges ruling wether it’s in our favor or not.
    Again I’d like to add that getting involved is the only hope for a positive outcome and TBH,,,, neither side seems particularly interested in getting involved. We need to continue to do better and be more active,,,including myself. Make our side be the strong one by stepping up at every chance you can. Good luck!!!!

  31. BigAnt

    My fellow brothers and sister affected by this registry business:

    No one on here understands the struggle, the prejudice, and Ostracizing that we have gone thru with being on the SOR than us. We have been persecuted, forced to move, and live in fear for decades. We are on the brink of something huge happening, and to us, it can’t come fast enough. I totally agree, as I’m living it with you.

    As passionate as we are with this topic, justifiably so, we need to take a back seat and let the ACLU do their job. I’m not saying that feet are being dragged. We all know that the state is intentionally stalling. But Tim and Miriam also said the same thing to me, if we push too hard on either the judge or the state, we may very well end up in a worse situation than we already are. We instead need to take a proactive approach and when the ACLU has opportunities for us to speak to legislators or at the hearings, be active! Speak up then! Complaining about the unconstitutional treatment, while doing nothing productive to try and have an impact on the changes, is hurting us more than it is helping. Whether it is with our case with Judge Cleland, or the Betts Case in the MSC, change is going to happen. My patience is running thin as well, but we need to stop “poking the sleeping bear” and let the ACLU do their job.

    If I get anymore productive info, I’ll be sure to share!

    • Tired Old Man

      say what you want but for the Attorney say on court records there should be a list and people on it is just chilling!!!

      • Josh

        @Tired Old Man…..I don’t disagree with you that it’s chilling or disappointing to hear a attorney say that registries are ok. We all know that they aren’t! But, registries have been deemed constitutional and are here to stay. Not only that but more & more registries are going to be implemented. Child abuse, animal abuse, DUI, arson, etc…I think that the Aclu lawyer wasn’t trying to sabotage us or anything but changes need to be made for people who may have to remain on the SOR…peoples’ personal information, vehicles, email addresses and whatever else don’t need to be broadcast to the world. I agree, I wish that hadn’t been said in the most vital & important hearing in years but I don’t think that’s what was intended…

        • Sheldon

          @Josh I do agree that there are going to be more registeries for other crimes. A America is truly lost because of the politicians in this country. The constitution these days is being walked on.

        • Tim in WI

          Josh,
          All because of a machine’s potential to be a savior for the “most vulnerable” from the most heinous. Oops, it didn’t help much.

          By securing unfettered (gov &personal) use via the indenture of human to database machine maintenance & use, an advantage of collateralized uses flowered.

          Now children are indeed indentured plus those youngsters who are not yet included are compelled to purchase identity theft protection to secure personal data and futures.

  32. A believer

    Brothers and sisters , it’s going to be alright . No matter what happens , it will work in our favor. I know it’s been a long battle for some of us ( 20 years for me ) but we have survived and pushed through to be the best we can in this unforgiving society. I don’t care what the law is trying to do to us, GOD is in control and we are about to see a miracle. Have faith in God not man , and believe. So a man thinketh , so is he. I BELIEVE!!!!!!

    • joe

      Well if its all the same to you, I would rather not depend on the supernatural to fix this registry problem. If a benevolent supernatural being had anything to do with it, we wouldn’t have a damn registry to begin with. No thanks, I’ll put my Faith in the ACLU, and the talented attorneys on our side to handle this!

    • w

      Belief will help. Patience (beyond infinity) will also help. Politicians and law makers pick when to be quickly slow or slowly quick. It is a given that more short-term harm is done before the greater long-term releif comes.

      Keep yourself together as best you can and get help from friends and family. Earn that “low/no recidivism” badge. Help other registrants. And have a slice of cheesecake once in a while 🙂

      Be grateful. Keep the peace.

  33. Ghost

    I know we are not allowed to say we are victims. But I just lost working as a sub contractor for a company that knew of my case in the very beginning. Before I started to do any work for them they had called my parole officer. My PO gave me a very good endorsement so they accepted me to sub work for them. Through out the years I have been been one of there best techs. But they always found ways to take more and more money from my jots knowing I wouldn’t quit. I am a highly skilled HVAC tech but couldn’t find no work any work. I have never had a single complaint. Even the owner of the company calls me when he needs tech support. But greed plus my situation has made me a easy target for them to take what they want. With my hands being tied I could not do anything. But now they have increased the amount I have to pay a helper for big jobs from $10 to $80. I can longer afford this. So I had stop subbing for them. I have live in a motel for years. I have a van payment and have paid so much to have all the tools for the trade. But now I’m in fear. I have sleepless nights. Chest pains and anxiety. I have to pay for my own insurances for my business and that payment is cumming up. I have been waiting for the day to come where there is no more registry. But it might come to late for me if it comes at all. Even if they do pass something I could still find myself on it. I am consider low risk but I have a tier 3 status so they could still find a way to keep punishing me but that sound like I’m saying I’m a victim again. I could only pray and cry out for mercy that they would take the registry completely away. But life doesn’t work that way. If you want to call this life.The Walking Dead.

    • Harry

      Well, bud, I feel your pain. The registry is punishment that is not place no other class of people and not for the crime involved but for the labeling as sex offender for many instances that do not involve sex, like taking a pee. Now, that being said, we have to become louder until more people start taking notice and they are.

    • R M

      @Ghost: Who the hell said “…we are not allowed to say we are victims.”? Many, many, many of the people who commit sex crimes were victims themselves.

      Not only that, you are a victim of societies asinine ability to even understand basic sex terms, much less understand their kids are more likely to commit a sex crime than be a victim of one. And yes, those sex crimes consists of 30% of the sex crimes committed.

      You are a victim, I am too, so are almost 1 million directly and many times over indirectly.

      Do you have a state HVAC license?

      • Ghost

        R M I had license in GA. years ago before moving up to MI. But MI wouldn’t recognize Ga license. I went to trade school in the mid 80’s. Been doing this my whole life. Did commercial and industrial in Atlanta GA. But now I cant even keep a job doing residential & applliance repair without being taken advantage of. You know I don’t remember how it use to Feel like before all of this anymore. Kind of numb to what life was. It’s hard trying to go out looking for work. I always get called in for a interview, I’ve even been hired on the spot. Until I tell them I have a csc or they run the background check. I hate that feeling. Embarrassment, and shame. It looks like I’ll have to start flipping burgers.

        • R M

          @Ghost: You say you had a HVAC license in Ga, could you still? If so, could/would you move back to Ga?

  34. brandon

    thoughts anyone??

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