ACSOL’s Conference Calls

Conference Call Recordings Online
Dial-in number: 1-712-770-8055, Conference Code: 983459

Monthly Meetings: Nov 21, Dec 19 – Details / Recordings

Emotional Support Group Meetings 2020 (Phone only)

General News

FBI didn’t need a search warrant before hacking child porn suspect, judge rules

The FBI didn’t need to obtain a warrant before investigators hacked the computer of a man suspected of viewing child pornography, a federal judge ruled Thursday. Full Article

Related

Federal Court: The Fourth Amendment Does Not Protect Your Home Computer

Decision

Join the discussion

  1. ab

    A few points:

    – the site in question was accessible through the onion network (TOR) on the deep web

    – Regardless of how someone utilizes TOR, the network itself is built to increase anonymity and part of it includes hiding IP addresses

    – pulling sometimes ip by circumventing the measures used to help keep members anonymous is one thing especially on a network where being anonymous is part of smart browsing

    – Hacking a computer in addition to gain more information is just lazy and unprofessional

    – membership credentials to a site like that and proof of physical location by ip is more than enough to go through the proper steps to find out more

    – expect this ruling to be appealed maybe all the way to the supreme court

    • David H

      I see two issues: 1. The IP address 2. The hacking of the pc to gain evidence. As for the IP, I too agree there is no expectation of privacy. I have a website myself and can see any IP address that comes to my website–what pages were visited and how long the visit was for. This technology is neither high-tech nor new.

      As for the hacking that is where I believe the court’s ruling was flawed. Knowing a person’s IP address who happened to visit a website is unprotected information available on the Internet. The info on a person’s computer is and should remain protected from illegal search and seizure laws!

      I am very suspicious of many of these cases setup to define case law involving RC’s. I dont believe this is real. Its too basic! What i mean by real is that I believe they create cases where outcomes are managed

      • D

        Only issue is that the site in question was not on the “normal” Internet. So it’s not like your website. You had to have a “TOR” browser. This is like an encrypted and anonymous connection. The website does not know your IP and can’t normally get it. The only way the FBI found out who accessed the site was to infect the user’s computer with a virus (most likely using a generic image and an unpatched vulnerability in windows). That virus then “phoned home” to the FBI with the user’s public IP address and the FBI could use that to track him down.

    • Anonymous Nobody

      That is a VERY poorly written story. So much so,that I’m not even sure what went on here or where there even was any hacking. ab’s info is helpful, especially that the Website if accessible through the onion network (TOR) (I’m not going to a how ab knows that).

      All the story says is that the FBI used some special tool to identify the IP address and “other identifiers” of visitors to the Website. Well,that isn’t hacking. In fact, all Websites get the IP address of visitors! The writer of this story does not understand what when on here, so hasn’t explained it. The write seems to think that a Website simply paying attention to the info your computer sends when you go there is hacking and is illegal. Perhaps the writer actually means they logged that info — but still, no difference.

      But from what ab said, perhaps — maybe, we are left guessing — what was happening is that they are hacking through VPNs, as ab suggests, likely TOR, known as the strongest VPN of all, created for the CIA. If so,t hen I gather the argument is basically whether the authorities need a warrant in order to break through a firewall (which is basically what a VPN is, a certain type) in order to identify someone. And the judge, who probably doesn’t understand the technology or what users expect of it, says you have no expectation of privacy even if you use a VPN; unlike whether you have an expectation of privacy in your home if you close the door rather than leave it open.

      This still confuses me. Most VPNs are bundled with a proxy, so all the ISP knows is that you went to the proxy URL, and all the website you go to knows is that they were contacted by a proxy Website. So, this tool the FBI used must somehow hack the proxy to find out who you are. On the other hand, if ab is saying that Website somehow can be accessed only via TOR, well, I don’t know that TOR uses a proxy.

      In light of so poorly written a story, I don’t even know what to make of this.

      I will add as a side note, there was something in the news recently about the government now having ISPs log and report all users any time they use a VPN, and maybe including what Websites they go to. They are moving into territory to make it so if you use a VPN, you are automatically a suspect of a crime. Hey, I use a VPN for accessing my bank account online, for extra security. I don’t care to be a suspect in the eyes of the FBI simply because I do some online banking!

      However, I will say, I have ALWAYS wondered how the authorities seem to know any time someone downloads kiddie porn. Somebody must be spying, and must be spying on everyone on the Internet. Or, they are spying on everyone who goes to known kiddie porn sites – yet the kiddie post is such a horror, so much so that we must crack down on anyone who so much as looks at kiddie porn, yet they leave the Websites up apparently forever and just use them to keep busting people who go there.

      No matter how I look at any of this, the authorities are operating very wrongly, either by widespread illegal spying, or by not stopping kiddie porn, instead keeping it up on the Internet as something they can exploit wildly to create criminal behavior that otherwise never would have happened. That is, they are not trying to stop crime, they are trying to create it to give them an excuse to fill up the prisons. They are exploiting children to accomplish that goal. They a re exploiting children in order stop exploitation of children!

      If its so bad, how can they leave it up?! (Just to clarify, I’m not arguing that there is nothing wrong with kiddie porn, instead that they authorities are completely hypocritical.)

      • Son of Liberty Child of Freedom

        Anonymous Nobody

        In regards to your observations:

        1. “They are exploiting children to accomplish that goal. They are exploiting children in order stop exploitation of children!”

        The reason they are able to justify immoral acts under the color of authority is that Government in not Morally Fixed, Government acts as Moral Relativist’s. It may be described by the common aphorism: “When in Rome, do as the Romans do” or “The ends Justify the means”.

        Moral Relativism is a clear rejection of Objective Morals, The United States of America was founded by the Objective Morals of the Christian Bible founded on the Torah or the 5 books of Moses in the Old testament.

        2. “If its so bad, how can they leave it up?! (Just to clarify, I’m not arguing that there is nothing wrong with kiddie porn, instead that they authorities are completely hypocritical.)”

        I concur they are Fully Hypocritical. let’s examine their belief’s

        https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/color_of_law

        “Color of Law Violations

        U.S. law enforcement officers and other officials like judges, prosecutors, and security guards have been given tremendous power by local, state, and federal government agencies—authority they must have to enforce the law and ensure justice in our country. These powers include the authority to detain and arrest suspects, to search and seize property, to bring criminal charges, to make rulings in court, and to use deadly force in certain situations.

        Preventing abuse of this authority, however, is equally necessary to the health of our nation’s democracy. That’s why it’s a federal crime for anyone acting under “color of law” to willfully deprive or conspire to deprive a person of a right protected by the Constitution or U.S. law. “Color of law” simply means the person is using authority given to him or her by a local, state, or federal government agency.”

        Furthermore, let us note where they believe the source of their Authority is. It certainly is not the U.S. Citizen.

        They bear witness & testify to Heaven and Earth what they Honor & Glory in.

        “authority given to him or her by a local, state, or federal government agency.”

      • Rob

        On the website MotherBoard there was a much more detailed article about this case.

  2. JohnDoeUtah

    This was the clinching argument in Doe v. Shurtleff at. el., Utah contended that there was no reasonable expectation in privacy with information shared with third-party Inter Service Providers (ISP). Since your IP, username, and passwords are sent through the traffic you send via the ISP, you’ve shared it with a third party and it is fair game and not protected by the Fourth Amendment. I was lucky they gave up the password requirement, because technically they could have pushed and gotten them all.

  3. Mike

    The premise that the individual did not have an expectation of privacy is beyond ludicrous. The whole point of a password is privacy. I now suppose that the government can hack bank accounts, email accounts by using the same logic. This is a great example of how many judges are merely prosecutors dressed in a black robe.

    • Son of Liberty Child of Freedom

      Mike

      I concur with your logic

      ” This is a great example of how many judges are merely prosecutors dressed in a black robe.”

      The Justice System has been twisted into a Legal System a perverted Industry.

      In addition:

      The private Internet industry has been commandeered for the purposes of big Government which seeks to grow further to encompass a Global Governmental Reach.

      Much like other aspects in society a growing governmental body because of it’s own self-interest has reached a stage of “Creating a Problem” that it then “Claims” to provide a “Solution To”.

      An example of another private industry that has also been commandeered by Governmental Authority is the Banking Industry which conducts Criminal Investigations on it’s clients who hold simple Checking & Savings accounts on behalf of the government which in turn Claims to provide Solutions to:

      “Intentions, Actions & Commodities” the government criminalized.

      I attach here links for those who wish to further study how the Banking Industry has been spying and conducting criminal investigations on U.S. citizens:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_transaction_report
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_activity_report

      In addition we have a historical example of a completed cycle of how Government acting in Self-interest commandeered a Commodity of a Private Industry with the Cause Being to protect The Public Safety that being the whole alcohol sector.

      The Whole Purpose of the Creation of The U.S. Constitution was to Be a barrier to government from growing into a heavy burden on the Rights & Titles of “The U.S. Citizen” not to be confused with “It’s Citizens” or “The Governments Citizens” It should be clear not to allow any implied Rights & Titles of government which merely is empowered by The U.S. Citizen.

Leave a Reply

We welcome a lively discussion with all view points - keeping in mind...  
  • Your submission will be reviewed by one of our volunteer moderators. Moderating decisions may be subjective.
  • Please keep the tone of your comment civil and courteous. This is a public forum.
  • Please stay on topic - both in terms of the organization in general and this post in particular.
  • Please refrain from general political statements in (dis)favor of one of the major parties or their representatives.
  • Please take personal conversations off this forum.
  • We will not publish any comments advocating for violent or any illegal action.
  • We cannot connect participants privately - feel free to leave your contact info here. You may want to create a new / free, readily available email address.
  • Please refrain from copying and pasting repetitive and lengthy amounts of text.
  • Please do not post in all Caps.
  • If you wish to link to a serious and relevant media article, legitimate advocacy group or other pertinent web site / document, please provide the full link. No abbreviated / obfuscated links.
  • We suggest to compose lengthy comments in a desktop text editor and copy and paste them into the comment form
  • We will not publish any posts containing any names not mentioned in the original article.
  • Please choose a user name that does not contain links to other web sites
  • Please send any input regarding moderation or other website issues to moderator [at] all4consolaws [dot] org
ACSOL, including but not limited to its board members and agents, does not provide legal advice on this website.  In addition, ACSOL warns that those who provide comments on this website may or may not be legal professionals on whose advice one can reasonably rely.  
 

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

.